Harry's Place

I like how the licensee and manager claimed that they were not aware of the Nazis.

I wonder who they thought the burly skinhead blokes with swastikas chanting zeig heil in their establishment were then?

A fancy dress party?

Could have been one of the Princes Royal?

They said they thought “Sieg Heil” was German for “more beer”…

There’s a touching eulogy to ISD on blood and honour’s website. If you haven’t seen it apparently he lived the life of a saint and was assasinated by ZOG.

I must admit I had to do a double take reading that: I was getting Stuart Donaldson (who I had to look up) mixed up with Stuart Adamson. Thirteen valleys he has wandered for her love, and all that…

I was somewhat tempted by this box set of swing music made during World War 2, which consists mainly of music from occupied Europe by people like Django Reinhardt but which has one disc devoted to a Nazi propaganda swing band called “Charlie & His Orchestra”.

I found that news item really depressing – it was like something from the 1970s. I don’t get, either, how the police weren’t alerted and how they weren’t there in force cracking a few heads open with their batons.

And the couple who run the pub obviously need to have their windows put through or something. Cunts.

They’ll have some ’splainin to do at licence renewal time. Possibly they didn’t know, anecdotally nazi’s are often (understandably) sneaky about booking their gigs.

I just can’t imagine how this happened either.

It seems curious that there’s only one link on google news, to the bbc article, surely this story is kind of a big deal?

I like how the licensee and manager claimed that they were not aware of the Nazis.

Funnily, my first thought was of you.

I’d never heard of this Donaldson guy before, so I followed the wiki link to his biography, which appears to have been written by a fellow neo-Nazi.

http://www.skrewdriver.net/diamond.html [warning: contains extreme racist and pro-Nazi material]

At the risk of David T doing a ‘Jenna Delich’ on me, I must say it was actually quite interesting, particularly the stuff on the emergence of the skinhead bands in the 70s and 80s and their relationship with punk.

I was a bit shocked to discover that Donaldson and I had both slept on the same sofa at Suggs’ (Graham McPherson of Madness) mum’s house in the early 80’s. At different times, I hasten to add. Suggs was Donaldson’s former roadie and a personal friend, whereas I used to go out with Suggs’ foster sister, Joanne.

It was all an awful long time ago, but I don’t recall Suggs’ mum being in any way a racist, and his foster sister had spiky peroxide-blond hair and was in the SWP! I sometimes wonder what became of Joanne, her being my first love and all that.

How conservative, rebellious SWPer, dyes hair, makes boyfriend sleep on couch.

Those poor people at the house though. What could they do but flee?

It puts me in mind of when we lived next door to a skinhead couple in the early 90s and how, when they had their very loud and very raucous parties full of stomping skinheads, my then girlfriend would berate me for not being man enough to pop round and have a word. At 3 o’clock in the morning. Actually, I did once – I was invited in, plied with drink and assured that the music would be turned down. As soon as I got back, of course, the music went to double the volume… with added banging on all the walls.

Maybe that’s where Morrissey gets it from.

Yes, but apparently, according to the report, the licensee and manager were there at the time but still deny seeing any sign Nazi regalia or hearing any racist chanting – that’s clearly absurd. There is no point in making statements like that. Their best line of defence would be to say they were booked by what they thought was the rambers association but then a bunch of Nazis turned up instead.

That’s Somerset for you. “I never new Hitler was a Nazi” etc. No doubt Slavoj Zizek could explain why transgressive behaviour remains so appealing, whether it manifests as neo-Nazism, Have Your Say style racist bigotry or Livingstonite-Gallowayite Mitfordism.

Still struck me as the sort of thing you’d say, Benji.

How conservative, rebellious SWPer, dyes hair, makes boyfriend sleep on couch

Nah, I have Suggs’ mum to blame for that.

I had heard of ISD, but not Slavoj Zizek. Let’s see, a post-Marxist sociologist. That’s enough.

I sometimes wonder what became of Joanne, her being my first love and all that.

Don’t worry mate, she probably recovered. :-)

“Their best line of defence would be to say they were booked by what they thought was the rambers association but then a bunch of Nazis turned up instead.”

Benjamin displays the fine art of dissembling…

Still struck me as the sort of thing you’d say, Benji.

In jest, yes. Dark sense of humour…

Well, you know, spot of legal advice. Don’t want them to live off the state…

Don’t worry mate, she probably recovered. :-)

Oh, I dunno Benji, I reckon she’s probably still heartbroken – I tend to have that effect on women. I know she left the SWP and stopped dyeing her hair shortly after we parted, but maybe she was just trying to win back my affections.

