Harry’s Place

The Muslim Brotherhood’s Billy Graham.

I have recently travelled by road from northern Norway to the UK via western Europe. Not much evidence of this Moslem majority as yet; indeed very little sign until the attractively varied population of the UK.

This is frequently repeated claim. It assumes that there will be no influences on the youngsters born to Moslems living in these societies. But there will be. A Moslem friend told me his children were turned away from a British mosque for wearing jeans. They never went back.

“The demographic assumption upon which Amr Khaled’s thesis rest are dubious. They assume that birthrate trends continue indefinitely, and that cultural religious groups remain homogenous and unchanged over time. Those are very shaky foundations, in my view.”

To put it mildly. So why post a piece entitled “Within 20 Years Muslims Will become the Majority in Europe”, when that claim is complete bollocks?

To put it mildly. So why post a piece entitled “Within 20 Years Muslims Will become the Majority in Europe”, when that claim is complete bollocks?

It is a quote, you berk. The quotation marks are a clue.

Anon: Mr T has put the title within quotation marks. He is citing a quote, not his own opinion. Try to keep up.

I believe in these peoples mind, me and my family are also in that statistics counted as ‘muslims’ because we were born in Iran. I know at least half the so called “muslims” in Sweden are not practicing any religion but still being used in propaganda purpose to create fear among ordinary citizens that their ‘Christianity’ is in danger.

This would be an ecumenical matter.

The broader point that David T is making is surely to question that such nutters - or at the best, obsessives - are given importance by the government.

Devoutly religious Brown and his many believing colleagues seem to have taken it upon themeslves to give religious groups of all kinds privileged positions in policy and welfare delivery responsbility (on consultative committees, and in such as the New Deal for the workless, delivered by the YMCA in many parts of the country, and much wider plans are on the way to expand religious groups’ welfare power). In this vein their response to Islamism is to incorporate moderate (undefined) Muslims through subsidy and the usual raft of pompous consultations.

How spending public money on one set of god-bothering relatively tolerant glazed-eye religious enthusiasts to defeat another set of pop-eyed enthusiasts is going to rid us of the root cause of Islamicism’s intolerance - belief in literal readings of the Qur’an and the Sharia, which both agree upon, is perhaps beyond the wisdom of mere mortals.

That’s the point.

Classic stuff. This is beyond paranoid conspiracy. From the video -

“Therefore, their solution is to continue the provocation against the Muslims, and to continue to do things that would provoke the Muslims, who would make mistakes, such as bombings, and other unusual responses. Then the European people would say, ‘What’s this? What are they doing?’ Then they would have a pretext for what would follow.”

If only it wasn’t so easy to trip those Muslims up into silly little mistakes like bombings!

Its interesting to see how this loon and Geert Wilders agree on so many of the issues. Its lucky that we have Michael Buerk acting as a bulwark of wilful ignorance to protect us.

If the government keeps supporting Islamic clerics that turn out to be raving nutcases of one kind or another, perhaps that a sign that raving nutcases are the rule not any sort of exception.

David T, you don’t understand what moderate means, when used by the government. “moderate” = barking mad, but not murderous

“moderate” = barking mad, but not murderous

Surely you mean “not murderous in this country”? Viz Qaradawi, etc.

The Muslim Brotherhood and Al Quaeda have similar goals. The Islamisation of Europe and of the globe. They just have different tactics. This guy reveals his hard-line totalitarianist Islamism is no different from AQ’s.

Wilders grasps this. The Hamas leader’s son grasps this. When will political leaders wake up to the fact that in today’s world ‘Islam’ is more of a political ideology than a religion for ‘private use’?

I disagree about Brown, BTW. He’s as theologically illiterate as any secular liberal on Islam.

This is also the view of Douglas Murray (a highly unstable individual on the verge of an aneurysm).

This is also the view of Douglas Murray (a highly unstable individual on the verge of an aneurysm).

Cite?

Doulglas Murray? CSC? Would that be what Osama Saeed, the Muslim Brotherhood prospective parliamentary candidate for Glasgow Central, called a ‘right-wing stink tank’?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxAJKfoixhQ

TheIrie believes that gay rights are protected in Dutch Mosques?

