Harry’s Place

Looks like Timms knows what side his bread is buttered on as usual.

I bet Livingslime won’t pull out and as for Galloway, the only way to separate him from dictatorial bum would be surgically.

David T, what a wonderful job you’ve done against Hamas UK to get Timms to pull out of his own volition. What a blow for the Islamist that the ALMOST snared some mainstream people to support their radical Islamist agenda. “Govt Minister meets Hamas” wouldn’t play well.

What we need is a mainstream paper like Mail/Express/Telegraph to give this further publicity and expose the radicals.. I see Stepehne Pollard has support for you too.

Will anyone be monitoring the sessions and material for hate speech and literature I wonder.

These are interesting times.

Good stuff.

I see that that ghastly woman, Yasmin Alibhai Brown, is speaking. Is Simon Hughes still going?

Winning streak!

Good on him.

Theres a few people on that list who wouldn’t like the terms of a Muslim Brotherhood morality court .

Were I Simon Hughes, I’d be very worried about attending an Islamist event: what with their views on the need to keep society “pure”.

Excellent hat trick! :)

Yes, good for Stephen Timms.

The trouble is: these MB/;Hamas linked groups keep putting together new front organisations. When Timms accepted, he’d have thought it was all about nice cooking, and a pleasant Islamic garden, and building bridges. That is, after all, what they lying say that IslamExpo is about.

If only these guys would just come out and say:

“Yes, we’re a theocratic political movement which is working to create a state in which equality and human rights will be seen as a Jewish plot, and we teach that killing civilians will earn you a place in paradise”

then government ministers wouldn’t make mistakes like these.

One of the Directors of Islam Expo Ltd is Ismail Patel of the Friends of Al Aqsa.
Is that another MB/Hamas front?

I make it
HP 3 - 0 Hamas (UK)

The trouble is: these MB/;Hamas linked groups keep putting together new front organisations.

Fortunately, we have you. You’re cool!

I believe it is.

Here’s Patel arguing that Brits who go to fight for Hamas shouldn’t be treated as terrorists:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/dec/05/foreignpolicy.israel

Here he is rubbishing Abbas and the peace negotiations:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/nov/29/peacetalksdoomedtofailure

More Pro Hamas stuff:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/feb/22/theguardianhasachievedwhat

There’s just loads of this.

Hard for them to keep up; Martin Bright and Murray still on the billing

‘One of the Directors of Islam Expo Ltd is Ismail Patel of the Friends of Al Aqsa.’

Speaking for the ‘friends’ are Azzam Tamimi, Ilan Pappe, Nur Masalha and Jenny Tonge. Chair: Ismail Patel.

Is Jenny ‘Kaboom’ Tongue the token white person?

Also, the conference ends with a bang, no pun intended, the Green Party are talking about a ‘Green Jihad’. The roots of a new movement? Hamas wear Green dont they?

I bet Bob Pitt is upset

Hopefully he’ll have an apoplexy and lapse into unconsciousness.

Friends of Al-Aqsa are largely based in Leicester. When HAMAS founder and spiritual leader Sheikh Yassin was killed by an Israeli missile strike, they organised a rally in Town Hall Square (Leicester Mercury, 27th March 2004). They hosted a debate during the Leicester South byelection in 2004. Their bank account was closed by Royal Bank of Scotland in January 2005, but after a protest, reinstated them.

However it’s important not to confuse the Friends of Al-Aqsa with the Al-Aqsa Foundation; the latter is a Netherlands-based group which had its accounts frozen in May 2003 over links to terrorism but has no particular connection to Britain. The Friends of Al-Aqsa thought the RBS closure was due to confusion with them.

Ismail Patel is the man who put Holocaust Denier Roger Garaudy on his reading list.

Friends of al Aqsa isn’t a Muslim Brotherhood front, it’s basically a vehicle for the nutty Ismail Patel. It is close to both the Brotherhood and to the Khomainist IHRC /InMinds lot but is its own thing.

