Harry’s Place

I can’t wait for this election to be over.

This is getting really boring.

Lets see if Timmy can work in something about rape kits and libraries.

Snore…

Some hostile Latin American leaders are not as bad as, err, Bush.

compared the federal government’s interventions with the actions of Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez — and not favorably. “The only difference between what the Fed did and what Hugo Chavez is doing in Venezuela is Chavez doesn’t put taxpayer dollars at risk when he takes over companies — he just takes them,”

according to err,

Republican Sen. Jim Bunning of Kentucky.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13555.html

Perhaps he was confusing him with Zoro, or Emiliano Zapata?

It’s an easy mistake to make if you lived through those times.

Stu,

I’ve not mentioned libraries.
Just Rape kits, and if your so disinterested by that, why did you bother to lie about Illinois still charging for them?

stick to repeating your irony joke.

He sounds utterly knackered. I think her misheard ‘Zapatero’ as ‘Zapatista’ (that’s why he referenced Mexico straight after) and then it just got worse.

Mark T - “I can’t wait for this election to be over.

This is getting really boring.”

Agreed. This election should count for 2.

“José Luis Zapatero is prime minister of Spain”

Not really picking that up myself. The interviewer is talking rather fast anyway so in McCain’s defence it’s understandable if he did get confused.

Now the Iran training Al-Qaeda faux pas was class.

Silly billy John, that’s next year’s script ;)

Benning is right about one thing, we don’t put tax dollars at risk, we pay with oil money. Still what an idiot.

To be fair, the interviewer does refer to Zapetr as Persident of that well known Kingdom of Spain, maybe he was thrown by the title…

Timmy,

You are such a tedious little obsessive. It is entertaining watching you scurry about making shit up. At least you apologise for it when caught, so I guess you are not totally worthless.

I can see Russia from my house.

doesn’t McCain have some house in Florida where he almost can see Spain.

From one perspective one can understand that the old POW still tormented by old war wounds did get things confused, they did talk about Latin America for a while until she moved the focus to Europe. But he seems to be very unwilling to admit that he didn’t have a clue what the present subject was, just wonder how the old POWs awareness will be at that 3AM call.

“I can see Russia from my house.”

I fuuukin love that one.

Speaking of which. There’s not a lot of love of this blog of late.

Was there ever?

Oh dear…..

He also has failed to comprehend the differences between shi’a and sunni Islam. Palin’s evident ignorance of the Bush Doctrine really sent a chill down my spine. I reckon the polls may start to edge back to Obama.

Hannity sets up an easy question up for Palin but then she she deflects attention away from Obama. Bizarre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGxAy1mEvPI&eurl=http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/17/palin-blames-davis/

Its strange because donations are Obama’s weak spot and lobbyists are McCain’s.

As an Obama supporter let me say that I find this totally uninteresting, a non-event.

Missed opportunity - “Zapatewho”

I am watching alot of the Prez Race - Obama is impressive. Biden worldly. Palin - oh dear. Serial lies about bridges and earmarks. Knows nada about much of anything. McCain is starting to resemble Reagan circa 1987 - when the senior moments became excessive.

“the interviewer does refer to Zapetr as Persident of that well known Kingdom of Spain”

I believe that the prime minister of Spain’s technical title is president of the government or president of the cabinet, so whilst he is a prime minister his title is president.

I never thought Bush’s socalled big gaffe about not know knowing General Pervez Musharraf’s name in 2000 was a big deal either.

A dump like Spain is hardly a big player on the world stage these days.

in all fairness, First Dude (Mr. Palin) is the real liability as a recent interview showed

“I am watching alot of the Prez Race … Knows nada about much of anything.” Do you mean “Nader knows much about everything”? In which case, I concur.

McCains team is claiming that he knew exactly who Zapatero is, and that he intentionally grouped him with Chavez et al.

McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Sheunemann said McCain’s answer was intentional.

“The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain’s willingness to meet Zapatero (and id’d him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred). Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview,” he said in an e-mail.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/18/mccain_slights_spanish_prime_m.html#more

He should team up with Nick “30 quid a week” Clegg.

so bloody what? Spain’s hasnt been a geo-political power since the 17th century. do you want to have an autistic in the white house who can name every single head of state and capitals in the world? the man spent five years in Nam with a watch up his ass, for God’s sake, that’s enough for me.

Rodriguez Zapatero is president of the government and that is his official title. This is mistranslated into English as prime minister, but the interviewer used his correct title - that may account for some of the confusion.

His name is Rodriguez Zapatero, so McCain may have misheard and thought the reference was to Mexican Zapatistas. As Benjamin says, he sounded very tired.

Spain has the 8th biggest economy in the world and was one of the few countries to provide troops for Iraq. There are a fair few Spanish speakers in the US too, and Spain has some cultural influence there. John McCain (and some posters here) should have a bit more respect.

John McCain forgot who Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the politician who gave Spain its first majority female Cabinet? SEXIST!

I loved it when Chavez kept interrupting Zapatero at that conference and the Spanish King told him to shut it.

“I never thought Bush’s socalled big gaffe about not know knowing General Pervez Musharraf’s name in 2000 was a big deal either.”

