Harry’s Place

If they’re allowing people in to the UK to work on this channel while doing their best to exclude the Iraqi interpreters then I know not what to say.

David T

I agree with your sentiments about the neo-nazis, but there are some other issues. Presumably, as you support free speech, that’s why you are against PressTV being “shut down by Government edict”.

However, you do support various measures that attempt to undermine that, because you judge security takes higher precedent.

But this is where it gets philosophically confused. If security does take precedence, then government edict is justified.

If security takes precedence, then the two measures proposed are probably ineffective anyway. Both have problems. Focusing on the second one, a rather obvious and bizarre situation is created: “foreign nationals” can be deported because they “foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence”, but Brits can carry on regardless.

Indeed, you defend their right to do, saying you don’t want it closed down by government edict. That’s the absurdity.

Good point CB.

Does this thing have an audience? Deep into the nether regions of my satellite system is a channel called Free Speech Television (FSTV), which takes very seriously the ideas of Noam Chomsky and Medea Benjamin. As far as I can tell, nobody is watching.

And is Galloway still Broadcasting on Press TV?
He’s not declared a fee.

And is Galloway still Broadcasting on Press TV?

and is Tory Kamm still appearing on it? and did he get a fee when he did?

I read about Renouf in a Searchlight article (December 2006) concerning a conference put on by Right Now! magazine. Apparently her views on “International Zionism” didn’t go down well; however:

Unperturbed by the rebuff Renouf set out a number of volumes of David Irving’s works on the stall at the side of the room including Nuremberg and Churchill’s War. Inadvertantly she put them on the free literature side of the table, with the result that delegates took a number of books and CDs in the mistaken belief that they were free. [Derek] Turner, who was running the show, later had to announce a product recall in an attempt to recover the pilfered stock.

Johann Hari has an entertaining article about attending a holocaust denying event which Renouf attended - can’t link to it, my work won’t let me read Hari.

Publicising the nature of PressTV so that journalists know that they are participating in a dodgy enterprise if they work for it might be sufficient activity without calling on government intervention.

“Secondly, non-UK nationals who are involved in this station should be deported, and new recruits should be prevented from entering this country.”

This sounds very heavy-handed and unworkable. Would they need to actually be in the country to work for the TV station?

On a related point, I realize that Robert Fisk is considered the next best thing to evil on this site but does anyone know what became of a debate that was reportedly broadcast on PressTV?

“When Iran announced last summer that it was launching a 24-hour television news channel based in London, it was keen to assert that it would be granted full editorial freedom.

On Thursday, that pledge will be tested to destruction when Press TV is due to air a pre-recorded debate on the Middle East featuring the journalists Roger Alton and Robert Fisk.

“During the debate, Fisk described the Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, as a ‘crack-pot’,” discloses my mole at the studio in Ealing. A Press TV spokesman says: “Any censoring is based on Ofcom’s regulation and is nothing political.”"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584057/Sir-Ian-McKellen-becomes-bishop-for-a-day.html

Also, Norman Finkelstein is probably considered the next most evil thing to Robert Fisk, but if PressTV allows him on to lambast the stupidity of Renouf, as he does here, then it may not be such a bad thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YemOW3lVoAI

A station on which rival crackpots can take each other on? Better than pro wrestling!

just waiting for the “anti-imperialists” to tell us that PressTV isn’t really linked up to the neo-Nazis and that it is a plot by the neo-cons in Washington?

it is both interesting and depressing to see how bits of Renouf’s terminology are entering the political mainstream

The de-facto abolition of national borders and national sovereignty has made it virtually impossible to shit down outfits like this.

Satellite T.V. emanting from the arab world, broadcast everywhere and freely available in western countries, is chock-full of anti-semtic nonsense.

The British gov’t is largely impotent. All it can do is chase Press T.V. off of english soil, but it can’t do much to stop the broadcasts or to shut the “network” down.

And then there’s always the Web.

And how does one deal with the people promoting this?

By exposing their lies?

I really doubt that simpletons like ‘Lady Renouf’ and her chums are capable of sound thought, and so attempting to reason with them and their followers is pretty much a lost cause.

Depressing, really.

Okay, we’ve moved from Tony Blair to Hillary Clinton on the HP front page. Politics certainly is show business for ugly people.

