Harry's Place

Brilliant.

60 years of of Ethnic Cleansing
Apartheid
Get out of here you Palestinian terrorist
Get off me you fascists.

Thats 1min 12 seconds jam packed full of mistakes.

“Fascists!” she yells at the police. Perhaps she should go to Gaza and demonstrate at the next Hamas rally? What expletive would she use as she’s thrown from the top of the nearest building?

Western liberal-left anti-Zionists are nothing but bigoted hypocrites, whether they’re Gentile or Jewish.

Hahaahaha wicked clip :-)

Poor Deborah Fink. Her antics are getting increasingly wild. What will she do next? Tune in to UnJust NoPeace UK and find out.

I suppose she could have hopped around hitting herseilf on the head with a shoe.

That would have made her seem a bit less mad.

Not only hooting in public; she is a woman of many talents:

Monday March 20, 2006

The following correction was printed in the Guardian’s Corrections and clarifications column, Wednesday March 22 2006

Just in case it needs any clarification, the cabaret artist Deborah Fink, referred to in the article below as performing “satirical songs about whining Palestinians” while dressed as the columnist Melanie Phillips, was not making fun of the Palestinians as such. This was perhaps clearer in the writer’s original piece. Ms Fink emphasises that the one relevant song, with words by Deborah Maccoby, was essentially a criticism of celebrities who go to Israel and ignore the plight of the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

And:
Some of us know Debbie as a light-hearted humourist, never appearing to take herself too seriously, not even when recording her experiences on a trip to Occupied Palestine:

“More olive picking. I enjoyed climbing the trees – something I never did as a child! This was followed by a musical evening with a wonderful Palestinian ensemble. I ended up belly dancing in front of the group!”

http://www.olivecoop.com/review.html#debbie

http://randompottins.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html

Every time I hear a delivery truck reversing I shall think of Deborah Fink

“I’m ashamed to be a Jew” – Really Deborah? Blimey, who’d have thunk it.

This is the fickest person Ami’s ever met.

Hello, I’m Debbie Fink and I’m FOUR. I’m going to show you my botty. Look at me look at me look at me.

I’m not happy with the woman who shouted out “you Palestinian terrorist” in response. It’s akin to the crass, racist slurs anti-Zionists regularly regurgitate over Jews.. sorry, Zionists.

Do we really have to stoop to the level of such anti-Zionist thugs? It just gives further ammunition to the likes of FWanker et al.

Deborah Fink clearly has serious personality and/or mental problems – wouldn’t it be better to have ignored her completely – after all, the only reason she’s doing all this is to get attention – for herself, by the way, and not actually the Palestinians, who are merely the means to her perverse end.

What a hoot!!

Deborah Fink’s account in her own words:

I would also like to add to this, an action I undertook for which there will soon be footage.

Wearing my short grey, ‘Mad Mel’ wig, I waited on a traffic island, opposite the statue of Eros (as there were less Israel supporters on there), waiting for the parade to approach. As they did, in full operatic voice, I started singing a parody of ‘Happy Birthday’ down my megaphone:

‘Happy birthday to you
I’m ashamed, as a Jew
Ethnic cleansing, apartheid
Unhappy birthday to you’

I then shouted, ‘Shame on you, shame on you’ in front of the JC photographer, who may have recognised me. One or two supporters actually hit me, before I was quite harshly and unnecessarily bundled by the police. I struggled and screamed as they were grabbing me from front and behind. They then took me down the road and kept me waiting. One policeman took a few details from me, while also trying to put me down and belittle what I did. In the end, a more senior officer (?) came over and warned me, saying I should not go back to where I was, otherwise they might have to take me away again.

I heard that the offical actions, like the JfJfP vigil, were also very effective. Positioned on the route of the march, they dressed in black and carried placards of the 500 villages which had been destroyed.

So, we’ve all thrown cold water on the Zionist party! Well done!

Deborah Fink
mail e-mail: debopera.fink@btopenworld.com

She was clearly proud of her actions.

which achieved what?

Upsetting her mother?

Attention for Deborah Fick.

Albert, Palestinian terrorist ain’t a slur in itself: recall The Sun successfully arguing that about Arab pigs (even if it spoiled it by then saying pigs objected to being called Arab). Saying they’re terrorists because they’re Palestinian would be. Or owt that Morgoth says.

Ah, yes.

I’m sure that people like Deborah Fink do have a serious point to make, and are genuinely concerned at the miserable position that the Arab world in general and the Palestinian leadership specifically, has left the Palestinians in.

However, you can’t help feeling that Deborah is significantly motivated by the desire to wind up ordinary working class Jews, by engaging in acts of public theatre, which involve her baiting people who she knows will humiliate themselves by shouting “you terrorist bitch” and so on.

This is why Fink’s activities generally involve “mischevous” activities, like singing songs, or proposing to strip in public, and so on.

Children often like to wind their parents or siblings up like this.

It is essentially a psychodrama, where you get a little buzz by watching other people snap.

As I said, I think it is no bad thing that we are arguing against people who beclown themselves. If anything, I feel rather sorry for the likes of Fink, whose politics seems largely to be about themselves, rather than Israel/Palestine.

It is, however, quite funny to watch.

Thinking about it, that should be ‘What a hooting nanny!!’ (hootanany- hillbilly celebration). Where can I book her for my next kids’ party?

Alec Mac – I’m sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious my anger was directed at the anti-Palestinian slur – hence my description “racist slur” – cast by sticking the word “terrorist” next to Palestinian. I used to get called all sorts of things simply for being a Jew (Christ-killer, child sacrificer, Nazi, Arab-murderer etc.,) while at school and at college and during trips around the Arab world. For that reason, I really hate any sort of racist remarks. Jews should know better – not because we are better than anyone, but simply because we’re so often at the receiving end of such slurs ourselves. Of course some slurs are more “sophisticated” than others. Fwanker can supply you with more on that.

Oh, Albert, don’t get me wrong. It was inappropriate. Yet neither do I think, unlike the abuse you endurred, was it premeditated. It was an off-the-cuff response to Fick’s attempt at gratuitous offence: interupting a life-affirming event with a dose of moral deadly nightshade. Even then, the speaker was one individual in a crowd which didn’t follow suit. You may be able to analyise bigotry of Israelis/Jews, but they ain’t Hebrew prophets. Fick blanks out it on her side and demands ownership of Jewishness.

Deborah was repressed as a child from criticising Israel at home and has always been dominated by her mother. She calls herself a Zionist but does not see the bigger picture in the Middle East. Diagnosis: Narcissism due to repression. (note that she was also going to cycle in the buff…)

And she was arrested for what, exactly? Freedom of speech – don’t make me laugh – fascist isn’t that far off.

