Harry's Place

Would you only consider peoples who views you agree with to be “experts”?

Would you only consider peoples who views you agree with to be “experts”?

If Cole thinks Ahmadinejad was making a careful distinction between Zionists and Jews in his speech, I can think of at least one area where he’s not an expert.

Gene,

On the subject of Iran, the video on this link may be worth a post on its own.

On a different note, and I know you do not support her – but as this is mainly a British blog – it may be worthwhile including what Sarah Palin has also said (or was supposed to have said about Ahmadinejad:

He must be stopped.

The world must awake to the threat this man poses to all of us. Ahmadinejad denies that the Holocaust ever took place. He dreams of being an agent in a “Final Solution” — the elimination of the Jewish people. He has called Israel a “stinking corpse” that is “on its way to annihilation.” Such talk cannot be dismissed as the ravings of a madman — not when Iran just this summer tested long-range Shahab-3 missiles capable of striking Tel Aviv, not when the Iranian nuclear program is nearing completion, and not when Iran sponsors terrorists that threaten and kill innocent people around the world…..

Iran is not only a regional threat; it threatens the entire world. It is the no. 1 state sponsor of terrorism. It sponsors the world’s most vicious terrorist groups, Hamas and Hezbollah…..

We must rally the world to press for truly tough sanctions at the U.N. or with our allies if Iran’s allies continue to block action in the U.N. We must start with restrictions on Iran’s refined petroleum imports.

We must reduce our dependency on foreign oil to weaken Iran’s economic influence.

We must target the regime’s assets abroad; bank accounts, investments, and trading partners.

President Ahmadinejad should be held accountable for inciting genocide, a crime under international law.

We must sanction Iran’s Central Bank and the Revolutionary Guard Corps — which no one should doubt is a terrorist organization.

Pretty tough talk from Governor Palin.

Mikey, when Palin speaks for herself, in her own words, she’s not that coherent. See here.

Mikey,
Are you sure of the sources for that quote?

And she also said this:

It is said that the measure of a country is the treatment of its most vulnerable citizens. By that standard, the Iranian government is both oppressive and barbaric. Under Ahmadinejad’s rule, Iranian women are some of the most vulnerable citizens.

If an Iranian woman shows too much hair in public, she risks being beaten or killed.

If she walks down a public street in clothing that violates the state dress code, she could be arrested.

But in the face of this harsh regime, the Iranian women have shown courage. Despite threats to their lives and their families, Iranian women have sought better treatment through the “One Million Signatures Campaign Demanding Changes to Discriminatory Laws.” The authorities have reacted with predictable barbarism. Last year, women’s rights activist Delaram Ali was sentenced to 20 lashes and 10 months in prison for committing the crime of “propaganda against the system.” After international protests, the judiciary reduced her sentence to “only” 10 lashes and 36 months in prison and then temporarily suspended her sentence. She still faces the threat of imprisonment.

Far more cutting edge than cowards like Sandra Bernhard, non?

Now if only she’d lace into Saudi Arabia we’d really be going places.

John P.
When did she say that?

Oh, and I forgot; Juan Cole is your typical deluded I-don’t-hate-Jews-just-zionists moron.

But he’s a useful moron, in that he his anti-semitism can be quoted in order to contrast and to frame extremist ideologues like Obama Barak so as to better pass them off as ‘moderates’.

Cole’s views on ‘zionists’ no doubt dove-tail with those of Obama’s wizened spiritual advisor, the Reverend Wright.

So you WILL be quoting the good Rev as well, I assume.

John P,

Lately you’ve been about as coherent as Sarah Palin in an interview with Katie Couric.

Is Juan Cole an expert?

Given that he memorably stated that Ahmedinajad’s threat to “wipe Israel off the map” was a (malicious) mistranslation of the Farsi original to English – only for Ahmedinajad’s own English website to feature the very same threat… Well, there are two and just two possibilities:

Either he is a partisan political propagandist, without any special expertise, who is making a political point (with which I might disagree, but then I am not an expert on this issues either),

Or he is an expert, yet a thoroughly dishonest one, who is demeaning and prostitutising his expertise for the sake of agitprop: a knowing, self-aware liar.

In these circumstances, calling him “expert”, in inverted commas, was an act of charity on Gene’s part.

Gene: Lately?

Lately you’ve been about as coherent as Sarah Palin in an interview with Katie Couric.

Gene, if you’d just think about it a minute, you’d realise that Juan Cole and the Rev Wright share the same mental *space* when it comes to many things ‘zionist’ and conspiratorial.

Who are you kidding?

Shall say no more, not wanting to derail the thread.

John.
Why did you invent the Arab Christians are for McCain, Muslims are for Obama poll?

Gene is souring on the American Left’s go-to Middle East maven.

Do you think Cole’s views may be a wee bit corrupted by domestic political noise?

Gene,

Thank you.

Tim,

The source of the quotes for Palin are Jerusalem Post and The New York Sun.

I know.

“the speech she would have made”?

She never made it. As the report in the New York Sun states,

Her appearance was canceled by rally organizers who sought a nonpolitical event.

There may be more to it, but I doubt the words have been made up by these newspapers.

Well, I guess it is possible that the small cabal of Jews that control the world are all Zionist, and no non-zionist jews are invited to the weekly meetings, thus rendering Juan Cole and Ahmamadman technically correct.

Or perhaps, the Cabal are made up of Christian, Muslim and atheist Zionist, and no Jews participate.

This would be consistant with a world view that believes that if you don’t want to destroy Israel, you are a default Zionist.

Thus makeing GW, Bordon Brown, Ken Rudd, That funny French guy etc Zionist, and Ahmamadman correct.

Gene is souring on the American Left’s go-to Middle East maven.

Do you have any evidence that I was ever “sweet” on him?

“Do you have any evidence that I was ever “sweet” on him?”

You’re right, gene. That was snarky and wrong.

But you will aknowledge, I’m sure, that Cole is a Lefty netroots hero.

Clearly not “anti-semetic”

“The president supported his deputy’s comments, while making one of his strongest tirades to date against the ‘leaders of Zionism’.

Mr Ahmadinejad said that a handful – only around 2000 Zionists – dominated the centres of power in the West. They were atheists, he said, who wanted to dominate the world and plunder the wealth of nations.

And Mr Ahmadinejad argued that that many of those now living in Israel had been duped into moving to the country by that handful of Zionists. It was time to open the gates to let them return home. ”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7628316.stm

So Zionists are atheists not Jews (silly but whatever)

I do believe that Christian Zionists control the US, with two of them running for president. Even if you believe Obama is pretending it is creepy on how he has to be so forceful.

Flanker
Why don’t you give us a guest post listing the 2,000? Or perhaps, if thats a bit taxing, just give us a list of names of which Christian Zionists control the US?

Or perhaps, if thats a bit taxing, just give us a list of names of which Christian Zionists control the US?

GW Bush, perhaps?

S.O.Muffin: ‘Is Juan Cole an expert?
Given that he memorably stated that Ahmedinajad’s threat to “wipe Israel off the map” was a (malicious) mistranslation of the Farsi original to English – only for Ahmedinajad’s own English website to feature the very same threat… Well, there are two and just two possibilities:
Either he is a partisan political propagandist, without any special expertise, who is making a political point (with which I might disagree, but then I am not an expert on this issues either),
Or he is an expert, yet a thoroughly dishonest one, who is demeaning and prostitutising his expertise for the sake of agitprop: a knowing, self-aware liar.’

Once upon a time Juan Cole was an excellent scholar of Middle Eastern history, in particular of Shi’a Islam. For many years he’s been a professor at UMich.

However, as I’m sure we’re all aware from his website Informed Comment, he’s been a strident critic of the Iraq war and is avowedly anti-Bush – and now he’s turning his fire on McCain/Palin. At a Central Eurasian studies conference in Ann Arbor a couple of years ago, Craig Murray was the keynote speaker, while Juan Cole also gave a speech, mostly about how the war in Afghanistan was – you guessed it – all about oil zzzzzzz …..