Yeah not a cause for a concern at all considering what a stand -up job he did afterwards. Oh wait…

“A dump like Spain is hardly a big player on the world stage these days.”
Even if one chooses to take their foreign policy cues from Jeremy Clarkson, it’s surely a matter for concern that a prospective US President doesn’t appear to know where (or indeed what) Spain is.

After all that, he still doesn’t know who the Prime Minister of Spain is.

so bloody what? Spain’s hasnt been a geo-political power since the 17th century.

Apart from all those relations with Germany and Italy 70 years ago. And Latin American and Far East possessions which lasted to the end of the 19th Century.

(Stu, lamentable.)

I don’t think such mistake discredits mccain…

it is a fact that there are lots of ‘latin’ countries and also european countries and it’s not easy to know by heart their leaders’ names… for that he will have his staff if he becomes president.

it would be bad if he was playing “who wants to be a millionaire” or a similar TV quiz show.

It all seems very clumsy to me.
Obama has just launched ads aimed at the Latino community in the west and Florida.
The McCain camp are claiming (with some justification, I think) that they’re unfair.
Just as McCains team are trying to respond in the spanish language press, he says this.
So what can they say? Its a gaffe on his major strength, foreign policy, its another Shia/Sunni/Senior moment? Of course they can’t.
Whatever the truth is they’re left with one line to take, that its a continuation of the Bush policy of ignoring the Spanish Government.
Thus it becomes a story in the press and supports Obamas attack ads, or at least wekens the attack on them.

Neil W wrote

I am watching alot of the Prez Race - Obama is impressive. Biden worldly. Palin - oh dear. Serial lies about bridges and earmarks. Knows nada about much of anything. McCain is starting to resemble Reagan circa 1987 - when the senior moments became excessive.

Palins favourable ratings have fallen 10-15% in the last week.Since her first interview.A similar fall that Jade Goody suffered when the camera caught her.
And if McCain looks old thats going to gets worse.

This is Republican Senator Chuck Hagel

In an interview with the Omaha World-Herald, Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) suggested that Palin doesn’t have the foreign-policy experience to be president. “‘She doesn’t have any foreign policy credentials,’ Hagel said in an interview. ‘You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don’t know what you can say. You can’t say anything.’”

Check out this other Hagel line: “‘I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, “I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia,”‘ he said. ‘That kind of thing is insulting to the American people.’”

And this one: “‘I think it’s a stretch to, in any way, to say that she’s got the experience to be president of the United States,’ Hagel said.”

Gene, with respect, there’s some things with far more clout and consequence you can use to bash McCain.

Here he states that Al-Qaeda are being trained, in IRAN and is immediately corrected by his aides. What a mind bending thing to get wrong.

Jumping on silly mistakes, as appears to be the case here, may well back fire.

Here is Obama claiming he’s visited 57 states.

Gene’s mania is catching.

Reporting,
Shaun Boyd DENVER (CBS4) ― Metro State College is investigating a professor who asked students to write an essay critical of Republican vice presidential candidate Gov. Sarah Palin. One student said the instructor singled out Republican students in the class and allowed others to ridicule them.

“I was shocked, I was holy cow, this is just an open door for him to discuss politics with us,” said Jana Barber, a student in the class.

Barber shared the first class assignment with CBS4. Instructor Andrew Hallam asked students to write an essay to contradict what he called the ‘fairy tale image of Palin’ presented at the Republican National Convention.

“What the faculty’s responsibility is to provide opportunity for critical thinking and civic engagement so bringing something of relevancy into the classroom was the faculty’s goal,” said Cathy Lucas, spokeswoman for Metro State. “Should he have broadened it and included all the political figures, yes.”

in all fairness, First Dude (Mr. Palin) is the real liability as a recent interview showed

sigh*

So what did he say? That he eschews furs in favour of a modest cloth coat?

Mr Palin ISN’T running for office, Modernity. He’s the spouse/dude of the contender.

John.
The dude has been subpoenad in the troopergate enquiry, had dozens of emails copied to him that Palin is refusing to release under Executive Privilege, and claimed expenses for various “fact finding trips” for the Governors Office.

So Modernity may not be completely wrong.

In Elko, Obama tried to anticipate his critics and called on the crowd of about 1,500 to sharpen their elbows, too.

“I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,” he said.

You can take the agitator off the strreet, but you can’t take the street out of the agitator.

“Mr Palin ISN’T running for office, Modernity.”

Can you confirm that you’ve never once used Mrs Obama’s comments about her pride, or lack of, in America against her husband? I’d hate to think you’re a hypocrite.

Recent national polling from realclearpolitics.com :

Gallup Tracking 09/15 - 09/17 2815 RV 44 48 Obama +4

Rasmussen Tracking 09/15 - 09/17 3000 LV 48 48 Tie

CBS News/NY Times 09/12 - 09/16 LV 44 49 Obama +5

Quinnipiac 09/11 - 09/16 987 LV 45 49 Obama +4

Battleground Tracking* 09/10 - 09/17 800 LV 47 45 McCain +2

Hotline/FD Tracking 09/14 - 09/16 909 RV 42 45 Obama +3

Reuters/Zogby 09/11 - 09/13 1008 LV 45 47 Obama +2

Newsweek 09/10 - 09/11 1038 RV 46 46 Tie

RV/LV = Registered Voters / Likely Voters

Even if McCain goes completely but completely senile prior to the election there are at least 42million fundimentalist nuts who will eagerly vote for him. Heaven help us.

