Harry’s Place

we will need your help.

And you will indeed have it.

Yep, I’ll give a donation. Perhaps you can get Liberty onside?

All sounds very dramatic David, but I don’t think think this will go much further.

As regards the Rally to Defend Freedom of Religion, Conscience and Thought - it sounds reasonable enough. Of course, if a rally is large, or at least reasonably so, you can’t really expect to agree with everybody on it. Moreover, it would be unfair to paint all the Muslims attending as Islamists. British Muslims do demonstrate yes, as Muslims, but HP must not fall into the trap of assuming or suggesting that they are all in league with Islamists. There is danger that this then, ironically, develops into a conspiracy theory itself.

Of course, it would be possible to organise a different type rally to defend Freedom of Expression etc. Indeed this was done a while back by Peter Risdon I think. Unfortunately that particular rally only drew about 400 people as I recall.

Count me in.

Agreed

Welcome to Canada.

http://ezralevant.com/2008/07/ive-been-invited-to-speak-to-c.html

You might ask Ezra for some tips on how to fight back.

If he didn’t sue Panorama,which allege that he is a terrorist organiser then hopefully it won’t go much further.
Best set up a Paypal account all the same.
Thats PayPal, as opposed to Interpal.

Count me in for helping.

Count me in.

Me too.

And me

Happy to help in whatever way I can

I think I could get a very well regarded professor of Arabic poetry to provide an authoritative translation/interpretation if necessary.

I’ll help too. Setup a Paypal account, I’ll stuff some cash your way.

What about the solicitor, Dean & Dean, though, who thinks the best way to assist their client is to follow through with such crap, rather than just patting them on the head and telling them to calm down? Would you ever use them for anything?

You’re a lawyer. How does this nonsense get so far?

In.

I’m in with a donation if required. Keep us informed.

I promise any help and support I can give.

Mr Sawalha takes offence about perceived notions of anti-semitism. If he is so offended why doesn’t he issue a statement stating that all Jews and Muslims are equals? If he can’t bring himself to praise Jews as being equal to Palestinians and Muslims that kind of damages his stance I would have thought.

Happy to help with a (perforce) small donation.

Much as I hate enriching British libel lawyers, count me in for a few pounds.

Hmm, Dean and Dean solicitors? You mean these people: http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2008/1513.html

As a Tory it is great to hear those on the left with the balls to stand up to Islamist bullying for once. Good luck and keep up the blog!

David: Dean & Dean sound lovely. According to
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/26/law.discriminationatwork

they “represent(s) Middle Eastern governments.” I wonder which ones.

That letter from Dean and Dean, with its missing apology template, missing apostrophe and erroneous reference to a “Dave T”, gives the impression of having been dashed out in great haste on a very limited budget. Maybe Sawalha isn’t serious.

I don’t know if it matters anymore, but the word translated as evil (wabeel - W, B, Y, L) uses the same Arabic letters as the word for lobby (loobi - L, W, B, Y). The usual word for evil in Arabic is “soo”, so they may well have used “wabeel” as a play on words. But, if the phrase did literally read out as “Jewish evil”, I don’t think they have any case, since what was alleged was technically true, even if the play on words would have been lost to anyone not familiar with modern media Arabic (since loobi obviously isn’t Arabic).

Count me in too.

“What about the solicitor, Dean & Dean, though, who thinks the best way to assist their client is to follow through with such crap, rather than just patting them on the head and telling them to calm down? Would you ever use them for anything? “

Oh, I think by the time this is over, anyone who Googles them will get a full picture of their worth.

What Mr Sawalha is objecting to is not the reporting of his activism in Hamas. It is the suggestion that he is a racist. That is very telling.

A bit like Redgrave vs. Socialist Organiser, when Vanessa Redgrave (as most well-known member of the then “Workers’ Revolutionary Party”) sued for libel over the suggestion that her party was “like the Moonies” and not over claims (later proven) that her political outfit was funded from Tripoli and Baghdad. http://www.workersliberty.org/node/997

Alas the socialrepublic’s millions aren’t what they used to be, but what i can spare is yours. Hit them right in the ovaries, Comrade T

Sawalha obviously regrets that he doesn’t have an Islamic state to make people who disagree with him really suffer!

This moderate/extremist stuff. Yuk. Reminds of the James Bond movie where one type says, “I abhor violence myself” pause, “But my friend here, Mr…he’s…”

What’s with this bogus rally to Defend Freedom of Religion, Conscience and Thought? With the British Muslim Initiative trying to close down freedom of thought from its foundation, and the rest of the platform being a bunch of shifty bowers-and-scrapers to religious bullies to say the least.

Best of luck against this dreck.

Yes, will contribute.

This is really quite amusing. So, if it goes to the wire, it’s basically going to come down to whether or not the BMI can demonstrate that DaveM’s translation of the original was unreasonable and hence malevolent. The background to Hamas etc is surely not directly relevant to the case.

TheIrie: Thanks for the legal advice. My advice to you: Stick to the chalk.

It is directly relevant to two issues:

1. Whether it was reasonable to assume that Mr Sawalha would use a phrase like “Evil Jew”

2. Damages

Count me in as well. I have linked to this piece and asked my readers to help where they can.

I will contribute to any fighting fund, if it is needed.

Mark

Where do I donate too?

Thank you to everybody for the offers of support.

The main support we need at this stage is moral, rather than financial.

If we do have to fight a legal battle over this, no doubt, a fund will be set up.

It is directly relevant to two issues:

1. Whether it was reasonable to assume that Mr Sawalha would use a phrase like “Evil Jew”

- In that case, isn’t your background also relevant, as in, whether it was reasonable to assume you and Dave M would malevolently misrepresent a Muslim organisation. In other words, if you bring up the charter, which the BMI didn’t write, might not the BMI bring up the HP archives. In said archives they will not find explicitly racists statements from you, but they will from you’re commenter’s (ref Morgoth’s recent comments about burying Muslims in pig skins, and so on). If the BMI is guiltly by association with the Hamas charter, are you not similarly associated with both individual comments here, and what one could easily characterise as a broad trend of unchallenged racism in the comments?

2. Damages
I don’t know what this means, can you explain. Or, ami, insult my ignorance if you prefer.

It means that Mr Sawalha, a fugitive Hamas commander, has no reputation to damage.

I’m in.

Ok - but what about my first point.

I allow you to comment here, TheIrie.

That doesn’t mean that I share your tolerance of anti-jewish racism. Nor does it mean that I endorse your soft soaping of racist genocidal terrorist organisations. It just means that I maintain an open blog, where people are entitled to express their views, and others are able to argue against them.

Now, I’m not planning to discuss this with you on this thread, so save it for another day.

(ref Morgoth’s recent comments about burying Muslims in pig skins, and so on)

Burying dead Islamist Terrorists in pigskins is racist?

You don’t know what the fucking word means, TheIrie. You’re also serially dishonest.

I also want to bury dead Christian Fanatics in male semen. And dead Hindu fanatics in cow skin. Is that also racist as well, TheIrie?

I’ll help

Fair enough, but I’m simply suggesting that Mohammed Sawalha’s connection with the Hamas charter, which you make a big deal of, is about as tenuous or untenuous as your association with the general drift of the attitudes on this blog. I can’t see how, if you are not responsible for this, Sawalha is responsible for a 20 year old document.

Me too. The entertainment value of the “zaniness” of this firm of solicitors is priceless. Most amusing is why the Iranian-born solicitor at Messrs. Dean and Dean is “known as Sean.”

Also me.

“I’ll help”

And me.

There was a time when I’d have tried to get a resolution through the Labour Party GC, but sadly, can’t see it happening now.

Still, perhaps others in a less “PC” area could have a go?

Moral support, always. You need any harder currency, let us know.

I will also make a donation for your legal costs.

@TheIrie

Are you going to make a donation?

Or does the aggrievement of a Hamas member (as the result of an accidental mistranslation) trump freedom of speech rights for you?

I’ll help too. Setup a Paypal account, I’ll stuff some cash your way.

Blimey, there are some generous/gullible folk here today. I am sure its tempting for David T to open an account and let the money roll in!

I am glad to see that he’s going to wait and see first.

I’m simply suggesting that Mohammed Sawalha’s connection with the Hamas charter, which you make a big deal of, is about as tenuous or untenuous as your association with the general drift of the attitudes on this blog

Sawalha is a senior activist in Hamas. He is a fundraiser for that organisation.

How does that make his connection to the Hamas charter as ‘tenuous’ as David T’s relation to any old tosser who posts a comment here?

Jesus.

TheIrie
If the BMI is guiltly by association with the Hamas charter, are you not similarly associated with both individual comments here, and what one could easily characterise as a broad trend of unchallenged racism in the comments?

Nice illogical attempt to muddy the water.

Mr Sawalha belongs to a racist organisation whose charter is explicitly and unambiguously racist. He has signed up to those racist beliefs and ambitions. His fellow Hamas and Moslem brotherhood cronies have done the same. They are so odiously repellent that they need to create front organisations to disguise their racist ambitions.

I wasn’t aware that there was any charter for Harry’s Place (at least I don’t remember ever seeing one — maybe I signed it in a dream). David T. simply runs a blog that anyone can read, and almost anyone can post to. How on earth can David T. be accountable for what the occasional idiot might say.

I’m honoured to have any opportunity to give moral, practical and what I can in the way of financial support. Just let us know what we can do that would be helpful. Glad you have Mishcon de Reya on your side. I think their track record on cases like this inspires confidence. Hope you end up taking Mr S for costs. Long live HP!

David, you’re doing something right when you have enemies like Hamas. I almost feel that congratulations are order - if it weren’t for the bother of Britain’s easy to abuse torte system.

