Harry’s Place

Chains are bad because they uphold health standards and are genuinely embarrassed if ther premises look run down or their service is shoddy. That’s why people hate them. And people love boycotting South Africans. It’s like playing on old record. SOunds crackly, but feels warm.

Funny because true.

FYI there’s already a Nando’s on Kingsland High st, probably 5 mins from Church street. The turkish Kebab shops in that area are the best though - something a little more unusual. Nando’s is good though.

David T

Nowt more dangerous than a Jew with a Lute :)

Round my way, there is an unofficial boycott of the Costa. Whilst KFC and yet another subway are in the area too, they don’t seem to take away trade from the many not change chicken and sandwich places along the strip. Costa’s sole competition is a tiny greasy spoon cum Coffee shop which is now booming after locals decided they prefered to have a crap undeconstructed 70s dive rather than not. The strenght of community

The post traumatic stress disorder which waiting staff experience when serving South Africans worries me.

I went in Nando’s for the first time recently and was quite impressed. Nice food, albeit a little bit dry, and very reasonably priced.

I did have a cappuccino as well though.

Still getting my head around the girliemensch concept…

Don’t stereotype me in terms of my membership of the lute playing community, man

I’m from the Spudulike generation meself..

Another N16 blogger has reached remarkably similar conclusions to you, David T.

http://www.benlocker.com/2008/06/if-you-want-a-nandos-for-a-neighbour/#comments

Boycotting businesses is so self-regarding anyway. Getting banned from them - that’s the way forward.

Nando’s: It’s middle class fast-food (with a good line in anti-vegetarian, fuck-you-PC schtick too; “We love vegetarians: all of our chickens were that” along with Benny Hill/Bert Baxter style jokes about breasts and legs.)

Terribly English, actually…

Still, where I live, there’s aufentic Portuguese and Madeiran caffs and restaurants aplenty…. and the Wimpy Bar (It wouldn’t surprise me if the number of them in this borough is in double figures, actually) has just been restyled….back to the old red and white look, which is much better than any corporate style they have had in the meantime

Still, given the choice between a chain and a good local place, I’d always go for the latter. One pleasant thing here is that the best selling ice-cream locally ain’t Walls or whatever, but “Rossi’s Of Sunny Southend-on-Sea”.

The flavours are broad and varied - maple walnut is fantastic, butterscotch the dogs bollocks, the bitter lemon sorbet…the end of your teeth, the taste superlative, as well as their various kiosks and other outlets, they have a superb art-deco ice-cream bar on the seafront (like all good things in SoS, in Westcliff, not Southend itself, even if this tends to be denied officially)….

They are also one of the few places that do pistachio ice-cream in the UK (no zuppa inglese yet, alas) - and the quality overall is in an entirely different league from Marine Ices, say.

Here in the States, McDonald’s has reacted to ongoing public health problem of poisoned tomatoes by withdrawing all of them from it menu, for the time being. No word yet on whether this means other harmful food such as the rest of their menu will also be withdrawn!

Brr soulless.
They’re running a repeat of the 1979 general election special in real time on BBC4… Is thatcher about to croak?

Many years ago, when I was a nipper, playing on the beach with my cousins, we found an enormous dead jellyfish on the beach. We took it home (in six buckets), and eventually, it stank it’s way to freedom via the storm drain, with a lot of enthusiastic help from my mother.

And every time I go near a delicatessen, I see the bugger again, in a jar on a shelf. Reproaching me silently.
Sulking.
Whispering.

“I know who you are, and I saw what you did.”

So mainly I stick to jam and bread, or occasionally chips.

mmmm…I like Nandos, though I do worry about where they get their chickens from. I do however, like my chips with an utterly insane amount of their spice on them - I always ask for the spice shaker to be brought to the table so I can deluge them in extra spice. That stuff is more addictive than crack….

My god, Jon D - The Dimblebys have been in power for ever.

Your post reminds me of almost every post on this fine blog:

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/

Was this post really worth the precious bandwidth?

Rossis is a chain though, isn’t it? I used to go to the one in Walthamstow when I was a kid, but haven’t been for years - although I passed by the Westcliffe on Sea one on the way to Neil Denny’s lovely wedding. Wasn’t there also one in Epping?

