Harry’s Place

…or the Fonz jumped the shark

I think Fonzie jumped the shark when Blair left the show.

hahaha

I might put that up!

More importantly - what about Derek Draper? Has anyone got any good stories about him…

What, they thought John Hutton was not quite right wing enough?

And Margaret Beckett’s coming back as well! Was Frank Dobson not available?

Well I’m quite aware that this comment is likely to be a welcome as pork pie in synagogue, but I’m glad Mandelson’s back. He was the victim of two of the most vicious media witch-hunts in recent political memory. For Mandelson to have been forced to resign twice as a result of accusations that were eventually shown to be groundless on both occasions, is something which should greatly concern anyone who claims to be a friend of democratic politics.

That’s “a pork pie in a synagogue” in English.

A sad day indeed.

Brown has the perfect opportunity to turn away from the worse excesses of New Labour (slavish devotion to the city and corporate power, antipathy to traditional labour institutions and the elevation of spin over policy), instead he brings back the great spinmeister-in-chief and the lapdog of big business, the city and corporate giants.

Brown is taking New Labour love of Clinton’s strategy of triangulation to its logical conclusion, he’s marching the party to the right of Conservatives and making a mockery of his claim that his priority is the welfare of the working family.

You have a point regarding the passport business but are you claiming he didn’t get a loan from Geoffrey Robinson and not disclose it?

The Labour death march to oblivion is turning into a jog.

There is a well known saying about deckchairs and the Titanic. I can’t quite remember how it goes.

This move has probably cheered Sarkozy up at least.

And just when you thought George Osbourne was the most smug man in politics.

Mandelson is not liked by the public, but he is a formidable operator and someone you’d want on your side. I always liked Beckett, although she wasn’t a great foreign secretary. She is a unifying force, a good communicator, highly experienced and clever. Bringing them into the government has more to do with rallying the parliamentary party and bringing in fresh ideas than winning over public support with popular figures, which they clearly are not.

I agree with Brownie–I mean, at least he’s for poverty-reducing globalisation.

On a sort of related note, have you noticed how the reactionary left–right from an insipid centrist like Harris to “Strelnikov” Milne–have suddeny started to criticise the Tories? It just seems a bit of a sharp about-face after all these years.

Brown will appoint Tony Blair deputy prime minister then resign, clearing the way for: “Blair II - This Time, No Scotsmen”.

bringing in fresh ideas

Is that a joke? In what possible sense can digging up these relics from Labour’s past be described as ‘fresh ideas’?

Beckett oversaw the farm payments fiasco when she was at DEFRA - one of the biggest examples of government incompetence in a long time.

Yes, Mandelson is a formidable operator but I hardly think he is popular within the Labour party so if the intention is to rally the party I’m not sure it will work.

You have a point regarding the passport business but are you claiming he didn’t get a loan from Geoffrey Robinson and not disclose it?

The central allegation there was that Mandelson was soft-pedalling on the DTI investigation into Robinson. This was b/s, not least becuase no-one else knew about the loan and therefore it couldn’t, by definition, influence thework of the DTI investigators. Mandelson himself was not involved.

Moreoever, it is entirely arguable that the loan needed to be declared at all. This was a prviate arrangement between long-term friends and the only party that needed to know was the building society, who also gave Mandelson a clean bill of health. Even if you accept the loan should have been declared, members are making changes to their declarations of interest all the time, sometimes in much more dubious circumstances and avoiding having to pay any penalty at all, let alone the ultimate penalty.

But then if the right-wing rags and their illiterate hacks who pass for journos want their man - and their man happens to be a queer Jew Labour spin doctor - they’ll often get their man.

Brownie you are right that Mandelson shouldn’t have been forced to resign of either occasion. However its ludicrous to suggest that he was hounded out by right wing rags because he’s gay or Jewish. Remember these are the same right wing rags that New Labour so cravenly and successfully courted.

Are you saying being gay and Jewish helps?

I didn’t even know he was Jewish.

“Has anyone got any good stories about him…”

Many

I’m not sure he was actually accused of soft-peddaling on the DTI investigation or improperly influencing it in any way. The point as I remember it was that the transaction between him and Robinson, even if it was a private one, meant there could be a perceived conflict of interest and so he should have declared it in order to avoid any appearance of impropriety. Maybe it should not have been a resigning issue but it was a bad lack of judgement.

