Harry's Place

Good. I like Biden.

You “admire” a politician, Gene?

A grudging respect is generally as far as I go.

Winds up question for 30 seconds, …

Yes.

A man that eloquent has to be liked. If the Kinnock issue is the best they can do, the Joe is teflon man. Which means he can deliver and draw fire on McCain’s campaign to keep the heat off the more vulnerable Obama.

I am pretty surprised by the choice. It may work out, but I was expecting someone more leathery than a Delaware lawyer. Ideally that’s what Obama wanted I surmise, but had to go for the FP experience.

Benjamin,

Who do the Dems have that is more leathery than Joe? We’re talking about Irish Catholic from Scranton, PA. (Coal mining).

jdwill, it’s always good to keep in mind that Benjamin knows a lot less about US politics than he thinks he does.

Excellent.

I suspect he’ll shred Romney in the VP debate,and more importantly, kick holes in McCains increasingly bizarre Foreign policy confusions.
His son will be fighting in Iraq when McCain goes into “I was a POW” overload.
Shoring up Pennsylvania and helping in Ohio and Michigan are further benefits.

And he knows how many houses he has.

Good, I have to say as well, to give some sanity to the Democrat ticket, led by a man whom I distrust margionally more than McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPOAKXBi9Pw

A noun, a verb and 9/11… wa-haha!

I wonder,if McCains campaign goes on with the POW stuff ,even on unrelated issues such as knowing how many houses you have

Speaking to the Washington Post, aide Brian Rogers, in full damage-control mode, acknowledged that his boss had “some investment properties and stuff,” but added: “This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years — in prison.”

whether ” a noun a verb and prisoner of war” will appear.

Props to Joe for identifying Pakistan as a major source of trouble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRJ2us-0ZaU&feature=user

I have alternately been pissed at him for being the equivalent of a hockey enforcer (goon) for domestic issues and assorted political infighting, but taken aback and suprised about his strong foreign policy stances (which were not on the party plank).

A good choice. Certainly one that goes some way towards addressing some of my concerns about Obama.

(And, yes, excellent response to the question by the gun-nut, too)

Now this is twisty (I had almost forgotten it). Joe Biden urged John McCain to run as John Kerry’s mate in 2004

I’m pretty sure this was before Kerry hit headwinds from the SBVFT ads. Was Joe thinking John Kerry needed foreign policy and military veteran butressing at this time? McCain would have been a cross-party ticket, a real rarity. Maybe Biden really likes McCain. This should be interesting.

Biden certainly helps in PA, although I think the Dems will win that anyway. I think he helps a bit in VA, and that’s important. However, I think Obama would have preferred Kaine, but he didn’t have that FP experience. Biden’s okay as a steady-as-you establishment figure to reassure those that need reassuring. Black man for president? They need coaxing…

jdwill,
The next few days will be full of Biden giving reasons why he’s lost faith in McCain.
Such as this one.

Biden called me in June to express his amazement that McCain continued to insist that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the leader of Iran, even after I pointed out–during a press conference–that the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei controlled Iran’s foreign policy and nuclear program. McCain’s response was that the “average American” thought Ahmadinejad was Iran’s leader…and Biden proceeded to jump all over that in a subsequent interview with Think Progress:

“I don’t want an average American as president. I have great respect for average — average Americans don’t want an average American president of the United States of America. I want someone above average. I want someone who knows what they’re dealing with. And it surprises me that John didn’t understand the complexities of the power struggle going on in Iran right now.”

So much for “Change” eh?

The Obamessiah has just invalidated his entire campaign strategy. Is that the whiff of hypocrisy in the air?

jdwill

I think McCain correctly figured out that helping a Democrat get elected as president was kinda odd, considering his pretty solid conservative voting record. The Democrats might have worked out they would have look simply callow opportunists in getting him to run. Absolute non-starter, methinks.

That’s a great response though, Gene.

“If that’s his baby, he needs help”.

Absolutely.

Tim,
Right. That will almost certainly be one of the lines of attack. And Biden has the props to do it. But, he has many positive statements on record about McCain as they are both cross-aisle players. At least this won’t be boring.

Do you reckon the Number of houses issue counts against McCain choosing Romney?

“If one of your criteria for choosing a president is his ability to make smart decisions on important matters”

Well, yes, I think we all agree that it’s a more important criterion than being able to lie his head off, for which Princess Messiah holds gold, silver and bronze.

He is also the first Biden in a thousand generations of Bidens to be a VP candidate AND to attend the University of Aberystweth.

I think tim is expecting too much from the “number of houses”.
But Mc.Cain might think, Joe Lieberman will do better against
Biden than Romney.

Joe Lieberman is a FP true hawk and probably smarter about it than McCain, but is too strong of a domestic liberal for the base. Too risky for the ticket and doesn’t add a significant new dimension other than pro-choice, methinks.

On the lighter side, Bill Clinton declined to comment verbally on the Dems VP pick.

The number of houses thing solidifies lots of themes.
1.McCain is old and forgetful
2.He’s out of touch with the economy – His brother really helped today by saying that John probably didn’t know how many houses he had because their mum did his finances until his wife did.
3.Elitism charges can work both ways.
4.The press are now starting to have a serious look at the McCains spending habits,god knows what that could lead to.

So I’m just wondering whether the selection of the super rich Romney is now less likely.

tim,

For me, house counts, birth certificates, middle names, etc. are not that interesting.
Elitist is as elitist does. Obama bothers me some with his tendency to deliver diktats in a stentorian voice – ” I will not allow …” in reference to Michelle and his love of country.

Biden has much more in the way of a strong and sensible foreign policy than Obama, which makes the ticket more appealing to those of us on the anti-totalitarian left.

But as a running mate, this choice smacks of desperation, symbolised by Obama making the announcement in the middle of the night. So much for change: a Delaware lawyer who has spent far longer in Washington than even John McCain. I see that Obama has suspended campaigning in red states, so must be preparing for a tight finish in the rust belt, explaining why he gave up on the much more bold choice of Tim Kaine.

But worst of all for Obama, Biden already knows that John McCain is the better candidate, which will be hammered home all the way to the election!

“Obama bothers me some with his tendency to deliver diktats in a stentorian voice – ” I will not allow …” ”

That is all part and parcel of his delusion that he is better than the little people, that he is on a mission from on high to rule them rather than serve them.
From what I know of Americans, that is a huge turn-off for a great many of them.

McCain does indeed look tired and confused on occations.
However, this has to be weighed against the doubts about
the people Obama has surrounded himself with over the years.
(Rezko, Rev. Wright, Ayers).
Which candidate has the most potent turnoffs?
The envy-card, I think, will not play well in an American election.

The difference between Brits and Americans has been described thus:

If you drive a new BMW in Britain and stop at a traffic light, the driver of the beat-up Escort stopped next to you will give you a dirty look, maybe the finger.