Interesting electoral maps from Princeton Univ. showing states inflated or deflated according to electoral college strength:

http://election.princeton.edu/map - Obama 219-183

Giving Obama a 2% boost - Obama 273-144
http://election.princeton.edu/map/?dem

Giving McCain a 2% boost - McCain 220-191
http://election.princeton.edu/map/?rep

MB. Those links don’t work for me, this one does though.

http://election.princeton.edu/electoral-college-map/

It seems from the polls that the Republican convention bounce has gone, and the polls are back to before the conventions with Obama about 2-3% in the lead.

The strange thing,and the one thats a bit difficult to decipher at the moment is that, the Palin selection, which last week, the Republicans were claiming as a gamechanger, could now be hurting them.
Palins ratings have fallen so quickly that she’s now the least popular of all four candidates.

Palin’s average favorability score is now a +7 — about 10 points behind Joe Biden’s numbers. Perhaps more importantly, these numbers are 10-15 points behind where Palin’s numbers were just a week or so ago. If voters come in not knowing very much about a candidate — and the more they see of the candidate, the less they like of the candidate — this is a major concern.

VP selections don’t decide elections, but its perfectly possible given McCains age and uncertainty on economic issues, that if the public start to either feel insulted by, or laugh at the selction McCain made, he’ll carry the can.

imagine President Palin?

So McCain was tired. Zapatero/Zapatista? Anyone’s mistake. He’s an old guy. Did you know he was a POW? Cut him some slack, you guys are all being mean.

And Palin. mmm.

It’s not like this show is for real.

tim @ 7:58 pm

The links aren’t broken. Work fine here. Across the pond may be relying on different servers. Thanks for posting the alternative.

As for the polls, I like these better than last weeks. I remain cautiously optimistic. Sounds like McCain is going into decompensation mode. Palin may succeed in blocking further Troopergate investigation.

Troopergate further highlights the cynicism of the Repubs. They knew this was brewing when they picked her. No worries. Quash the investigation.

“so bloody what? Spain’s hasnt been a geo-political power since the 17th century.”

“doesn’t McCain have some house in Florida where he almost can see Spain”

if he realy does have a house in florida that would make hi gaffe even more bizarre given that the state is littered with forts and monuments to the spanish american war of 1898

I’ve seen several press conferences (well, not recently!) with McCain, none flattering. Perhaps these are the reasons: 1) hearing loss. McCain won’t wear a hearing aid because it will make him look old; 2) tired. Non-stop campaigning is not easy let alone for an old man 3) perhaps some impairment has begun.

I’m sure you’re right about Troopergate.
Although I suspect that the suspicion that Palin has something to hide will just be enhanced.

There does seem to be a surreal quality to the Republican campaign this week. For instance.

Earlier at the town hall meeting, a woman rose to speak and said was a Democrat who previously supported Hillary Clinton but now backed the Republican ticket.

McCain then interjected, “Could I mention she was a point guard on a state championship basketball team.”

Is John McCain writing Tina Fey’s punchlines for her?

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/17/politics/fromtheroad/entry4456592.shtml

The Dow traded in a 600 point range today ending up 410. All on a rumor the Feds will take on the housing and financial debt.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080918/markets_stocks.html?.v=23

I would find it more humiliating if he admitted that the heard zapatistas and that he believed they had a president.

Ladies and Gentlemen, the second axis of evil…Spain, Subcommandante Marcos and the estate of Frank Zappa

If McCain doesn’t get a nap soon, Dweezil Zappa will join the Axis of Evil.

First you saw Tim Verses Galloway….and now we bring you the sequel…..

Tim Verses McCain.….OUT NOW!

Sorry, Tim. ;)

No Mike,it was a good spot.
I’m up in the middle of the night with a teething two year old,watching loads of US TV and I short sold McCain at the top of the Palin bounce.
When those molars come through I’ll sleep again.

PS.
Where are all those Republican Palin fans from a week ago?

Sarah Franco probably has the best take on the matter. When I was a senior in H.S. in 1962 only an inverterent news junkie like myself among my contemporaries not only knew the names of the then three leaders of a divided Laos–Savanna Vann, Savanna Phouma, and Savanna Vong–but which one was the neutralist (Phouma), which one the pro-Communist (Vong)and which one pro-Western(Vann), despite Laos dominating the news in those days.

One reason McCain might have remembered at least something about Spain - 11 March 2004. The Madrid train bomb killed 191 people and wounded 1,755.

Tim

Which U.S. networks do you get beside CNN Int’l ?

I’m up in the middle of the night with a teething two year old,watching loads of US TV

Similar story here, though the teething two year old is not human.

Video clips from CBS ABC and MSNC.
Live from Fox News.