And I must say that TheIrie managed to shock me by being much more of a cunt that I thought he was capable of.

er “than.”

“Are you going to make a donation?” - to which side are you referring?

Joke. No I’m not going to make a donation. It is my view that when it became clear that the comment in question certainly did not say what it was reported to have said, regardless of the reasons, David should have changed his post, and particularly his headline “We resent the evil Jew in Britain”, because what ever else you think about this, we know that that is not what was said. David should have changed the post, but I don’t think he needed to apologise, as I’m willing to give him and Dave M the benefit of the doubt that is was an honest mistake. If he had done that this wouldn’t be happening. As this is happening, whatever personal affection I might have for David T (he’s a nice bloke at the end of the day), I can’t support him on this issue. So, I’m impartial.

We do have a mission statement it is:

“Liberty, if it means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear ”

My enemies include the following:

- a fugitive Hamas commander
- a neo-Nazi former Miss Newcastle
- a Milosevic groupie journalist
- the SWP

I’m doing just great.

i thought hamas were democratically elected in a landslide victory

I’ll certainly give you a donation if it becomes necessary.

However, you should have little to worry about. Defamation laws in the UK are a bit complicated, but you did cover yourselves pretty well when you mentioned your source and then explained how your source had then changed the translation and what it had changed it to. Second, if you’re going to stand by the “truth” defence, you’ll win. All you have to do is show any court an official translation of the Hamas Charter (which your opponent subscribes to). As the charter is most definitely anti-semitic and hateful, anyone who supports it is ipse facto the same.

Dean and Dean sound like a bunch of wankers for agreeing to send you such legal threats. They know it will be a waste of time. You could even report them to the Law Society for unprofessional and unethical behaviour.

“we know that that is not what was said”

We know that Al Jazeera changed its report, which I reported. We know no more than that.

“You could even report them to the Law Society for unprofessional and unethical behaviour.”

They already have their problems on that front, apparently.

I read your link and wondered why on earth these so called solicitors should be allowed to waste so much court time with vexatious litigation. So I googled them. Below is the first link I found and of course it turns out that the name Dean & Dean is just a front for a vexatious firm of Moslem lawyers. (I suppose they are licensed to practice in the UK or employ a front man who is).

It has to be asked, do they lead a charmed life because they represent so many wealthy and influential members of the Moslem community?

Mrs Ben

Below is the first link I found:

March 13, 2005

Met faces claim of Muslim racism
Robert Winnett The Times

THE Metropolitan police are being threatened with an £8m legal claim over allegations that they discriminate against the Middle Eastern community in Britain’s richest area.

One of the leading firms of Middle Eastern lawyers in London has filed an official complaint over the lack of police action when crimes are reported by Muslims.

Sir Ian Blair, new head of the Metropolitan police, has agreed to investigate the allegations made primarily against officers in Kensington and Chelsea, west London.

However, the police may still face an embarrassing legal case at a time when they are trying to win over the community whose assistance is critical in the fight against terrorism.

The claim is being prepared by Dean & Dean solicitors, whose clients have included the Saudi royal family, the King of Morocco, David Khalili, the wealthy Iranian art dealer, Nadhmi Auchi, the Iraqi-born billionaire, and the Hinduja brothers.

Dr Shahrokh Mireskandari of Dean & Dean says that his firm has clients with cases involving attempted murder, assault, domestic violence and fraud where the police reaction has been woefully lacking.

The firm has decided to use the case of a leading Iranian cleric to highlight police inadequacies. The cleric, one of the most senior ayatollahs in Iran, was allegedly kidnapped in Knightsbridge last autumn after agreeing to give evidence in a complicated divorce case. The incident was captured on video and those involved, including a former police officer, are known to the police.

However, Dean & Dean claims that the police refused to collect the necessary witness statements and other evidence and did not conduct a proper investigation.

The solicitors also claim that the treatment of the victim at the scene of the alleged crime by police officers was “indefensible”. The cleric was initially treated as the perpetrator of a crime.

Evidence collected by Dean & Dean has been reviewed by senior barristers who believe that it constitutes a strong well-proven case which should be prosecuted.

Letters sent by the police officers investigating the case say that that they do not have adequate financial resources to investigate all alleged crimes promptly.

Yesterday Mireskandari said: “The victim of this crime is a very senior religious cleric, yet the handling of his case by the police has been woeful. I doubt the police would investigate a serious offence against a top bishop or rabbi in such a slipshod way. We believe this is evidence of racism in the Met.

“The community are outraged at the way they are being treated when reporting serious crimes to the police and the conduct of officers needs to be investigated.”

Other cases which the firm says have not been properly investigated include a Middle Eastern man who has been the victim of bank fraud seven times, a billionaire Kuwaiti who was almost killed by attackers outside his home yet the police have failed to follow up on key leads, and the case of a man who has received death threats.

“The community is trying to do everything it can to assist the police in fighting terrorism, but when they are treated like this on a daily basis many people become disenchanted,” said Mireskandari. “All these cases are just passed from one police department to the next. Nothing happens.”

Last month Dean & Dean formally put the police on notice that it was preparing a claim for damages. The firm is also lining up meetings with local MPs.

The Metropolitan police said they were unable to comment.

David,

Can you refresh our memories as to what the context was anyway, it strikes me that referring to the jewish lobby is different to evil jew, but hardly likely to be used by someone who isn’t an anti-semite. The “Israeli Lobby”, or “Zionist Lobby” would be more normal choice of language for someone being careful to avoid accusations of racism, unless of course Sawalha was referring to the other meaning of lobby - I think if he came to my house Sawalha might rather enjoy our lobby…

Its only moral support your looking for at this stage is it? Thank god for that. Baby needs new shoes etc.

It is my view that when it became clear that the comment in question certainly did not say what it was reported to have said

You really are a dishonest fuckwit. The whole thing was that the comment DID say what it was reported to have said. Then the comment was changed. And HP reported BOTH these occurrances accurately and in a timely fashion.

You know, TheIrie, I get a lot of abuse sometimes on this blog because of my views. That’s fine. I can take that. One of the perils of posting views publically. I give as good as I give back. No one, as far as I’m aware, has ever accused me of dishonesty. They can and do say plenty of other things about me, some of which may be true (*laughs*).

You on the other hand are *actively dishonest*. You’re not interested in debate. You don’t care about facts. You make up quotes by use of selective editing. You quote-mine to such an extent that it would make a whack-job young-earth-creationist proud. You’re a drive-by poster whose modus operandi is exceedingly dishonest and in bad faith. And behind all this is a overarching maleovent hatred of Jews and Westerners that pervades every post of yours. You’re not a secret Salafist are you?

If by some mad occurance, Hamas actually decides to take this further, I really do hope you end up in the witness stand. Because your credibility would be in ruins inside 30 seconds flat.

DavidT

“My enemies include the following:

- a fugitive Hamas commander
- a neo-Nazi former Miss Newcastle
- a Milosevic groupie journalist
- the SWP

I’m doing just great.”

Crikey David, don’t be coy. Which one exactly is TheIrie?

My money is on number 2.

“Fair enough, but I’m simply suggesting that Mohammed Sawalha’s connection with the Hamas charter, which you make a big deal of, is about as tenuous or untenuous as your association with the general drift of the attitudes on this blog. I can’t see how, if you are not responsible for this, Sawalha is responsible for a 20 year old document.”

If I am a supporter or member of the SWP, one would imagine that I support its constitution and ideology. I could not sue for libel if someone called me a Trotskyist. Likewise, a supporter or member of Hamas supports its Covenant, which is anti-Jewish. Therefore, it is not lbellous to call Hamas followers racist. Sawalha is an anti-Jewish racist so long as he associates with the Hamas terrorist organisation and so long as Hamas maintains its Covenant. Of course, one can support the right of Palestinian Arabs to self-determination without being an anti-Jewish racist, but it’s the way in which Sawalha wants to fight for self-determination which is the issue and the organisation he supports is genocidal.

It might be useful to recall a similar dispute that arose when a Liberal Democrat councillor in Chigwell called the BNP Nazis. The BNP complained to the Electoral Commission, which over-ruled its objections on the grounds that it was a legitimate in political debate. I have no problem in calling Sawalha a Nazi for the reasons I have outlined above - he is associated with a violent genocidal anti-Jewish terrorist group.

Perhaps ‘Liberal Conspiracy’ will take up our cause.

Oh looky looky:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/26/law.discriminationatwork

That bbc transcipt should’ve been punctuated a bit better.

Technically, the SWPs charter does not mention Trotskyism - the original organisation was Luxemburgist. Theoretically, the entry requirements are so light, that someone could join who doesn’t agree with a good deal of their programme…(even worse, someone could join without *knowing* the SWP are Trotskyists…)

Dan,is there any way for palestinians to fight for self determination
which is deemed acceptable and not anti semitic by the writers at harrys place?

Dean & Dean’s Dr S Mireskandari defended the Hindujas when they sold 20 trucks with military specifications to Sudan for use in “humanitarian missions.” (http://news.indiainfo.com/2005/07/04/0407hindujas.html)

I believe everyone has a right to legal representation, including Hamas supporters and war criminals. But when a law firm’s clients include many people of dubious reputation and when it is constantly being probed for professional misconduct by the Law Society, one has to ask a few questions and probe a little deeper.

Go Dave M!!! Go Dave T!!!!

More murky Dean & Dean goings-on here -

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2008/927.html

‘It is my view that when it became clear that the comment in question certainly did not say what it was reported to have said, … ‘

- CHALK up another idiocy to TheIrie.

I find it ironic how hamas and other islamists organisations have now added the useful weapon of western style litigation to their enforcement toolkit. So they will bomb us to hell if they can, and when they can’t sneak a suicide bomber into our midst they call their lawyers to shut us up.