Andrew, I’m aware of how Mandelson self-describes, but he’s certainly of Jewsih extraction and he’s called Peter Benjamin Mandelson. He’s as Jewish as he needs to be.

I never claimed that he was pursued becuase he was Jewish and gay, but that being Jewsh and gay probably helped to crystalize the antipathy towards him. Do you recall the coverage devoted to his private life? The sneering and innuendo? I do.

He isn’t Jewish. He has said he is not Jewish. I think his father has some Jewish heritage.

“Do you recall the coverage devoted to his private life? The sneering and innuendo? I do.”

I also remember that The Sun ran a phone poll of readers asking whether it was acceptable for a government minister to be gay and the result was over 90% of Sun readers said it didn’t matter. As a result, The Sun dropped its homophobic campaign against him.

Maybe it should not have been a resigning issue but it was a bad lack of judgement

Whatever our difference of emphasis so far as the Robinson issue is concerned, you are pretty close to accepting that a minister who was forced to resign twice should not in fact have been forced to resign even once.

This is an uttererly appalling decision and shows just how arrogant New Labour have become. To bring in a figure that is so divisive not only within the party but in the country as a whole. Mandleson is the posterboy for all that is wrong with NL, the spin, the corruption, the fingerpointing petty oppression etc etc. As someone on another Left board said ‘its Death Race 2010 for new labour’.

He isn’t Jewish.

No-one told Tam Dalyell.

Brownie, yes I do and I agree it wasn’t pleasant. I think that it was because he kept his sexuality secret (which he was perfectly entitled to do of course so that doesn’t make it ok). Chris Smith never suffered that kind of thing as far as I remember.

I only mentioned about him being Jewish because I had honestly never heard it mentioned before (or if I had I’ve forgotten).

Whatever our difference of emphasis so far as the Robinson issue is concerned, you are pretty close to accepting that a minister who was forced to resign twice should not in fact have been forced to resign even once.

The second time, certainly not. The first time, I think he didn’t have to resign but it was probably the right decision to do so.

I think that it was because he kept his sexuality secret

I know what you’re saying and I’m not meaning to get at you, but what in fact people mean when they claim a homosexual MP has kept his sexuality secret is that he hasn’t talked publicly about who he’s shagging, which of course heterosexual MPs do all the time….

….except they don’t, of course, and except a failure by heterosexual public figures to make such a declaration does not invite suggestions they are keeping their sexuality secret.

On the other hand, what did an over-anxious Mandelson have to fear, exactly? It’s not as if the best-selling newspaper in the coutnry was going to run a poll asking if homosexuality compromises your ability to be in government.

D’oh!

but what in fact people mean when they claim a homosexual MP has kept his sexuality secret is that he hasn’t talked publicly about who he’s shagging, which of course heterosexual MPs do all the time…

Yes, point taken. I should have said “private” rather than “secret”.

The questions should not be whether or not Mandelson resignations were justified or not, but rather if Brown is sending the right message bringing him into his cabinet.

Apparently this thread just featured on Sky News.

Hello Sky News!

Well I’m quite aware that this comment is likely to be a welcome as pork pie in synagogue, but I’m glad Mandelson’s back.

Contrarianism?

From Brownie?

What next? Hubris and managerial incompetence from the former chancellor temporarily inhabiting Number 10?

Not fair.

After cheering the demise of Ian Blair, they bring back…Mandelson.

That is going to help Labour how?

Brownie
3 October 2008, 12:53 pm

“He isn’t Jewish.”

No-one told Tam Dalyell.

Priceless!

“After cheering the demise of Ian Blair, they bring back…Mandelson.

That is going to help Labour how?”

With Ian Blair gone Gordon Brown was the most hated man in public office, now he isn’t.

I think it’s a great move.

I love the way Mandelson handles the media. Remember that time he dilberately walked into a camera man? Beautiful.

Probably the first case ever of a Rat actually joining a Sinking Ship.

I love seeing the Labour-ites trying to convince themselves that bringing Mandelson back is a masterstroke. It is really funny.

I would have recommended that Brown do it, so I don’t need convincing.

Jim Murphy’s a decent, and competent chap.

As for the rest. No comment.

Mandelson’s grandfather at least did some good in his day

David T,

Can’t you start a thread about Derek Draper? You can recount some of the stories.

I also remember that The Sun ran a phone poll of readers asking whether it was acceptable for a government minister to be gay and the result was over 90% of Sun readers said it didn’t matter.

I bet Mandy had a big phone bill that month.

