Harry’s Place

Game over

HP continuity:

“David Duke is busy stealing from me. I have a mind to go down there and sue that dude for intellectual property theft.”

- Pat Buchanan, Manchester, NH Union Leader, December 15, 1991

Gene.
This selction could go anywhere.

What are the odds on Palinn being an Eagleton.

Gene.
This selction could go anywhere.

What are the odds on Palinn being an Eagleton.

Well, I’m sure there’s more interesting stuff about her out there.

Palin won’t be an Eagleton; conservatives love her. Her selection will probably earn more votes for McCain from the right, but he definitely won’t attract votes from the left or the center with this pick.

Larry,
Your Delich/Duke research bears fruit.

Damn, this may well be the first time that I’ve ever decided to get behind Harry’s Place’s customary X supported Y ergo X must think Z smear politics.

I do it out of sheer political utility - I want Obama to be elected President of the United States. Perhaps those who support McCain, or even those who are ambivalent about Obama, might now understand why this horrible, shitty form of guilt-by-association politics should be utterly shunned.

Or not, as I suspect the case may be.

Yah, right. Her support for Pat Buchanan in 1996 is going to force her off the ticket.

You people are funny. What happened to the McCain Houses meme? Oh, yeah. Nobody’s talking about it anymore. Uh, btw, nobody’s talking about Barack’s sermon last night, either.

Try again. Maybe if you people look real hard you can find her Klan Robes or her lifetime subscription to The Fiery Cross.

This choice could be a disaster for McCain. I certainly hope so.

“Palin backed Buchanan in 1999″

Which is bad, but Obama backed Jeremiah Wright in 2008. The same Wright who has strongly supported the racist, anti-Israel, Holocaust-minimizing, anti-gay and borderline antisemitic Louis Farrakhan.

“Israeli society as a whole has serious racism problems, mainly concerning Palestinians and foreign workers.”

It takes quite a lot to get bumped off a ticket - neither Spiro Agnew nor Richard Nixon were, though their running mates regretted their choice rather speedily. (There might be some sort of irony there).

Palin supporting a bigotted nut job nine years ago and using her position to get at her brother-in-law certainly won’t see her dropped. Still - didn’t they vet her to make sure there was nothing like this in the woodshed? If they didn’t think this could be a problem, why not.

It’s not going to change the race, but it looks like a wee gift to the Democrats. (If you were a precinct captain in, say, Palm Beach would you not try and get this information out there? Of course you would.)

Pat Buchanan is a real conservative, unlike these Israel-Firsters we have running for President. Good for Palin. It almost makes me inclined to vote for McCain, but for the fact he’s crazy, will start a war with Russia, and is obsessed with Hispanicizing America.

Compared to Sharon, Buchanan is positively saintly. Who will be the first person here to condemn the Butcher of Sabra and Chatila?

Hispanicizing America.

Chorizo Imperialism.Its a crime.

Chorizo is good. And most of America is already “hispanicised”…Mexico, Guatemala, Peru, Bolivia, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina…there’s only a handful of American countries left for Buchanan to obsess over.

Diarmiud.
I suspect we’ve both had a drink.

But Sabra and Chatila in this thread?

What happened to the McCain Houses meme? Oh, yeah. Nobody’s talking about it anymore.

Yes they are, do a google search

Uh, btw, nobody’s talking about Barack’s sermon last night, either.

Yes they are, do a google search

Obama backed Jeremiah Wright in 2008

No he didn’t, do a google search

Welcome to the world wide web

Sabra and Chatila in this thread? I thought double-standards were de rigeur in all threads on this blog?

“No he didn’t, do a google search”

Herman, yes he did, remember the big speech about how he couldn’t disown him anymore than his grandmother? If it comes down to a contest of who has the worst associates then Obama loses every time.

I’m confused.

By the exact same token, someone who supported George Galloway at some point in their life could be smeared with the ‘anti-semitic et al.’ brush.

How many here are tossing stones in glass houses?

If I were an American voter, I would take a breath and vote Obama (less tightly now with Biden). This makes it all the more necessary.

Who will be the first person here to condemn the Butcher of Sabra and Chatila?

Elie Hobeika?

Elie Hobeika?

Yeah…whatever happened to him, anyway? He never seems to be on the news anymore…

May I recommend that people ignore Diarmuid. He is adding nothing to the conversation and showing no inclination to further his knowledge.

Ethan - are you suggesting that HP wouldn’t stoop to that?

May I recommend that people ignore Diarmuid.

My experiences on this website (”You’re worse than the Nazis!!!”) have shown that there is little to further my knowledge. That said, it has been illuminating. I had never realised how impervious to reason the pro-occupationists were.

