Harry’s Place

My thoughts on anything except the significance of this case can be found here. I will repeat them in this thread as well.

Do I detect some face saving in the wording of this decision?

Is there anything more dispiriting than a court that would stoop to make even a gesture toward saving face?

Another lie unmasked.

I wonder whether ant of this will be rethought

Enderlin’s statement that the IDF had killed the boy was widely accepted as fact in the Islamic world and his death became a symbol of opposition to Israel. Egypt and Tunisia issued postage stamps depicting him as a martyr.[4] Egypt re-named the street on which the Israeli embassy is located in his honor.[4][21] The Palestinian Authority gave the same name to a street in Jericho; Saddam Hussein similarly named a main thoroughfare in Baghdad “Martyr Mohammed al-Dura Street”; and Morocco created an al-Dura Park.[22] The Iranian Ministry of Education developed a website to commemorate him,[23] and the Iranian foreign ministry suggested renaming a street in Tehran in his honor.[24] Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, Crown Prince of Dubai, composed a poem in his honour.[25]

On October 7, 2001, Osama bin Laden warned President George W. Bush that he “must not forget the image of Mohammed al-Dura and his fellow Muslims in Palestine and Iraq. If he has forgotten, then we will not forget, God willing.”[22] In May 2004, the Kuwaiti investment company Global Investment House created the “Al-Durra Islamic Fund” with the investment objective of seeking “capital growth through investing in Sharia’a-compliant local shares.”[26]

Surprisingly the British Press hasn’t picked up on the story,although punters may be pleased to know that

The second best performing fund was Global Al-Durra Islamic, which gained 20.54% over the three months, with volatility at the average level of 18.50%. At the end of March 2008 the fund was exposed over 77% to the financial sector, in line with the Islamic Shari’ah.

Enderlin just keeps lying and lying. He’s like Dan Rather.

Enderlin said “the appeals court ruled that Karsenty’s words were, in fact, libelous, and that Karsenty failed to prove that the news was staged and/or false.” … but “the court believed Karsenty had the right to stridently criticize the [France 2] report, since it dealt with an emotional topic, and that Karsenty’s investigation into the matter convinced the court he was being sincere.”

Cue Conor Foley coming along and telling us that, just like the Qana Ambulance fake, without a single shred of evidence, that Israel was responisble for everything by default.

This is OT, but there’s more media scumbaggery here:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/martin_jacques/2008/05/myopia_on_myanmar.html#comment-1367138

Martin Jacques seems - in this respect - to have done on CiF what Neil Clark did with his Iraqi interpreters post, which is to unite all the readers … against him.

Ah yes, Jacques is developing ‘form’ in that regard.

Witness his CiF piece arguing that the BBC sacking Ian Wright was ‘cultural apartheid.’

460 comments.

99% negative.

Is Sunny Hundal on MJ’s case?

Is the little boy dead or not? If not dead, where is he hiding?

Gaza, Sue. It’s a highly populated unmanaged place.

“Gaza, Sue. It’s a highly populated unmanaged place” For which, read: uncivilised (if not sub-human) Arabs can’t even manage their own city. A small Arab child has no friends or family, he’s barely human is he - just an image on TV. Not like your own precious off-spring.

You got me banged to rights, Boyo. I think the same about Haiti and Nairobi, and British slums of yesteryear. Wait a mo’… I don’t. Please stab yourself.

Transparent straw man boyo.

But you should tell us how well Hamas is managing Gaza. Ok?
Is the budget for rockets voted by the city council?

let’s not forget:

“The head of the Palestinian Authority’s gas agency confirmed Tuesday that Hamas gunmen had raided the Palestinian side of the Nahal Oz fuel terminal, stealing at least 60,000 liters of fuel meant for the Gaza power station in order to fill their own vehicles. ”

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1208870521477&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

I see a similar thing occurs on this site as it does on others I frequent.

Criticism of Israel and the usual suspects erupt out of the woodwork, if its not Israel at fault…… then curiously they all go absent.

Must just be a coincidence…….

Alec et al - don’t really care, it’s all been trolled before. Only sometimes the sociopathy of HP becomes overwhelming.

It seems that the ruling is that Karsenty had the right to make the accusation against France 2, but not that the court finds it is correct that the footage was staged. So, this is basically an inconclusive result as to what actually happened to al Dura. Maybe this will be clearer if the ruling is released, which it currently hasn’t been.