I remember when the cartoon row was blazing, people here were earnestly explaining to me that there should be a right to offend. Why doesn’t this apply in this case then? Why is David urging sympathy with the “ordinary working class Jews” who Fink knew would only “humiliate themselves” by responding in an intolerant manner. Why is this – because its one rule for us and another for them – as always.

Because I think that Fink is significantly motivated by the desire to wind people up, and then snigger with her mates about the response.

Put it this way. I would condem somebody who stood outside a Muslim cultural event singing a silly song about Mohammed being a mass murderer through a megaphone.

I would, however, have no problem about somebody making that argument in the context of a discussion about the extent to which religious texts are used by terrorists as an inspiration for their activities

The “cartoon row” clearly falls into the latter category. Its context was that a Danish book which was part of a series of books for children on religious figures could not be published, because the publishers feared – with good cause – that they would be murdered if they published such a work.

In response, a series of cartoons were published, some of which make the fair and obvious point that some religious fanatics are encouraged to murder by their interpretation of the Quran.

The resulting furore illustrated the truth of that observation.

There’s a very big difference between engaging in that sort of debate, and searching Muslims out, showing them pictures of Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, and then sniggering about it when they complain.

Wouldn’t you love to introduce Deborah Fink to Abi Hassan?

I don’t see such a big difference. I see someone bending over backwards to contextualise the cartoons debacle and characterise their publication as part of a “reasoned debate”. Then bending over forwards to ignore any context for the song debacle, and characterise it as incitement. A silly cartoon versus a silly song. Its basically the same issue – you can’t say you have the right to one and not the other. That just makes you look like a hypocrite.

Now this is what you wrote “However, you can’t help feeling that Deborah is significantly motivated by the desire to wind up ordinary working class Jews, by engaging in acts of public theatre, which involve her baiting people who she knows will humiliate themselves by shouting “you terrorist bitch” and so on.” That is quite a fantastic sentence. Imagine if I wrote this: “However, you can’t help feeling that David T is significantly motivated by the desire to wind up ordinary working class Muslims, which involve him baiting people who he knows will humiliate themselves by shouting “you Zionist bastard” and so on.” Would you accept the argument that these poor working class Muslims were basically tricked into saying this? Of course you wouldn’t.

Fact is most people have more respect for themselves than to jump around purposely inflamming other people. Most people just want a quiet life. Let her do it, let people wave placards of Mohammed holding a bomb, and if some people over-react, most people know what is really important in life and just get on with things.

So you’d be absoultely fine about somebody seeking out an assembly of ordinary innoffensive Muslims, in order to serenade with a chorus of

“Mohammed was a paedophile, la la la la?”

The Irie,

I have been reading and contributing to this site for some time now and I disagree that “David T is significantly motivated by the desire to wind up ordinary working class Muslims” as you claim. I do see him motivated to expose the Muslim Council of Britain for what that organisation is and the links of the SWP and other parts of the left with the Muslim Brotherhood.

Deborah Fink’s actions seem less to do with supporting Palestinians as to do with winding up ordinary Jews. Volunteering to teach opera to Palestinian kids would be helping the Palestinians culturally, turning up at an event organised by the mainstream British Jewish community to sing songs denouncing Israel does nothing for the Palestinians. She simply likes the attention.

Of course not David – I’m not saying that. I’m saying we should have one standard and apply it fairly to everyone, which means you can’t complain about this if you defended the cartoons, and argued for a “right to offend”.

For another thing, your example is not a political statement – it has no purpose but to offend. Fink’s statement, whether or not offensive, was political in nature.

Mikey – can you honestly be that dim? Please re-read what I wrote. I did not say that was my view – I gave it as a hypothetical counter example to demonstrate the hypocrisy of his earlier sentence.

I don’t see such a big difference.

That doesn’t mean there ain’t one, just that you’re being deliberately obtuse. There’s a difference between not to venerating a 1,500 year old historical personage and accusing members of a certain nationality/ethnicty/religion of specfic crimes because of this identity. DF is free to show her botty, but to expect Zionists to meekly accept her histrionics is a breech of their free speech. Then again, they’re Zionists, so what do you care?

Really Alec – the right not to have to listen to someone is the right to free speech? Curious argument.

I’m always astonished when TheIrie makes such points, as for the particular instance, comparably (and given the nature of the strong feelings invoked) I thought Ms. Fink was treated rather well by passers by.

in other circumstances, suppose a day commemorating some British National hero had Ms. Fink seen fit to disrupt an event comprising thousands of British “patriots”, then the police would have picked up a rather bruised and bloody individual rather than someone who has just been called a nasty name, not that TheIrie would see that difference?

I’d recommend TheIrie (for the sake of freedom of speech) trying that stunt out in the Six counties near a Orange march and afterwards we’ll pick up the pieces.

So all in all Ms. Fink wasn’t treated too harshly by supporters of the Salute Israel event, probably better than others might.

Ms. Fink merely seems to be a provocative individual (not that TheIrie would even troubled to know that), hell bent on some personal form of salvation by venting at Israel and “Zionists”.

personally I think she’s a troubled individual who should be given as much care in the community as she can take, and not taken seriously politically for the obvious reason that she isn’t a serious person, rather one needing a lot of care.

I think she was stopped by police because they considered her behaviour in that place would cause disorder. In other words it was because of public safety, and not related to free speech. People who want to be rude about Israel are fully protected in this country. Calling the police fascist, whilst being protected by them from possible retaliation by those she was offending, shows that Deborah Fink is an obnoxious ignoramus.

jr – what are you saying – that she would have been lynched by the angry mob? That’s not very on message is it – perhaps you should re-think.

No I’m not saying that. You twat.

My bad. I thought that was exactly what you were saying.

The Irie,

In this instance I did take you out of context. I put my fingers to the keyboard before I had read your post properly. I have now re-read your post and seen the error of my ways.

For another thing, your example is not a political statement – it has no purpose but to offend. Fink’s statement, whether or not offensive, was political in nature.

It would be very easy to present a chant of

“Mohammed was a paedophile la la la la”

as a political statement. One would simply need to say that you were protesting child marriages in the Muslim world, which are specifically legislated for on the basis that theocrats believe that Mohammed had sex with Aisha when she was very young.

Now, I think I’d have little problem with a person demonstrating against child marriages at a meeting of Iranian diplomats, or outside the Saudi embassy. Similarly, I have little problem with somebody making the argument that that particular interpretation of the Quran/Hadiths is a ’cause’ of child marriages.

But there’s a world of difference between that sort of activity, and somebody seeking out a gathering of ordinary Muslims, in order to taunt them.

Surely you can see the difference between

- publishing cartoons about violent threats made by Islamists in a national newspaper and;

- searching out Muslims and shoving the cartoons in their faces, while shouting abuse at them?