In the meantime, I, for one, will follow your recommendation.

By the exact same token, someone who supported George Galloway at some point in their life could be smeared with the ‘anti-semitic et al.’ brush.

Nonsense. Galloway is not an anti semite.
If you support George you have to be tolerant of a financially corrupt MP.
But not an anti semite.

Tim, don’t forget being tolerant of apologists of Baathist dictators and admirers of the rapist sons. But not an antisemite.

Wow. Big deal.

For the US public this will be a non-story. In any case, most citizens watching Buchanan’s television punditry on MSNBC these days would easily mistake him for a pseudo-liberal, given how most of his ideas tally with those of the far left.

Guess what? Ken Livingstone backed George Galloway years ago. Therefore he must be an anti-semite.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the lower/upper case alternation in old Labour’s handle is significant, but can’t put my finger on it. This is a poster whom I first noticed when she (why do I think of her as such?) was gloating over KL’s departure, and welcoming the return to Old Labour with… BJ.

You can think of me as you like Alec.

Significant that for a supposed left-wing site, none think it significant to mention that Palin’s husband, Todd, is a union member of the United Steelworkers. Now there’s a real blue-collar working-class connection for you to sink your teeth into, pseudo-liberals.

Her full letter is here:

Anchorage Daily News July 26, 1999

As mayor of Wasilla, I am proud to welcome all presidential candidates to our city. This is true regardless of their party, or the latest odds of their winning. When presidential candidates visit our community, I am always happy to meet them. I’ll even put on their button when handed one as a polite gesture of respect.

Though no reporter interviewed me for the Associated Press article on the recent visit by a presidential candidate (Metro, July 17), the article may have left your readers with the perception that I am endorsing this candidate, as opposed to welcoming his visit to Wasilla. As mayor, I will welcome all the candidates in Wasilla.

– Sarah Palin

So this is fairly inconsequential is it not?

Oh dear, looks as if Palin wasn’t a diehard Buchanan supporter after all.

Move on pseudo-liberals. Orgasm over Gene.

Well I never…only a day after publishing self-serving bilge about how great it was to see Harry’s Place fighting back against those who would wish to slaughter free speech, I now find my posts are beginning to disappear!!!

“Liberty, if it means anything, is…what???”

THE GEOGRAPHY OF TRUTH AND NOT SOME KIND OF SUPERFICIAL SMEAR BY ASSOCIATION CAMPAIGN OF THE KIND THAT THIS WEB SITE WOULD NEVER STOOP TO

Sarah Palin >>>> SHOOK HANDS WITH >>>> Pat Buchanan (evil incarnate) >>>> CLOSELY ASSOCIATED JOURNALISTICALLY WITH >>> Taki (nasty scummy racist drug smuggler) >>>> CLOSELY ASSOCIATED JOURNALISTICALLY WITH >>>> BORIS JOHNSON (Harry’s Place Preferred Candidate).

Ergo: Sarah Palin not so bad. One of us in fact.

However, if her selection is an attempt to win over angry Hillary Clinton voters, her “pro-life” stance may be a problem.

Or possibly not… Some of them are pretty stoopid; indeed some of them are more concerned that Obama is black. One thing is for sure - McCain’s going to hoover up the racist vote - which may be considerable.

OL, this pseudo-liberal jibe is becoming as tedious as that UCU weirdo’s attempts to shoe-horn Israel into every thread. Gene is a left-winger and, it may just be me, I simply do not think of this when I see “liberal”. I think, wackily enough, of classical liberalism.

Palin’s husband, Todd, is a union member of the United Steelworkers. Now there’s a real blue-collar working-class connection for you to sink your teeth into, pseudo-liberals.

I just about fell over when I heard that!

That’s what I call street cred. And of all trades, Steel workers no less! No flower arranging here. :D

“Liberty, if it means anything, is…what???”

It was replaced by, liberty if it means anything at all is the right not to have to watch to the same potty-contents smearing day in, day out. Failing that the perfect right to bring to attention the endorsement by soi distant anti-racists of antisemitic calumnies which may or may not be found on ex-Klansmen’s webpages.

Now, I’ll ask this out of hope more than expectation, do you have *anything* to say on the subject in hand?

Piffle. I disagree with George Galloway, whom I think is unctuous in the extreme around totalitarians when they’re non-Western and with a bit of money, but not an antisemite. I don’t know if you’re an antisemite either. You don’t have the substance.

Yeah and Todd’s Union supports Obama! Duh!

