Harry’s Place

Any comment on this

“Dear Herr Hitler, Love is the greatest thing in the world: so will you accept from me these (poems) that you may allow the young people of your nation to have them?” These gushing words from an ardent fan (she was lucky Unity Mitford did not scratch her eyes out) were written in August 1939, just a month before this country went to war with Nazi Germany, by Marie Stopes, the “woman of distinction” who will ornament our 50p stamps from October.

Dearie me, reactionary Ven is getting his knickers in a twist. Marie Stopes was NOT an ardent fan of Hitler. She had a misplaced faith in the power of luurve, that’s all.

David T,

I fear no priests, but the real hat tip should go to Stroppy’s blog, http://stroppyblog.blogspot.com/

Sorry, this is totally off-subject and apols for being dim: Why does David Miliband appear at the top of the home page? Not knowing why bugs me every time I visit.

What a stupid country.

Shuggie Otis said that not knowing why Milliband is on the mast head bothers him.

It just bothers me that Milliband is there at all.

Luca Volonte, a Christian Democrat, who said that “gratuitous insults must be punished”

What a wanker!

It is not a serious country.

It has been pointed out in Italy that Dante was pretty uncomplimentary about various Popes he’d known in his lifetime: Boniface VIII and Clement IV both consigned to the circle for simonists for instance. Then again Dante also consigned Mohammed to the lower regions of hell so it might be wisest all round to ban this sick filth.

It is not a serious country.

It’s serious enough for this comedienne if she gets sent down for 5 years - absolutely ridiculous. We need a US style 1st amendment law in Europe, guaranteeing the right to free speech - including Holocaust denial, Mohammed cartoons, gay Jesus plays etc.

It’s not The Church that’s demanding prosecution, but the Italian gov’t.

And to be honest, left-wing comedians are all the same, they’re a big yawn.

The objects of their ridicule are always the same, and you can see the same lame punchlines coming hours ahead of time.

And then there’s the shallowness and superficiality.

Dya think Sabrina would ever make a joke about ‘that’ religion that encourages the murder of homosexuals?

Is she unaware of what the dominant religious paradigm now is?

Poking fun at the Pope no longer ranks as speaking truth-to-power; it is, in fact, a worn out bore, like watching those old reruns of “I Love Lucy”.

Ya know, “genuflect, genuflect, let’s dooo the vaaatican RAAaaaag”!

It’s a level of humour just made to order for individuals who drool.

Wouldn’t have happened with the last guy… Germans see, no sense of humour.

Any thoughts on the actual story, Ven? Me, I think the joke was staggeringly unfunny and unlikely lost anything in translation.

Oh yeah that split right, on the one side is everybody, on the other is the victims father. Why don’t you move to the right if you respect it so much?

The fact Milliband bothers people is enough reason for him to be there.

Not back to the subject in hand, you have to admire the Catholic church. A man recently went home and found a priest in bed with his wife. The bishop said when the man complained:

“I have always respected the priest in question and I will continue to respect him. You cannot discount all the good a person has done in their life just because of one mistake.”

Which is admittedly better than “Consider yourself lucky it was our wife and not the kids!”.

Looks to me that teh gates are open. Every poisonous reactionary, every assault on free speech and free thought is now permissible. The Muslims were merely the shock-troops, they’re all getting in on the act now. As the social and ecolgical calamities intensify, things can only get worse. (signed Cassandra aka Sue R).

How do you castrate an Irish priest? Punch the altar boy on the jaw.

Italy is always in the vanguard of distortions to democracy!

so, this makes it an excellent lab for us to observe the latest tendencies. in 5 to 10 years, those tendencies start getting copied all around Europe.

this reminds me of a conversation I had 2 years ago about how the measures taken by Jose Luis Zapatero in Spain regarding the church, the historical memory from the civil war, same-sex marriage, etc, were being watched with astonishment in Italy.

such things were unthinkable in Italy… just remember the issue of the referendum about the law on medically assisted reproduction…

what a terrible situation to even consider prosecuting this comedian, it is blasphemy laws by another route.

The Pope is not immune from ridicule, nor should he be.

It doesn’t make much difference as to who has instigated the prosecution, they would not have done so without consulting the Vatican.

What next? will someone be stoned to death for insulting the Papacy?