There was a stage when their ice cream wasn’t too great. It had big lumps of undissolved flavouring stuff in it.

http://www.rossiicecream.com/

That’s what I was thinking ChrisC. HP contributers, nobody really gives a fuck about your boring lives. Stick to what you do best, which is post idiotic arguments supporting the latest authoritarian kneejerk legislation from Nu Labour.

…or in the case of Graham and Palubiski, make racist comments and then suddenly forget them.

Tagnuzlsx nobody really gives a fuck about your boring comments.

Tagnuzlsx = the new sonic.

Lutes to crack the Guitar hegemon!

One day, Comrades

Your just jealous and projecting KevinG

Nando’s food may resemble what you ate in Portugal because Mozambique is a former Portuguese colony, with Portuguese as its official language (albeit a minority spoken language), and probably exports a fair number of its people as migrant workers to Portugal. Also, a lot of white Portuguese fled Mozambique back to Portugal after the 1974 coup, when the army decided it was sick of propping up the empire and pulled out quickly, and the civilians pulled out with them, but I guess they brought bits of the local culture back to the “mother country” with them.

Vintage Angela Ripon where she’s not going to jump over the counter and start dancing.
The set is a symphony in beige.

It was, indeed.

[Blockquote]I hate jazz[/blockquote]

Funny. I’ve just started hating you.

Ah–the Vortex in its heyday also had real live log fires going…..It was a great place to take the kids after school on a fractious winter afternoon.

There’s an Italian ice cream operation in the kiosk by the restaurant at Golders Hill Park; pistachio is just one of the many varieties; certainly packs in the customers day after day.

Just what is Angela Phillips on? The nearest Waitrose to N16? Wouldn’t that be Boris Johnson’s local branch up on the Holloway Road? Or have they managed to squeeze a branch in round the back of Clissold Pool?

I think a good reason to “boycott” McDonalds is their food is shit and the environment in there awful.

As for Nandos, I went there the last time in London, with my father who is South African, and the food was quite good although not spectacular. Seems an odd thing to write a whole blog post about. I tend to look askance at people who drone on about food and wax lyrical about this are that restaurant. Nice to have good grub, but not to ramble on about it.

There is a middle class preciousness about this, that is annoying, but there is another side to this. In Hong Kong for instance things are more advanced; and there is a battle is about preserving heritage and battling skyrocketing rents. Hong Kong is dominated by chains and brands. That’s fine, on one level, there is nothing wrong with the products they sell, or the good deals many give their customers. However, some ask whether its necessary that the whole place be dominated by the same chain stores. Its necessary in the sense of making as much money as possible; this is done by renting out highly efficient and identical shopping centres to huge conglomerates who are the only ones who can afford the rents.

Whilst I can see the logic of all this, I can also understand those who are concerned about preserving other forms of capitalism, heritage, local art etc, and find the uniformity of this sort of corporate development a bit stultifying. I think the argument goes a bit deeper than sneering at Guardian readers and muesli munchers.

Just wait for the forthcoming expose of motorway service areas.

When you go to a Nandos, you’ll see families from all cultural backgrounds eating together.

Which is true of many places in London, naturally, corporate and non-corporate. That’s a function of London itself.

This is all a bit of a justification for growing middle-aged in a middle-class “bohemian” village isn’t it? Such is London life.

John Wayne would have put the wagons in a circle, had a battle with the local injuns, built the church and ended the film drinking whisky as the town’s first baby was born.

You lot just move sedately from squat to Starbucks. It is a wonderful process to watch and so very English.

David T,

Nandos does indeed serve various chilli-based dishes - particularly those containing piri piri sauce - that originated in the former Portuguese colony, Mozambique, and which travelled to Portugal, in much the same way as some Indian cuisine travelled to Britain.

Portugal’s tasca (ie local neighbourhood restaurant) cuisine is still dominated by homecooking based on filling fish (principally cold water north Atlantic fish and dried-salted cod (bacalhau) which I’ve never managed to get into) and meat (mainly pork) dishes - and its own traditional surf and turf dishes (principally the mouth-watering carne do porco alentejano (ork with clams in garlic sauce, from the Alentejo region) there is often a chilli influence in some of the more touristy restaurants (partly because Brits on holiday like something that reminds them of their favourite Indian food back home).

