Harry's Place

Good post. I think every opportunity should be taken to show up Galloway for the scumbag that he is. There are many things I’ll never forgive him for both in the domestic as well as the foreign areas of politics.

The latest prisoner swap deal between Israel and Hezbollah is a healthy indicator that at least some Arabs are beginning to understand the depraved Zionist mentality, and act accordingly. Such mentality is based on arrogance, insolence, and religious and ethnic superiority.

Israel, a country whose collective mindset views non-Jews as virtual animals or at least lesser human beings, had to face a new enemy, an enemy that will not be scared by overwhelming brutality, but one that will meet Israel’s state terror with toughness, resilience, valor and defiance.

This is a new reality that Israelis, especially Israeli leaders, have yet to come to terms with, especially psychologically.

This explains the deep frustration that is apparent in the tone of Israeli leaders reacting to the latest swap deal, especially the fact that Israel has been forced to release the Lebanese guerilla Samir Kuntar.

Israel, utterly ignoring her own countless murderous sins, has come to view Kuntar as the prototype of the ultimate terrorist – as if the tens of thousands of Jewish murderers and terrorists who have enormous amounts of innocent blood on their hands were the Lord’s angels of love and mercy.

Indeed, if Israel were a normal state, and its people a normal people, it would have adopted an honest and just approach toward its neighbors, an approach that would not discriminate between “blood and blood” and “life and life.”

Undoubtedly, such an approach would have saved thousands of lives, Jewish and Arab, and spared the region and its peoples decades of pain and suffering.

But then Zionism would be losing its face, mind and heart, and would morph into something entirely different.

Unfortunately, it is probably futile to preach morality to Zionism, a manifestly demonic movement which experience shows is not capable of behaving morally and humanely.

Well, let us examine some of the statements and remarks Zionist leaders have been making with regard to the latest swap deal with Hezbollah.

Shimon Peres, the hero of the Qana massacre of 1996, who is now Israel’s President, has been quoted as saying that “We don’t want murderers to go free, but we have a moral obligation to bring home soldiers whom we sent to defend their country.”

Peres also reportedly said that “my heart is torn over the decision to pardon Kuntar,” adding that his decision to that effect “in no way constituted forgiveness.”

Certainly no one, Arab or otherwise, is particularly infatuated with what Kuntar did in 1979, although the Israeli army then was at least partially responsible for the killing by the Lebanese guerilla of three Israelis, including a paramilitary policeman, a man and his daughter.

The three lives, like numerous other victims, Arab and Jewish, would have been spared had the insolent Israeli military establishment behaved wisely.

After all, Kuntar, and his friends who were killed in that rescue operation, didn’t come to Israel to kill and shed blood but to force Israel to release Arab prisoners.

Nonetheless, one is prompted to ask difficult questions, questions that most Israelis don’t like to hear – let alone answer, but when confronted with them, they either seek to evade or prevaricate and quibble in their answers.

Who has killed more innocent people, Shimon Peres or Samir Kuntar? Who has more blood, including children’s blood, on his hands, Shimon Peres or Samir Kuntar? Who has inflicted more terror, suffering and death upon innocent people, Shimon Peres or Samir Kuntar?

If honesty is to be the ultimate arbiter among men, then one can’t escape the inescapable conclusion that it is mass murderers like Peres, Ariel Sharon and other Israeli leaders, dead or living, who really need forgiveness for their horrible crimes against humanity.

In fact, Israelis should be reminded on this occasion that a Presidential post, a business suit with a necktie, and the ability to speak eloquent sound-bites in several languages and have audience with statesmen and VIPs from around the world, doesn’t really transform a criminal into a true human being.

A criminal is a criminal especially if he refuses to come to terms with his crimes and if he refuses to apologize to his victims. Needless to say, Peres has done neither.

But then criminals are not concerned about their sins.

One elderly Israeli woman interviewed by the Ha’aretz newspaper lashed out at Hezbollah for having refused until the very last moment to tell if the two Israeli prisoners were dead or alive.

“It’s the saddest day for Israel. They kept us waiting until the last second to learn the fate of our sons,” the woman was quoted as saying.

I certainly sympathize with the woman at the personal level. However, I would want to ask the Jewish lady why she thought that Jewish lives were worth more than non-Jewish lives?

I also would like to ask her what she would tell the mothers, families and relatives of thousands of Arab prisoners who have been languishing in Israel’s dark, underground dungeons since 1967?

We are talking about POWs and MIAs and other ordinary people whose families have no way of knowing if their beloved ones are dead or alive. Aren’t these “forgotten prisoners” human beings, too? Are they children of a lesser God?

Unfortunately, most Israelis, thoroughly self-absorbed and self-centered, don’t like to be asked such questions lest their superiority complexes and collective psychosis be exposed.

Finally, the latest prisoner swap shows that Israel only understands the language of cold realpolitik which is by definition immoral and coercive.

For Palestinians, who have more than 10,000 of their beloved ones languishing in Israeli concentration camps, the message is very clear: If you want to get Israel to release your beloved ones, take Israeli hostages and swap them for the Palestinian captives.

Kuntarman, You are George Galloway and I claim my five pounds.
:-)

some Arabs are beginning to understand the depraved Zionist mentality, and act accordingly

It’s a shame you can’t choose fonts in Wordpress, that would look really good in Comic Sans or a scrawly crayon typeface.

I counted close to a dozen classic Anti-Semitic tropes in Kuntarman’s ravings.

His whining demonstrates why the pollyanna approach adopted by Gene and S.O. Muffin will not and can’t work – you cannot argue with a mind as diseased as Kuntarman.

The only solution is to inflict upon the anti-Israeli Arab psyche a bloody defeat so utterly overwhelming that they have no choice to alter their thinking due to the shock to their national psychology. Such as was inflicted upon Germany and Japan in 1945 onwards.

Kuntarman, what you have published is an obsencity of obsencities!

Gene, do not worry I will not forget and I will not anyone else forget either.

No, this is a piece by Khalid Amayreh (amayreh@p-ol.com)

http://palestinethinktank.com/2008/07/17/khalid-amayreh-reflections-on-the-israel-hezbollah-prisoner-swap-deal/

It was posted by the poster who usually posts as Udham Singh. You’ll be generally familiar with this poster’s views.

Khalid Amayreh is a favourite of the Atzmonites.

The same mentality which drives “Kuntarman” is offered up for us today in The Grauniad by this post, clearly partly put together from an identical template.

Quite apart from the twisted morality of how “Kuntarman” attempts to sanitize Kuntar’s crimes by arguing that, hey, he only murdered a few people compared with a state fighting a defensive war, neither of them mentions the devastating price of Nasrallah’s “triumph” for the Lebanese civilians, cities, infrastructure, economy and future.

Morgoth, I am afraid you are right. Western Appeasement of Islamic Extremism will embold them untill only what happened to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan will stop them.

It was posted by the poster who usually posts as Udham Singh. You’ll be generally familiar with this poster’s views.

Is Udham Singh “Avi Cohen” as well?

Most nuts do turn out to be the same people.

More often than not these days, it turns out to be Bob Pitt

But I dunno.