This is exactly the same mentality we face with the duality of British Islamists who on the one hand denigrate the wicked infidel state, and on the other hand - do very nicely in milking our social services for a small fortune.

Well I’ll certainly always remember never to engage Dean & Dean. Sleep with dogs wake up with fleas…

“is there any way for palestinians to fight for self determination
which is deemed acceptable and not anti semitic by the writers at harrys place?”

I assume that everyone has their own opinions, particularly on what constitutes self-determination. But for me (I am not an HP writer) a starting point is not to murder civilians because of their religion and not calling for the eradication of a state through violent means. Those who do support this are anti-Jewish (I am reluctant to say “anti-semitic” because there are Jews who are not semites and most semites are not Jews).

What responsibility, under the Money Laundering laws, do a firm of lawyers have if they suspect one of their clients is a terrorist fundraiser?

I’m not exactly a regular but you have my complete moral support and should it be required my financial support as well. This blog is superb and I tell all who I come across to read it. Good luck David though I think you know that you don’t need it :)

Well, amigo, count me in for both moral and, if required, financial support.

And why is it that members of an organisation regard it as a libel when you accuse them of, effectively, supporting the charter of their own organisation? After all, it would have been more reasonable and defensible for Mr Sawalha to sue you have you written that he does not consider Jews as responsible for two world wars or for the establishment of the Rotary Club. This, after all, might have qualified him to be subjected to Newton laws on a way down from a roof on his next visit to Gaza.

I seriously doubt this threat of legal action is more than blowing hot air. As far as I can see nothing you have done is actionable.

While these people are unpleasant I do think we will have to start dealing with them politically. The advantage of Hamas is its nationalist flavour. At the moment Islamic extremism is networked without central authority making if impossible to approach with anything other than hard power (and even that ineffectively). Entering into a dialogue with a tangible organisation may well be a way we can expand our approach to this problem.

Best of luck! I’m right with you fellas! If it comes to it (hope it doesn’t) give ‘em both barrels of the legal shotgun!

Dan,what about non jewish civilians? Palestinian kids shot in the head by snipers for instance.The IDF gunman who kills them could not be accused of being anti jewish.Surely it is still murder?

Maybe it is acceptable murder,because said kids are being killed for their
ethnicity,not their religion.

“what about non jewish civilians? Palestinian kids shot in the head by snipers for instance.The IDF gunman who kills them could not be accused of being anti jewish.Surely it is still murder?”

Arguing which side is worse is beside the point. The issue is whether Hamas is a racist and violent organisation. It is, both in its ideology and in its actions. You may argue that the IDF is also violent and racist if you want, but that does not detract from the fact that Hamas is genocidal and those who support its programme are therefore supporters of genocide.

Re. “Dean and Dean’s zanyness” / the hat-tip -

I wasn’t suggesting that accusing a regulator (or the police, re. Mrs Ben above) of racism is something out of the question (far from it, in fact) - the information in the article that “Dean and Dean” represent many Middle Eastern Governments (I think we can somehow assume that they mean ‘Middle Eastern Governments apart from Israel’) is what I find particularly interesting, and telling.

Looks like you’ve been Instalanchched by Glenn Reynolds over at Instapundit. His advice (as a University of Tennessee Professor of Constitutional Law)?:

” My advice: Counterclaim and engage in deep discovery . . . .”

Fair enough Dan.I am not a supporter of Hamas myself,and your description of Hamas is correct as far as i know.But i am sceptical of the people who run hp, and i wonder if this sawalha bloke is really cloesly linked to Hamas.Maybe he is ,but when David T claims something i go and check the silver.

I wonder if Sawalha would characterise the “Jewish lobby” and its activities as evil. If so, it would seem the distinction between the two phrases is not so great.

I came, I saw, I was conquered. So I’ve got the RSS feed to keep an eye on this nonsense and, like so many above, offer moral support and moolah as and when needed…

Just the latest installment in Islam’s legal jihad.

The people suing you are a bunch of unwashed, backward, tribal nitwits.

Deep down, and as some Canadians in your position recently discovered, Hamas sockpuppets are filthy, clueless two-bit cowards who’ll turn tail and run the moment they realise they’re up shit-creek

Just like the idiots their da’wa efforts attempt to convert.

Like Mesquito said above; “welcome to Canada”.

The ‘genocidal’ aspect of Hamas is certainly present, however in the short to medium term they are utterly incapable of acting on that. If there is a concerted effort to bring them into the political fold there is a good chance this rhetoric will remain just that.

While this may sound on the crazy ‘playing with fire’ side, there are two recent examples where just this happened. Sinn Fein in Ireland and Mandela’s peace and reconciliation movement in SA

Mark T writes “More murky Dean & Dean goings-on here”: Thanks for the link; it looks like it’s more dangerous to hire Dean & Dean than to get sued by them.

For what it’s worth, in case no one found this (I didn’t read the whole of the previous threads), someone posted the whole of the original article in Arabic on the Al-Jazeera talk forum, and Google translatesthe relevant section as: “The head of the Islamic Initiative in Britain, Mohamed Sawalha “We meet today Arab and Muslim community to express dismay of the celebrations of the Jewish community and the dreaded Jew in Britain.”

You’d think that the journalist in question would be careful with his typing, seeing as this seems to be one of his first interviews.

Good luck anyway. If you need a tenner or so I’ll be happy to help. How much are libel lawyers?

Hmm, the hyperlink didn’t come out.

here

No, that’s not right either! Damn you for getting rid of the preview function!

Cut and paste into browser then:

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://aljazeeratalk.net/forum/showthread.php%3Fp%3D1407431&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25D9%2588%25D8%25A7%25D9%2584%25D9%2588%25D8%25A8%25D9%258A%25D9%2584%2B%25D8%25A7%25D9%2584%25D9%258A%25D9%2587%25D9%2588%25D8%25AF%25D9%258A%2B%25D9%2581%25D9%258A%2B%25D8%25A8%25D8%25B1%25D9%258A%25D8%25B7%25D8%25A7%25D9%2586%25D9%258A%25D8%25A7%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Oh whatever. Now I look stupid.

Dan,is there any way for palestinians to fight for self determination which is deemed acceptable and not anti semitic by the writers at harrys place?

Acknowledging the existence of Israel would be a start.

And a permenant end to the bombing, maiming and murdering of innocent civilians would also help.

It’s all a no-brainer, really.

You should be proud that you are being sued by the anti-Semetic terrorist. It will give a chance to have the facts aired in the media and maybe the British people will begin to understand what is being unleashed on Western Civilisation.

“The people suing you are a bunch of unwashed, backward, tribal nitwits.”

On what basis are you saying that? Their religion, their race? I think they are quite the opposite: they are respected, well-dressed and intelligent, which is why they can pull on board people from the political mainstream.

Don’t underestimate people’s intelligence and capacity to persuade just because of their ideology. The most astute and clever diplomats in this world are working for the Islamic Republic of Iran. They are not mad men.

cook

Your last link worked, and it’s worth following just to see the picture of a foot stamping on a star of david at the bottom of the article.

In, in, in…!

Short order cook: the same article (seemingly the same, original version) is also still on another website, aljad.jo

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Falghad.jo%2F%3Fnews%3D342087&hl=de&ie=UTF8&sl=ar&tl=en

Short order cook: the same article (seemingly the same, original version) is also still on another website, alghad.jo

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Falghad.jo%2F%3Fnews%3D342087&hl=de&ie=UTF8&sl=ar&tl=en

For what it’s worth, in case no one found this (I didn’t read the whole of the previous threads), someone posted the whole of the original article in Arabic on the Al-Jazeera talk forum, and Google translatesthe relevant section as: “The head of the Islamic Initiative in Britain, Mohamed Sawalha “We meet today Arab and Muslim community to express dismay of the celebrations of the Jewish community and the dreaded Jew in Britain.”

Hmm. Obviously the Google translator was created by one of those darned Israeli hi-tech companies.

Yeah, the last one was where I just pasted the whole web address without html tags.

Yeah, I noticed that the article is still up there. Maybe Sawalha should try and sue them? And perhaps Google as well.

Scooby Doo and the Dreaded Jew

Gene: repeat after me. “Google? It’s a zionist website, a zionist website.”

Hmm. Obviously the Google translator was created by one of those darned Israeli hi-tech companies.

Or should I say “dreaded Israeli hi-tech companies”?

David T,

This is a case of using the libel laws to intimidate.

Therefore, I suggest that bloggers repost the original article and links to this one. Remember the case of Craig Murrey? see http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2007/09/21/libels-or-blogs/

Dean & Dean, sue one, you sue us all.

You have my full support.

Count me in.

We are all David T.

there are two recent examples where just this happened. Sinn Fein in Ireland and Mandela’s peace and reconciliation movement in SA;

See David Trimble’s robust arguments as to why N.I and SA are absolutely not like Hamas and why it is a mistake to argue for speaking to Hamas on these analogies.

Short order cook: I suggest that Sawalha sues Google for malicious translation

On a point of info, David Khalili is a Persian Jew.

Does this mean that Melanie is in the frame for reporting on this from Harry’s Place?

Can I also suggest you don’t rely on Google translator for your defence, if it comes to it.

Have just been reading Mark T.’s link at 2.01pm to Mr. Justice Jack’s judgement on Messrs. Dodgy and Dean in the “G known as G” case. It is better than anything Hollywood has to offer and I can’t get the Pearl and Dean signature tune out of my head. There is even a suicidal car driver. Penfold - you start talking if you like, but please pay Dr. Sean’s £500 per hour costs out of your own pocket.

Count me in, David. Keep us informed how can we help.

And Fuck Off Andrew Ireson! I hope your bosses at the chalk factory know what an idiot you are.