Recommendations for your next visit:

–> giant prawns with piri piri sauce (the prawns caught off the Portuguese coast are among the best in the world and grilled with either a chilli-based or garlic based marinade, they are stunning (particularly on a hot night with a cold dry white wine);

–> carne do porco alentejano (best place for this is the atmospheric - yet slightly touristy - and legendary Bota Alta restaurant in the Bairo Alto in Lisbon. Get there by 6,30 if you want a table by 7,30 as they don’t accept reservations).

Oooh, happy memories from my years in Portugal.

A talk on gays in the Middle East with an American SWP woman with an anglo saxon surname, representing the perspective of Palestinian Trotksyites on the issue and then Nandos. You certainly know how to party, that man.

I’m with Thermaland. N16 rocks. Palestinian trots and all. I used to live there and even had a birthday party at the Vortex once. It was a cool place where I could indulge the fantasy that I was still living the student boho life, even as I struggled with the mortgage payments.

I went to Nando’s once. I had the chicken. But my new favourite restaurant is Le Restaurant Arménien in Cannes. I’ve never been, but I’m hoping to go later this month. It specialises in very badly translated Armenian dishes, such as:

The laminated ones with cheeses
The laminated ones with spinaches
The pizza pie with the meat
Pellets of oxen to grasses
The national dish
The laminated one with nuts
The cake vermiculations almonds & flowers of orange trees
Crunching with sesame

And The salad of believed cabbage heart, which I think was a short story by Edgar Allen Poe.

I see Bill has given my own Nando’s argument a plug. Ta.

David T, though - you shouldn’t be so easy to satisfy when it comes to drink. Clissold Wines is indeed better than Oddbins, but nothing but the extra 10 minute walk up to Highbury Vintners is good enough for me…

I see Bill has given my own Nando’s argument a plug. Ta.

David T, though - you shouldn’t be so easy to satisfy when it comes to drink. Clissold Wines is indeed better than Oddbins, but nothing but the extra 10 minute walk up to Highbury Vintners is good enough for me…

Portuguese food and the portuguese language are portugal’s most important cultural patrimony (sorry my english is really bad today…). I can say without exageration that they are the essence of our national identity.

of course, the best place to eat it is at a portuguese home, provided that the host/hostess is a good cook. They not easy to find, and then you have to get invited … most people cook very bad, of course i am not one of them :-)

david bruno:
Bota Alta is a really nice place. it’s not turistic, it’s autentic. Turists go there because it is autentic. Most of the clients are locals and we really get mad when turists invade it because it is a small restaurant… fortunatelly turists love to dine early, while we prefer to have dinner latter.

as a lisboner, I cannot stop getting amazed how this city has the hability to retain its autenticity despite the fact that is is constantly under pressure.

(now i am getting nostalgic… Bota Alta was my father’s favorite restaurant: I should go there just to matar saudades…it’s better to just leave the comment here before i start crying, we portuguese tend to get emotional with small things)

Why are you particularly obsessive at the moment, David, about the RCP?

I signed the petition, partly because I wasn’t in the mood for an argument, and partly cos there’s already a perfectly good piri-piri place on Church St already. There is a slight subtext of ‘keep the great unwashed off our lovely street’ going on with the campaign though

I’ve nothing against Nando’s itself - apart from the fact that Mrs Pangloss tends to smother my ‘bland’ cooking in their sauce (available at all good supermarkets). Don’t know if you’re right about a lot of them being halal - I’m only aware of one, out Willesden/Queens Park direction, where half the Muslim kids in London get taken on their birthday.

Agreed - Nando’s rocks. However I’d love to know more about the talk you were at about being gay in the Middle East!

tagnzzz so far around 47 people give a f-. The clue is in the keyword at the bottom right.

in the 80s I held a children’s birthday party in SA and a small boy informed me he and his sister couldn’t eat any of the sweets. Although they were Muslim, it wasn’t a Halal issue (people weren’t that bothered in those days) but as he explained, because they were Rowntrees which was involved in a dispute with the black unions. Ironic that, given Rowntree’s record in the UK.

At the risk of turning very Grim Up North London, yes Ben, Highbury Vinters is fantastic. Great range of beers too.

Hi Sarah Franco,

“it’s not turistic, it’s autentic. Turists go there because it is autentic. ”

Yes, I know. I only meant it was ‘touristy’ in the sense that tourists actually do go there. But, you are right, it is still very tipico.

Sou ingles mas passei dois anos inesque

Sarah Franco,

sou ingles mas passei dois anos inesqueciveis em Portugal. Tenho tambem saudades.

