Harry’s Place

can imagine Hillary herself, Barack Obama and Joe Biden too. But somehow, I just can’t picture Sarah Palin

I can imagine you in a Code Pink dress, heavy moustache shouting see me behind the bike shed for some oral sex. Does that mean that the consensus of people actually believe that my opinion or characterisation counts or is the truth?

I can see Obama shouting “Michelle get that and if its William Ayers tell him I ain’t coming out for a bomb run tonite”.

Tell us. Why can’t you see Palin answering the 3am call?

Your post is stupid and its a simple feeble link to an article in Sunday Times. Why?

To be fair, Obama has two years of solid media experience running for president, so it’s much easier to imagine him doing things.

I can, actually. Even if she was never a community organizer.

Your failure to imagine her doing something is one of the reasons she will be the Vice President in a mere two months and President in a mere four years.

Your snooty lefty condescencion is a weapon in your enemys armoury, Hitler after all was just a corporal in the German Army, Stalin the least likely to succeed Lenin and Thatcher just a grocers daughter from Finchley, Reagan just a B movie actor and George W Bush just a swaggering Texan redneck.

It might make you feel better to rip these people apart but the left in it’s collective condescencion in easing their path to power.

The saying ‘Despise not your enemy’ comes to mind here.

I take Sarah Palin seriously, You may say YOU can’t imagine her taking that call but SHE can , By all means underestimate her if it makes you feel good but you will cry into your beer in november.

And as for the ‘gates’, if that’s all you have you have nothing, She would not have been chosen if there was anything to this stuff.

Obama, Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale. Loser’s all.

Maven: Palin has minimal experience of international affairs or security related issues, so I find it quite terrifying that she might have the finger on the nuclear button if McCain is ill or incapacitated, as is quite possible, considering his age. I liked to the S Times article because it’s interesting and there is some good reporting there. You don’t have to read it.

Perhaps you should focus more on your undoubted talent for fantasy encounters. I’m flattered but there must be more welcoming blogs for that than HP. And what’s a Code Pink dress?

Read Nick Cohen´s article in today´s Guardian as well:
“When Barack´s berserkers lost the plot”.(on CiF)
My guess after reading the Times´ article is, that
“troopergate” will not sink Sarah Palin.

Nick Cohen:

When a hate campaign goes wrong, however, disaster follows. And everything that could go wrong with the campaign against Palin did. American liberals forgot that the public did not know her. By the time she spoke at the Republican convention, journalists had so lowered expectations that a run-of-the-mill speech would have been enough to win the evening.

As it was, her family appeared on stage without a goitre or a club foot between them, and Palin made a fighting speech that appealed over the heads of reporters to the public we claim to represent. ‘I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion,’ she said as she deftly detached journalists from their readers and viewers. ‘I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country.

Poor Gene. His promising little scandals are each debunked in turn.

Interesting piece by Cohen, as usual. My concerns are not about moose-gutting, or pregnant teenage daughters or even the various ‘gates’, as any politician who is suddenly the focus of attention will always have a few skeletons in his/her closet.

Maureen Dowd’s NYT piece about Palin and her go-go boots was indeed sneering and patronising.

In many ways Palin is an appealing candidate and a breath of fresh air, although her populist railing against the evils of Washington DC is ridiculous after two terms of GW Bush.

But let me return to the main point, here which is her lack of experience in security issues and international affairs. John McCain has already informed us about the border between Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you really think that Palin has the experience to govern the most powerful country in the world, if, for example, Israel attacks Iran, a new war erupts and McCain is in hospital? This is an entirely legitimate question and does not imply any liberal sneering.

The linked-to article is about Palin being petty an vindictive
towards people, who have had controverseys with her or
her husband in the past.
What has that got to do with that proverbial 3 o-clock phone call? Are you suggesting, she might start a war if Putin insulted her husband?

But let me return to the main point, here which is her lack of experience in security issues and international affairs.

How does that not apply to the Democratic nominee?