You on the other hand are *actively dishonest*. You’re not interested in debate. You don’t care about facts. You make up quotes by use of selective editing.

Technically this is not lying but bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Bullshit

Eh? Surely Google translator completely blows out of the water the idea that the word means nothing in Arabic, and that it is necessarily a malicious translation.

Not a regular reader (found you through InstaGlenn) but count me in for support — moral and financial.

I’m in, and fuck TheHeilie, Benji and blahblahblah.

Paypal, David T. I can’t promise much, but I’ll give you what I can.

ami, no two political organisations are alike, and I am not proposing that the two examples I gave are conclusive arguments for engagement, merely that they are two situations that were seen as irresolvable until dialogue was entered into. Don’t misunderstand me Hama’s are a horrible organisation that rely on hatred and anti-Semitism as their recruiting banners. However, short of military intervention in Lebanon and Syria we are left with two options. Cutting Hamas out, thus alienating a large group of Isalmists who want dialogue, or engaging with them. At least the latter choice gives us options for the future

SOC - Sure. It translates the words individually OK. But computers can’t translate sentences reliably. It is the assertion of the prosecution that no disinterested Arabic speaker would translate the sentence as Dave M translated it - it would be obvious that there was a mistake. It is the assertion of the defence that this is not the case. Google translator tells us nothing about this dilemma. But I don’t pretend I can discern which is correct either.

But I don’t pretend I can discern which is correct either.

But you’ve spent this entire thread (and the last one) doing just that, though. Anything that shows Hamas et al in a less-than-glowing-shiny-positive second-coming-of-the-Mahdi-way, you spend an inordinate amount of time snarking and sniping at.

Ah, but Fabian, chalk factories deal with gypsum.

It is the assertion of the prosecution that no disinterested Arabic speaker would translate the sentence as Dave M translated it

No, the assertion is that no disintersted Arabic speaking would have translated which the quote was changed to. Including DaveM.

I’m with you all the way, of course. Morally and financially if necessary. This kind of bullying can’t be allowed to set an unacceptable precedent.

The Irie - I think you mistake the overwhelming number of commenters here for people who give a toss what you think. I also think you mistake the nature of this thread. Now kindly go away.

Alec - can you translate your last comment into English please.

I don’t find it at all extraordinary that the dissenting voice here comes from TheIrie.

given his past performance and general PR skills on the half of Hamas, it would have been extraordinary had TheIrie supported David T in his defence against a repressive libel action.

lets just ignore TheIrie, outside of chalk he’s not very knowledgeable, knows nothing of Arabic, even less of the Middle East and would, I suspect, in his heart of hearts happily see HP lose any libel action.

so let’s ignore him, he adds zero, zip, nada to the debate.

Well, it strikes me that they can’t allege that the translation is both incompetent and malevolent.

If Dave M was incompetent, he would have just translated the word as it appears in the dictionary. I fail to see how that could make it malevolent.

“For the avoidance of doubt, this letter is not a Pre-Action Protocol Letter. Nevertheless, in the event that we do not hear from you by close of business on Monday 7 July 2008, we have instructions to take action as per the Defamation Protocol.”

Wooo. Really scary stuff. Translation:

“We want to hear from you by 7 July 2008 but we are unsure what are instructions are and so we cannot commit to anything more than writing you another letter in the event that you don’t accede to our two rather weedy demands.”

The really just signed the letter “Dean and Dean”?

Is it common that no specific attorney sign his/her name to a letter like this over there?

Penfold, can you really compare an Islamist neo-Nazi organisation with Mandela and Sinn Fein?

By the way, your suggestion of “give them power and then see how they act” was already tried with the Nazis, and look what they then did….

It is the assertion of the prosecution: There is no criminal case involved. There is a potential claimant. And another piece of terminology you might become like to be acquainted with TheIrie, is the “witness summons” from the Claimant to repeat in court your very helpful impartial views as expounded here. As someone else said, short shrift would be made of them, though.

Mmm… explain the joke, Alec. Gypsum (yeso in Spanish) doesn’t tell me much.

Yes, it is.

The really just signed the letter “Dean and Dean”?
Is it common that no specific attorney sign his/her name to a letter like this over there?

Yes it is.

Coincidentally, 20 minutes ago, I was applying gypsum to a small hole in the kitchen floor. Yes, I know it gets wet.

the real question is how best to defeat these repressive libel actions?

I suggest that all blogs repost the relevant HP threads.

if you attack one blogger, you attack us all!

“This is the Covenant to which a member of Hamas signs up when they join. To have joined such an organisation means that you are a racist.”

I can here it now.

Honest! I was just in it for the golf course and the Sunday champagne brunch, all of which conveniently free of Jews or Blacks, (you know how they can be) and then there is the really swell gentleman’s smoking lounge with all the right people - so many business connections to make and no women (or Jews or Blacks). But those are just a secondary perks. No really it was! I’m not racist, and if you imply that I’ll sue.

What a crock.

ami - are you honestly suggesting that I might be called as a witness? Actually, perhaps you could explain what are the potential consequences of this libel case?

hear! To early in the AM on this side of the pond

“…we have instructions to take action as per the Defamation Protocol.”

They have a thing with Protocols, don´t they?

ami,

don’t waste your breath, let TheIrie read a book on the topic of libel laws and make his own mind up.

don’t waste your breath, let TheIrie read a book on the topic of libel laws and make his own mind up.

Ah, but that would require TheIrie to, y’know, read a book not written by Noam Chomsky or the like. Let’s not go nuts here.

Count me in too. Support and money if necessary.

It just beggars belief this kind of bullying - particularly as it’s so clear that the only person with a case to answer re: hate speech and intimidation is Mohammed Sawalha himself.

You can count on my support.

Ah, but that would require TheIrie to, y’know, read a book not written by Noam Chomsky or the like. Let’s not go nuts here.

Have a laugh point, Gene. That has just reminded me that despite the fact you’re usually an uptight oh-so-PC charlie with no sense of humour, I’d still buy you a pint.

Well, I read this:

http://www.urban75.org/info/libel.html

It seems the consequence is a fine. Well, on the principle that I completely object to UK libel laws, I’m opposed to this. My advice to Sawalha would be, drop this ridiculous libel case, and write an article on CiF, stating your case.

And if this case goes to trial, I wouldn’t be surprised if Dean & Dean called TheIrie as an expert witness on Arabic translations.

… and furthermore, I think you’ll find Chomsky has written about UK libel laws, in the case of ITN vs LM. So there.

Brownie:

Perhaps ‘Liberal Conspiracy’ will take up our cause.

Fat chance. Sunny’s recently confessed he can’t be arsed dealing with reactionary Muslim groups any more: his recent outpourings on Pickled Politics suggest he’s more interested in civil liberties issues for “brown people.”

And voting Tory of course.

Now’s his chance to redeem himself, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

TheIrie

My advice to Sawalha would be, drop this ridiculous libel case, and write an article on CiF

Funny how TheIrie doesn’t have a problem suggesting the Guardian - a supposedly left-wing newspaper - should hand out space on its website to a reactionary right-wing clerical fascist.

I wonder whether he’d say the same were it Nick Griffin threatening HP with libel action?

Stick to chalk son - anything more complex than simple deterministic chemical equations is clearly beyond your “black-and-white” reasoning capabilities.

Hmmm. Mishcons or the Dean & Dean Clown School. I know who I’d rather have on my side. But are you sure you’re not being coy about needing cash at the mo? Mischcons did write a letter for you; nice, if unusual, if they did it gratis.

TheIrie:
If Sawalha is indeed a senior executive, or prime mover, in Hamas–the evidence is clear enough at this point that he is–the charter of the organization that he helps direct is rather important.

Your entitled to your pedantic asides, but even an English court would acknowledge the bit about slaughtering Jews and war on Israel as crucial within this context.

Gene,

TheIrie wants to have his cake and eat it, he is constantly rude to ami, dismissing her arguments as irrelevant and any of her anecdotes as meaningless, so I can’t see why she should use her legal expertise to aid TheIrie or dispel his ignorance (which could take a lifetime)

still less do I find his sincerity on this issue to be genuine, as you will remember his recent comments about David T:

“TheIrie 3 July 2008, 2:09 pm

Well, putting aside the question of malevolence versus ignorance in the “mistake”, it is now clear that what was actually said was not as quoted in this piece, and its high time David included another Update: all the above is in fact wrong, and I apologise. Won’t happen though - David is a fantastically dishonest, textbook Orientalist, as proven time and time again here.”

of course under pressure TheIrie will shift his ill thought out positions but he’s not a terribly principled individual and vacillates depending on who he’s drawn to, at any particular moment, in short an intellectual waste of space.

Mod - don’t waste everyone’s time with my posts from other threads. I have been completely consistent on this issue though. I was arguing then exactly what I’m arguing now.

Funny how TheIrie doesn’t have a problem suggesting the Guardian - a supposedly left-wing newspaper - should hand out space on its website to a reactionary right-wing clerical fascist.

It’s worse than that - the implication in suggesting he should “write an article on CiF” is that it’s already presumed the Guardian would have no objection to publishing it. It’s already presumed that the only thing stopping Sawalha from having an article published there is that he hasn’t written one. Naturally CiF publishes a broad range of writers covering many points of view, but it’s revealing that it should be the first place that springs to (TheIrie’s) mind as a publisher of Hamas activists.

My support goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway.

My point was that this dispute should be settled by an exchange of views, in print, rather than a messy and unpleasant legal action. Whether its CiF or whether Harry’s Place allows Sawalha to write a rebuttal, or anywhere else, is not the point.

