Harry’s Place

Is Jo Moore available for a comeback too?

Frank Field MP is about the last person left who can revive the party’s fortunes. At least he still has some fresh ideas.

Why should someone of the stature and integrity of Frank Field, be lumbered with the poisoned chalice that is the current labour party. It would be like putting on someone else’s dirty knickers.

I recall Derek Draper at NUS conferences. There are some stories about him there too.

How on earth did he get to marry that bird from GMTV?

I’m not sure who she is - could perhaps Alec McPhearson recommend a photograph?

Cor! Blast from the past!

I vaguely remember some story about him getting tied up by a girl and then abandoned… somebody will recall it better than I do.

I once saw him laughing at a particularly ugly male member of the uber-ugly Militant tendency and making an uncharitable comment about his similarly unattractive girlfriend and possible use of a paper bag….

Can’t remember who helped him up from the floor……

Those were the days - when pissed up Millies would really dish it out - not just play out the online fantasty of being hard-men of the left.

Just saying like.

Shabba Derek wasn’t hit - he was expelled from the conference.

Derek is pretty foul but he showed real bravery in taking on the trots. I did see them chuck things at him in the middle of a speech at an LPYS conference because he said something they didn’t like (that the real name of the Militant was the Revolutionary Socialist League).

By the way, if Tories want Frank Field they can have him. Please take Kate Hoey on the way out too.

‘Old Git’ - he was hit. I picked him up.

And you are right about his bravery in the face of the Scouse Squadristi. They were nasty days after all when they thought that putting turds through the letterboxes of elderly people was ‘class struggle’.

Just saying like.

I thought Draper had gone off to the World Service middle of the night slot goatee psychology spot.
If we’re reying on this, then lets hope the Eton boys are real fuck ups.

Dolly Draper, he used to be called in the Guardian Diary. And Benjamin Wegg-Prosser was always called “Oofy”. Those were the days, when the Guardian used to be quite good and there was no HP.

By the way, if Tories want Frank Field they can have him.

Oh yes, just about the only member of the Parliamentary party who went immediately to Brown to protest at the abolition of the 10p rate. Not remotely as corrupt as Draper though, mind you.

No wonder the old gits of the New Labour party are soon to be flushed down the toilet.

Field was the first Blair appointment attacked by Brown.

Odd in reflection. Even a year after the landslide Gordon was throwing his weight around.

Was a bit of a Kate Garraway fan myself. Trouble is she sounds a bit like George Galloway’s kid sister when you’ve had a jar and looks a bit like the kid sister of the tennis pro she was on the telly with last time I watched. Never seen Derek Draper, but now I know its him she’s married I can’t help sympathising with the awful Piers.

“‘Draper is to be the first appointment by Labour’s general secretary, Ray Collins, to help revive the party’s fortunes,’ The Guardian.””

Yikes!

…and then I realised it’s not THAT Ray Collins.

The one I used to be married to.

Oh, come on, guys! Used to be chair of Brent Trades Council. Chair of his AEU branch…..

(Cue “lLfe on Mars”) theme

“I once saw him laughing at a particularly ugly male member of the uber-ugly Militant tendency and making an uncharitable comment about his similarly unattractive girlfriend and possible use of a paper bag….”

It was a Scottish guy from Socialist Organiser, unless of course he used to wheel that line out regularly.

David
“I vaguely remember some story about him getting tied up by a girl and then abandoned… somebody will recall it better than I do.”
Are you positive it was a girl?

“No wonder the old gits of the New Labour party are soon to be flushed down the toilet.”

Now, now. We’re all friends here! Or something. (Continues sharpening carving knife and reading recipe for fricasseed Bennite, coming to a menu near you in 2010. Well, either that or skewered Blairite.)

This seems very strange. I see no reason why Draper would have anything to bring to the party (pun intended, ho ho). My overwhelming impression of him from days gone by is that he was basically a dodgy loud mouth.

Gordon:

“In certain circles, it was considered an unlikely match; Piers Morgan was quoted as saying, ‘…if I’d known that the bar was set that low, I’d have had a go myself.’”

Really? I must have got it the wrong way round. I always thought that was what Peter Mandelson said when he heard about Kate Garraway.

