Harry’s Place

We should all join the National Secular Society in calling for a full public enquiry. This is one case that is very much in the public eye, but as Cohen suggests there may be more than just this high profile case that needs to be looked in to.

I think the case highlights something more endemic in the attitude with regards to ‘cohesion’ at WMP, and not unlikely in other UK police forces who may be going out of their way to appease the most reactionary and radical of people in their ethnic communities.

The government started this bizarre policy now we are reaping the consequences.

On doubt he’s got a point but that’s a pretty poor bit of writing from Cohen imo. He should make explicit what sort of station he’s talking about, presumably police, and what was wrong with a chief inspector offering to help a family find a girl.

Err no doubt..
Btw anyone see the BBC panorama about trafficing underage prostitutes a few weeks back? The program itsself was pretty clear about which sections of the community most of the perpetrators came from but the programme website is oddly vague.

All of this is a case of Western Civilizations’ “whistling past the graveyard” rather than admitting to the heroic effort needed to gird its loins for the long struggle–and hoping against hope that the Islamic threat posed by the rejuvenated adherents of the original texts will eventually “mellow-out” and go away. Fat chance. Where are the life-boats? WHEN APOLLO 13 was heading back to “life-boat earth” after an on-board explosion a friend said to me: “You know, we down here are just like those Astronauts.” ” How so,” I asked? “Because like them we are also running out of air and water–only WE don’t have any place to go,” he answered. How so truly prophetic in so many ways!

If not enough people stand up for the values of Western Civilization now, when the numbers are not yet against us,
what will happen later when they are–as demographic projections show will happen if present trends are unchecked.
Where will we find the life-boats then?

If not enough people stand up for the values of Western Civilization now

I prefer universal values myself.

Yes Neil, but whose universal values are we talking about Neil?

The CPS has pulled off an encore: it have reportedly advised City of London police that protest signs saying “Scientology is a cult” are illegal.

and what was wrong with a chief inspector offering to help a family find a girl.

If she is a minor, then I would indeed consider it unsurprising (and, even, if she weren’t). However, I would expect it to be a police service and not a personal favour from the CI as that would suggest procedures were being bypassed. If, however, there were a past history of domestic abuse (as the involvement of a women’s refuge suggests) and, especially, considering the matter of forced marriages and family murders (aka ‘honour killings’), it should be clear what the concern is.

“I prefer universal values myself.”

Me too. Except they only seemed to survive under within Western Civilization. Maybe they are not universal. They may be –gasp — my peculiar cultural inheritance.

My point is that it’s Cohen’s job as journalist to tell us what’s wrong with the detective’s behaviour in that instance, not our job as members of the public to use our powers of supposition to work out what he’s trying to tell us.

Cohen’s job as a newspaper journalist is to write a certain number of words which will fit (more or less) a finite amount of space and hopefully inform and stimulate the readers in so doing. Remember he’s not writing for the web and can’t go into every detail. Given that most broadsheets like to assume their readers have a certain level of intelligence and understanding it seems fair enough to make some points implicitly.

I think given the context, (especially the words ‘track down’ which strongly imply finding someone who doesn’t want to be found) it seems reasonably clear why this police officer’s actions might give cause for concern.

And while I’m at it can anyone give an example of a pseudo left council? RESPECT have councillors but afaik never controlled any councils.

Considering that Cohen stated clearly that he was referring to honour killings and beatings, it should be fairly clear why helping a family track down a girl, when the family’s goal is to beat or murder her, is not exactly a job for the police.

I found Cohen’s statement crystal clear. Maybe you have to be female.

And I don’t think the phrase ‘pseudo left’ has gained enough currency to be used without explanation in a general newspaper article. It’s still a piece of jargon even though everyone at hp will presumably know what he means.

The point NC ..”might have” is the collapse of the WMP and CPS case.

Next, we can assume that it ain’t a bus station. We know the name of the refuge, and the relevnce is that it’s also WMP. The circumspect tone is likely with libel in mind (the irony!).

If you’re complaining about pedestrian prose, you’re in the wrong place (a blog). As Bill says, journalism ain’t academic writing.

Jon, address one point at a time.

Nick Cohen is right about West Midlands Police. Time for Anil Patani to resign, or at cough up the compensation charge himself from his salary.