I’d wholly support the former. The latter would be a disgusting thing to do.

Do you disagree?

The police separate demonstrators and counter demonstrators in the interests of public safety. That is all that happened here.

Yes it is free speech, you pillock, just as you’d quickly decide if I stood outside your office booing and hissing you.

Mikey – Sorry I was so rude. Its a bad habit.

David – I do disagree. “publishing cartoons about violent threats made by Islamists in a national newspaper” – that’s not the case. The cartoon’s were lampooning every single Muslim, that is follower of Mohammed, as terrorists. This is not a debate about Islamism. It makes no distinctions.

David T,
you’re working yourself into a corner here. The Danish cartoons were a provocation and certainly extremely offensive. You can’t deny that or justify it. TheIrie is actually right here to point out the double standards you use when apologising for the cartoons while criticising Deb Fink.

What theIrie neglects to mention is that, as offensive as those cartoons were, the violent responses to them in the Islamic world and among Muslim groups in the West were far more repulsive and unjustifiable. Westerners in the Middle East, especially Scandinavians, found themselves in real danger, all because of cartoons published in a small rag. Further to that, Iran then brought in the Holocaust-denial card, as if by deeply offending Jews worldwide it was redressing the harm done against the name of Islam by a small group of non-Jews.
As far as I know, no Jewish group has threatened to kill Debs nor has a Jewish fatwah been made by any Jewish leader against her.
What does that tell you TheIrie…?

Who was holding the camera saying, I think, “p’lice are terrible aren’t they!”? Sounded a bit like Johann Hari.

As for “Palestinian terrorist cow!”, it was a truly dumb thing to say nevermind all the dreaded “whataboutery” that is usually condemned here, if she had been at a Hamas meeting.

Whatever her ridiculous aspects, we should not underestimate the importance of Deborah Fink and others (including Neturei Karta) in refining and legitimising the ferocious “anti-Zionist” hatred of mainstream Jews and Jewish communities by really serious customers such as BMI (ie Brotherhood UK).

After all, an event like Sundays was not organised and attended by the UK branch of Kach or Likud: it was a straightforward mainstream Jewish community event celebrating the fact that 60 years ago Israel was established, and world Jewry would no longer have to crawl on its knees to beg the nations of the world to take in Jewish refugees from murderous antisemitism.

Fink etc have 2 options –
1. act as a bridge between mainstream UK Jewish Zionists and those for whom Israel’s establishment and survival is a personal and/or theological catastrophe.
2. demonise mainstream UK Jewish Zionists as murdering bastards on a par with the worst Boers and Nazis. (ie the type of people who need boycotting and physically smashed).

Tim,

‘Every time I hear a delivery truck reversing I shall think of Deborah Fink’

Classic.

‘Get out of here you Palestinian terrorist’

Perhaps a Freudian zlip, I sink?

“Mohammed was a paedophile la la la la”

That’s a statement of fact though.

I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t be allowed to be offensive. People should be offensive, if there’s a point in doing it.

There’s a very great value in – for example – finding a group of Anglican bishops who are discussing establishing a breakaway Anglican church, which specifically encourages the vilification of gays, and accusing them of “crucifying” gays.
I’m sure those Bishops would find that very offensive. But this is a wholly appropriate context and forum within which to make that point.

Similarly, I’d happily publish an article here which criticised this schism within the Anglican church for vilifying gays.

What I wouldn’t do, or approve of, is searching out a group of ordinary christians, at a church fete, in order to shout at them through a megaphone about the wickedness of the conservative branch of their institution.

I wouldn’t regard this as a ‘free speech’ issue. I’d regard it as a “good manners” issue.

Somebody who behaved in this way obviously would be more interested in winding christians up, than acheiving anything else.

Ditto

“God Hates Fags” and the Westboro Baptist Church. Christians are perfectly at liberty to make this argument, and I’d stand up for their right to do so.

I wouldn’t support their demonstrations at the funerals of fallen soldiers, though.

Every time I hear a delivery truck reversing I shall think of Deborah Fink

I thought of Irene Papas on ∞ by Aphrodite’s Child.

“I’d regard it as a “good manners” issue.” Fine – so do you think the Police should have forcefully bundled her off for having bad manners?

People should be offensive, if there’s a point in doing it.

No. No and thrice no. People should be offensive, full stop.

reading this thread you could suppose that TheIrie is partially literate? because it’s obvious that he hasn’t read the points made by others

in those circumstances it is normal for the police to separate any antagonist from their prey, because it’s perfectly possible for a fracas to develop and Ms. Fink might have been assaulted by someone less charitable and thus for her own safety she might be moved away

TheIrie, not exactly hard to work out, for us nonscientists :)

The police should show restraint, when faced with a “hecklers veto” situation. They should do this by keeping counter demonstrators apart from the subject of their demonstrations.

That, by and large, is what the police do, and were doing here.

It is a very successful method of policing which allows people to go about their ordinary business, while preserving the right to protest.

I do think that it is acceptable to make the argument that Rachel Corrie was a pawn in the ISM’s strategy to put US college students into combat zones, in order to make political capital out of their injuries and deaths.

I don’t think that it would be acceptable for Morgoth to attend her High School reunion, with a sign which said:

“I think of Rachel Corrie and Pancakes, and smile.”

It’s about time ‘having bad manners’ was made an crime, it’s certainly offensive. I don’t know whether it should be a capital offence or not though. Bit harsh maybe.

Rachel Corrie was no pawn, David. She was a willing and fully coignescant terrorist-supporter.

And it would be my right to stand on the public footpath and hoist such a sign if I chose to do so.

morgoth,

please give it a rest eh? gloating over the death of others is a bit unseemly, and you’ll end up like a mirror copy of TheIrie

Morgoth is sick beyond belief. What a pathetic individual.

David – what do you think of people who heckle the Al-quds demo? I’m sure you support their right to free expression. How is this any different?

The Al Quds demo is a demonstration dedicated to the eradication of Israel

I would think it as appropriate to counter-demonstrate against that, as it would be to counter-demonstrate against a rally in favour which called for the crushing of Palestinian self determination in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Or indeed any other country.

I wouldn’t support a demonstration against, say, a Palestinian cultural event.

David T,

Please can I suggest (rather cheekily) that you adopt TheIrie, then you could sit him down daily, as an indulgent parent might, and explain these common sense notions to him, as it would save a tremendous amount of electrons and electricity in the process?

“I’m sure you support their right to free expression. How is this any different?”

For a start she did not have a permit for a demonstration, which she needs if using a megaphone. She was therefore breaking the law. The counter AlQuds Day demo did not break the law, since it had a permit.