“Israel, a country whose collective mindset views non-Jews as virtual animals”

If this were true, Sonic the Hedgehog could be a elected to the Knesset. Perhaps it is.

p.s.

Where is Flanker?

Morgoth, I am afraid you are right. Western Appeasement of Islamic Extremism will embold them untill only what happened to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan will stop them.

Unfortunately, I am correct. It would be lovely, I’m sure if we could all sit and hold hands and teach the world to sing, but it ain’t happening. And the prime engine behind the purveyors of a new dark age is resurgant monotheism.

Ever wonder why Arabs, when they move to America, become almost inevitably sucessful and outstanding citizens and a credit to themselves?

The way things are going, not even Tehran or Damascus becoming a car park would discourage the likes of Hezbollah and the other death cultists. Metaphorically, it is 1933 and Winston Churchill is being ignored.

Morgoth said:”I counted close to a dozen classic Anti-Semitic tropes in Kuntarman’s ravings.”

So did I. Maybe with his knee jerk verging on the anti semitic anti zionist loonery he or she would be better off on another site. On here there seems to be a much more balanced approach to the continuing tragedy of the middle east which affects both Israelis and Arabs.

More often than not these days, it turns out to be Bob Pitt

So definitely isn’t Bob Pitt?

Apart from CityLightsGirl, that is.

best ignore Kuntarman, he’s just re-pasting someone else’s remarks without attribution, Khalid Amayreh in Occupied East Jerusalem
see http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2008/07/17/p27082

but looking at the pictures of Samir Kuntar I was struck by one thing ever so different from say a prisoner stuck in a British jail.

Samir Kuntar came out of prison fat,

Kuntar was well fed, almost bursting thru his uniform and despite some cranky “anti-imperialists” who go on about Israel’s dungeons, Kuntar seems to have benefited from incarceration and got fat in the process, unlike inmates of British jails who invariably come out thinner than they go in.

Israel, a country whose collective mindset views non-Jews as virtual animals or at least lesser human beings

My brother is in Tel Aviv right now. He’s not a Jew. I wonder if they’re making him sleep in a kennel. I doubt it.

“Ever wonder why Arabs, when they move to America, become almost inevitably sucessful and outstanding citizens and a credit to themselves?”

Yes. It is because the mythology of America in principle, enables any American to feel as a American as any other, regardless of race, country of origin, or religion.

(What could a “resurgent monotheism” have to do with it Morgoth?)

And hold on to the dignified public responses of the parents, by contrast:
Shlomo Goldwasser (On Wednesday before he had his son’s fate confirmed)

“If Hizbullah’s great achievement is the release of Kuntar, who is nothing but a repulsive murderer, then I pity them.”

Miki Goldwasser, hours after learning her son’s fate:

Till the last minute I was hoping some luck would bless us. But unfortunately now we are facing the truth.
Today was difficult but luckily we are surrounded by so many people, friends and relatives. I have two other sons and I am looking forward them being married and having children… Life still goes on.”

Shlomo: In the last two years we discovered what a wonderful people the Jewish nation is. We would like to thank the entire Jewish nation. This nation is our answer to Nasrallah who is trying to toy with our emotions.

Zvi Regev: I thank the Jewish nation, the media and all who have intervened on our behalf. We hoped Udi and Eldad would return alive; now we will have to adjust to a new reality.”

“My brother is in Tel Aviv right now. He’s not a Jew. I wonder if they’re making him sleep in a kennel.”

Some of those cheap motels by the beach are virtual kennels.

kuntarman, Bob Pitt (or whoever) is employing the age ago tactic of baiting their opponents (very common with the extreme right) just to see them react, don’t give him the pleasure of replying or responding to his provocation

he’s best ignored

Isn’t Galloway still trying to get Jeremy Bamber released as well.

I’m sure George will have some explanation as to how the intelligence services set up Kuntar.Remember,George claims the intelligence services spread evidenc of his relationships with other women to his wife.

My brother is in Tel Aviv right now. He’s not a Jew. I wonder if they’re making him sleep in a kennel. I doubt it.

Israel can’t do everything. We have to take our own responsibilities. And by “we” I mean “you”.

Leaving aside “Kuntarman” for a moment, my idea for distributing leaflets was not just rhetorical. I think it could seriously embarrass the “We Are All Hezbollah” crowd and put them on the defensive.

A bunch of us distributed leaflets during Galloway’s US tour in 2005. It doesn’t take a huge amount of resources or a huge number of people. (See here, here, here, here, here and here.)

You’ll notice that Galloway hasn’t been back in the USA since.

The only solution is to inflict upon the anti-Israeli Arab psyche a bloody defeat so utterly overwhelming that they have no choice to alter their thinking due to the shock to their national psychology. Such as was inflicted upon Germany and Japan in 1945 onwards.

Hard not to agree with this. One can infer from Arab leaders – both their words and their deeds – that they deem that the only victories worth obtaining are the ones from the battlefield and not the negotiating table (I’m thinking primarily of Arafat and Nasser as well as today’s leadership of Hamas and Hezbollah).

Indeed, any action in which they haven’t suffered a completely devastating defeat is hailed as a victory (like 1973 and 2006) regardless of the actual result.

And any Arab leader who does go down the negotiating route with success ends up assissinated (Sadat).

Because Arab countries are not democracies, the popularity of the leadership cannot be drawn from being fair and civil to its population – it can only be garnered from populist and triumphalist actions that talk to nationalistic tendencies.

Winning a war (or at least convincing your population you’ve just won a war) is a handy way of giving your population a feel-good factor (and just may put out of their minds the fact that they are living in a dictatorship).

At the moment I think it’s reasonable to say that a significant proportion of the Arab world believes their leaders when they say that the “Zionist regime” will be defeated. There is only one way to change that perception (and the continued violence that stems from it) – to crush Israel’s enemies so convincingly that even the most blinkered of folks know this and no amount of celebrations from Hezbollah et al can convince them otherwise.

Respect for the leaflets Gene, but I suspect his fear of being nabbed on a perjury charge may be more of a consideration.

“Such as was inflicted upon Germany and Japan in 1945 onwards.”

You dumb cocks YOU did not defeat Nazi Germany, For once I would love to see your dumbasses get your premise right to even BEFORE you start with your fallacies and kooky ideas.

For every Kuntar there are Qanas, for every 1 Israeli child there are 32 Lebanese children. Galloway talks about a guy who met Kuntar, you people sweep aside the massacre in Qana as if it were irrelevant. If Galloway is trash you people are monsters.

Respect for the leaflets Gene, but I suspect his fear of being nabbed on a perjury charge may be more of a consideration.

I’m sure you’re right, tim.

Anyone wishing to bring up this subject with Galloway can do so this evening between 10pm and 1am.

http://www4.talksport.net/Contact_us.asp?pres_id=100044

Flanker what do you think of Kuntar?

“Flanker what do you think of Kuntar?”

The same that I think of anyone that kills.

a few of those “anti-imperialists”, like Flanker, are positively salivate at the thought of Jews getting their brains bashed out, but they are sickos and best disregarded.