Blasphemy laws and their allies are relics of a bygone era, and should be done away with, post-haste.

Of all the things that are wrong with contemporary Italy (and there are many: their despicable prime minister constantly evades justice, and his not terribly unreconstructed fascistic allies implement and promotes blatantly anti-minority policies - sometimes with violent consequences), this law doesn’t even register on my radar. (Maybe going back to the middle ages wouldn’t be such a bad thing, in any case)

One can walk on hot coals for approximately 15 seconds in all. The chanting and so forth are entirely optional.

Maybe going back to the middle ages wouldn’t be such a bad thing, in any case

Ah, but will you side with the Guelphs or the Ghibellines?
I say: bring back Frederick II.

Ven, now known as Mr Kurtz.

So the UVF were just astute socio-legal commentators after all?

What next? will someone be stoned to death for insulting the Papacy?

Modernity, you Catholophobe!

What I can’t understand about this is why people still think lampooning the pope is cutting edge, subversive humour.

“Pope Betty” “Nazi Pope” “Queer Pope”….it’s just such a worn out, predictable bore.

It’s not as though we’re living in 1951.

And I simply don’t understand the desire on the part of Italy’s leaders to prosecute someone who is virtually anonymous and most probably ( due to her pope jokes) a very mediocre ‘humourist’.

What’s the point? 90% of Italians don’t even go to church anymore.

What I can’t understand about this is why people still think lampooning the pope is cutting edge, subversive humour.

Well, if you’re going to end up in jail for it…

If Ratzinger has any sense at all, he will see this as an opportunity and make good use of it. If he’s clever he will publicly call for the repeal of this law, and intervene on behalf of the defendant.

I would be HUGELY impressed by the Pope were he to do so.

So does the pope has the status of an “inviolable person” in Italian Law? Are there any other supposed liberal democracies which have figures with a similar status?

Well, if you’re going to end up in jail for it…

Do you seriously think this commedian even knew about this law?

And Pope jokes thessedays are about as cutting edge as “The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”.

I would be HUGELY impressed by the Pope were he to do so.

I’m quite sure he will.

It just bothers me that Milliband is.

“It’s not as though we’re living in 1951″

Given that they want to throw her in prison, perhaps you mean 1551.

It just bothers me that Milliband is.

Other blogs without Milliband at the top are available…

Oh, he’s gone.

see this is the funny thing, JP would like (although I doubt he’ll admit it) a bit of extra protection and privilege for Catholicism, yet he’d be one of the first to put the boot into non-Christian religions

there’s nothing quite like that form of hypocrisy, when practised by rabid fundis like JP

So the UVF were just astute socio-legal commentators after all?
So they were!

see this is the funny thing, JP would like (although I doubt he’ll admit it) a bit of extra protection and privilege for Catholicism, yet he’d be one of the first to put the boot into non-Christian religions

Lies! Damned lies!

Suggesting that the Pope would sanction stoning someone to death is where the real bigotry lay!

Lampooing Catholics and Christians is the last acceptable form of chauvinism, and it’s a chauvinism that blinds us to the real religious danger.

And you should remember Modernity that Rome has what is perhaps Europe’s oldest Jewish community.

And this whole business isn’t because of The Church, it’s the result of some archaicITALIAN law being invoked by a bunch of self-serving politicians whom I’m sure never go to mass.

And this comedian was adressing a rally in Rome where she poked fun at a former topless model.

Was it a leftist rally, and if so did those in attendance hold similar views to those of G.G.?

Comedians once served the important social function of lampooing the more sinister and dictaorial peoples and ideas among us. Their punchlines, though humerous, were often designed to ring alarm bells.

In this day and age, and with religious fanatics imposing their unwanted way of life on all europeans, dya think Sabrina could once again take on that role?

Any comedian these days whose ‘cutting-edge’ material consists of nothing more than pope jokes are themselves a joke, in my opinion.

Not to mention boring.

One other thing, Ratzinger, the unwitting object of all this, has a notorious reputation for firing off some really dirty sizzlers.

Were Sebrina ever imprisoned, perhaps he could give her a tutorial.

Given that they want to throw her in prison, perhaps you mean 1551. *sigh*

But then she got religion, and after warning everyone that within 20 years Italian teachers would be vetted and chosen by the Vatican, she got to the punchline: “But then, within 20 years the Pope will be where he ought to be — in Hell, tormented by great big poofter devils, and very active ones, not passive ones.”