David – right, now we hit it. What you do and do not accept, then, has nothing to do with any principle, it is about what you do and don’t support. Had Fink been speaking against the Al-Quds people you would salute her. As she was speaking against supporters of Israel, you condemn her. That is absolutely fine. But stop dressing it up as principled. You have your causes and you will support them, simple as.

See David T, only an indulgent father could explain to TheIrie that al Quds was a demonstration dedicated to the eradication of Israel, whereas salute Israel was a positive cultural event (band, music, etc) and not aimed at destroying anyone, not even Ms. Fink

not that TheIrie, could see the difference?

Mod – if you believe in the principle of free speech you would support the right of someone to heckle either demonstration equally. If you don’t, then you don’t believe in the principle of free speech. Geddit?

TheIrie

Well, there is a point here.

If you took the view that all Muslims were intrinsically wicked, and that all Muslim institutions were pernicious and needed to be destroyed, and that any gathering of Muslims was an appropriate venue for a demonstration, then it would be absolutely right to confront Muslims in the street and lambast them about their beliefs, and turn up at Muslim cultural events with megaphones and placards, in order to shout abuse, then you would certainly regard that as a brave and worthwhile thing to do.

I’d regard somebody who turned up at a Muslim cultural event in order to holler them down, as an extremist and probably a lunatic.

I’d take a different view of a person who demonstrated against a Hizb ut Tahrir rally which called for the attacks on Jews.

The reason that Ms Fink turned up at this event is because she takes the view that everything to do with Israel is pernicious, and that therefore all activities related in any way to Israel ought to be attacked.

She’d make no distinction between a rally by Kahaneists, calling for attacks on Palestinians on the one hand, and a display by an Israeli dance troupe on the other.

I would, and so I hope would you. That is because, I trust, you are not a lunatic. And she is.

TheIrie wrote:

“Mod – if you believe in the principle of free speech you would support the right of someone to heckle either demonstration equally. If you don’t, then you don’t believe in the principle of free speech. Geddit?”

that’s the point, they are not equal

one is a conscious political demonstration (al quds)

the other, salute Israel is a festival, a cultural event with a few floats

but you can’t see the difference, can you ?

ahh, and now I appreciate why, because you intrinsically see any activity by Jews as inherently political, and as such worthy of any scorn that is poured upon it?

so to you Al Quds (a whole negative demonstration) is the same as a few kids and old people going down the road waving Israeli flags?

your reasoning here is utterly bizarre

I don’t know how many letters a week Ms Fink writes to the press but she has an astonishing hit rate for publication in the national press and even more so in the Jewish press,that rivals Keith Flett. Why is that?

ops, could some admin fix that missing closing blockquote? thanks :)

please give it a rest eh? gloating over the death of others is a bit unseemly, and you’ll end up like a mirror copy of TheIrie

I only gloat over the deaths of those who have deserve ito rhave brought it about because of their own crass hatred and stupidity. Major difference, Modernity.

David,

Are you arranging a follow up demo against Al Quds this year?

“Get out of here you Palestinian terrorist cow”

Well, at least now we know what her opponents are thinking.

No, you fuckwit – that’s what one of her opponents thought. You’ll find other Fink’s opponents here, and the only opinion that has been expressed has been contempt.

Sunny, can we take it that you support Fink’s actions, and that you’re prepared to defend them? Until you find yourself out of your depth and run away again, or tell us that you were just joshing.

Sorry, that should have been “lightweight, Tory supporting, racist, mediawhorefuckwit”, and I omitted the exclamation mark. Moderators! Where’s Will when you need him?

“Well, at least now we know what her opponents are thinking.”

Well, now I know what you think.

There are no Palestinian terrorists, of course.

“her opponents”?

and who might they be? a few ordinary people enjoying the carnival atmosphere, shocked at someone using a megaphone next to them and shouting abuse as the floats go by?

perhaps they were just extremely annoyed that such a pleasant day out was being ruined by a fanatic? possibly they overreacted?

here is a little trial, when there is next a St Patrick’s Day parade, pop down there get a megaphone and start shouting abuse at the Irish

and when you’re lying in bed in hospital a few days later then you’ll will be able to consider the difference between some rather stupid, vulgar comments, made in the heat of the moment, and what other people might do in those circumstances

I doubt that the St Patrick’s Day supporters would be as tolerant as those attending salute Israel, but please don’t take my word for it, try it out :)

Any more suggestions for what brown people should be doing, Sunny?

And to think, I suggested you came across as angry, Fabian!

I actually had an email correspondence with Deborah Fink some years back. She soon departed far from any rational debate, so the high-pitched whining noises didn’t really surprise me. I can’t help thinking that the Israel-Palestine issue is merely a vehicle for and an expression of neurotic behaviour.

My objection to her antics are that they are silly. How can you seriously get up and talk about issues like apartheid, ethnic cleansing etc (her views) and act like that and think that people are going to take you seriously?

The Palestinian cause should be encouraging her to move on to a different cause because she brings down the serious nature of the debate.

Typical zionist censorship – and compared to Mad Mel, David T and the apologists for the apartheid state she’s a sane rational person

I’m surprised Sunny Hundal has the nerve to turn up here.

Good that he did though: we got to see another example of his remarkable thickness. Makes TheIrie look slightly less remedial I suppose.

I wonder if he’s still deleting comments over at Prickled Politics by genuine Leftists but leaving ones up by fash scum like Ken Exile Bell? Wouldn’t surprise me, the fucking Tory media whore. And in keeping with him opposing the No Platform policy for fascists but deleting blog comments pointig out the errors of his thinking (if you can call it that).

Sunny Hundal – putting ego before politics since, um, 2008 minus however many years his poor family have had to put up with the smug cunt.

Mod,

Maybe the Irish-Americans (the extremist and ill-informed and tastelessly nationalist views of a significant proportion of which needlessly extended and exacerbated the conflict in that part of Ireland that is also part of the UK) would be that bothered to take offense, but I assure you that London-Irish would, in general, regard fighting against some nutter as profoundly beneath them.

(I also don’t think it;s fair to mock the clearly mad, like this woman: and think there can be great honour in being mad – Shakespeare, at least, understood that a clown has a purpose)

In David T;s universe its Deborah Fink who’s mad not the zionazis who write this

“One came from a rabbi in New York, informing her (Deborah Fink): “Your soul, my dear, is petrified and lost.” Another said, menacingly: “Hitler killed the wrong Jews.”

Yet another – ostensibly from a Jewish doctor of medicine in the US – elaborated on the Holocaust theme. “Too bad Hitler didn’t get your family,” it said. “With six million Jews dieing [sic] 60 year [sic] ago it’s a shame scum like you somehow managed to survive.” ”

One came from a rabbi in New York, informing her: “Your soul, my dear, is petrified and lost.” Another said, menacingly: “Hitler killed the wrong Jews.”