Rumor is he missed out on a tenure position at a top Ivy League university because the hiring board was concerned about his politicking and media profile. They missed out on a good academic – albeit one who is more famous for shouting from the rooftops than for his scholarship

Juan Cole is the Middl East academic “expert” who doesn’t speak or read Arabic. Nice……..

Or Farsi, for that matter.

Thanks Joe – considering that the Guardian is reporting that Bush said no to the Israeli’s bombing Iran earlier this year you have to wonder how slavishly devoted to the Zionist cause Bush is eh?

not to mention that Bush has done his best to block the Israel-Syria talks.

virgil xenophon 26 September 2008, 2:46 am
Juan Cole is the Middl East academic “expert” who doesn’t speak or read Arabic. Nice……..

virgil xenophon 26 September 2008, 2:51 am
Or Farsi, for that matter.

Er, I’m pretty sure those are erroneous statements, especially if his professional CV is anything to go by. It’s pretty difficult to become a tenured area studies professor in the US without a decent reading, writing and/or speaking command of at least a couple of the relevant area languages. Then again, I remember similar allegations were made against Nadia Abu El-Hajj.

Granted, he himself may have admitted to less than perfect fluency in these languages.

Cole is an idiot and a liar to boot. I know Farsi, and I know exactly what Ahmadinejad means when he says “Israel must be wiped off the pages of history.” It is very clear that the imperative “bâyad” meaning “must” does not refer to a self-inflicted implosion.

Juan Cole is a Muqtada Sadr boot licker and a liar to boot.

Thank you Yale U. to kick his red-brown behind off campus.

As bad as Juan Cole is, at least he gives Israel the time of day, accepts its existence and even shows some understanding of its actions and its fears. That’s way more than you can say for his leftie fellow travelers. Not that I’m a Juan Cole fan, but he does say things about Israel you don’t usually hear from the usual suspects.

This story about Juan Cole reminds me of the old Jewish anecdote: after the burial of an old Jew, the rabbi left the cemetery and the members of the community complained “How could you praise that vile skinflint” The rabbi “In comparison with his son he is a real Zadik”
So Juan Cole is a real Zadik when we compare him to the SWP people.
But he is defending the crazy conspiracy theory of a madman, who wants people to believe that there are a “small but deceitful number of people called Zionists. Although they are a minuscule minority, they have been dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centers as well as the political decision-making centers of some European countries and the US in a deceitful, complex and furtive manner.”
Is the financial crisis in the USA the result of a “Zionist” conspiracy? If part of the left wants to believe this, then we can qualify them as mad, as people who lost any sense for the realities of life

The accusation against Nadia Abu el-Haj was that she doesnt know Hebrew – and the accusation was backed up by some fairly convincing evidence, I recall.

FWanker, even if Armagedinehad had replaced the word “Zionists” by “Evildoers” I would still find that piece an example of antisemitic hatred, because of its style and themes.

But you wouldn’t recognize it because you share the same style.

Hacer que entiendas es como pedirle peras al olmo.

Cole fell into the trap of being stupid and ignorant, or else a lying antisemite.
And we already know which of those Fwanker is.

at least he gives Israel the time of day, accepts its existence

Big of him. I am impressed, dude.

I find John P perfectly coherent. Perhaps it’s simply a matter of concentrating, and reading the words in the right order.

Or perhaps, the Cabal are made up of Christian, Muslim and atheist Zionist, and no Jews participate

It is perfectly possible to be an atheist Zionist Jew.

Flanker – Atheists can be Jews. Anti semites of the old school Far Right and the Islamist Far Right hate and hated atheist Jews as much as ultra-Orthodox ones. It is a form of ethnic hatred not opposition to a set of religious principles.

Ahmadinejad’s comments are classic anti-semitism with the words Jew substituted for the word zionist.

Now is the time for Americans to unite on behalf of the strong sanctions that are needed to increase pressure on the Iranian regime.

Fine words from the flip-flopping liar Obama. If he was true to the idea of “uniting” then why did he allow his people to threaten the protest organisers over Hitler-Junior with reporting to the IRS for exceeeding their charity status if the invited Palin. Why did Hillary withdraw on the basis that somehow inviting Palin in UNITY was political.

How much more powerful for Palin and Clinton to have shared a platform and embraced the protest together? This would have given it wider publicity.

Obama – Liar!

Its EASY to determine whether its antisemitism. Just take the word “Zionist” and substitute the word with a typical Zionist.

So, in “Zionists control the banks w/w/” substitute “Mid West Christian Farmers control the Banks w/w”. Nope! That’s not it!

How about “Andrea Merkel controls the banks w/w” Nope that’s not it either.

How about “Jews control the banks w/w” Now that rings a bell. I’ve read that on lots of web sites. Let me see, what characterises those web-sites? Ah They are Antisemites. They DO mean Jews.

Now, no need for debate. Sorted!

Disregarding the ravings of house idiots like Flanker and Maven…

Nick, I take on board that Juan Cole has had a past as a respectable Middle Eastern scholar. This, however, puts his actions in a considerably worse light.

Obviously, scholars of all kinds are allowed as much right to political opinions (including opinions with which I totally disagree) and their articulation as anybody else. However, this creates a danger, of which they should be aware, namely that they might be using their scholarly authority in a manner that brings it into disrepute.

Anybody can say that when Ahmedinajad stated that Israel should be wiped from the map, he didn’t really say it, or what he mean is something totally different from the plain, obvious meaning. And when anybody says it, this is taken as part of the cut and thrust of the political debate. But Juan Cole used his authority as a Middle Easter scholar to claim (falsely, as we can understand) that Ahmedinajad’s words have been mistranslated. It is this use of scholarly authority to bolster purely political argument (which in my opinion happens to be false, but all this would have stuck in my craw even had it not been so) which is bringing his scholarship into disrepute.

Hamid,

would it then be more correct to translate Ahmadinejhad’s phrase as:

‘Wipe Israel from the pages of history!’ or ‘Let/May Israel be wiped from the pages of history!’

?

If you could give me the Farsi phrase in transliteration and script, I could get hold of a Farsi grammar and do my own analysis.

Flanker,

as a matter of interest, how do you define ‘Zionist’?

As someone that supports a jewish state in Israel.

I support a secular state there.

“Flanker – Atheists can be Jews. Anti semites of the old school Far Right and the Islamist Far Right hate and hated atheist Jews as much as ultra-Orthodox ones. It is a form of ethnic hatred not opposition to a set of religious principles. ”

If you think he views Jews as a racial group, then why the support for other semites? (palestinians)

Flanker this comment of yours is a proof that you are an ignorant.
There is no semite race, there are only semite languages.
Nobody cares what you support. Israel is a democratic Jewish state, respecting other religions. It is not like Iran, where Bahais are persecuted, not like Saudi Arabia, where Phillipinas who work in the country are imprisoned and expelled because they’ve hold a christian meeting in a private room.

For Muffin to call Maven an idiot – a much more coherent poster than Muffin will ever be – is the height of parody.

Well, Wolfgang Pauli once said of something that “it is not even wrong”. You, Nearly Oxfordian (and one can understand why “nearly”) are not even an idiot.

George Habish supported a ’secular state’ as long as the Jews fucked off somewhere else, yes?

Britain is not a secular state in fact I can think of only France and America that make that a special part of their constitutions. We know Fwankers views there.

Communist states, sorry ‘Peoples Democracies’ do not count as communism is clearly a religion and a pretty murderous and supremacist one too.

It was not just George Habash, “secular state”, exactly like “one-state solution”, is a shorthand to a solution that will see Israeli Jews not just denied their national rights but either exterminated, exiled or enslaved.