Tee-hee.

And on the thread above this one people are debating the introduction of Sharia law to the UK.

The serpent begins its squeeze.

Who will vet and chose the UK’s teachers in 20 or 30 years time?

If only it would be the Vatican, eh?

“It just bothers me that Milliband is.

Other blogs without Milliband at the top are available…”

Try re-reading. I made no mention of any blogs. I stated my distaste that this idiot is a member of the government.

Um, I’m no Pope-hugger, but may I point out that *at least* in Italy there are no legally binding Sharia tribunals (yet)? And that a British member of the Royal Academy of Science has suggested, less than a week ago, that creationism should be taught in schools because some people believe in it?

I mean, doesn’t look like Britain is that much better off.

The Vatican is a serious player in Italian politics.

If you cant ridicule a self inflated pompous organization that in 21 century still produce serious and somber conclusions on stuff like Limbo – “remains a possible theological opinion” – then we are in trouble, that the “learned” catholic scholar produced these things in the middle ages might be explainable but in the 21 century.

They did set their standard quite clear in the Rushdie affair, mumbling something about that violence was not so nice but more than enough high ranking potentates from the Abrahamitic sects did it very clear that the perpetrator was Rushdie and the muslim reaction was very understandable.

“that a British member of the Royal Academy of Science has suggested, less than a week ago, that creationism should be taught in schools because some people believe in it?”

Wasn’t it so that he meant that discussion about creationism shouldn’t be banned because there is more and more children from homes that is indoctrinated with creationism and if you cant discuss it you cant deconstruct the nonsense and open the children’s mind for scientific views.

Herr Hitler did get appreciating letters from many people.

Four days after (February 1939) his election by the College of Cardinals, His Holiness (Eugenic Pacelli, Pius XII) composed the following letter to Berlin:

To the Illustrious Herr Adolf Hitler, Fuhrer and Chancellor of the German Reich!
Here at the beginning of Our Pontificate We wish to assure you that We remain devoted to the spiritual welfare of the German people entrusted to your leadership…. During the many years We spent in Germany, We did all in Our power to establish harmonious relations between Church and State. Now that the responsibilities of Our pastoral function have increased Our opportunities, how much more ardently do We pray to reach that goal. May the prosperity of the German people and their progress in every domain come, with God’s help, to fruition!

And if he had survived I’m sure he have had a reservation in the Vatican rat line for Nazi criminals to be channeled to South America or the middle east.

“Looks to me that teh (sic) gates are open. Every poisonous reactionary, every assault on free speech and free thought is now permissible. The Muslims were merely the shock-troops, they’re all getting in on the act now. …(signed Cassandra aka Sue R).”

Correct.

And if he had survived I’m sure he have had a reservation in the Vatican rat line for Nazi criminals to be channeled to South America or the middle east.

Oh please, The Vatican saved many Jewish lives during WWII.

And the Nazis ( Hitler included) were virulently anti-Christian.

And as for rat lines and such, just who the hell was Werner Von Braun, not to mention many other scientists in NASA’s stable?

If you cant ridicule a self inflated pompous organization that in 21 century still produce serious and somber conclusions on stuff like Limbo – “remains a possible theological opinion” – then we are in trouble, that the “learned” catholic scholar produced these things in the middle ages might be explainable but in the 21 century.

And do you seriously think, Lasse, that Magdi Allam, kick-ass Arab scholar and journalist, or Tony Blair, your PM for 10 years, are complete idiots?

Some papal bulls aren’t bull at all, and, in fact, are actually quite enlightening to read.

And in many areas of the Third World the only recourse people have to even minimal health-care ( and basic education) is often provided by Catholic organisations.

And you slander and demonise The Church in much the same way The Church once slandered and demonised medieval heretics.

What a sinner you are!

“Looks to me that teh (sic) gates are open. Every poisonous reactionary, every assault on free speech and free thought is now permissible. The Muslims were merely the shock-troops, they’re all getting in on the act now. …(signed Cassandra aka Sue R).”

I,d have agreed to that 10 or 15 years ago, but it now seems to me that the probleme wasn’t muslim shock-troops at all, but rather the non-reaction of cowardly and cynical politicians attempting to cling to power.