Peco desculpa das quaisquer palavras erradas — eis a primeira vez que escrevo em portugues desde 10 anos.

Um abraco para as suas lagrimas.

I was more of a KFC man myself, until chicken got a little too cheap that I started wondering exactly what I was putting in my body. Since then I moved onto lamb kebabs (not Doner) which proved to be particularly good value across North London. The meat tends to be transparently fresh, is freshly cooked for you, and usually you can get an double serving of meat for less than one additional pound.

There’s a great little place in Kentish Town at the junction of Fortess Road and Highgate Road - I can’t remember which of those roads it’s on, but it’s on the east side, and most likely on Highgate Road. The staff are friendly and generous with the salad. Don’t get the chips: they’re not that great, and besides, you’ve got a large kebab - what do you need chips for?

I go to Nandos because they make one of the best veggie burgers available.

I’m also pleased that a South African chain is doing well. I hope Spur does just as well.

I have eaten at a MacDonalds only once. It was when the first one opened in Johannesburg. It was a novelty. I had a packet of chips and what might best be described as ‘an apple desert’. It didn’t rock my world - but then I’m a vegetarian. Later I was disgusted by the MacMurder trial and have avoided them ever since.

I quite like Nandos, always thought they were Portuguese though, that’s what they advertised themselves as when they had a campaign a couple of years back, although come to think of it, it was during the Eng-SA test series.

Pretty sure all Nandos are Halal, at least that’s what my Muslim friends seem to think anyway. Incidentally, anyone who thinks Nandos is fast food for middle class people obviously hasn’t been to the Nandos in Whitechapel or Finsbury Park.

On N16, my dad, who worked for the SS part of the DHSS in Hackney back in the early 80s still reacts in horror when I say I’m going out in Stoke Newington. I don’t think he can quite believe how much things have changed since then, especially since he hasn’t lived in London for over 10 years.

Actually, the SS part of the DHSS doesn’t sound that good does it? Although some of his cases might agree with it. It means he worked for social security ie benefits.

Pangloss, the peri-peri place on Church Street is itself part of a chain, albeit one smaller than Nando’s. I find it difficult to understand why Nando’s is the thin end of the wedge, given the other chains on Church Street, not forgetting The Lion (a Massive Pub), Ladbrokes, Savills and Next Move.

And there is no reason to suspect that Church Street will become ‘Clone Britain,’ to use a phrase I’ve seen in one or two blogs. The properties on Church Street are too small and awkward for most chain stores, and even if they weren’t, Stoke Newington High Street and Green Lanes are hardly examples of ‘Clone Britain.’ Hooray for more diversity in Nappy Valley.

Wardytron -

If you like that sort of thing, try some of these menus -

http://www.engrish.com/category_index.php?category=Menus

I had my lute restrung at the local violin makers.
Now there’s a new euphemism!

I’ve been doin’ Nandos for 15 yrs. I’ts really very good indeed…make mine half a peri-peri chicken, extra hot, with wedgies and a freshly squeezed Windhoek.

My favourite dish on a greek menu was “Cuttle Lamp” (lamb cutlets)

Why are you particularly obsessive at the moment, David, about the RCP?

They’re playas.

Cheers Hasan, didn’t know that. Never seen another one of those chicken shops.

I always mean to shop more on Green Lanes - it’s got the best of both worlds. And it’s got Hot Nuts.

SOC, re halal, Mrs Pangloss (who knows rather more about these things than I do) seems pretty certain that they’re not all halal - maybe they used not be, but are now. Might check the Stroud Green Road one on the weekend, out of interest.

There is a blatant (and halal) Nando’s rip off on the Whitechapel end of Brick Lane. Can’t remember what it’s called now, but it was something quite funny.

Nandos is the only restaurant in England that I have eaten at more than once.

Oh, talking of South African resteraunt chains. I heard from a friend who visits THE Regime regularly from the UK, that there is a Spur steak house in Belfast….County Down that is, not Mpumulanga!

Just had a look at the Nando’s site. They give information on halal or not. Apparently, the Stroud Green one is, but the Upper Street one isn’t.

So there you are.

“There is a blatant (and halal) Nando’s rip off on the Whitechapel end of Brick Lane. Can’t remember what it’s called now, but it was something quite funny.”