Patel is fond of quoting convicted holocaust denier Roger Garaudy as his guide to the Middle East. See:

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/article.php?id=832

and

http://www.aqsa.org.uk/Portals/0/Books/Nakba_Report_final_4web.pdf

a book on the “Nakba” full of citations of Garaudy (and introductions by Richard Burden and Jeremy Corbyn, as well as Jenny Tonge).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/11/islam

“Soumaya Ghannoushi will join John Esposito, Alastair Crooke, Martin Bright and Robert Leiken to debate “The Islamic threat: myth or reality?” at IslamExpo in London tomorrow. The expo runs from today until Monday at Olympia in Kensington”

The Guardian, one step behind as usual.

I bet Sawalha and Tamimi take the piss out of Patel behind his back.

No evidence. Just a feeling.

I wonder where all the cash from Islam Expo Ltd goes.
And for that matter, comes from.

The entire event should be canceled by the U.K. govt. Terrorist linked groups should not be allowed to spread their propaganda in our countries.

I think this weekend it will be Sawalha who will have people talking behind his back.

“That’s the idiot who lost us our minister” etc.

We have the same problems here in the USA with Muslims.

For more on the subject.

http://www.islaminaction08.blogspot.com

Are you sure he was ever scheduled to speak? Although his name seems to appear on the schedule it may be a typo. Perhaps they wrote “Stephen Timms” went in fact they meant “Bagels and Coffee”.

Chris,
The far right groups behind this event command about 7% support amongst the Muslim Community.
Thats all.

You might as well condemn all the British because about 7% of us vote for white Fascist parties!

Surely *Unseen* Garaudy must be a very elarned and great man: he’s in the Iranian Science and Culture Hall of Fame !

Patel could well argue that the prosecution for denying the Shoah, upheld by all the legal instances, right up to the European Court of Human Rights, was an affront to justice.

Er, actually it wasn’t: if there is one person who merits the words “utter filth”, it’s Garaudy. And he was that when he was a Stalinist and when he was a Catholic well before he converted to Islam. And probably was when he was playing hopscotch during the recree.

unseen,

damn silly of Jerry Corbyn to put his name to a publication linked to Garaudy, I doubt he would have done the preface if David Irving had been quoted left right and centre, remembering this:

“PARIS 17 MARCH (IPS) Roger Garaudy, a French philosopher formerly Communist turned Muslim was recently fined in a Paris Court to 120.000 French Francs fine because in a recent book “Political Myths of the State of Israel”, in which he contested the existence of gas chambers in Hitler’s Germany as well as the number of the Jewish population eliminated by the Germans in different concentration camps and elsewhere.”

http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles/vaziri_garaudy.html

Great job David T., Dave M. and everyone else at Harry’s Place who is involved.

Chris,

Get a fucking grip of yourself man! Problems with Muslims? Who has a problem with Muslims?

You ought to remember why the Pilgrim fathers landed in the US for a start.

modernity, I agree. Odd of Richard Burden and Jeremy Corbyn to have agreed to do this. Jenny Tonge I’m not surprised about at all, though.

You ought to remember what the Pilgrim Fathers believed, for that matter. They were the Taliban, more or less!

Wonder if Blogs are posting the claims that Mr Sawalha’s British Muslim Initiative are suing Harry’s Place on? I’ve just noticed that Shiraz Socialist are doing do and daring the Islamicist bigots to sue them.

testing … abcdefghijklmnop

I see Douglas Murray is still down to speak on Monday, in spite of his professed withdrawal.

Hope that someone is on hand to give an impartial report on what actually happens at this Islamofash fest.

I’m thinking that all of this may well encourage Mohamed Sawalha to blame the “evil Jew” for the withdrawals.

Oops, my apologies, that should have read “Jewish lobby” of course.

..and of course, then Greesntein etc can blame the Zionist HP for encouraging antisemitism. Isn’t it nice how everything comes together?

David T, I have heard you say numerous times that you dont support a no platform policy. Surely better to face them head on, anyone?

Surely better to face them head on, anyone?

These Islamofash ‘debates’ are nothing of the sort - run and dominated by the worst elements in British extreme Islam, with an audience which probably reflects the same.

I’m all for facing people head on.

However, it makes it difficult to do so if the other side are suing you for libel, doesn’t it?