If you do not nip attacks on free-speech in the bud, than those attacks, if successful, will inevitably spawn imitators.

Power always moves into a vacum.

“And you should remember Modernity that Rome has what is perhaps Europe’s oldest Jewish community.”

While Rome’s Jewish community is one of the oldest in Europe, I think the oldest is probably Athens.

While I appreciate it’s a nice opportunity for all the Papist-bashers to get their rants on page, a never-to-be-enforced-in-a-million-years sentence in Italy doesnt detract from the fact that in England, where power is with secularism, it is secularists who are creating the closed society. Their abolition of Christian adoption agencies (under the pretence of “abolishing homophobia”) and now their attempts to abolish Christian schools (under the equally laughable excuse that it’s to combat discrimination) are far more serious than a silly judge threatening an unfunny comedian in southern Europe. Religious folk in the UK dont ask for supremacy, the vast majority dont want any blasphemy laws, but they would like a pluralist society that doesnt have secularist atheism as the only religion, and acceptance that not everything, every school, hospital, charity or adoption agency in the country has to be controlled and sanctioned by the almighty state.

Some of the people attacking the Catholic religion… bash mainstream Christianity all you want, but something far worse will fill the vacuum you create.

well, if “Religious folk in the UK dont ask for supremacy, the vast majority dont want any blasphemy laws…” then when they start campaigning for the dis-establishment of organised religions from State funding, etc then they might be believed?

but until then?

”And do you seriously think, Lasse, that Magdi Allam, kick-ass Arab scholar and journalist, or Tony Blair, your PM for 10 years, are complete idiots?”

If they had been complete idiots they had been harmless, though one should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

The problem is not individual Catholics, Christians, Muslims and so on there is no doubt that there is plenty of nice people and who do much good in the name of their faith but I suspect that they hade been very nice people what ever faith or lack of faith they had.

BTW Tony B has not ever been my PM. Thought that was obvious as one mage to get along on mostly autodidact English and MsWord grammar/spell checker.

If we see on relative aid contribution and UN loyalty it’s remarkable how generosity seem to increase the more atheist and godless countries are.

“Religious folk in the UK dont ask for supremacy, the vast majority dont want any blasphemy law”

It’s not the waste majority of religious adherents Christians or Muslims etc that is the problems it’s the people in who lead and the undemocratic doctrines of absolute authority derived from imaginary supernatural beings that is. Luckily enough have very few of the religious really read and studied the blunt and harsh stuff those holy scriptures preach.

To be on the safe side one should never ever forget how merciful, tolerant and meek they where when the where in the position to make offers people couldn’t refuse.

I’m no Pope-hugger, but may I point out that *at least* in Italy there are no legally binding Sharia tribunals (yet)? And that a British member of the Royal Academy of Science has suggested, less than a week ago, that creationism should be taught in schools because some people believe in it?

The Police even arrest people for wearing T-shirts saying scientology is a cult. We are seriously fucked up when it comes to pussy footing around the sensibilities of people who believe in mumbo-jumbo.

“but I suspect that they hade been very nice people what ever faith or lack of faith they had.”

Well I don’t speak for all religious people, but I can say, that I am a “nicer” person as a result of very hard dedication to bettering my character in line with the teaching of my religion.

May times my selfish self interest has clashed with the duties of my faith, and the only reason I overcame them was because of what I believe is the duty derived from that faith.

Non religious people can be, and very often are very good people, and religious people are also good people, but not always despite their beliefs, but very often because of their beliefs.

Oh please, The Vatican saved many Jewish lives during WWII.

Elements of the Vatican certainly saved some (but then so did elements of the Nazi party such as Karl Plagge and Otto Schindler.

Other elements in the Vatican were working for the devil however:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hudal

The focus throughout this thread seems to be on the Pope, while the real subject at hand seems to me to be the Italian government, intent perhaps on getting the Pope’s good graces, but still acting far outside the realm of free society.

The Pope, no matter your feelings on the matter of the Catholic Church, seems to be more bystander than anything on this issue.

Neil D–

The police arrest people for wearing t-shirts that say Scientology is a cult??? Isn’t it, though?

Sometimes I am very glad to be American….