“…virtually impossible to shit down outfits like this”

Perhaps a curry and laxative beforehand would help?

Shuttling from Press TV studios to Holocaust “conferences” in Tehran. I wonder whether La Renouf has read Celine.

“…virtually impossible to shit down outfits like this”

Uh…I stand corrected!

…. the “i” IS just beside the “u”

Close, but not quite. :o)

Press TV is a form of “soft diplomacy” by the Iranians. They want to win over people by appearing serious and interesting, like a normal tv station, and want to use that influence to promote their messages - one of which is a support for neo nazis (incidentally I suspect they approach this in a kind of tit for tat way: It is a sort of ‘You allow insults to islam, we will allow this mob to insult judaism’). Surely the easiest way - before suggesting elaborate schemes for deportation etc - of undermining this approach is to show, in public , that they aren’t serious and interesting, they are nasty and nazi-friendly. Happily there are a number of journalists who could do this publicly: Andrew Gilligan & Oliver Kamm could write about it. They would have to admit that their arrogance and greed (for airtime more than money , I suspect) allowed them to get dragged into lending Press TV their reputations, but that’s just tough. (At least Martin Bright agonised before appearing on Press TV, and handed his fee (its £100 for an appearance, presumably a lot more for Gilligan to present a show) to good Iranian causes.) But really this mob should be boycotted and Gilligan should know better. He could make amends by exposing his (hopefully former) employer.

Is Kollerstrom actually a neo-Nazi? As opposed to a complete and utter tit.

Ann On

I do think that would be sensible for Gilligan, whose professional reputation is at stake.

Oliver, by contrast, likes to seek out the worst opponents, to take them on. He enjoys a ruck. I’ve explained elsewhere why I would go on PressTV: but it is very clear why Oliver enjoys taking them on. Ditto, Peter Tatchell.

Alex

Yes, I do think that he is a neo Nazi. Notably, he associates with them, and repeats their arguments. He took advice from Renouf on the likely consequences of giving his Holocaust denial paper in Germany. He associates with neo Nazis.

Of course, he claims to have been a member of RESPECT

“Politics certainly is show business for ugly people.”

Actually the picture of Hillary on the cover of the Hitch’s book about the Clintons is kinda sexy.

Did I say that aloud?

P.

Alternatively, he’s a thick twat. I’m not trying to excuse him - no matter how good the bits look in a cesspit, and all that - but he strikes as not very self-aware and bewitched by his, admittedly, volkish ideas. This idiocy can be more dangerous, as he doesn’t realize what line he’s crossed in pursuit of his ideas.

You’re all a bunch of neo-cons

“Liberty, If it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear”

Tagnuzlsx -

“Liberty, If it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear”

David T -

I do not think that PressTV should be shut down by Government edict. If neo-Nazis want to broadcast their lies, then the State should not stand in their way.

So what is your point?

A tidbit.

http://www1.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0805227218000917.htm

Wonder who the intellectual from the United States is.

Alec - Yeah I’m not sure Kollestrom is a genuine neo nazi… he seems to have a desire to upset the applecart of consensus reality.

There were iirc very similar claims about chemical analysis of masonry stolen from nazi deathcamp ruins proving people weren’t gassed there a few years ago - the guy that time wrote it up on his employers (Max Planck institute) headed paper and lost his job as a result.

Here’s some stuff on Kollerstrom, please follow the links, but remember they lead to some pretty nasty stuff like ”

“The Auschwitz ‘Gas Chamber’ Illusion by Nicholas Kollerstrom, PhD”

yuck!

http://www.blairwatch.co.uk/node/2014

“We’ve occasionally been targeted by 9/11 and 7/7 conspiraloons over our coverage of terrorism and strategies to deal with it. At one level it’s just a small group of deathly boring obsessives, at another it’s something disturbing.

One fact that keeps cropping up is the links between these self-professed truthers and Holocaust deniers and Nazi apologists.