In America, he will smile, give you the tumbs-up and hope that one day he’ll also own one.

A generalisation, to be sure, but I think it captures the essence of what Thomas says, that the envy card will not play well in an American election.

Benjamin, Biden certainly helps in PA, although I think the Dems will win that anyway. .
They don’t call it the keystone state for nothing. Since Florida is almost certain for McCain, the electoral race is likely to come down to Pennsylvania or Ohio.

You can try out the electoral math here . Flip FL and PA to McCain and given the normal south and west red you will see how McCain is almost on the magic 270. If PA and OH go to Obama, game over.

I live in Michigan and it is highly likely to Go Blue (a pun).

“I’ve had a great relationship. In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking,” Biden said.

With Obama’s obsession with White people and the false quote “and BTW did I mention he’s Black” in a self-deprecating speech. His association with the racist Rev Wright and his own words in his book about the Black’s of America being subject to “White man’s greed” it seems they deserve each other.

Gene, you were warned about the Kool Aid, weren’t you?

Just listening to Biden’s acceptance speech. Absolute bollocks!

Claiming that oil prices are due to current govt policies when the Republicans wanted a bill on off-shore drilling and Anwar – but Pelosi closed the session and refused them a debate and vote.

Makes a jibe about which of McCain ’s seven kitchens he will eat in – when the houses are for aged mother and daughters. References USA poor but both Biden and Obama are multi-millionaires!!!

I guess its standard politics.

I wish I had shares in Kool Aid. Did you know that that they have suspended putting pot smokers into jail for the convention on the basis that Liberals and Marxists are drug users!

From the sound of the crowd’s boos and chanting it seems they have been overdoing it.

Barrack Hussein Obama! Apparently its not nice to mention his middle name. Mark Levine calls him Barrack Millhouse Obama.

Excuse me, I’ve been listening for 20 minutes now – I have to go to the bathroom!!

You seem to know more about McCains houses than he does.But maybe we all do today.

I’d like you to prove that Biden has got wealthy from the Senate though.

You guys are day-dreaming. Biden is a ridiculous choice. He is on record saying he would run on a McCain ticket! He is also on record at a debate saying Obama is not ready to be President. He’s also on record making a racist generalisation about black people. he is also on record making racist statements about Indians as Dunkins Donuts and 7 Eleven employees. Never mind him plagiarising a windbag Marxist loser like Kinnock; Biden comes with a consistent track record of being a Senate tosser with zero achivements.

Your piece has completely skated over the downside. Maybe you have gotten carried away in your Obamamania. I’m dissapointed to have read such a blindly partisan piece at HP.

You guys are day-dreaming. Biden is a ridiculous choice. He is on record saying he would run on a McCain ticket!

I think you’re a bit confused.

You guys are day-dreaming. Biden is a ridiculous choice. He is on record saying he would run on a McCain ticket! He is also on record at a debate saying Obama is not ready to be President.

If that’s the best you can do, you’d better hope that McCain doesn’t pick Romney. There’s lots of good video from their debates.

If McCain wanted to run as a maverick he’d pick Tom Ridge, but I suspect Romney is nailed on.

Guarantees easy ads for the Democrats and lots more house jokes.

What ever you think about gun nuts like the fellow in that video, they are hyper-aware of gun safety and proper rules of ownership. It is there favourite hobby after all.
It’s the moderate gun owners – types with one pistol in a cupboard, who favour “sensible” gun laws” and might vote democrat – who forget to put the safety on.

Of course, as regards real babies – Obama wants them to starve to death in hospital rooms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypDwNpgIUQc

Out of the womb; in the womb, whatever: it’s all good.

What I am wondering is if a combination of non-excitement over Biden, women voters resentment over Clinton, and Obama’s ambivalence at Saddleback will be a perfect storm that allows McCain to win in a year that should be the Democrats.

I watching Biden and Obama on C-Span now – Joe’s working the kitchent table gag now, the bad thing is that I can say the line before he does.

A predictive poll and one woman?
Really?

“a year that should be the Democrats”

‘Should’ as in ‘you know what is best for the USA’, as Obama deludes himself he does?

No.
One in which a generic Democrat runs 12% ahead of a generic Republican.
Obviously.

jdwill

this may be more relevent

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/08/23/obama-taps-prochoice-catholic-sen-joe-biden-veep-poll-catholic-voters

Yeah – one woman. A representative, but look at the fact that Hillary was beating Obama towards the end. She lost be cause she slacked off after the first (Super Tuesday) set of states. Obama racked up electoral delegates until she woke up. Classic tortoise and hare story.

tim,
Interesting, busy now, but will read. Need to know which of these groups are likely/registered voters. Also, when the poll was taken.

From July 8 to July 15, the prominent DC polling firm Belden Russonello & Stewart surveyed 1,033 Catholics who are likely voters in the 2008 presidential election. The survey included an oversample of 200 Latino Catholic likely voters for a total of 295 Latino interviews. The survey has a ±3.1 percentage-point margin of sampling error for a random sample of this size. The margin of error for results of the Hispanic subsample is ±5.7 percentage points. The demographic characteristics of the sample have been weighted statistically to bring age, race and region into their proper proportions for likely Catholic voters based on 2004 exit poll data

Johnson did not help him win Texas, it was the Mob that did that and turned on JFK and his bother after they went after the Mob when JFK got elected. Many dead, dogs and multiple voting happened in Chicago and Dallas for JFK during that election. Just to let you know.

But Biden is a bad choice for Obama. The whole “change” thing is out the window. How cna you change politics with a mant that is the insiders insider. And if they want to go after McCain’s age, well, Biden i not much younger. And along with the multiple gaffes that Biden says all the time, he is a know plagarist. And this pick has unpset the Nutroots, the main OPbama supporters. They think that Biden ies way too far to the center/right for their likings, and Obama will not win without them. Many are young idealist and will stay at home if Obama tries to go any more to the center.

Biden would have been better fot the Presidency than Obama. I would rather have someone that has some sense in Foreign affairs than someone that needs a helper to figure out where Georgia even is located.

With all that said, Obama is on a sinking ship in the first place. More and more people are finding out what he really is, A politician from the Political Machine in Chicago. He has very Marxist mentors and if you look at what his policies are, you can see those influences.

So I do not think that Biden can help the defeat of Obama in the first palce. That is of course depending on who McCain choses as VP. If he picks someone too centrist, he will be dead in the water because he needs the far right more than Obama needs the Nutroots.

Gravitas.

He has very Marxist mentors and if you look at what his policies are, you can see those influences.

Which of Obamas policies do you see as explicitly Marxist?

tim, The problem I have with the Catholic poll is that:

1. Obama was leading by 5-6 points consistently during this period. He has since dropped about 3.
2. His performance at Saddleback had not occurred yet.
3. If this polling was done in DC (Washington) then I am really dubious. Our own Detroit Free Press put out an outlier poll two days ago, and the reason was they sampled in Wayne county exclusively (downtown with a preponderant black vote), guarenteed to skew to Obama and heralded it as a Michigan poll.