The Irie: the best reaction would have been to ignore the HP post altogether and the issue would have been consigned to history. By pursuing this further and further, Sawalha and the BMI are digging themselves into a deeper hole. If they back out now, they will look like a group that makes idle threats to intimidate critics. If they continue, they will lose their case and a lot of money since it is clearly not actionable.

Yeah - the relative quality of Mishcons v some outfit no one’s ever heard of definitely looks good at the starting block.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the letter was gratis - Anthony Julius got them to hold a Euston event avec refreshments (and very nice they were too) with Nick Cohen in one of their function rooms, after all!

No joke, Fabian. Just that chalk factories are likely to produce blackboard chalk, which is gypsum.

Ireson (I refuse to let you appropiate Bob Marley’s irenic nature), what happened in the Baluchisan thread? Cat got your tongue?

I wouldn’t call Dean & Dean “some outfit no one’s ever heard of”; a very large number of Judges appear to have heard all about them and their invoices.

Support!

So Fabian, Yessir is spanish for gypsy is it?You miserable Spinozist
idiot.

I feel very sorry for Mr Sawalha

If he would care to come to me for legal advice, I will be happy to assist, free of charge.

Truly your benevolence and kindness are surpassed only by your
courage in your mission to proclaim the truth that only you and your mates are able to divine ,most esteemed David T.

“Yessir is spanish for gypsy is it?”

I didn’t know you could learn so much from watching the Teletubbies. Keep it up!

Yeah, some money available from this direction too if it comes to it, best wishes.

Teletubbies still haven’t explained to me what a spinozist idiot is.
Perhaps a neo-platonist genius such as yourself can?

It seems the consequence is a fine: No, I keep telling you, this is not a criminal matter. The consequence is damages. And costs. Which seem to be an issue with D & D. I am glad you object to the libel laws, TheIrie. We can agree on that one.

I would like to pledge one chair leg,some shares in BCCI,and a copy of Cilla Blacks Greatest Hits ,to help you with any legal costs in your brave,courageous stand.

Contiue with the hard line. Fuck them if they can’t take a joke. I mean, the truth.

You have my full support, and I will contribute to any fighting fund in the event of a court case. David T, your work is fantastic, and I commend you for it - you must not give up, for the sake of us all.

Count me in

Count me in to

Love a good legal battle against numpties

Good piece about lawfare here.

“… while the violent arm of the Islamist movement attempts to silence speech by burning cars when Danish cartoons of Mohammed are published, by murdering film directors such as Theo Van Gogh and by forcing thinkers such as Wafa Sultan into hiding out of fear of her life, the lawful arm is skilfully manoeuvring within Western court systems, hiring lawyers and suing to silence its critics.

This type of lawfare is often predatory, filed without a serious expectation of winning, and undertaken as a means to intimidate, demoralize and bankrupt defendants. The lawsuits are often based on frivolous claims ranging from defamation to workplace harassment to plain Islamophobia, and have resulted in books being banned and pulped, in thousands of dollars worth of fines and in publishing houses and newspapers rejecting important works on counter-terrorism out of fear of being the next target.”

‘I think you’ll find Chomsky has written about UK libel laws, in the case of ITN vs LM.’

Hmm, that would be the case where ‘Living Marxism’ falsely claimed that Omarska wasn’t a concentration camp for Bosnian Moslems. And we know who Chomsky sided with - the genocide deniers, not the victims.

Very smooth work David. Anthony Julius versus Dean and Dean… If this was a boxing match they’d probably stop it. I’ll wish you luck, but have a feeling you won’t need it!

You will have my support if this makes it to court - financially and publicity-wise. I know this would mean a lot of trouble and a lot of work for you, but one can only hope that they are really stupid enough to go through with this. Keep it up, you are not alone!

Whilst we’re on the subject of raising funds on the ‘net, did I ever mention that my real name is Prince Mtubrownie of Nigeria? Email me for your chance to earn a cut of 10 million USD.

Moral support? Easy. Continue to be righteous, and that will continue to come.

Financial support? Frankly, if they’re foolish enough to go forward, this sounds like something that would be too much fun to miss out investing in.

The thought of Mishcon de Reya doing a full-tilt-boogie proctological discovery on Hamas pleases me, although it won’t please the Hamasholes.

They might want to consult with David Irving, though, before they put that noose around their Hamashole necks and start hoisting themselves. . . .

this issue needs plenty of publicity, because the threat of libel action against bloggers will shut down legitimate freedom of speech and set a legal precedence which could be used against other blogs

Surely Olabrownie? Mtubrownie is so Bantu.

I was adopted.

As a quick BTW…

The freelance journalist who did the interview with Sawalha spent part of last November taking photographs on the West Bank, a trip that included photo shoots with two ministers from the Palestinian Authority.

Oh, and his - so far - main professional outlet appears to be the Ma’an News Agency, which is the de facto mouthpiece of the Palestinian Authority and has some rather interesting ‘form’ when it comes to differences in reporting on its Arabic and English Language websites…

http://www.ministryoftruth.me.uk/2008/07/10/source-for-the-gander/

Damn, I could’ve had that hat tip - I found out all that stuff this morning but couldn’t find anything I thought particularly worth writing in a comment. I did find it a bit weird that a jobbing freelance photographer who must’ve only been doing it a couple of years was interviewing Palestinian cabinet members. If anyone could track down those interviews, that would be interesting. Having said that, his Al-Jazeera interview wasn’t attributed to him, so maybe the others aren’t either.

His “biggest selling” picture so far appears to be a photo of some NK types at a free Palestine demo.

I’ve post the “offending” HP article, please Dean & Dean sue me too.

Well if it’s pledges of support you want rather than hard cash you want, I’m happy to oblige. (Though I’d be willing to bung a few quid in support of free speech, fair comment and so forth).

On a pedantic note about this “evil” “lobby” typo, I find it hard to believe that al-Jazerra would make that error on their own back. If, as is claimed the original was a meaningless phrase in Arabic, any half-trained, half-competent copy/sub editor would want to check what it meant. And whatever else you might think about al_Jazeera, complete amateurs they are not.

To think of an English analogy, let’s say you had something that said “X accused Y of making vild threats”. You might guess it was “veiled” threats, “vile” threats, maybe even “evil” threats. But you’d want to check with the writer first as it changes the meaning somewhat. When there’s a bigger and more significant difference, as in the case of lobby vs evil, you really, really want to check.

But if, as Medyan Dairieh is suggesting, his copy was a similar muddle (my misspelling renders the word absolutely meaningless) al-Jazeera would have committed an astonishingly unprofessional error. (Even if it were one individual’s doing). It’s possible I suppose, but I find it unlikely.

Follow Ubuntu, Brownie, and love is there.

Congratulations! Mohammed Sawalha has handed you a golden opportunity to spotlight the history and nature of himself, his Islamist organization, and the contemptible parent Muslim organizations. Muslims like him, doubtless backed by Wahhabi petrodollars, think they can bully free men with law suits, because that’s the kind of thing that would work on them. I recommend you start digging up the nasty truth about Sawalha and Islam in Britain and abroad and dole out one nasty nugget every day for the press to run wild with. Make it painful and don’t accept any settlements or negotiations from him once he realizes the tide has turned against him. Keep your teeth deep in his hide until Islam is completely discredited.

When CAIR tried the same tactic against Anti-CAIR here in America, they soon discovered they had a bear by the tail and found the experience chastening, especially when the defendants in their suit discovered all the nasty little business CAIR was involved in.

Definitely have my support on this David T.

David T I’ve got a ton waiting to help you smash Hamas. Where do I send it.

You have my support, moral and financial if needed.

For the small minority of Harry’s Place readers who are not lawyers, can you explain how someone can sue a nebulous group of anonymous writers and what they could do in the event that they won?

Finally, should we need a song as we man the barricades, can I suggest a rewrite of this.

Harry’s Place - FUCK YEAH!
Coming again to save the motherfucking day, yeah!

Am I right in my summary:-

Al Jazeera publishes “evil Jews” in relationship to a speech by SallyWally. On the basis that he’s been shown by the BBC to be a member of Hamas the HP says that such a comment is in the ball-park of someone who is Hamas.

Al Jazeera say it was a typo and it meant to say “Jewish Lobby”.

HP stands by the fact that “evil Jews” was originally reported but changed and that would be consistent with the established Antisemitic credentials of Hamas and its members/operatives.

SallyWally objects because it characterises him as an Antisemite.

HP asserts that being a member of Hamas IS being an Antisemite.

End.

On the basis of my being accurate then it is difficult to see how his reputation has been defamed. More like exposed. Someone dared to say that SallyWally is naked.

If this goes to court then if we establish that SallyWally is a member of Hamas then he would clearly be a member of a proscribed and banned terrorist group. In that case no-one from the Government or Establishment should be dealing with him.

David, you turned t’other cheek. Sawalah tried to kick your head off. You did so again. He tried again.

If there’s owt in his latest threat which crosses the rubicon; take him up on it.

This question from the Ministry of Truth link -

Was [Dairieh] actually working under a commission from Al Jazeera or as freelancer, and if the latter, did he sell the interview directly to AJ or was it sold via the Ma’an News Agency, which as we’ve already seen, has previous form for adopting a very different rhetorical tone when reporting on events in Arabic than it does in its English language reporting?

is crucial.

Clearly if it was sold via Ma’an, then Mr Sawalha has a further problem.

Seeded to Newsvine. We’re also encouraging readers to offer support! Good luck!

http://neoconstant.newsvine.com/_news/2008/07/10/1655488-were-being-sued-by-hamas-uk

Count me in too. Put up a PayPal link.

those fine people at Shiraz Socialist have re-posted the original article by David T, under the subtle titles of “Sue us too, you anti-semitic scum!”

good ol’ Shiraz Socialist, they don’t mince their words :)

We’ve started a blogburst/blogroll to support your cause. This is as much a war of information as anything, so let’s get the word out!

http://www.neoconstant.com/314/support-harrys-place-blogburst/

Right with you, David. Don’t yield an inch.