I am willing to accept that there are in the West a number of ignorant idiots who really, genuinely believe that, were we only to hold hands and love our neighbour, then all problems will be solved, toxic past will be buried, distrust will disappear, murderous loudmouths will be converted to life of humility and good works (in particular, if we buy them a dinner in New York City) and all will be well. But let us be clear: overwhelming majority of those using the phrases “secular state” or “a one state solution” mean the Final Solution of the Israeli problem.

Antizionism is not Antisemitism?

On Friday, tens of thousands of Iranians marched in Tehran, chanting “Death to Israel,” declaring solidarity with the Palestinians and calling for Jerusalem and Israel to be handed to the Palestinians.
Demonstrators carried placards which read, “Israel will be destroyed, Palestine is Victorious” and “Holy war until victory,” and they torched American and Israeli flags.
The protest follows a fresh verbal attack on Israel by Ahmadinejad.
In an address to the UN General Assembly in New York on Tuesday, he said “the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse and there is no way for it to get out of the cesspool created by itself and its supporters.”
Quds Day was started by the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, founder of the Islamic republic, who called on the world’s Muslims to show solidarity with Palestinians on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan.
A mother of six, Zahra Hedayat, 47, said: “It is important to support Palestinians to show the world that Israel is oppressive, and, God willing, one day Muslims will get Palestine back.”
The demonstration was held under an official slogan: “The Islamic world will not recognise the fake Zionist regime under any circumstances and believes that this cancerous tumour will one day be wiped off the face of the earth.”
Copyright © 2008 Agence France Presse
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080926/wl_mideast_afp/iranisraelmideastpoliticsholocaust&printer=1;_ylt=AhCSwBq8bgZCvbCunlEF10abOrgF

I support letting Israelis decide democratically how they want their state to be. Just like Venezuelans decide for themselves to make Easter a national holiday, eh Fwanker?

As a Jew (yeah those words!) I never felt bad because Easter is one of Argentina’s national holidays. That is what the majority wants, then that is what everybody gets. That is democracy. Usually I added Easter and Pesach days and went for a trip to the south.
I don’t remember no Fwanker from Venezuela histerically demanding that Argentina become completely non-denominational and secular… (which it isn’t, except for Buenos Aires, it is a very religious Catholic country)

Anybody wants to peek what the national holidays in the “secular” state of Venezuela are?
(the table is in English).
http://www.qppstudio.net/diasferiados2008/venezuela.htm

Anything to say, Fwanker? Get your house in order before you sully the name of Israel with your mouth.

Fabian: As far as I am aware, you must be a Catholic to be the President of Argentina, right? Exactly like you can’t be a Catholic to be a British monarch. In Israel the only precondition is that you are a citizen of Israel, over (I seem to recall) 29 years of age. And still, for a reason I can’t fathom (well, I can, but you know what I mean) nobody is talking about establishing an “Argentinian secular state” or a “British secular state”.

Muffin: Until 1994 yes, you had to be a “Catholic Apostolic Roman Christian” (and married) to be President of Argentina (or VicePresident). It was in the Constitution.
That year a new Constitution was approved which removed that precondition.

It is interesting that nobody called Argentina an apartheid state… ever.

BTW, article 2 of Argentina’s new Constitution says that the State supports the Catholic religion.

Jews are kind of cool with that, since what could we do? (if we had a Fwanker movement calling Argentina an apartheid state and threatening boycotts then maybe we could do something, right?)

Evangelist Christians are presently more opposed and vocal against that, since they are growing in numbers, but the State only pays the salaries of Catholic priests and supports the Catholic churches. They want the state to support the priests of every religion.

You know in what country that happens? If you said Israel you are right. Israel’s national budget gives money to every religion. Amazing, right?

RE: For Muffin to call Maven an idiot – a much more coherent poster than Muffin will ever be – is the height of parody.

Right. “(Nisht-a)Maven gets his info from the likes of Sean Hannity (the one-note Rush Limbaugh knock off), consistently spouts Right-wing republican rubbish, and now gets support from the serial abuser on this site. Hardly oxfordian, is it?

In 2002 an argentinean bishop was making 6.000 pesos a month (minum salary 2002: 800 pesos). Courtesy of argentineans citizens of every denomination…

Wipe Argentina from the pages of history!!!!

Achmedinejad said to Larry King: What we’re saying is that throughout the Palestinian territories [i.e., including Israel and the occupied territories], people should gather and determine the type of government they would like to have.

He forgot to add – ‘Just like in Iran’.

Achmedinejad & Larry King

John.
Why did you invent the Arab Christians are for McCain, Muslims are for Obama poll?

Look Tim, I did not invent it! I saw it, can’t remeber where it was posted, and since there are only 10,000 polls in circulation, you’ll just have to forgive me for not being able to retrace it.

You know in what country that happens? If you said Israel you are right. Israel’s national budget gives money to every religion. Amazing, right? FinI

I didn’t know that. You mean you’re paying the salaries of Catholic priests even though they make huge bucks off of all the pilgrims?

Do you all know Obama´s second name is *HUSSEIN*!?
If I would be McCain, I would refer to him as HUSSEIN Obama.
How´s that for a Republican ad?

Do you all know Obama´s second name is *HUSSEIN*!?
If I would be McCain, I would refer to him as HUSSEIN Obama.
How´s that for a Sarah Palin speech?

“I didn’t know that. You mean you’re paying the salaries of Catholic priests even though they make huge bucks off of all the pilgrims?”

I suppose.

BTW, 6000 pesos is a lot of money!

Do you all know Obama´s second name is *HUSSEIN*!?

Yes, we did. And we are all not particularly excited. Did you know that your surname is the same as that of Fred West? What does it prove about you?

‘As someone that supports a jewish state in Israel.’

In other words, Flanker, you define as ‘Zionist’ just about anyone who conducts his or her affairs with regard to Israel as though it were a legitimate state.

That’s a lot of Zionists, in America or elsewhere.

What happened to the ‘miniscule’ list of just 2000 who rule the US and European states and economies against the wishes of the majority?

’sounds like a case of ‘Zionists under the bed’, to me.

Zakhariya: would it then be more correct to translate Ahmadinejhad’s phrase as:

‘Wipe Israel from the pages of history!’ or ‘Let/May Israel be wiped from the pages of history!’

Ahmaqinejad in Farsi: “Isrâil bâyad az safheye ruzegâr mahv šavad.”

word-to-word translation: “Israel must off page history wiped be” IOW “Israel must be wiped off the page(s) of history.”

There is no “let” or “may”. It is clear that this is a genocidal call to action with the imperative “must”.

The meaning of this phrase is unambiguous in Farsi – and remember the context of a sermon to activists or a military parade. To imply that Israel “should wither away” in passive voice would be very different:

“Isrâil az safheye ruzegâr mahv xâhad šod” – “Israel will be wiped off the page(s) of history.”

IOW, Juan Cole is a dishonest red-brown academic liar.

Speaking of Juan Cole Nick writes: However, as I’m sure we’re all aware from his website Informed Comment, he’s been a strident critic of the Iraq war and is avowedly anti-Bush

Strident critic of the Iraq war? Depends on which comments you abrogate or place in terminal abeyance from his embarrassing and duplicitious record Nick.

To whit:

Juan Cole has claimed that he “said repeatedly in 2002 and early 2003″ that “it was a bad idea to invade Iraq.”

However, Cole, before the war (February 11, 2003): “I am an Arabist and happen to know something serious about Baathist Iraq, which paralyzes me from opposing a war for regime change in that country.”

Cole, start of the war (March 19, 2003): “I remain convinced that, for all the concerns one might have about the aftermath, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the murderous Baath regime from power will be worth the sacrifices that are about to be made on all sides.”

Cole, after the war (July 30, 2003): “I refused to come out against the war. I was against the way the war was pursued—the innuendo, the exaggerations, the arrogant unilateralism. But I could not bring myself to be against the removal of that genocidal regime from power.”

And to say he’s avowedly anti-Bush masks the majority of his venom, lies and hyperbole which are far more often and far more avowedly directed against the Likud Party with Bush portrayed as the duped puppet.