We’ve just found another conspiraloon, Nick Kollerstrom aka astro3, who’s been pestering 7/7 survivors as they offer an inconvenient witness against his ludicrous theories. Although he specialises in that ultimate conspiracy theory, crop circles, he’s not afraid to take a deep bath in Nazi apologism and Holocaust denial:

As surprising as it may sound, the only intentional mass extermination program in the concentration camps of WW2 was targeted at Germans. From April, 1945 five million Germans were rounded up after surrendering, and deliberately starved until well over one million had died

He also likes to submit quotes to White Supremacist sites: According to my teenager’s homework, it seems to be Holocaust week at school again, so all the non-Jewish kids will be learning the Jewish version of it. What do you do when a public institution teaches something is a fact that you believe is not a fact? Well, you can always call the teacher or write a letter, which will have no effect other than to get you a reputation as a dangerous nut. No school will change its policy on this because of any information you cite to them; even if they secretly agree with you, they do not have the courage.

Nick likes to put on his boots and goosestep over history by denying the holocaust and acting as an apologist for Hitler. How does he picture Auschwitz? Death camp? Extermination centre? ”

“A tidbit.

http://www1.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0805227218000917.htm“

“19:53 President Ahmadinejad felicitates Yemen on national day”

Afterwards, Yemen left quietly, leaving some money on the dresser.

P.

Wonder who the intellectual from the United States is.

There may be several, actually.

And those from France?

I don’t understand how universities ( the humanities) have become clearing houses for the dissemination of hatred and lies.

Just how many Kollerstroms are there lurking in western colleges and universities?

And how did such simple people manage to obtain a PHD?

Cor, that Renouf bint is a bit tasty. Why are you kulak two-legged pieces of dog shit not shagging her? I would! Because I’m a chopper and no mistake.

Afterwards, Yemen left quietly, leaving some money on the dresser.

I bet he would have preferred Jordan.

Afterwards, Yemen left quietly, leaving some money on the dresser.

Ha! Missed that one.

Jordan yes, but only if she let Yemen watch. I’m a chopper.

I had the unpleasant experience to meet a portuguese muslim shiah convert (who happened to originally belong to an upper class family)…

This person presented himself as an iconoclast, and then “subtly” using a fake idea of tolerance promoted nazism through several means.

He was a neo-nazi muslim shiah convert funded by Teheran. There are several signs that teheran is generously funding neo-nazis in Portugal. Those signs have been there for quite a while, but despite that the authorities pretended to ignore them until the day a TV program showed one of their leaders (a murderer who killed a black man and was involved in the killing of a extreme-left wing activist in the 80’s) proudly showing the reporter his shotgun and declaring that they had weapons distributed among 50 000 “patriots”.

Only when the neo-nazis, feeling a complete sense of impunity, tried to organize a mega-rally of european neo-nazis in Portugal the authorities did something about that.

But the links with Iran are still a taboo that the state prefers to ignore.

That’s shocking.

Where can we read more about this Sarah?

I had the unpleasant experience to meet a portuguese muslim shiah convert

That’s a surprise. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a Shia convert, all Sunni of some flavour.

(who happened to originally belong to an upper class family)

But that ain’t a surprise!

He was a neo-nazi muslim shiah convert funded by Teheran. There are several signs that teheran is generously funding neo-nazis in Portugal.

That is disturbing. My brief impression of Muslims in our oldest ally was that they predominately hailed from the softer, quietist Mozambiquer Sufis (including a principle Iman, as opposed to ’spokesman’ such as Bungie-thingie here in the UK, whom I was told was speaking fluent Portuguese. In fact, there was greater concern expressed for animist sacrifices in the forests.

a black man

Another impression was the preponderance of African faces, as opposed to SE Asian or, even, Chinese faces here in Edinburgh.

You can’t, because it isn’t written.

The issue is even worse.

In the 80’s a left wing party was created with the backstage support of the then president of the republic, this party benefited from high dissatisfaction with the unpopular measures the government lead by the socialist party had to take to save the country from bankrupcy.

after having had very good results in the first elections they fought, this party started shrinking further and further ntil it almost disappeared. By then, neo-nazis started infiltrating the party, and then one day they got the majority and took over the party.

what started as a moderate left wing party is now a nationalist party. they don’t get even 1% of the votes, but the issue is that nationalist and fascist parties are forbidden by the constitution.

but in Portugal moderate people are dominated by a fake idea of tolerance and they have big difficulty in understanding that there is no possible tolerance to intolerance, and that hate speech is not covered by the right to free speech but rather abuses it.

so nobody dared take action and ilegalize this party, just like nobody questioned the irresponsibility of those moderates that created a party because they let themselves be manipulated by a president that wanted to destroy his enemy, the leader of the socialist party.