There’s also a difference between “no platform” (which I oppose) and “not speaking on a fascists platform” (which I generally wouldn’t do)

The main reason that I think it is futile to speak in debates organised by groups like the Muslim Brotherhood or Hizb ut Tahrir is this. They typically set up debates in which a non-Muslim puts the case for, say, secularism against a Muslim arguing for Islamism. The purpose of these debates is to create a false dichotomy: the Muslim v the Kaffir. The message they’re trying to push is “If you’re a good Muslim, you’ll side with us”. That’s crap and I don’t think there’s much point in helping them achieve that aim.

I’ve asked Laurance Robertson MP why the Conservatives are happy to see two Tory spokesmen share a platform with Hamas-tainted speakers. I mentioned noting Labour and Lib Dem collaboration but why on earth Tory? With Timms going, and hopefully Simon Hughes, what grounds will be left?

I’m surprised at Hughes allowing self to be manipulated by this mob. He is normally a shrewd operator.

Dave T: Check under your car every time you go out, won’t you?

Would you like me to ring George Galloways office and warn him that he’ll be attending a front for a far right anti semitic organisation?

Would you like me to ring George Galloways office and warn him that he’ll be attending a front for a far right anti semitic organisation?

George Galloway already fronts a far right anti semitic organisation.

Jenny Tonge lashed out in the Lords this week at the power of the Israel lobby here and in the USA, who take vindictive action against critics, get them removed from positions and prevent them speaking.

Old Lab: I thought Galloway had split from SWP. Blimey its hard to keep up with these things.

Countersuit? In any case, good job, keep up the fight! Likely their lawsuit will turn out to be extremely bad exposure for them….

However, it makes it difficult to do so if the other side are suing you for libel, doesn’t it?

On that note, would it be handy for the two/three threads in question to be stickied?

Er, actually it wasn’t: if there is one person who merits the words “utter filth”, it’s Garaudy. And he was that when he was a Stalinist and when he was a Catholic well before he converted to Islam. And probably was when he was playing hopscotch during the recree.

When ageing half-wit leftists have exhausted any and all ways of fucking up the world, they retire by converting to Islam.

Garaudy became some sort of weird Protestant before ‘discovering’ all the delicious jew-hatred hatred to be found in Islam.

And he still swore by Stalin even after the russian communist party had denounced Stalin’s countless atrocities.

You just can’t get dumber than that!

You ought to remember what the Pilgrim Fathers believed, for that matter. They were the Taliban, more or less!

I shall take that as sarcasm.

As for the list of guest speakers, I see that John Esposito is there.

This little twerp rims Saudi arse so hard and so intensly, his mouth looks like that of a toddler who’s been eating chocolate ice-cream.

Every word Esposito utters about Islam is a complete lie.

Excellent. Truly excellent. Well done Stephen Timms. If this was a boxing match, they’d be reeling and about to collapse to the floor.

Looking at the list of speakers, it really does contain a large number of some of the worst misanthropes in Britain today, from both the Islamist and dodgy-liberal fronts. It’s a concentration of lunacy so dramatic that I wouldn’t be surprised if it caused a rift in the space-time continuum.

I like the balanced look of this debate

11.45 - 13.00 Sponsored by The Cordoba Foundation: Iraq 5 Years on: Stability or Chaos? Lecture Salah El-Sheikhy, George Galloway, Andrew Murray and Jonathan Steele . Chair: Anas Altikriti

If ever ‘making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear was an apt expression, making Islam seem in any way wholesome, is, perhaps a little ironically, it!

Good work on flushing these fascists out.

John P. - you are right about Esposito. Wonder if Yusuf Islam (aka Cat Stevens) will be drafted in to fill the gap by singing more of his sixties hits than “Morning has Broken,” now Stephen Timms has done the breaking. I understand from Andrew Anthony’s book “The Fallout” (he has interviewed Yusuf) that he is a Moon Shadow of his former self.

It’s a concentration of lunacy so dramatic that I wouldn’t be surprised if it caused a rift in the space-time continuum.

Lol!

On the subject of Nick Cohen’s thread that “libel is the last refuge of the scoundrel,” it appears on Yusuf Islam’s official website that he has won damages from World Entertainment Network because they fabricated a story last year that he does not speak to unveiled women. Good to know.

Looks like Timms has been replaced by an ‘Alfred Agius’.

Who, apparently, is the former bassist with ‘The Fixx’.

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Alfie+Agius?anv=Alfred+Agius

Either that, or he’s the Director of Westminster Interfaith, an agency of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Westminster.

