Harry’s Place

runs walking tours

Me - plus some.

We have about 10 people coming now, so the price is dropping!

I’d like to come

If you want to come, make sure you email me at davidt.harryblog@gmail.com

Sadly can’t make it but love this sort of thing. See Oliver Kamm for a debunking position on the Cable Street riots, though, if you want to ad a bit of polemical balance.

Fighting fascists, eh? How jolly exciting. The only danger a fascist would be in if confronted by ‘who ate all the bagels’ Rosenberg and his super pals would be that it is theoretically possible to die of laughter.

Sounds good. Wish I could saunter along, but I am out of the country, chaps.

Can we synchronise this with Jude Law’s ceasefire day? The east end is pretty rough and I wouldn’t want to get shot while empathising with all those brave anti-fascists.

the role of organisations such as the … Communist Party in mobilising people to defend their communities

While glossing over their utter failure to even censure the activities of their murderous Soviet comrades.

Hmm, wish I could make it too, especially as an ex-Eastender/son of Irish immigrant. Must remember the tour next time I’m in London.

P.

I will attend, but only if no jews are allowed

Lovely idea, I’ll be there and try to drum up a few of the locals. (There’re still a few locals alive that were there - albeit not necessarily on the right side!)

That would be ace.

I’ve heard a rumour that the offspring of some of the people who fought at Cable Street live only about a mile away! Surely not.

Are you going to come Michael?

Weiss;

The fight is not of the braun variety. You are so lacking in imagination.

Might be in Blighty then, so I may come.

We’re up to 21 attendees.

“We’re up to 21 attendees”

How many are jews?

good luck on your walk, unity in walking

and I hope that if you meet any proto-fascists like Flanker that you express that unity in a very meaningful way!

I’ll come, thanks

I’m on stage at the Polka theatre at that time, and I think DR knows and appreciates in his generous way, that I know the story and the circuit pretty well. I was told it before I could read and again many times over up until my father died a few weeks ago. We’re online somewhere speaking together at the anniversary in 2006.

I’d like to attend too. Email in the post.

I wish you a long life, Michael.

David: You may want to put your email in another format or a spammer will use it to destroy your email account.

Wish I could come, but I’m away.

I and one other would love to come….

How about another day out?
http://www.coej.org/images/stories/secreteriat/al-quds-2008.jpg

still sponsored by both the swp/stop the war and the gallahwayite respect.

Darren

I think it won’t happen this time. Two of the organisers - one Iranian and one lefty - have new babies and so are unlikely to be able to do this in time. Surprisingly, it takes quite a lot of organising.

You could have a bash, of course: but it would mean liaising with the police(!)

Next year…

O/T

Alaskan day out

JEWS FOR JESUS: David Brickner, executive director of Jews for Jesus, will give a Bible-based message at 9:30 a.m. Aug. 17 at Wasilla Bible Church, 1651 W. Nicola Ave. For details, call 1-907-376-2176 or visit jewsforjesus.org.

In regards to Governor Palin being a member or attending Church on the Rock, this is a statement about her church involvement. Before running for Governor of Alaska she frequently attended Church on the Rock for approximately one year. Since that time she has visited on occasion and now attends Wasilla Bible Church with her family. Wasilla Bible Church is a life giving church that has blessed our community. Governor Palin is a wonderful Christian woman with outstanding leadership qualities. Our prayers are with the Governor and her family.

Well perhaps in 72 years time Harry’s Place will like to organised a jolly up to Condor in Derbyshire, where over 500 people including Muslims and members Socialist Action, SWP and UCU met on Saturday 16th August 2008 and took to the streets in to oppose the fascist “Red, White and Blue” festival.

After all HP seemed to miss it first time around. Too busy taken “real” fascists like Clare Short, I note: http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/08/16/clare-short-is-guest-of-hezbollah-tv-in-lebanon/

well richard, given the coverage I saw on SU blog I might have expected a bit more, er, realistic analysis of events

see http://www.socialistunity.com/?s=BNP

I was out of the country, sadly, for pretty much all of August, but I’d certainly have gone if I’d been in the UK.

However, perhaps you can tell me why the SWP-Socialist Action controlled UAF sought to fight the local anti-BNP campaigners, instead of join with them:

This protest was initiated by Nottinghamshire Stop the BNP, a campaign launched in January by a conference of one hundred labour movement, student and anti-fascist activists sponsored by local unions including FBU, UCU, Unison and the NUT. Notts Stop the BNP aims to build an anti-fascist movement on a working-class basis - mobilising mass action to physically confront the fascists and raising social demands around issues like jobs, homes and services to undercut their base.