Fox News is generally a snarly bunch. Attractive female anchors.

Of course the teether is human.
If you put it outside to sleep you’ll be sentenced.
Thats human.

If you’ve got Sky you can watch - if you were so inclined - the big three evening news programmes, Fox news, and a few shows from American CNN on CNN international.

NBC Nightly News on CNBC at 1130pm, CBS evening news on Sky news at 12:30am, and ABC news at 01:30 on the BBC news channel.

Fox News is generally a snarly bunch. Attractive female anchors.

The damage for Palin started with Fox putting the “I can see Russia from my house” on a tape loop.

FFS Mike, I sleep between and three.
3-4 pacifying
Its the deadspot betwee 4 and 7 when I get my news

Do you ever catch Anderson Cooper on CNN at 3am, and the painfully reasonable comments from David Gergen?

It’s a must.

virgil xenophon: Sarah Franco probably has the best take on the matter. When I was a senior in H.S. in 1962 only an inverterent news junkie like myself among my contemporaries not only knew the names of the then three leaders of a divided Laos–Savanna Vann, Savanna Phouma, and Savanna Vong–but which one was the neutralist (Phouma), which one the pro-Communist (Vong)and which one pro-Western(Vann), despite Laos dominating the news in those days.

Except McCain has been banging on about his foreign policy and national security expertise all year - and anyone who does that should be tested on a regular basis. I’m not suggesting that he has to be some kind of pub-quiz savant who can name all the UK High Commissioners and Presidents of the republics of the Russian republics, but a soi disant foreign policy ‘expert’ should at least be able to name the heads of state and government of, say, the major NATO or EU countries.

However, I’m minded to give him the benefit of the doubt - probably for one of the reasons cited by Seymour Paine (above), namely election tiredness.

Mike

that’s 10:00 pm my time. I’m usually out for liquid refreshment at that hour. Not a big fan of Cooper.

In my young experience, Spain has had a government that is vaguely anti-U.S. or one then it ardently anti-U.S. In the scheme of things, it hardly matters which clique happens to be in power.

While this is not as bad as not knowing the President of Mexico, as I believe our fortuantely lame duck President did not know in the 2000 Election, this is still a strike against McCain because
1) as pointed out by Nick, McCain has been going on and on about how important foreign policy experience is and 2), this is not going to be appreciated by million of Hispanic-Americans voters.

“2), this is not going to be appreciated by million of Hispanic-Americans voters.”

As a resident of deep South Texas for thirty years and a minority gringo just about every where I go, I assure you that most Mexican-Americans could not give a rat’s ass about Spain.

Maybe mesquito, we shall see.

Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer are really annoying. Probably because CNN clearly think Cooper is their answer to James Bond and Wolf Blitzer is so establishment it hurts, and he keeps parroting that silly catchphrase about CNN having the best political team on television. Perhaps he really means the best political team on US cable TV, which is not saying very much.

U.S. Latinos may not give a rat’s ass about Spain. Some may give a crap that McCain puts Zapatero in a Latin American context.

Rachel Maddow is a smart young commentator who has just been given her own one hour show at 9:00 pm EDT on MSNBC cable.

mesquito: What part of South Texas? My Father left Eastern Ill. Univ. on sabattical to be interim head tennis coach for a year in 67-68 at Pan-American in Edinburg. Spent some time around there and in the McAllen-Brownsville corridor. Plus I spent some time in Victoria way back in 1956 as a child, so have some feel for the area, at least. (Does a drunken spring break trip to Monterrey, Mex. in 66 count?) Oh, and who can forget the time I spent in USAF pilot training in that playground of the idle rich, Del Rio, Tex, in 66-67? What a modern example of advanced civilization Ciudad Acuna was!

Probably because CNN clearly think Cooper is their answer to James Bond

Which is why they don’t like the fact Cooper is gay to get out. America is not ready for an openly gay national news anchor.

I can tell you’re more a Hannity and Colmes fan, Benji. Hell we all are if we’re honest about it.

Maddow is gay as well and it’s Cooper after Maddow but on different networks.

If you can’t get Maddow live, MSNBC puts up clips and transcripts here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908

I can tell you’re more a Hannity and Colmes fan, Benji.

No, I used to watch it for laughs. The presentation and the way it treats stories is absurd. It’s also funny when Colmes just gives up trying to chip away at Hannity’s impenetrable wall of right wing ideology and tries to humour him.

I don’t watch it any more because the subscription ran out and I’m not renewing it. I put on Al Jazeera English instead, which has an international focus and at least attempts to do proper journalism. So the main news channels I now have are BBC World News, Al Jaz and CNN, with Sky (UK news), plus the financial stuff. So, the (unintentional) humour of Fox is now no more.

I’ll check out Maddow later.

Yeah, Maddow is good. Makes a change from shouty middle aged blokes.

However, I had to sit through an advert for a genital herpes medication first, which threw me a bit.

The advert wasn’t for herpes Benjamin, it was for a medicine.

Yes, I know. :-) That’s why I said genital herpes medication.