Here’s Cole writing about the 9/11 Commission report:

“According to the September 11 Commission report, al-Qaeda conceived 9/11 in some large part as a punishment on the US for supporting Ariel Sharon’s iron fist policies toward the Palestinians. Bin Laden had wanted to move the operation up in response to Sharon’s threatening visit to the Temple Mount, and again in response to the Israeli attack on the Jenin refugee camp, which left 4,000 persons homeless. Khalid Shaikh Muhammad argued in each case that the operation just was not ready.”

Problem is that there’s not a single passage in the 9/11 report mentioning Sharon’s (or Israel’s) policies. Cole just made it up. And in point of fact, the report’s narrative definitively contradicts him. The 9/11 operation could hardly have been “conceived” as a response to U.S. support for Sharon’s “iron fist policies.” It was conceived, its operatives were selected, and it was put in motion, long before Sharon took the helm.

And what of Cole’s claim that Bin Laden wanted to launch the attacks “in response to the Israeli attack on the Jenin refugee camp, which left 4,000 persons homeless”? The Jenin operation took place in April 2002, seven months after 9/11. Apparently, in the bizarre universe of the Colesque, Sharon’s horrid deeds are always at fault for 9/11, even if he committed them after the event. (Hat Tip to Martin Kramer)

I’m with Hamid: Cole is a liar, an idiot, and furthermore has the emotional temperament of a two year old.

vildechaye, do increase your medication, there’s a good boy.

You, Nearly Oxfordian (and one can understand why “nearly”) are not even an idiot.

Clearly, you are one of those thickos who thinks (using the term very loosely) that my nickname has something to do with ‘not getting into Oxford’. How stupid are you really, Muffin? *) Do you genuinely believe that if this were the case, I would be advertising it?
My nickname is a private joke to do with Oxford the city. You did know that Oxford is a city as well as a university? No? Quelle surprise …

*) stupid enough to claim that Ariel college is ‘illegal’, at any rate.

Hamid,

This is very interesting. Could it be the case that “safheye” in the phrase “safheye ruzegâr” subsumes the particle ‘of’, i.e. “page [of] history”?

I ask, because that seems similar to Semitic (and other?) languages.

Thank you, Hamid, that was very informative.

oh very droll….but insubstantial and abusive as most of your comments.

Nearly Oxfordian – yes you are correct and my bad:

“safheye ruzegâr” subsumes the particle. That is, “safhe” stands for “page” and “safheye” means “page of”. The ‘e’ suffix at the end (which has become a ‘ye’ due to being preceeded by a vowel) does stand for the particle “of”.

I have never heard of Juan Cole before reading his article. My almost immediate reaction was – just another virulently anti Israel writer.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Why do people think that he is so important???

Sorry. But persons trying to muddle Achmedinejad’s startling threats against Israel is not necessarily anti semitic. Could well be so but, I would have to see a true obsession with Israel to determine for myself if he was really anti Semitic.

He could be simply ‘lunatic left’. There are plenty on CI(F).

The anti Semites always overlook Israel’s obvious achievements in non military matters like making the desert flower and its stunning contribution to sciences and technology generally.

Thanks, Hamid!

In 2002 an argentinean bishop was making 6.000 pesos a month (minum salary 2002: 800 pesos). Courtesy of argentineans citizens of every denomination…

Wipe Argentina from the pages of history!!!!

Has any Argentinian bishop told his flock not to employ Jews?

In Israel, state-paid Rabbi Dov Lior has issued a fatwa that Jews should not employ Arabs or rent houses to them.

State-paid Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has called for the annihilation of the Palestinians.

State-paid Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu has called for the terrorists’ children to be hanged from trees.

The State-paid Arrangement Yeshivot association of West Bank rabbis has said that the Halakha (Jewish religious law) commands the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians if this helps to save Jews.

State-paid Rabbis David and Yitzchak Batzri (the rabbis who prayed by Ariel Sharon’s hospital bed) have said that Arabs are beasts and asses, a misfortune, a problem, Satan, evil, cruel and the scum of snakes.

Links to all of that available on request.

“Before I continue I must say I don’t dispute I’m an antisemite under the current definition of the word. Of all the peoples in the world, I want to deny the Jews, and only the Jews, the right to self-determination in their ancestral land. To that effect, I have singled out Israel for demonization (again: under the current definition of this word), and I have never written a single word about the plight of the Tibetans in China.”

http://thehasbarabuster.blogspot.com/2008/09/on-shortcomings-of-english-language.html

just another Jew baiting crank, best ignored

‘Has any Argentinian bishop told his flock not to employ Jews?

In Israel, state-paid Rabbi Dov Lior has issued a fatwa that Jews should not employ Arabs or rent houses to them.

State-paid Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has called for the annihilation of the Palestinians.

State-paid Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu has called for the terrorists’ children to be hanged from trees.

The State-paid Arrangement Yeshivot association of West Bank rabbis has said that the Halakha (Jewish religious law) commands the killing of innocent Palestinian civilians if this helps to save Jews.

State-paid Rabbis David and Yitzchak Batzri (the rabbis who prayed by Ariel Sharon’s hospital bed) have said that Arabs are beasts and asses, a misfortune, a problem, Satan, evil, cruel and the scum of snakes.

Links to all of that available on request.’

Have any Jews called for the destruction of Argentina or Argentine Christians? Or blown them up in any shape of form?

Have Argentinian Jews been blown up by some group or other ostensibly because of ‘Zionist crimes’?

‘However, the word antisemite had an earlier meaning which continues to be in use. Many people, especially the younger generations, will be surprised to learn about it, but it’s actually still being used. An antisemite used to be someone who hated the Jews as a whole. Those people would oppose having a Jewish neighbor, or their children marrying Jews. They would try to avoid working with Jews, they would never lend them money (allthough they might take loans from them), and they would support different forms of social and economic discrimination against Jews. Under the proper circumstances (war, invasions, crises, etc.), they would torch synagogues, loot Jewish property and actually kill Jews, or help those who undertook the killings.’

Modern racial antisemitism evolved from earlier Christian (and, arguably, Islamic) varieties, and, before that, from Christian (and, arguably, Islamic) anti-Judaism.

Both Christianity and Islam held Jews to be a group dispossessed of temple, Jerusalem and the land of Israel as a punisment of their rejection of Jesusa and the prophets. To both, for most of their histories, the notion of Jews’ substantially reversing their situation of dispossession, which in turn witnessed to the superiority of Christianity and Islam, was (to use a metaphor in the case of Islam) anathema.

And whereas paleo-antisemitism sought to alienate Jews as non-European or non-Arab ‘Palestinians’ (better, ‘Judeans’) from European Christendom and Islam, and largely succeeded: before 1914 mostly to America, after 1914 mostly to Palestine or what became Israel; ‘neo-antisemitism’ (to coin a neologism) seeks to alienate what may be the largest Jewish community in the world from ‘Palestine’ as ‘non-Palestinians’ or ‘Europeans’.

What both paleo- and neo-antisemitism share in common is a desire to alienate Jews from where they are substantially NOW.

And what is so laughable about your Gypsy-Sikh, Northern India analogy is that, to create both India and Pakistan millions perished and millions more were displaced.

Nevermind the fact that Palestinian Jews had to fight and win a war of survival against Palestinian and other Arab Muslim groups who had both rejected partition and compromise (as in India in 1947), and sought to abort a Jewish state forcibly, accompanied by threats of massacre, dispossession and, arguably, worse.

Excellent, Zkharya.

The Hasbara Buster should give an answer to the brilliant comment of Zkharya.
It is true what he says about some of the rabbis in Israel. But what he does not mention, that Israeli main stream media is documenting all their declarations and do not share the views of those rabbis, on the contrary.
Compare this with murderous antisemitic incitement in the Hamas and in the PA media.

The Hasbara Buster

State-paid Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has called for the annihilation of the Palestinians.