Pandoo’s

I try to avoid Halal restaurants, I really don’t like the idea of ritually slaughtered meat.

“The laminated ones with cheeses”

While on the Lune de meil we ate at a restaurant in Sarlat that had translated the house’s own take on sauted fois gras as;

“the chefs own fat liver”

We didn’t partake though.

They’ve also got something called “The Broken Corn Salad”, which sound more like an episode of Seinfeld than a restaurant dish.

Do you like game?

Is that a general question, David?

yes, yes I do.

Venison, rabbit, duck, all yes please. Not so keen on pheasant, although last year on the first day of the pheasant season I made a point of wearing a tweed jacket. Because that’s what you wear in to work in SE1, isn’t it.

Yep, any of the above, and I’ll add pigeon to the list. Although I do sometimes find venison a bit too, erm, gamey.

I was just wondering whether objections to ritual slaughter might extend to that… for Nick, primarily.

Wardy - did you wear plus fours?

Wow thanks for the Spurs info, NickSA. Am going to Belfast soon and will make a beeline for it. We once trekked all the way to Staines from NW London to visit a Spur, but going to Belfast will be a lot more pleasant. Looking for the address, I found a 2005 SA Independent review of Spurs, which said with SA eating becoming more sophisticated, no one would admit patronising Spur any more.

No, I was worried I might look like a git, although obviously not worried enough to take off the tweed jacket. I did see someone on my street a few months ago carrying a brace of pheasant, which I thought was quite flash as an accessory.

david bruno:

fico comovida: geralmente os ingleses que vêm a Portugal não se dão ao trabalho de aprender o português, incluindo umas boas centenas que cá vivem durante muitos anos.

resultado: o melhor do país passa-lhes ao lado… felizmente que consigo foi diferente.

“I really don’t like the idea of ritually slaughtered meat.”

How do you feel about ritually stirred coffee? Or ritually chaffed wheat?

Schmuel, why do you get banned from everywhere, then?

Just had a look at the Stop Nandos Facebook group. Fucking hell. I’m going up there on opening day and having a whole chicken, like my friend Bruno does. In fact, I’m going to invite Bruno up and buy him a chicken. Then we’ll get pissed on Super Bock and stand on the street and abuse them. Fuck em, fucking Cameron-worshipping ‘proud to be middle class’ tossers. Every last one.

Avoid the Nandos on Kilburn High Road, poor lighting, poor quality chicken and small inconsistent portions.

How come you’re out gadding about so soon after the birth of a new baby, Mr T? I was interested in what you said about playing a lute, I have been learning the classical guitar recently and I would actually love to learn the lute, but I looked up the price of them on the Internet and they are thousands of pounds, I think they have to be hand-made for each individual. By the way, I would have thought the chilli influence in Portugese cuisine came from the Arabs, but David Bruno suggests not.

Well, the Portugese took chilis to India first, didn’t they?

last year on the first day of the pheasant season I made a point of wearing a tweed jacket.

Oh! I’m not the only one. Though not in SE1 - more like EC2

“Schmuel, why do you get banned from everywhere, then?”

?

Did the Portugese take chillis to India? Thinking about it the chilli is a New World plant, so the Portugese must have brought it over to Europe. Did it spread to the Arabs via the Indians then?

I’d love to know how chillis got to India too. What happened before?

Anyhow…

I had a lute made by somebody from the London College of Furniture, which had a lute building course, in the 80s. I thought I’d give it another go, and it needed some overhauling!

It was definitely through the Portugese. What happened before? The Indians had to buy Nando’s Piri Piri sauce from Tesco to liven up their bland food, just like Mrs Pangloss does today.

David TI was just wondering whether objections to ritual slaughter might extend to that… for Nick, primarily.
No, not really….that is I have no objection to eating game. Indeed I’d like to see more land in Europe utilised this way rearing game. I would describe bagging a brace of pheasants with a 12 bore as more traditional than ritual.

Not done that sort of hunting myself..style with 12 bore green wellies, barbour, flat hat, Labradors and Range Rover. Not because I object, probably because I’m too lower middle class to have encountered any invitations and I’ve spent more of my adult life outside the UK than in it.