In England, if you got such an ailment, the tradition is to suffer in silence for three months, then have an embarrassed word with your doctor, before furtively acquiring the medication under the cover of darkness. That’s the proper way of doing things.

Things are bit different in the USA it seems.

As a resident of deep South Texas for thirty years and a minority gringo just about every where I go, I assure you that most Mexican-Americans could not give a rat’s ass about Spain.

And if I may chime in from across the Gulf, neither do Puerto Ricans nor Cuban-Americans. :D

just teasing.
My only experience of such a clinic consisted of blokes hidind beheind newspapers until they were called into a room.
I haven’t been since newspapers were reduced in size.

Boogski.
I don’t think whether they’re interested in Spain.
The story all over the Spainsh language press is, did he have a senior monment or is he Bush 3.
That can’t be good for him.
Particularly as Obama is already doing 10-15 points better amongst Latinos than Kerry did.

Looks like we have another defector:

McCain Wins Endorsement of Democrat

As Barack Obama and John McCain battle for the Hispanic vote, a leading Latino backer of Hillary Clinton is crossing party lines to support the Republican presidential nominee.

In an interview Thursday, Miguel D. Lausell, a Puerto Rican businessman and longtime Democratic activist and fund-raiser, came out for Sen. McCain.

Oopsie!

Zapatero is a vile human being, as is his foreign minister Moratinos.

Most notoriously, in 2006 during a dinner with other politicians, Zapatero and wife launched what Vidal Quadras, member of the European Parliament, described on the radio as “a tirade of anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism”.

Zapatero was explaining his lack of surprise about the Holocaust: according to the people present, Zapatero claimed to understand the Nazis.

Zapatero also vilified Israel for responding militarily to Hizbollah provocations, and tried to stop the anti-Jewish Al Manar Hizbollah TV from being closed down in Spain.

When Spanish Jews protested, Moratinos insultingly and threateningly told them not to dare to criticize the Spanish Government.

Perhaps John McCain remembers these events. Clearly many people at HP do not.

Maddow does radio on Air America at 6:00 pm EDT at:

http://airamerica.com/listen

live feed

Ben -

I have no good feelings for Zapo but you haven’t convinced me that McCain did not confuse him with a Latin American dictator.

Gene -

Why the hell should a guy concentrating on his election campaign bother t memorise the prime ministers of all B & C list countries?

How the hell does this affect his foreign policy???

The name “Zapatero” could be equally remembered or forgotten by a free-trade, bullet-headed war hawk or a protectionist, panty-waisted peace freak. It has as much relevance as his choice of tie.

On the same basis Obama isn’t fit to be President because he didn’t know how many States were in the Union. “Er 47, 48?”

just wonder how the old POWs awareness will be at that 3AM call.

“Michelle can you get that and if its William Ayers tell him I ain’t goin’ out for a recce with him tonite I got indigestion from too much of the Colonel’s delights. “

Boogskie.
Why do you think McCain is polling far worse among Latinos than Bush did?

Uptight -
The Socialist Workers Party of Spain (PSOE) government has committed more troops to Afghanistan, as well as a contingent of civil guards and police experts to Haiti. The measure was approved in the Spanish Congress on July 6.

Can we stop all the waste of space running commentary on what McCain or Palin did/said next. It can easily be countered with 100’s of Obama/Biden gaffes and it its a neutral sum game. In fact I reckon that its the Dems who end up with the bashing on these threads. I listen to USA radio and I know that Obama is seen by more people as a vacuous teleprompter reader.

Boogskie.
Why do you think McCain is polling far worse among Latinos than Bush did?

I’d guess part of it is fallout from the housing/construction slowdown. The republican candidate is going to catch heat simply because a republican is President during a slowdown. Construction is what Hispanics do in my area, and they’re fucking good at it, too. Better than me (and I used to work construction).

Don’t think I’m not sympathetic. I’m on four 9 hour days myself. 1/3 of my co-workers have been made redundant. It’s ugly. One short year ago we were sitting pretty. All gone.

This just in:

Research by UCLA political scientists into the “facial competence” of candidates puts the Republican VP hopeful in the top 5%.
Their paper (http://renos.bol.ucla.edu/AtkinsonEnosHill.pdf ) shows that facial competence explains a significant portion of the vote — about 4% of independent voters in a congressional election.

An interesting list of Palin rumours debunked. You might want to have a look at no.72 Tim:

http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/

When Republicans like Hagel starting taking shots at Palin’s lack of experience and McCain is making blunders like this, it’s time to worry. It still defies belief that people think McCain has the right temperament, knowledge and persona to be an effective President abroad.

http://lettersfromatory.wordpress.com

Paul.
You’ll find all of those points dealt with in the relevant thread.

Mr Harris,

That does not sound good, but Zapatero has liberalised Spain to an extent, including legalising gay marriage and adoption by same - he took on the Roman Catholic church. I have not heard of the allegations you posit, but they certainly don’t seem to be reflected in Spanish government policy.

by same sex couples

Socialist Workers Party of Spain government

Bet the Socialist Workers Party of the UK are jealous.

“”"”"Zapatero is a vile human being, as is his foreign minister Moratinos.”"”"”