YouTube features footage of Dolly’s selection interview for his new role. He clinches it with this Brown-nosing classic:

“I honestly cannot think of a single Blairite I know, even the most extreme ones, who isn’t massively impressed with what Gordon’s done, and ready to sign up to be a full Brownite.”

He then confirms his appointment by passing the final test - kissing Charlie Whelan on the cheek (facial, not arsal).

Actually, if Ray Collins has such crap judgment as to bring back Draper to “revive the party’s fortunes”, it will be amusing to see who he re-animates next.

My money’s on Dave Nellist.

This is becoming a habit at HP. Another personal attack on someone you don’t really know. Not quite as low as the attack on Ladele, but I really wonder what these hatchet jobs achieve? I have little sympathy with New Labour politics, but I really wonder what is the point of saying things like “as deeply unpleasant as Draper” , attacking his personal life, attacking his wife and marriage etc. The criticisms seem shallow, just the usual gossip. Is this the level to which HP stoops these days?

Oh yes, just about the only member of the Parliamentary party who went immediately to Brown to protest at the abolition of the 10p rate.

Which is ironic, given that the Tory-lite arsehole was one of the few Labour MPs opposed to the 10p rate when Brown first introduced it.

The 10p tax rate suddenly became “transitional” when Labour decided to abolish it - they claimed it had always been a “transitional” measure. However it had never been presented like that previously, when it was introduced in 1999, or in the 1997 manifesto commitment to it.

Here’s how it was described in the 1997 manifesto:

“Our long term objective is a lower starting rate of income tax of ten pence in the pound … This goal will benefit the many, not the few … We will also examine the interaction of the tax and benefits systems so that they can be streamlined and modernised, so as to fulfill our objectives of promoting work incentives, reducing poverty and welfare dependency, and strengthening community and family life.”

It doesn’t surprise me that Brown brought him back. He came out of the woodwork to join the bandwagon of attacking Blair a few years ago - wrongly thinking his intervention was somehow of note to the debate on when Blair should go.

It doesn’t make Labour look very forward looking when a stereotypical mid 90s New Labour spin doctor is brought back to the heart of the operation. Brown made a big claim about ending malicious spin a year ago - it just makes him look hypocritical.

Benjamin, stop whining. I knew Draper personally - I was at university with him - and everything said here is frankly mild. He’s a stupid parochial little tosser.

This website isn’t for faint hearts like yourself, Benji. We read Private Eye.

Can you believe Benji dug out a quote from the 97 manifesto? Just to try to make a point in an argument which he thinks is going on (in his head maybe) about the 10% rate. Too much time on his hands or what?

Well it’s good that a dissident is out there documenting the crimes of New Labour in the face of great opposition from the establishment.

Can we get back to the core fact the Draper is a tosser?

Well, this is the trouble, “Trotskyist Neocon”. There is no way of verifying what you say is true: whether or not you did know the guy. Of course Draper may or may not have been a “tosser” at university (many people were, of course), and he may (or may not) still be one now. But this is all highly personal, tendentious and indeed smacks of the “parochialism” that you complain of yourself. But that’s blogging.

I know its terribly high minded to expect folk would perhaps criticise Draper and his like in relation to ideas, policy, or anything related to substantive politics rather than soap opera, personal insult etc.

Ben

Well, you know that the 10p tax rate came up in relation to Field. I was just noting the sly Labour spin around the 10p tax band, which of course you don’t dispute - although I suspect its new to you. When you got the message that it had always been “transitional” the memory settings were quickly adjusted accordingly.

criticise Draper and his like in relation to ideas, policy, or anything related to substantive politics rather than soap opera, personal insult etc.

Benji, why don’t you write about Draper’s great ideas and policies on your own blog. This is a blog for people who know a little bit about politics and therefore know Draper was a spin doctor who was quite willing to dish it out and spread rumours himself.

I genuinely don’t think he knew, poor fella.

You take the insults a little bit too seriously. If you read a mag like Private Eye you’d understand the tone of blogging a little better. It’s quite similar - this isn’t a place for formalities.

You’ll get the hang of it.

Draper was a spin doctor who was quite willing to dish it out and spread rumours himself.