The protest also involves Derby Unite Against Fascism, other local anti-fascist groups and a multitude of trade union organisations. East Midlands Unison, East Midlands TUC and the rail union RMT are sponsoring it, and RMT general secretary Bob Crow will be speaking.

Unfortunately, the national Unite Against Fascism organisation has been less keen to support the protest. After months of refusing to acknowledge the issue at all - ignoring repeated invitations to come and get involved in the organisation of the protest, and refusing to announce it from the platform at various national events - UAF has now called its own protest, taking place just down the road and at a different time from where and when the main protest is taking place!! (The UAF website implies that theirs is the only protest and supported by all the sponsors, but this is simply not true.)

UAF leader Weyman Bennett met representatives of the local campaign - including the chair of Derby UAF and a representative of East Midlands TUC - on Friday 25 July, but refused to agree to the amalgamation of the protests.

If I’d gone, I think I’d have had difficulty in going on an anti-racist demonstration organised by one party which formed a political party with Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood, and which tours around Gilad Atzmon, while proclaiming themselves to be “anti-racist”; and another party which spent most of Livingstone’s second term lying about the extreme racist and homophobic politics of Qaradawi.

Thank heavens for Nottinghamshire Stop the BNP

As I am sure you will find out in October the anti-fascist movement in Britain has always had internal sectarian toil. Indeed if I remember rightly there were major disputes over the best tactics in Cable Street. So sure SWP, Socialist Action, Workers Liberty and Searchlight have all behaved appallingly. The point is however, they where there, and worked to get people there – Harry’s Place however did jack shit!

According to Notts Stop the BNP

- They had been organising a local campaign for months
- Your lot didn’t want to know
- They then turned up and tried to organise a separate protest

The truth of the matter is that you’re all about trying to recruit people to your crappy little party. A party which, incidentally, promotes racists and attacks anti-racists.

I see you’re now admitting that Socialist Action exists!

So why didn’t HP support the Notts Stop the BNP rally?

As you may or may not appreciate, it is difficult to keep on top of all the news when (a) you have a job (b) and a new baby and (c) you’re not physically in the country.

for a more realistic report of the events than trot fantasies try antifa http://www.antifa.org.uk/nucleus3.32/nucleus332/index.php?itemid=80

I feel that I should have flagged Codnor up here since it’s closer to my backyard than the londoners, but it was pretty clearly never going to be anything like Cable St.

David my love, you really are a tonic! I haven’t had such a good laugh in a long time. See, I note that despite your heavy work schedule, and nappy changing duties that you managed on the 2nd August to posted two articles on HP; on the 4th , 5th and 8th you posted one; and on Wednesday 6th August (a working day for most of us) you excelled yourself by posting three articles on the same day.

Moreover the protest against the RWB was hardly top secret. Notts Stop the BNP rally leaflet was posted on the Socialist Unity on the 22 July 2008. And I know you saw because you made a number of contributions to the subsequent debate. Including a posting in which you said: “At least I had the guts to take on fascists. By contrast, the SWP see a BNP rally as little more than a pretext for recruiting one or two new paper sellers.” (Comment by David T — 22 July, 2008 @ 2:16 pm)

Well evidently not dear boy ‘cause you couldn’t even be arse to post an article on HP!

Richard, your argument that David hasn’t done enough to support the anti-fascist movement would carry more weight if you didn’t actively support racist organisations. Much as I despise the SWP, Respect and Hezbollah, I wouldn’t attend a march organised by the BNP against them.

And David, I can’t help noticing that you never did post that promised write-up on Morrissey’s Tel Aviv gig. Do I have to point out that your commitment to that cause is also starting to look decidedly shaky?

“Weiss;The fight is not of the braun variety. You are so lacking in imagination.”

Actually, youre right. This particular ‘fight’ was hardly a fight at all - it was a demonstration, and a lot of post-demo PR by the British CP.

If you want to commemorate the real fight against fascism, let me suggest three places:

Arlington, Virginia.

The RAF museum, Hendon.

The Museum of the great patriotic war, Kiev.

Leave this nonsense to Tubby Rosenberg and other Jewish Sealed Knot Society types like him….

To Tim Allon:

Fuck off, zionist cunt

Re. Antifa and their fascist methodology there was a good article in the Guardian today:

“By fighting with police, taking private property and scaring residents, they gifted the BNP a PR victory by allowing them to seem the more law-abiding and reasonable group.”

I notice that the 2nd paragraph of the piece Darren Redstar links to contains the home address and phone numbers of the man on whose land Red, White & Blue was held. One of the comments on the Guardian piece was from someone who used to be involved with Antifa, and said “The violence was pretty disgraceful and led to numerous people being hospitalised, and after I left, to a number of anti-fascists being jailed. I met people who had used axes, iron bars, smoke bombs, cs gas etc.”