But I have been known to nab a bok or two , purely for the pot, the trophy thing leaves me cold. My first impala kill, back in 94,with an old 1944 Lee Enfield .303 No4, involved having my face daubed in the still twitching buck’s blood and being persuaded to eat the tip - quite a big chuck - of the raw, warm, very bloody liver, cut out of the freshly opened body cavity by the Afrikaans boetjies I was out hunting with. I guess that qualifies - as ‘ritual’, or at least ‘traditional’. There were no incantations made other than ‘lekker skeet soatie”. I was rather proud of the shot, through the chest, taken standing from about 170 metres, when one of the spooked herd of 50 or so bounding away, paused to look back, as they are wont to do.

The fillets done on the barbeque - or braai rather - with a marinade made from peri-peri and olive oil, red wine, salt and pepper, were simply sublime…..yummy, very tender! The rest went to biltong, some sosaties and a couple of poitjies….all really great SA cuisine.

Ami wrote:Looking for the address, I found a 2005 SA Independent review of Spurs, which said with SA eating becoming more sophisticated, no one would admit patronising Spur any more.
Many restaurant in Jo’burg, and Cape Town are just superb; perhaps partly what’s making me find Istanbul such a gastronomic disappointment. Yes it is getting quite sophisticated - or there is that sophistication option. Spur is something the kids love, and they still seem pretty busy. I took my 11 year old son to the Crowthorne Spur in Midrand - one of the better Spurs - last week whilst I was briefly back in SA. Had a lekker T bone, he had ribs. The wine list is a bit thin there though, Nedeburg Baronne is about as good as it gets.

I have a feeling that Spur is something to do with a relative of mine, or a friend of my cousin. I had dinner with the person responsible for them when I was in Cape Town last.

Sue R & Pangloss,

I believe the journey of the chilli - and piri piri sauce - to Portugal is as follows.

Chilli seeds were originally taken to the Iberian Peninsula by Columbus on a trip back from his discoveries of the New World. Portuguese traders then took the seeds to Mozambique and Angola where they were planted. The chilli pods that grew were christened ‘piri’ - which I believe is a Swahili word for ‘pepper’ - and spread all over the southern countries of Africa. The chillies were used to spice up dishes and also as a preservative. Both the chillies and the recipes associated with them then made their way back from Mozambique to Portugal.

Goa was also a Portuguese colony - so, maybe chillies arrived in India via the Portuguese in Goa?

The Tamil (and I think Malayam) word for aubergine (brinjal) is of Portuguese origins too!

David, cheers for that. And yes, they got to India through Goa. The popular, chili heavy curry “vindaloo” is based on Portugese “vinho de alho”

Yup the Europeans - initially the Portuguese, later facilitated by the Dutch East Indies compay - introduced Chilli to Asian food! And not alot of people know that.

Bombay was also a Portuguese colony for a time. Given to Britain as a wedding present for Charles II.

OK here’s the current menu from Brown’s of Rivonia, one of my favorites - to get pound stirling, divide by 15.

Nick,

If I ever get to South Africa, I will definitely be making a visit to Brown’s of Rivonia.

Ami, there are Spurs all over London now. There’s one in The Dome (had supper there before Iron Man a few weeks ago) and there’s one at the Lakeside Shopping Centre. There’s one (I think, in the Docklands) and one in Wandsworth, and I’ve seen others.

They’re pretty good, but I miss the bottomless coffee and the salad vaelley, which they don’t seem to have ported from the SA version. Still, really good nachos.

I think both Nandos and Spur have identified a gap in the British market for family-friendly restuarants that aren’t too down-market on the one hand (say like Little Chef or Wimpy), or too expensive and child-unfriendly on the other.

“The Tamil (and I think Malayam) word for aubergine (brinjal) is of Portuguese origins too!”

They’re called brinjals in South Africa, where Malay cooking is a huge influence on Afrikaans cooking.

Indian food in South Africa is also quite differnent. Hotter and spicier. I prefer it. For those who also prefer it, I heard an Indian guy from Durban has opened a restuarnt in Croyden cooking SA style… and yes, he makes bunny-chow. I’m quite keen to go and try it.

Wimpy is I think - originally South African, and was ported to the UK in the late 60s early 70s

OK anyone visiting the Cape must also visit Wijnhuis Stellenbosch, right in the middle of Stellenbosch, another favorite.

Anyway the important thing is, where did the jazz club go, you uncultured swine?

Down the road in a new square in Dalston, Wardy.

wardytron: ‘Anyway the important thing is, where did the jazz club go, you uncultured swine?’