“Israel, a country whose collective mindset views non-Jews as virtual animals or at least lesser human beings, had to face a new enemy, an enemy that will not be scared by overwhelming brutality, but one that will meet Israel’s state terror with toughness, resilience, valor and defiance.”

I don’t think any Israeli, Muslim/Jew/Druze/Christian, would recognise his description of Israel. Perhaps he should visit Egypt and ask Egyptians what they think of the ‘Palestinian cause’ and vile Jew-hating terror groups like Hamas and at-Takfir wa’l-Hijrah…witness the undying love Egyptians have for Anwar as-Sadat, separated by decades from his blatant nepotism and decadent lifestyle, they still choose to salute this man as a ‘hero’ in spite of the odium displayed toward him by Hamasofascists.

Shouldn’t Kanterman (surely Qantarman) spend some time in the counry he so derides before edifying the wonders of Palestinian proto-statehood?

“a few of those “anti-imperialists”, like Flanker, are positively salivate at the thought of Jews getting their brains bashed out, but they are sickos and best disregarded.”

And you people salivate every time a bomb drops. Maybe the Stuka siren should be your leitmotif.

Honestly, I find the sound of a Stuka quite appealing, even romantic.

Modernity said:”a few of those “anti-imperialists”, like Flanker, are positively salivate at the thought of Jews getting their brains bashed out, but they are sickos and best disregarded.”

Well said. Its was the rampant covert and overt antisemitism that finally persuaded me to part company with the British Left.

It must really nark him to know that Arabs (as-Sabah family, many Lebanese, large numbers of Egyptians, ex-pres Bourqiba, the entire Moroccan royal dynasty and the authentic ’sayyed’ Hashemite royal family of Jordan) despised and go on despising Palestinian terrorism…

If only the Saudis would convert to Orthodox Judaism there’d be no room to hide…

Honestly, I find the sound of a Stuka quite appealing, even romantic.

I personally always thought Brief Encounter could have been livened up a bit with the addition of a few Stukas….

Incidentally, I’m told that the Stuka wasn’t actually very good and was only situationally useful or effective.

Funny how Flanker doesn’t mention Hama, eh?

“Kuntarman”, indeed, a most appropriate name, but isn’t the spelling suspect?

Surely it starts with a “C”?

“Incidentally, I’m told that the Stuka wasn’t actually very good and was only situationally useful or effective.”

Evidently you people are not very useful either.

Flanker: “The same that I think of anyone that kills.”

Oh good. Then I suppose you agree with this post. That glorifying Hezbollah is wrong. Well done Gene.

Evidently Bush had his Reichstag burned, right Flanker?

Dave T: Did you see that Dean and Dean is acting for Tarique Ghaffur in his claim for racial discrimination against the Metropolitan Police? And, that Shahrokh Mireskandari is suing the Solicitors’ Regulatory Authority over racial discrimination as well? Goodness, there’s a lot of it about!

Please can we focus on the life affirming messages from the Goldwassers and ignore the scum who think love for the dead and care of prisoners is a sign of depravity? And wank fests over nuclear attacks?

I spoke today to someone from the Holocaust Centre in Melbourne, and we decided that the sight of Goldwasser’s widow by his coffin was reason for the exchange. Fuck everyone else into oblivion.

“Oh good. Then I suppose you agree with this post. That glorifying Hezbollah is wrong. Well done Gene.”

And brushing aside the massacres of the second Lebanon war as worse.

Afterall you are all IDF now.

Flanker said:”Afterall you are all IDF now”

Not quite. Though after seeing the disgusting way that Hezbollocks welcomed the filthy child murdering scumbag Kuntar I’d say ‘We Are All Zionists Now’ (of differing degrees I might add).

Celebrating a kiddie killer as a hero is like saying Ian Brady is a working class revolutionary (maybe if I wait a while this might be the next SWP slogan).

Somebody should do this – and publish somewhere like Scribd so we can all grab it.

“Not quite. ”

I don’t get it, what could you possibly fear in admitting this?

Credit George for one thing.
He’s got consisten taste in men

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/Samir_Kuntar.JPG

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/11/25/BaghdadFC.jpg

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pcfreezone/gallowayandsaddamson.jpg

Flanker said:”“Not quite. ”

I don’t get it, what could you possibly fear in admitting this?”

Some of us are not fit enough or young enough to join the IDF.

Clearly is rethorical not literal.

Why do you support the manslaughter of Lebanese and Palestinians?

‘Afterall you are all IDF now.’

Yes, and likewise we are all Husayn and every land is Kerbalah…where have I heard this tripe before? That’s right, it was whilst at a symposium of anti-occultation clerics somewhere North of Qom…

Are you also a Baal-worshipper Flanker? Sacrificing babies at the 80ft effigy of Nasrallah outside Sidon won’t do you any good you know…Trust in ‘I am’ not Baal!

“Afterall you are all IDF now.”

Who said this? Where are their posters?

Somebody did say that about Hezbollah though. So its nice to see that you’ve renounced such rhetoric. That’s part of growing up.

Well done Flanker.

Flanker: “The same that I think of anyone that kills.”

That includes el Generalísimo Hugo Chavez.

I caught your thread via the al-Manar website Flanker…seeing as your my most ardent supporter I thought I’d tell yu thatI’ve decided to become a Shamen and live in Islington…I trust this won’t detract from your obvious support Baal and other Babylonian fertility gods…hmmm?

“That includes el Generalísimo Hugo Chavez.”

Link?

The fat bastard looks like Oliver Hardy.

Sadly, I think this post overestimates the “anti-Zionists”. The proposed leaflets might help one or two of their useful idiots smell a rat, though.

“I caught your thread via the al-Manar website Flanker…seeing as your my most ardent supporter I thought I’d tell yu thatI’ve decided to become a Shamen and live in Islington…I trust this won’t detract from your obvious support Baal and other Babylonian fertility gods…hmmm?”

WTF the only Baal I know is Lord of Destruction.

“Link?”

Why do you want a link? Did you broke the chain by which el Generalísimo Hugo Chavez, Señor de los Fascistas, holds you by the neck?

Kuntarman probably isn’t even aware of his own deeply ingrained racism—the sweeping, demonising generalisations that are the racists’ stock-in-trade, on both sides. Anyway, here’s my poem on the theme, for dress-down Friday.

hatta al-nasr, hatta al-nasr, hatta al-Quds
With the successful deaths
of so many of their best fighters
and God knows how many
ubiquitous civilians (the water
in which they swam) now vaporised;
also, the successful destruction
of so much vital infrastructure,
the airports, bridges, and roads;
many among the Lebanese Shia must now be praying
for a run of bad luck
for their great hero, Nasrallah,
a bit of a breather from all that sucesss
to give them enough time
to patch up the mains pipe, a dilapidated
window frame,
to bury the dead.

But other than trolling this site, what’s the real Flanker like? Aside from being hated on a blog I mean. Any kids? Any pets? What do you do apart from this? I’m interested to know. Let’s hear about the human side of Flanker.