Sure, he’s the Chairman of the Senate NATO subcommittee, which one would think might want to have a look at Afghanistan policy. Yet he has yet to call one meeting?

(Oh! He lived in Indonesia when he was a kid. I forgot. Never mind.)

Maybe she is used to being woken up at 3am with all the babies she has had.

“But let me return to the main point, here which is her lack of experience in security issues and international affairs. John McCain has already informed us about the border between Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you really think that Palin has the experience to govern the most powerful country in the world, if, for example, Israel attacks Iran, a new war erupts and McCain is in hospital? This is an entirely legitimate question and does not imply any liberal sneering.”

O.K. Not liberal sneering. Just complete nonsense.

Your imagination seems to be somewhat limited. I can certainly imagine Sarah Palin taking the 3am phone call. And I can imagine her making a better job of it than Barack Obama– whose repeated revisions, evasions and changes of position on foreign policy issues don’t impress me. And certainly a whole lot better job than Biden who seems to have a long term track record of being apt to bluster, bully and generally give a good imitation of a bull in a china shop.

I don’t see anything in Obama’s experience to suggest he is better qualified or experienced than Palin to take nuclear decisions. I wouldn’t take his recent trans-Europe and Middle East photo op tour as evidence that he’s now really well prepared; he continues to utter ringing rhetorical platitudes and fine-sounding empty words on almost every current crisis issue. One of the reasons her speech was so successful was the way in which she pointed this out in a look-the-Emperor-has-no-clothes sort of way.

Sarah Palin’s track record in dealing with oil interests in Alaska suggests she’s both more decisive and more effective in dealing with powerful international interests used to getting their own way than Obama ever has or has given any indication he will be.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122057381593001741.html?mod=hps_us_mostpop_emailed

What your post does indicate is the confused floundering of the Obama claque who are dumbfounded at having been upstaged by Palin’s ability to communicate with huge numbers of Americans who they thought they had sewn up. Sarah Palin’s remarks about not being out to impress the left-liberal media establishment are clearly applicable to you.

I think in such matters character is (at least) every bit as important as experience (and again, I must ask, what does Obama’s experience in international relations add up to?).

Having good advisers is also important.

And, do you really doubt in the event that Palin DID become President, that she would not appoint a VP with a strong grounding in those areas that she is not so experienced or knowledgeable in? (I am reluctant to say “like Bush/Cheney”, but, erm, like Bush/Cheney.)

Although again I would reiterate that she has governed a state that does have an unusual exposure to the outside world not so much because of its location, but because of its relations with other actors across the region (to as far west as Iceland) in the Northern League, and also by the location on its territory of anti-missile defence units (intended to provide defence against any perceived missile threat from the DPRK).

So, Adam, I think you’re wrong - the quality that one needs to look at is not so much “experience” as it is “capability”.

And I think she has that in spades

Judy: I am neither dumbfounded nor confused nor floundering over Palin’s electric appeal. I wrote above: “In many ways Palin is an appealing candidate and a breath of fresh air”. I am simply asking what is her level of international experience and knowledge of the wider world outside Alaska and whether that qualifies her to be VP. All this guff about the ‘left-liberal’ media establishment is silly point scoring. At least Venichka has some good answers.

Is it really so that when the 3am come POTUS in nightwear start pressing nuke buttons and sending out B-52 and battle groups around the globe? Don’t assemble the National Security Council to get the best possible image of the situation?

Of course it is very troublesome if there would be a POTUS not owned by the military-industrial complex, Wall Street, corporate America or AIPAC, sort of TEOTWAWKI and a serious blow to “real” democracy.

And Adam, how do your objections not apply to Barack Obama as well?

“… shooting a moose without a permit…”

Not words you expect to hear in relation to a US presidential campaign.