I think it was originally going to relocate to Ocean in Hackney, but that plan fell through. I believe it may now be somewhere in Dalston.

Last time I was at the (original) Vortex I saw Sarah Jane Morris, the shouty ginge from the Communards who wasn’t Jimmy Somerville. She was pretty fantastic, actually.

If anyone tried to turn one of my distinctive neighbourhood businesses such as Lucky Seven or McGowan’s into a jazz club, I would certainly start a petition to keep that sort of thing out of Cricklewood.

here is a good book on the Portugese and Chillis.

I have never worn a tweed jacket and I thought Stoke newington was middle-class in the early eighties (when I seem to remember being taken to that bookshop.)

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=kl70GrMq6vwC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=chilli’s+arrive+in+India&source=web&ots=cdrk8XMDcv&sig=eMNqalCsuS88kjp-JyVkBv2w3d4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

http://thisisstokenewington.wordpress.com/2007/02/22/x-vortex-part-trois/

You missed the best bit of the Vortex saga.

BTW Johnny Void is a tool.

Nandos is the KFC of the petit bourgeoiusie!

graham, really nice book!

curry is CARIL in portuguese…

and that thing about vinho e alhos, we tend to eat parts of the words, so it becomes vinhadalhos

let’s not forget that refrigerators are a product of the 20th century.

so, to conclude, a nice grilled chicken needs to stay in a marinade of vinhadalhos for at least 24 hours.

the taste of the chicken depends on the specific recepy… cooking is the art that more cleary defines both our personal tastes and our collective heritage and our readiness to inovate and thus contribute to the dinamism of culture

darren redstar: Nandos is the KFC of the petit bourgeoiusie!

Excellent!….Some truth in that….respect!.

For me, Nandos is very middle class. I’m more Wetherspoons man, which makes me more working class than Graham.

My favourite public house, The Moon Under Water. An essay by George Orwell.

I’m sorry, Nando’s is shit, by any standards. The piece gives the impression that it the menu is interesting; this place is solely set up to sell chicken and chips. That’s it. Not even decent freshly cut chips, but bulk bought frozen chips. It you like this you have appalling taste in food, never mind class.

At least Henry J. Beams, and Chiquitos, and even flipping Franky and Benny’s sell more than chicken and chips. You’re far better off going to KFC or another fried chicken place and spending a third of the money. Shit by any standards.

“I’m sorry, Nando’s is shit, by any standards. The piece gives the impression that it the menu is interesting; this place is solely set up to sell chicken and chips. “

What a load of bollocks! And I don’t even eat chicken.

I’m more Wetherspoons man, which makes me more working class than Graham.

No, that means you are either a pensioner, a care in the community case, banned from all the other pubs in the neighbourhood, a hopeless alcoholic or a total loser. (Or a combination of the above).

There’s rarely any reason to go to a Wetherspoons
(won’t say NEVER - as they do sell good beer, and they are cheap: “The George” in Wanstead (lovely grand Georgian building over two floors, overlooking the village green, decorated with lots of pictures of people called George, incl. Bushes sr and jr, and a big origami dragon is OK: Certainly not the best pub in Wanstead, but not the worst either)

But Bill is more or less right - as someone who spends as much time in pubs as he should be

One of my least favourite public houses, The Famous George Orwell (which would make him turn in his grave even more than Wetherspoons appropriating the name of his ideal pub for naff chain ones devoid of atmosphere and full of alkies)

Did you write that review of the Orwell Ven? Here’s another one you should avoid:

http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/21/21809/Dylans/Lewisham

Although to me pubs like this are the very essence of a place like Lewisham and a soap opera on tap (so to speak.)

In general Weatherspoons are a bit middle-class for South-East London Alan.

Wetherspoons Middle Class? You are absolutely joking (want some cheap backy mate? A cheap watch?) Bad beer? I’ve never heard of Nandos, nor somewhere called Green Lanes (though since I grew up ground there I have heard of Green Lane). And I visit the Vaults, an historic Ipsiwch pub (The Golden Lion is its official title but it’s called the Vaults because it was built in the Middle Ages on the site of an ancient, er, vaults, and as for history, it hosted anti-slavery meetings by Clarkson, and so it goes). The Abbot Ale is not bad either.