For this reason I like the RCP charts because they average many polls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#chart

To be honest I posted that to answer your point about women,Hillary and Biden.
As for Michigan, I think its one of the main reasons why McCain is now boxed in with Romney.its the one chance of a state going against previous electoral history that the Republicans have, and McCains stuff today on abortion rights seems to rule out Ridge

Jacob Weisberg of Slate puts America on notice:

If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth. His defeat would say that when handed a perfect opportunity to put the worst part of our history behind us, we chose not to. In this event, the world’s judgment will be severe and inescapable: The United States had its day but, in the end, couldn’t put its own self-interest ahead of its crazy irrationality over race….To the rest of the world, a rejection of the promise he represents wouldn’t just be an odd choice by the United States. It would be taken for what it would be: sign and symptom of a nation’s historical decline.

Meanwhile, expect Bob Herbert to explain how making fun of Joe Biden is racist.

Oops! I’m corrected by Mickey Kaus.

Maybe when I get to Denver I’ll find someone who’ll explain to me why Biden is an inspired choice. He doesn’t have gravitas. He has seniority. We’ve been waiting for him to mature for decades. Only Chuck Hagel (his chief competitor as Sunday morning gasbag) could make him look wise.

I’d guess that many people have many reasons not to vote for Obama,race being one of them,inexperience another.I’m sure you wouldn’t rule that out would you Mesquito?

In the same way that McCains age may be an issue that bleeds into not knowing how many houses he has or imagining an Iraq/Pakistan border.

Mesquito,
Why cut the quote short.?
It goes on..

Also, I’ve read numerous articles stressing Biden’s Roman Catholicism. Isn’t John Kerry a Catholic, as well? A pro-choice Catholic is going to have little sway among believers who take the abortion issue seriously.

I’d guess that many people have many reasons not to vote for Obama,race being one of them,inexperience another.I’m sure you wouldn’t rule that out would you Mesquito?

Of course not. Weisberg, however, is putting the whole courtry on notice: If you, America, do not choose Obama, you are a racist nation. I’m voting for McCain for the same reason I’ve voted Republican in every presidential election since 1988. There is a chance (about 50%) that he’ll appoint judges who actually respect and interpret the written Constitution.

If thats your motivation why did you chop the quote?

I chopped the quote, deviously, to spread fear and loathing. Or I lifted those passages that demonstrate Weisberg’s moral showboating. I forget which.

tim,
I understood why you presented the Catholic poll. I am still dubious of it because of the normally more socailly conservative Hispanics outside of DC/NY (which Obama will win, regardless).

My prediction is Pawlenty, not Romney. I have worked the electoral map (linked earlier) and McCain can win without Michigan, Minnesota, and even Pennsylvania. It comes down to the south and Ohio. I fully expect Obama to carry the usual northeast, west coast and ‘north coast’ . Also, Pawlenty’s the govenor of Minnesota which has been wobbly since 2000. Much more likely than Michigan tipping red.

So, Ohio, in the midwest is where Obama must prevail, and that is where the ‘perfect storm’ I am positing can derail him.

Are you presuming the Republicans hold Iowa and New Mexico?

When is the magic spell going to wear off? When will the thrall be broken?

Hopefully before this ruthless little chancer cons his way to the most important job in the world.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, both are likely red. Go here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=1

Click 2000 and you have a likely scenario for 2008. (the state abbreviations and counts may load a little slowly – being used a lot right now, I expect). You can click states to look at their individual poll numbers and flip them to try different scenarios.

Correction, NV, NM are likely blue (Dem).

All we need now is Joe Lieberman as McCain’s running mate: two North Eastern, white, ultraliberal, super-hawkish, Likudnik Joes together – Biden and Lieberman, each with a very good chance of becoming President between now and 2012, one by the assassination of the dusky President Obama, the other by the expiration of the aged President McCain.

Obama is still better than the alternative, not that that is saying anything. But to whom are these running mates designed to appeal? In whose interest is each ticket being balanced? Balanced by what, exactly?

Enough of this pandering to Hillary Clinton, with her eighteen million cracks. There is no need for the ballot paper to feature a candidate acceptable to man-haters, to black-haters, to illegal immigrants who refuse to learn English, to people who wish the foreign policy of the United States to be dictated by a not necessarily governing party in another country, or to financial dependents of the Gulf monarchies.

And note that the South has become the American equivalent of the North of England or the West Country, with no one on the Democratic ticket, and doubtless with no one on the Republican ticket either.

“She knows who brung her to this dance,” they say in Texas. Payment of the customary kind is expected. President McCain would know that it was the disgruntled Clinton-supporting white feminists, militantly non-English-speaking and pro-amnesty Hispanics, and socially ultraliberal, hawkish, more-or-less secular Jews who had brung him to the White House, by switching, even if only this once, from the Democrats. He would put out for them accordingly. Why, he might even have had Joe Lieberman as his running mate.

Well, two can play that game.

It is perfectly possible that Obama could just scrape in on the votes of those whites in South Carolina, where he will of course clean up among the large number of black voters, who vote the ticket that has on it Bob Conley, traditional Catholic (with all that that entails on life and family issues), Ron Paul activist (with all that that entails on trade, immigration and foreign policy), and Democratic candidate for United States Senator. For that matter, the black votes for that same ticket, because it has Obama on it, also make it Conley’s ticket to Capitol Hill.

The black churches are key to getting out Obama’s vote. Are Baptists and Pentecostals characteristically anti-life or anti-family? And the more organised lobby on these matters, of (often blue-collar, naturally and historically Democratic) Catholics and (mostly blue-collar, naturally and historically Democratic) white Evangelicals, needs to learn the lesson: the anti-life and anti-family forces are preparing to switch sides in order to indebt President McCain to them. You need to be preparing to switch sides (and thus, unlike them, to go home) in order to indebt President Obama to you.

This time next year, whoever is hosting any ball or reception at the White House, he must, and he will, know who brung him to that dance.

And the more organised lobby on these matters, of (often blue-collar, naturally and historically Democratic) Catholics and (mostly blue-collar, naturally and historically Democratic) white Evangelicals, needs to learn the lesson: the anti-life and anti-family forces are preparing to switch sides in order to indebt President McCain to them.

I think this (may) span too many regions and too much (unspecified) time to make sense. Further, I ddn’t think these groups hold a meeting and make an action plan, these shifts occur in aggregates.

“I ddn’t think these groups hold a meeting and make an action plan”

Oh, but they do. And why not?

Because they are disparate and diffuse groups. A leading organization, like NARAL, might make a recommendation, but the members or fellow travelers do not necessarily follow in lockstep.

Joe Biden, Likudnik. Too rich.

