Harry’s Place

Appalling, Karl. I was in Budapest last year and a local acquaintance filled me in on the local fascists. Not a pleasant situation.

My co delegate at the UNHRC in Geneva earlier this year was a young Jewish lawyer from Budapest. She was trying to explain to me that these neo nazi groups had been declared legal by the courts so that no one could reign in their activities now. I have to say I did not grasp this concept and wondered if it was the language barrier.

Already about 4 years ago Jews I spoke to in Budapest had misgivings about the relative prominence given in the Terror museum to Nazi crimes and crimes of the Communist era, with an emphasis on the latter.

I have never understood anti-Semitism, where it comes from, why it so excites anyone, and what they think they can achieve. Such people are anti-intellectual, retrograde and scary. But then, so are these black-hooded guys. Would you be as quick to condemn them? Perhaps we should put them together, like black and red ants.

In Hungary black clad extreme right wing militias can march in cities and villages. One of them threw a Molotov-cocktail on the house of a Roma family. This incident was – as far as I am informed – not published outside Hungary.

You mean the arson attack on Democratic Alliance of Hungarian Gypsies deputy chairman Ernő Botos’s house in Tiszaroff. It was not reported in the West, although the information has been there on the Internet all along.

When I say it was not reported in the West I include Harry’s Place and Engage, and I include Karl Pfeiffer.

Which begs the question: why do you think that some hate crimes are more widely reported on than others? It may not be that certain minority groups are being singled out for reporting, to the detriment of other groups? Is that fair?

UPDATE

Tomcat has responded to the allegations here. He claims that he was not involved in the incident, and that the group responsible for the assault was an animal rights organization. They were protesting the presence of an artist who allegedly killed a kitten on camera.

He further claims that he was not detained at all by the police.

Any info debunking these statements?

Oh, I’m beginning to love this.

You can see the video of the incident here:

http://www.pestiside.hu/20080930/official-version-of-theater-attack-full-of-more-shit-than-the-bucket-dumped-on-the-directors-head/#c1

There you’ll see: a) the film in which a kitten was drowned; b) the “barbaric attack” on the theater, which was actually a quite disorderly and fairly harmless action.

In further research, I’ve found out that butyric acid does no harm, it only stinks.

This begins to look like yet another manufactured “antisemitic” incident.

I don’t blame Pfeiffer. Years ago, everyone believed Michelle Defonseca when she claimed to have roamed the fields of Europe persecuted by the Nazis and breast-fed by wolves as a six-year-old during WWII. She turned out not even to be Jewish.

“This law was not passed because the Hungarian elite preferred freedom of speech. The extreme right is abusing this right and the denial of Nazi crimes, as well as blatant antisemitic and anti-Roma incitement, is permitted”

God forbid the Hungarians might prefer freedom of speech! The Extreme Right may be scumbags but they are exercising, not abusing, this right. They may be denying the Holocaust but they have every right to do so. The abuse comes in covert demands for a return to censorship and repression.

See the Tobin thread.

Somebody who seems to be concerned with antizionism - calling themself “hasbara buster” is defending a neo-Nazi leader who organized a violent attack on a theatre because it was said to be run by Jews.

Why is the anti-Zionist taking the side of the neo-Nazi?

Weird and horrible, yes, but this should no longer surprise anybody.

“Why is the anti-Zionist taking the side of the neo-Nazi?”

Yes, how could such a thing happen!!!!!

Animal rights activists taking umbrage over the appalling kitten drowning incident is very plausible. Perhaps neo-Nazis used it as a cover. But that doesn’t change the sordidness of the intended victim’s crime (for it was).

This is a morally ambiguous situation, at best. Here is a link to a cat protection site on the matter:

http://www.moggies.co.uk/articles/hungary_video.html

Well, let’s recap:

1) A Jewish Theater in Budapest was attacked and there are two contradictory accounts of the events. Karl Pfeiffer chooses to believe the antisemitism story and reports it as such without checking it out.

2) On the other hand, the Democratic Alliance of Hungarian Gypsies deputy chairman Ernő Botos’s house in Tiszaroff was set on fire and in this case there’s no doubt it was a hate crime. Yet for some reason this crime wasn’t reported at all.

One gets the impression that hate crimes against the different minority groups in Hungary are not equally treated; that certain minorities “matter” more than others. I wonder why that would be?

Karl Pfeiffer chooses to believe the antisemitism story and reports it as such without checking it out.