Um I quite like Peter Mandelson; most of his utterances seem to make sense, to me he has been one of the more cogent voices of New Labour…and I know he was instrumental in its genesis; that is moving it sharply to the right on economics and binning the absurd Kinnockesque defense policy and making Labour once more electable.

The phase ”Old Boy Network”, Come’s to mind.

The ghastly Blair years are being restored, it seems. After Mandelson, such other eye-wateringly undistinguished figures as Alastair Campbell, Jonathan Powell, Carole Caplin, Michael Levy, even Blair himself…

Say it ain’t so, Gordon.

I see that the Department to be headed by Mandy still has its ultra-capitalist name, and presumably also brief, even now. Bring back the DTI.

And we should all apply, not only for Metropolitan Police Commissioner, but now also for EU Trade Commissioner, when those jobs are advertised. Or have I missed something?

Alastair Campbell ? If only !

Come back all is forgiven !

GW

Actually, I thought that when Hutton and Purnell were failing to back Brown last month. Have they never done anything bad in their lives? So why isn’t it all over the front pages of the Times, the Telegraph, the Mail and the Sun? Time was when it would have been.

“Well I’m quite aware that this comment is likely to be a welcome as pork pie in synagogue, but I’m glad Mandelson’s back.”

Ha ha! I’m with Brownie and Mike. Good job, Gord. But I am also not convinced doctrinaire party members on the right like our good selves are necessarily the people who need convincing…

“This is an extraordinary step backwards into the worst elements of the Blair era, to reinstate possibly the most divisive figure in Labour’s recent history.” - John McDonnell

Mwwuuuhhhh hahahahahahhhaaaaaahhaa! In your face, Johnie-boy!!

Ahem. I do like a bit of sage political commentary. My own tuppence-worth is that the ressurrection of this potent symbol of the Blair era will bring the masses flocking back to the essential sense and decency of our cause. All we need now is for Blair to return from over the water and then an unprecedented fourth term will be within our grasp!!!!

What next? Hubris and managerial incompetence from the former chancellor temporarily inhabiting Number 10?

…or a dollop of sneering cynicism from dirigible?

;-)

Sort of like, “we’ve been on a break and I was sort of flirting with this guy called Dave, but we realised how much we missed each other and now I’ve decided to stick with Tone. Till death do us part”

I’m sure there was a fake party election broadcast on much the same theme.

Do you think we could turn Tony into a cyborg and have him be PM forever…?

Sorry. I haven’t taken my pills today. I’m in a strangely facetious mood.

But I still like Mandy.

When I heard this news my first thought was that Brown is serious about winning again.

Ben

I do like a bit of sage political commentary. My own tuppence-worth is that the ressurrection of this potent symbol of the Blair era will bring the masses flocking back to the essential sense and decency of our cause. All we need now is for Blair to return from over the water and then an unprecedented fourth term will be within our grasp!!!!

Possibly, just a hint, of wishful thinking there!

Good to see a few Jurassic Kosher Socialist types appear - by way of a little cabaret - out of the monocotyledons.

One of the creepiest politicians operating today….an Eminence Grise to the core.

Screw Mandelson (expecially if you’re a Brazilian on a dubious student visa) the real news is the creation of a “climate secretary” and the elevation of Ed Millipede to that role. Two fucking Millipedes in the cabinet are worth more comment than one Mandy out of the closet.

Now Ed “Chocolate Salty” Balls. Did he keep his job or can I now legally burn the facist cunt at the stake?

Does anybody still need proof that we are ‘governed’ by a PM who is a complete lunatic? Who is a useless waste of space disconnected from reality, who has nil grasp of the fact that this makes him even more of a complete laughing-stock than he has been already?

I’m glad Mandelson’s back. He was the victim of two of the most vicious media witch-hunts in recent political memory

You lost it completely, mate. This disgusting crook should not be allowed to run a local council’s parks department in a sane country.

Probably the first case ever of a Rat actually joining a Sinking Ship

;-))))

And also Ross - quite true!

I never claimed that he was pursued becuase he was Jewish and gay, but that being Jewsh and gay probably helped to crystalize the antipathy towards him.

Not strong on logic, are you? If you are saying it ‘crystalised’ the antipathy, then that’s what he was pursued for.
Being Jewish and gay had exactly nil to do with any of it. There have been plenty of Jews and gays in government and they were not detested; Mandelson is simply a detestable person.