Its interesting how one can use “Likudnik” as a general slur against a US politician these days. By “one” I mean the apparently unbalanced person above because I’m not sure anyone else would has any idea what the fuck he’s talking about.

Its interesting how one can use “Likudnik” as a general slur against a US politician these days. By “one” I mean the apparently unbalanced person above because I’m not sure anyone else would has any idea what the fuck he’s talking about.

You are, of course, referring to Mr. Lindsay, leader and apparently sole member of the British Peoples Alliance.

Cute website. It seems he’s a nutjob of the earnest, harmless variety.

This is my favorite crazy person’s website:

http://www.taxi1010.com/

Anyway, TNR has some wonderful Biden ephemera. As someone who also unabashedly *admires* Joe Biden, I’m pleased with Obama’s choice.

Does Joe Biden give away all his senatorial salary then?

I think we just heard some high grade BS.

“Does Joe Biden give away all his senatorial salary then?”

No, but it seems he throws all his money in this pit:

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/default.aspx

LBJ is about the only example anyone can come up with as a veep candidate who had a significnt imapct on the election. If McCain picks Lieberman, that could have an impact, but leaving that possibility aside the veep candidates are an irrelevance as far as the eventual outcome is concerned.

Flip FL and PA to McCain and given the normal south and west red you will see how McCain is almost on the magic 270. If PA and OH go to Obama, game over.

Well, I don’t disagree. I just find it all a bit depressing. Politicians concentrate on certain states – and certain parts of certain states, to get the electoral votes. I would prefer simply a direct election for president, one person, one vote, without the addition of electoral colleges and all that malarkey. I understand the historical reasons why such a system came about, but I think nowadays its a bit absurd.

Rev Wright is a racist? Aside from being a bit of a stretch that doesn’t mean that Obama is a racist. John McCain is indisputably a racist, however, as his remarks about gooks testifies and his angry refusal to stop using the term.

Rev Wright is a racist? Aside from being a bit of a stretch that doesn’t mean that Obama is a racist.

He sat in that church for 20 years listening to Black Liberation Theology sermons from Wright and never objected to any of them????? You must be joking.

Obama calls his grandmother a “typical White woman (who has a suspicion about Black people”. Obama made race an issue when he spoke about “not looking like those other presidents on bank notes” and interjecting a mocking “oh, and by the way, did we tell you he’s Black?” In his own book he writes about how the Black Man is subject to “White Mans’ greed”.

Obama is the one bringing up race and how “White People” behave.

As for pretending that McCain is old and looking decidely ’senior’ – he looks in great health and is vibrant. You obviously haven’t been watching him on Fox news. The word ‘gooks’ is common parlance for the Viet Cong amongst soldiers. Permit him for being bitter when he suffered so many years of torture.

Case of Kool Aid all round!

A good choice; indeed he’d make a far better presidential candidate than either Obama or Clinton H. I suspect he’d have won the White House in November, had he been selected. But then if your grandpa had tits and a box, he’d have been your grandma!

Gene wrote: It may be the triumph of hope over experience
I’m inclined rather to suspect so; especially given that Obama is further behind where Kerry was in the polls at this stage in 2004. The deification business with Obama…..

“I face this challenge with profound humility and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people … . I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal … . This was the moment – this was the time – when we came together to remake this great nation.”

…..is rather wearing thin.

Given Obama’s lack of experience in running so much as a whelk stall, his leftish inclinations – as arguably the most left wing senator together with his associations with the nutjob racist Jeremiah Wright, it’s a wonder that Obama’s even been nominated.

The Democratic party may be sufficiently wracked by liberal angst to select a superficially slick affirmative action candidate, but I just can’t see the bulk of the US electorate buying into this when they tick that box in a private stall in November.

And here is a video of what Obama thinks about White People. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lI77cU3jsFs&eurl=http://www.exposeobama.com/obamanationbe.html

If a White politician had such a track record of saying these things about Black people then wouldn’t we label them a racist.

My point in all this is to merely counter the idea that Republicans and McCain are racists whereas Obama’s track record is clean. SOme of the examples in teh video are trite but not all of them.

Race will definitely be an issue. The media makes it known that there are polls that show that Black people will tend to vote for Obama because he is Black. That might be used to motivate people to vote against Obama.

Its dirty stuff!

The deification business with Obama

Pelosi said about Obama “a leader that God has blessed us with at this time.”

Pelosi happens to also be one of the richest people in the USA and who insisted she be given her own private plane. Contrast with the Democrats lauding of Biden as a working-class risen poor boy.

What about those other ‘poor’ democrats who understand the poor of America, the Kennedys, Clintons, Kerry, Gore, Edwards ……..

“If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth. His defeat would say that when handed a perfect opportunity to put the worst part of our history behind us, we chose not to”

This is a screamingly racist statement. It says: Vote Obama because he is black. Never mind his total lack of qualifications and experience. Never mind that he is a disgusting liar who is twisting and turning in trying to distance himself from his racist mentor. The one and only important factor is his skin colour, his race.

“By “one” I mean the apparently unbalanced person above because I’m not sure anyone else would has any idea what the fuck he’s talking about”

Oh, I think we do know: it’s merely a coded and cowardly way of saying he hates Jews.

Speaker Nancy puts America on notice as well:

“We’ve got a planet to save. Nothing less is at stake other than civilization as we know it today,” the California Democrat and speaker of the House told reporters Saturday afternoon in assessing the election and the nominating convention taking place here over the week.

Bloody hell, its just like the Shia Al Queda on the Iraq/Pakistan border in here.

Peggy Noonan on Biden, 2006:

The great thing about Joe Biden during the Alito hearings, the reason he is, to me, actually endearing, is that as he speaks, as he goes on and on and spins his long statements, hypotheticals, and free associations–as he demonstrates yet again, as he did in the Roberts hearings and even the Thomas hearings, that he is incapable of staying on the river of a thought, and is constantly lured down tributaries from which he can never quite work his way back–you can see him batting the little paddles of his mind against the weeds, trying desperately to return to the river but not remembering where it is, or where it was going. I love him. He’s human, like a garrulous uncle after a drink.

Obama Pix Hipster Prix to Reclick with Stix Hix

In Perrysville, Indiana, special forces douchebag Meilani Cohen uses a softer sarcasm approach when wooing Hoosier swing votes to the Obama column. For the last week, Cohen has been conducting a traveling one-woman show of “Six Years of Tuition,” the pink fiberglass rock that was her Yale Art School master’s thesis.

“The piece is a great conversation starter with the local proletariat,” says Cohen. “I use it to demonstrate how Obama is all about change and unity, and cutting edge postmodern sculpture, and how he will fund public arts programs to bring it to their dismal little hellhole towns.”

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/08/seeking-swing-s.html

Side-splitting, mesquito ;-)

It gets funnier. Obama called Biden the next president. And Biden called him Barack America. All this happens in their first appearance together. These two are a comedy act in the making:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24232704-5012572,00.html

Minoan.
Last night you wrote.