Meanwhile the preachers in the video continue to spread their message. Here is one of the featured holy men ‘Imam’ Bilal Phillips explaining in his defence why puberty should be the age of sexual consent, even for girls of 9.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_ZqeR27Mg

Why can’t you get the printing right? I am a fan of this blog but I’ll have tio give up reading it if the printing keeps going haywire.

Watching this is truly cringeworthy, the police just don’t know what to do.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=61c_1210804020

Can anyone with a legal training explain to me how Bethan David of the CPS, could come to the conclusion after reviewing 56 hours of footage, that the programme had distorted the Muslim preachers speeches, and should be referred to Offcom, when it seems it hadn’t done so at all?

Did Patani actually view all the footage - does he even speak Arabic (some of it was in Arabic) or did he just make a knee jerk protest? Did David just parrot what Patani said? And if so, how can the CPS justify its stance? Isn’t it supposed to consider the facts from a legal standpoint or is it in fact empowered to make value judgements when deciding what action to take?

I am surprised there is not more mention of the CPS’s role in the papers, it is almost as if a media blackout has descended. I agree with the National Secular Society, we need an enquiry into this. After all the police refer cases to the CPS and the CPS decides if there is a case to answer, don’t they? What happened here?

“Why can’t you get the printing right? I am a fan of this blog but I’ll have tio give up reading it if the printing keeps going haywire.”

What do you mean?

sigh, when will the barbaric cultural practices of some immigrating races end?

It is truly sickening how women are treated at the hands of some of these cultures. I’d like to see the entire western world rise up and implement laws that allow authorities to raid homes doing such practices so the lot can be thrown in jail without a key.

Perhaps the Universal Values should also define the behaviour expected of a religion and what is not acceptable. I often wonder what would happen to the Aztec religion was still be practiced and if the followers came to Europe and started practicing, of course they can carry out human sacriface, its their religion and they have freedom of religion. I can just imagine being banged up for complaining about my son having his hear cut out as I was being xenophobic etc., surreal yes, but in truth not far off what is happening now I think…

Damn Keyboard, lets try again:

Perhaps the Universal Values should also define the behaviour expected of a religion and what is not acceptable.

I often wonder what would happen to the Aztec religion if it was still being practiced and if the followers came to Europe and started practicing here, I can just imagine it now, of course they can carry out human sacriface, its their religion and they have freedom of religion.

I can just imagine being banged up for complaining about my son having his heart cut out, as I was being xenophobic, racist etc., surreal yes, but in truth not far off what is happening now I think…

sigh, when will the barbaric cultural practices of some immigrating races end?

A rather silly (to be generous) comment. Cohen makes the point that members of these “immigrating races” are among those who most firmly and bravely oppose these practices.

Who the fuck are “immigrating races”?

That’ll be code for anyone he doesn’t like, because he is an unthinking dim tosser.

“Perhaps the Universal Values should also define the behaviour expected of a religion and what is not acceptable.”

Perhaps the phrase “universal values” is an empty one. A chimera with no histrorical, sociological, or ethical reality.

Fine with me. I know my values are rooted in Western civilization. They may not be universal, but they are pretty darn good. Superior, even.

As long as they don’t cause environmental calamities, who cares, Sunny?

In truth, there is a point to be made i.e. just what values do we stand up for in the West? It’s not all that clear what we do believe in. I myself support values and rules that apply to everyone, no ifs or buts. The problem is deciding just what those values and rules are. In a multicultural society confusion is weakness. There’s no point in being just ‘nice’ to other people’s cultures. Thinking caps on please…

“In a multicultural society confusion is weakness.”

There is no such thing a multicultural society. There are tolerant societies, open societies. The use of the idiot word ‘multicultural” is a sign of confusion and weakness.

Gene: I’m speaking to what some do as traditional practicies, not the Cohen article itself.

Does HP expect only comments on the topic postings or is the central committee a little more flexible on free speech?

Sunny: could you be anymore rude?

Check the pwned thread, BC. You could pick up a few tips.

“There is no such thing a multicultural society. There are tolerant societies, open societies. The use of the idiot word ‘multicultural” is a sign of confusion and weakness.”

o.k. so the entire nation of Canada that calls itself a “multicultural society” is weak and confused?

Quite a sweeping judgement.

Alex, blow me

Ok mesquito, maybe ‘multicultural society’ is a rather lousy term but it’s very commonly used. There’s always a ‘host’ society in the background. The problem is just what does the ‘host’ society stand for? In Britain we’re not entirely sure what the answer to that question is… Hence the ‘thinking caps’

What about a mettaculture?