He is as Jewish ‘as he needs be’? How Jewish does he ‘need’ to be, pray? And what does this nonsense actually mean?
You can be called Benjamin David Aaron Greenberg - it still doesn’t make you one whit a Jew.

Dan:
Mandelson is not liked by the public, but he is a formidable operator and someone you’d want on your side.

In the private office, perhaps. But he should never have been a Cabinet Minister. Like John Reid and Charles Clarke, he’s a good strategist, an excellent attack dog and a consumate yes-man - and none of these make for good Cabinet government.

I also remember that The Sun ran a phone poll of readers asking whether it was acceptable for a government minister to be gay and the result was over 90% of Sun readers said it didn’t matter. As a result, The Sun dropped its homophobic campaign against him.

IIRC, that wasn’t related to a specifically Mandelson-centric story - the story that was polled and then dropped, was the Sun’s whole “Pink Mafia takes over government” thing, wasn’t it?

On balance, the only positive side to Mandelson’s return that I can think of, is that at least he isn’t Alan Milburn.

On the bad side… OK, put the (entirely righteous) personal animosity against Mandelson to one side. Is it really acceptable, particularly in the midst of a global recession and a brewing economic crisis worse than anything since at least 1931, to appoint a peer rather than an MP to the Trade brief? He won’t be able answerng questions in the Commons, meaning that his department will be at one remove from democratic accountability. Apart from the Foreign Office (and such appointments were always combined with a sort of Deputy FS in the Commons), the last time a peer was appointed to such an important ministerial brief was, what, under Churchill, Macmillan maybe? And even then, the question that dominated was: How could this minister, how could his department, be held to account when he was safely ensconced in the Lords and shielded from direct interrogation by the Commons?

Given how hard the government worked to carve out the post of Justice Secretary because of the feeling that there was a democratic deficit in legal matters being overseen by a member of the Lords, this move looks utterly bizarre. And in combination with Mandelson’s background, as a member of the Prawn Cocktail Offensive and one of the architects of the government’s light-touch approach to regulation of the financial sector, it makes it clear that Brown hasn’t learnt anything from the credit crisis and has no fucking idea how to get out of it, or even how to stop things from getting worse. I guess Brown is determined to go out with the bang of a cosmic-scale collapse rather than the whimper of, like Callaghan, setting things right on the economy only to see the Tories win anyway.

“You lost it completely, mate. This disgusting crook should not be allowed to run a local council’s parks department in a sane country.”

I think you’re being a bit harsh. He was only an apprentice crook when he was last in the Cabinet. He’s now been in the European Commission learning from the best, and I have no doubt he’ll be a much better crook this time around. Give the guy a chance, Nearly. You’re just such a perfectionist.

“Two fucking Millipedes in the cabinet are worth more comment than one Mandy out of the closet.”

This was actually a pretty good one. Better than the usual raving zanulab-stealing-all-my-money-and-spending-it-on-15-speed-cameras-on-every-street-whilst-our-historic-liberties-are-pissed-up-the-wall-by-socialist-diktat fayre. How long’d it take ya to craft that one up?

Whose writing is the greater sign of a nutter? Ben or Nearly Oxfordian’s?

Yours, tosser.

Your first comment, Ben, is reasonable enough: he is a bigger crook now than before he went to the EU. I can’t fault that statement.

The second, I am afraid, is nuttier than a fruitcake. ZanuLab have been stealing our money, have wasted it on self-glorification, and have destroyed many of our civil liberties. You only need to open your eyes.

Mandelson is not liked by the public, but he is a formidable operator and someone you’d want on your side.

That would apply to any number of crooks. Doesn’t mean that he should be in the cabinet.

Not strong on logic, are you? If you are saying it ‘crystalised’ the antipathy, then that’s what he was pursued for.

Clearly, I’m stronger on logic than you are on English comprehension, you absolute fucking moron.

Given what we know of their mutual antipathy, Brown must have brought Mandelson back as a last throw of the dice. Either that or the wish to put the blame for Labour’s forthcoming annihilation at the polls on the shoulders of the Blairites as well as those of his own mob. And unless Mandelson still has dreams of reaching the top job, he must have been offered a pretty attractive package to leave Brussels.

Which brings me to the EU. Until now, British commissioners have been allowed to serve out their term in office, even when appointed by the other party. That is now at an end. Expect the next British commissioner to be summarily dismissed on the arrival of a Tory administration.