You guys are day-dreaming. Biden is a ridiculous choice. He is on record saying he would run on a McCain ticket!

Have you cleared up your confusion yet?

Tim,

What confusion? Biden endorsed McCain on Jon Stewart’s show, and during a Dem debate reiterated Barack was not ready to be President:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF7Q0ghdTn4&feature=related

i think you’re referring to this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4542473

I am glad that Obama chose someone who is a strong supporter of the independence of Kosova!

http://byzantinesacredart.com/blog/2007/01/serb-hater-biden.html

I have this feeling of pleasure every time a nationalist serb finds an enemy he/she cannot threaten, and scare into silence!

The word ‘gooks’ is common parlance for the Viet Cong amongst soldiers. Permit him for being bitter when he suffered so many years of torture.

The word “gook” doesn’t simply refer to the Viet Cong. It was used for Vietnamese in general and has been used for various groups of East Asians and South-East Asians as a general slur. So I don’t agree that it is a non-racist term. You’ve even given a back-up answer to say that it is a term used by bitter people who should be forgiven for their bitterness whether or not it is racist. But if you stand by that then would you feel comfortable letting Rev. Wright off his supposedly racist statements if it turned out he had had any experiences which may have made him bitter?

If you’re going to bring up Rev. Wright you may just as easily bring up John Hagee and Jerry Falwell. And if you’re going to bring up Rezko you may just as easily bring up Charles Keating.

As for Ayers, if one wants to mention him then why doesn’t Gordon Liddy get a mention?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0504chapmanmay04,0,6238795.column

If you’re going to bring up Rev. Wright you may just as easily bring up John Hagee and Jerry Falwell.

McCain sat in the congregation of Hagee and Falwell for Twenty Odd Years?

And if you’re going to bring up Rezko you may just as easily bring up Charles Keating.

McCain bought houses on the cheap from Rezko?

“If a White politician had such a track record of saying these things about Black people then wouldn’t we label them a racist”

This argument is just complete bullshit. Its the argument of the stupid. Black-White issues in the USA are not symmetrical. “Black history month” does not equal “White history month”. Nigger jokes do not equal white trash jokes which don’t equal Jew jokes. Power relations matter in grounding the meaning of such things.

McCain bought houses on the cheap from Rezko?

I doubt if he could remember.

Race will definitely be an issue. The media makes it known that there are polls that show that Black people will tend to vote for Obama because he is Black. That might be used to motivate people to vote against Obama.

Maven, the ways in which you are not a maven are too many to enumerate, but I’ll simply note that in recent decades, African-Americans have voted overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates– and there’s no reason Obama should be any different.

Also, your theories about racially-motivated voting among African-Americans should should occasionally be compared to what happens in real life. For instance: recently Steve Cohen, a white Jewish congressman who represents a majority-black district in Memphis, Tennessee, defeated (by a margin of 4 to 1) a black challenger in the Democratic primary– despite efforts to emphasize Cohen’s Jewishness and tie him to the Ku Klux Klan.

Morgoth.
Who did buy a houe from Rezko by the way?

Black-White issues in the USA are not symmetrical. “Black history month” does not equal “White history month”. Nigger jokes do not equal white trash jokes which don’t equal Jew jokes. Power relations matter in grounding the meaning of such things.

Absolutely. About time someone made that point.

“would you feel comfortable letting Rev. Wright off his supposedly racist statements if it turned out he had had any experiences which may have made him bitter?”

He is as ’supposedly’ racist as Goebbels was ’supposedly’ racist.
And was he ever held prisoner by whitey, never mind by the Joos? Can you provide some evidence for this absurd assertion?

Do you think before you so desperately try to excuse Wright’s demented racism? Is this what the Messiah’s fans have been reduced to?
(No need to answer that).

Yes, bullshit indeed, Shmuel. Excusing the racism of blacks is simply … well, racist. Nobody is entitled to be racist simply based on their skin colour.

Benjamin seems to be saying that it’s OK for blacks to make antisemitic jokes.

McCain bought houses on the cheap from Rezko?

I doubt if he could remember.

Nice!

McCain sat in the congregation of Hagee and Falwell for Twenty Odd Years?

The whole world has been sitting in earshot of their pulpits for years whether they wanted to or not. Their reactionary beliefs have been well-known for years, how McCain claim that in actively seeking their endorsements that he’s any different to Obama?

Oxfordian,

I think it was an attempt to excuse any behaviour,gaffe or forgetfullness on McCains part with a reference to his time as a POW.

Benjamin seems to be saying that it’s OK for blacks to make antisemitic jokes.

Not at all. I was just agreeing with what Shmuel said, and that’s not what he was saying either.

Yes, bullshit indeed, Shmuel. Excusing the racism of blacks is simply … well, racist. Nobody is entitled to be racist simply based on their skin colour.

Who is “excusing the racism of blacks”? I am merely saying that Obama is not a racist. His comments about “white folks” are not racist. They are rather ordinary observations about living as a member of a minority group in the USA. I could make very similar comments about being a Jew. But it would not make me “racist” against non-Jews to point out that non-Jews can be insensitive or ignorant of what it means to be a Jew in this sense.

There are plenty of black racists. Obama’s ex-pastor for example is one.

It most certainly is what he said: he said that there is no symmetry, and that we can’t judge the utterances of a black politician (or mentor, or community leader etc) by the same yardstick we use to judge the utterances of a white politician etc.

“Nobody is entitled to be racist simply based on their skin colour.”

I think nobody is entitled to be racist, full stop! Other people, apologists for McCain, for example, have some mitigating circumstances they would like for us to hear. It’s called the Make-it-up-as-you-go-arbitrary rule. McCain and all those who endorse him get off because of reasons X,Y or Z whereas Obama gets slammed for his acquaintances who have acquaintances who are racist.

The same goes for corrupt friends. McCain is now squeaky clean because he’s been serving penance for his indisputable corruption with the likes of Charles Keating and Obama is in trouble because he knew someone corrupt.

“Black-White issues in the USA are not symmetrical.”

This seems to be a postmodern argument based on the ‘powerlessness’ of the black population.

Where modernism was objective and gave rise to the will to reason, Postmodernism results in the will to power. Modernism produced the line, “I think, therefore I am”-Postmodernism produced the expression, “I feel, therefore I am and what I feel is good”

Once you make this step, it is easy to manipulate reality and scam others.

So, when demography shifts and whites are a minority, will there be a “White history month”?

“Obama gets slammed for his acquaintances who have acquaintances who are racist”

It’s you who are making it up as you go along. Wright is hardly an ‘acquaintance of an acquaintance’, he was his weekly pastor for 20 years, for Pete’s sake.