“o.k. so the entire nation of Canada that calls itself a “multicultural society” is weak and confused?”

Well, yes. They can’t seem to decide between the fundamental rights of free speech and the the hurt feelings of Muslims. I’d say that Canada is a confused and weakened Western society that fllatters itself with the name “multicultural.”

As someone once said, “Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.” But liberty is hardly a “multicultural value,” so in Canada liberty loses.

A mettaculture? Keep dreaming. Not in this day and age.

mesquito, do you actually know anything about Canada? Have you ever been here?

I got drunk in Fort Frances once.

From what Johnny UK says, Britian doesn’t know its arse from its elbow on multicultural society either.

Ah yes, drunk in Fort Frances. That makes you an expert on Canada then, eh?

To answer baffling contrarian, has Canada (great country tho’ it is) produced many inspiring, revolutionary thinkers or ideas lately? I think Revolutionary France and America offer greater examples of how universal values and beliefs can inspire and guide whole generations and nations. And I’m thinking EXAMPLES not blueprints.

o.k. so the entire nation of Canada that calls itself a “multicultural society” is weak and confused?

Yes, that would be a fairly accurate description.

And I’ve read a lot of Farley Mowat books.

Tell me: In Canada, are writers subject to penalty by quasi-judicial courts (Human Rights Comissions) for opinions they publish? Is truth a defense in these “courts”? What sanctions may these “courts” impose, besides fines and awards? Why do many, including Noam Chomsky (of all people), consider these a threat to free expression?

I concede I know precious little about our Fine Neighbor To The North. Can you straighten me out?

has Canada (great country tho’ it is) produced many inspiring, revolutionary thinkers or ideas lately?

I rather like Leonard Cohen.

And Marshall McLuhan was a sort of a poseur-revolutionary.

“The problem is just what does the ‘host’ society stand for? In Britain we’re not entirely sure what the answer to that question is… Hence the ‘thinking caps’”

Well, it ought to stand for journalists in court only to defend themselves from libel or to protecting sources, etc. When cops initiate a criminal rather than civil cases against journos you might have a problem.

Ok, let’s try this- we never had a modern revolution in this country. One which established universal values and beliefs that everyone could aspire to and believe in. Maybe that’s one reason why we’re so uncomfortable and fearful of religious extremism in our midst. So it’s easier for us to ‘accomodate’ these arcane beliefs rather than confidently tackling them head on. My tuppence worth for the night…

Farley Mowat teaches you a lot about the connection to nature in this country, but that’s about it.

Publication of opinion in Canada has to be based on provable facts. It is left to the editorial pages where it is clear it is an opinion. Journalists/writers cannot put opinion in their newspieces unless they want to get into trouble.

Penalites for writers is a civil matter here. It usually happens when writers are sued for defamation. It is dealt with in the civil courts. They are not subject to penalty by commissions that I’m aware of.

There are 5 defences a journalist/writer can use in Canada in a defamation suit: Truth, consent, absolute privilege, qualified privilege, and fair comment.

Truth: a story is written based on provable facts

Consent: the subject has agreed to have a matter brought up in an interview so it can be aired in a public forum

Absolute privilege: journalists can report on anything said on the floor of the Parliament

Qualified privilege: when greater harm would come from the restriction of free speech than from the damages suffered by the plaintiff.

Fair Comment: an opinion based on provable facts. Has to be shown it was written or said without malicious intent.

Sanctions by the civil court in defamation cases with journalists in Canada is usually a monetary award going to the plaintiff.

Since we don’t have quasi-judicial commissions here to try writers, you’ll have to ask Noam Chomsky what he meant.

Common sense tells me that anything that threatens to muzzle good journalism is a threat to the unfettered access to information by the public, free speech, and the very foundations of democracy itself in hold authority accountable for its actions.

The irony is the U.S. has stronger press freedoms than Canada that we journalists would love to have here. But the pussies that run the networks in the U.S. are afraid to exercise real, hardcore investigative journalism for fear of upsetting their corporate/political agenda.

Straighten you out? Nope. You have to do that for yourself. Make an effort. Read a book about Canada, research it on the internet, or come here and visit for a period of time.

“just what values do we stand up for in the West?”

Tell us what values people in ‘the west’ should stand up for.