Anyway, this ruling has no bearing at all on the wider issue of children being killed in this conflict, which happens frequently.

Hilarious, Boyo. The footage of what became one of the rallying calls for the Second Intifada has been declared to have been false, and you blank it out. By your own admission, you are not willing to listen to any contradictory evidence in pursuit of your desire to pursue a political narrative which results in more [of other people’s blood] and, of course, a plaintive whine about a web-page which repulses you so much that you keep visiting.

What were you saying about sociopathy?

Whatever I may, or may not, have said, I didn’t say “please stab yourself”.

Anyway, this ruling has no bearing at all on the wider issue of children being killed in this conflict, which happens frequently.

So why do we need one with verifiable false information?

Oh, who’s getting prissy and uptight? After calling me an anti-Arab racist who considers their children to be semi-savages unworthy of sympathy, you get all upset at a palpably absurd image.

Have not seen anything about this in the American Media, either newspapers or tv, online, broadcast or print. Do not expect to, either for the most part, since as far as the politically correct media, i.e. most everything outside of Fox (faux) News, the Wall Street Journal & the New York Sun, etec., this would be too embarassing to admit and would be too big a blow to their slanted anti-Israeli coverage.

Urgent clarification: I don’t know who this “Boyo” is, but I’m the only Boyo around here, boyo. Innit.

Get your own crypto-literary monicker. You, like most of Wales, are a disgrace to Wales.

Oh, I knew it wasn’t you, NGB. You’re the only boyo in this village.

Heh. Fair enuff.

“The footage of what became one of the rallying calls for the Second Intifada has been declared to have been false.”
Stills from the footage were also put to good use, eg/ The Independent published on its front pages one pernicious image, on a near-daily basis, for more than a month.

“Anyway, this ruling has no bearing at all on the wider issue of children being killed in this conflict, which happens frequently.”

The wider issue, you stupid hypocrite, is that terrorist organisations are getting away with murder and undermining peace efforts in part because there exists significant public perception that their murderous actions are justified because Israel is committing atrocities. Which, as this case is yet another example of, isn’t the case.

If the full facts of Israel’s, Hamas’s and all the other players’ rules of engagment were fully known, then the Palestinian terrorists would have far less global support. They know it, you know it, we all know it.

I wonder how events like this will be viewed historically?

In the present the truth surrounding these events is irrelevant. THe images of that little kid clutching his father in the middle of a firefight are reality. Nobody wants to hear that those images of vulnerability and tragedy might have been staged. Even the IDF has never bothered to vigourously deny the reports - because in this conflict kids are always getting caught in the crossfire.

Even if it’s fake, it could’ve been true. France 2 never accused the IDF of deliberately murdering the Al-Dura’s. That was simply the assumption made by those already conditioned to equate Israel with Apartheid. The IDF accepted they might have been caught in crossfire; investigated and when they concluded that it seemed unlikely that the Al-Dura’s had been killed by IDF bullets - no one cared anymore.

Because the IDF has killed kids before. And will again. And members of the IDF have murdered palestinian kids before. And will again.

The fact that most of these kids have been killed because they’re forced to be the front-line of the Intifada or because Hamas/Islamic Jihad militias deliberately stage attacks from schools and playgrounds - has long since ceased to be an issue for the targets of such virulent anti-Israel propaganda.

For TheIrie, Palestinian society is so debased by Israeli occupation that hiding amongst school-children and firing rockets into Sderot is to be expected and excused. As is State media and education which indoctrinates martyrdom and hatred of jews from the age of two.

But such contempt for human beings - for children - might be seen as racist so it’s important that TheIrie convince himself that Israel is so utterly evil that his low opinion of what palestinian children deserve is justified.

And this is where the al-Dura stuff serves its purpose. It allows people to believe that the IDF, and therefore Israel, is an evil that would murder every palestinian child without conscience.

Works too. We Are All Hezbollah? Hamas the heroes?

Let me guess Greg - there is some huge conspiracy not letting the real facts out.

Hmmm - sounds familiar.

Hmmm - sounds familiar.

Are you talking about Nicholas Parsons being able to hide his real age?