Hi
Sorry to post this on this thread - don’t know where else to put it on this site.
Just wanted to point out the appearance of David Irvine - again - on the BBC this morning. Must have ruined many a peaceful Sunday morning for anyone who knows what a vile man this is. I expect you’ll get a few mails about it - I can hear him at this very minute and I feel nauseous. He has now been challenged about his holocaust denial, but is being let off very lightly.
I posted the note below to the Beeb - I’ll send their reply if it’s of any interest.
I’ve changed my real name here as the BNP are quite active in Scotland.
Sunday’s Child

Sir
I cannot emphasise my dismay at your current broadcast this morning on Radio 4 which included interviews with David Irvine. I have complained about this man’s appearance on the BBC before, as have many others, but the BBC seems to regard the man as a legitmate academic and someone who can be relied on for the truth. This man has attended numerous SS reunions, has spent time in prison for his fascist and racist views and is an ardent follower of the Nazi tradition. He is wanted in Germany by the police, and will be imprisoned if he turns up there. As a consequence of your lending respectability to his views the spread of antisemitism is rampant as is the growth of fascistic and racist views on the political right and astonishingly on the some parts of the European Left. This man has blood on his hands. How on earth can the BBC consider it valid to consult someone like this.
A breathtaking way to ruin a Sunday morning for UK democrats!
Sunday’s Child

Of course I meant the Northern Forum, not the Northern League…We are a long way from Padania

It is extraordinary how little provocation it takes for the some commenters on this site to let loose a torrent of invective against those that, however mildly, disagree with them. I have been reading HP for years and have always enjoyed the passionate and informed debates in the comment threads.

Sadly the comment threads of HP seem overrun with partisans (usually right-wingers) who seems to think comments like, “I can see Obama shouting “Michelle get that and if its William Ayers tell him I ain’t coming out for a bomb run tonite”, constitute either wit or a valuable contribution to the debate.

I feel much the same on this issue as Judy. My interest in this election is, as a non-American, primarily focused on foreign policy issues. I would have preferred a McCain/Lieberman ticket (or even a Rice/Lieberman ticket) but recoil from the repulsive, hyperbolic excoriation of the candidates by the extremists and guttersnipes of both sides. It lowers the level of debate and degrades those people who have, quite nobly I believe, put their hand up for public office.

“Torrent of invective”? In this thread?

Not really, but some of us have resorted to hyperbole.

I agree with Maven (first post).

“Your snooty lefty condescencion” - exactly.

Adam, tell us about Obama’s security and international experience. Or his experience in running a state. OK, a city. Ah, well, make that a primary school. Anything.

Oh, I missed the fact that this nonsense emanated from that great thinker Adam LeBor. All is now explained.

“This is an entirely legitimate question and does not imply any liberal sneering”

Correct. Those so-called ‘liberal’ hordes are not liberal at all. That label is a complete fiction.

“Sadly the comment threads of HP seem overrun with partisans (usually right-wingers)”

Nonsense. Most of the ranting comes from the fascist left. But thanks for revealing to us your fantasies.

Sunday’s Child: his appearance on Al Beeb is merely an extension of their usual demented agenda.

Judy, 11:27:
Bravo, every word!

Maven: Palin has minimal experience of international affairs or security related issues, so I find it quite terrifying that she might have the finger on the nuclear button if McCain is ill or incapacitated, as is quite possible, considering his age.

So you won’t be voting or supporting Obama then because he has less experience than Palin when it comes to executive power and decision-making.

Obama’s lack of experience kicks-in the day he might be elected. Palins experience only gets tested if McCain dies. McCain is in rude health.

People who make these arguments - including my answer - make the USA sound as if its a Rally Car with driver and navigator.

Don’t people realise there is a team of appointees that come with the ticket?

Given the fact that her party handlers don’t even trust her to answer questions from journalists, I’m prepared to believe,as they do, that she’s not too informed.

Do you really think that Palin has the experience to govern the most powerful country in the world, if, for example, Israel attacks Iran, a new war erupts and McCain is in hospital? This is an entirely legitimate question and does not imply any liberal sneering.

What if McCain is in hospital, one of Sarah’s kids is sick and she has period pains. What if Martians landed and Palin only spoke Venusian? What if Al Qaeda takes out the White House and Michelle Obama is the only one left?