“I myself support values and rules that apply to everyone, no ifs or buts.”

Surely the beauty of being in an open society is that people are allowed to believe in and follow different lifestyles providing they follow the same law. You know, liberalism and freedom of thought and action, and all that.

The rules aren’t always applied the same anyway. Richer people have it easier than poorer, the more famous get away with things more lightly than unknowns, black boys get harsher sentences for crimes than middle-class white girls. Corporate crime is less harsher than petty crime. etc etc…

I don’t think many of you have considered the contradiction in your thinking that a multi-cultural and multi-racial society WILL have diversity in thought and action (within the law).

So unless you define what exactly those values are, that you want people to adhere to, this discussion will go round in circles.

LOL Shmuel, yeah Marshall McLuhan was just a schmuck, eh? That’s why he’s so oft quoted and referred to by so many.

Bugger off you twat.

“Since we don’t have quasi-judicial commissions here to try writers, you’ll have to ask Noam Chomsky what he meant.”

Why are Ezra Levant (writer, publisher), Mark Steyn (columnist), and Bruce MacKinnon being called before Human Rights Commissions?

And what the hell is this all about?

By JOHN GILLIS Staff Reporter
Fri. May 9 - 1:36 PM

Police are investigating an allegation that an editorial cartoon in The Chronicle Herald promoted hatred.

The cartoon by award-winning Herald staff cartoonist Bruce MacKinnon appeared on April 18 and depicted Cheryfa MacAulay Jamal, a former Nova Scotia woman now living in Ontario. She had told the Herald that she would seek millions of dollars in compensation from the federal government after terrorism-related charges against her husband, Qayyum Abdul Jamal, were stayed.

“The irony is the U.S. has stronger press freedoms than Canada that we journalists would love to have here.”

No kidding.

“I think Revolutionary France and America offer greater examples of how universal values and beliefs can inspire and guide whole generations and nations. And I’m thinking EXAMPLES not blueprints.”

Well Johnny UK, yes, revolutionary France and America are inspiring examples. But that was then and it sure ain’t the case today, given America’s presence in Iraq and France’s stale global position under le petit Napolean M. Sarcozy. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

The American Declaration of Indpendence is often referred to as a “breathing document” that, although over 200 years old, still stands up to governance in the country today (even though it has been badly mauled by Bush’s post 9/11 security laws)

But really, if you’re looking for a revolution in this day and age, good luck. You’re fighting against apathy, materialism, computer games, sleazy pop culture, and a general preoccupation with survival. Who has time to foment revolution when the rent needs to be paid?

Some of Canada’s modern revolutionary ideas include peacekeeping, the global ban on landmines, decommissioning the weapons of the IRA, acknowledging Quebec as a country within Canada, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms that effectively freed Canada from the British North America Act without a shot being fired. I could go on.

Many within and without Canada don’t get it. The thing that makes us “revolutionary” is we would rather settle disputes through diplomacy; talking until we’re blue in the face.

As soon as the next election comes, we are going to get rid of our American lapdog PM Stephen Harper because he is not abiding by the diplomatic way Canadians prefer. He was elected because he passed himself off as a believer in diplomacy. It’s what attracted frustrated Liberals to vote for the Conservative party. But once in power, he just started toeing the U.S. line. He needs to go.

From the British Columbia Human Rights code:

39 (1) If an order is made under section 37 (2) (a), (c) or (d) or (4) or 38 (2), the party in whose favour the order is made or a person designated in the order may file a certified copy of the order with the Supreme Court.

(2) An order filed under subsection (1) has the same force and effect, and all proceedings may be taken on it, as if it were a judgment of the Supreme Court.

Now, if the quasi- (kangaroo) court decides that Baffling Contrarian may no longer in its jurisdiction write about, oh, Sri Lankans, it has, as far as i can tell, become the supreme law of the Dominion that he may not do so.

Mesquito,

If the U.S. has stronger press freedoms then why aren’t they being exercised by the mainstream media? Why does the corporate agenda have such a stranglehold on it and why do the American people allow it?

“Many within and without Canada don’t get it. The thing that makes us “revolutionary” is we would rather settle disputes through diplomacy; talking until we’re blue in the face.

As soon as the next election comes, we are going to get rid of our American lapdog PM Stephen Harper because he is not abiding by the diplomatic way Canadians prefer.”

Damn voters. Don’t they realize they are Canadians?