Phomsey, it’s been obvious all along, to anyone who paid close attention, that the Palestinians love to use children as cannon fodder for propaganda. And I mean “use” in every sense. Both putting them in danger on purpose and faking stories and misattributing causes.

It’s not really a secret among Arabs. Too many people participate - they’re not offended that they’re lying to each other - they’re agreeing that hatred must be encouraged… Their certainty of the rightness of hatred is absolute. They lack the uncertainty that would give honesty a purpose.

It’s the stupidity of hatred. People really are stupid in the throws of that emotion. Evil even.

“there is some huge conspiracy”

Conspiracy? Who mentioned that? The facts are there for anyone who wants to find them. It’s just that most folks believe what they read in the paper and see on TV; lots of media including the BBC, France 2, CNN and any liberal left newspaper push their house view, which is anti-Israel.

I am not stating, nor do I believe, that these organisation are acting in concert. I do believe they share a similar belief-set (whatever the actions or inactions of the protagonists, Israel is always at fault) and their presentation of the “facts” is done to perpetuate this view.

One hardly expects a Palestinian to be neutral; but the position presented by Western media is one of neutrality. So when they, at best, turn a blind eye to, or, at worst, deliberately encourage the reporting of Palestinian stringer propaganda as “the facts” I believe one is fully intitled to cry foul.

Ah yes Gaza, where “freedom fighters” hide their missile launchers and missiles in schoolyards, because they’re so damn concerned with the safety of children.

“They lack the uncertainty that would give honesty a purpose.”

Isn’t that the sine qua non of all zealots–be they religious, racial ideological, gnostic “progressives” etc.? “Often in error–never in doubt!”

I understand the poor boy’s father has previously offered to have the body of his son exhumed to put an end to speculation.
Whatever the truth of this particular case there is no denying the underlying reality that Palestinian children are getting killed again and again by Israeli action in this conflict. It is obvious that the boycott of Hamas is more likely to intensify the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza than bring down the Hamas government. One of the reasons why a comprehensive ceasefire is necessary as an alternative to continuing a futile conflict.

Demonification of Israel, America and Western imperialism is the staple diet of western demopaths. So hungry for evidence of Israeli attrocities it has given rise that a whole industry, known as Pallywood to supply and feed their hunger. Enderlin and so many other western news agencies were a complicit part of that industry, believing their lies and distortions would remain unchallenged.. And even if they were, only A TINY MINORITY of the general public would ever hear about it.
Demopathy is any action or intentional inaction which uses the language, logic and/or law of democratic society to misappropriate, weaken, undermine, subvert, or overthrow democratic society.
The media are not alone as dupes though, as westerners, we are all hobbled by many cultural blind spots which fester in the corridors of moral equivalence, political correctness and multiculturalism.
Is this the price we have to pay for democracy?

Still have not seen anything about this anywhere except in the Israeli media and do not expect to. This is how the Politically Correct Media handles stories that are idealogically incorrect. They merely refuse to publish anything about it. You do not need a totaltarian state to send unwanted news down the memory hole. A free Media with a restrictive idealogy is a good enough subsitute.

Should remember the importance of Mohammed al-Dura in the current world wide hatred of Israel and the Jewish people everywhere. Footage of al-Dura supposedly being shot by Israeli troops was part of the horrible Daniel Pearl Execution video. This anti-Semitic hatred whiped up by the Arab and Western Media is not going end any time soon. Nor is the bulk of the Western Media going to become any less hostile to Israel. Hatred of Israel is far too important a part of their overall hatred of the West in general and the United States in particular for that to change any time soon.

Fortunately we do have the internet to challenge and undermine the traditional media. They no longer can control the message as they could have as recently as 20 years ago. It is up to us to spread the truth and expose those who for one reason or another seek to force their own restricted version of the truth upon the peoples of the West.

A reminder that an independent French ballistics expert found that Mohammed Al Dura could not have been struck by Israeli gunfire. Whether he was struck by other gunfire is unclear.

That French ballistics expert report pointed out that in the footage that the bullets hitting the wall above the boy and his father were fired from face on, while if they had been fired by the Israeli’s they would have been hitting at quite an angle.

Hopefully there will be some more legal action in France, I just hope someone with deep pockets sues them for causing anti-semitism through either incompetence or a deliberate act.