Wasn’t Chavez part of Venezuela’s army? Doesn’t the Venezuela Army kills? Therefore, you hate el Generalísimo Hugo Chavez as much as you hate the IDF, mi muy estimado ligero de la azotea.

“Why do you want a link? Did you broke the chain by which el Generalísimo Hugo Chavez, Señor de los Fascistas, holds you by the neck?”

Link?

“But other than trolling this site, what’s the real Flanker like? Aside from being hated on a blog I mean. Any kids? Any pets? What do you do apart from this? I’m interested to know. Let’s hear about the human side of Flanker.”

I am your super ego that gave up on your psyche.

He is a baby. He plays the videogame Diablo II. That is the only reason he knows the word “Baal”.

No really, apart from the internet – apart from exchanging pointless futile barbs – what do you get up to? Any hobbies or anything?

F – unless you are an adherent of philosophical pacifism, a moribund and intellectually cowardly doctrine, you accept that killing people is sometimes the right thing to do – in the sense that it is the lesser of two evils. In modern wars innocents get killed – to be opposed to war unless no innocent can possibly die is to be a pratical pacifist – or an objective pro-Nazi. I take it you are neither.

The issue is therefore not one of killing it is about whether a war is just – in cause and in the way it is fought. If the cause is just the key issue in respect of the latter issue is wheter civillians are directly targetted, or whether the military forces are careless as to the deaths of civillians and fail to take reasonable steps to avoid civillian casualties.

Hezbollah’s actions are just in neither sense. Israel’s wars have almost exclusively be just causes and the IDF has gone to extraordinary lenghts to avoid civillian casualties. It did not cover itself in glory in this regard in Lebannon 2 but it was fighting an organisation hiding amongst civillians.

http://www.enews20.com/news_Kuntar_accuses_Israel_of_fabricating_story_of_child_killing_09648.html

Kuntar accuses Israel of fabricating story of child killing
By eNews 2.0 Staff
10:38, July 18th 2008 1 vote
Vote this article
dotclear
dotclear

Released prisoner Samir Kuntar accused Israel late Thursday of fabricating the story of how he killed the four-year-old daughter of an Israeli man in 1979.

‘Israel has fabricated the story about how I killed the child during the attack I carried out in 1979,’ Kuntar told the Hezbollah- run Al Manar television.

He said that he read in the Israeli paper Maarev a report, which was published April 23, 1979, a day after he carried out his attack that the child was killed in cross-fire.

Kuntar stressed that he is not saying this to clear his image before Israelis, but because ‘the Israelis have used this fabricated story to defame his image and the cause he is fighting for.’

“He is a baby. He plays the videogame Diablo II. That is the only reason he knows the word “Baal”.”

Link?

“No really, apart from the internet – apart from exchanging pointless futile barbs – what do you get up to? Any hobbies or anything?”

I prefer maintaining my annonymity thankyouverymuch, it is the only thing that keeps me safe from persecution.

“F – unless you are an adherent of philosophical pacifism, a moribund and intellectually cowardly doctrine, you accept that killing people is sometimes the right thing to do – in the sense that it is the lesser of two evils. In modern wars innocents get killed – to be opposed to war unless no innocent can possibly die is to be a pratical pacifist – or an objective pro-Nazi. I take it you are neither.”

Whatever makes you sleep well at night.

I know Flanker. He was that spotty kid in the corner who always had crush on me…but wasn’t he put away for good after he started kidnappin Bryan Sewell’s rabbits, strapping them with semtex and using them for jihad?

As for Baal…he used to have an 80ft owl effigy in his garden so I don’t know where his BohemianGrove-esque panjanderings on the Lord of Destruction come from…

Wait a minute…that’s Muh..I mean Allah’s pseudonym from the Qur’an isn’t it? Rab ul Dahmah…

The only solution is to inflict upon the anti-Israeli Arab psyche a bloody defeat so utterly overwhelming that they have no choice to alter their thinking due to the shock to their national psychology. Such as was inflicted upon Germany and Japan in 1945 onwards.

I completely agree, Morgoth.

During the second siege of Constantinople in the early 700s, the Byzantines repulsed the Arabs using greek fire.

The Byzantine victory was so total, and the arabs so humiliated, they never went near the place again.

And the prime engine behind the purveyors of a new dark age is resurgant monotheism.

Disagree

When properly used, religion can be a force for good, especially as pertains to battling radical Islamists.

Ever wonder why Arabs, when they move to America, become almost inevitably sucessful and outstanding citizens and a credit to themselves?

Glad you stated that, but some qualifyers are needed.

Up until recently the Arabs of which you speak were mostly Chrisitians.

Christian Arabs are very dynamic and, like Jews, are way over-represented in the professions, business, etc.

Montreal has had a large Christian Arab community ( Coptic, Chaldean and Maronite) since the dawn of the last century ( 20th) and they have had an enormous and VERY positive impact on the economic and cultural life of the city.

They’ve also added their own particular form sensuality to Montreal’s ethnic mix, and it’s a form of sensuality that is quite pleasant.

Their ‘monotheism’, thus, has been a force for good.

“I prefer maintaining my annonymity thankyouverymuch, it is the only thing that keeps me safe from persecution.”

His hobbies must be very embarrassing! Their aren’t many hobbies worthy of persecution!

Your “good monotheism” has a 7-8 digit kill count.

But Flanker I don’t understand what’s in it for you. I could very easily go and find a blog whose values are very different to mine, and troll it for month upon month, never changing anyone’s mind, always coming across as a tosser, always making myself look like an unpleasant, bitter, loathsome git. But I don’t. I like HP, and how convivial it is when you’re not around. What do you get from spoiling that? Is it just a compulsion? A disorder you have? Is this therapy of sorts?

“His hobbies must be very embarrassing! Their aren’t many hobbies worthy of persecution!”

Despite of what was insinuated above, I always stated that you guys were my hobby.

I prefer maintaining my annonymity thankyouverymuch, it is the only thing that keeps me safe from persecution

Yes, if you told us you played chess, or went out for country walks, we’d instantly know who you were, and would mock you mercilessly.

“I could very easily go and find a blog whose values are very different to mine, and troll it for month upon month, never changing anyone’s mind, always coming across as a tosser, always making myself look like an unpleasant, bitter, loathsome git. But I don’t.”

But I don’t think you could do so successfully, I am just a better you.

You’re actually boasting about your ability to come across as an unpleasant, bitter, loathsome git?

“His whining demonstrates why the pollyanna approach adopted by Gene and S.O. Muffin will not and can’t work – you cannot argue with a mind as diseased as Kuntarman.”: who is proposing to argue with a mind as diseased as Kuntarman? Let him, resistor and Flanker form a mutual admiration society, any breath arguing with them is a breath wasted.

resistor,

Bits of the little girl’s brain tissue were found on the butt of Kuntar’s rifle. Now please go away forever.

“You’re actually boasting about your ability to come across as an unpleasant, bitter, loathsome git?”

You must be new here, I have boasted from day one.

Flanker, seriously, do you have a favourite pizza? Or yoghurt? Or a lucky pair of pants? Anything to make you seem like a human?