“If the U.S. has stronger press freedoms then why aren’t they being exercised by the mainstream media? Why does the corporate agenda have such a stranglehold on it and why do the American people allow it?”

Please give me one scrap, one bit of information that is available in Canada and not in the U.S. I have problems with the “corporate” media as well (I find them annoyingly statist, elitist and partisan), but we are rich in alternatives. There is no corporate “stranglehold.” There is an alienated and frustrated Left which can’t seem to find any popular support for its nostrums.

“And what the hell is this all about?”

Don’t take that tone with me.

Its the first I’ve heard of it so I’m in the same boat as you when it comes to Levant, Steyn and MacKinnon.

I do know Levant pushes the Jewish agenda, Steyn is a shitdisturber who pushes the envelope for the sake of getting people stirred up, and MacKinnon was probably just trying to put a humorous slant on the situation.

If you want deets look it up. That’s what I’m going to do as I’ve not heard of this dispute. It’s new to me.

Looks like I know something about Canada that you don’t.

“I do know Levant pushes the Jewish agenda, Steyn is a shitdisturber who pushes the envelope for the sake of getting people stirred up, and MacKinnon was probably just trying to put a humorous slant on the situation.”

Let’s grant all that is 100 percent true. Haul them into court for it? Fine them? Ban them from certain topics?

Give me a break. Johnny UK asks a thoughtful historical question and you at once bring it back to Bush, Sarkozy and –this slays me — Harper. You betray a mean, partisan, vulgar outlook.

“has Canada (great country tho’ it is) produced many inspiring, revolutionary thinkers or ideas lately?”

Probably not. But nearly ALL “American” rock stars and film stars are actually Canadian!

Baffling Contrarian, you are obviously woefully uninformed about a major issue in Canadian political and journalistic matters, mesquito knows a lot more than you do about how free speech is being stifled by fiats of the so called Human Rights Tribunals in Canada. For further information I suggest you go to ’steynonline.com’ and ‘ezralevant.com’.

A country where the editor of a magazine is hauled before a court faced with severe punishment for daring to publish the Danish “Mohammed” cartoons and where the oldest magazine and one of its most popular writers are brought before two courts because they published an article a fascistic Islamic mullah objected to is not a country at ease with the concept of press freedom (it would have been three courts but Ontario Human Rights Commission declared they didn’t have authority to try the case but the court nonetheless found the defendants guilty anyway without even hearing the evidence, truly Kafkaesque!).

Such a bizarre form of government sponsored censorship means that Canada cannot claim to be a liberal or free society.

As someone who Mark Steyn quotes occasionally once said “multiculturalism, unlimited immigration, democracy; choose any two”.

“Please give me one scrap, one bit of information that is available in Canada and not in the U.S.”

It’s not about that. The information is there, but not many media outlets are putting it out there so the American people get a truly fair and balanced take on a story. If the both sides of a story were flogged by the nightly news, the U.S. would have been out of Iraq long ago. The people would’ve demanded it.

The corporate agenda of profit by the mainstream media networks and newspapers is crippling good reporting in the U.S. because they don’t want to do anything to alienate advertisers and thus hinder the bottom line.

“…but we are rich in alternatives. There is no corporate “stranglehold.”"

I highly reccommend you read the book “News Flash” by Bonnie Anderson. It’s pretty terrifying what’s happening to news in the U.S.

Once more:

“I do know Levant pushes the Jewish agenda, Steyn is a shitdisturber who pushes the envelope for the sake of getting people stirred up, and MacKinnon was probably just trying to put a humorous slant on the situation.”

Let’s grant all that is 100 percent true. Haul them into court for it? Fine them? Ban them from certain topics?

So what you’re saying BF is Levant is an uppity jewboy and Steyn is probably half Jewish so they have no rights to express their opinions in Canada?

Mr. Flashman, you do not have to be rude. I don’t appreciate your tone.

I’m entitled to my opinion on here. I was honest in saying it was the first I’ve heard of these HR commissions where Levant, Steyn and MacKinnon were concerned.

I have a life and I’m pretty busy. I remember hearing something about it last month, but was in the middle of a pretty stressful time and didn’t followup the details.

“Looks like I know something about Canada that you don’t.”

Well, do you feel better now? It’s not about knowing more than someone else or petty oneupmanship.

“You betray a mean, partisan, vulgar outlook.”

In your eyes perhaps. It is only because my opinion differs from yours.