My main objection to Wetherspoons at the moment is that in its latest magazine it has a puff piece for Boris, Dark Lord of London.

PS: David T, will contact you

Wetherspoons Middle Class? You are absolutely joking

I am of course only talking in the context of somewhere like Catford where Weatherspoons is not only “middle-class” but pushing at the boundaries of “posh.”

Andrew, Green Lanes has been called Green Lanes for hundreds of years. Take a look at some old Ordnance Survey Maps.

‘Posh’ in Catford would be somewhere like The Ram. The Litten Tree and Yates’s are two pub brands that make Wetherspoons look like Claridge’s. When I used to work in Staines, there was a Litten Tree where the police used to park a van at closing time on Friday and just fill it up with the patrons of the pub.

BTW, has anyone ever eaten at Salt and Pepper on Stoke Newington Church Street? I mean, anyone?

How can you compare KFC to Nando’s? The colonel’s stuff is colourless, tasteless and ordourless. I am not too keen on very spicy foods, not with an acid reflux affliction, but I had a Nando’s chicken takeaway at a Newlands test match once and found it pretty appetising. American fast food chains like KFC and McDonald’s are selling rock-bottom product. Bottom-line cuisine.

I had no idea South Africa’s traditional fast food restaurants had opened up UK fronts. Shows how long it is since I lived in London.
Ironically, although Spur initially wiped the floor with McDonald’s when the golden arches arrived post-apartheid (Big Mac couldn’t compete with the weighty burgers of 100% top-grade minced beef), it lost the marketing fight for the kids market. But it seems to be bouncing back.

“Green Lane” (singular, never referred to as “Greek Lane”) could refer to the road between Ilford and Beacontree Heath…I suspect there may be others. We’re not all north londoners you know

Green Lanes connects the village greens of Stoke Newington, Turnpike Lane (Ducketts Common), Wood Green, Palmers Green, and Winchmore Hill. It was a pilgrim route in days gone by, to the shrine of Our Lady at Walsingham, and a droving road from Norfolk to Smithfield. I’ve never eaten at Nando’s although I have often wanted to. I remember a South African restaurant in Shanklin on the Isle of Wight, where we had several family holidays, which served such exotic meats as crocodile. Does this Spurs place serve up that kind of thing?

Graham,
I went into a pub in New Cross once and saw the Millwall slogan behind the bar: “Nobody likes us and we don’t care”. Outside somebody was singing “New Cross, New Cross, so good they named it twice, New Cross, New Cross, the mugging and the fights.”

I assumed it was all middle class irony.

There used to be an African restaurant in New Cross called 2000 AD. I served snail. None of your namby pamby escargot mind, but those big African snails - tough as shoe leather and competely tasteless.
It was the kind of place where they ask what starch you want first - cassava, pounded yam or maize, and then ask what meat you want.

You only get that kind of gritty authenticity and masochism in middle class places.

Alan LOL - would you believe I’ve heard the same song sung about…Woolwich?

Anyway I’ve now concluded the theme of this post is utter bollocks - even if some of the boycotters appear to be utter smug [nasty people], I don’t see any objection whatsoever to those who don’t want chain stores or restaurants or bars invading their high streets - - more power to their elbow in fact, there’s too much of this “clone town Britain” thing about. Que vivent quality local, individual, family businesses, not impersonal international bit-part chains! France and (especially) Italy understand this far better than the UK does - - what a disgrace that we have so sold our souls to the satanic ideology of neo-liberalism!

Anyway, if you don’t want to be surrounded by ponces (either of the sort who despise chain businesses, or those who are attracted to them in an épater le green-voting bourgeoisie sort of way), you shouldn’t live in Stoke Newington!

There used to be an African restaurant in New Cross called 2000 AD. I served snail. None of your namby pamby escargot mind, but those big African snails - tough as shoe leather and competely tasteless.

Now that IS middle-class; going to a restaurant and having your achatina achatina’s cooked for you. Here in the real ‘hood you used to be able to buy them live and cook them yourself (before some New Labour busybody who probably spends too much time in South African chain-restaurants banned it anyway.)

Re: Green Lane. Yeah, well Place Clichy is referred to on maps of Paris as Place de Clichy. No-one calls it that.

Since I grew up in Wood Green maybe I should know about how people talk - not the maps.

Well, I don’t know what they called it in your youth, but people who live there now call it Green Lanes.