Pat Buchanan is neither racist nor anti-semitic, nor necessarily anti-Israel. He’s been highly skeptical of our symbiotic relationship with Israel and blanket support of their policies. Count me strongly skeptical on both counts as well. Thats not the same thing as hating Israel or wishing them harm. In fact, I’d say Bush’s cheerleading of Israel’s bungled war with Lebanon did them no favors - and certainly didn’t do us any good. As a matter of fact, Pat Buchanan has been one of the most reasonable and consistent commentator out there in examining Bush’s disastrous foreign policy the last eight years. More than most of liberals. I was a Gore man in 2000 - still am I must say - but I’d say our country would have been better served with a Buchanan administration than a Bush one.

Yeah and Todd’s Union supports Obama! Duh!

Unions supporting Democrats? Duh!

I’ve never heard of this Palin character and I’ve never heard of this Buchanan character. Is he at all important?

It’s Gene’s (among others) attempt to smear the reputation of the Republican VP candidate, Dan.

Or possibly not… Some of them are pretty stoopid; indeed some of them are more concerned that Obama is black. One thing is for sure - McCain’s going to hoover up the racist vote - which may be considerable.

So Hillary Clinton’s female support base are stupid racists who don’t really care about their rights over their own bodies?!

I know it’s Benji, but I’m sure he’s speaking for a largish group of hatefilled reactionaries posing as “liberal leftists” - a group whose misogyny and contempt for women is so utterly entrenched that the mere possibility that a group of woman voters might not vote for the Benji approved candidate means they are all stupid lazy racists.

The most revolting thing is that Benji, like his ilk, never really wanted Obama to win. They wanted him to fail so that they could whine about “racist America” while being relieved that they have 4 more years of not taking responsibility for anything ever.

Sarah Palin’s husband is an Inuit. A white woman who eloped with a Eskimo, had five children and became the Republican Governer of Alaska.

The only racist here is you, Benjamin Mackie. Take your misogyny and your disgusting, obvious and cynical exploiting of US race relations and fuck off.

You racist, misogynist cunt.

Again - Pat Buchanan, in 2008, here and now, is turning cartwheels over Obama precisely and only because Pat hopes, with some reason, that Obama will expel the Israel Lobby, reveal his true Saidian self, and destroy Israel. One can hardly blame him for hoping this is the case - so does every respectable anti-Semite in the U.S. (see any posting in MondoWeiss). Sarah Palin is objectively the last best hope for anti-anti-Zionists hereabouts.
In 1999, Pat’s views on Israel were the same, but they were much less front-and-center, and they existed in a very different intellectual milieu, when such views were actually regarded with horror.
If she was drawn to Pat in 1999 for the same reason others were, it would be because of his big issues then: anti-immigration, protectionism, isolationism in general and cultural conservatism. The middle east problem was not a big deal for them, and Pat downplayed the issue.
This dog won’t hunt, as they say in Alaska (I’m told).

Alec Macpherson: The DSTPFW blog exposes you as a racist and a ‘right-wing cunt’. Assuming you are the same Alec Macpherson, what say you in defence?

The only racist here is you, Benjamin Mackie. Take your misogyny and your disgusting, obvious and cynical exploiting of US race relations and fuck off.

+10 Well said Phomesy.

The most revolting thing is that Benji, like his ilk, never really wanted Obama to win.

Too true Phomesy. Benji wanted a Ron Paul-Dennis Kucinich ticket. And to top off that quite telling indicator of both his profound lack of political acumen and his ideological preference for conspiratorial crass populists on the irony meter, the nabob of sneering negativity and warrior champion against the evil scurge of “decency” thinks of himself as being perfectly in tune with the political center and middle of the road.

He’s been highly skeptical of our symbiotic relationship with Israel and blanket support of their policies.

There never has been support, let alone blanket support for Jewish settlement expansion in Gaza and the West Bank, nor for restricting US arm sales to Israel’s enemies, nor a carte blanche for loan guarantees under any US administrations.

And secondly, it appears, given your preposterous defense of paleocon bigot Pat Buchanan, that although you both employ propaganda and unsubstantiated Lindburghian catch phrases because you want to concoct a warped and false image of the actual relationship between Israel and the US - one which is and ought to be symbiotic - as a relationship which is malignantly parasitic, you, as opposed to Buchanan - who has no compunctions whatsoever about using the term parasitic - really don’t have the foggiest clue about what the term symbiotic means.

The only racist here is you, Benjamin Mackie. Take your misogyny and your disgusting, obvious and cynical exploiting of US race relations and fuck off.