I really don’t apreciate Moratinos, and I strongly deplore Spain’s attitude regarding Kosova, as well as some other positions in foreign policy

but

to call Zapatero a vile human being is a gross injustice.

Zapatero is a decent person.

More than that, he is a decent politician, one of the few who keeps his commitments and respects his promises.

I think his idea of ‘alliance of civilizations’ is naive and it is flawed because of the fact that it intends to mirror the flawed thesis of ‘clash of civilizations’,

I don’t understand how come Spain is afraid of the so-called Kosovo precedent,

but, once again,

this is the man that introduced same-sex marriage, fought the excessive political influence by the catholic church, removed all statues of the fascist tyrant francisco franco, forbade the fascist pilgrimages to the infamous valle de los caidos, which lost its status of national monument, rescued the issue of historic memory out of the taboo status that it had, approved laws for protection of women victims of violence, gave Spanish nationality to all the victims of the madrid train bombings and their families, etc, etc, etc.

Spain is a deeply divided country where you will find the most progressive and open minded people and the most reactionary.

Zapatero is a very progressive person worth supporting, who in many ways has been changing Spain for the best.

…not to mention a government with a majority of women, including a pregnant woman as defense minister.

in a country like Spain, with appalling levels of domestic violence, this is revolutionary.

I don’t think you can imagine how important that is for us women who are constantly discriminated on access to jobs because of the ‘danger’ that our ‘family duties’ may interfere with our productivity.

Yes, I second what Sarah said.

Why the hell should a guy concentrating on his election campaign bother t memorise the prime ministers of all B & C list countries?

I can agree on that, you are not necessarily smart and clever because you can act as living dictionary. The problem as I see it was that he obviously had problem to catch on when the conversation did alter direction and he just blathered nonsense in the vain hope to obscure the fact he didn’t have a clue. Anyone can miss a turn in the a conversation and there is nothing wrong or stupid to ask the reporter to repeat the question.

Like Biden and the man in the wheelchair, you admit the mistake make an excuse and move on.

But of course the those young saucy brats in media could show more respect for old people and not deliberate make such deceitful wicked quick turns and chancing focus when interviewing old folks, especially old POWs, that deserves respect.

virgil xenophon: I’ve lived in Corpus Christi, Falfurrias, Premont, Kingsville, and now, Uvalde County. Acuna rocks, and all the locals in Del Rio are now buying their diesel there. (The gasoline is also cheap, but can’t be trusted to be pure enough for modern motors.)

“You’ll find all of those points dealt with in the relevant thread.”

I looked for the thread entitled “Tim’s obsession with Palin that, quite frankly, borders on misogyny” but couldn’t find it. Anyway, in case you didn’t see the ‘Palin rumours debunked’ link the first time, here it is again:

http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/

Great headline:

The brain in McCain under strain about Spain

P.

Sarah Franco, thank you very much for what you said about Zapatero.

I’m sure Zapatero is just wondeful, except for his dislike of Jews. Beyond that, a nice guy.

I would not be surprised if those declarations by zapatero were proven to be out of context.

“”"”Apparently during dinner Zapatero hurled anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic tirades so excessive that the Benarrochs (a Jewish family of furriers) had to call his attention to the extremist tone of his anti-Semitic discourse. Nevertheless Zapatero was ecstatic and kept on going until he threw out this pearl: “It is understandable that someone might justify the Holocaust.”"”"

who is the source of this ‘credible’ information???

a leader of the opposition party PP-Partido Popular, the party who lost the elections after the madrid bombings by trying to deceive the spanish people and the world by claiming that ETA, not alcaeda was behind the terrorist attempts…

since it lost those elections, the PP has been a totally irresponsible and demagogic opposition party, with its reactionary wing weighting more and more.

I was in madrid during the last general election campaign, and the way PP was behaving is a shame for any democratic party…

since Zapatereo started questioning the heritage of the fascist regime, the ‘conservatives’ in spain have been playing dirty in a systematic way.

plus, Zapatero is know to be a discrete man, a calm person,

not at all someone who fits the above mentioned description.

this sooooooo much fits the mud-throwing typical of Zapatero…

but of course I am not expecting those who think he is anti-Semitic because they don’t agree with his foreign policy to take my word.

As I said, I strongly disagree with the spanish atttude regarding Kosova, being myself a strong supporter of the independence, I also disagree with a lot of other things about Spain, especially about its obsession for being considered part of the club of the big countries in the EU, etc, etc, etc.

but still, I maintain that Zapatero is a decent, progressive person…

you really don’t understand what it means to extend the right to marry to same sex couples in such a country, or to forbide nationalist-fascist demonstrations and pilgrimages to franco’s tomb…

I don’t think you can imagine how important that is for us women who are constantly discriminated on access to jobs because of the ‘danger’ that our ‘family duties’ may interfere with our productivity. Sarah Franco

Ah, but Sarah, did not all those progressives you so fondly embrace, progressives denouncing the other Sarah, Sarah Palin, invoke just such “wifely” and family duties as THEmajor reason she was unfit to be Vice-President?