Non religious people can be, and very often are very good people, and religious people are also good people, but not always despite their beliefs, but very often because of their beliefs.
And religious people are all too often - presently especially thousands of Muslims - driven to do simply appalling informed by the tenets of their faith; you can’t say that about any non-religious person. There are no tenets of atheism - save for lack of god belief.

The usual theist repost, is to drag up Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, all undoubtedly atheists…… There is nothing about atheism that could have informed their atrocities; again, save for lack of god belief there are no tenets of atheism. The only argument that can be made, is that [name your brand] religion somehow provides some form of inoculation against nare-doing. History, the present behavior of theologically driven murders, comparative crime rates of less religious countries, together with incarceration rates for atheists would seem to provide sufficient debunking of that old chestnut for all but the willfully critically thinking impaired .

“And religious people are all too often - presently especially thousands of Muslims - driven to do simply appalling informed by the tenets of their faith; you can’t say that about any non-religious person. There are no tenets of atheism - save for lack of god belief.

The usual theist repost, is to drag up Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, all undoubtedly atheists…… There is nothing about atheism that could have informed their atrocities; again, save for lack of god belief there are no tenets of atheism. The only argument that can be made, is that [name your brand] religion somehow provides some form of inoculation against nare-doing. History, the present behavior of theologically driven murders, comparative crime rates of less religious countries, together with incarceration rates for atheists would seem to provide sufficient debunking of that old chestnut for all but the willfully critically thinking impaired .”

I don’t disagree with the notion that religious people have and do, in the name of their religions, commit appalling acts. Religion is a powerful ideology, idea call it what you will. Other powerful and influential ideas have also led to appalling behaviour, such as socialism, nationalism, communism etc etc.

And while atheism has no tenets (except for the refection of the Divine) it has led to atrocities. Yes, taking for example Stalin, and many Bolsheviks, they arrested, killed, sent to forced labour, many Rabbis and Priests, simply for teaching the existence of G-d, because they wanted an atheist society.

In my experience, the religious people around me, including I must add, Christians and Muslims, spend their lives serving their fellow man.

I’m not a Catholic, but I am pretty sure that the Pope has taken a vow of celibacy, so, unless you intend rape, you will have to find another way to annoy him.

No doubt you are alluring to a constant stream of young choir boys just out of reach of his grasping hands.

Doesn’t the European Convention on Human Rights have something to say about this ? If it doesn’t protect somebody from this kind of thing, then it ain’t a whole lot of use, is it ?

Red-Hand Commando

“The usual theist repost, is to drag up Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, all undoubtedly atheists…… There is nothing about atheism that could have informed their atrocities; again, save for lack of god belief there are no tenets of atheism.”

This is utterly false. There may be no tenets of atheism in general but in the form of atheism that drove Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot there were specific tenets. It was precisely their atheism - scientific atheism at that - that drove them to do what they did. There are no specific tenents in theism (except perhaps a belief in God or Gods) but that does not mean that some sects don’t have well developed tenets indeed. In the same way, Marxist-Leninism, a form of atheism, has Views on a lot of subjects. Which drive their believers to kill.

Red Hand Commando,

Shouldn’t you be out murdering innocent Catholics, or something?

I think I’ve seen this thread on South park.

Haha. It is priceless, init?

The police arrest people for wearing t-shirts that say Scientology is a cult?

This one was a placard, but it isn’t the only incident. One did involve a T-shirt I seem to remember.

Sometimes I am very glad to be American….

We delight in telling Americans they live in a theocracy, but it’s Europe were religion seems to be exerting more control on free speech.

Shouldn’t you be out murdering innocent Catholics, or something?

Ay prefur the turm ‘Peerpist’……an let mee tuL Yoos, thur ur nowe innocunT Peerpists, suw thur aaRnt!

This is utterly false. There may be no tenets of atheism in general
So its true then!

It was precisely their atheism - scientific atheism at that - that drove them to do what they did

They killed people because they were brutal autocrats, not because they lacked belief in any supernatural omniscient, omnipotent deity, micro managing the Cosmos.

As Sam Harris put it…

The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship. Auschwitz, the gulag and the killing fields were not examples of what happens when human beings reject religious dogma; they are examples of political, racial and nationalistic dogma run amok. There is no society in human history that ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.