“It’s not about that. The information is there, but not many media outlets are putting it out there so the American people get a truly fair and balanced take on a story. If the both sides of a story were flogged by the nightly news, the U.S. would have been out of Iraq long ago.”

A fellow in Canada tried to add the actual Danish cartoons to the story to give his readers a sense of what all the ruckus was about. He is now piling up the legal fees, thanks to aggressive Islamists with the assistance of the Canadian State.

I’ll take the U.S media any damn day. I’ll bet most of the shocking info you imagine is being kept from Americans by the “corporate media” is stuff you learned from American publications.

BF, try dropping the prissy “I don’t like your tone” stuff it just makes you look silly.

I wasn’t being remotely rude, you started off the discussion by implying that mesquito didn’t know what he was talking about and by implication that you knew more about Canada and its illiberal institutions than he did, when it is categorically proven by him and by me that in fact he knows a lot more than you do he is entitled to point the fact out to you.

It’s called debate and rebuttal, if you are too delicate for such a thing perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting on a political weblog, flower arranging might be more your thing.

Oooops, I guess you’ll be back on telling me not to be so rude again.

“Once more:

“I do know Levant pushes the Jewish agenda, Steyn is a shitdisturber who pushes the envelope for the sake of getting people stirred up, and MacKinnon was probably just trying to put a humorous slant on the situation.”

Let’s grant all that is 100 percent true. Haul them into court for it? Fine them? Ban them from certain topics?”

Just where in all of this did I say they should be hauled into court, fined or banned for their actions? Where did I say I agreed with HR Commissions giving them a hard time? Where?

Of course I don’t agree that they should be censored as such. But I don’t think it right that they use their public positions as bully pulpits for a Jewish agenda either. I don’t think anyone should use journalism other than as a way to inform the public using information based on facts.

My attitude is what is happening back in Israel and the Muslim Middle East has no business being played out here in Canada. Both the Jews and Muslims for the most part get along in this country. But when one or the other does something as distasteful as publishing cartoons that were involved in causing an international furor just because they can, then that needs to be dealt with.

It’s not about cultural tolerance not being followed, its about being RUDE. Levant’s publishing of those cartoons was a slap in the face to the Muslim community. He knew it would generate controversy but did it anyway. I question his reason for doing it as press freedom. I think he hid behind that as an excuse to stick it to Muslims. There is a difference between free speech and just being downright rude. Levant’s actions were downright rude.

I didn’t even know Steyn was a Jew.

I never said Canada had a perfect system.

We too are struggling with this whole multicultural thing. But to label an entire country weak and confused because of it is irresponsible and ridiculous.

Did it ever occur to you that the use of these HR commissions is a tempest in a teapot that may not even go anywhere? I suspect it is just grasping at straws.

Christ almighty!

So what you are saying is that if something upsets Muslims it shouldn’t be allowed?

Levant may or may not have been using his magazine as a “bully pulpit” for Jews (I don’t think he was) but guess what? He’s entitled to do so, it’s called freedom of the press, free speech, liberty, freedom of expression, they’re fairly old and venerated concepts that used to be popular in formerly free nations like Canada.

Now however it appears the government should have the power to restrict such freedoms at the behest of self appointed, openly fascistic Islamist rabble rousers and instead only allow speech that is approved of by government officials. George Orwell if you were alive today you’d be spinning in your grave, as my dear old Irish grandmother would say, (or is that a racist stereotype? Hold on let’s ask the government thought policemen and if I have transgressed I will publicly admit my guilt in a show trial and instead restrict myself only to saying those things that the government allows).

You just don’t get this whole ‘freedom of expression’ business do you BF?

“…you started off the discussion by implying that mesquito didn’t know what he was talking about…”

Isn’t it nice that mesquito has another boy to stand up for him on the playground.

Of course I know more about Canada, I’m Canadian. But nowhere did I say on here I knew more about its “illiberal institutions.” The topic of HR commissions hadn’t even been brought up at that point. It was only multiculturalism being discussed. At least I admitted I hadn’t heard about the racket involving Levant, Steyn and MacKinnon. If I was truly out to prove I knew more, would I say I didn’t know???

“…it is categorically proven by him and by me that in fact he knows a lot more than you do…”

Then why did you ask me???

“It’s called debate and rebuttal, if you are too delicate for such a thing perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting on a political weblog, flower arranging might be more your thing.