And another thing. This last couple of weeks have been some of the most momentous in the world economy for a generation. As Trade Commissioner for the world’s largest trading bloc, you would think Mandelson would have been pretty busy. What was he doing? Sorting out his personal future with a member-state administration on the ropes. It rather tells you where his priorities lie. I’m sure his eye will be on the ball every bit as much in Westminster as it was in Brussels.

I met Mandelson about 15 years ago at a LibDem organise youth and student day, at which he was a guest speaker (he had a moustache at the time). I liked the guy - very personable and willing to speak with us sprogs. I remember going outside the venue - Westminster central hall - and being confronted by Mo Mowlam who asked us “what’s going on in there any why are you wearing those name badges?” I replied that we’d just met Mandelson. She giggled and said in a sarcastic tone: “Oh Peter, you met Peter? Lovely Peter.” Then she chatted with us a bit, but obviously found Mandleson quite amusing. Look at what transpired - she was replaced by him as NI Secretary and now, very sadly, she is dead. I still like both of them. In fact, I subsequently met a couple of people who worked very close to Mandelson who describe him as sensitive, warm, honest and very loyal, which goes against his public imagine as a heartless vain bastard. I tend to think everyone is good on the inside, so I take the position that he is misunderstood.

… very loyal, which goes against his public image as a heartless vain bastard … I take the position that he is misunderstood.

Hasan’s post pretty much demolishes this fantasy.

Brownie, making up fancy but meaningless sentences about ‘crystalisation’ doesn’t make you any less ignorant and deranged.

Well my understanding was that ANY loan to buy a house should have been declared to the building society when he sought a mortgage, and it was not, so I fail to see how he was “cleared” on that. But what the heck MPs have taken to feather bedding their nests considerably more at our expense since then.

No what I think is interesting is that it shows Brown has abandoned all hope of “triangulating” policy to pull in the middle class right leaning vote, and is now just hoping to cling onto floating Labour voters. (I assume the Prince of Darkness is back to advise on electoral strategy by the way).

I said to Mr Ben when I saw it announced, that the appointment was a gift to the Daily Mail and sure enough, Mr Ben came in with the morning papers (not including the DM by the way we don’t buy it) saying its headline was shrieking about Mandelson. I imagine they must be rubbing their hands and have a team already assigned to dog him every step of the way.

Mandelson’s problem is of course that he is super arrogant and has made a lot of enemies already, not just in the right wing press, but among left wing Labour MPs and the various civil servants and functionnaries who had to deal with him. And of course Brown actually hates him.

Mandelson is also super touchy - I am sure there are journalists out there who will seek to goad him. I think Brown would have been better advised to give him a back room job. There are some people who may be effective operators but unpleasant individuals and in their manner and methods good people whose help you also need. Mandy is surely one of the form.

Maybe Mandy held out for a cabinet post as the price of electoral advice. If so Brown really must be desperate.

PS Agree about Margaret Beckett at DEFRA by the way. Totally incompetent should never have neen allowed back in the cabinet.

There are some people who may be effective operators but unpleasant individuals and in their manner and methods ANTAGONISE good people whose help you also need. Mandy is surely one of the formER.

Sorry:-) a couple of corrections to my last para about Mandy above.

Nearly on Brownie:

“…doesn’t make you any less ignorant and deranged.”

Bwa ha ha! You couldn’t make it up. The lack of self-awareness must require a truly superhuman effort to maintain. I salute Mr Oxfordian.

Ben, have you ever posted anything here that is of the slightest value to an average drunk cockroach?

Mrs Ben:
Quite so. Mandelson + Becket are a sign of stupendous desperation. Only an idiot like McOneEye can think that these two has-beens - one an expert in pissing people off with his arrogance and dishonesty, and the other an incompetent jerk mostly remembered for plundering the public coffers by having the tax-payer pay for her husband’s holidays - can possibly help him out of the 2-mile hole he has dug for himself.

“McOneEye”

I rest my case, m’lud.

Latest poll in the aftermath of the Tory conference has Labour not slipping at all and staying above 30. Which is very bad, but it isn’t actually as bad as the Tories did in the run-up to 1997. All interesting stuff. I wouldn’t be betting on a Cameron landslide at this point, myself. Although I would be surprised were he not to be the next PM. Can we have our own Schroeder moment?

To the idiot Ben:
I refer you to the comment I made earlier, jerk.

You are a bit of a gibbering, ignorant blowhard N.O.

To be fair.

Well my understanding was that ANY loan to buy a house should have been declared to the building society when he so