Where do I donate?

Regards,

Inna

Oh Harry,

You exposed the actual words used by that vomitus, Sawalha. How dare you write the truth?!?!?

I just googled Shyster and Shyster, oops, Dean and Dean. Frankly, if they are foolish enough to pursue this, they’ll get more publicity than they will ever want… the wrong kind of publicity. Bloggers can do it!!!

You’ve got it from the US, just like we did with Ezra Levant, Mark Steyn, Kate from Small Dead Animals, Kathy Shaidle, and others.

Moral, and once a job comes forth, financial.

I will support you in any way I can.

One thing to think about is a counter suit. If he can sue you for reporting about an insult, then you can counter sue for his hurting your feelings by insinuating you lied.

Continue to insult him with the Truth!

Late to the party, as usual, but here I am. Say if you need funds and I’ll put in what I can. Unfortunately it will be in US dollars, currently worth only slightly more than the Zimbabwean ones. I’ll be happy to support your and Mishcon’s efforts to help them make fools of themselves, though I realise you will be paying a price in aggravation and worry that the rest of us can’t share with you, if it actually comes to a suit. Best o’ luck.

“is there any way for palestinians to fight for self determination
which is deemed acceptable and not anti semitic”

Well, they could have tried non-violent resistance like Gandhi and ML King. But that never crossed their minds, they’d rather send out retarded teenage kids as suicide bombers.

Timesonline calls “dean & dean” a “leading firm of Middle eastern lawyers”.

Note that Mireskandari is a Muslim and “din” in Arabic means religion.

The abuse of process so typified by Muslim victimology, and the disdain of facts and reasonableness, finds its climax in a muslim law firm.

Mireskandari accuses the police of anti-Muslim racism.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article426408.ece

You have my financial support.

I say: I am very much a fan of the British Museum and we have always had the most entertaining visits there. The museum is one of the truly great features of London and displays for all to see the grandeur of the British Empire during happier times. Surely, Sir or Madam Sawalha should not be subjected to such virulent biliousness just for serving as President of the British Museum Initiative, for the Museum most deserves an initiative named for it and what would an initiative be without a President. I suppose that if Sir or Madam Sawalha should resign the post, and who could claim fault considering the vile abuse that has been heaped upon the tirelessly serving president, there is always Boris Johnsons, now that the tennis season is behind us. Barring Johnons, perhaps Robbie Coltrane might be between engagenents.

Happy to contribute if you need to raise funds.

But we need to start playing these far right religious scumbags at their own game and initiate legal actions against them instead of always being on the backfoot.

I’ll definitely donate if you need financial support.

Hamid. Actually “din” or more usually “deen” means more than religion - it means system. It is probably difficult for a Muslim (particularly an Arab) to appreciate the difference, as Islam (faith, politics, law, fatwas, ablutions, taboos, etc.) is the only faith he knows. Wikipedia describes deen (as stated by many Muslims) as “a complete way of life” - viz. it is totalitarian.

Im in for support.

I’ll search the sofa cushions and see what I can come up with. Meanwhile, watch your 6 o’clock.

Is this the Dr. S. MIRESKANDARI, Lawyer, Dean and Dean Solicitors, London, who is a member of the respectable organization the Moroccan British Society?

This society was a prime mover in mounting the exibition ‘Sacred’ at the British Library, a highly-praised display of beautiful manuscripts which emphasized the common elements of Islam, Judaism and Christianity, with the explicit aim of fostering good relationships. The exhibition was prefaced by King Mohammed VI of Morocco, the president of the MBS is HH Princess Lalla Joumala. Her address to the exhibition said:

“Islam in Morocco has always opposed extremism and enabled
people to live in peace, harmony and good intelligence with all faiths and religious communities.” (Yeah, well, you can argue about how it works on the ground, but it’s a good aspiration and it ought to be encouraged.)

http://www.mbs.ma/En/images/Press_Kit.pdf

Perhaps Dr M should consider whether making a fight over what is an accurate translation copied on to a website is a way to damp down bad feeling, or will merely promote it. It would be regretable to undo all the good work that so many people at the exhibition worked hard to achieve. He can certainly kiss goodbye to hobnobbing with Moroccan royalty if he becomes an embarrassment.

It is possible that Dean & Dean are acting on client’s instructions but already advised the client that this was a bad idea. In which case, give Mr Julius at MdR a quiet call and find out what he did about Heather Mills McCartney when she was being as mad as a fish and would not take good legal advice.

How they are connected:

One of the people on the Moroccan British Society, and therefore with a connection to Dr Shahrokh Mireskandari, is Anthony Bailey. Bailey was a policy advisor to Tony Blair and has done very well for himself, as this Guardian article details:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/may/27/uk.religion

Btw, his wedding to the princess went ahead, and now he is one of the key Catholic intermediaries with middle eastern governments.
“The civil wedding of Princess Marie-Therese von Hohenberg (*1972) and Anthony Bailey took place this Saturday, September 29th 2007, at the Palace of Pena, in Sintra, Portugal (Anthony proposed to the Princess at his home in Portugal, as the New Year dawned). The wedding will culminate at the end of this month, with the religious ceremony that is to take place at the St. Peter’s Church in Salzburg (Austria). The bride is the youngest daughter of Prince Peter von Hohenberg and therefore a great-granddaughter of Archduke Franz-Ferdinand of Austria. The groom heads up an international public relations and public affairs company (Eligo International).”
Source: royal forums for those who collect tiara photos.

Mohammed Sawalha and the British Muslim Initiative should get some proper diplomatic PR advice off of Eligo, before taking what appears to be very narrowly-informed legal advice. Their chances of winning don’t look good to start with, but in that spectacularly dumb way that some lawyers have, it does not appear to have been pointed out how very much Sawalha has to lose. Since Dr M hasn’t worked this out in his own case, I’d be reluctant to take his advice on my own matters.

As Dr M and Anthony Bailey are both members of the Moroccan British Society, maybe Bailey would give a quick free opinion under the Old Pals Act.

Eligo’s website
http://www.eligo.net/aboutus-history.htm

I always though that semitic was a language,like aramaic,now there are those that dislike certain languages,but they can not be called “racist”because of it,however i appreciate someone who is willing to stand up to these islamist bully boys,and once you get away from the myopic assertion that there are such things as the tooth fairy,equality,flying pigs and moderate muslims,i will feel that you are going in the right direction.

Robert Cross,

the word antisemitism is a euphemism for the German word Judenhass, if you’re in any doubt look up Wilhelm Marr and try to work out the context of its usage.

What has Kamm then to say?

Look at this not very long ago:

“Dear Mr Belman,

My attention has been drawn to comments left on your site, “IsraPundit”,in the last few days by what appear to be regular contributors. The comments are attached to a piece by the British journalist Melanie Phillips, who mentionsme in passing. The context of the comments (irrelevantly to Melanie’s article) is the Balkan wars of the 1990s, in which I was a supporter of Western militaryintervention against the aggression of Slobodan Milosevic.
Your contributors, instead of stating factually my position on this issue,call me an “Islamist wolf” who “pretends to be pro-Israel” but is an “enemyof the Jewish people”. Beyond these characteristics - which according toyour contributors I share with the Canadian Liberal politician and writeron human rights Michael Ignatieff, so I am at least in distinguished company- I am supposedly a supporter of “Nazi mass murderers of Jews and Serbs inBosnia and Kosovo” and defend “genocide and ethnic cleansing”.

There are numerous ludicrous and abusive accusations against me in obscurecorners on the Internet, and my unvarying practice is to ignore them evenin cases of obvious defamation. But these vile remarks on your site, whichyour contributors will be completely unable to substantiate with reference to anything I have said or written, go far beyond anything I am prepared to let pass without protest. I do not believe in censorship of your contributors’political opinions, but I certainly request that you make it clear on yoursite that you deprecate such libels, and that there will be no repetitionof them. This should be done in your own words and not by reproducing thisemail, otherwise it will not be the statement of editorial position thatit needs to be.The article and comments are here: http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=3845
Sincerely.
Oliver Kamm

And this which was his next reply in which he explicitely reaches for the reactionary British Libel Court system:

“From: Oliver Kamm
To: Ted
Cc: m.hoare@kingston.ac.uk
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: From Oliver Kamm

Having read your commendation of the work of the “Srebrenica Research Group” on the victims of the Srebrenica massacre, I agree that you know next to nothing about the Balkans.

When you make or publish grave accusations against someone - and there could be no more grave charge against a political commentator than that he supports “Nazi mass murderers” and defends genocide and ethnic cleansing - then the onus is on you to demonstrate your case rather than engage in the casuistry of demanding from the victim of those libels that he prove a negative. To make your task easier, I am providing you with the sole comment I have ever put in the public domain on the subject of the late Alia Izetbegovic. It is to report the judgement - which I solicited directly - of the Cambridge historian Marko Attila Hoare, a specialist in Balkan history, on the allegation concerning Izetbegovic’s war record: “Marko could find no direct source [substantiating the claim]. The closest he could get to it was a claim that the Serbian historian Milan Bulajic - a genuine if not entirely objective authority on the Croatian Ustashe - wrote to the journalist David Binder, claiming he had found a transcript of Izetbegovic’s 1946 trial, in which the prosecution alleged that Izetbegovic had recruited for the SS during WW2, and Izetbegovic made no attempt to deny it, but merely excused himself on the grounds of his extreme youth. Marko is careful not to rule out the possibility that this is true, and Bulajic is a credible source, but as things stand, this is merely third-hand hearsay.”
I would ask that you now either substantiate your contributors’ allegations against me or publish a proper retraction within 24 hours. I am taking the liberty of forwarding this exchange to Dr Hoare. If I have heard nothing from you by this time tomorrow, I shall in addition forward it to my legal representatives, Charles Russell LLP of London.
Oliver Kamm

[end of Kamm quote and threat to use Libel Laws]

Will his many reactionary friends on Harry’s Place chose to forget this shameful episode of Kamm when he and Hoare were prepared to use these equally reactionary courts to close down discussion, in this case the support which Kamm gave to the Islamofascist Izetbegovic?