Blimey! Nice bit of slander. I haven’t said anything to merit such a strained accusation, but I hope you feel better after that. Nice to use my name full name for those all important Google searches. You devil, you ;-)

You forgot to mention, before you exploded in disgust, splutter, splutter, that I am actually “worse than a Nazi”; I was politely informed of that by an equally unhinged HPer recently.

It really is a most bizarre forum, this.

You ain’t as toxic as a Nazi, Benji. Just regurgitated bile.

SL, I’ll take the past two comments directed at me to mean, I can dish it but cannot take it. But, yes it is me. Likewise for that washed-out lumpen Geordie half-pissed on buckie.

McCain’s going to hoover up the racist vote - which may be considerable.
Yet 92% of Blacks are backing Obama….go figure!

The proudly white-supremacist racist vote is going to Obama, led by KKKman David Duke, who has endorsed him in a Leninist ploy, as the New Republic reported Aug. 29th. The condescending bien pensant liberal racist vote is going to Obama - and this faction’s tribunes are already announcing that anyone who doesn’t vote for him is a racist.
So that just doesn’t leave many racists around to vote for McCain, unfortunately for Nick’s theory.

The proudly white-supremacist racist vote is going to Obama, led by KKKman David Duke, who has endorsed him in a Leninist ploy, as the New Republic reported Aug. 29th. The condescending bien pensant liberal racist vote is going to Obama - and this faction’s tribunes are already announcing that anyone who doesn’t vote for him is a racist. So that just doesn’t leave many racists around to vote for McCain, unfortunately for Nick’s theory.

Excellent point Sam. No surprise to find that Pat Buchanan himself is rooting for Obama too. Birds of a feather…

Which feather is that, Old Labour?

Buchanan sees the neocons for what they are (old Trots, simply going about it by different means), and he says so.

Buchanan is right about family values (strongly shared by Obama’s black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about strictly limited and strictly legal immigration (strongly shared by Obama’s black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about “free” trade (strongly shared by Obama’s black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about constitutional checks and balances (strongly shared by Obama’s black base), right about real national security (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about energy independence (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about real environmental responsibility, right about Second Amendment rights and responsibilities (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about Civil Rights (not “affirmative action”, and in those terms (strongly shared by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton, as well as by a growing number of blacks who see the Hispanics getting AA these days), right about America as an English-speaking country (very, very strongly shared by Obama’s black base, and by the rural and blue-collar whites who rallied to Clinton), right about foreign policy realism, and at least open to the Biblico-Patristic critique of Americanism itself.

But Buchanan is wrong about the protection of workers and consumers (although he is not terribly badly wrong on that one these days), wrong about fair tax (likewise), wrong about universal health care, wrong about Social Security, and wrong about Civil Rights (in the sense that he still makes occasional rhetorical flourishes towards the remaining George Wallace Tendency, not they are ever going to get anywhere now).

Obama, however, is right about these things. Palin probably is, too. But McCain isn’t.

Lindsay: it may surprise you to learn that I’d already guessed you were a Pat Buchanan fan.

Enough said.

PS. Reposting entries verbatim from your blog of doggerel will not induce more people to visit.

And I’d already guessed that you hate blacks and blue-collar and/or rural whites.

Enough said.

Which is bad, but Obama backed Jeremiah Wright in 2008. The same Wright who has strongly supported the racist, anti-Israel, Holocaust-minimizing, anti-gay and borderline antisemitic Louis Farrakhan.

Right you are.

But Obama is black, and so lapses into what can only be called dubious and remedial moral views are to be tolerated and excused.

Obama has the benefit and advantage of being measured by a different moral yardstick.

White Republicans are imperial and Black Democrats metric.

Obama has a lovely family, and American black are indeed proud of him - the black Baptist church in my Virginia town is full of expressions of pride. But in general the Democrats have sold out the family values of their black clients on a regular basis. The black electorate is strongly pro-life and anti-gay marriage, while its leaders are forced to “grow” into the opposite positions - as did Jesse Jackson. Obama of course did not come up from city politics, but was a creature of the white elites of Chicago, who paid his dues, as his wife probably explained to him that he must, by sitting in an ultra-black-nationalist church for 20 years (evidently asleep in the pews, for he never heard the Revd. Mr. Wright utter a harsh word).
In fact, it’s fair to say that Obama contains within himself all the contradictions of the modern Democratic Party - with radical yearnings (Edward Said and Bill Ayers and Michelle’s Princeton thesis) and elite HYP attitudes, but understanding that they must reach out to the masses they rather despise (bittergate and the absence of country music in Denver), while feeling entitled to more - bigger houses, better salaries, more respect. As a couple, the Obamas remind one of the Blairs without their shared work ethic, Chrei’s competence and Tony’s imagination.