I’m not saying that I don’t agree with the gist of your post BUT, Baba Yusuf get a pension at the moment.

State-paid Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu has called for the terrorists’ children to be hanged from trees.

As I said above, your ‘gist’ is not disagreeable to me BUT could you provide a link for the assertion that Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu has called for the terrorists’ children to be hanged from trees. I am in no way supportive of state subsidies to religious functionaries of any sort and think that their financial support should be on their congregations head. Baba Yusuf has said some outlandish things in the past on all sorts of subjects including picking your nose on the sabbath but I really was not aware of Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu calling for the terrorists’ children to be hanged from trees.

In the newsletter, which was distributed to synagogues around the country, Eliyahu proposes “hanging the children of the terrorist who carried out the attack in the Mercaz Harav yeshiva from a tree.”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/968729.html

The Hasbara Buster should give an answer to the brilliant comment of Zkharya.

I think comments about my posts should be made on my blog. I don’t understand why my blog is being discussed in Harry’s Place, except as an ad-hominem in order to avoid confronting the uncomfortable truths I tell.

Israeli main stream media is documenting all their declarations and do not share the views of those rabbis, on the contrary.

The state of Israel is not represented by its media. It’s represented by its government. And the Israeli government keeps paying rabbi Lior’s salary despite his unabashedly racist comments and fatwas against the Arabs.

Have any Jews called for the destruction of Argentina or Argentine Christians?

If an individual Jew, or a group of Jews, or even a Jewish institution, called for the destruction of Argentina, it would still be wrong for bishops to forbid the hiring of any Jew.

“I don’t understand why my blog is being discussed in Harry’s Place,”

because you admit to being an antisemite

that’s says it all

because you admit to being an antisemite

Modernity, we’re grown ups, and as you perfectly understood, my “admission” was made in the context of a highly ironical post in which I was precisely criticizing the use of the word “antisemite” to describe anti-Zionists.

You don’t take other people’s words out of context. It’s bad manners.

The Hasbara Buster.

you are a well known jew baiting crank, and you admitted that you were an antisemite, anyone that follows your activities will readily agree with that.

now fuck off, you are very boring and we’ve seen your type before.

” ‘Have any Jews called for the destruction of Argentina or Argentine Christians?’

If an individual Jew, or a group of Jews, or even a Jewish institution, called for the destruction of Argentina, it would still be wrong for bishops to forbid the hiring of any Jew.”

The question of whether there are antisemitic bishops in Argentina or not notwithstanding, the answer to the question is no.

The same can hardly be said of some Palestinian or other Arab Muslims (or Christians) with regard to the Jewish state of Israel.

That does not justify the sayings of some rabbis. But, as Karl Pfeiffer and others observed, the Israeli government is not some rabbis.

And as Fabian also observed, the Israeli government continues to fund Christian and Islamic clerics who have said all kinds of objectionable things about Israel, Israeli and other Jews.

‘You don’t take other people’s words out of context. It’s bad manners.’

THB, anything you write, my friend, makes you fair game. As anything I write makes me fair game. When you adopted in irony the label of ‘antisemite’ it was your deliberate intention to offend. You cannot then insist on playing by Queensbury Rules which you consciously flouted.

People who live in glasshouses shouldn’t throw stones.

“If an individual Jew, or a group of Jews, or even a Jewish institution, called for the destruction of Argentina, it would still be wrong for bishops to forbid the hiring of any Jew.”

And note THB’s avoiding answering the question “Have any Jews called for the destruction of Argentina or Argentine Christians? Or blown them up in any shape of form?”, as if there were in fact some ‘if’ about it.

And note his avoiding answering the question that followed:

“Have Argentinian Jews been blown up by some group or other ostensibly because of ‘Zionist crimes’?”

But, as Karl Pfeiffer and others observed, the Israeli government is not some rabbis.

The Israeli government pays the salaries of rabbis and if it doesn’t fire the racist rabbis it becomes complicit with them.

I think comments about my posts should be made on my blog

Like all disgusting vermin of your sort, you don’t seem to understand that you don’t give the orders around here.

Modernity, we’re grown ups

Well, Modernity is

and as you perfectly understood, my “admission” was made in the context of a highly ironical post in which I was precisely criticizing the use of the word “antisemite” to describe anti-Zionists

Dumb vermin like you don’t understand that ‘anti-Zionist’ has been outed long ago as a figleaf used by antisemites. It’s long past it’s sell-by date.

You don’t take other people’s words out of context. It’s bad manners.

I don’t think we need lessons in good manners from disgusting vermin.

yeah, i really think that “dumb-” or “disgusting vermin” adds a lot to the debate. keep on looking for my typos though.

I rarely agree with Nearly Oxfordian but in this instance, his/her comments are spot on:

“Like all disgusting vermin of your sort, you don’t seem to understand that you don’t give the orders around here.”

The Hasbara Buster is rather well known, and has a lot of “issues”

yeah, i really think that “dumb-” or “disgusting vermin” adds a lot to the debate

Not a lot of acumen for an ‘editor’, eh? Those are proper descriptions for his sort.

keep on looking for my typos though.

Since I never commented on your typos, this is further proof that people with your slim grip on reality should not be allowed within a mile of a newspaper.

I am a very little man from Argentina.
I cheated all my life to get where I am.
I tell lies to people, for example that I am an Arab when I am not.
I tell people to come to my blog, because I desperately need attention.
But it matters very little to me.
Cause I am so little and short.

“Hasbara Buster” is using Goebbels tactics.

Yes, the Israeli government is paying the salaries of a bunch of fairly nasty, racist rabbies like Dov Lior or Ovadia Yosef (in the latter’s case it is pension, not salary, but I digress). Well, it is also paying the salaries of the two leaders (both Muslim clergy) of Islamic Movement, a movement that both in word and in deed is committed to the destruction of Israel (and sails as close as possible to the fairly liberal Israeli laws, and sometime beyond) and which occasionally spews out fairly nasty, racist stuff. Toward Jews.

It is a valid point to argue that the Israeli taxpayer should be less generous toward ministers of all religions. This might be a good idea. It is a valid point to argue that anti-racist-incitement laws in Israel should be interpreted and implemented in a far more stringent manner toward racists of all ethnicities and religions. Again, this might be a good idea. But the crux of the matter is that this generosity and this laxity are amazingly ecumenical.

Anybody with a minimum of logic and/or truthfulness would have deduced from this that, while the state in Israel doesn’t choose ministers of religions (all religions), it happens to pay their salary. A Goebbels-like creature, though, is deliberately peddling a half-truth as a total lie.

‘The Israeli government pays the salaries of rabbis and if it doesn’t fire the racist rabbis it becomes complicit with them.’

Then I guess the Israeli government is complicit with the clerics who regularly rant about the evils of Israeli and other Jews in the friday night Al Aqsa sermon, among others.

There are quite a few Anglican priests who express objectionable views, without fear of loss of salary, and they aren’t being regularly threatened, assaulted or bombed.

“Hasbara Buster” is using Goebbels tactics.

Nope. There’s a fundamental difference between the rabbis and the Muslim clergy you mention.

The hateful rabbis hold real power in Israel. For instance, Dov Lior called for ethnically cleansing Israel’s Arabs at a November 27, 2007 conference that was attended by MK Uri Ariel, of the National Union party, which, together with the National Religious Party (they ran on a joint list), holds 9 Knesset seats.

Ovadia Yosef, for his part, is the spiritual leader of Shas, the Sephardic party that holds 12 seats and is part of the governing coalition.

Therefore, the State of Israel’s support for both haters goes far beyond paying their salaries/pensions. They are fully incorporated into mainstream politics. That’s not the case with the unnamed Muslim haters you cite (by the way, I’d like a few links to their misbehavior).

Israel is a nation that has been at war for 60 years: not a few of her citizens, Arab Christians and Muslims included, express strong or objectionable views. In this she is hardly different from Palestinian or other Arab Muslims or Christians.