My guess, Zin, is that she either joined a real socialist movement or is now a fauxocialist and pin-stripped spiv and speculator in the City.

Oh, I dunno Benji, I reckon she’s probably still heartbroken – I tend to have that effect on women.

Yeah, same here. Treat ‘em mean, keep ‘em keen, absolutely :-)

My guess, Zin, is that she either joined a real socialist movement or is now a fauxocialist and pin-stripped spiv and speculator in the City

… or dedicated the rest of her life to denouncing the SWP. Now that really would be sad.

The original Skrewdriver (around the time when I suspect Donaldson slept on Suggs mum’s sofa and radio1 DJ Mark Radcliffe was a member) where not thought of as a racist band. I can remember having a 12inch single and playing it to various lefty mates. It was another incarnation (starting around 1982) where Donaldson became openly racist.

Charlie and his orchestra however (put together by Joseph Goebbels who was something more than the Simon Cowell of his day were always a nazi institution although their music was only for broadcasting abroad as Hitler and the old fogeys thought jazz a rather decadent form of music (fairly unsurpringly.)

More info on Nazi Jazz here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zCXYajl7NhoC&pg=PA131&lpg=PA131&dq=charlie’s+orchestra&source=web&ots=vpvqLMCVms&sig=_9Qm5fppvHIMsTQfyTPmvKEMpDA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

or dedicated the rest of her life to denouncing the SWP.

I have a close relative that does that. He only attended one SWP meeting. I have attended about three, and even helped them put some posters up, before deciding revolutionary socialism is not for me because I am too lazy.

My guess, Zin, is that she… is now a fauxocialist and pin-stripped spiv and speculator in the City

No, I don’t she metamorphasised into Oliver Kamm.

“Financial markets need regulation—they also need high-risk hedge funds” – Kamm, founder of WMG hedge fund, December 2005.

Play it again, Kamm.

Benjamin:
“I have attended about three, and even helped them put some posters up, before deciding revolutionary socialism is not for me because I am too lazy.”

Very similar to my experience, except that I also helped them deliver leaflets. And I decided that revolutionary socialism – or at least their brand of it – wasn’t for me because they were all a bunch of stupid, middle-class cunts.

Paul

Well, compared to horny handed sons of toil that make up the HP commentariat, I am probably a middle class cunt myself, so I couldn’t really accuse them of that. The bloke I helped with the posters was a secondary school teacher.

Graham:
“I can remember having a 12inch single and playing it to various lefty mates. It was another incarnation (starting around 1982) where Donaldson became openly racist.”

Yes, but they were always shit, weren’t they? All that crap that came after the first burst of punk – whether it was the appalling Oi bands or idiots like The Exploited. Absolute rubbish.

And skinheads! As Mark E Smith quite rightly said of The Redskins’ X Moore (whose favourite band was The Fall, as it happened): any grown man who dresses like a skinhead must be a retard.

Is it actually illegal to have a Nazi rally? This seems no worse than half that “Undercover Mosque” stuff, and WM Police saw nothing wrong in that.

Those BNP “Red White and Blue” jobs are legal; I think the issue is whether they are properly organised and proper permission is sought.

Is it actually illegal to have a Nazi rally?

In order to avoid being deemed to have either incited racial hatred or engaged in behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace, you’d have to have some unusually well-behaved neo-Nazis.

Which would be an improvement, I suppose. Also I hope they tidied the site after the rally finished; if there’s one thing worse than neo-Nazis it’s neo-Nazis who litter.

unusually well-behaved neo-Nazis.

Young Conservatives?

I can’t for the life of me remember his name but there was a Luftwaffe Officer who used to play with Django Reinhardt’s band during the occupation of Paris. Similarly Goebbals was a huge fan of ‘unnazified’ swing, even inviting Hilter and Goering to a few concerts.

Zin@1211 yeah that’s the eulogy/conspiracy theory I was talking about… Longer than I remembered it tho.

Those BNP Red White and Blue affairs probably do incite racial hatred, but they dolly them up as some sort of family festival.

The Imams didn’t piss in gardens.

Zin: you’re not ugly enough to have to have sex with a SWPer

I once organised a club night in Glasgow to cash in on a Jewish holiday, when lots of Jewish kids would be back home and up for socialising. I managed to get a crowd of around 200 mostly Jewish teenagers to The Cathouse, only to discover that a skinhead disco had been booked downstairs that same night. There wasn’t any Nazi regalia on display, and as I recall, they were dancing to old ska records. I think they must have been good skinheads, but that didn’t ameliorate the nervousness felt by my lot when they happened upon the baldies in the lav.

but they dolly them up as some sort of family festival

More like a Volk Festival really…

Yes, but they were always shit, weren’t they?