Fascism there.

Fuck off, zionist cunt

Quipped Richard, quick as a flash.

I was interested in the phrase, “zionist cunt” used as an insult. Assuming that the Tim Allon is a Zionist (which I am not) and, presumably, proud of it there seems not much point in shouting it as it would not be heard as an insult. Tim Allon is perhaps pleased to be called one. So that leaves the posting as effectively “Fuck off, cunt”. I’ve never found that shouting “Fuck off, cunt” helps my case. Perhaps Richard Farnon has a different experience.

Farnos is unity in action typified?

if Farnos had a moment’s reflection, or even read the above articles, then he would see that bragging about waving placards is not going to defeat the BNP

shame he’s so hung up about “Zionists”?

and I doubt Farnos would see why that is an issue?

or why such an attitude could weaken an already fragmented opposition to the BNP?

still I suppose in the 1930’s it was shouting “social-fascist” at people, now it is “Zionist!”,

do you remember the consequences, richard? did you read any Trotsky? if so, re-read it and ponder

Looking forward to the walk and discussion on the way on October 12th. Just to reassure you that if it rains, the walk will go ahead but bring an umbrella. if you have family who were at Cable street and are still alive, talk to them - their memories are very welcome.

Weiss, don’t get so worked up. Believe me, it’s bad for you. That chip on your shoulder is looking seriously ugly…

And Modernity, yes, Trotsky is always worth reading, especially on fascism, even if he gets a bit verbose sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AQDOjQGZuA

indeed David, but then again I am a great one for reading, however, you might want to explain my allusion to some of these “anti-Zionists” like Farnos, not sure that he’ll understand it unless you enlighten him, directly.

to richard farnos:

fuck off, fascist misogynist scum

Farnos shat:

over 500 people including Muslims and members Socialist Action, SWP and UCU met on Saturday 16th August 2008 and took to the streets in to oppose the fascist “Red, White and Blue” festival.

That’ll be the same festival where the crib-sheet forgetting that 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust got handed out? Perhaps some of your co-protesters might have been unhappy with that “fact”?

For fuck’s sake.

Like going to an anti-Nazi rally and forgetting Hitler ever existed.

Cunts.

At the demonstration against the fascist BNP’s “Red, White, and Blue” festival in Codnor, Derbyshire, on 16 August, the SWP was circulating a contact sheet.

The document (attached) described itself as a “petition”, though it had spaces only for names, not signatures, and the text directly above the name/ address/ details blanks was “Join UAF”. Then at the bottom it said “return to Love Music Hate Racism”, but identified itself as “initiated by Socialist Worker”.

Whatever. It was a political statement to identify and attract people to the SWP. The statement was about denouncing the BNP, and the real strangeness of the document was in the statement’s politics, not its odd labelling.

“The BNP”, it exclaimed, “deny the holocaust”. The author evidently thought that some readers might not know what “the Holocaust” was. So she or he defined it: “the holocaust, where thousands of LGBT people, trade unionists, and disabled people were slaughtered”.
End of definition. Jews too? No mention of that.

It cannot actually be that the SWP wants to appeal to people who may consider it all right that Hitler killed six million Jews, but think it too much that he also killed LGBT people, etc.

Or that the SWP itself considers that the killing of Jews was not an important, or not an objectionable, part of the Holocaust.

On some level, surely, that clause in the statement must be a slip, a mishap. But for such a slip to pass unnoticed through writer, typesetter, printer, organisers, and distributors, without anyone at any stage picking it up, must say something.

We wonder what the SWP’s partners in UAF think of the document.

Nice demo - shame half the attendees were thick reactionary cunts who turned up for brownie points rather than genuine solidarity, eh?

Ignoring all the boring mud-slinging…

I’ve been on one of David’s other walks and found it extremely interesting. I’ll come along for this one if the half price student/ layabout discount still applies?

Richard Farnos:

“To Tim Allon:

Fuck off, zionist cunt”

Richard, I’m not a “Zionist”. Did you mean Jew?

Rob,
Thanks for the positive comment about my other walk. For customised group bookings there is just one price for all participants, though when the numbers get to 21 plus, which I believe they are for this one, then the price comes a little below the regular price - £6.50 per person instead of £7.

If the unwaged discount makes a significant difference - you can get this on my general Cable Street walks on September 7 or September 28th.

“Weiss, don’t get so worked up. Believe me, it’s bad for you. That chip on your shoulder is looking seriously ugly…”

Hmm, apparently the reference to the Sealed Knot society hit a nerve. I think it more or less sums up Fatty Rosenberg’s activity, also in pretending to be an imaginary Bundist grand-dad, and also in fantasising about made-up anti-fascist heroics 70 years ago. Worked up? you are hilarious, tubs - keep it up.