Doesn’t really matter, does it?

A better link for Rt Hon Stephen Timms MP for East Ham would be to his own website:

http://www.stephentimms.org.uk/faiths

It tells you almost everything that you could want to know about Stephen, except his clothes sizes and that he’s a Baptist.

East Ham is one of the most ethnicallly diverse constituencies in the UK. It’s MP is no shorter of people who can give him advice on “spot the Islamist” than of people who can give him advice on “spot the trot”.

Anybody fancy a demo outside the venue?

In the name of freedom of expression your server is refusing my post…

In the name of freedom of expression your server is refusing my post…

But not the post you’ve just posted?

Eh?

You chaps are obsessed with these Islamic Groups. Let me say that you people, from the perspective of those of us who are Muslim and are opposed to Islamism, simply do us no favours. I vehemently oppose Islamism as a social, cultural and political force but any nation, Muslim or not has the right to defend itself from British, Israeli, American or Indonesian etc, etc aggression or occupation. You White Middle bloggers should stick to doing what you do best….

I vehemently oppose Islamism as a social, cultural and political force but any nation, Muslim or not has the right to defend itself from British, Israeli, American or Indonesian etc, etc aggression or occupation.

You seem to be missing the fairly important point that both the Afghanistan and Iraq nations are fighting with the British/Americans, not defending themselves from them.

but any nation, Muslim or not has the right to defend itself from British, Israeli, American or Indonesian etc, etc aggression or occupation.

God forbid Israel should defend itself from Muslim aggression though, eh? And, given that most Muslims who are being killed unlawfully are being done so by other Muslims, instead of bitching about America, Israel etc. how about putting your own house in order? The voices of those who are “Muslim and are opposed to Islamism” are pretty god damn quiet.

Good for Mr Timms!

There is no need for HMG to parley with al-Tikriti, Sawalha, Tamimi and other similar Islamists. Nothing will be gained. They are fanatics, not for turning.

For the publicly HMG-constrained, parsing words to pulp, lending them even a hint of legitimacy by sharing a platform is silly fluffiness at best and very risky at worst.

The cold shoulder, instead, is entirely appropriate and likely to be effective over time.

Let them get on with their legal political activities, but no more, just like the BNP.

Anyway, what was the Home Office thinking, back in the day, giving indefinite leave to remain in the UK to Hamas operative Sawalha?

For those looking for something to do this Saturday, July 12th in London, there will be a protest at 2:30PM at the Pakistani Embassy against the ongoing campaign of murder of Pakistani Shias in NW Pakistan by the Taliban. See “Takfiri War on Pakistani Shia” at http://www.iraqimojo.blogspot.com for details.

Let me say that you people, from the perspective of those of us who are Muslim and are opposed to Islamism, simply do us no favours.

How should we who aren’t Muslim support Muslims opposed to Islamism, from your perspective Jabar? As for the perspective of other Muslims opposed to Islamism what makes you think you speak for them? And Jabar, will you be attending Islam Expo this year?

Here’s a naive commentator, number 2 on the Lib Dem MEP list for London in 2010, as in 2005, who doesn’t seem to have noticed a slight problem:

http://jonathanfryer.wordpress.com/

“IslamExpo
Posted by jonathanfryer on Friday, 11th July, 2008

This evening I was at the Opening Ceremony and pre-reception of IslamExpo at London’s Olympia, which proclaims itself to be Europe’s largest celebration of Islamic heritage, culture and traditions under one roof. It’s certainly an impressive operation, running until Monday, with hundreds of stalls, exhibits, gardens and cafés, as well as a rich and eclectic programme of lectures, seminars and entertainment.”

Jabar, is that you (comment 5th May 2008, 8:32pm)?

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/05/05/breathing-in-syria/#comments

5th May 2008, 8:32pm
“This is rubbish and a lie. I went to see this show twice! live and there were no gasps when he mentioned his name. Hamam went onto to denounce Khaddam for his political hypocrisy i.e. how he economically benefited immensely from the regime etc…to applause.

As far as “pains” to display loyalty are concerned, I don’t think this is true either. Hamam writes his own stuff and is the star of his shows. He is a patriot and will be on the receiving end if the Muslim Brotherhood is legalised as the UK/US wants.