From this you will understand that 4international will never resort to these reactionary Libel Imperialist British Courts. It is essential that a United Front is created to oppose censorship and especially the use of the reactionary British Libel laws to stifle discussion

I’m in, too.

All you bloggers — go sign up for e.d. kain’s blogburst!

http://www.neoconstant.com/314/support-harrys-place-blogburst/

Reading that article about Anthony Bailey explains why the Labour Party has gone the way it has. I don’t suppose he’ll be interested in them once they get trounced at teh polls, as they undoubtedly will do.

Some are very litigous, I was threatened twice with libel actions (over a comment on a product, not political) and nowt ever came of it. Easier to make these threats than to proceed with them.

In unlikely event of action, invitations for contributions should ensure anonymity. I seem to recall from a case some years back that those funding a case can be required to contribute to any damages. I will send you some and sign it with my next door neighbour’s name.

Ruddy norks, teal deer already.

In terms of support, I happily donate a bucket or three of morals.

Dean and Dean? Do you think that there are two good muslim men each following on of his own? (sorry)

To Short Order Cook and others — you can shorten links at tinyurl.com. Cool feature!

We have 30 blogs already, in one day, in the blogburst…

…and yes, Eowyn, tinyurl.com is a neat tool….

Please add my blog to your list of supporters, and anything I can do to help just zip me an email.
http://www.christmasghost.com

“is there any way for palestinians to fight for self determination
which is deemed acceptable and not anti semitic”

Yes! They could start by fighting like men, like guerillas not terrorists. That would mean focusing their “armed resistance” on IDF strongholds, weapons stores and soldiers — not on two-year-old girls strapped into their car seats and their pregnant mother. I am referring to the 2004 case in which Palestinian terrorists (three groups later sent out press releases claiming credit for this great act of “armed resistance”) stopped the car in which this female settler was driving, then shot her and her four children all under the age of twelve at point blank range, saving one bullet for the pregnant woman’s stomach. The two year old was found slumped in her car seat.

This is only one incident of many. The list of “heroic resistance” directed at Israeli toddlers goes on and on and on. This is the way Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aksa Martyr’s brigade fight — by hiding behind womens’ skirts and children’s bodies. They hit an Israeli target then, in effect, dare Israel to come kill their women and children in whose homes they are now hiding. When they succeed in getting the desired effect, they hold the bodies of dead chidren for the world’s media to photograph. There are very credible accounts of Hizbollah terrorists locking women and children into the basements of houses then used as rocket launch sites.

A Palestinian cleric once said, “Israel has bombs, but we have children bombs.”

So, yes, there are honorable ways of fighting occupiers and there are ways of fighting “occupiers” (and whether Israel should really be called an occupier is another question) that civilized, moral human beings should recoil from. I find it very disturbing that too many people — especially intellectuals on the left — don’t understand the difference.

Dear David:

This is like Hitler suing someone after WW II and the Holocaust over what he said in Mein Kampf about how he felt about the Jews - It’s simply wrong and unjust and shouldn’t be allowed. We all know how Mohammed Sawalha feels about Jews because of the fact that he raises money for an organization dedicated not only to the destruction of the only Jewish Democracy on the planet, but the slaughter of all Jews in the Middle East. The exact translation of what he said isn’t nearly as important as what he’s done for the last 20+ years in support of the genocidal activities of Hamas, and what he continues to do for that terrorist organization.

Please set up a Legal Defense Fund. You’re going to need it. As unjust as the situation is, Mohammed Sawalha will find the money to pursue you, and you will need good legal representation. And, like many others here, I will need a place to send a check or call with a credit card.

And, You’re always welcome to join me in the front pew at St. Mary’s.

Michael

The thing is, if a term is as fluid, debatable and open-to-interpretation as this lobby/system/evil Arabic word is, you shouldn’t, in a perfect world, be able to sue somebody for libel for choosing one of many valid translations.

In the good ol’ of US of A. To be qualify as libelous a statement has to be 1. clearly false and 2. defamatory. This error doesn’t even seem to be clearly false! And even if a statement is false, a publisher can defend himself by saying the falsehood was the result of an honest error! To really get someone for libel there has to be malicious intent. (Sigh…I’m missing my country right now.)

The bottom line is even if HurryUpHarry made an error, it was an easy one to make, therefore threatening to sue him for it is a very hostile act!

I’ve posted a short item on what’s happening with Harry’s Place.

What an outrage!

Hamas should be sent packing out of every Western nation. Hezbollah too. They are the enemy, for God’s sake.

All support to ‘Harry’s Place’ on this; the UK law needs to be changed to protect free speech. This comment at ‘Campuswatch’ illustrates a legal problem as in ‘Rachel’s Law’:

“Unlike America, Britain has no First Amendment rights to protect free speech or a free press. British libel law places the burden of proof on defendants rather than on plaintiffs (as in America). Therefore, damaging statements by authors of books on Islamic terrorism (as in the Ehrenfeld
case) are presumed to be false unless and until they are proved to be true - an almost impossible burden to meet, particularly when the assertions involve serious claims and the plaintiffs are rich like the Saudis. As a result, non-British “‘libel tourists’ like bin Mahfouz routinely use British courts to file libel lawsuits to effectively silence their critics in Britain and around the world thereby limiting public debate about Islamic terrorism.”

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/5226

Could UK MPs, trade unions, ‘Liberty’ be persuaded of need to give legal priority to defendent not to plaintiff in such cases?

Fingers crossed, this frivolous suit will see Sawalha following that arsehole Stephen Green into bankruptcy.

We now have 55 blogs and counting on the Support Harry’s Place blogroll, and have been mentioned on Instapundit and on the front page of Pajamas Media as well as some other pretty big sites! The blogs are rallying around Harry’s Place!

Anyone not in the blogburst yet can head to the original page below:

http://www.neoconstant.com/314/support-harrys-place-blogburst/

Count me in.

Hey ya’ll! With ya all the way! Like our regime changin’ syntax manglin’ cowboy in chief says “Theys a little bit of Great Britain inside every ‘Merican.”

like i care
hah

Count on my support.
Anyone who is bored to ars- tears, I mean, of course, tears, with Muslim creeps and searching for a racism-free organization with solid Left-wing credentials might consider joining the Council of Ex-British Muslims. You don’t have to be an ex-Muslim, just an atheist or unbeliever. Their manifesto is here: http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/indexManifesto.html.

Mr Sawalha is an anti-Semite. And if I was British in the UK I would be suing him for it.

Monkey in the Middle stands with you on this. The free expression of speech is a guaranteed right in the Declaration of Human Rights that every nation had to sign to gain UN membership.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

It is too bad that Hamas’ Charter violates this basic rights document.

http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html

Monkey in the Middle
http://findalismonkeyinthemiddle.blogspot.com/

I will help too with the legal expenses for defense. However, is there any chance you could file a countersuit? Maybe on the grounds that Hamas has damaged the right of Jews to live peaceful lives? The blogosphere must stand with you or we are nothing.

Sorry not to have picked up on this earlier; please count on my support.

Someone please pull the chain and flush this culturally conflicting and stunting bacteria away. Only by doing this will we restore our once healthy ecumenical and democrative digestive system.

Good luck with this situation, Harry. It’s bullshit, obviously. I’ll help however I can. Thanks for taking the stand for free speech in a country that should know better. Maybe cases like this one will help convince liberal democracies like the UK that it is our liberty that makes us strong, not when we repress those freedoms like our friends in Gaza. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting in this direction.

i am free, american, and proud to stand beside you.

You’ve got my support and everyone on my email list and forum. The word is spreading fast, but not fast enough right now.

We can and should all be working to get this case into the mainstream media… terrorists and their affiliates are taking over, and trying to gag our right to free speech in the West. We have to fight this at any cost!

Just linked to your article from Muslim Sues UK Blogger

First time looking at your site. I support your fight for freedom of speech and truth in the media.

I wonder if Britain still hangs pirates, including members of pirate organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah. And if the British definition of piracy is similar to the U.S. definition:

http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2007/06/why-do-we-refuse-to-call-terrorism-for.html

If so, Mr. Sawalha has even bigger troubles.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention..i will support in any way possible.

after looking over your website and the op-ed’s on it i would have to say you are ether trying to make into the dhimmi of the year award run or that you have never read the koran
as for your slogan Jihad is what you make of it

2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers
the above is often the quote that jihadis quote from the qurran as well as this command
2:193 And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
pick up the quran and read

I know you don’t want the well-wishes of Dhimmiwatchers; yet, you have it, nonetheless.

Geoff

Do we send chequesdirectly to Mishcon de la Reya and what case number do we endorse?

Brilliant!

We are letting down decent muslims who want to live peacefully in the developed world if we give an inch to reactionary savages.

I was shocked to read that a Conservative front bencher attended the ghastly Hamas organised Islam Expo.

Let’s now have a Judeo/Christian Expo in Iran, to demonstrate Muslim respect for us.

You need to set up a defence fund and involve Liberty, they seem to have instant access to BBC broadcasts on any topic that interests them.

Is Anglia the Arabic word for England?