the existence of neo-nazis suits the needs of the conservative sectors, who can thus portray themselves as moderate people while at the same time indulging in a pacient labour to falsify history and rehabilitate the fascist regime (which they claim was not fascist).

it suits the communists and the extreme left, because they love to have enemies,

and it shouldn’t suit moderate socialists and social democrats, but it is so much easier to ignore these problems,

and besides most politicians have no sense of what the real country is, because they live comfortably, they don’t live in suburbs, they don’t use public transports, their children study in private schools, and after they graduate their parents find them nice jobs.

so when extremists appear and make a campaign against immigrants, this provides the moderates to say: hey, let’s unite, let’s defend democracy and tolerance etc and make some public statement that will make us look nice decent people. but if you ask them why don’t they illegalize these people because racism is a criminal offense, they answer that democracy has to learn to live with different perspectives.

PressTV also broadcasts out of Washington, D.C. Workers World Party Stalinist honcho Brian Becker hosts a TV show of theirs, occasionally.
http://www.presstv.com/pop/wmp.aspx?id=47392
Wall Street Czars depopulating the World, ”
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=28469&sectionid=3510302
w/quotes from Leuren Moret, a popular speaker on Depleted Uranium who makes outlandish claims. >…Q. What are the human costs of the depleted uranium?

A. We are facing a global mass extinction of 2-4 billion people, and a war against the genetic future of all species.

If the Bush Administration and the US Navy are really stupid enough to bomb Iran with their [nuclear] friend Israel, well then they deserve what they get if they knock over that beehive. Iran is not Iraq… Iraq was a ‘cakewalk’ compared to what a mess they will have with Iran.

I want the people of Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and the people of the world to know that I love and respect them. Americans are not bad people, I am not a bad person because I am American, it is our government that has hijacked and stolen our country and our soul from us.

But this nightmare they are creating is not over yet, and like Iraq, it will not turn out the way they think it is going to… Bush is not the only sociopath in power who likes to blow things up. Other countries may retaliate…

And there are many ways to punish the Zionist Anglo-American economic empire. Its future is fading…. You never create wealth by destroying things.

I want the people of Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and the people of the world to know that I love and respect them. Americans are not bad people, I am not a bad person because I am American, it is our government that has hijacked and stolen our country and our soul from us.

What, no Somalis or Palestinians? You racist, you.

Is Kollerstrom actually a neo-Nazi?

He of the elegant swimming pool at Auschwitz?

At best, he’s an accidental or de facto neo-nazi.

He out-Irving’d David Irving.

Elegant swimming pool?

Sorry Sarah, we’re going to need some evidence. You haven’t used any names - not of people or parties.

I think Sarah would be wise not to open herself to attack from fascists by readily giving out such details freely on the web

what I wrote is no secret in Portugal.

why should I give more details?

I don’t see why David T thinks its ok for Oliver Kamm & Peter Tatchell to go on Press TV, but not anyone else: Firstly, the same rules should apply to everyone. Secondly, Press TV’s game is to make vile opinions “respectable”. Kamm and Tatchell are helping them. Press TV can say “look, we have all shades of opinion, from Kamm and Tatchell to Renouf & Kollerstrom” - thereby slipping these nazis into the mainstream. They can only do this if useful idiots like Kamm and Tatchell (and many more) help out. If they all refuse to go on Press TV shows, the channel is reduced to Iranians pumping out their own propaganda with a few nazi add-ons, revealing both to be fringe crazy people. I can see that , in their arrogance and foolishness, Kamm and Tatchell think they are “taking on” the enemy, but actually they are helping them.

Sarah, Modernity’s point was that may be at risk of intimidation from far-right heavies. Herman’s point was that we need more information, it has been “written” by you for a start. You mentioned a left-wing party from the 1980s, but declined to name it. If this is “no secret in Portugal”, can we have names? Jose Saramago for a start.

Sarah, Modernity’s point was that may be at risk of intimidation from far-right heavies. Herman’s point was that we need more information, it has been “written” by you for a start. You mentioned a left-wing party from the 1980s, but declined to name it. If this is “no secret in Portugal”, can we have names? Jose Saramago for a start.

Where’s Tim Worstall?

“I don’t see why David T thinks its ok for Oliver Kamm & Peter Tatchell to go on Press TV, but not anyone else”

Maybe, David T has already answered this:

“A station on which rival crackpots can take each other on? Better than pro wrestling!”