Obama gets a free pass from the Messiah groupies for a whole load of stuff. How many mock him for being rich and powerful, for example? It’s a little hypocritical to mock McCain for failings that Obama exhibits with bells on.

“Black-White issues in the USA are not symmetrical.”

If they are symmetrical please provide me with the “white” equivalent of the word NIGGER.

C’mon guys. Please provide a word as noxious as NIGGER that is used to describe white people. The kind of word that makes you, as a white person, feel nauseated. It should be easy if white-black relations are symmetrical. Or perhaps you don’t think the word NIGGER is that bad?

So, when demography shifts and whites are a minority, will there be a “White history month”?

So do you have a problem with Jews studying Jewish history?

When there is widespread miscegenation (which I assume you favor) for several generations, and racial differences genuinely became meaningless, perhaps then there will no longer be a need for Black History Month.

Black racism against whites certainly exists (and, ironically, it’s one of the memes of white supremacists), but please– do you really think a higher proportion of blacks hate and fear whites than the other way around?

Rich and powerful?

I guess that makes JK Rowling the most powerful person on the planet.
Selling an Autobiography paid well,but c.w McCain and Romney its small beer.

Take your pick:
http://www.rsdb.org/

It’s irrelevant to the point. I believe your point really is the PM concept that reality is based on power. Some here would disagree.

It’s you who are making it up as you go along. Wright is hardly an ‘acquaintance of an acquaintance’, he was his weekly pastor for 20 years, for Pete’s sake.

Find me a racial slur made by Obama. If you want to find one for McCain look up “McCain gook” on Google and you’ll find one immediately.
Of course, he can use it because he’s bitter. Right?

There are plenty of things worth slamming Obama over but racism is not one of them.

As for the rich thing, I’m not going to defend him on that but it is the Republicans who first started using the “elitist” label on him. How many serious presidential candidates aren’t from the elite?

(1) What exactly is racist about Rev. Wright’s rants?

(2) John McCain has a long history of using racist slurs against Asians. That has been defended on the grounds that he was tortured by Vietnamese, so, presumably, his anti-Asian racism is made understandable. The very same people who make this argument also argue that Rev. Wright is an anti-white racist, and that there is no excuse for his racism. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

So do you have a problem with Jews studying Jewish history?

No. I do wonder what it would mean to have a Jewish History Month and plaster schools and workplaces with Jewish history snippets. Where does it end? Eastern Pentacostalist Samoan History week?

do you really think a higher proportion of blacks hate and fear whites than the other way around?

I don’t know for sure, but I think right now in the northeastern USA, blacks are having an important dialog with themselves about race. They do have a counter-racial problem and are starting to acknowledge it in the form of analyzing their cultural problems without reference to the “white devil”.

I don’t know how much racial mixing will occur. I suspect not much:

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Sort-Clustering-Like-Minded-America/dp/0618689354

Anyway, if we could eliminate race by mixing it up, I fear we would find something else.

This seems to be a postmodern argument based on the ‘powerlessness’ of the black population.

No, its about history – nothing “postmodern” about it. If the histories of blacks and whites are not symmetrical, i.e. historically one was oppressed and one was privileged (overall), then it follows that these realities affect language, culture etc.

The notion of whites getting as irate – in exactly the same way – about terms like “white trash” as blacks over “nigger” is clearly absurd, as if they both have the same histories. White people did not slave eighteen hours a day on plantations, nor were sold in markets in New Orleans, nor suffered as many lynchings (often used to terrorise). So you are talking about very different historical backdrops.

It’s irrelevant to the point. I believe your point really is the PM concept that reality is based on power. Some here would disagree.

I am not a postmodernist. In fact, I am very anti-bullshit, and you are obviously quite full of it. That there is no word for a white person that is equivalent to NIGGER or KIKE is highly suggestive of the point that I’m making. Perhaps rather than calling me a “postmodernist” you could actually provide something like a counter-argument for why you think there is not a word equivalent to NIGGER used to refer to white people that would offend YOU as a white person.

>(1) What exactly is racist about Rev. Wright’s rants?

There is so much evidence, its hard to know where to start.

The guy is an admirer of Farrakhan and Hammas. That’s just about as bad as you can get without dressing up in a Nazi uniform and marching up and down infront of his church.

Why the Left thinks this is Ok, I can’t imagine. But then, the Left is by definition totalitarian, and Hammas and Farrakhan share many similar views.

Roll on the elections, Obama’s lost alread and its going to be a joy to see BBC reporters biting their liips, pushing away tears, and being forced to report another Republican victory.

White people did not slave eighteen hours a day on plantations,

As it happens,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant#America

I will try to respond later – have to go.

White people did not slave eighteen hours a day on plantations, nor were sold in markets in New Orleans, nor suffered as many lynchings

Yes, but as it happens there were many who had very similar treatment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant#America

Benjamin, there were white indentured servants who were taken to America and pretty much bought and sold like slaves and who were also punished by floggings and hangings if they tried to escape or were recaptured.

(This is my third attempt to post, but the comments don’t seem to be appearing).

Ah, finally.

Here’s Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant#America

Is there some kind of ban on linking to Wikipedia?

There is so much evidence, its hard to know where to start.

The guy is an admirer of Farrakhan and Hammas. That’s just about as bad as you can get without dressing up in a Nazi uniform and marching up and down infront of his church.

Haven’t seen the Hamas quote. He mentioned Farrakhan’s influence over black people, and he doesn’t endorse Farrakhan’s racism. I don’t see how it follows that Wright is a racist.

Benjamin, there were white indentured servants who were taken to America and pretty much bought and sold like slaves and who were also punished by floggings and hangings if they tried to escape or were recaptured.

Not slavery; indentured servants had recourse to the law; their children did not inherit their status; they were able to own land after manumission; and, importantly, laws were not passed requiring their perpetual servitude or declaring them a perpetually inferior race. Try aagain.

I would prefer simply a direct election for president, one person, one vote, without the addition of electoral colleges and all that malarkey. I understand the historical reasons why such a system came about, but I think nowadays its a bit absurd.

This is your punishment for not supporting the candidate who won the popular vote in the primaries. Suck it up.

“there were white indentured servants”

These people are not serious.

There is so much evidence, its hard to know where to start.

The guy is an admirer of Farrakhan and Hammas. That’s just about as bad as you can get without dressing up in a Nazi uniform and marching up and down infront of his church

Rembert Weakland used to be Archbishop of Milwaukee. He lost his job when it was discovered that he had been paying off a gay lover. Ordinary parishioners said nice things about his tenure, without supporting his misuse of church money. Are we supposed to think that the parishioners who said nice things about him are gay?

Likewise the child abuse scandal in Catholic Church. Quite often, parishioners stood up for priests who had been accused of these crimes, and very few of those parishioners actually left the Church. It is entirely obvious that none of these parishioners actually support the abuses perpetrated by the priests. Most people can spot the point when it comes to the Catholic Church; why can’t they see the same point when it comes to Rev. Wright?