I find this pathetic with all these people wishing McCain ill.

BTW - do we know what life threatening diseases Obama has? Unusually for a presidential candidate he refuses to release his medical records. Shall we start a rumour that Obama might have AIDS or a fata brain tumour? That is about how sick the Left nutters would get over dissing the Republicans.

Why doesn’t Obama release his medical records? Can’t be much wrong with someone so thin and healthy looking - or could there?

Don’t people realise there is a team of appointees that come with the ticket?

Of course they do. Plus, Obama has 300 foreign policy advisers on his campaign. They include Zbigniew Brzezinski. What could go wrong?

sundays child, you can lookup the result of the Irving trial with Lipstadt. The judge called Irving “a racist, antisemite Holocaust Denier”. That is who Al Beeb interviewed.

“Most of the ranting comes from the fascist left.”

This certainly doesn’t tally with my reading of this site. Apart from the occasional visit from far-left trolls, I don’t recall much ranting from the fascist left.

Obama has refused to release all kinds of documents that normally in the USA are released as a matter of course. I believe that he has refused to release his birth certificate.
Can’t be anything wrong with a man who is so cagey with his past (and present), can there?
I wouldn’t buy a used shopping trolley from this man.

Irving is one of the few people in this country who can be described publicly as all those things without fear of libel action, Maven: the judge said so.

A natural magnet for BBC lowlife, then.

Well, I do, Marcus. The amount of antisemitic propaganda from SWP types could make your hair curl. Or something.

“sundays child, you can lookup the result of the Irving trial with Lipstadt. The judge called Irving “a racist, antisemite Holocaust Denier”. That is who Al Beeb interviewed.”

Ms Lipstadt also has a blog - though it is infrequently updated:

http://lipstadt.blogspot.com/

There is also Richard J. Evans superb ‘Lying About Hitler’.

http://www.richardjevans.com/
http://www.amazon.com/Lying-About-Hitler-History-Holocaust/dp/0465021530

Nearly Oxfordian Obama has refused to release all kinds of documents that normally in the USA are released as a matter of course. I believe that he has refused to release his birth certificate.
Can’t be anything wrong with a man who is so cagey with his past (and present), can there?

His birth certificate is a recent re-print from Hawaii and some forensic experts say its a forgery and demonstrate why with detailed graphical analysis.

Meanwhile a Clinton supporter has a legal challenge to Obama being a US citizen based on the discovery of a birth certificate from Mombassa that would disqualify him (as his mother was only 18 and had to be 19).

We know that Obama did drugs at college including cocaine. Isn’t it feasible that Obama could have been treated for drug addiction or picked up AIDS or Hepatitis from needles? Is it possible?

His campaign refused to release records of what he did when he worked with William Ayers (the terrorist). We don’t exactly know what he did or achieved as a Community Organiser. Some people in this position would be organising protests or railing against Black or minority opression. Not that there is anything wrong with that but did he organise or encourage violence out of his radical association with Ayers?

We know why MSM won’t explore these issues because they want to make sure Obama is elected.

Adam doesn’t seem to have addressed the question of how Obama’s experience surpasses that of Palin. This is the most interesting aspect of all this, in some ways. Biden isn’t being discussed much. The D Presidential candidate is being compared with the R VP candidate. That’s humiliating for Barak.

Adam doesn’t seem to have addressed the question of how Obama’s experience surpasses that of Palin.

Be patient, Pardner. I’m sure he’ll be back any moment with the reply.

Well you see palin does have relevant International Experience its one of the current favourites of Putin’s new saber rattling called:

Territorial Claims in the Arctic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic

United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

Ilulissat Declaration by five Arctic Circumpolar nations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilulissat_Declaration

As Governor of Alaska she will have participated in the high level circumpolar intergovernmental forum which deals with the hot issues of the new global oil transport and security ‘timebomb’ that the Arctic may represent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Council

This council also includes permanent representation by the indigenous people of the area such as the Innuit Circumpolar Council

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_Circumpolar_Council

and the Aleut International Association.