Stuart believes incest is obligatory on Tuesdays in Utah?

TheIrie, are you quite mad?

You claimed Murray is highly unstable, which presumably means that you disagree with the statements you flagged. Then you start talking about Utah. In the video Murray makes no mention of Utah that I heard.

It never ceases to amaze me how preachers tend to assume they owe the conscience of their ‘flock’.

‘It never ceases to amaze me how preachers tend to assume they owe the conscience of their ‘flock’.’

Not just preachers, Sarah. How about trade union leaders?

As a member of UCU I find it objectionable that am told what I believe by Sally Hunt! Hunt speaks on behalf of ‘all members’ to give her opinion by dissing CSC’s recent research into Muslim attitudes to sharia (40% in favour) at British universities!

The UCU is a sick totalitarian organisation that doesn’t give a shit what the actual members think. It won’t hold a ballot of members on the proposed Israel boycott. That’s because they know they wouldn’t win.

And in 19 years we will have the BNP and other right-wing Governments in power.

In 21 years Muslims will be a minority in Europe again but the Middle East and Pakistan will have lots of new faces.

‘The University and College Union (UCU), like the majority of people, takes the threat of terrorism seriously. We welcome the recent emphasis the government has put on community cohesion in regards to tackling violent extremism, but we reject the headline-grabbing tactics of groups such as CSC.

Sally Hunt, UCU general secretary’

Interesting that he notes that ‘freedom of speech’ is a key ‘doctrine’ of the secular ‘religion’ of Europe without of course giving it any respect as a ‘religion’.

The strategy outlined by this preacher seems to have become common in Islamist circles.

There simply isn’t any point in committing acts of mass murder against a culture and civilisation that doubles over, spreads its cheeks and enthusiastically allows itself to be conquered.

As for the planned expulsions? Not on yer life!

The arrogance of europeans is such that they actually believe their culture to be immutable and permenant, when in fact it can easily be expropriated.

Native europeans have a very low bithrate. Muslims have a very high birthrate bulked up by mass immigration, a mass immigration which is increasing, and which is aided and abetted by both The Left AND the business community.

Added to this demographic nightmare is that fact that tens of millions of ageing euro-boomers will be popping their clogs over the next two decades.

Currently, over 40% of the children born in France are born to Muslim parents. This figure, obviously, will soon hit top 50%.

Now, any half-fool who can avail himself of basic arithmetic knows where this leads.

“L’empire Éclaté”, that’s where.

What’s more, in a craven gesture of precapitulation, the french have gone the extra mile ( kilometre?) of adding an entire wing to the Louvre to “celebrate the finesse” of islamic art.

No one flies the flag of finesse like The French. Not even Hyacinthe Bucket ( pronounced Boo-kay).

Europeans are like those stunned deer one sees standing on the roads in Ontario’s Algonquin Park in late evening. They’ll remain there mesmerised, staring into the headlights of an oncomming logging truck until it runs them right over.

Its interesting to see how this loon and Geert Wilders agree on so many of the issues.

See what I mean?

If Muslims become a majority in Europe, there is nothing anyone can do about it without following the Nazi route. But Muslims won’t be a majority in Europe, so it’s not even an issue.

Many Muslims are not particularly political. There are large Turkish ethnic groups in Europe, but few take religion seriously and even fewer are political about it. But they will not be the ones represented in delegations to the government - it will be the political few, who are more likely to be the radicals.

Well Amr Khaled is indeed right, the day we will see muslim soccermoms, then muslims will be a success in vestern europe

over 40% of the children born in France are born to Muslim parents

A lie

‘And in 19 years we will have the BNP and other right-wing Governments in power’ - the useful idiots gambit of fellow travelling. You are still Franz Von Papen and etc etc…

Many Muslims are not particularly political. There are large Turkish, Maghrebi and Pakistani ethnic groups in Europe, but few take religion seriously and even fewer are political about it.
But when they feel like expressing themselves aggressively,from driving cars in the street like it is a playground, or making their presence felt in an intimidating way, (I can give specific examples I have been involved in or witnessed in the UK, France, Belgium and Denmark) the old “warrior” Muslim badge becomes their convenient shield and a bad pattern of behaviour persists.