Probably (I can’t even remember after all these years). In one sense the first wave of punks had been a small and (mostly) middle-class club. When things opened up a bit strange happenings occured such as the party I remember an acquaintance who was a rather shabby bohemian SWPer having at Brixton hill in about early 78 when out of nowhere fifty or so skinheads arrived and started pogoing to Sham 69 (I still remember being on the floor bellow and watching the ceiling moving) . The context to put it all in is that of what we were discussing the other day, bands like the Specials and Madness who came later. When Jimmy Pursey appeared at the RAR carnival and declared himself an anti-racist many people breathed a sigh of relief as there were a whole lot of skinheads around suddenly and the whole movement could have been intrinsically racist for all anyone knew. Of course for people like Donaldson who had seen the power and fright that a gang of skins could inspire it always was. Thankfully along came the likes of Dammers and Suggs.

ps. In my old pub, I once had a BNP recruiter trying to hand out flyers and start a few chants. Luckierly, the bulk of people, being local footie fans, found him to be a bit of a cunt on a deeply personel level and thus applauded me chucking him out. Realising his lack of charismatic following, he merely hissed ‘Trot’ at me and ambled out.

pps. Mark Radcliffe…really?

Also I hope they tidied the site after the rally finished;

Hippies won’t do that, you can bet on it.

The Imams didn’t piss in gardens

If they drank as much as neo-nazis they probably would. Actually drink is the wrong word, “quaff” is more accurate.

pps. Mark Radcliffe…really?

Yep

http://www.scrawnandlard.co.uk/trivia.htm

Some skins are gay. Some a gay Nazis. Remember Nicky Crane? Had a Jewis boyfriend I think … Also appeared in a pop video though I forget which.

Skins were originally just ska fans though, weren’t they?

“Yes, but they were always shit, weren’t they? All that crap that came after the first burst of punk – whether it was the appalling Oi bands or idiots like The Exploited. Absolute rubbish.”

Ha! Skrewdriver actually pretty much *were* in the first wave of punk – they played the original Roxy Club in 77 and even got favourably reviewed in Sniffin’ Glue. How many HP contributrs can put *that* on their cv?!

Their first LP (on Chiswick) was quite decent and John Peel was quite partial to the great Anti-Social 7″. Anything to the contrary is just rampant after-the-fact snobbery!

As for their idiotic racist incarnation, well I’ve never heard a note by them and have no desire to. God knows why Stuart turned into a frothing maniac… what’s the betting he was once told “you’ll never get anywhere unless you pay your dues” but misheard the last word – with “hilarious” consequences?!

and even got favourably reviewed in Sniffin’ Glue. How many HP contributrs can put *that* on their cv?!

I can actually (although I would have to have at least three counts of being an inch away from punching Mark Perry’s lights out taken into account) – ATV’s former bass player is one of my oldest friends.

I’m personally in favour of the general populace celebrating Ian Stuart’s unscheduled trip to Valhalla, never mind limiting it to only paid-up members of Blood and Honour.

His death certainly put the breaks on his musical career [that's enough car-crash humour -- ed.]

“Their first LP (on Chiswick) was quite decent and John Peel was quite partial to the great Anti-Social 7″. Anything to the contrary is just rampant after-the-fact snobbery!”

Well, no – don’t be daft. They were rubbish (like most punk bands were rubbish), even then. Definitely. Sorry to disagree with you like.

Your Name Here,

Their signature tune was ‘White Power’ (imaginative title, eh?) and from memory it went:

“What do we need?
White power!
Today.
White power!
For Britain.
White power!
Before it’s too late.”

Obviously he wasn’t on his way to the Ivor Novello awards when his car careered off the road.

Zin: you’re not ugly enough to have to have sex with a SWPer

I think I’ll have that inscribed on my headstone.

Oh, and if there’s any doubt that Skrewdriver were rubbish – here they are in their (supposedly great) early years being extremely rubbish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLd6LPoFwO0

There is a video at Google Video of Nick Griffin shouting “we will not apologise for Richard I!” at the Red, White and Blue festival. Quite bizarre.

Elder of Zyion blogspot been zapped??? Strange Google message at http://www.elderofzyion.blogspt.com

For good political skin backgorund, Shane Meadows is as good a source as most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Is_England

“Well, no – don’t be daft. They were rubbish (like most punk bands were rubbish), even then. Definitely. Sorry to disagree with you like.”