Your statement is one of accidental irony, I suppose.

this is the man that introduced same-sex marriage, fought the excessive political influence by the catholic church,

Yep, nothing like same-sex marriage and reining in The Catholic Church to prevent another Madrid bombing!

In your list of Zapazero’s accomplishments, you omitted mentioning his craven accommodation of murderous Islamists who just love the guy.

And in the U.S. 84% of Arabo/american Muslims will be voting for Obama with only 4% voting republican.

Among Arab Christian Americans, a very dynamic, productive and progressive community, 53% will be voting McCain, and only 31% for Obama.

Meanwhile here in unimportant Canada we’re having national elections, as well!

Canada’s ’socialist’ party, the NDP, will be reinforcing its already profoundly progressive agenda by running not one, but two, radical Islamists, with known Muslim Brotherhood ties, as party candidates.

Any point in saying I’m votin’ Conservative?

Why is it when anti-Semites get caught it’s always because their statements are out of context? Sure, he’s a calm man, a decent man. Therefore, he can’t be an anti-Semite. As for the “proof”: I cannot validate it firsthand. The link I posted above does have an except from the Spanish-language podcast of his tirade. I love this line: “The quote on the podcast would translate as: “At times one can even understand that there might be people who could justify the Holocaust.” ‘ The link at the IHT sort of softens/defends Zapatero a little, but really, isn’t it like being a little bit pregnant?

you really don’t understand what it means to extend the right to marry to same sex couples in such a country, or to forbide nationalist-fascist demonstrations and pilgrimages to franco’s tomb…

Au contraire cher!

I’m gay, have brain, and so don’t support same-sex marriage.

Same sex marriage is legal in Canada, and was such a pressing and crucial dossier, that there were all of two or three gay marriages in the entire country.

Of course, gay marriage has served to open the door for polygamous marriages, something Ontario’s welfare systeme now acknowledges, and something that is extremely anti-female and misogynist.

This year there’s probably been hundreds of those and some will be making a pilgrimage to Mohammed’s tomb.

Can you see how this progress progresses, Sarah?

John P: A traitor to the gay race.

John P
Where did you get your polling data for this

Among Arab Christian Americans, a very dynamic, productive and progressive community, 53% will be voting McCain, and only 31% for Obama.

You know, the differing views of Zapatero that Seymour Paine and Sarah Franco hold seem to me to be both correct, and thus reflect the many faceted aspects of human beings and the human condition. I would compare this current dispute here to my experience in the American “Deep South” as it was transitioning from the Jim Crow era to the post Civil Rights Act of 1964 era.

What one found in that milieu were many individuals of otherwise outstanding intellect, morals, and accomplishment in almost all aspects of their personal and professional lives who were nonetheless virulently racist when it came to blacks. As such a moral/”operational” dilemma was presented in the form of the question as to how to treat such individuals in the context of society. Were they to be shunned as totally outside the pale and their considerable accomplishments and potential for future positive contributions to society be ignored? Besides, these people were, in fact, the majority–and often not only in positions of power but absolutely vital if society were to “work” nuts and bolts wise in the immediate sense and also progress over the long term.

On a personal level for example, did one cease all contact with the parents of one’s college room-mate (or indeed with the roommate himself who also held such views and is now a prominent lawyer)who had treated one as a second son and were otherwise upstanding citizens and productive members of society despite this one prejudicial “blind-spot” in their ethical/moral make-up? Now of course many would–indeed do–say that such a blemish is so huge that it blots out all other positives. Yet such an attitude in effect means that society is denied all the other considerable qualities of these people, and if they are in the majority, then one is forced, it seems to me, to consider the alternative if such people are excluded from the conversation. The recent wholesale purging of the Baathists in Iraq from all ability to contribute to society turned out in retrospect to have been a serious mistake, so perhaps it is better to work with people like Zapetero warts and all, and attempt to educate
and modify their views because the most likely alternatives to constructively working with such people are likely to be far worse.

I am sure there are people here who strongly disagree, but I feel some “middle-path” of open eyed working with such people without denying their negative attributes/attitudes is the “least worst” approach.

In Spain, anti-Semitism is new leftist trend

Another take on the dilemma I’ve discussed was the by now classic de-Nazification efforts in post-war Germany when the very technocrats that were the only ones who knew how to keep the electrical and transportation grid, etc., up and running had also been members of the Nazi Party. How deep did one scour? (A film which nicely depicts this dilemma is the 1986 made for tv movie “The Last Days of Patton” with George C. Scott in the role of post-war administrator of a large sector of American occupied Germany.)

On further thinking I will admit that it’s a somewhat different kettle of fish when the one at the top of of the power pyramid is the guy one really has to worry about insofar as his ability to set the tone/influence laws for overall society is concerned–as opposed to a mass of citizens holding private prejudicial views yet operating under benign “civil-rights” laws, etc.

“In an interview with a Spanish radio network…”

Not Spanish.

Radio Caracol, Miami, Florida, USA.

john P:

1- you are gay, ok, but are you spanish? have you any notion of the extent of homophobia in the ‘territory’ of the ‘macho latino’???

independently of agreeing or not with the decision to extend the right to marry to same-sex couples, such decision, and this is a fact, was seen as revolutionary in the catholic south of europe.

this is a fact. I remember his speech, and it was a speech full of dignity, when he said that this meant granting legal protection to ‘our co-citizens, our friends, our family’, thus not excluding his own family.