And there are people in this country who advocate the execution of terrorists. They are entitled to do so.

‘That’s not the case with the unnamed Muslim haters you cite (by the way, I’d like a few links to their misbehavior).’

That’s what MEMRI is for.

‘The hateful rabbis hold real power in Israel. For instance, Dov Lior called for ethnically cleansing Israel’s Arabs at a November 27, 2007 conference that was attended by MK Uri Ariel, of the National Union party, which, together with the National Religious Party (they ran on a joint list), holds 9 Knesset seats.’

Hahahahahahaha.

I think THB is trying to say that Islamic clerics hold no kind of power in the middle east, and never attend political rallies or express objectionable views.

Even Dov Lior is not an MK, nor does he make Israeli government policy.

Re. Shas, its constituency is largely Mizrachi i.e. Israelis of Arab Jewish extraction. They are among those least trusting of Arab Muslims, and among those most ‘racist’ against them. They are so for the very simple reason, among others, that they were Arabs, once, briefly, before enough Arab Muslims decided otherwise.

They are also the kind of people that translate for MEMRI and document Arab antisemitism and anti-Zionism since, obviously, it is matter of great concern to them.

Hmmm, I wonder how many Palestinian Arab Islamic clerics advocate, publicly or privately, the ethnic cleansing of Israeli Jews.

What do you think, THB? None? Some? Many?

re: Disgusting Vermin are accurate descriptions for his sort.

Thank you for making my point, hardly oxfordian. i suppose if you say a human being is “vermin” that makes it so. i should have known that. my mistake. after all, it’s such a persuasive argument.

so be a good little lad and keep on going after my typos but i think i’ll pass on further exchanges with u, as my intelligence level clearly isn’t equal to someone who uses vermin and scum as arguing points. those vermin put-downs have got the better of me. cya. kisses. vc.

I am very little. I am very short.
I have many aliases: “The Hasbara Buster”, “Ibrahim Ibn Yussuf”, “Abraham Ibn Yossed”, because I have no personality.
But if you want to know me…
http://www.2000x.com.ar/Cultura2000x/Cultura1302.html

Does anyone remember that Israel’s attorney general forbade election of Dov Lior to the Supreme Rabbinical Council in the 1980s for extremist statements he made?

‘Israeli Justice Minister Meir Sheetrit also condemned the sermon, saying: “A person of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef’s stature must refrain from acrid remarks such as these.” ‘

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1270038.stm

And, to be fair to rav Yosef, he was speaking only of returning fire no less devestating to that of Palestinians, not Arabs in general.

There’s a fundamental difference between the rabbis and the Muslim clergy you mention.

The hateful rabbis hold real power in Israel.

This revolting creature thinks that Moslem clerics hold no power in the ME.
Yes, Goebbelsian tactics is right.

vildechaye dribbles:

… hardly oxfordian

Another prat with an IQ below room temperature, who still isn’t able to grasp that my screen name has nothing whatsoever to do with academic honours, or indeed with Oxford (or any) university.

i suppose if you say a human being is “vermin” that makes it so. i should have known that. my mistake. after all, it’s such a persuasive argument.

so be a good little lad and keep on going after my typos

What an illterate joke you are. It wasn’t me who criticised your typos, as I have reminded you already. But clearly, you simply can’t understand words of more than one syllable.
Just go back to your Ladybird books, and stop bothering the grown-ups.

They are so for the very simple reason, among others, that they were Arabs

Zkharya, you keep referring to Mizrachi Jews as ‘Arabs’ (albeit in the past tense). That is simply incorrect. No Jew has ever been an Arab. These are two distinct nationalities.

I hate Israel to the point of lying constantly to vilify it and lie about me (I lied that I was an Arab to a Israeli Jewish scholar so he would open a joint Arab/Jewish blog with me), but I qualify for Israeli citizenship under the Law or Return.
And did I tell you that I call myself an antisemite?
I have issues.

They are so for the very simple reason, among others, that they were Arabs, once, briefly, before enough Arab Muslims decided otherwise.

The Little Goebbels “Buster” relies on exactly the same tactics as his predecessor in Berlin: if you repeat a lie enough times, some might believe it.

As to the “unnamed Muslim clerics” on the payroll of Israeli Ministry of Religion, let us start from Sheikh Raed Salah, the leader of the Northern Branch of the Islamic Movement. The Islamic Movement is the Israeli franchise of Muslim Brotherhood (the Palestinian franchise is called “Hamas”, in case Little Goebbels doesn’t care to enlighten you) and they support exactly what the rest of Muslim Brotherhood does. Among other things, it means off with the State of Israel, off with Jews in the Middle East (and perhaps elsewhere, different MB authorities hold different views on that), even off with Palestinian nationhood: it is a Sharia-govern Muslim state from sea to the shining sea. The Islamic Movement isn’t exactly bashful about its views: you can verify all this on zillions of websites. And, incidentally, they have plenty of political power: from the mayorship of Um el-Fahm, the largest Arab town in Israel, to a semi-formal connection with several members of the Knesset. At a guess, Raed Salah has considerably more political influence in Israel than Dov Lior, but less than Ovadia Yosef.

Raed Salah, like most of the leadership of his movement, are Muslim clergy, and as such paid by the Ministry of Religious Affairs. Obviously, they don’t like him, but they have no power to hire or fire him. Exactly as they have no power to hire or fire Dov Leor. In my view, there should be a mechanism to pay neither – and perhaps to exercise stronger legal sanctions toward both. But this is beside the point and not what Little Goebbels was arguing.

This posting was brought to you as a part of a project to decontaminate the Internet from willful lies and distortions of self-confessed anti-Semites.

They are so for the very simple reason, among others, that they were Arabs, once, briefly, before enough Arab Muslims decided otherwise

Complete fantasy, I am afraid. Jews is Jews.

A few “technical” points regarding S.O.Muffin’s comments.

1) Israeli authorities do have the power to suspend rabbis. See:

“We would have expected the rabbi to suspend himself in light of the severe accusations, but he apparently does not intend to do so. Therefore, we are requesting that from the Justice Minister, who has authority to demand his suspension from the disciplinary court[.]“

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=679025

2) Raed Salah was imprisoned by Israel and his freedom of movement is restricted; Dov Lior wasn’t. Although according to you both men enjoy the same freedoms, the State has found ways to ensure that Lior will exercise them, and that Salah won’t. As often happens in Israel, implementation of the rights the different groups theoretically enjoy is the real test.

3) The mayorship of Um el-Fahm is not a position of considerable political power. Um el-Fahm has 45,000 inhabitants, and Arabs number 1.4 M in Israel. Also, it’s not the same having links to the decorative Arab members of the Knesset as being members of the government coalition.

4) Dov Lior has issued a fatwa against employing Arabs or renting houses to them. He has also called for cleansing Israel of Arabs. Raed Salah has never made statements in that line. I challenge you to name a single fatwa by Salah inciting his flock to deny employment to Jews. I also challenge you to point to a single Salah sermon suggesting that Israel should be cleansed of Jews.

That aside, your line of defense is, to put it mildly, disingenuous. You claim that there’s no problem with rabbis inciting hatred against Arabs so long as Muslims can incite hatred against Jews — or, if there’s a problem, it is not one of discrimination against the Arabs.

It’s like claiming that there’s no problem with allowing Catholic priests in Argentina to say that the Jews should be expelled, so long as Jewish rabbis enjoy the right to say that the Catholics should be expelled. When both the majority and the minority are allowed to incite hatred against each other, it’s the majority that overwhelmingly will take advantage of the situation. Also, the majority’s incitement will much more probably lead to violence against the minority than the other way round. You don’t see Arab mobs in Israel attacking Jews, like you see Jewish mobs attacking Arabs.