You, however, chose to believe a known antisemite and neo-Nazi when he says he was innocent. Does this apply to all denials of racist abuse, or just ones involving Jews?

Yet for some reason this crime wasn’t reported at all.

Yes it was. By Karl. Twat.

The only difference is in the so-called mind of the disgusting and stupid antisemite who ‘thinks’ that Hasbara is a department in Tel-Aviv.

This attack needs to be condemned in the strongest language and the perps punished.

But just what is Facism these days? The point Alcuin makes above about the violence of the ‘antifas’ is valid.

Several of these ‘anti-fascists’ attacked and beat up Jews at the aborted Cologne conference on islamisation.

And The Muslim Brotherhood, a fascist organisation if ever there was, praises these ‘anti-facist’ campaigners on their websites and applauds their violence

It’s as though fascism and fascist tendancies are cultrual attributes of whites, and whites only, and cannot be embraced by other races and cultures.

‘Anti-facist’ protestors, beating up individuals opposed to the construction of mosques financed and operated by murderous clerical fascist are themselves fascist.

The alarm expressed about the attack in Hungary is justified and proportional, but an equal degree of alarm is also warranted when other types of fascism, as practised by non-whites, rears its head. But that, unfortunately, is not yet the case, despite the fact this new fascism has already killed scores of westerners.

In Montreal these past few years, more and more anti-semitic attacks, including the first involving real explosives ARE NOT coming from traditional sources, as is still the case with this hungarian incident.

This new fascism, with its threats, its violence, its demonisation of Jews and its attempts to impose censorship and free-speech restrictions, is not being battled by anti-facist cmpaigners, but, in fact, being aided, abetted, protected and embraced by these same so-called ‘anti-fascist’ operatives.

That’s a far more distrubing situation, at least in the long run, than the events in Budapest.

“The alarm expressed about the attack in Hungary is justified and proportional, but an equal degree of alarm is also warranted when other types of fascism, as practised by non-whites, rears its head. But that, unfortunately, is not yet the case, despite the fact this new fascism has already killed scores of westerners”

I don’t think we need to play the race card here. I assume you are referring to the racism of certain liberals who refuse to criticize fascism when it comes from non-European movements (like Islamism, which is NOT mainstream Islam. Well, pleny of European have converted to mainstream Islam and quite a few to extremist Islam too.

Perhaps the problem here with thugs attacking non-violent demonstrators is that the far-left is in fact the far-right. It’s an old cliche, but it’s clearly true. That’s why it’s so many members of the one often jump over to the other or convert to extremist Islam, a rather new, exotic form of fascism.

I don’t see how you can quantify these things and say leftish fascism is more disturbing in the long run. Leftist organisations are dwindling in numbers while the far right are growing. While many in the far right are just as prejudiced to Islam as they are to Jews, there are far-right groups that love extremist Islam precisely because it shares most of the hard right’s irrational views on the Jews. For me, the growing links between the far right and left with one another and with Islamism is the truly worrying factor, especially as the members of all these groups are pretty well the same sad, deranged and very often dangerous types.

I assume you are referring to the racism of certain liberals who refuse to criticize fascism when it comes from non-European movements

Speaking of people who refuse to criticize fascism…

What about Zionists who refuse to criticize Fascists so long as they don’t target Jews or the State of Israel?

Zionists like Fiamma Nirenstein, who ran for the Italian Parliament on the same ticket as avowed fascists Alessandra Mussolini and Giuseppe Ciarrapico as part of Berlusconi’s coalition.

Berlusconi is fingerprinting all Gypsies, both Italian and foreign, but there’s no problem, since he’s friends with Israel now. Thus, Italian Fascists see themselves in a win-win situation: their having a Jew on their ticket gives them respectability and, at the same time, they are free to harass the “indesirable” minorities with impunity — after all, how can a party that supports Jews and Israel be called Fascist?

Another example is Israel’s acceptance of anti-gay bigot John Hagee’s present of 9 million dollars. This extreme right evangelical pastor would be classified as a Fascist under traditional criteria — but again, his tactical support for Israel gives him breathing space to pursue his more immediate anti-gay, anti-abortion, anti-premarital-sex agenda.

I tell you, this is a world full of unholy alliances.

- Islamism, which is NOT mainstream Islam

Who says (other than you)? Find me a Muslim who can tell you the difference between Islam and Islamism.

The unfortunate fact is that mainstream Islam, as defined by its own texts, is intolerant, misogynistic, discriminatory, imperialist, anti-semitic and violent. Islamism is a construct of western apologists for Islam in an attempt to give the “moderates” an excuse to behave decently to their fellow humans by pretending that “true” Islam is “the religion of peace”. Good luck with that, because few of them buy it.