Last November, a Jewish protest in Golders Green – the heart of the London Jewish community – against the construction of Israel’s West Bank wall was greeted by threatening phone calls, a counter-demonstration and cries of “traitors”.

It ended with one of the peace activists – a former Israeli soldier – being punched and knocked to the ground.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/19/israel1

How civilized zionists are!!

Venichka,

Let Sunny try it out, and we’ll see the result

PS: I miss** sonic, compared to that Jew hating nutter “me” sonic almost appeared sane.

**OK, I am joking

“Yet another – ostensibly from a Jewish doctor of medicine in the US ”

Note the word “ostensibly”.

I believe the legitimacy of every email I get…

Now if you’ll just wire some money to those Nigerian civil servants so they can arrange the transfer of their millions of trapped USD and transfer you a portion…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8171053/

And besides, aren’t you indulging in “demonization” by generalising that these (possible) examples are representative of all Zionists?

I see that Ms. Fink’s friend “me” is quoting from the Holocaust denying site, Rense?

It is a shame that “me” along with other Jew hating cranks are too thick to think up their own material

[watch out for this nasty site]
http://www.rense.com/general48/hate.htm

And she was arrested for what, exactly?

Err… she wasn’t arrested. She was moved away by the police. Read her own account.

I remember when the cartoon row was blazing, people here were earnestly explaining to me that there should be a right to offend. Why doesn’t this apply in this case then?

Who exactly is arguing that Fink’s right to offend be taken away? No-one.

Why is this – because its one rule for us and another for them – as always.

Why is this? It isn’t this. That’s why.

A silly cartoon versus a silly song. Its basically the same issue – you can’t say you have the right to one and not the other.

Again, no-one is saying that Fink’s right to act like an idiot should be taken away. She does not have the right, however, to not be moved away when there is a possible risk of public disorder.

do you think the Police should have forcefully bundled her off for having bad manners?

The police ‘bundled her away’ not for her manners, but (AGAIN) because they wanted to avoid a scuffle. Jesus. This is clearly a particularly hard point for you to grasp, isn’t it?

What do you think of people who heckle the Al-quds demo? I’m sure you support their right to free expression.

Of course he would, you tit. But then I’m sure he would not object to said hecklers being moved away by the police if there was the risk of a fight breaking out. Again – this is the same fucking point.

Christ almighty you are dense.

Considering that I’m mad, my antics haven’t half provoked a lot of comments….

So, I’m mad because I choose to use a more creative medium to protest -singing rather than chanting, but you think the hag who was shrieking ‘Palestinian terrorist cow’ was sane? And who was being violent? It wasn’t me. And why shouldn’t I scream when the police were bundling me?

Calling me mad is a projection – anyone who can justify what Israel is doing has something wrong with them, be it denial or psychosis. It is also a way of dismissing me as you don’t like my message. Undermining one’s opponents is a comment tactic used by people who have lost the argument, which you Zionists have.

You might think I’m a minority among Jews, but you Zionists are in the minority when it comes to world opinion.

And yes, I do get a lot of letters published, which shows that newspaper editors do take what I have to say seriously. Comedians are usually serious underneath and humour is a powerful way of getting a message across. But you lot have no sense of humour, (I can’t believe that you took the bide ride joke seriously!). I might add, that I also use humour as a means of showing that I don’t take YOU seriously.

Incidentally, I’m glad that I spoilt some people’s fun and disrupted the parade. That was my intention. I thought it was an insult to the Palestinians that everyone could jump up and down saluting Israel when it has turned Gaza into a Warsaw ghetto and the West Bank into bantustans. I really did not see why the parade should go smoothly as if everything was fine. I wanted to burst your little bubble of denial.

Lastly, I am fairly slim and have a small frame, so I don’t know why anyone should think I’m sturdy….

“I thought it was an insult to the Palestinians that everyone could jump up and down saluting Israel when it has turned Gaza into a Warsaw ghetto.”

This comparison just confirms that you are either mad or a fool.

perhaps they were just extremely annoyed that such a pleasant day out was being ruined by a fanatic? possibly they overreacted?

modernity – my point, I guess which you missed, was that its easy to use one person as an example to say – oh look, they’re all mad. I see that on this blog a lot when pictures of anti-war marches are put up and the sole nutter carrying something silly is highlighted and people gleefully claim – “oh look the moonbats are out in force…” yada yada. Yes, it is just one person. It would be good if people also took that into account when the opposite was the case.

And bizarre that David T said nothing of the woman who clearly called her a palestinian terrorist cow at the first instance. I certainly do not call people terrorists unless there’s a legitimate reason and wouldn’t condone such behaviour either. When you give the Irish example, is your point that their reaction is justified?

Oh, and I’m mightly amused that the bunch of inbreds who re-post as “Hundal School of Media” every time I say something are still as energetic as ever on this blog and the crackhead’s blog. I like haters, they make me feel important. Keep up the whining, bitches.

“It would be good if people also took that into account when the opposite was the case.”

I meant when a cause that is not celebrated here was the case.

“modernity – my point, I guess which you missed, was that its easy to use one person as an example to say – oh look, they’re all mad. I see that on this blog a lot when pictures of anti-war marches are put up and the sole nutter carrying something silly is highlighted and people gleefully claim – “oh look the moonbats are out in force…” yada yada. Yes, it is just one person.”

Is Sunny suggesting that Ms Fink is a “sole nutter”?

“modernity – my point, I guess which you missed, was that its easy to use one person as an example to say – oh look, they’re all mad.”

Looks like the “just joshing” defence to me. Sunny, you need to learn to say what you think and not the opposite, otherwise people will assume that you’re thick or a liar, or both, as appears to be the case here, once again.

Sunny said

“I like haters, they make me feel important. Keep up the whining, bitches.”

Deba said

“Considering that I’m mad, my antics haven’t half provoked a lot of comments….”

Sunny, meet Debs Fink.

You are both very, very important dears. And yes, Debs, the nations newspaper editors must wait for your latest offering with baited breath. Apparently they try, not always successfully, to withold publication until their mailbag arrives with your latest stunning offering.

Anyway, back to the original point of the post;- the video is bloody hilarious, and that Fink lady (who Im afraid I’ve never heard of – sorry Debs) does sound rather deranged. And a Mel Phillips wig; what stunning wit.

By the way, I have heard of Melanie Phillips – Im sure she must be very upset at the joke. Strangely though she gets lots of articles published in newspapers- not just letters :-)

“Calling me mad is a projection ”

Emmm… no. I saw it on youtube.

“Incidentally, I’m glad that I spoilt some people’s fun and disrupted the parade. That was my intention.”

Actually, I found it very funny. I thought you were the kind of mad/angry/bitch, but have come accross as a “Mad/auntie has gone to Goa and never really came back” person.