Palin’s Husband is Yupik(by virtue of his grandmother) and as Alaska actually has an actual land and sea border with Russia so do some indigenous people’s ‘nations’ , the Aleuts and the Yupik exist across both sides of the US/Russia border.

Now PC types would call the Yupik Innuit but they don’t really like it at all, and actually prefer Eskimo.

Now this might make some liberals happier and the right unhappy, although stormfront types seem to think that as his eyes are blue its OK (proving that racialists can always adapt their inviolable race categories to meet pressing political and cultural needs).

Now as regards the question of her experience and especially foreign experience.

I would venture that her international experience sitting at the top of the cold world that may blow real hot very soon, is real and far greater and of a higher level of international political and business intrigue l than any other state Governors job would ever involve.

So there is a real record there and she wants to drill, drill, drill, then open up that Northwest Passage for the US just as soon as the melting gets good.

It looks like the ghastly David Irving was probably interviewed for a show called ‘The Reunion’, which in this episode is about The Hitler Diaries. If I recall correctly he correctly pointed them out as fakes.

Alternately there was also a show broadcast called ‘British Jews and The Dream Of Zion’, though - and call my naive - I refuse to believe the BBC would stoop so low as to interview him for that show.

Adam’s having lunch for now.

“They include Zbigniew Brzezinski. What could go wrong?”

Untrue.

Okay. Finish your waffles.

I think argument as to whether Obama or Palin has more experience is much like arguing over how many angels could dance on the top of a pin. It is simply impossible to objectively calculate and probably immaterial.

Peter Risdon’s post makes a key point.

Whilst the left are defenestrating that precious vase Cohen talks about, Palin is more popular then Obama, McCain, according to this

We don’t exactly know what he did or achieved as a Community Organiser.

Well, over the summer in Chicago some 125 people have been murdered.

That’s roughly twice the number of American soldiers killed in Iraq over the same period.

“Community organiser”?

If you say so, but just don’t let Obama loose in my community, OK?

Hardly immaterial, although no doubt Obama supporters would say so. A man who has not actually RUN anything (not ANYTHING, not a single organisation) has nil qualifications to run a country. Quite apart from his fundamental dishonesty, his association with racists etc. The man has nothing to recommend him: he wants to be president because he thinks he deserves it.

“I refuse to believe the BBC would stoop so low as to interview him for that show”

I have stopped refusing to believe that Al Beeb would stoop to anything long since.

I don’t agree with Adam Lebor’s premise, but it is a legitimate issue to raise unlike most of the stuff thrown at Palin in the last couple of weeks.

I don’t agree with Adam Lebor’s premise, but it is a legitimate issue to raise unlike most of the stuff thrown at Palin in the last couple of weeks.

it’s a perfectly legitimate issue. And comparisons of her experience to Obama’s bring about a perfectly embarassing silence.

The man has nothing to recommend him: he wants to be president because he thinks he deserves it.

Obama kites his career on his skin colour.

When all is said and done, that’s really the only “asset” he has.

And it’s the soft racism of low expectations…the central pillar of a white liberal’s world view… that has allowed him to progress this far without ever having accomplished anything.

Palin may be short on experience, but Obama hasn’t any at all!

Nick Cohen comments on how utterly counter-productive the MSM/Liberal Week of Hysteria regarding Palin was.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/07/uselections2008.republicans2008

Where’s your G-d now Gene? Huh? Huh?

An outraged community organizer stands up, speaks up, pushes back:

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/09/when-americas-c.html

Adam it seems, is rather begging the question.

One of the things that worries me about Obama, unlike both Mc Cain and Paslin, is that nothing in his record demonstrates the least bit of political courage.

Absolutely brilliant spoof on what a community organiser does (from iowahawk link above)

Specifically, America’s community organizers:

Gather voter registrations, win valuable prizes.

LOL!!!! I believe it! I believe it!

Maven, Iowahawk (Dave Burge) is a skillled parodist. I recommend a leisurely perusal of his site.