Historically one can perfectly see why racist terms against blacks are more offensive, however in the modern climate, where there is a great deal of racially motivated violent crime against whites as well, racist terms against any race are equally unacceptable.

Not slavery; indentured servants had recourse to the law; their children did not inherit their status; they were able to own land after manumission; and, importantly, laws were not passed requiring their perpetual servitude or declaring them a perpetually inferior race. Try aagain.

In fact, I was arguing against myself purely to point out that it is not quite true to say that white people weren’t subjected to some terrible cruelty in the days of slavery. But I agree that white indentured servitude wasn’t the same thing and didn’t leave the kind of lasting legacy that black slavery did. That’s all.

“there were white indentured servants”

These people are not serious.

Shmuel, if you read the rest of my comments on this thread you’ll see I am on far more common ground with you than on those that think Obama is a racist, and I think that a far stronger case can be made for saying that John McCain is.

Biden may flip PA — for the Republicans. The state has a lot of gun owners.

Biden also has a lot of praise for J-Mac, and a lot of criticism of our Lord and Savior. Biden strongly supported overthrowing Saddam, and is one of the most corporate senators in Congress. And why exactly should we believe in the Messiah again? I forgot — something about change if I remember.

Are the Democrats trying to lose on purpose?

And one of McCain’s daughters is an adopted orphan from Bangladesh. To call McCain a racist is asinine.

And one of McCain’s daughters is an adopted orphan from Bangladesh. To call McCain a racist is asinine.

Close inspection of Jeremiah Wright’s phenotype reveals that he’s descended, at least partly, from White Americans. By your logic, having members of a visibly-different race in one’s family is proof that one isn’t a racist. Jeremiah Wright is free of the taint of racism….

Actually, this gets better. Malcolm X had white ancestry, it follows that he can’t have been racist either…

Elitist is not remotely the same thing as being rich. Obama is a patronising, condescending chancer, not because he is rich but because he is elitist.
Try again.

Wrong again, Shmuel. I object to being called ‘whitey’, which is equivalent to ‘nigger’ (being simply a corruption of negro, i.e. black).

Silly argument, Emmanuel. Having a white ancestor that one hasn’t chosen is not at all the same thing as deliberately adopting a child from a different race.

Emmanuel seems to think that Wright was held captive and tortured by whites.
You couldn’t make up this stuff.

The Biden thread is blown all to hell.

The Biden thread is blown all to hell.

I noticed that. Perhaps it’s because the resident Obama-bashers can’t find enough nasty things to say about Biden.

Perhaps it’s because the resident Obama-bashers can’t find enough nasty things to say about Biden.

Oh I can find plenty more, if you want.

Oh I can find plenty more, if you want.

Big deal. You can find plenty of nasty things to say about anyone. That’s your special gift to the world.

>Haven’t seen the Hamas quote. He mentioned Farrakhan’s influence over black people, and he doesn’t endorse Farrakhan’s racism. I don’t see how it follows that Wright is a racist.

This is like Cameran endorsing the BNP, but saying he respects their influence over White people, but doesn’t appreciate their racism.

Wright is a low life race-baiter. His praise of Hammas and adoration of an unabashed antisemitic racist and Islamist will drag Obama down, as will his association with crooks and terrorists. By the end of this campaign, he’d be lucky to get elected to Dog Catcher.

The BBC and Guardian are gushing right now, they think Obama’s going to win in the next election. They’re wrong. As they were wrong twice before.

For a while even I was fooled, but the Americans are not as stupid as the Left wishes, and they didn’t become the most successful country in human history by believing every snake oil salesman who looked good infront of the cameras. No matter what the BBC believes.

Roll on the elections!

You can find plenty of nasty things to say about anyone. That’s your special gift to the world.

*cue stirring music*

Why thank you, Gene!

What does it matter.

Sure the VP has experience, and is widely respected as a veteran Congressman. The guy he works for has never had a real job, except for 3 years as a rokkie Senator.

Jesus himself could come down and be Obama’s VP, they’d still loose.

Would you vote a guy with no experience to be CEO of a major corporation, simply because he gave great speaches, but had no experience in business, bar a few years on the shop floor?

This discussion is entirely academic – though entertaining.

mesquito, I deleted your comment because I don’t want unsourced rumors about any candidate to appear here. If I miss any, please let me know.

Heard and understood, Gene. That was boneheaded on my part, and I apologize.

“Big deal. You can find plenty of nasty things to say about anyone. That’s your special gift to the world”

If this isn’t a nasty, uncalled-for, abusive personal attack, I don’t know what is.

“Big deal. You can find plenty of nasty things to say about anyone. That’s your special gift to the world”

If this isn’t a nasty, uncalled-for, abusive personal attack, I don’t know what is.

Morgoth may agree with me. If not, I apologize.

“A noun, a verb and 9/11… wa-haha!’

Alan,
Thus the quip “A`nun, a verb and POW”tim, The problem I have with the Catholic poll is that:

1. Obama was leading by 5-6 points consistently during this period. He has since dropped about 3.
2. His performance at Saddleback had not occurred yet.’

jdwiil, why do you think Saddleback would mean anything to Catholic voters? None of the necessary code words were in play.

“

Benjamin/Shmuel

If the histories of blacks and whites are not symmetrical, i.e. historically one was oppressed and one was privileged (overall), then it follows that these realities affect language, culture etc.

Yes the histories are obviously asymmetrical, but continuing to treat ongoing relations as such is actually holding back the blacks today in the US and they are showing signs of twigging on to this. They wind up owning the reduced respect they use as an grievance and bargaining tool. For example, when racial quota’s are used in higher education, the blacks find the degrees devalued. Obama alluded to this himself.

Obviously no word I could select from the list linked above would carry the same freight as “nigger”. There is, in fact, a history there. But, this is incidental to the problems of identity politics. Eventually everybody loses at identity politics – see Lebanon.

Going forward, I believe it is essential that black vs. white vs. whomever ‘jokes’ be treated equally. Equally trivially as ethnic
jokes generally used to be in the ‘melting pot’ or equally seriously if that is where our evolving society goes.

A slur is a slur, prejudicial hate is prejudicial hate, and so on. No one gets a pass. Otherwise you are falling into the PM trap (whether you label yourself as such or not – I did not) of defining the ‘other’ in terms of victimhood and a struggle for power that locks in a class struggle instead of allowing it to dissipate.

In a belated and probably useless attempt to get back on thead:

Is the US white population past racism? No, but consider the initial surge Obama got. Much of his polling strength came from the younger American generation in general as well as the well educated. He did this projecting a post-racial and post-postmodern aura. I believe white America is rounding a corner, and I am hoping that black America is not far behind. An assimilation of common ‘language’ is needed. Failure to reconcile the ‘oppressor/other’ and allowing PC squelching of even-handed dialog is the wrong way to go.