On this basis I don’t know whether to accept the rest of what you have to say is correct. It comes across as a Memri/MI6 report using Al-arabiya as a cover for impartiality.

Also Syrian productions are amongst the most popular in the Arab world (and that includes your UK puppet states), this did not come out of thin air. There are very serious issues that Syria needs to answer for but your presentation is purely propagandistic.

Jabar”

But, Jabal, would you be equally happy to suggest that only white people and/or Christians should oppose the irrational chauvinism of the BNP? Isn’t it useful to continually point out that, contrary to the propaganda of the BNP and the Islamists, Muslims and Islamists are not one and the same, and that, in fact, the main threat that the Islamists present is not to Western liberal/social democracy–they are too weak philosophically and militarily–but to large groups of disempowered Muslims around the world? And isn’t it useful for the middle classes also to be involved in this twin-pronged attack to counter the myths of these separate groups of reactionary racists, the fascists and the Islamists?

Sorry, I meant “Jabar”, not “Jabal”.

I understand from Andrew Anthony’s book “The Fallout” (he has interviewed Yusuf) that he is a Moon Shadow of his former self.

Cat Stevens was a total burnout long before his conversion.

Were one to flip open the top of his cranium and peer inside, one would see nothing but a smoldering cinder.

Poor Cat came so close to accidentally dying on a couple of occasions, that he hit upon the idea that to remain alive he’d have to stop living (convert to Islam).

And so he did, and in the process converted this life into a mere ante-chamber to death.

Both the quantity and quality of his musical production these past 30 years attest to that!

He’s not really alive, just sort of ‘undead’.

For those looking for something to do this Saturday, July 12th in London, there will be a protest at 2:30PM at the Pakistani Embassy against the ongoing campaign of murder of Pakistani Shias in NW Pakistan by the Taliban. See “Takfiri War on Pakistani Shia” at http://www.iraqimojo.blogspot.com for details. David ALL

If one is going to demonstrate at Pakistan’s embassy, then at least do so for the sake of the country’s 3 million strong Christian minority, who are horribly mistreated by ALL of the country’s muslim denominations.

Kidnappings, beatings, murder, forced conversions, destruction of property…..these things happen every day to Pakistani Christians.

The worst are the abductions and forced conversions of children, particularly young girls.

Abductions and forced conversions gleefully carried out by Sunni and Shia alike.

Pakistan is a filthy, backward, human rights hellhole; it is Islam at its finest.

John P, I know a few Pakistani Christians in this part of London. I remember meeting several at a Pakistan Association do to rasie funds for the victims of the eathquake 3 or 4 years ago. They seemed quite happy to attend a predominantly Sunni Muslim event, as were other people with no family connections there.

If your wild allegations are accurate, how is it that in Pakistan that lawyers have been the foremost opponents of military rule?

If your wild allegations are accurate, how is it that in Pakistan that lawyers have been the foremost opponents of military rule?

Yes, they’re *allegations*, and very *wild* ones at that!

The treatment meted out to Christian minorities in Muslim-majority countries is just miserable.

It’s an issue HP can’t quite bring itself to admit even exists.

Egypt’s Copts…..the indigenous inhabitants of Egypt….will be holding a demo in Washington on the 16th to highlight and denounce the treatment they recieve at the hands of Egypt’s ’secular’ gov’t.

Were the Muslim broderbundt ever to take power, the community would probably leave.

Killing, oppressing and harassing Christians is, to all evidence, still considered acceptable.

Imagine the crass level of ignorance when incidents of anti-christian violence occuring all the time in Muslims-majority nations are portrayed as *wild allegations*

That’s like saying that 911 was but a *wild allegation*.

Unbelievable.

Calling Egyptian Christians “original inhabitants” is a bit like calling the Welsh the original inhabitants of England.

It is quite true, but is not very relevant to the present situation, and hasn’t been for centuries.

Still no doubt Ken L did not withdraw so all is well

I must be having a senior moment, I thought the former Cat Stevens was a Greek Cypriot.

In any case I think some of you have been spending too much time listening to your Tea for the Tillerman album. Not only is Stevens a supporter of Hezbollah he also supported the “death fatwa on Salman Rushdie. (http://