Fair enough, if those are the standards you set yourself! So, Draper’s a “tosser” and his wife’s a “muppet”. Given that the entire thread will simply be variations on that same theme, let’s just cut to the chase.

It’s not that all sorts of criticisms can’t be leveled at Draper, it’s just that I wonder if it can be done with a little less of the celebrity trivia and personal insults.

However, given Brett’s recent personal attack on Lavele, this doesn’t seem likely.

Of course Draper may or may not have been a “tosser” at university (many people were, of course), and he may (or may not) still be one now.

I think you’d struggle to find anyone who doesn’t think he’s tosser. He even admitted it himself. He’s the walking essence of Blairism - a vaccuous, smug, self-serving Thatcherite with a neat line in metropolitan blokeyness.

Of course, his return to the New Labour fold shouldn’t come as any surprise. The other person caught out in the “Lobbygate” scandal that did for Draper, was John Mendelson - was was last year appointed by Brown, presumably in a concerted effort to render the matter literally beyond satire, to sort-out the party’s funding after the donor scandals.

As someone who defended Blair in the 90s (and still does), people would occasionally use Draper as an insult “oh you’re like that odious ‘Tony boy’, Derrick Draper”.

Never a worse insult.

Draper is not the essense of Blairism.

Greg

Presumably Mendelson and Draper are back precisely because they can grease palms and have have numerous connections to help Labour out the rut its in. The trouble is, if it attempts to do so through more sleaze and dubious methods it the party will find itself just back where it started… again. One of the big fears of the New Labour clique is being so beholden to the unions financially, so they are always dreaming up schemes to mitigate that. Strange that though… After all, it is called the Labour Party.

…[the]stature and integrity of Frank Field

This is the same Frank “Library Book Thief” Field of old?

Oh dear. Looks like Labour really are scraping the bottom of the barrel to find people with enough bravery / stupidity / self-loathing to want to take on a top job.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

Derek Draper?!! If he’s the answer then Gordon Brown is even more comprehensively up shit creek than I thought.

Draper is the epitome of New Labour degeneracy. I knew him back in the day and he was a slimy, scheming, cynical, arrogant tosser with barely a redeeming quality. Even his very public conversion to the cult of touchy-feely therapy was nothing but a ploy to create a new post-scandal persona.

And now he’s back, as grotesque as ever; yet another - particularly compelling - reason to vote Labour out of office.

Ah, Degsy Draper.

Like Trotskyist Neocon, I remember him from Uni days….

About the only thing in his favour was that he seemed to be the only member of NOLS who was neither a tankie nor a wannabe Palestinian.

Had a scarily complete understanding of how to win votes through committee.

His prized possession was a personally autographed copy of Roy Hattersley’s autobiography (sic). Presumably he buried that when Roy started laying into Blair et al.

I don’t think it’s a partisan political point to observe that there are some people in the Westminster world who evince a supernal awfulness. It does transcend party boundaries – Ed Balls and George Osborne are two who, seem to have ’smug twat’ stamped through their DNA like a stick of Blackpool rock, for instance.

One might well blame the rise of such people on the vogue for professional politicians who move from student politics, to think tanks, to party HQ to the corridors of power without ever doing a ‘real’ job. But turning to the Drapers of this world is, as Gordon originally observed, a sign of utter desperation and Brown’s unerring tin ear for political mood music.

“About the only thing in his favour was that he seemed to be the only member of NOLS who was neither a tankie nor a wannabe Palestinian.”

Very true, j65, but that wasn’t because of any moral backbone on his part. He was utterly contemptuous of anything international, basically because he didn’t know much about anything - which, incidentally, is why Benji is going to find it very hard to generate a discussion about Draper’s “ideas and policies.”

I remember him being particularly disparaging, in his ignorant arsehole manner, about a march to the Chinese consulate in Manchester after Tiananmen Square. This is one of the few student political memories I have which doesn’t make me cringe two decades on. Anyway, I recall shouting matches with the diplomats there and minor scuffles with the coppers, which resulted in Draper later yelling some nonsense about how a Labour club presence hadn’t been authorised. When reminded of the massacre which had just taken place in Beijing, he came out with some crap which he thought made him sound like a tough guy but actually made him sound like a twat.