May I suggest that everyone desist responding to Buster’s subject changes until he reciprocates the indulgence he receives and starts addressing the numerous questions and points which have been put to him?

“What about Zionists who refuse to criticize Fascists so long as they don’t target Jews or the State of Israel?”

Well, yes, like any form of nationalism, Zionism is made up of a very large and varied collection of political groups, some of which have fascist views. Can you tell me any nation that doesn’t have fascists among its nationalist? So the point is, you’re faulting Zionists for acting like all other people?

Italy’s main Jewish organisation immediately came out against the proposed new laws against Gypsies. But of course, you ignore that fact and then make a deranged Jewish politician out there representative of all Jews.

Well, your words certify you as an avowed anti-semite: you accuse all Jews of being Zionists, and cite individual bad Jews as typical examples of Jews.

You clearly have a lot of serious personal issues that need sorting out. Of course, the irony in everything you’ve stated here is that while Israel has extremely good laws protecting gays and gay rights, there is not one Islamic country that does not have strong anti-gay laws, and there are many Islamic countries that officially persecute and murder gays (along with women, religious and ethnic minorities).

Here are some basic points for you to grapple with next time you post here:

1) Jews and Zionists are not the same thing

2) There are good and bad Jews, just like anyone else.

3) One fifth of all Nobel prize winners have been Jewish (out of a world Jewish population of about 12 million). There are roughly five Muslims, out of a world population of one billion Muslims, who have won Nobel prizes. Are you going to blame that on the Jewish / Zionist conspiracy?

“I tell you, this is a world full of unholy alliances”

Yes, like…

Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Hitler
Sayyid Ibn Qutb and Nazism
Ahmadnejhad and David Duke
George Gallowy and Saddam Hussein
Richard and Judy

After the creation of state of Israel the Jews have no reason to stay “in exile”.

You, however, chose to believe a known antisemite and neo-Nazi when he says he was innocent. Does this apply to all denials of racist abuse, or just ones involving Jews?

The known antisemite seems to be above all a provocateur, so it would be logical for him to be present wherever there may be trouble. Now the theater director did drown a kitten, and knowing from my own experience what animal rights activists are capable of, it seems to me a likely scenario that things worked out like Tomcat says they did.

The fact that there are two competing stories here is, in my view, quite relevant, especially considering that this post doesn’t cite any sources.

“After the creation of state of Israel the Jews have no reason to stay “in exile”.

This is far too simplistic.

Firstly, setting aside the fact that even Jews in Israel are in Golus, “Exile” from a religious point of view, and also subject to dangers, including attack by anti-Semitic thugs (like the young boys attacked in Petach Tikvah, a few weeks ago), there can be many reasons why individual Jews and perhaps even groups of Jews refrain from moving to Israel.

The Job market in Israel is one basic reason, simply put, not all Jews can afford to abandon their employment and homes to move to Israel, where it might be harder to find suitable employment.

Also, for Jews for whom religious life is everything, moving to Israel might not be the best option. In some cases, a Jew’s individual religiosity is best served, by remaining part of a richly observant diaspora community, in which their religious and self development is nurtured, instead of moving to Israel, where this might not always be the case.

Living in the Land of Israel, is of course a commandment of our faith, and the Land is the place designed for the observance of Judaism, but making Aliya, should not be done without deep thought.

May the time when all Jews reside safely in Zion come soon.

Buster, please tell us why you: a) take an attested neo-Nazi and antisemite on his word, but not the Jew; b) mis-read Karl’s mentioning of the Roma attack as not mentioning it; c) are such a gobby twat.

Hey, as there are more self-identifying “Greeks” living in the USA, Australia, South Africa (i.e. outside Greece) than there are in Greece itself, shouldn’t we call for the immediate end of Greece and for its return to Turkey

My response, Basic Facts.

Alec:

a) the antisemite said something very concrete: that he wasn’t detained by the police. If he was, it should be relatively easy to produce evidence to refute his claim, shouldn’t it? The burden of proof lies on the one who makes an assertion, not on the one who denies it.

b) the Roma attack took place in March; Karl didn’t mention it in March; he only gave it a passing mention now and in the bigger context of denouncing an allegedly antisemitic attack; and even then he didn’t give the Gypsy’s name or his position within the Roma community, i.e. he gave no detail whatsoever about an attack ten times as serious as throwing shit on someone’s face;

c) I don’t know; I’ll ask my therapist.