What’s she doing with Stan Laurel in the picture? I thought he was dead.

Looks more like Clint Eastwood.

Alec, I understood about the possibility of intimidation, but I dealt with that when I had too quite well.

I will not give the name of the neo-nazi muslim convert because he doesn’t deserve free publicity, that’s just it.

he constantly opens new blogs with different names and then closes them some time latter but in real life he does not assume its political and religious affiliation and presents himself as a conservative democrat.

Portugal’s political parties:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Portugal

After the revolution, the communist party tried to control the country, but was defeated in the first free elections, won by the socialist party.

this country is ruled either by the socialist party, now in power, or by the social democratic party, which, despite the name is a centre-right wing party.

in 1985, another moderate left wing party was created: the Democratic renovation party. its members were decent citizens who were naivelly manipulated by the then president, the general antonio ramalho eanes, who hated the socialists and their leader mario soares and wanted to destroy them.

As it happened that the socialist government had had to impose draconian measures in order to enter the then EEC (now EU) and apply an austerity plan imposed by the IMF, part of their traditional voters, who would never in their life vote for the communist neither for the social-democrats, found in this new party a way to express their discontentment.

the then president pretended to be a moderate left winger, because in those days it was not very recommendable to be right wing if one wanted to win elections…

nowadays his connections with OPUS DAY are established.

after he achieved in humiliating the socialists, he did not respond to the expectatives that he had given to the militants of this new party, and the voter also understood what had happened.

so the party started shrinking and shrinking, and instead of dissolving the party its remaining members uncausciously let new members join without checking who they were.

now this party is called National renovation party, and the mere use of a fascio as its symbol would be enough to illegalize it. in spain parties connected to ETA were illegalized, but in Portugal people with political responsibilities prefer to ignore it.

thankfully, the people, despite its lack of civic culture and poor education levels, is wiser that the political and cultural elites and this party doesn’t get even 1% of votes that would allow them to get public funding.

sociologically, most portuguese voters tend to assume moderate left positions.

all of this is information that is available.

however, nobody cares about smaller periferical countries except when there is blood flowing.

Sarah,

is this, the party?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Renewal_Party

yes.

take a look at this:

http://devaneiosdesintericos.blogspot.com/2007/03/lgica-do-dio.html

and then this:

http://devaneiosdesintericos.blogspot.com/2007/04/nacionalismo-parvoce.html

compare the photos!

in fact to use xenophobia to stirr nationalism in portugal is impossible, because the immigrants are not dumb, and as unemployement is rising, both the portuguese and the foreign residents are leaving the country to find work elsewhere.

parvoíce means a mixture of stupidity and silliness.

“non-UK nationals who are involved in this station should be deported”

ROFL. What a hypocritical disgrace.

What you’re trying to do is ban speech that you disagree with. The problem is whether you ban it or allow it, it will be said. So you might want to take your head out of the sand.

I found the coverage of the “kidnapped” sailors a disgrace on numerous Western Wire services. According to the Western Media, there’s no way the Marines could’ve sailed into Iranian waters… The same can be said for those expertly guided missiles dropped on Afghanistan and Iraq daily… Its a point lost on many that the BBC world service is funded by the Foreign office… It ditched its Romanian service to launch an Iranian one, no doubt with a wiked smile on its face knowing those working for it wont be allowed back into the country for safety. We forget the biased coverage of embedded troops during conflicts that report FACT?!?!?! The non questioning of politicians in a build up to the second Iraq war. The which hunt by the government to destroy a credible story.
Media is driven by Ideology… Look at fox, which incidentally now has a journalist in Tehran. Just here and the BBC man… Just a few observations. Can the same not be said of fox… and before a british journalist starts shouting from the rooftops about impartiality, Why oh why is the country down on the Press Freedom index, 24th to be precise One ahead of Mauritius, and behind Slovenia and Lithuania… Curious that. . Look at the recent coverage of the Financial markets… the same ones that Reuters Thompson is floated on and the short sighted Saviour Gordon Brown reporting before the markets plunged again. Yes, Press TV doesn’t do itself many favours but neither does the western media and the better than thou attitude it pontificates.

And Harry, You really should no better than source material from Wikki… You can get fired for using it at UK news organisations…