NOLS was a pretty nasty place in those days, and Draper was not averse to being pally with the PFLP and CPSU groupies. I remember in particular that he was close to this ghastly woman, Carol something-or-other, who had a proclivity for getting drunk and singing IRA songs. Yech.

Carol Judge?

haha….yes, Draper never had moral fibre. Or principles.

What I should have added, above, was that he arrived at Uni with a full understanding of the working of committee and an advanced understanding of composite motions. Dullard.

The only Carol I remember was Carol Judge who could certainly justify the adjective ‘ghastly’, although I don’t remember her singing IRA songs. Sounds like the sort of thing that another Manchester Uni NOLS activist of the same period might have done. Contributor to CiF and pops up here every so often.

Trotskyist neocon and j65: were either of you on Norm Geras’s “Marxism 301″ course? I think Sir Kenneth Charles Bell III was (though you’d have thought I’d remember a middle-aged porn star sitting at the back in his leather chaps, interrupting a lecture on, say, Bernstein’s revisionism with “I smoke tabs, me”). I also knew The Draper and can confirm all of the personal testimonies above, but—I hope this doesn’t make me sound too soft—he appears to have suffered quite a bit because of it since.

“Sounds like the sort of thing that another Manchester Uni NOLS activist of the same period might have done. Contributor to CiF and pops up here every so often.”

He doesn’t like to talk about that now though.

Ah, yes, I was on Norm’s course. And your memory is better than mine to remember the course title!

What a hideous coalition that NOLS lot were. DD with his girlie posters and his Roy autobio, CJ and her cynical alliance with radical feminists et al, and our CiF friend and his IRA comrades. Plus, of course the keffiyeh-istas.

Ghastly, indeed.

Ed Balls and George Osborne are two who, seem to have ’smug twat’ stamped through their DNA like a stick of Blackpool rock, for instance.

Okay sod it. George Osborne especially. The word ‘oleaginous’ was made for him.

There’s a kind of smug, Tory toff demeanor that is still, well, just so archetypal Tory.

Even New Labour figures at their worst do not have that particular insipidity.

You can’t really blame kids for having vulgar and ill-thought-out political views, or for showing off; most of the Lenin’s Grave-yarders, for instance, will probably become either solid social democrats, or centre-right establishment figures in the world’s ruling bureaucracies, like Connor Foley—types who those university courses (BA Econ) seemed to churn out like sausages. What’s really frightening is that other people—Islamist spokesmen such Lord Milne or Sir Bob Pitt, for example—seem not to have cared to stray one inch from their youthful foibles. Although, to be fair, that is perhaps because they have found nice little markets for such amoral vulgarity.

Dave - yes, as the possessor of ill-thought-out views myself, I understand your point.

There again, I’d differentiate between DD and his tedious obsession with standing rules and those whose comrades were in the IRA.

Ironcially Popbitch also implied that you guys (and one of it’s top correspondents in the past) are Islamophobic:

– Don’t panic, I’m Islamic –
From double glazing to laserquest

Labour and Conservative MPs were banned from attending last weekend’s IslamExpo for some spurious Islamophobic reasons. Popbitch attended and this is the sort of disgraceful extremism we encountered: [list of stupid stuff that misses the point]

or centre-right establishment figures in the world’s ruling bureaucracies, like Connor Foley

Eh?

Norm’s Marxism course: indeed, I was there. Best teacher I ever had. Don’t remember the porn star, but I do remember this other bloke who caused Norm’s brow to furrow when he asked whether Marx’s analysis of capitalism applied to “cuddly capitalists like Sir John Harvey Jones.”

SP (curiously, also the initials of a certain individual who really should have been NUS President) and j65, you are right: her name was Carol Judge. She really did sing IRA songs, in this grating voice which sounded like Shane Magowan imitating Stephen Hawking. That sory of thing you don’t forget.

Dave is spot-on about the follies of youth. Thing is, most of us have outgrown those pathologies, allowing us to revisit days gone by with irony, humour and, occasionally, nausea. I mean, I have no idea what happened to Carol Judge, but it’s theoretically possible that she’s evolved into a decent human being. Draper, on the other hand, is still hostage to those urges which led everybody to loathe him in the first place. He’s the kind of guy that would go on Big Brother to “rescue” his career.