2- I agree with you in what you mention about sarah palin.

plus, it is not by mere chance that you have more successful women-politicians in the conservative parties than in the progressive ones.

it was disgusting to see her attacked by so-called progressives who pointed at the fact that she had a family as a weakness. no wonder the common people reacted and then felt identified with her.

3- about poligamous marriages, I don’t agree that same-sex marriage opens the door, but it is a fact that it is being used as an argument.

back to Zapatero being a decent person, and not a vile person…

even if he is proven wrong regarding same-sex marriage, that will mean at the most that he was naive, and the same applies to his position regarding the muslims.

being naif is not a good thing when you are a political leader.

however, it is very different from being a “vile human being”

nor is Zapatero a racist.

neither an anti-semitic.

NOT SOMEBODY:

the new link only repeats the previous one.

with less sources.

it is based in non-credible sources.

don’t expect me to feed siege mentality.

VIRgil:

my point in reaction to seymor is that he is quoting a news who is based in an unreliable source, thus it cannot be given credibility.

plus, I made my own research in the spanish media and blogs, because I can read spanish, and confirmed my intuition:

the accusations of anti-semitism are groundless, nothing more than revanchism and mud-throwing from Partido Popular.

let me add that I consider totally irresponsible to wave the spectrum of anti-semitism in such a way.

virgil: I think my views and Sarah’s views are polar opposites. She seems to be saying that his opinion of Israel (really, of course, Jews) has to be placed in the context of his support for women’s rights and his calmness and charm, or discretion, perhaps. I’m not sure where that leads. Does his goodness wash away the stain of anti-Semitism?

Of course, your point about the views of the head of state is spot on. People, newspapers, columnists, educators, etc., take a cue from this. He gives cover to Jew-hatred.

Personally, I would shun him, although I don’t think he’d notice.

You can see just how rife homophobia is in Spain, especially in Sitges, Barcelona, and Madrid with all those gay bars (seemingly more than in NYC). Here’s a list of gay bars in Spain; I’m pretty sure it’s not even close to complete. Here’s an article on gay life in Spain. I’ll quote from the opening paragraphs:

Spain and Portugal have a long history of official repression and public tolerance of homosexuality. These days, the voices of repression can generally be ignored, and the two countries are as gay-friendly as practically anywhere you care to mention. Sitges, Ibiza, Torremolinos, the Algarve and the Chueca quarter of Madrid are the main gay centres, but except for the most rural backwaters, you will find some gay life everywhere.

Unfortunately, there are still vestiges of anti-gay feeling among more conservative elements in Spain, and the eight years of government by the Partido Popular were less than ideal. The consistently reactionary and disproportionately influential Catholic church, in particular, is light years from accepting homosexuality as normal. And local initiatives aside, issues like single-sex marriage and adoption by homosexual couples are yet to be resolved, as in most of the world. Even so, it can be said that Spanish legislation with regard to gays and lesbians is at least as liberal and in most cases more so than that in more modern Western nations.

As for Zapatero’s anti-Semitism, apparently the ADL (shoot, Jews again) seems to believe it as well.

Sarah Franco: Wrong on gay life in Spain, wrong on Zapatero. Vote for Seymour Paine.

seymor:

1- I am portuguese

2- I live in Portugal

3- I travel to spai often

4- When I go to Madrid I stay at Chueca, although I am not gay, because it is the nicest area of madrid.

5- I am aquainted to the question of LGTB rights, have friends who happen to be LGTB activists here in Portugal and who closely follow the situation is Spain…

so, fuck off…

and Zapatero is indeed a DECENT MAN

and since you will never ever find one single word from me to accuse me of anti-semitism, islamophobia, homophobia, gipsyphobia, whatever-phobia,

I sugest that you quit trying to distort my words just because I managed to discredit your sources.

“”"”She seems to be saying that his opinion of Israel (really, of course, Jews) has to be placed in the context of his support for women’s rights and his calmness and charm, or discretion, perhaps. I’m not sure where that leads. Does his goodness wash away the stain of anti-Semitism?”"”"”

this is simply ridiculous

at least learn how to manipulate properly

So to get back to the original point. McCain deserves all the scorn being heaped upon him here, for being unaware of the disgusting anti-Semite, Zapatero.

Fuck off, yourself. Sarah: I would not be surprised if those declarations by zapatero were proven to be out of context. ( 19 September 2008, 6:25 pm)

You can’t even remember what you said a few hours before. And, Sarah, just a comment: putting something in CAPS doesn’t make it truer, even though you might feel it does.

Of course, Obama is a foreign policy giant. After all, he’s spent 10 minutes in Israel.

“It’s an easy mistake to make if you lived through those times.”

Oh, witty. The snotty-nosed kids are coming out of the woodwork.

” This is mistranslated into English as prime minister”

Nonsense. That is not a ‘mistranslation’. It’s called localisation.

This thread has played itself out, and then some.