Buster: why do you believe an attested neo-Nazi and antisemite was gathering daisies at the time of an attack on a Jewish target; b) where is your evidence that Karl did not mention in March the attack, given that HP is not the only portal to news reporting; c) faced with the alternative of a fire-bombing, would you welcome shit-throwing and chocolate dusting; d) about Bush’s Reichstag the Interpol warrant.

I tell you, this is a world full of unholy alliances.Hasbara B.

Hmmmm..that said, I stillwouldn’t want you in mine

why do you believe an attested neo-Nazi and antisemite was gathering daisies at the time of an attack on a Jewish target

He’s a well-known provocateur and was hired by the ARL to film the incident.

where is your evidence that Karl did not mention in March the attack, given that HP is not the only portal to news reporting

Because he himself says:

This incident was – as far as I am informed – not published outside Hungary.

Since Pfeiffer lives in Austria, he didn’t publish the incident.

Hmmmm..that said, I stillwouldn’t want you in mine

Same here, John P. But if you ever come to my town, I’ll treat you to a couple of beers. No alliance doesn’t necessarily mean no friendship.

Your answers, please, Buster.

==> Since Pfeiffer lives in Austria, he didn’t publish the incident.

Truly, truly pathetic. How do you know Karl does not work in Hungary. That’s right, you don’t.

“Mr Pfeifer is a longstanding anti-racist campaigner and journalist in Austria. ”

http://oliverkamm.typepad.com/blog/2008/02/judgement-at-th.html

My emphasis.

Why are you doing this, Buster? You don’t have a single shard of evidence that Karl has only ever published articles within Austria or speaks English to a sufficient degree to create no doubt whatsoever.

Go on, admit you made a mistake. You could blame the Jews.

Watching Soros meddeling on Hungarian affairs one should be accept the legacy of the Iron Cross is still live on.

YossiUK,

Jews should live according to their achievement and not leach on the Gentiles prosperity, whether the economical condition in Israel is good or bad. Noticing your spelling the word Galut (”Galus”) I can read that you’re one of the Haredi anti Zionist community. No need to argue with your lot.

Since the Haredi men don’t work and rely on state benefits your anti Zionism don’t count. Stay where you are

You kidding me? Pfeiffer writes flawless English, and I gave a source that describes him as a journalist in Austria.

Why do you ask me to provide lots of evidence for my statements, while accepting Karl’s post, in which not a link is given, at face value?

Why do you single me out for demonization?

Jerusalamite.

I think perhaps you should think before you make comments like you do, after all these are the Aseres Yemei Teshuva.

Living according to our achievement you say. Well first be careful not to fall into the trap of Kochi V’Otzem Yodi.

Living by our achievements does not have to mean “leaching gentiles prosperity”. Most Jews I know and yes that includes Haredim, don’t leach the prosperity of gentiles. You seem to have adopted some of the same thinking as the anti-Semites who say “The Jews steal all our wealth”.

May HaShem open your heart to all your fellow Jews.

Wishing you a Gmar Chasima Tova.

” You seem to have adopted some of the same thinking as the anti-Semites ”

Most of the anti semites today use the anti Zionist arguments of the Haredi Jews (ie Satmer etc). The Haredi world today is the main source of the antisemitism/antizionism today (see the Nazi, Islamists and Lefty websites who quotes your hatred material). Galut or not, the Jews should leave the Gentile world. It’s easy to cry about Nazis in Hungary while George Soros take over the Hungarian political life. As a Galuti, you may don’t understand how it provoke the local nation. It’s nothing to do with the Haredi concept of Kochi V’Otzem Yodi.

Jerusalemite,

Firstly Satmar, to which I do not belong, has a religious argument against Zionism, based on traditional Judaism and not the modern political opposition of non-Jewish anti-Semites, or the Islamist ideology of some Muslim anti-Semites. And don’t confuse the arguments of Satmar, with the lunatics of Neturei Karta.

If you think that the Haredi world is the main source of anti-Semitism then you are again displaying an irrational hatred of your fellow Jews.

Anti-Semitism first and foremost does not need a cause, and will use any excuse to heap more hatred upon Jews.

The main excuse that anti-Semites use, is actually Israel’s behaviour towards the Arabs, even though much of that behaviour is completely appropriate and necessary. It is Israel’s actions in Gaza (which I support) or the second Lebanon war (which I supported) that give/gave rise to increased levels of anti-Jewish hatred. You see many anti-Israel protests, or free Palestine protests around the world, you don’t see many anti-Haredi protests (except sadly in Israel).