‘As for the planned expulsions? Not on yer life!’

No, Us effete decadent Europeans don’t have the foresight and moral clarity of the sainted Serbian Ultra-nationalists.

Basically this is the exhaltation of Liberal decay and stagnation undated from the fin de Siecle crisis with added demographic. It is hardly surprising that manicheans on both sides are so obsessed by it. It fortifies their notions of them and us, it makes the end of the liberal Kali Yuga seem at hand.

John Palubiski - “Currently, over 40% of the children born in France are born to Muslim parents. This figure, obviously, will soon hit top 50%.”

That’s.Such.Bullshit.

John Palubiski - “What’s more, in a craven gesture of precapitulation, the french have gone the extra mile ( kilometre?) of adding an entire wing to the Louvre to “celebrate the finesse” of islamic art.”

Because anything other than constantly screaming Islam is evil into the face of a Muslim is a form of capitulation, right?

The demographic assumption upon which Amr Khaled’s thesis rest are dubious. They assume that birthrate trends continue indefinitely, and that cultural religious groups remain homogenous and unchanged over time.

Oh, more than that. Whether it’s coming from Amr Khaled or your average wingnut, this prediction can only come true if all Muslims in Europe under-go bodily mitosis on a monthly basis for the next two decades.

Man, you guys are something special? What is this the British Nazi Wannabe Party?

The multicult experiment has turned Frankenstien on us, and we wont be able to handwring our way out of it.

Mike does it scare you that “others” can participate in discussion on internet? What do you suggest a universal firewall to stop non-whites and non-christians to participate :)

Back in the 70s, when I first read “L’empire Éclaté”, a work that argued for the impending collapse of the Soviet Union because of, though not exclusively due to, Muslim demographics, I thought the author had fallen on her fucking head.

Back in the Brechznev years the Soviet Union looked utterly invincible.

And where is it now?

Raggin’ on me for the Serbs and for France’s Muslim birthrate won’t make the probleme go away.

The French vaunt the fact *their* birthrate is the only one in Europe that is higher than the replacement rate.

The fact they’ve also the largest muslim community in Europe is but sheer coincidence, right?

C’est Molièresque!

C’est un cas de voila pourquoi ta fille est malade!

You see, when one subtracts the paltry number of babies born to native french women from that birthrate, it soon becomes clear just who is replacing whom.

And talking about this issue is a bit like trying to convincec hardcore leftists about the murderous nature of Hamas.

Even when a convert emerges and repeats the *islamophobic* pro-pos of the pro-Israel crowd, those leftists still won’t believe it.

An example: Oh, more than that. Whether it’s coming from Amr Khaled or your average wingnut, this prediction can only come true if all Muslims in Europe under-go bodily mitosis on a monthly basis for the next two decades.

What is the true number of Muslims living in France?

France’s elites don’t really want to know, and generally place the number at around 5 million.

However, more realistic figures, the ‘islamophobic’ ones, put the number as high as 8 million.

There are now whole islands of Islam in France where french law, for all practical purposes, is no longer applied, and acres of surburan sprawl where french police no longer dare venture to apply that law.

Every year these islands expand, and people who’ve frequented France, and in particular Paris since the 70s, (as some of my French Canadian workmates have) know this to be true.

The West has just begun the 21st century, but long before it will have elapsed, we could well find ourselves back at the beginning of the 12th.

An important point. Although I agree that Muslims will not be a majority in Europe within 20 years, they will be firmly entrenched in Europe within 10.

If current demographics remain, their numbers will grow steadily. This reality can be dismissed, but the results are suicidal.

When Muslims become too prevalent for comfort are Europeans going to try to convince them to stop breeding, or will they suggest something more exctreme?

I wonder what the responses will be if the current trend does remain as it is now for the next 20 years.

I was thinking that the 40% of all children born in France was close to the truth, but in 10 years time 40% of people below 21 will be Muslim. I will have sold up and left France by then.

The Soviet Union collapsed, in part, because of rising birthrates of Muslims? Is this seriously your argument?