Sadly, I think this post overestimates the “anti-Zionists”. The proposed leaflets might help one or two of their useful idiots smell a rat, though.

At least it would let Galloway and the Stoppers know that they are not going unchallenged. And even if we can raise doubts among only a few, that’s a few more than doubted before.

PS sorry everyone for making this thread about Flanker, but I am genuinely interested in what trolls do other than being trolls. Gene, delete if you want to.

Flanker, seriously, do you have a favourite pizza? Or yoghurt? Or a lucky pair of pants? Anything to make you seem like a human?

You don’t understand. Such information could be used to persecute him.

Gene (mushroom and onion, strawberry-banana, no)

“Flanker, seriously, do you have a favourite pizza? Or yoghurt? Or a lucky pair of pants? Anything to make you seem like a human?”

A human being is not defined by what he eats or likes, he is defined by his opposition to both war and real suffering of others.

I like a pizze frutti di mare. Clams and squid and what have you. Do you worst with than info, MI5.

You are likely paid by MI5 the worst they can do to you is change the cafeteria menu.

PS sorry everyone for making this thread about Flanker, but I am genuinely interested in what trolls do other than being trolls. Gene, delete if you want to.

That’s OK, wardy, I often wonder about the same thing myself. Unfortunately the very nature of trolldom seems to prevent us from ever finding out.

Even with Wardy’s effort, I honestly feel like crying.

>You are likely paid by MI5

This is even madder than the Bush Reichstag stuff, hats off. I do hope people are remembering this.

Gene.
I suspect that Galloway will claim that the brain tissue was planted on the rifle.

sorry everyone for making this thread about Flanker

Flanker’s presence provides an invaluable service to us all in reminding us why it’s so important that we fight the good fight. Thank you, Flanker, for never letting us forget that rationality and logic will never be enough to stop the haters.

You are likely paid by MI5 the worst they can do to you is change the cafeteria menu

Do they have internet terminals in mental hospitals?

I mean, that really is the most rational explanation, based on the evidence of this thread.

Wait, am I the only one who is not anti-Israeli to find Morgoth’s call for “…a bloody defeat so utterly overwhelming that they have no choice to alter their thinking due to the shock to their national psychology” despicable?

Or is bloody a metaphor?

Perhaps because I am a Jew who lived for four years among tens of millions of Muslims in Iran, I am less likely to think that a) a staggering military defeat is necessary or will work and b) that it’s entertaining to call for turning Tehran into a parking lot. This kind of rhetoric just keeps everyone in their own corners waiting for the fight.

It seems that there *are* plenty of Arabs questioning the status of Quntar as a hero. Take a look at Arabisto’s post about Quntar on MideastYouth.com:

http://www.mideastyouth.com/2008/07/16/sameer-quntar-arab-hero/
or Ray Hanania’s:
http://tinyurl.com/5a7ag2

Well, not always.
I have unmasked a troll thanks to a friend who knew him.
Poor guy, he used an Arab name to molest on Jewish blogs, a la Flanke4r, and turns out the guy is an engineering teacher on an Argentinian university. His father is Jewish (her mother is Christian) and he was part of the Jewish community, until they throw him out on account of writing in the Jewish community magazine that Israel is colonialist and an apartheid country.
Since then, he was seen denying that there were Swastikas in graffiti in his city, and when my friend showed him some in his camera, that he took as proof, he tried to smash it.
The guy is tall like a smurf, just a meter and a half. And my friend always pity him, in fact, the in the same manner that Frodo pittied Gollum.

“But I don’t think you could do so successfully, I am just a better you.”

Being Flanker requires about the same amount of talent as tapping someone on the shoulder for 3 hours.

We had to unmask him, because he was pretending to be an Arab so he could cowrite a blog with a very important Jewish historian which I won’t name.

Gene has a touching belief in the honesty of the Israeli Military or is he part of this PR campaign…

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1002774.html

‘PR campaign will make clear: Samir Kuntar is a murderer
By Barak Ravid

Israel yesterday launched an international media campaign against Hezbollah. The Prime Minister’s Office’s public relations unit is handling the information, which includes an Internet film for YouTube about Samir Kuntar, portraying him as a murderer who crushed a four-year-old girl’s skull.

Israeli envoys abroad and the Foreign Ministry are telling international and Arab media that Kuntar is “no freedom fighter but an abominable murderer.” The campaign, which emphasizes Israel’s moral values compared with its enemies, is also intended to prevent the possibility of international recognition and legitimization of Hezbollah.’

also

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/997967.html

Former security prisoner Yasser Hanjar, of the Golan Heights village of Majdal Shams, served time in 1999, and for eight months shared a cell with Kuntar. He was convicted of participating in the 1979 terror attack in Naharyia, in which two members of the Haran family, as well as two Israeli policemen, were killed.

Hanjar recalled a time when Kuntar told him his version of the events.

“Samir said it was his sincere belief in the armed struggle against Israel that motivated him to undertake the mission,” he said.

However, Hanjar continued, “he said he had no intention of killing anyone. He wanted to take Israelis hostage, and certainly not kill them.”

He also said Kuntar firmly rejected allegations he had smashed the head of 4-year-old Einat Haran, one of his victims.

“This is the Israeli version,” he quoted Kuntar

Wait, am I the only one who is not anti-Israeli to find Morgoth’s call for “…a bloody defeat so utterly overwhelming that they have no choice to alter their thinking due to the shock to their national psychology” despicable?

No. We’ve read that crap from Morgoth here so often that unfortunately we’ve become somewhat inured to it.

“Being Flanker requires about the same amount of talent as tapping someone on the shoulder for 3 hours.”

Well I laughed.

Yes, Gene. And he still doesn’t know what a pollyanna is.

resistor.
trying to prove Kuntar didn’t kill the child is irrelevant to people like Galloway.
Remember here is a man who fantasises about landing on Israel beaches with an AK47.
Also remember that the more the stories of Udays rapes circulated in Iraq, the more George crawled before Uday.
So save your breath.

“The worst they can do to you is change the cafeteria menu.”

I actually thought that was quite good, though perhaps only because the amusing image of such a ludic chap as wardytron carelessly scoffing frutti di mare in his luch break before heading back to the office to preside over some gross violation of fundamental liberties.

Gene:

If Galloway hasn’t returned to the US it may have more to do with him having lied to a Senate subcommittee about his involvement with Iraqi oil vouchers than your leaflet campaign.

Well you did get it, kudos.

Was your comment about Bush getting his Reichstag burned also a joke, Flanker?

So, Resistor, tell us, how does Kuntar’s buddy, who was an accomplice to an attack on unarmed civilians, claim the child died?

Just what credibility do either he or Kuntar possess in your rather benighted opinion?

Tim, I’ve been trying to reference that story about GG.

Which one?

http://www.sundayherald.com/life/people/display.var.1724203.0.george_and_his_dragons.php
THE BEIRUT BLUNDER Although never a student at Dundee University, Galloway hung around there, playing snooker in the National Union of Students bar and chatting about politics. Crucially, he made friends with some young men from the Middle East, Palestinians and Iraqis. When the university’s Friends of Palestine Society decided to plan a fact-finding trip to Beirut, Galloway was suggested as a potential delegate.