Hello, I’m Debbie Fink and I’m FOUR. I came down from my bedroom where I was supposed to be asleep and showed you grown ups my BOTTY. Look at my botty! Look look look. Tee hee hee Ive made you cross now. I’m Debbie Fink and I’m FOUR and now all you silly billy grown-ups are paying attntion to ME.

And bizarre that David T said nothing of the woman who clearly called her a palestinian terrorist cow at the first instance. I certainly do not call people terrorists unless there’s a legitimate reason and wouldn’t condone such behaviour either.

First of all, you shouldn’t shout at strangers in the street. It is extremely demeaning.

Secondly, Fink is not a terrorist at all, so the content of the shout was inaccurate. She is, however, a regular participant in rallies and meetings which are addressed by Hamas and Hezbollah spokesmen, and at which signs such as “We are all Hezbollah” are carried.

But for all I know, she’s an opponent of these terrorist groups, and attends the rallies in order to voice her disapproval of theocratic totalitarian fascist groups, rather than to support them.

Secondly, Fink is not a terrorist at all, so the content of the shout was inaccurate. She is, however, a regular participant in rallies and meetings which are addressed by Hamas and Hezbollah spokesmen, and at which signs such as “We are all Hezbollah” are carried.

But for all I know, she’s an opponent of these terrorist groups, and attends the rallies in order to voice her disapproval of theocratic totalitarian fascist groups, rather than to support them.

-Is there any footage of said dissaproval (in the form of donning a fake beard and singing etc)?

Debra Fink is not a shahada (i.e. a martyr): her antizionism isn’t authentic enough, nor is she moral enough for the great honor of resisting zionazi colonialist racist pigs with her own blood.

C’mon Debra, if you were to spill your own blood to eliminate Zionazis in Britain, we might take you seriously. But you don’t. Instead, if your act isn’t all a ruse for you to to gain access to the heart of the umma and inform on us to your zionazi paymasters, than it’s all about your over-bloated egotism. You’re worse than a zionazi Debra Fink. At least they admit to what they are.

Come to think of it, even were you to spill your yahudi blood, it would not smell sweet like the blood my dear sons spilled which sweetened the soil and nourished it.

Fink: “Calling me mad is a projection” – you mean like your Mad Mel wig? Idiot.

Fink: “Gaza = Warsaw Ghetto” – you seriously believe this? or is it just another one of your jokes? or is it just attention seeking?

Deborah Fink = David Irving would be more a sensible equation.

TJ, amazingly, Sunny has neither run away nor claimed to have been joshing. Instead, he’s ignoring you… so, maybe not so amazing.

“my antics haven’t half provoked a lot of comments….”

Amy Whinehouse also gets a lot of media attention, and most of it is not for her singing. Antics may be amusing and diverting without having any inherent merit.

Erm, Deborah, ‘antics’ is putting it quite mildly. You come across here like a crank.

Funnily enough, I’m not a ‘Zionist’ or Jewish, but I happen to distinguish between legitimate criticisms of Israeli policy on the one hand, and hysterical ranting about the existence of a sovereign state called Israel on the other.

I’d take you more seriously if you turned up at an STWC demo protesting against rejectionism and anti-Semitism on the part of Hizbollah and Hamas, or threats by the Iranian President to wipe Israel off the map, but I can’t see you doing that. Because ultimately it’s not about peace and justice for people like you. It’s not about a fair settlement giving Palestinians a sovereign state and Israelis security and peace. It’s about turning up in public and behaving like a spoilt child.

Slightly off-topic, but again dealing with virulent Jew-haters. Alec, you appear to have upset John Wight on another thread:

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/06/30/a-cheque-book-flaps-in-tehran/

Alec,

Sunny’s first comment: “Well, at least now we know what her opponents are thinking.”

A reasonable person might conclude that this was a criticism of the Fink’s opponents, using a fallacious leap from the the particular to the general.

After : “modernity – my point, I guess which you missed, was that its easy to use one person as an example to say – oh look, they’re all mad.”

So, after I anticipated the “joshing” defence, Sunny’s explication was that he was not making the argument that he, in fact, made, but was lampooning others who use such arguments. Tell me, Alex, is that not as close to joshing as dammit?

The funny thing is, I thought that by predicting that eventuality he might try a little harder or for a little longer, whereas he managed to undercut my low expectations.

I can only conclude that that the lying fuckwit is ignoring me because of the strength of my argument.

Looser, TJ!

Sackcloth, I knew it was the same John Wight who links to CODOH.

“my antics haven’t half provoked a lot of comments….”

Amy Whinehouse also gets a lot of media attention, and most of it is not for her singing. Antics may be amusing and diverting without having any inherent merit.

-at least Ms Winehouse can argue that she smokes crack and that explains her antics…I’m not sure Ms Fink can even claim the credibility of a crack-head to be honest.

“Looser, TJ!”

Eh?

Sorry, I was channeling Sunny for a moment.

Ah! Tell me, what does that feel like?

Like being waterboarded.

Ms Fink: Can you do a childrens’ party in December. Please let me know your rates.

Sunny wrote:

“And bizarre that David T said nothing of the woman who clearly called her a palestinian terrorist cow at the first instance. I certainly do not call people terrorists unless there’s a legitimate reason and wouldn’t condone such behaviour either. When you give the Irish example, is your point that their reaction is justified?”

No, it is not justified, but then standing in the street abusing people with a megaphone is not exactly exemplary conduct, and I’m not surprise she got a reaction, a verbal one

that verbal rebuke was probably made in the heat of the moment (not a considered judgement) by ordinary people, not politicos or journalists (who are careful, or at least should be, with their words)

my point, was that had Ms. Fink disrupted a St Patrick’s Day celebration and started abusing the Irish then she would have probably been beaten to a pulp, not merely rebuked with an ill considered remark

but please don’t take my word for it, try it as an experiment as St Patrick’s Day his next March

you could do it before then pick some major religious and peaceful grouping, say the sikhs, go along, unannounced, and stand there with a megaphone abusing anyone walking by, kids, the the elderly

I doubt that Sikhs would take too kindly to a major cultural event being disrupted? what do you think?

that my point, in many other situation such disruption would involve a person being beaten to a pulp and the resulting outcry would probably be that they should know better than to be disruptive at such events

yet because it’s a Jewish event, the standards are different, a few ill tempered words suddenly take on new meaning, Ms. Fink wasn’t beaten to a pulp, just a few words spoken against her

that’s my point, the different type of treatment in these circumstances, I hope you would appreciate it and ask yourself:

why we would judge such events so differently dependent on the participants? and in particular when it is Jews?

Mod, TJ, I think we’ve seen the last of that punk kid.