Man, you guys are something special? What is this the British Nazi Wannabe Party?

Didn’t read the post I take it

“Mike does it scare you that “others” can participate in discussion on internet? What do you suggest a universal firewall to stop non-whites and non-christians to participate :)”

No I prefer to leave the hair brained censoring up to repressive regiems like Iran, I find it frankly amazing how recorded stonings get hushed up so well. Besides its individuals like Amr Khaled which seem to think they live in insulated societies after all he is the one forcasting/promoting a cultural revolution in Europe.

“The arrogance of europeans is such that they actually believe their culture to be immutable and permenant, when in fact it can easily be expropriated.” – John Palubiski.

Somewhere in this stew of words is a meaning struggling to get out. Actually, I think it might help if certain people’s expropriated European culture; Americans for example.

Mr Palubiski clearly believes certain things as givens. Firstly, all Moslems are the same and incapable of assimilating by choice as have, to give examples, the Chinese or Jews. Secondly, that the effects of a living culture only work in one direction. But the essential fact in which Mr Palubiski seemingly believes is that democracies are weak, effete, and (inter alia) must be saved from themselves. Now where have I heard that before?

Well, John Palubiski, what do you propose to do about it? Muslims are citizens and unless you are going to forcibly convert them, strip them of citizenship and expel them or liquidate them, you’re going to have to put up with them, aren’t you?

The Soviet Union collapsed, in part, because of rising birthrates of Muslims? Is this seriously your argument?

It isn’t *my* argument. It was the argument of the author of the work cited, and I believe it’s now safe to say she’s been vindicated.

In the Soviet Union Muslim birthrates remained very, very high, whereas those of ethnic Russinas and Ukranians plumeted.

One of the main reasons the USSR imploded was because there were no longer a sufficient number of ethnic Russians to maintain effective contrôle over the Central Asian “Stans”,

In the 60s the Soviet Union was, at best, 20% Muslim. Were it still around today that figure would probably be well over 60%.

But the essential fact in which Mr Palubiski seemingly believes is that democracies are weak, effete, and (inter alia) must be saved from themselves. Now where have I heard that before?

My, my Larkers. I’m bulking up an uncertain and fragile masculinity (flips wrist!) by trashing effete democracy?

Such profound insight.

Bet you hold a Masters Degree.

Newsflash!

It isn’t democracy itself that is effete, but rather some of the slovenly inhabitants of said democracy who feel that all can be maintained without having to think nary a negative thought about anything or anyone.

People like you.

For those of you hoping (rocks self gently back and forth) that Muslim birthrates will decline as assimilation to a western way of life proceeds, need only take a look at the high, and remaining so, muslim birthrates of both Bosnia and Albania and compare them with the birthrates of non-muslims in The Balkans.

Had an interesting experience while on vacation in Québec’s Lac St-Jean a few weeks back.

The region is isolated, has virtually NO immigration and a very low birthrate typical of most western nations.
It presents a portrait of what The West would look like sans immigration.

I didn’t get it at first. Everywhere I went I was served by people with salt ‘n pepper hair. I thought that the young people must have been attending a music festival somewhere, or something cuz, like, I don’t believe in the Pied Piper.

Exasperated, I finally approached a middle-aged waitress and asked her where all the young people were.

She looked at me, cocked her head sideways and asked: “What do you mean?”

My guess-and you might want to disagree-is that most of ‘em were washed down the sinks at local abortion clinics.

At the behest of various, nefarious boyfriends.

Islamists will not need a Muslim majority to take control of Western Europe. They just need to continue to intimidate the majority with violence and threat of violence which is working very well for them untill the majority surrenders to the Islamists for the sake of “peace in our time”.

Amr Khaled would seem to be to the Islamic demographic threat what Al Gore is to the carbon emissions Climate change threat!

“Bet you hold a Masters Degree.”

You loose. Please pay a small sum into a charity.

A gentleman can never be said to have arrived. You will not understand that, but, then, that is the whole point.

when I read john pabusky I feel an urge to convert to islam and have 15 children just to make him happy!

but then again, my mother is not a muslim and she had 12.

now i am a bit confused.

once pabuski reacted to a comment of mine saying that big families were a terrible thing, etc, etc, etc.

now he is implicitely criticizing families of native european origin for their low birth rates.