I am also hoping that people like the BBC will also admit on their main news that the whole thing was staged, but I will not hold my breath, Mr Bowen would never allow that…

Excellent France2 are going to appeal to the highest court in France, now the MSM duplicity will be fully exposed, I hope France2 go ahead with this.

Gideon Levy in Haaretz hit the nail on the head in a piece last October
“All of these are tasteless questions designed to divert attention from the truly important issues: According to data collected by the human rights group B’Tselem, Israel is responsible for killing more than 850 Palestinian children and teenagers since al-Dura was killed including 92 last year alone. Last October we killed 31 children in Gaza…. what will we say about the other children that have been killed, that their killing was also staged? That the IDF did not kill them through carelessness and contempt for their lives; by being trigger happy and even acting with pre-meditation?”
Exactly so.

How many chlldren have the PLO et al killed in this same period Jon-boy?

When you use children as human shields, or as warriors, or even as Hamas do, transport dead bodies to site are we to be shocked by these deaths or by the cynical use of children as propaganda weapons or actual weapons; including some mentally disabled ones. Or shocked by the oft-mentoned PLO ‘fact’ that there simply are no Israeli children or civilians, which of course works both ways.

By the way on-topic an Israeli doctor recently claimed that he had treated Al Dura Snr. before this incident (of the IDF shooting through walls and small children dying without bleeding, or being flung into the air, or even lying still in front of the camera) and Durs Snrs earlier wounds were the source of the scars he later proudly displayed claiming to be from this incident, he doesn’t bleed for camera either btw. Some may even wish to consider wandering into a fire-fight and riot that has been going on for some time makes you a bit questionable in the parenting skills dept.

I sure Al Dura Sr. has been and, as long as he keeps his mouth shut, will continue to be well-compensated by the PLO or Hamas.

Jon:

Not that I think much would penetrate the mind of someone who takes Gideon Levy seriously or believes B’tsalem is any different from the other NGOs operating in Israel and the Territories just because it’s Israeli, but if you dug just a little deeper you’d know that many of the children who died were either the immediate family of terrorists, or unfortunate enough to have “militants” operating around their homes and schools, just as surely as in Lebanon, where Hezbollah actually built rooms on the homes of the Shias who would let them in exchange for fixing their houses so they could use install rocket launchers used in the 2006 war between Hez and Israel. Only a few weeks ago, it was determined that four children killed in an explosion were not killed by Israeli mortar shells, but by armaments carred by one of the martyrdom brigades that exploded as they were being carried near by. A few years back, Hamas claimed as a martyr to the cause some poor teenager who was murdered by “resistors” trying to help his family drive a nest of rocket launchers off his family’s strawberry farm. And there’s nothing new about this. Because the Arab armies couldn’t defeat Israel in conventional war, Fatah and Hamas have operated like the Mafia, intimidating anyone who wanted to build a normal society in the territories for decades. One of the first female suicide bombers was the daughter of a man who was known to have business relations with Israeli business interests, but the western media dropped this side of the story very shortly after. And of course, there’s the late Yasser Arafat, captured on PA TV exhorting his people to give their children up for martyrdom if they themselves are too old and tired to do so, and the relentless propagandizing in schools, mosques and on the media honouring “shahids” while his wife and daughter lived the high life in Paris, and the very public ritual of paying of stipends to the surviving relatives. Arab citizens of Israel complain of being second-class citizens and I’m sure they are treated with suspicion and condescension at times by some ignorant Israelis, but a few opinion polls recently conducted concluded that most would never give up life in Israel to live under the PA, Egypt or Syria, because they know they live a far better life than their brethren in those countries.

Irie:

I have no idea what you do for a living, but I don’t recommend you giving up your day job to become a professional commentator on legal issues. France 2 had to be compelled to release the bulk of the footage, which was over 20 minutes long, and included many minutes of Palestinians making like an Italian soccer team practicing looking as though they had taken a hit. For years, France 2 insisted they had actual footage showing the boy’s death, but didn’t want to release it because it was too awful to show, and sat on the footage showing the “war games”. Enderlin knew full well what he had and what he was doing by accusing the IDF of wildly firing in the direction of the Al-Duras, but the story made him a media star, and that’s all that mattered to him. That this hoax, this modern blood libel, was used to inflame and recruit Muslims to the cause and resulted in the deaths of many non-Jews and Jews alike is utterly vile, and if you truly lament the deaths of innocents, it would bother you.