No, the Arabic word for England is Ingeltra.
Anglia *is* the Hebrew word for England, but I doubt that’s what they meant ;)

Jewish Defense League Unleashes Campaign of Violence in America

By Donald Neff
It was 29 years ago, on Aug. 29, 1970, that the Soviet government newspaper Izvestia protested repeated attacks by members of the Jewish Defense League against Soviet diplomats in New York and demanded better U.S. protection.1

A series of harassments, demonstrations and physical attacks against Soviet offices and personnel in New York had been launched by the JDL at the end of 1969 and continued over the next two years. The militant JDL actions included forcefully occupying some offices, spray painting Hebrew slogans proclaiming “the Jewish nation lives,” disrupting public meetings and even bombings and shootings. JDL co-founder Meir Kahane, a rabid Jewish activist from Brooklyn, later publicly admitted the JDL “bombed the Russian mission in New York, the Russian cultural mission here [Washington] in 1970, the Soviet trade offices.”2

The aim of the campaign was to draw attention to the 2.1 million Jews living in the Soviet Union. Unknown to the public was the fact that the anti-Soviet actions were being orchestrated by several militant Israelis, including the Mossad spy agency; Yitzhak Shamir, later Israel’s prime minister, and Guelah Cohen, a leader of the extremist Tehiya Party and member of the Knesset. The Israelis persuaded Kahane to wage the anti-Soviet campaign. The goal was to strain U.S.–Soviet relations, calculating that Moscow would ease the strain by allowing increased numbers of Soviet Jews to emigrate to Israel.3

A 1985 FBI study of terrorist acts in the United States since 1981 found 18 incidents initiated by Jews, 15 of the acts by the JDL.4 In a 1986 study of domestic terrorism, the Department of Energy concluded: “For more than a decade, the Jewish Defense League (JDL) has been one of the most active terrorist groups in the United States….Since 1968, JDL operations have killed 7 persons and wounded at least 22. Thirty-nine percent of the targets were connected with the Soviet Union; 9 percent were Palestinian; 8 percent were Lebanese; 6 percent, Egyptian; 4 percent, French, Iranian, and Iraqi; 1 percent, Polish and German; and 23 percent were not connected with any states. Sixty-two percent of all JDL actions are directed against property; 30 percent against businesses; 4 percent against academics and academic institutions; and 2 percent against religious targets.”5

The JDL was suspected in two high-profile murders over the years. One came in 1972 when a bomb exploded in impresario Sol Hurok’s Manhattan office on Jan. 26. The explosion killed his receptionist, Iris Kones, 27, while Hurok and 12 others were injured. The JDL was suspected because Hurok was bringing Soviet performers to the United States.6

The next year, Jerome Zeller, an American JDL member, was indicted on charges of planting the bomb at Hurok’s office. He had since moved to Israel and his extradition was requested. Israeli authorities arrested the American expatriate but released him on $1,200 bail. He later was wounded in the 1973 war. Afterwards, the U.S. again requested extradition, but the response was, said U.S. Attorney Joseph Jaffe, who prosecuted the case, “You can…hold your breath until you die cause you ain’t going to get him because he’s a national hero.” Zeller was later reported living in the occupied West Bank among militant settlers.7

Kahane became an outspoken advocate for the “transfer” of all Palestinians.
The other high-profile murder came in 1985, on Oct. 11, when Alex Odeh, 37, regional director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) in Santa Ana, California, was killed by a bomb planted at his office. Odeh had appeared the previous night on a television show and called Yasser Arafat a “man of peace.” The Jewish Defense League praised the bombing but denied involvement, its usual practice in such incidents.8

One of the suspects was Robert Manning, 36, of Los Angeles, a JDL member. He and his wife, Rochelle, moved to Israel, where he joined the Israel Defense Forces. FBI agents said Manning and others were also suspected of being involved in a year-long series of violent incidents in 1985 including the August house-bomb slaying of Tscherim Soobzokov, of Paterson, N.J., a suspected Nazi war criminal; the Aug. 16 attempted bombing of the Boston ADC office in which two policemen were severely wounded; the September bombing at the Brentwood, Long Island home of alleged Nazi Elmars Sprogis, in which a 23-year-old passerby lost a leg, and the Oct. 29 fire at the ADC office in Washington, DC, which was called arson.9

By December 1985, FBI Director William H. Webster warned that Arab Americans had entered a “zone of danger” and were targets of an unnamed group seeking to harm the “enemies of Israel.”10

Manning and his wife lived in the radical Kiryat Arba settlement in Israel’s occupied West Bank until March 25, 1991 when, after two years of pressure, Israel acceded to U.S. extradition demands.11

The case caused critics to charge U.S. media bias against Arabs, noting that a week earlier the killing of American Jew Leon Klinghoffer aboard the hijacked Achille Lauro received heavy media coverage. They pointed out The New York Times devoted 1,043 column inches to Klinghoffer while devoting only 14 inches to Odeh’s death.12

Israeli police finally arrested the Mannings on March 24, 1991. Although strongly suspected in the Odeh murder, they were charged in a separate suit involving the 1980 letter-bomb murder of California secretary Patricia Wilkerson.13 Robert Manning, but not his wife, was eventually extradited to the United States on July 18, 1993, and was found guilty on Oct. 14, 1993, of complicity in the Wilkerson murder.14

On Feb. 7, 1994, Manning was sentenced to life in prison.15 His wife died of a heart attack on March 18, 1994, in an Israeli prison while awaiting extradition.16

Meanwhile, Kahane had moved to Israel in 1971 and immediately became an outspoken advocate for the “transfer” of all Palestinians. His unabashed public voicing of a subject that Israelis had spoken about only privately for so long earned him instant popularity among the most radical of Israelis. He founded the Kach Party. Kach in Hebrew means “Thus!” and Israelis understood that the party’s name referred to the use of violence to ethnically cleanse the land. By 1984 Kahane was popular enough to win a seat in the 120-seat Knesset under the Kach banner.17

At the same time Kahane retained his U.S. passport, which he used frequently to keep in touch with his followers in the JDL in America.18

In October 1985, the State Department declared Kahane was no longer a U.S. citizen based on his acceptance of a Knesset seat and his statement that he had retained his citizenship only as a matter of convenience.19 However, Federal Judge Leo I. Glasser ruled in 1987 that Kahane could not be deprived of his U.S. citizenship since Americans are allowed dual citizenship.20

When Kahane appeared in the Knesset to take his oath, 2,000 demonstrators protested and a number of lawmakers denounced him.21 Within a year, however, Kahane was described by The New York Times as the most talked-about political figure in Israel whose popularity was soaring, especially among young voters.22A September 1985 poll showed that Kahane’s popularity had increased to the point that if elections had been held at the time, his party would have received 10 seats in the Knesset, making Kach a significant political force.23

Such popularity of Kahane’s racist views was disturbing to liberal Israelis, and particularly to their U.S. supporters, who for so long had portrayed Palestinians as racists out to get rid of Jews. Now Kahane was giving Zionism’s critics powerful proof that Israel was a racist state. On Oct. 17, 1988, Israel’s High Court of Justice ruled that Meir Kahane’s political party was ineligible to take part in elections because it was “racist” and “undemocratic.”24 It was the first time in Israel’s history that a political party had been outlawed. Polls at the time showed that Kach would have likely received three to four seats in the coming November elections.25

Kahane’s end came in 1990 at the age of 58. He was shot dead on Nov. 5, 1990 in New York City in a midtown hotel.26 The suspect was El Sayyid A. Nosair, 34, an Egyptian-born Muslim who was a naturalized American living in Cliffside Park, N.J. He was a graduate of Egypt’s Hilwan University and worked as an air conditioning repairman for New York City. Police said Nosair had been under psychiatric care and taking anti-depressant drugs.27

Nosair was acquitted by a Manhattan jury on Dec. 21, 1991, but on Jan. 17, 1996 he was sentenced to a life term after he was convicted in a new trial of involvement in the assassination and also of conspiracy to commit terrorism with Egyptian Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, the alleged mastermind of the World Trade Center bombing.28

As many as 30,000 mourners attended Kahane’s funeral in Brooklyn on Nov. 6, 1990, hailing him as “a pillar of Zion” and “a prophet who has fallen for the sacred land.” They carried placards reading “Death to all Arabs” and “Revenge.” Said Sol Margolis, president of Kach International, the U.S. arm of Kahane’s party in Israel: “There will be revenge. We believe in revenge.” 29

The next day in Jerusalem, on Nov, 7, some 15,000 persons held a four-hour funeral procession, shouting “death to the Arabs.”30

In mid-November, 10 persons received letters threatening violence in revenge for Kahane’s death. They included Columbia University Professor Edward Said, Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and Clovis Maksoud, former U.N. ambassador of the Arab League.31

Kahane’s supporters in Israel also vowed revenge, adding: “Whoever thinks that Kahane and the Kach movement have been destroyed has made a great mistake.” Said Kach member Yoel Ben-David: “I promise you there will be a river of Arab blood.”32

During his years, Kahane had succeeded well beyond most expectations in changing the political landscape of Israel. New York Times correspondent John Kifner reported that Kahane had been successful in the sense that many of his ideas “had crept into the mainstream” in Israel. Dr. Ehud Sprinzak, an Israeli expert on far right activities in Israel, wrote: “Where he has succeeded is in changing the thinking of many Israelis toward anti-Arab feelings and violence. He forced the more respectable parties to change. In the 1970s Kahane was in the political wilderness, but by the 1980s the center had moved toward Kahane.” Today Kahane’s policy of “transfer” is openly discussed as never before and one political party, Moledet, with one Knesset seat, has ethnic cleansing as its single issue. Observed the Jewish Telegraph Agency: “Rabbi Kahane could die satisfied that his message has impacted deeply and widely throughout Israeli society.”33