I am confused.

but I am dumb, so it’s normal that i am confused. My genes are weak, it’s probably because in the middle ages my ancestors all spoke arabic or something like that.

what strikes me is that people who worry about the demographic strategy always refrain from suggesting what should be done to go against it, namely: mass sterilizations, expulsions and God knows what else will cross into their sick minds, plus sending the native european women home to become baby factories like ceausescu wanted to do with romanian women with the fine results that we know.

david all:
it’s not only a matter of intimidation, but also of indifference. I’ve had very bitter disagreaments with women who call themselves progressives for criticizing their multi-culturalist ideals and i have been accused of not respecting other people’s cultures for considering that it is important t defend the rights of women of non-european culture. On their black and white mentalities, I was a racist who was patronizing those ‘cultures’.

many people prefer to defend an abstraction called ‘culture’, that is essentialized and sterotyped versions of non-european cultures, than to stand up for concrete cases of people who are oppresed by their in-group.

in this sense I totally agree with hirsi ali criticisms regarding dutch society.

David T

You state the demographic assumptions are ”dubious”, and that the foundation’s of the argument are ”very shaky”.

Why does that not reassure me, Islam IS changing Europe, The multicultural state was designed to give smaller marginalised groups a disproportionate political voice, But none up to know have had the potential to use it for anything more than getting recognition of their right to be treated like everybody else.

Islam has an entirely different agenda, It doesnt want to be accepted like other social groups, It demands not equality but recognition of it’s difference and special ‘rights’, and no group in europe is more homogenous than muslims

Maybe you are correct and i’m totally wrong, But i think it’s a question of ‘watch this space’…..closely.

I’d love to have 12 children

However

- they’re expensive

- they’re time consuming.

Birthrates go down in Western societies, for people of all cultural origins, once their socioeconomic status alters.

It is possible, though, to choose a life of poverty and child rearing. My guess is that this will work for a generation or two at the most. After that, the temptations of the west will be too great.

Has anybody looked at the demographics of third/fourth generation birthrates

I think you also have to make a distinction between Islamist organisations, and people who are Muslims.

Islamist organisations may well agitate in precisely the way you describe: and will do so in the name of Muslims. They have zero legitimacy. They have no mandate to represent Muslims. And, in any case, a modern state should neither outsource or defer to pressure groups when setting its policies.

I know some Muslims who are active Islamists, but many many more who are hugely opposed to this politics.

david T: whenever you fell like having 12 children you can trow a party for your kids and invite their class mates :-)

it’s much more practical, I am sure my mother would agree.

islamist organizations say that to turn muslims into their hostages and to provoke a hostile reaction on the part of mainstream society so that then the muslims will feel forced to close ranks.

people like john pabuski are doing islamist extremists a favour. they are lending them an appearance of legitimacy that of course they don’t have.

but then again, my mother is not a muslim and she had 12.

now i am a bit confused.

once Palubski reacted to a comment of mine saying that big families were a terrible thing, etc, etc, etc.

now he is implicitely criticizing families of native european origin for their low birth rates: Sarah Franco@ 6:54 PM

Yes, you’re confused.

And a grande coquette!

You look up.

You look down.

You look left.

You look right.

But you never look straight ahead.

Very large families ( my aunt had 11) are wrong because it is an abuse of women and also because there is little quality in the upbringing of the kids, owing to the fact there are so goddamned many of them.

However, to overreact and to then limit family size to…say… a stingey 1.111 children per female, as is now the case all over The West, is just as stupid.

Ever heard of the *just mean*, Sarah?

What sayeth thou to 3 OR 4 kids before crossing legs and encountering menopause?

Islamists will not need a Muslim majority to take control of Western Europe. They just need to continue to intimidate the majority with violence and threat of violence which is working very well for them untill the majority surrenders to the Islamists for the sake of “peace in our time”.