In sum, you put together a collection of technicalities and carefully worded parallelisms to give the appearance of a symmetrical situation in which both groups can preach hate against each other and it would be better if neither could. You fail to address, however, the uncomfortable truth that in practice it’s the Jews who preach hate against the Arabs, it’s Jews who make pogroms of Arabs, it’s Jews who surround Arabs and beat them, it’s Jewish policemen who kill Arabs in riots.

And, to get to the core of the problem, it’s the Jews who can expell the Arabs from Israel any moment they wish. The right to threaten each other is not an equal-opportunity right when one group can deliver on its threats and the other one can’t.

Muffin/Nearly Oxfordian/Zkharya,

whilst I appreciate that all of you don’t like these horrid allegations to go unanswered, please, consider, NO matter what you say, cranks like “The Hasbara Buster” will twist your words around

it is what they do

there is a certain pathology to Jew baiting and “The Hasbara Buster” has it all, in a while he’ll probably make up stuff about the Talmud, etc

he’s best ignored

That aside, your line of defense is, to put it mildly, disingenuous. You claim that there’s no problem with rabbis inciting hatred against Arabs so long as Muslims can incite hatred against Jews — or, if there’s a problem, it is not one of discrimination against the Arabs.

Total and complete rubbish, Goebbels, at an intellectual level I would have expected from you.

Both Lior and Salah are religious wingnuts and wile racists (in case you don’t understand the concept: self-confessed anti-Semites are wile racists. Rings a bell?). For all I am concerned, anti-racist legislation should apply to both of them equally, whether in Israel or anywhere else. One doesn’t excuse the other and other doesn’t excuse the one, they are both scum (in case you don’t understand the concept, have a look in a mirror).

You said that Israeli government allows rabbis to spew out racist filth, while paying their salary, and hence is responsible for this filth. I argued that the very same government is paying the salaries of Muslim clerics who are openly against the existence of the state, and obviously the Israeli government can’t be responsible for this.

In other words, you used the fact that the Israeli government is paying Lior’s salary and Ovadia’s pension as a “proof” that it supports their views. I disproved it. End of the story.

And endless repetition of a lie, Goebbels, doesn’t make it into truth. Most people reading HP have an IQ of more than 25 and are unlikely to fall for your tactics.

Our readers will realize that repeatedly calling someone Goebbels doesn’t turn him into Goebbels. The Goebbels slur is just a Goebbelian tactic.

Anyway, we’ve come to a point where I have no alternative but to cite hard facts.

1) Rabbi Dov Lior calls for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel:

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3476150,00.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF JEWS FROM ISRAEL.

2) Rabbi Dov Lior issues a fatwa against employing Arabs or renting houses to them:

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3521246,00.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC ISSUED A FATWA AGAINST EMPLOYING JEWS OR RENTING HOUSES TO THEM.

3) Rabbi Eliyahu issues a fatwa against selling or renting apartments to Arabs:

http://www.aad-online.org/2005/e…-10/aad3/ 1.html

DITTO.

4) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu calls for killing the children of a terrorist:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spa…ges/ 968729.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR KILLING THE CHILDREN OF A JEW WHO MURDERED ARABS.

5) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, leader of the influential Sephardic party Shas, calls Palestinians “snakes”:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ WOR…el.holocaust.ap

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED THE JEWS “SNAKES.”

6) The same Rabbi Yosef calls for the annihilation of Arabs in a sermon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl…ast/ 1270038.stm

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ANNIHILATION OF JEWS.

7) A mob of several dozen Jews beats up two Arab teens (video):

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/987638.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM MOB ATTACKED JEWS.

8) Jews launch pogroms against Arabs in Tiberias, Nazareth and Yafo:

http://books.google.com.ar/books?id=TujIXQTKhqMC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=%22pogroms+against+arabs%22&source=web&ots=HhhFtcjaVi&sig=F9sQb7EetABVb9yS_CJsXu8-trE&hl=es&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

NEVER, EVER HAVE ISRAELI MUSLIMS LAUNCHED POGROMS AGAINST JEWS.

8) Jews launch a pogrom on the Jabal Mukkaber neighborhood in Jerusalem, after the place and time of the attack were printed on announcements pasted up all over the city:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/965315.html

DITTO.

These are the results of the hate preached by Jewish rabbis. Since Israel pays their salaries and has the power to suspend them, if it doesn’t it’s complicit with the incitement.

Of course, if Muslims ever attack Jews IN ISRAEL like the Jews attack Muslims IN ISRAEL, it will mean that Muslim clerics incite them to hate, and if the State of Israel keeps paying their salaries it will be complicit also with that. But up to now never in Israel have Muslim mobs attacked Jews, so this is a moot point.

Notice how Muffin claims “Lior and Salah are religious wingnuts and wile racists,” but when pressured to give an actual example, Salah’s racism is watered down to being “openly against the existence of the state” (actually, he wants a non-Zionist state with equal rights for all its citizens). Just not the same as calling for the Jews to be expelled.

Our readers will realize that repeatedly calling someone Goebbels doesn’t turn him into Goebbels. The Goebbels slur is just a Goebbelian tactic.

Anyway, we’ve come to a point where I have no alternative but to cite hard facts.

1) Rabbi Dov Lior calls for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel:

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3476150,00.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF JEWS FROM ISRAEL.

2) Rabbi Dov Lior issues a fatwa against employing Arabs or renting houses to them:

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3521246,00.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC ISSUED A FATWA AGAINST EMPLYING JEWS.

3) Rabbi Eliyahu issues a fatwa against selling or renting apartments to Arabs:

http://www.aad-online.org/2005/e…-10/aad3/ 1.html

DITTO.

4) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu calls for killing the children of a terrorist:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spa…ges/ 968729.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR KILLING THE CHILDREN OF A JEW WHO MURDERED ARABS.

5) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, leader of the influential Sephardic party Shas, calls Palestinians “snakes”:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ WOR…el.holocaust.ap

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED THE JEWS “SNAKES.”

6) The same Rabbi Yosef calls for the annihilation of Arabs in a sermon:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middl…ast/ 1270038.stm

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ANNIHILATION OF JEWS.

7) A mob of several dozen Jews beats up two Arab teens (video):

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/987638.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM MOB ATTACKED JEWS.

8) Jews launch pogroms against Arabs in Tiberias, Nazareth and Yafo:

http://books.google.com.ar/books?id=TujIXQTKhqMC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=%22pogroms+against+arabs%22&source=web&ots=HhhFtcjaVi&sig=F9sQb7EetABVb9yS_CJsXu8-trE&hl=es&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result

NEVER, EVER HAVE ISRAELI MUSLIMS LAUNCHED POGROMS AGAINST JEWS.

8) Jews launch a pogrom on the Jabal Mukkaber neighborhood in Jerusalem, after the place and time of the attack were printed on announcements pasted up all over the city:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/965315.html

DITTO.

These are the results of the hate preached by Jewish rabbis. Since Israel pays their salaries and has the power to suspend them, if it doesn’t it’s complicit with the incitement.

Of course, if Muslims ever attack Jews IN ISRAEL like the Jews attack Muslims IN ISRAEL, it will mean that Muslim clerics incite them to hate, and if the State of Israel keeps paying their salaries it will be complicit also with that. But up to now never in Israel have Muslim mobs attacked Jews, so this is a moot point.

Notice how Muffin claims “Lior and Salah are religious wingnuts and wile racists,” but when pressured to give an actual example, Salah’s racism is watered down to being “openly against the existence of the state” (actually, he wants a non-Zionist state with equal rights for all its citizens). Just not the same as calling for the Jews to be expelled.

Comment.

Our readers will realize that repeatedly calling someone Goebbels doesn’t turn him into Goebbels. The Goebbels slur is just a Goebbelian tactic.

Anyway, we’ve come to a point where I have no alternative but to cite hard facts. Links to all assertions available on request.

1) Rabbi Dov Lior calls for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF JEWS FROM ISRAEL.

2) Rabbi Dov Lior issued a fatwa against employing Arabs or renting houses to them.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC ISSUED A FATWA AGAINST EMPLYING JEWS.