On the Beirut visit, in summer 1977, Galloway and the rest of the party were shown around “Fatahland”, a buffer zone in southern Lebanon between the fighting factions, where they witnessed the hardship endured by homeless Palestinians and saw some tit-for-tat shelling. It was a dangerous trip and the group of 25 or so visitors were guarded at times by young PLO men carrying AK47s. The visitors got on very well with their armed escort and at one stage Galloway suggested they have a picture takentogether.Theresultsmakeinteresting viewing. The two guards look a little bemused, presumably not used to British political activists wanting to be pictured next to PLO gunmen just a few years after the Munich 1972 massacre. Galloway, though, is smiling as if he could be on the Costa del Sol, about to order paella and a round of drinks. When the picture surfaced in the press a few years later he was certainly left with egg on his face. It was an example of how he often seems to present PR coups to his opponents.

There’s more somewhere else.His book I think.

As for what attracted him to the millionaire rapist Uday, I don’t know.

Tim, I’ve been trying to independntly verify that story about GG since the poster made it from personal experience.

There’s a passage in his book where he salivates about being in the same building as one of the men behind the Munich “operation”.
Killing athletes.
twenty years later he’s greeting a man who tortured football teams as “your Excellency”.

When it comes to lowlife like resistor or Flanker, facts are less than nothing. Essentially, resistor could have reacted in one of three ways: either expressing horror with regard to Einat Haran’s murder by Kuntar, or rejoicing in it, or claiming that it never happened.

He cannot express horror because in his sicko world you just can’t agree that “your” side has the least blemish (or that the other side has the least humanity). He cannot rejoice in it publicly, whatever he might feel, because it is bad agitprop. So all he can is deny that it happened. And lie, and lie again. This is the nature of the scum and whoever here believes that he is open to facts, to argument, to anything but total derision is living in a cloud cuckoo land.

esther,

yes, Morgoth’s comments ARE disgusting, he’s nearly as wacked out as resistor and flanker, just a mirror image of their sociopathic impulses.

Morgoth’s a barking mad Satanist type, he repeats the same old crap every few threads, when you’ve seen it once you’ve seen it 1000 times, so most of us just skip over such filth.

Flanker, you don’t actually want to persuade anybody of your beliefs, do you? Because if you did, you’d simply say “This guy is an evil tosser, and I’m not going to try and defend him, and I’m not going to be so cheap as to try and ‘contextualise’ the specificity of his crime. Discussions of my opinions of the IDF are for another day”.

But you do not do this. Instead, you act as if you’re part of a weird PR company, always trying to spin something back to your contrived worldview. Even if you believe in that worldview consummately, you do not serve its presentation well by such cackhanded rhetoric.

Try harder. I’m sure you could act as a useful Hegelian dialectic merchant, but you spoil this in your knee-jerk, shallow responses to specific issues like these, which spoil not only your credibility but mask any points you might usefully make elsewhere.

Please, if you can, think a moment about exactly what I’m saying here. I am not attacking you to your core, but wonder whether you could have a moment of self-analysis and, whatever you believe everyone else’s faults might be, discover the rhetorical ones in you.

Post, you are wasting your time. Flanker is a nerd. He was probably beaten so much at school that he can only feel secure on the internet.

He cannot express horror because in his sicko world you just can’t agree that “your” side has the least blemish (or that the other side has the least humanity). He cannot rejoice in it publicly, whatever he might feel, because it is bad agitprop. So all he can is deny that it happened.

Sort of like the way some people deal with the Holocaust.

“Please, if you can, think a moment about exactly what I’m saying here. I am not attacking you to your core, but wonder whether you could have a moment of self-analysis and, whatever you believe everyone else’s faults might be, discover the rhetorical ones in you.”

I am not here to change anyone’s mind, There is no real reason to do so, nor do I notice any potential individual that deserves it.

So if you’re not here to persuade and to argue convincingly, what are you here to do?

In other Internet Knob Head news.
Richard Seymour 32 years old has finally got a BA.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2008/07/graduated.html

It is a trite observation, but never ceases to be a source of wonder, that for people like Flanker, and some of my erstwhile socialist friends, their scepticism radar is switched on at full strength for any facts no matter how objectively verifiable from the Israel source, but totally switched off and full gullibility receptacle opened to max, for any narrative, no matter how far fetched, from the Other.

“So if you’re not here to persuade and to argue convincingly, what are you here to do?”

Entertainment and political venting against their evil side, you should see me in real life I am constantly LMAO, in particular when I am reminded of a recurring theme.

Psychotic? maybe, but I see no reason to stop.

Disgusting?

Nope. Just a realisation that the only way to deal with genocidal fascists is to kill them. With extreme prejudice.

Anything else is pure Chamberlain.

Additionally, which part of my thesis is untrue? Don’t you remember DaveM’s posts from Syria, where the regime there painted 1967 and 1973 as Arab victories.

“I am constantly LMAO, in particular when I am reminded of a recurring theme.Psychotic? maybe, but I see no reason to stop”

You mean you are like this too in your off line real life?

Morgoth, a person who says “If UK Jews continue with their religion we should send them all to Israel” is a sick fuck.
Now, when was exactly the moment you went from being a simply open eyed atheist to being a sick fuck?

Entertainment and political venting against their evil side, you should see me in real life I am constantly LMAO, in particular when I am reminded of a recurring theme.

Ah. I think I’ve finally located Flanker on YouTube.

“when was exactly the moment you went from being a simply open eyed atheist”

Because to Fabian the other times he said that about Muslims was peachy.

Kuntar was well fed, almost bursting thru his uniform and despite some cranky “anti-imperialists” who go on about Israel’s dungeons, Kuntar seems to have benefited from incarceration and got fat in the process, unlike inmates of British jails who invariably come out thinner than they go in.

Kuntar: ” I Love Jewish Food”

Bastard Israelis feeding this non-Jew with latkes, salt beef sandwiches (don’t trim the fat). cheesecake (wait two hours), chopped liver, stuffed neck……..

They KNOW that non-Jews can’t take this food and it will kill them before they reach 55!!

Cue UNHCR and B’Tselem

Now, when was exactly the moment you went from being a simply open eyed atheist to being a sick fuck?

You’re accusing ME of being a sick fuck whenever YOU debase yourself to such an extent that you don’t eat certain foods because a fucking book tells you not to?

The sheer gall of you!

Please just shut the fuck up, Morgoth. Look at the title of this thread.

Please just shut the fuck up, Morgoth. Look at the title of this thread.

If Modernity had his way, people would forget about Kuntar, all in the name of appeasement of irrationality.

Are you just taking the piss?

Morgoth,

I favour remembering the crimes of Kuntar, those who applaud him, why they did it and when

also I bear in mind that Satanist type cranks like you, Morgoth, are no real friend of the Jewish people, as your comments amply demonstrate

S.O.Muffin, have you considered the possibility that an IDF bullet might have killed the child and they pinned the blame on Kuntar? After all they’ve killed hundreds of Palestinian children, ‘by accident’.