I agree, and here’s an example of how they’re doing it:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121797979078815073.html

Being born in ‘57, I’ve spent my entire life listening to people born in ‘47 speaking-truth-to-power, denouncing The Vatican, the CofE, the Lutherens and the Baptists.

And it is this same shallow, superficial generation that has dominated gov’t and business for the past 20 years.

Not to mention the publishing industry.

Freedom of speech isn’t some passive piece of legislation filed away somewhere in a vault.

It is a work in progress and must be constantly defended by successive generations actively upholding its prinicples.

Failure to uphold those principles vis a vis islam, means we will one day be condemned to embrace it.

It’s just that simple.

And I must say that the denial encountered on this thread has been overwhelming.

That said, I tend to disagree with the timeleine established by this cleric.

It won’t happen in just 20 years.

It could perhaps take 25.

well, in 25 years I hope to be around to check if you are right.

it just happens that if we look into the past we find all kinds of catastrophic predictions for the following 20 to 25 years that never became true.

so allow me some scepticism.

Well, John Palubiski, what do you propose to do about it?

Any proposals I’d put on the table would immediately be pounced upon and declared racist by the likes of Dany-the-red or B. Kouchner.

I’d love to know the identities of those who concoted our current immigration policies (and social ones), if only to charge them with treason.

What individual, in his/her right mind, would ever import 10s of millions of people from a culture that has shown Europe nothing but hostility for the past 14 centuries?

It’s insanity, and it’s an insanity borne of naked greed that defends itself by labelling all those who oppose it as *racist* and *bigot*.

Think about it, if multiculturalism can, as some maintain, suck and blow at the same time, and if it was as peachy-keen and as cutesy-pie as so many in the boardrooms claim, then what the fuck happened to the Austro-Hungarian empire?

And that brings me right back to “L’empire Eclate”

Remember Chamberlain and Daladier, remember the Munich spirit. The présent denial attitude is exactly the same. And yet Amr Khaled is showing exactly what is happening and we bury ou heads in the sand.

David T wrote: And, in any case, a modern state should neither outsource or defer to pressure groups when setting its policies.

In the real world of modern state-dom, all too often, they do!

Sometimes, this is fairly benign, and the social consequences are pretty neutral or even arguably, slightly positive - such as the consequences of the lobbying by the NRA in America in relation to the freedom of civilian Americans to own and discharge firearms.

Sometimes, it is very distinctly malign, such as the excessive deference to the imperatives of superstitious organisations. I have in mind the British state’s funding of superstition centric education in the UK and in the quite notably excessive ‘bending over backwards’ to Islamic ‘proclivities’.

“The broader point that David T is making is surely to question that such nutters - or at the best, obsessives - are given importance by the government.”

However, when an anti-Muslim bigot like Melanie Phillips - who is regularly given a platform by the BBC - repeatedly makes hysterical predictions about the Islamisation of Europe, based on an equally ridiculous demographic analysis, Harry’s Place does not regard that as worthy of mention, still less hostile criticism.

“I’d love to have 12 children

However

- they’re expensive

- they’re time consuming.”

Good for you David. But you are approaching that analysis from a very westernised and modern point of view. You are assuming that you would be expected to pay for the upkeep of 12 children. In fact you would probably feel embarassed at the thought of topping up your income with state handouts. You are also assuming that it would be unfair to impose such a burden of work on your wife.

The adherents of islam hardly care about such things. There is, in the islamic tradition, no shame in taking money from infidels. Islam has always reserved the right to tax infidels. And a steady stream of brides being brought in from the subcontinent means a continuation of the subservient status of islamic women as brood mares and beasts of burden. Illiteracy and innumeracy are great insulators from the influence of western society.

We have come to regard certain human traits as universal. The ambition to be successful, comfortable, to fit in and be respectable and well liked. The feeling that we are all equal, all first class citizens, regardless of colour, creed, gender, disability. Those aspirations are not universal at all. If they were, we would not have seen persecution and mass murder in the former Yugoslavia, the Sudan, Burma, Cambodia, Zimbabwe, Rwanda etc.

It’s about time we stopped viewing the world through beer-goggles. We have no excuse for doing this, it is infantile, and it makes me wonder: Who is really in denial here?