Ah, well, if you weren’t particularly into punk then that’s an entirely different matter! I hereby absolve you of rampant snobbery and indict you instead for the even more unforgivable crime of bad taste…

“I can actually (although I would have to have at least three counts of being an inch away from punching Mark Perry’s lights out taken into account) – ATV’s former bass player is one of my oldest friends”

Tell us more! (on both counts)

mis-typed: http://www.elderofziyon.blogspot.com

Dave Osler has just put up a post on a related topic.

http://www.davidosler.com/

“Ah, well, if you weren’t particularly into punk then that’s an entirely different matter! I hereby absolve you of rampant snobbery and indict you instead for the even more unforgivable crime of bad taste…”

That’s better, thanks. I wasn’t particularly into punk at the time, no – mainly because I was 8. But I do like some punk – just not all of it, and certainly not those I mentioned.

Tell us more! (on both counts)

Well I would do but apparently I have used up my HP nostalgia allowance for this year already (and I have not even been to see the Boys at ULU yet.)

Thanks for the tip Tim.

It is strange how well organised the far-right is in comparison to the muddle-headed splittism of the trot left. I guess Nazis are looking for a leader while Trots all want to be the leader.

Thats probably enough pop-psychology.

You gotta feel for the members of the original Skrewdriver band. They wanted to play punk, and end up synonymous with White Power.

What always amused me about the far right was their notion of ZOG (and not the former King of Albania) and how every single transaction of the British state, from council litter picking up to the monarch herself is controlled by the state of Israel.

The licensees should have ensured that the party-goers were confined to their own land, and if they couldn’t stop them trespassing on other people’s property they should have closed the bar, and brought the proceedings to an end. This would be true regardless of who the clientele actually were. I simply do not believe that the landlord was unaware of what was going on.

Spare a thought, though, for residents and businesses with a large encampment of travellers moving onto land nearby. This happened on an industrial estate where I worked. Caravans arrived at noon, and immediately, the owners unleashed their pit-bulls and rottweilers. Staff were trapped inside the building. By the time police arrived, every bicycle and motorbike in the car park had been stolen. Car-radios were gone, and two people had to be taken to hospital because of dog bites. By the time they left, a couple of weeks later, my own factory had shelled out about £10K for extra security, and all the factories had to chip in about £5K each for the safe disposal of hazardous waste left behind on the site. A neighbouring car dealership closed down, because although his insurance had paid for the vandalism to his stock and premises, his insurance premium had increased tenfold.

Now, every scrap of open space has a stout barrier, or an earth birm, to prevent them ever gaining access again.

Sometimes you are simply expected to “celebrate the diversity” of the folk who squat on your land, piss on your doorstep, steal your property and set their attack dogs on your staff and visitors. It kind of depends on who they are….

Screwdriver did indeed suck.
These guys are much better
http://www.myspace.com/jewdriver

They once released a record called boots and bagels

I wish all racists would wear the same uniform – that way, you know who to avoid. The shame is that skinhead culture was perverted by neo-Nazis; originally it was Ska-influenced and politically it was left-wing. I’d be happier if all racists wore bright purple wigs, a big fake red nose, trouser braces and instead of screaming “seig heil” or “go back to your own country”, they could throw custard pies at each other and honk a horn.

Funny to read this. Screwdriver were a neo-Nazi band that I used to follow and I even had tatooed on my arm but later covered by a jaguar. I visited their illegal squat in South London and saw them perform a couple of times. I even went out with the lead singers younger sister (I only got to finger her though) for a short while. I was all of 15 years old and later became a race traitor by marrying an Indian lady.

Sometimes their lyrics come back into my head from one of their songs….

If I was a pub owner I certainly wouldn’t let them in. They’re big on glassings and parties held by them sometimes end with the building burning down.

The NF were big sponsors of them.

I knew a skinhead of Turkish origin called Hassan who was a Hitler enthusiast and used to earn 20 Quid a bricking for throwing bricks through Pakis (read Indians) windows from the same NF mid-level leaders.

The old NF leader I knew was a big home brew maker in his council flat but it was dangerous to go around because he also had a thing for teenage boys….

Skrewdriver were shit on so many levels, proving that fascism and culture can never co-exist peacefully.

Ex-Nazi,

What made you visit this blog today?

Yeah brazenly making cars full of drunken idiots swerve off the road! There’s clearly no limit to the power and reach of ZOG

Ah yes, Ian Stuart Donaldson – one of our more simple operations. A little tinkering with the van’s brakes while the fat goyim were sleeping off their hangovers and bob’s your heinkel!