Mark Elf makes the same points

A word on Samir Kuntar

Samir Quntar, a Lebanese Druze, left Israel’s dungeon today after three decades of imprisonment. He rejoins his family and, based on his words, the resistance. He is now being feted as a Lebanese hero. Kuntar is a Druze who joined the Palestinian resistance as a teenager and has been now ransomed by the Shite resistance. With his release, Hizbullah celebrates the final humiliation of Israel after the 2006 defeat. It’s a well deserved celebration. Let us soon see Israel’s other 11,000 (yes, that is eleven thousands) political prisoners free!

Ynet chose to quote another Druze (wonder why?) who thinks otherwise, Israel’s Deputy Foreign Minister Majalli Whbee said:

“The large celebration in honor of the despicable murderer Kuntar is a shame to the Lebanese people, whose leaders choose to celebrate the release of a man who prides himself on smashing the skull of four-year-old Einat Haran,” (Ynet July 16th, 2008)

According to the Western press, Samir Quntar is a monster who shot a hostage in the back and then smashed the skull of his 4 year old daughter. This is the account on the basis of which Quntar was sentenced to multiple life sentences. Check google and you’ll see that 99% of news and blogs take this account as fact. Why bother with checking facts when the issue is an Arab accused of killing a child?

Now, if Quntar did what he was accused of, then he is no doubt a monster. But did he? The facts leave ample room for doubts. Quntar maintains he did not kill either of his two alleged victims. How much value should one place on his word? I’m not sure, but had Quntar been so consumed with hatred as to smash the skull of a child, would he then care to deny it? That sound to me somewhat unlikely. And Quntar had nothing material to gain from his denial. He also killed a police officer, which he didn’t deny, and for which he would have been given a life sentence anyway. Furthermore, Quntar maintained his version even in private.

According to Quntar’s version, his mission was to take hostages, not to kill people. This is credible since that was the modus operandi of the Palestinian guerilla at the time. The whole trial, amazingly, was sealed and the records kept “top secret”. Only now parts of the file have been made public. The record shows he was convicted on the say so of the security forces who botched the mission to rescue the hostages.

However, in court, prosecution witness no. 4 testified that he saw Danny Haran stand up and shout, “Cease your fire, don’t shoot. My little girl is here.” Immediately thereafter he saw Danny shot by Kuntar. Testimony was also given in court by a doctor who ruled that Einat’s death had been caused by a direct blow with a blunt instrument, something like a stick or a rifle butt.

“Kuntar went over to Einat Haran and hit her head twice with the butt of his rifle, with the intent of killing her,” wrote the judges in their verdict. “The other defendant also struck her head forcefully.”

Why no mention of forensic evidence regarding the distance from which Danny Haran was shot? And why would Quntar, under fire, for whom the hostages represent his best chance to survive, kill them? And how did BOTH he AND his mate find the time, while police was closing in upon him with guns ablaze, to hit the girl repeatedly, and in few view of the police? And finally why were the police shooting in the direction of Quntar, knowing that he had or might have had hostages with him?

In the end, it comes down to Kuntar’s word against the word of unidentified police officers and a physician who works for the Israeli government. Quntar seems to have had no reason to lie. The police who botched their mission and might have been responsible for the death of the hostages did have a reason to lie. He was then convicted in an Israeli kangaroo court that makes the Guantanamo justice system look good in comparison, and the whole trial was so convincing that it was made “top secret.”

This looks so far as a tale spun out of facile assumptions, potential lies, and blatant lies–and of course the willful credulity of journalists and commentators. For example, where does the Deputy Foreign Minister of Israel take the nostrum that Quntar “prides himself on smashing the skull of four-year-old Einat Haran”? Whbee can stick his tongue anywhere he pleases, but can he at least avoid lies that can be disproved in two minutes of surfing?

I don’t know what happened on the beach that day. Perhaps Quntar did all that is attributed to him. Or perhaps the two victims were killed by “friendly” fire. I’ll believe it either way when the evidence is stronger than the say-so of Israel’s racist, corrupt and cavalier court system.

Whatever Quntar did however, Israel has no moral authority to judge him. Killing children is effectively legal in Israel as long as the child is Palestinian.

Take Imam al-Hams, for example, who took 17 (seventeen) bullets to her tiny body AFTER soldiers identified her on the radio as a ten year old girl. Her killer, who shot her from two feet away when she was lying on the ground, was cleared of all wrongdoing by an Israeli military court.

Or take the 948 Palestinian children killed by official state policy in the last eight years. There must be monsters all around in Israel. And what about the air-force pilots who dropped bombs on civilian targets in Lebanon two years ago? What about the pilot who dropped a bomb in Qana, killing dozens of children for example? Why isn’t he and his commanding officer in jail with a 5760 years sentence?

By all means, Israel should be tough on child murderers. A good place to start is with the “culture of impunity” of its officers and pilots. Then we can talk about Samir Quntar.

Yes resistor, the IDF killed the child and convinced her mother to claim to have witnessed the so-called murder, and to join in a conspiracy to pin the blame on poor Kuntar. They then manufactured a brain-splattered rifle and a bullet-less dead girl. After constructing this elaborate conspiracy on the fly during the night after a firefight, they then let Kuntar and another infiltrator live.

Kuntar obviously bore no ill will toward the girl or her family, and only wanted to take them for a stroll on the beach.

Seriously, clearly being stupid is required to accept the nonsense you and Flanker believe; but you two are now bordering on self-parody. In another thread this could be entertaining, but here it is just ghoulish:

The “alleged victims” were:

24-year old police officer Eliyahu Shahar,
32-year old Danny Haran
four-year old Einat Haran
two-year old Yael Haran

Remember.

Regards,

Inna

Resister, you and your buddy Kuntarman, by your defense of this child murderer have shown yoursevles to be as big a piece of scum as Kuntar is.

The Washington Post editorial on Kuntar, “An Unwelcome Hero: Hezbollah bargins for a child-killer’s freedom” ends with the following comment after repeating the usual platter about the need for a territorial compromise, the Vatican of American Political Correctness concludes:

“But attitudes among Israel’s enemies must be transformed as well. A good place to start woul be to declare that people such as Samir Kuntar deserve to rot in prison no matter what the religion or nationality of the children they kill.”

Google the tittle “An Unwelcome Hero” and click on first entry to read the whole editorial.

Kuntar, while still denying he bashed a child’s brains out, praises Israel for their treatment of him and their determination to have the bodies of theri soldiers returned to Israel. Read “Kuntar says envies enemy treatment of hostages” at http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3569961,00.html
for this incredible story.

also I bear in mind that Satanist type cranks like you, Morgoth, are no real friend of the Jewish people, as your comments amply demonstrate

I am no friend of Judaism, that much is true. But look at history – YOUR way is a continence of 2000 years of persecution and hatred of the Jewish people.

Muzzle it Morgoth.

Mark Elf didn’t write that piece resistor

you didn’t write this mark, did you?

orientalist elf | 07.17.08 – 11:07 pm | #

yes
Mark Elf (aka levi9909) | Homepage | 07.17.08 – 11:13 pm | #

Brave post Mark – Questions must be asked.