How many Harry’s Place anti-Zionist posters, have you seen, arguing against Israel, due to the special role of the Jewish nation in the eyes of HaShem? Probably none.

Explain to me how, for example Jews in Britain like myself, are provoking the Gentiles?

I have not said Jews should not live in Eretz Yisroel, I have said that the ideal place for Jews is in that very land. But, as observance of Torah is the very raison d’etre of the Jewish people, that must be the main consideration when deciding if and when to move to Israel.

If a persons adherence to a Torah life, is better served in Chutz L’Aretz, due to many individual circumstances, then this is the preferred choice. If on the other hand moving to Eretz Yisroel, will strengthen a Torah life, then of course this would be the better option.

You talk of the Haredi concept of Kochi V’Otzem Yodi, but let me remind you the concept is in the Torah, expounded upon in the Talmud, and discussed by many commentators for thousands of years. It was not invented yesterday.

Keep well Yerushalmi, and don’t be so quick to judge your brothers negatively.

Again Wishing you a Gmar Chasima Tova

Pfeiffer writes flawless English,

No, he doesn’t.

and I gave a source that describes him as a journalist in Austria.

Quite apart from the fact that Kammo is not his mummy, you did not give a source which described him as only ever working in Austria. You are also dim. Karl’s point was always that, to his mind, it had not been reported outwith Hungary.

What do you do to score some impenetrable point? Provide a Hungarian website!

Twat.

The Haredi world today is the main source of the antisemitism/antizionism today

Probably the silliest comment ever made on HP.

After the creation of state of Israel the Jews have no reason to stay “in exile”.

It is antisemitic and/or totalitarian fascism (depending on your attitude to Japanese living away from Japan, etc) to prohibit Jews to live outside Israel.

Not half as silly as a twerp who can’t even read a full sentence.

Before we cry Nazis to the action of some Hungrian Chavs, it’s important to know that they are real and just grievances

George Soros: Beware of billionaires bearing gifts

By Richard C. Morals

Forbes, April 1997

Soros annually pumps some $60 million into
outfits in Hungary, among them his Central
European University, whose goal is to educate an
“administrative elite.” Here students can not only
bone up on macroeconomics but also on such
American imports as feminist literary theory and
how the media “constructs gender and sexuality,
whether heterosexual or homosexual.”

Johnathan Sunley, The Windsor Group Conservatives
like Sunley say Soros Is “laundering” former
Communists.

But along the way Soros seems to have developed
delusions of grandeur. He wasn’t satisfied with
helping end Communist totalitarianism. He wanted
to decide what kind of government would replace
it. In 1990 a new centre-right coalition
government was voted into power in Hungary which
killed the Soros-government agreement. That’s when
the foundation began its partisan support.
Vasarhelyi denies that there is any political bias
in his foundation. The Soros Foundation, for
example, gives to the youth clubs and pays for
Gypsy dance troupes (the Gypsies are a repressed
minority in Europe).

How reformed are Soros’ ex-Communists? Not very. A
few years back, Gyorgy Litvan, a Soros friend of
longstanding, a former adviser to the
foundation’s board and director of an institute
given Soros’ grants, attacked historian Maria
Schmidt. She had uncovered secret police files
indirectly confirming that Alger Hiss had been a
Soviet spy. Her work was widely published in the
U.S. and led to a Reader’s Digest article in
Hungary. Then she bumped into Litvan. Schmidt says
Litvan lambasted her for her “mentality,” and said
he would do everything he could to stop her
working as an academic in Hungary.

Litvan tells FORBES he never said such a thing,
but admits he used his power to block her from
making a documentary on the secret police. “I
dislike her,” he says. “She is on the far right.”
This Soros friend has an interesting idea of what
constitutes “far fight.” It seems to be anyone to
the right of Alger Hiss.

Interviewing him in London, FORBEs asked Soros
why he supports turncoats likc Litvan and
Vasarhelyi. His reply was–shall we say–a bit
confusing. “They [as exCommunists] know better
what democracy is than perhaps those who were
always opposed to [the regime].” What an insult to
those true democrats who paid, sometimes with
theirlives, for their beliefs.