Anyway, j65 has provided me with an opportunity to ask a question which, from time to time, has prodded me since the late 80s: what the fuck does “composite” mean, anyway?

Composite? I assumed it was a synonym for Draper.

“When you got the message that it had always been “transitional” the memory settings were quickly adjusted accordingly.”

Ho ho ho. Actually Benji, I just haven’t been paying enough attention, because I didn’t realise the government was coming out with the lame argument that 10p was transitional. Whatever the merits and demerits (and it should be realised, of course, that with tax credits the government has substantially increased the living standards of the majority of people who fell exclusively into that band) it was very bad politics.

I know it’s fun to try a little bit of caricature every once in a while re new Labour drones etc, but people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. I have more considered thought in my little finger than you’ve come up with over the whole of the last four years.

Had you considered the possibility that I might actually back moderate Labour politics because I agree with it, rather than because the government tells me to? And if I’m a drone, I dread to think what you are - you can predict with wearisome regularity exactly what you’ll say on any post, because it’s always a variation on the same cynical, carping theme. :)

Why would I have photographs?

Composite - combination of similar motions into one.

Ah. As in:

Motion 1

Derek Draper is a tosser

Motion 2

Derek Draper is a wanker

Motion 3

Derek Draper is a twat

which then becomes

Motion 4

Derek Draper is a tosser, a wanker and a twat

Amendment 1

insert “complete”

Ha ha!

You never really hear it used in real life except as regards metals and stuff, do you? (If that counts as the real world.) I’ve always thought it was slightly wanky, but I can’t off-hand think of a better word.

Anyway, Derek Draper. I know Benji has said that personal attacks are not on, but I’ve always felt that the problem was with his slimy public persona on a personal level, rather than his politics - which, to be honest, I have no real idea about apart from them being Blairite. I don’t know the guy, but he always came across as a shifty, bragging little bastard. That lobbygate stuff wasn’t good.

I second Mike entirely where he says above that Draper is not in any way the essence of or synonymous with “new Labour”.

Motions? Amendments?

I think I’m feeling nostalgic. Or is that the hives?

Either way, DD would have drafted an amendment 2, deifying Kinnock and Hattersley.

And the SWP would have had an amendment 3, blaming DD’s tossy, wankish, twattishness on Zionist imperialism.

The Millies would have wandered round talking in faux-Scouse accents. And the RCP would have been some weird cultish group no-one took seriously (plus ca change).

Probably with some Rick Astley soundtrack.

There were aspects of the 80s that were bollocks, really.

The RCP - now there was a really sinister bunch. What I remember is that, alongside Rick Astley, all the ultralefties had their own groups - The Redskins for the SWP, Easterhouse for the RCP. Personally, the Happy Mondays were good enough for me.

Someone just emailed me this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/jul/18/labour.media

What is it with The Grauniad and Draper? Hencke seems rather smitten.

Whatever. Really, all this is just entertainment for those of us who knew him and enjoy reminiscing about what a complete twat he was - and it is fun to get reacquainted with words like “tankie” and “Millie” after all these years. I can’t imagine that anyone else gives a shit.

Hencke’s article reads like a Smashy and Nicey charidee tribute to our oldest, bestest spin-doctor-lobbyist-psychotherapist-astic mate, Drapery.

Yes, most of the reminiscing is 40-something irrelevance. But some of those people held, still hold, unpleasant and dangerous views.

The Redskins were shit, although bigged up by Seething (SWP!) Wells in the NME. Easterhouse, unmemorable. Happy Mondays were big after I left Manchester.

Any other memories of DD? There must be some pearls out there….

Were The Redskins really that shit? I mean their politics were a bit off but Keep On Keepin On & Lean On Me both stand the test of time.

The jury’s still out on Easterhouse but the music blog, Best Kept Secrets, has just posted their debut album on their blog.

The Redskins sucked! And Easterhouse’s album hasn’t lasted the test of time.

However I went to see Gang of Four the other week and they were superb.

“Moreover, Andy Perry’s voice is buried beneath the mix; consequently, his political lyrics are not always intelligible, draining them of the power they probably had on paper.”

Interesting concept that - removing the power from the RCP’s cutting edge political analysis.

When someone like Derek Draper is brought back into the Labour fold, they must be completely desperate…