Alec,

I think you’re right, also TheIrie tends to vanish once his idiotic points have been demolished rather than say “ahh, I see your point, changed my mind on the topic”

Deborah,

you didn’t sound very humourous: you sounded extremely tense and unhappy. You sounded as though you were very uncomfortable and ill at ease with what you were doing.

You didn’t sound like an opera singer. Any opera singer who regularly turned in a performance like that wouldn’t get very far.

But you did sound like you were someone who does take herself far too seriously.

’sorry, that should be ‘humorous’.

Yes, I know it’s anal, but, hey, at least I don’t take taking myself seriously seriously.

Goateed Tory said:

I like haters, they make me feel important.

Many a true word said in jest.

Just doing our bit to massage the Tory twat’s ego.

Wonder if he’s still letting fascists post at Pickled Politics? Or too busy comparing postcards of puppies to posters for Hizbullah? Who can tell?

Wanna come… cor, come, I have a chopper unlike you middle-class kulaks… to Pickled Politics?

Debbie:

Editors select letters for publication for a number of reasons, but the guiding principal is to provoke letters in response, so don’t get too puffed up about being a frequent flier.

As for donning a wig to impersonate Melanie Phillips in an unflattering light, just remember, she did have a senior position at the Guardian at one point and won an Orwell award. How about you?

Ha, you lot can’t take a joke, can’t make a joke. I’m an artist, I can make jokes, can take jokes. You lot have no sense of humour, unlike me. I’m a comedienne, I’m a cabaret singer, I make jokes for a living. I don’t take myself seriously, not in the least. Unlike all of you.

Can’t you hear me laughing?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhah!

All the way to my analyst.

Oh, and being an anti-Zionist gives me the special power to be funny. I mean, there are no famous, successful comedians who are sympathetic towards Israel, are they? And certainly no successful opera singers.

Being an anti-Zionist Jew allows me to become an artist, to capture the essence of art. In fact it is my duty to purge art of all Zionist influences. I’m writing an essay on the subject, modelled after one of my operatic heroes, Richard Wagner. It’s called

Der Zionismus in der Musik

‘You might think I’m a minority among Jews, but you Zionists are in the minority when it comes to world opinion. ‘

Said the Christian Jew preaching to Jewish Jews to convert to the view of the majority in Christendom.

Said the Muslim Jew preaching to Jewish Jews to convert to the view of the majority in Islam.

But Jews and Judaism have always been a minority, one way or another.

those last two Finks, might be fakes

Fink a fake. A fecking funk!

Um Jihad

“Debra Fink is not a shahada (i.e. a martyr): her antizionism isn’t authentic enough, nor is she moral enough for the great honor of resisting zionazi colonialist racist pigs with her own blood.”

and youre not a Muslim since you dont even know the correct word nor what a shahada is- a person cannot be a shahada- a shahada is the declaration of faith or in modern Arabic a certificate – so you are in a way write “Um” Jihad – no person can be a certificate.

Deborah Fink is a most unfortunate creature. She like the German Jewesses in the 19th century who thought that being Jewish and being artists were wholly incompatible. They sought to eradicate from themselves all vestiges of Judaism and Jewishness and lived in a state of shame and self-hatred alleviated by their immersion in ‘higher culture’. Today one does not need to convert to Christianity to ‘escape’ one’s Jewish origin or background, but there is a need for some to self define oneself against the majority Jewish view or status which, unsurprisingly, has coalesced about what has become the second largest, at least, world Jewish community in the land of Israel.

Deborah Fink has a wholly unsophisticated and not particularly intellectual view of the situation: she sees it in terms of quasi-religious black and white, good and evil, which is really an inheritance from the European Christian culture in which she immerses herself: music, drama etc but which, I think, she does not really understand. She is unable to make any distinctions. She is, I think, intellectually deficient.

It is interesting how she sang to the Anglo-Jewish parade ‘Happy Birthday to YOU’. Her need to define and essentialise those who have any sympathy with Israel or Zionism as ‘Zionists’ (instead of, say, pro-Zionists) resembles how those before her essentialised very much the same kind of people as ‘Jews’ before the Jewish state of Israel existed. ‘Zionism’ and ‘Zionist’ for her is a unique quality of evil, a quasi demon or diabolism in human flesh. The truth is, she probably doesn’t even know what she is doing because she is driven by some kind of pathology to define herself against a body from which she feels she has ‘escaped’. ‘Art’ for her is the analogue of Christianity into which she has ‘converted’/'escaped’, and is the essence of goodness which saves and delivers her. Her performance is an auto-salvific act of self-deliverance (to use a pretentious tautology).

Zkharya

Didn’t you get a lecture on the use of the word “Jewess” on Engage? And here your at it again! :)

Gosh, even more comments! Yes, the last two Finks were fakes.

I was just wondering: is there ever any serious debate of the real issues on this blog, or do you just shoot the messenger with childish jibes?

You might think I’m a fanatic but what Israel is doing is extreme, and to not react to it, like you lot, indicates denial or a lack of conscience. What makes us increasingly angry is the way Israel is rewarded for her behaviour and how hard it is to get our voices heard.

If you don’t think Gaza is comparable to the Warsaw ghetto then you obviously have no idea what is going on there or are in denial. (Mmm… That words is coming up a lot…).How many of you have been to Gaza or the West Bank? Isn’t it about time you stopped blindly believing what the Israel lobbies tell you and see it for yourself? What are you scared of? The truth? Have a look on Utube, at footage of the peaceful demonstrations against the wall at Billin by Israeli and Palestinian activists. How does the army react to peaceful demonstrations? It attacks them with rubber bullets and tear gas, often injuring them. One Israeli peace activist got shot in the eye. 2 of my jfjfp comrades got tear gassed…

But hey, you go back to your paranoid, simplistic little world where poor little Israel, with it’s 4th largest army in the world, is the victim, and everyone else are anti-semites.

“If you don’t think Gaza is comparable to the Warsaw ghetto then you obviously have no idea what is going on there or are in denial.”

You are an ignorant clown. The comparison is invalid for so many reasons – lets start with the most obvious;

1. thousands of Gazans are not starving to death or dying from disease daily. This occured in the Warsaw ghetto with the death toll being somewhere around 100,000.
2. the Israeli’s have not established death camps anywhere to take the Gazans to and execute. This occured in the Warsaw ghetto.
3. When the Ghetto uprising occured, the Germany army levelled every building in the ghetto. Despite Hamas/Islamic Jihad sending thousands of rockets into Israel the IDF have not done this. Nor have they finalised this action by destroying a structure similar to the Great Synagogue of Warsaw, say the Dome of the Rock.
4. Despite the terrible situation in the Ghetto, Jews managed to continue a high level of education and cultural expression. This has not occured in Gaza.
5. The Germans forbid, and executed, people who were found to help the Jews in the Ghetto. Israel permits the UN, Egypt etc (and morons like yourself) to visit these areas and distribute aid.