[ these people slaughtered the population, Hungary,
Czechoslavakia uprisings in 1950’s, and other countries ]

That’s outrageous, typical Soros gobbledygook.
Exactly what does he believe in? A utopian vision
of a sort of borderless, multicultural world,
where people respect one another and the
well-to-do take care of the lesswell-off. But
Soros’ friend Byron Wien, managing director of
Morgan Stanley International, comes closer to the
truth when he says: “Soros is terrified of
right-wing nationalism.”

Understandable perhaps in a man who spent his
boyhood watching Nazis aud their Hungarian
supporters at work. In testimony to the U.S.
Congress in 1994, Soros insisted that Eastern
Europe’s ex-Communists “want to get away from
Communism as far as possible. Their reemergence
constitutes a welcome extension of the democratic
spectrum.” Soros went on: “The real danger is the
emergence of would-be nationalist dictatorships.
They are playing in a field definitely tilted in
their favor.”

Thus, for Soros, a rosy glow seems to surround the
left, while conservatism seems, to him, a stand-in
for Nazism. That may seem relatively benign when
expoundcd in American universities. It is pure
poison in Eastern and Central Europe, which badly
need to develop their free markets.

Nearly Oxfordian

[i]The Haredi world today is the main source of the antisemitism/antizionism today

Probably the silliest comment ever made on HP.[/i]

Oxfordian , I say main not all. Many of the anti Zionists (which is todays antisemitism) I’ve encountered in the web always come with quotes that apeared in their shitty sites. The name Yithak Grinboum (who was supposedly Haredi’s nemsis since his Poland days) is repeated there. They don’t know who he was, but always they come with his name. So I know where they take it from.

YossiUK

[i]How many Harry’s Place anti-Zionist posters, have you seen, arguing against Israel, due to the special role of the Jewish nation in the eyes of HaShem?”[/i]

I didn’t mean for that. They are using the Satmar post Holocuast argument which they found in their hatred site to prove their case against “Nazi” Israel.

At that time, to those who don’t know the history, the Zionists called the Jews to leave Hungary in the face of growing Hitler power. The Haredi Rabinate (not just Satmar) rediculed the Zionists and call their Hasidi followers to stay becuse the Zionists are seculars who defy Massiah coming, God forbid. When the Nazis occupied Hungary, the chief Satmar rabbi was rescued by the Zionists (the notorious Kastner train) who made a deal with Eichmann, and left his followers behind. After the war when most of his followers were parished in Hungary and Auscwitz, the chief Satmar sect had to axcuse his behaviour to his followers by blaming the Zionist as coporating with the Nazis. Thus diverting his folowers attention to what predate the Nazi occupatin.

Those famous arguments ( the Zionists collaborators) now apeared in numerous sites which all sort of anti Zionists quote.

Yerushalmi,

Firstly the view of Satmar is not the view of the majority of Haredi Jewry.

Secondly, not all Hassidic Rebbes told their followers to stay in Europe at the time of the holocaust. For example the Bobover and Gerrer Rebbes recommended people leave.

Thirdly, you are much mistaken if you believe they are using Satmar’s argument, which as I have said is simply a religious argument, (the 3 oaths, irreligious nature of the State etc).

Neturei Karta on the other hand do have a website which attacks Israel on political grounds also, but Neturei Karta are rejected by most Haredi Jews, and even Satmar.

Finally it was not only Haredim that accused some Zionists of collaboration, but also many secular Jews too.

The Belzer Rebbe was a huge supporter of settling Eretz Yisroel, even though he opposed Zionism, and encouraged many of his Hasidim to move to Israel.

The Meshech Chochma, again while not supporting Zionism, also encouraged people to move to Eretz Yisroel.

Many Haredi Jews worked tirelessly to save as many Jews from Europe as possible, they are well known.

Of course it is well worth remembering that the Jewish Agency, very often gave immigration permits to secular Jews, and withheld them from religious Jews.

As you can see this history is complex and mistakes were made on all sides.

Your contention that modern day anti-Semites draw a lot of material from Haredi anti-Zionists, is just silly. Most Haredi groups don’t have websites to start with.

You conveniently forget, the not insignificant number of secular Israeli’s who’s hatred for the state, is often quoted by anti-Semites, examples Ilan Pappe, Israel Shahak spring to mind, and as these secular “scholars” present secular, political arguments against Israel they are more convincing to your average non-Jew than anything said by Neturei Karta. Oh and don’t let me forget Peace Now! That organisation is hardly crammed with Haredim is it!

And finally, George Soros, who’s activities you think explain Hungarian anti-Semitism, is not religious, and is indeed an atheist.

Does this not damage your contention that Haredim are responsible for the majority of anti-Semitism?