Ken Waldron | 07.17.08 – 11:40 pm | #

It was indeed a brave post. If only it was mine, but as people usually recognise from the question marks at the end of my headlines, I don’t do brave. It was Gabriel Ash
Mark Elf (aka levi9909) | Homepage | 07.18.08 – 12:39 am | #

“S.O.Muffin, have you considered the possibility that an IDF bullet might have killed the child and they pinned the blame on Kuntar?”

No, it didn’t, and the very reason why you are asking this question shows exactly what is your game. Kuntar was tried in an open court of law, with rules of evidence, lawyers, the works. For you Israeli jail is a “dungeon”, I would take it that an Israeli court is a “kangaroo court”. No, it isn’t. There is simply no way all relevant questions of this kind wouldn’t have been considered and raised in open court by lawyers for Kuntar. There weren’t, because it is the evidence that damned him. And it damns him, in the eyes of anybody with shred of humanity. Not in yours, and we can draw our own conclusions.

So, Kuntar claims that he didn’t bash Einat Haran’s brains with his pistol butt. And this, in your eyes, is the clinching evidence. Do you propose to apply this logic to all child murderers, or only to murderers of Israeli children?

Final point. You are mentioning Palestinian children killed by IDF. And you know what, you have a point here (and this is not the first time I am saying this on HP). A child killed is a child killed and for me (but not for you) children are not labelled by their ethnicity. But… There is not a shred of doubt that IDF doesn’t kill children deliberately. They are killed as part and parcel of military operations, as (what an awful phrase) collateral damage. In the most well-known example, IDF set to take out a terrorist mastermind, used a huge bomb in a built-up area to make sure that the “hit” works and ended up killing several Palestinian children. I take it that, from what you are saying, the intent of IDF pilots or their commanders is immaterial: once you drop a big bomb in a built-up area, you are responsible for “collateral damage”. Agreed?

If you are agreed, please explain to me why the same argument doesn’t work for Kuntar? If you take a family of noncombatants (including a 4-year old child) hostage at the dead of the night, take them to a dark beach, shoot at troops arriving to rescue them – aren’t you responsible for “collateral damage”? (Again, this was not “collateral damage”. It was an act of deliberate child-murder. But now I am acting on the “logic” of your argument.)

Either way, your argument doesn’t stand. You are a hypocrite.

Ian Black in the Guardian today “reports” (and I use the quotes advisedly, given the disgusting editorialising) that Israel is flaunting its “moral victory” (his quotes) in the prisoner-for-bodies swap, with an Arabic-language clip on YOuTube that condemns Hizbollah for treating a child murderer as a hero.

s.o.muffin and his mates are prepared to believe everything the Israeli authorities say – I don’t. They would have had a strong motive to frame Kuntar and shift the blame from themselves. The Israelis story clearly stinks to high heaven. As for the IDF not killing children deliberately – don’t make me laugh. A thousand accidents?

Kuntar, like resistor, totally lacks, and desperately needs, some capability for introspection. Even if one accepts their conspiracy theories about the girl’s death, it still takes a peculiar kind of imbecility by a self-described kidnaper of a 4 year old to state “[...] he felt disregard for human beings’ value in Arab countries”

resistor, go back to lick your picture of Hitler.

Tim,

So Elf’s got a co-author for more deranged rantings at JSF?

could it be the same Gabriel Ash that wrote “Zionist Control in the Pentagon”?

you’ll often see such filth plastered over neo-nazi sites like Stormfront or at David Irving’s, which is hardly coincidental

resistor:

According to you the Jews spend all their time murdering Jews, Christians and Muslims.

Tell me, when have we time to eat?

So many people to kill, so little time…

Regards,

Inna

Kuntar, George Galloway, Talksport, 19th July 2008, 11:20pm

In response to a caller who complained that ONLY the Israeli side’s opinion gets heard over the swap Galloway replies (not verbatim):-

“Well I’m not sure why Kuntar was in prison, I heard the Israelis mentioned a reason and if that is true then what he did was sinful” (However Galloway did not articulate what this ’sinful’ act was)

He then goes on to berate Israelis for killing more Lebanese and Palestinians than Israelis have been killed. Obviously this would be a lot fairer if there were more Israeli dead.

And then the propaganda is in favour of Israel because they speak English but the Arabs don’t “in fact a lot of them speak it with an American accent. Haven’t you heard them on the tv/radio?”

Oh, and he thought that the time he spent in prison was too long.

Fabian from Israel writes, ‘resistor, go back to lick your picture of Hitler.’

His blog claims that he has an ‘M.A. in International Relations at Tel Aviv University’ and a ‘B.A. in History at the University of Buenos Aires.’

Now I understand the Israeli approach to International Relations and the Argentinian perspective on history.

No, I don’t think you do. A Hitler-licker like you cannot understand approaches and perspectives that appeared after the bunker in Berlin was razed.

Mod.
He did try to pass it off as his own work first you’ll notice.

Funny that the HP crowd lauds child killers like Shamir, Sharon, Begin , Eitan et al

Kuntar should have got 6 months in jail . 30 years is a disgraceful punishment

” The Jerusalem District Court sentenced Nahum Korman, 36, to six months of community service and a 70,000 shekels ($17,500) fine for the killing of Hilmi Shusha, 11, in the West Bank in October 1996.
…The prosecution contended that Korman beat and kicked the child, knocked him down, put his foot on the boy’s neck and struck him with a pistol. The boy suffered a head injury and a fractured spinal cord and died the next day in a hospital (CNN, January 22, 2001)”

Interesting that it was the Israeli state itself that appealed the original sentence of the regional court, so that it reached the Supreme Court, and there he was convicted.

The Supreme Court ruled that it was manslaughter by negligence, since Korman tried to resucitate the boy when he saw that he was not responding. The Israeli Supreme Court returned the case to the Jerusalem District Court to decide on the sentence.

There there was bargain between the prosecution and the defense, and the sentence was then fixed by this negotiation, not by the court. The complete sentence was 6 months of community service, 15 months of suspended prison sentence (probation) and the fine.
Sources:
http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%99%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%99_%D7%A9%D7%95%D7%A9%D7%90
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/1,7340,L-250268,00.html

Korman should have been, of course, rotting in jail. In a cell adjoining Kuntar’s.

But the difference is that nobody, not even the worst lunatic in Israel, ever declared Korman a national hero.

‘But the difference is that nobody, not even the worst lunatic in Israel, ever declared Korman a national hero.’ Maybe because he didn’t kill as many as Baruch Goldstein.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/685792.stm

‘Tuesday, 21 March, 2000, 19:19 GMT
Graveside party celebrates Hebron massacre

Militant Jews have gathered at the grave of Baruch Goldstein to celebrate the sixth anniversary of his massacre of Muslim worshippers in Hebron.

The celebrants dressed up as the gunman, wearing army uniforms, doctor’s coats and fake beards. ‘

I know a troll. He lives in a basement flat and has few friends as he eschews all contact with ayone who happens to disagree with him. He very probably suffers from narcissistic personality disorder.