3) Rabbi Eliyahu issued a fatwa against selling or renting apartments to Arabs.
DITTO.

4) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu calls for killing the children of a terrorist.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR KILLING THE CHILDREN OF A JEW WHO MURDERED ARABS.

5) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, leader of the influential Sephardic party Shas, called Palestinians “snakes”.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED THE JEWS “SNAKES.”

6) The same Rabbi Yosef calls for the annihilation of Arabs in a sermon.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ANNIHILATION OF JEWS.

7) A mob of several dozen Jews beats up two Arab teens (video):

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/987638.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM MOB ATTACKED JEWS.

8) Jews launched pogroms against Arabs in Tiberias, Nazareth and Yafo.
NEVER, EVER HAVE ISRAELI MUSLIMS LAUNCHED POGROMS AGAINST JEWS.

8) Jews launched a pogrom on the Jabal Mukkaber neighborhood in Jerusalem, after the place and time of the attack were printed on announcements pasted up all over the city.
DITTO.

These are the results of the hate preached by Jewish rabbis. Since Israel pays their salaries and has the power to suspend them, if it doesn’t it’s complicit with the incitement.

Of course, if Muslims ever attack Jews IN ISRAEL like the Jews attack Muslims IN ISRAEL, it will mean that Muslim clerics incite them to hate, and if the State of Israel keeps paying their salaries it will be complicit also with that. But up to now never in Israel have Muslim mobs attacked Jews, so this is a moot point.

Notice how Muffin claims “Lior and Salah are religious wingnuts and wile racists,” but when pressured to give an actual example, Salah’s racism is watered down to being “openly against the existence of the state” (actually, he wants a non-Zionist state with equal rights for all its citizens). Just not the same as calling for the Jews to be expelled.

er, what did I say?

“Jews launched a pogrom on the Jabal Mukkaber neighborhood in Jerusalem…”

I suppose that “The Hasbara Buster” will probably start talking about how Jews poison wells shortly?

“1) Rabbi Dov Lior calls for the ethnic cleansing of Arabs from Israel.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF JEWS FROM ISRAEL.’

Has he? Where? When?

“2) Rabbi Dov Lior issued a fatwa against employing Arabs or renting houses to them.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC ISSUED A FATWA AGAINST EMPLYING JEWS.”

The issue of Israeli Arabs employing Jews does not often arise. I doubt they favour it, as a rule.

But plenty of Palestinian have, when it was an issue.

“3) Rabbi Eliyahu issued a fatwa against selling or renting apartments to Arabs.
DITTO.”

I doubt Israeli Arabs are especially keen to sell or rent property to Jews. There is often a death threat attached.

Palestinians who sell property to Jews are routinely murdered.

“4) Rabbi Shmuel Eliyahu calls for killing the children of a terrorist.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR KILLING THE CHILDREN OF A JEW WHO MURDERED ARABS.”

Actually, we do not know what Israeli Muslim clerics say among themselves. The state does not monitor them. They are free to say in private pretty much as they please.

But plenty of Palestinian have.

“5) Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, leader of the influential Sephardic party Shas, called Palestinians “snakes”.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED THE JEWS “SNAKES.””

Hahahahah. Right. Never, not even in private to other Israeli Arabs. Which would be strange given they said that kind of thing fairly freely before Israel existed.

But plenty of Palestinian have.

“6) The same Rabbi Yosef calls for the annihilation of Arabs in a sermon.
NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ANNIHILATION OF JEWS.”

How would you know? Their sermons are not monitored by the state. What they say in private is not monitored by the state.

But plenty of Palestinian have.

And Yosef was referring to terrorists.

“7) A mob of several dozen Jews beats up two Arab teens (video):

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/987638.html

NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM MOB ATTACKED JEWS.”

But Israeli Arab Muslims have attacked Jews. It happened only recently.

But Palestinian have.

“8) Jews launched pogroms against Arabs in Tiberias, Nazareth and Yafo.
NEVER, EVER HAVE ISRAELI MUSLIMS LAUNCHED POGROMS AGAINST JEWS.”"

But Israeli Arab Muslims have attacked Jews. It happened only recently.

But Palestinian have.

In actual fact, we do not know what some Israeli Muslim clerics have said in private.

I saw an Israeli Arab film called Divine Intervention. There was a fair bit of killing of Israeli Jews in that.

None of this justifies Israeli Jewish abuse, assault or murder of Israeli Arab Muslims or Christians.

But it is interesting that THB is holding Israeli Jews to higher standards than Palestinian Arab Muslims or Christians.

“NEVER, EVER, HAS AN ISRAELI MUSLIM CLERIC CALLED FOR THE ETHNIC CLEANSING OF JEWS FROM ISRAEL.’”

You mean no Israeli Muslim cleric has ever expressed such a wish, in private, even among themselves? Never? Ever?

But plenty of Palestinian have.

Zkharya,

can’t you understand “The Hasbara Buster’s” game?

he’s baiting you

he wants you to say nasty things about Arabs and Palestinians

“The Hasbara Buster” wants to de-humanise Jews by getting you to attack Arabs and Palestinians, in response to his baiting

don’t let him get to you, that’s what he wants

he’s a a Jew hating crank, a piss taker, not serious, a wind up merchant, a gobshite

so don’t give him the satisfaction of an answer or you play into his hands.

Please.

Raed Salah, the Head of the Islamic Movement is not in jail for his expressed comments, like the Argentinian Goebbels insinuates, but because he has financial links with the Hamas -a terrorist group- and he is being investigated for this.

Goebbels also says that ruling Umm el Fahm is no power. Well, Goebbels discards the data he doesn’t like.

Finally, Goebbels say: “You don’t see Arab mobs in Israel attacking Jews, like you see Jewish mobs attacking Arabs.”

Actually, during the second Intifada, Arab mobs from Umm el Fahm and other places in the Galileee attacked Israeli civilian cars with stones and killled one truck driver. No “Jew mob” ever entered Umm el Fahm to do a Pogrom in retaliation, nor Ramle, nor Lod, Nor Nazareth, etc.

Alberto José Miyara, alias Goebbels from Argentina lies all the time.

Nearly Oxfordian,

Some WERE Arabs, at least insofar as that term has cultural meaning: Arabic-speaking subjects of European protectorates that did not extend European citizenship to them (Tunisia, Mozabite Jews in Algerian Sahara until 1962, Morocco), so “Arab” in citizenship, some native speakers of Arabic, “for whom even the Siddur had to be translated.” (Memmi). It is the bane of the Arab world that, for dhimmis of all stripes, cultural “Uruba” has never weighed as much for citizenship as Islamic religious identity, and indeed Mozabite Jews received French citizenship late because Algeria (”Arabic is my language, Islam my religion and Algeria my country”) would have left them stateless, i.e. dhimmis once again. I only have in-depth knowledge of the Maghreb, but at least culturally some Arabic-speaking Jews (as opposed to Berber-speaking Jews) were Arabs, and as far as France was concerned, citizenship.

I meant that with the rise of Arab nationalism Arab Jews were classified, as Arabs by nation. Of course that was not necessarily consistent with how they were treated. But that was the theory.

I meant that with the rise of Arab nationalism Arab Jews were classified as Arabs by nation. Of course that was not necessarily consistent with how they were treated. But that was the theory.

Most of you are idiots. Why would Ahmadinejad (a raving lunatic, yes, but one that has zero control over Iran’s military apparatus) threaten to “wipe Israel off the map”…the only state in the region with the military might to wipe any nation off the map (with their illegal nuclear arsenal)! It makes no political sense whatsoever!

Admittedly, I am no Farsi expert, but I believe the proper translation was “Zionism will be wiped from the pages of time,” since, as professor Cole notes, the former idiom does not exist in Farsi. When we spoke of eradicating Nazism, were we talking about exterminating the Germans? Was combatting Communism ever conflated with eliminating the Russians?

Wake up people!