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

In other words- pay up sucker.

And the preacher in your article has effectively broken cover, and he is shouting “Guys, guys, pull your horns in- we have overplayed our hand. The filthy kaffirs have rumbled us.”

And I reckon he has a point.

The Prophet Muhammed (May the Peace and Blessings of God Be Upon Him) stated in an authentic narration, that on the Day of Recompense & Ressurection there will be Prophets of God (Peace Be upon them) who will have small groups standing behind them, indeed some will have nobody (ie they called to the Oneness and Worship of the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, but their nations rebuked them), but my Ummah (community) on that Day will be the greatest, as I am the final Messenger to mankind. In other narrations the Prophet (pbuh) encouraged the formation of bigger families with the requisite that children are nurtured upon the Truth, morality, God conciousness and righteousness. So you see Muslims are obliged to have large families where the children are taught that there is much more to existence than this transitory period of 60 years (if your lucky) and that there is an eternal life to come where the only currency will be virtueous deeds and worship. With such emphasis on the Hereafter people who have entered the fold Islam in its totality resent the notions of disrespect towards their parents, drinking till th cows come home with the odd cry of ‘Get yer tits ouuuut’, or living life without a moral compass. Anyway its late now, must go and enjoy some ladies and gentelman with the wife, we have 4 and counting…God Bless You and Britain.

Has anybody looked at the demographics of third/fourth generation birthrates

But the balkans are subject to much the same pressures as other regions of The West, and yet Muslim birthrates there remain as high as ever.

In fact, they may be partly to blame for the events of the 90s.

Also, the fact that second and even third generation Muslims living in western countries can be more radicalised than their parent’s generation bodes very badly for those hoping birthrates will decline.

Why? Because islamic fundamentalism is extremely misogynistic, and as a general rule of thumb, the more women are disempowered, the more children they tend to have.

My guess is that this will work for a generation or two at the most. After that, the temptations of the west will be too great.

You guess?

I once watched a french documentary ( well, several actually) about the problemes of unassimilated Muslims in the ‘hexagone’,

In one segment the journos interviewed a Turkish women who’d arrived in France in ‘79, who still couldn’t speak a word of french, who remained completely apart from french society and who had 9 children after arriving.

At one point she was asked about why she had had so many kids.

She stated that had she remained in Turkey she’d have had fewer ( “only” six) of them, but that seeings France’s welfare systeme was so generous, she decided to avail herself of every publique sous ‘available’ in order to have YET more offspring.

I might even add that for some Muslims The West’s ‘temptations’, far from being desirable, often serve to galvanise and intensify the faith even further.

The website below is a bit over the top, but the story remains true nonetheless.

http://sheikyermami.com/2008/02/12/we-will-outbreed-you-with-the-bellies-of-our-women-update/

Sarah Franco: You have the current mentality of the typical western multi-culturalists right. They are convinced that “western” values are inheritly bad and non-western values are inheritly good. When confronted with evidence to the contrary they inevitably cite past western offences such as colonialism or the crusades etec as the reason a non-white or “people of color” such as Muslims from the Middle East would be intolerant of criticism. These multi-culturalists frequently end up in effect defending values such as killing gays and oppressing women as result of siding with those who are intolerant because they are considered non-western and therefore by definition right.

It is at best dangerous and at worst suicidal for a culture to defend those who are intolerant of differing viewpoints. But that is what happening particularly in Western Europe, but also in the United States as well as Asra Nomani’s column in today’s Wall Street Journal points out. She writes about the suppression of a historical novel based on the life of Aisha, a young wife of the Prophet Mohammed. With editors and publishers giving in to the mere hint of Islamist Terrorism, the road to surrender for the sake of avoiding trouble is well advanced. Thank you, John Palubiski for linking to this disturbing story.

Note: Asra Nomani knows well the price of Islamist Terrorism. She was a close friend and colleague of murdered Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. It was at her house in Karachi, Pakistan in early 2002 that Daniel and his wife Marianne were staying at when he was abducted by Islamist terrorists who latter beheaded him.

Currently, over 40% of the children born in France are born to Muslim parents. This figure, obviou