Sorry, I’ve not noticed him before. Is Weiss a genuine Nazi (ie: one who doesn’t even pretend to be “just antizionist”)? How fascinating!

um, well, not exactly….

- oh, and to Richard Farnos - shouldnt that be

‘Fuck off, Zionist cunt.

All the best!

Richard Farnos.’

I mean, cant one rely on anything in this mixed up crazy world anyomore??

Is your grand day out gonna end up with a trip to Nandos?

Crap.

99 % of these ‘anti-fascists’ would lead a howling mob to your front door if you were politically incorrect enough to ring their little Pavlovian bells.

They’re trained idiots, with no regard for personal liberty or free speech, except when it suits their agenda.

This is a good place to plug Clive Bettington and JEECS who do a fantastic job

http://www.jeecs.org.uk/

Weiss, I believe, represents the necessary downside of openness and inclusivity on the internet. It is unfortunate that people who are adults, and who wish to discuss anti-fascism in the past and present, have to share a virtual space with somebody who wishes to make fat jokes characteristic of an 8 year old. Weiss is probably one of those losers you meet in real life who assert that ’school days are the best days of your life’. The apex of his days were probably playing tag and engaging in childish playground banter.

Needless to say his assertion that the battle of cable street was simply a demo followed by good pr is simply rubbish. As Martin Pugh (a decidedly non-cmmunist historian who doubts the efficacy of anti-fascist actions at cable street) wrote of the event: ‘50,000 people had gathered to prevent the entry of the march into the east end, and between 100,000 and 300,000 waited on the route. Barricades were erected across cable street and police made repeated baton charges to try to clear a route.’

well - it was a demonstration, intended to stop the BUF entering the area, as a result of which large numbers of pro-Stalin people of various ethnic origins spent the day trying to injure police officers. The CP then invented a strange mythology according to which the BUF, having been instructed by the police not to enter the area, shrivelled up and blew away as a political force. This is nonsense and ‘magical thinking’, as a moment’s serious thought on the matter will make clear. It wasnt a ‘battle’ as silly sausages like you would know if you had been in a real battle.

Regarding the fat jokes, I’m sorry, and I understand your annoyance. I just find fat boy Rosenberg hilarious. Cant help it.

People like my parents were attacked by Mosleyite/fascist gangs. In Spain, an elected socialist government was attacked by Franco’s/fascist gangs. In Germany, Hitler’s/fascists were in power and had already put into place the raft of anti-trade union, anti-socialist, anti-communist, anti-Jewish legislation. The British government appeared to be siding with Germany on this matter. Mosley announced that he would march through the East End of London which at that time, within a few streets (including Cable Street) was a largely Jewish area. Yes, many of the people who opposed all these actions by fascists at home and abroad were Communists. No one else was. The Labour Party nationally wasn’t though of course small sections of it were. Mosely was conducting a campaign against ‘Jewish’ landlords (as if there weren’t any other landlords) and it would only be the CP organised rent strikes by largely Jewish tenants against the supposedly all-Jewish landlords that helped break the neck of that particular fascist bogeyman.

My mother would say, many years after, yes, we did find out that Stalin was a disaster and we were wrong to believe in him but who else could we turn to in the thirties? No one else was doing it for us. And at the time, we couldn’t believe that our enemy could be right about what had happened in Russia. We thought, she said, that they were making it up to discredit us.

And by the way, I had no idea that I shouldn’t think Dave Rosenberg should be taken seriously because someone on ‘decent’ , hyper-critical, HP says that he’s ‘fat’. I must write to him immediately and say that he’s a fool. Dear Dave, A wise poster on HP says you’re fat. Please consider our friendship terminated. I have lost all respect for you. Michael

Between the fattists and the fascists it seems rude to interrupt. Incidentally, Mike, one of the leaders of the aforementioned rent strikes was a CP activist known as “Tubby” Rosen (no relation?). No doubt in Weiss’s rather small and narrow world, another fallen hero. On one of the other threads today Weiss claims that his dad was West Ham supporter. I don’t often pray but, please god, don’t let him be my son, A shlemiel, shmegegge and a nar like that I wouldn’t want to be anywhere near, let alone related to, if I could possibly help it.

According to AFP yesterday, the arab residents of Umm-al-Fahm in Israel are objecting to a planned rally in their town by the Kach movement, and are ‘threatening to stop it,violently if necessary’.
I take it that all those posters on this thread planning on attending the ‘Big Day Out’ or reminiscing fondly about the events in 1936, are in solidarity with the residents of Umm-al- Fahm ?