Should I continue or do you acknowledge that your comparison is ridiculous?

Oniad,

Lyn Julius had no problem with the term, and even you wrote how many Jewish women use the term. Why else did you cite that fact unless you wanted to show its widespread acceptibility? Why are you changing your mind now? Is it because you now find unacceptable what I am writing around the term, rather than the term itself?

It just means ‘a Jewish woman’.

“One Israeli peace activist got shot in the eye. 2 of my jfjfp comrades got tear gassed…”

I got tear gassed in Argentina in 2001, and I haven’t become an Argentine-hater.

“Happy birthday to YOU”

Deb, remember that line from Pessach about the bad boy? What did he ask? “What does this means to YOU?”

Reflect.

Deborah,

you have repeatedly, repeatedly said that your problem is with Zionism and a Jewish state period. Nothing Israel can do can please you, except to dissolve itself. It has no legitimate security concerns, in your view. Which is, incidentally, a completely mad view.

You have repeatedly, repeatedly said, or strongly implied, that Zionism, and any sympathy or support for it is evil. You even seem to think that Zionism, and being a regular Israeli, is incompatible with art or being an artist, like you. You certainly seem to think it is incompatible with having any sense of humour. Which is also a mad view.

‘But hey, you go back to your paranoid, simplistic little world where poor little Israel, with it’s 4th largest army in the world, is the victim, and everyone else are anti-semites.’

Er, Deborah, a very good case can be made for your simplistic view. Having a large army etc does not mean one can stop mass, or even smaller, rocket attacks, or stop one’s soldiers being kidnapped or killed. Or stop organizations sworn to you destruction setting states on your borders while freely threatening you, and knowing it is difficult for you to address their military threat to both your soldiers and civilians without killing many of their civilians.

The Israelis may kill more Palestinians than vice versa. But Palestians kill as many Palestinians as they can get.

I didn’t call you an antisemite. I do think you are confused, ill-informed and not a particularly deep thinker. For you there can only be good versus evil, and not good versus good. For you Israeli Jews and Palestinian Christians and Muslims cannot have equivalent rights and needs, to national self determination and security.

For you the Israeli Jew is the essence of evil in this conflict, and your screaming at him, or her, is your principal expression of Judaism, since you have no other.

Like I said, you resemble those 19th German Jewish women who, in seeking to escape what they saw as the restrictions of their community, into the company and culture of wider gentile Christian German society, then went on to strip themselves of all vestiges of Judaism and Jewish identity, and see both, and the majority Jewish community as the antithesis of art, culture and virtue.

You do not have to become a formal Christian to eschew all the trappings of Judaism, today, in the UK, but you clearly like to define yourself, very, very loudly, and very, very flamboyantly, against the sympathies that most British Jews have. I repeat, sympathies. Not necessarily mad, unqualified support, but a knowledge that the crimes in this conflict are not all on one side, that Israeli, and Zionist Jews had/have a case, and that this conflict is a tragic one between right and right, not good and evil.

But that seems too sophisticated for you. You are incapable of seeing the conflict except as a melodrama between good and evil, black and white, a kind of mystery play, a Passion, where evil Israeli, Zionist Jews crucify the wholly innocent suffering Palestinian Christ. A mystery play into which you yourself have entered sympathetically, acting as a kind of proclaiming angelic herald.

You may even write Cantatas or carols on the subject, singing very clearly where you think the angels are in this conflict, raising to level of martyr certain individuals, in whom heaven takes a very special interest.

You do think that you are culturally wholly superior to those against whom you declaim. That is why you invoke your professed operatic skills, are allege you have a sense of humour, or a sense of moral and artistic aesthetics, but such as a I do not.

That arrogance, that assumption of cultural superiority is the classic hallmark of the cultural Christian Jewish converso, the Jew who sees the majority of his or her fellow Jews as morally stunted or wicked, even, glum, self interested, materialistic, without sense of humour, culturally retarded, while he or she strives to be the essence of artistic endeavour.

Zkharya

It was a joke (poorly executed) on my part – I got scolded too if you read the thread! :)

I have no objection to the word and indeed I applaud your attempt to correct the thinking of the Jewess Fink.

‘If you don’t think Gaza is comparable to the Warsaw ghetto then you obviously have no idea what is going on there or are in denial.’

No. Deborah. If you are a singing teacher, you need some history lessons. Unfortunately, you think that being the former excludes the need for the latter. You cannot sing past history into existence to suit yourself.

Oniad,

I apologise. Things get a bit fraught here. Yes, I registered that on the Engage thread, so didn’t quite understand what you meant.

Deborah,

do you think there are no Israeli Jewish singers, composers, music teachers, artists etc? Or are most of them evil Zionist stooges, without sense of humour, too?

What kind of mad, paranoid, simplistic universe do you live in?

Deborah,

do you think there are no Israeli Jewish singers, composers, music teachers, artists etc? Or are most of them evil Zionist stooges, without sense of humour, too?

What kind of mad, paranoid, simplistic universe do you live in?

Zkharya

No problems. I understand it can get quite hostile here – I’ve got angry with Ms Fink over her absurd comparison as you may have noticed.

Re. the Warsaw Ghetto.

Were the Jews permitted to have their own state, with the possibility of increased land area and a start up package of tens of billions of dollars, if they agreed to live at peace with their neighbours and at least not formally pursue designs to acquire their land and property?

Or did Warsaw Jews blow themselves up in Berlin cafes, or declare their formal intention to disposs the Germans of Germany?

You seem to think, if think it be, that being an artist entails ceasing to think.

Oniad,

indeed.

Deborah,

did the Germans continue to supply Warsaw Jews with electricity, food, water, fuel and medicine, while simultaneously being rocketed by them?

how hard it is to get our voices heard: Like the Independent Jewish Voices, Debra persists in this mythical heroic plaint, while acknowledging that her letters are widely and readily published in the press.

Zkharya, I just say I think you’ve made some excellent points there.

Thank you, Modernity.

‘The Israelis may kill more Palestinians than vice versa. But Palestians kill as many Palestinians as they can get.’

should of course be

‘The Israelis may kill more Palestinians than vice versa. But Palestinians kill as many ISRAELIS as they can get.’

‘I Fink, therefore I’m self-important. I also happen to be both ill-informed and borderline deranged’.

First they came for Deborah Fink, then they came for me.

I didn’t know that “shame on you” was a breach of the peace. Next, half the attendees at Speaker’s Corner will get the bouncer treatment.

“I think of Rachel Corrie and Pancakes, and smile.”

Haha. Thanks for the idea!