So, if Obama and Biden can provide a template for this dialog, they will guarentee the election for the Dems. Biden will certainly provide some examples of racial gaffes. This could be a good thing. They could reach those older white males in Ohio that are poised to sink them.

why do you think Saddleback would mean anything to Catholic voters?

This doesn’t make much sense to me. Could you clarify?

Morgoth may agree with me. If not, I apologize.

Oh, don’t worry Gene, I’m not a delicate little flower (like a certain ‘Aid Worker’ who occasionally posts here, for example). You may get carried away with the fairies at the first sign of seemingly superior oratorical excess, but I’m more of the Bertie Wooster school myself.

Biden has presumably come over from McCain to Obama because he draws the line at treason. And there is simply no other word for it.

Randy Scheunemann signed the Project for the New American Century letter to Bill Clinton demanding war against Iraq; that was four years before 9/11. He signed the PNAC ultimatum to Bush, nine days after 9/11, threatening him with political reprisal if he did not go to war against Iraq, which had undoubtedly had nothing to do with 9/11, and war against which the PNAC, including Scheunemann, had demanded fully four years earlier. He was executive director of the old crook Ahmad Chalabi’s “Committee for the Liberation of Iraq”.

And now, Scheunemann is John McCain’s nominee in waiting to be National Security Adviser. Between January 2007 to March 2008, the McCain campaign paid him $70,000. During those same 15 months, his Orion Strategies was paid $290,000 by the Georgian regime of Mikheil Saakashvili, in return for NATO membership, or at least the guarantee that America would go to war to defend Georgia even if Saakashvili launched some idiotic incursion into Abkhazia or South Ossetia and thus earned himself the wrath of Russia. He nearly succeeded. As National Security Adviser, he would succeed.

Scheunemann’s two-man lobbying firm received $730,000 from Georgia from 2001 onwards. He was also paid by Romania and Latvia to do the same for them. And in their cases, he did succeed. Thanks to Scheunemann, America and Britain are now treaty-bound to intervene militarily in Latvia if Russia goes in to halt some violence against the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians living there. Scheunemann arranged this state of affairs for cold, hard cash.

Treason.

There is simply no other word for it.

Furthermore, McCain is looking at his own Georgia. The rich, white eastern provinces of Bolivia are on the brink of a Rightist secession. These are not people who speak English as their first language, as the South Ossetians speak Russian. Nor are they American citizens, as the South Ossetians are Russian citizens.

But just look at the people to whom John McCain is appealing, as Hillary Clinton did. With Robert Kagan as Secretary of State, not just diplomatic recognition, but military intervention, would be guaranteed. After all, is this not the backyard, the near abroad?

And did you all hear The Westminster Hour? What is becoming of it?This week, we first got some loon from the wholly discredited Adam Smith Institute, given fully a quarter of an hour to bang on about how it was all the fault of the rabid Socialism of George Bush.

And then on came some loon from the wholly discredited Henry Jackson Society (previously assumed to be as defunct as the wholly discredited Euston Manifesto) to demand a war against Russia, as well as the vast transfer of public spending from public services and the relief of poverty to such people’s own thoroughly pecuniary military-industrial interests.

Of course, they can’t both be right, although they can certainly both be wrong, which they are.

But see your license fees being spent.

This is like Cameran endorsing the BNP, but saying he respects their influence over White people, but doesn’t appreciate their racism.

Wright is a low life race-baiter. His praise of Hammas and adoration of an unabashed antisemitic racist and Islamist will drag Obama down, as will his association with crooks and terrorists. By the end of this campaign, he’d be lucky to get elected to Dog Catcher.

Not obvious why you think that’s the case: Wright didn’t endorse Farrakhan, that I’ve seen; he simply said that Farrakhan had used his influence to do some good. Adoration and endorsement are hardly appropriate descriptions for his attitude. Not, of course, that this has anything to do with Obama himself.

Again, it is really difficult to see where this guilt by association argument is going, and where it would take us if it were applied consistently. Some Catholic clergy have recently behaved very badly, as we all know. But surely nobody is arguing that those Catholics – yes, even Catholics in public positions – who chose to maintain membership of their parishes through the scandals approved of their clergy’s activities?

Silly argument, Emmanuel. Having a white ancestor that one hasn’t chosen is not at all the same thing as deliberately adopting a child from a different race.

Ah, I see. Voluntary actions are the criterion now? So voluntarily adopting a child of a (visibly) different race counts as evidence that McCain isn’t a racist? Well, then, voluntarily using crude ethnic slurs against Asians, in public no less, must count as evidence for the prosecution mustn’t it?

You are moving the goalposts, Emmanuel. No surprise there. We were talking about family members, not public statements. You claimed that having an ancestor of colour X is relevant to one’s political position. I am arguing that this is a racist statement, and that the skin colour of one’s ancestors is irrelevant: it’s a given, and one can’t control it. On the other hand, making a deliberate decision to adopt someone is an action that one controls.

Great McCain ad featuring Hillary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NrQ36Djf2E

What’s smart about this simple and cheap (short running time) ad is that it connects with the Hillary campaign that will take place at the Dem Convention. Protests are expected. The implication is that Obama hasn’t picked Hillary because Hillary has sussed him out.

Whereas, “Poor Boy” Biden sees a lucrative job as Veep and is willing to forget he said Obama had no experience. “Presidency no place for on-the-job training” he said.

I’d love to see the Republicans running that 3:00am ad with the phone ringing and Obama shouting out “Michelle, will you get that!”

I thought Joe Biden’s speech was a very good one, especially when he talked about the five and half years he had spent as a POW in North Vietnam!
(You did not think Biden was going to completely escape his appropriating Neil Kinnock and his family, did you, Gene?)

Paging David Lindsay’s nurse: Please bring your patient back to his room. He is overdue for his medication, thank you.

“why do you think Saddleback would mean anything to Catholic voters?
This doesn’t make much sense to me. Could you clarify?”

The Saddleback event was aimed specifically at Evangelicals. Many of the questions were phrased in Evangelical buzzwords. I don’t see how this can have made much of an impression on Catholics. I don’t theink it even made much of an impression on Balck Protestants, because they probbaly didn’t pay much attention to the event. That’s all.

Jim, OK, I see.
When I look at the list of questions I don’t see any evangelical brand. They are fundamental questions asked in an open manner that Catholics are bound to be as interested in as anybody. Some are obviously questions about morality and separation of state but as many are generic values questions.

I rather like Biden, for a politician. I would have preferred for him to have been the Democratic nominee over the rest of the field. I certainly think it’s a slightly positive sign for a potential Obama presidency. Not exactly sold on the merits of the choice from Obama’s position, though.

And then the thread was hijacked by Benjamin and Shmuel arguing that something was acceptable or not racist if it fell under some undefined level of general harm on average. That was alternately mind-numbing and entertaining.