What Judy said at 11:27. Sarah Palin is most definitely connecting with the folks.

I don’t want to deify her like the Republicans have done with Reagan, but she does stir the spirit. I am concerned some of the electricity is relative to the field. I mean, so many of the Republican candidates have looked or sounded like they escaped from the mortuary (or ran one).

I want to wait and see how she does in the next two months. She is quick witted, sharp tongued, and a compelling person, but what stars guide her? I would like a Saddleback-like interview with her and Biden.

She has given the Republicans some precious momentum, but it is up to John McCain to seal the deal.

Anyway, here is a very good essayist on how Sarah Palin raised his spirits and John McCain sealed the deal for him: Bill Whittle , worth the read IMHO.

Unfortunately I can picture Palin taking that 3 a call, and making a decision.

Wether anybody would be alive to discuss the consequences of that decision in a few hours time is another matter.

GW

Bill Whittle , worth the read IMHO. Fixed.

David Axelrod, Obama’s campaign manager, was just asked if Obama believes that he (Obama) has more executive experience than Palin. Axelrod declined to anwer directly.

great point. All these folks aint really saying nothing about the issues, Obma is a little tiny bit, but it seems like Palin and McCain just mantra stealing when they need to talk about N. Korea rebuilding nukes like North Korea has fallen off the map

“so many of the Republican candidates have looked or sounded like they escaped from the mortuary (or ran one)”

And so many of the Democract candidates have looked or sounded like they escaped from a nursery school (or ran one); like Obama, for example.
Oops, sorry, forgot: he hasn’t actually run anything. Maybe when he is 96 he will have achieved something useful. Maybe run a charity shop.

Rather Pain than the utterly useless, platitude-machine called Obama, GW. He can’t even make a speech without someone holding his teleprompter.

Axelrod squirming … love it!

Maven, mesquito,

A little further down, Iowahawk’s Idiossey is the best IMO:

…
And though he be clever, Obamacles did not understand his task,
set before him by the Oracle; perhaps it was a riddle?
“Community organizer?” he wondered, “What the fuck is that?”
And yet he pushed from house to house, offering to organize the people,
But lo, the Southside people shunned him, slamming doors and mocking sad Obamacles.

“O people of Chicago, why do you shun me so?” he lamented.
“I have a bachelor’s degree and I am here to organize you.”
And then Obamacles heard from behind a voice of such fury and anger
that he was frozen in fear for the very first time.
It was the Jeremiad, the fire-breathing Monster of the Pulpit, who roared:

“You stupid ass foo, it because you white!”
…

Palin has more executive experience than McCain,Biden or Obama.Because none of them have held executive positions.

As I said earlier,the judgement of tthe Republican campaign is that she isn’t fit to answer questions.

Only just spotted this post. I can’t imagine any of them receiving a 3am call, but I assume these people are:

a. Always less stupid than people paint them.

b. Surrounded by highly intelligent people.

Remember after 911, people were surprised at the restraint show by the US in the immediate aftermath - and that was with Bush the warmonger!

Alaska National Guard like their Commander in Chief Palin

“Remember after 911, people were surprised at the restraint show by the US in the immediate aftermath - and that was with Bush the warmonger!”

Which ‘people’? Hysterical leftie Islington types?
I wasn’t.

The last Democratic president lacked the guts to take action to prevent the genocides in Rwanda and Srebrenica. All the evidence suggests that Obama shares Bill Clinton’s dithering, flip-flopping, strategy-less approach to foreign policy.

I have more confidence in McCain and Biden. But between Obama and Palin, I have more confidence in Palin’s readiness to take the 3am phone-call.

Marko.
She doesn’t have the confidence to tak a question from a journalist.

Not true, Marko. Obama would not have hesitated to indict Osama Bin Laden and fax his photo to Interpol.

Mesquito/Marko.
Which of Palins foreign policy poositions do you have any knowledge of?

They presumably track rather closely to McCain’s, tim. Do you think the Surge worked? Better than anyone could have possibly imagined?