Oooops, I guess you’ll be back on telling me not to be so rude again.”

I don’t mind debate and rebuttal. I am just used to a more respectful tone, that’s all.

But your tone doesn’t really surprise me Mr. flashman given that most who have a differing opinion that doesn’t support the Jewish agenda are verbally flagellated for it.

“Mr. flashman given that most who have a differing opinion that doesn’t support the Jewish agenda are verbally flagellated for it.”

Enough BF, I’m getting a rather unpleasant feeling like I need a shower even debating with you, you seem to have a bit of an unhealthy obsession about the Jews, and people like you tend to give me the creeps.

If you don’t mind I’d like to stay as far away from people who talk about “the Jewish agenda”, I can smell nastiness from such a person from half a mile away.

I’m not Jewish and have no agenda other than my support for free speech.

“So what you are saying is that if something upsets Muslims it shouldn’t be allowed?”

As I stated a few posts up, I don’t think anyone should use journalism other than as a way to inform the public using information based on facts.

I don’t like it when Jews OR MUSLIMS in Canada push an agenda about the strife going on between them back in their homelands.

I am descended from the Irish. Neither me nor my family were involved in pushing the Irish agenda during the years of “the troubles” in Ireland. No one in my family supported the IRA or gave money to it.

Why can’t the Jews and Muslims do that? Just shut up about it. I don’t want to hear it, nor do I care particularly. Sort it out - OVER THERE.

Did it ever occur to you these HR tribunals are a way to keep these agendas, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh or whatever from becoming fullblown in Canada? We don’t want it.

“Levant may or may not have been using his magazine as a “bully pulpit” for Jews (I don’t think he was) but guess what? He’s entitled to do so, it’s called freedom of the press, free speech, liberty, freedom of expression, they’re fairly old and venerated concepts that used to be popular in formerly free nations like Canada.”

Then if he’s going to use the public domain under the guise of journalism to put his stuff out there, then he has to expect some blowback. Not everyone is going to agree nor should they. They are simply exercising their democratic right of free speech in disagreeing.

Using a media publication to push his agenda may work in the short term but it just undermines his journalistic integrity in the eyes of the public. He wonders why he is getting the flack he is getting, well, publish a fair and balanced piece of work instead of a one-sided piece of junk and people might respect him more. He’s only getting what he asked for.

“I’m not Jewish and have no agenda other than my support for free speech.”

Pfft. I never said you were Jewish.

“Enough BF, I’m getting a rather unpleasant feeling like I need a shower even debating with you, you seem to have a bit of an unhealthy obsession about the Jews, and people like you tend to give me the creeps.

If you don’t mind I’d like to stay as far away from people who talk about “the Jewish agenda”, I can smell nastiness from such a person from half a mile away.”

Oh please you pompous ass, get over yourself. You’re no better than I am. You just demonize me because my opinion is different than yours.

You obviously misread my posts because I’ve said in them I don’t like anyone, Muslim or Jew, with agendas.

This all starts out about free speech and the censoring of it by HR commissions but because I’m blunt about what Levant and Steyn are doing, which is pushing back against anyone who disagrees with Jewish actions in the Middle East as free speech, then I’m suddenly creepy.

I’m not for or against Muslims or Jews. I just don’t like it when people use journalism for their own nefarious reasons and lie about it.

And it’s not BF, it’s BC - baffling contrarian, you idiot.

‘I think Revolutionary France and America offer greater examples of how universal values and beliefs can inspire and guide whole generations and nations. And I’m thinking EXAMPLES not blueprints’

The Revolutionary France that presided over a vast and bloody civil war, that invaded neighbouring countries with the promise of liberty ‘on the ends of bayonets’, that executed thousands of dissidents and sought to establish the world’s first example of a modern totalitarian mono-culture. The France that pursued a utopian goal of ‘the virtuous Republic’, a singular society cleansed of dissonant alternatives, such as Christianity, local collective identities, class loyalty.

This heritage of Liberal totalitarianism (should be an oxymoron, isn’t one) lies side by side with its ‘elevating’ legacy of the possibility of human emacipation. Ignored at our peril. Like the earlier Dambusters thread, considering the entirity on a society or a group or an individual is not to cast doubt on their virtues, but give them their deserved clarity and context, so Guy Gibson can be a herioc and incredible brave pilot and a typical product of a society with outdated racist notions. The attack on the