Atheists lack god belief for all sorts of reasons, some rational, some less so. And some atheists even still have superstitions. All, on its own atheism tells you about someone, is that they lack god belief….bugger all else.

But what I can say is that there is bugger all correlation between atheism and criminality, if anything the relationship is inverse. The more secular a country, the less it’s religiosity the lower the crime rate tends to be, and atheism is inversely correlated with the incarceration rates. But then, it’s also positively correlated with intelligence.

Graham I think I’ve seen this thread on South park.
Yes, I remember that!

Was/is there any fascist regime in catholic countries that Vatican haven’t been on cozy and friendly terms with? In Europe the church stood side by side with the fascist regimes from Portugal to Hungary. Though one have to give some credit to Pius XI that didn’t like the Hitler and made his self unavailable when Hitler was on visit, believe he thought the nazi eugenics was a bit extreme. Never the less he thought Il Duce was “a man sent by providence.”

Italian fascist did get along well with the Vatican, the church did get sovereignty over education and family matters. The first diplomatic accord by the Nazi government 1933 took the form of a treaty with the Vatican. In return for unchallenged control of the education of Catholic children in Germany, the dropping of Nazi propaganda against the abuses inflicted in Catholic schools and orphanages, and the concession of other privileges to the church.

The catholic church has stalked the corridors of absolute power since Constantine created the Christian doctrine for political purposes. One should in no way underestimate these power brokers that have succeeded to stay on top of things for 1600 years, they have the patience and the long perspective. They do understand the extreme importance of getting there hands on children at an early age – faith schools. The liberals and other dimwits is merely toddlers in this game, don’t they understand the long term consequences of faith schools. In just a couple of generations there will be large parts of society that is impregnated with the authoritarian religious stuff.

The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions.

I love this. A religious mass-murderer is, apparently, a product of his religion. And when the mass-murderer is an atheist with a monomaniacal attachment to a political credo, it’s still religion’s fault.

All bases covered.

The more secular a country, the less it’s religiosity the lower the crime rate tends to be, and atheism is inversely correlated with the incarceration rates. But then, it’s also positively correlated with intelligence.

Nah, I won’t bother. I think you’ve been ingesting too many of those pills you’re supposed to be pushing, Red. Billy wouldn’t be happy, you knows.

Although of course Billy wouldn’t have given a shit after he went all LVF on yer asses.

I love this. A religious mass-murderer is, apparently, a product of his religion. And when the mass-murderer is an atheist with a monomaniacal attachment to a political credo, it’s still religion’s fault.

Thing is, without the example of the world’s religions killing and subjugating for millenia where would the likes of Hitler and Stalin got their inspiration for “political religions” in the first place?

The catholic church has stalked the corridors of absolute power since Constantine created the Christian doctrine for political purposes. One should in no way underestimate these power brokers that have succeeded to stay on top of things for 1600 years, they have the patience and the long perspective. They do understand the extreme importance of getting there hands on children at an early age – faith schools.

That’s a very misleading oversimplification. The Church was the ONLY political entity around for centuries after the Roman empire. The only ‘political’ structures in all of western Europe, Scandanavia included, were Catholic.

Ceasar, you see, flew the coop.

No one could find him!

And yes, The church DOES think in terms of centuries, and that ability is an invaluable asset when providing continuity and historical coherence for a culture and a civilisation.

To catholic schools ‘indoctrinate’ children? Yes! And this because they’re..duh… Catholic.

However, gender equality is practiced…children see that both men AND women are represented in the various Church orders.

Boys and girls recieve equal treatment and are given equal access to all educational resources. What’s more both sexes study the exact same curriculum, apart from gym class, and both thus are equally prepared to take on the wolrd upon graduation.

Music, dance, art, theatre as well as the ‘hard’ subjects of math and science are taught with an eye to churning out the best-rounded individuals possible.

I’m very grateful for having been educated in such schools. The snooty,decietful little author of Angela’s Ashes can just fuckin’ bite me!

The probleme with most Harry’s Place comments about Catholicism is that they come from people raised in Irish Catholicism ( I’m half Irish), and so as the years go by the horror stories, the “Blarney”, just gasbags, with each successive belt of whiskey, to jupiterian dimensions!

None of this is really helping me to choose which hotel in Florence to stay in next year for our 10th anniversary.