I can tell you, we had a slap up meal back at HQ afterwards. Knishes and Kugel all around!

“Ex-Nazi,
What made you visit this blog today?”

Sounds like a regular commenter who wants to hide their embarrassing past. Don’t blame them, really, but I am intrigued.

More about Skrewdriver & Ian Stuart here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4lP3Iwbo8w

It makes me laugh how people go on about how the Skinheads were originally left wing and it got hijacked…I was a kid but .I’m just old enough to remember them the first time round, in the later part of the 60’s and they were morons then. After all, the famous Skinhead/suedehead books were pretty contemporaneous to the original phenomena and they depicted them as the vicious morons most of them were/are. I was involved in bands and RAR gigs in the late 70’s early 80’s. I think I met one skinhead who was nice. All the others were aggressive and intimidating. The far right that I came across weren’t what I’d call ideologically right wing. I mean, most of them couldn’t attempt to propose an intellectual basis of any kind to defend their points of view. They were just nasty moronic scum. I imagine the people who went to this memorial event are cut from the same cloth. Just watching that film brings back to those halcyon days…not.

In the Finnish tragedy from yesterday, it was suggested that people who listen to metalic-music, seem to be somewhat prone to doing the kind of murderous suicide act that the bloke done in de college.

These blokes in de field was doin the same.

Any connection????

…er…my post seems to infer that being a moron and left wing are mutually exclusive. Of course we all know that isn’t quite true…(calling the usual suspects..)

After all, the famous Skinhead/suedehead books were pretty contemporaneous to the original phenomena and they depicted them as the vicious morons most of them were/are.

He he. Richard Allen (I think that was his name) has a lot to answer for. But then so do some schools. In mine, during the early to mid seventies, we were often given Allen’s books to study as (being a downmarket comprehensive) Shakespeare and Dickens were beyond us. I often wondered how such middle-class silliness contributed to the making of people such as Donaldson and all those baldy Sham fans later in the decade!

Here we go:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jimthing/allen.htm

David T – Nicky Crane had a Black British boyfriend, and I’m pretty sure died of an AIDS related illness. He appeared in a Psychick TV video in the early 80s [for the track Unclean on the 8Transmissions video] – they had met him while he was working as a doorman at a gay fetish club. He was at that point living a double life, nazi skin by day, gay leatherboy by night.

A friend of mine who used to be a skinhead (late seventies/early eighties) told me he didn’t think skinheads were racist so much, it was just that they liked violence, and being racist gave them some excuse for violence.

Having Nazis show up in your back yard can’t be much fun, but at least they weren’t hippies or ‘peace protesters’ .

Having Nazis show up in your back yard can’t be much fun, but at least they weren’t hippies or ‘peace protesters’ .

Sorry, but Nazis are much worse than most hippies or peace protestors. Nazi peace protestors (like Lady Renouf) are, however, worst of all.

Thank God we live in civilized Britain

If this were Israel the Nazis (aka Jewish settlers) would have taken over the house and expelled the inhabitants claiming “G-d promised us this in the Torah!”

Ah….one of the usual suspects…..

Time for bed.

Benjamin: There is a video at Google Video of Nick Griffin shouting “we will not apologise for Richard I!” at the Red, White and Blue festival. Quite bizarre.

If i remember my english history correctly, Jews were barred from Richard I’s wedding and soon after there was rampant anti-semitic mob violence in London and numerous Jews were killed. Maybe this is why Nick Griffin was shouting “we will not apologise for Richard I”. Or maybe it was because of the 3rd Crusade.

They were chanting “Harry’s place”, weren’t they?

I ddnt realise Nicky Crane had died. Thats good news. I remember that three members of Anti Fascist Action were jailed back in the late 80s for carrying out a vicious and thoroughly well-deserved attack on him. The judge who sent them down was Jewish, but I guess did what he felt the law obliged him to do. Ah, memories. Anyway, good riddance to Crane – and Donaldson too.

Gene, it would depend if they were there to attack you as an individual, or simply to do Nazi-things alone and leave the place in a tip. Then it would be a toss-up.

Even if not…

From Crane’s Wiki article:

The Sun ran an article on him entitled Nazi Nick is a Panzi

Must say I preferred its response to Charlie Sargent’s conviction: “End of the road for the five foot toad”.

Now, here’s a question of free-speech on blogs

I ‘ad a Nazi in my garden once… and it was the only time I ever ‘ad a bloke.