Harry’s Place

I do recognise that there is a certain ‘liberal’ disdain for ‘ordinary people’: that is, people who attend church, like shooting and guns, SUVs and so on.

However, there’s really no escaping it.

Palin is utterly hopeless.

Utterly hopeless is fine in almost any field, other than VP to a man who, let’s face it, is really quite likely to die in office.

How very, very comic that someone who has working class and non metropolitan habits of speech should have the embarrassing nerve to aspire to be vice president of the USA, and should be thought to be self-satirizing on account of that. Must be sending such a frisson around the NYRB reading classes who would always show their readiness for public office by saying deeply meaningful things like “change we can all believe in” and “yes we can”.

What really gets under Gene’s skin:

“Turns out one of Barack’s earliest supporters is a man who, according to The New York Times, and they are hardly ever wrong, was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol. Wow. These are the same guys who think patriotism is paying higher taxes.”

Oh come on Judy - you telling me there is no one cleverer than Palin who has “working class and non-metropolitan habits of speech”. It’s not how she says it - it’s what she says; and then that leaves her open satire. If she wasn’t so obviously out of her depth no one would care about her mannerisms and speech etc.

She also said “doggone” in the debate.

I love that they verbed maverick.

“She also said “doggone” in the debate.”

How unspeakably gauche.

I bet she has never used the word “paradigm” in a conversation with Todd about parenting.

The problem isn’t that she says “doggone”

The problem is that she knows nothing.

Judy, Palin’s g-dropping is just a temporary/recent affectation. Check her older (pre-McCain) speeches and you’ll seldom hear it… except, of course, when she was trying to out-”plain-folk” her political opponent.

Sure, she’s not McCain, who can’t remember how many houses he owns, but it’s a bit hypocritical to be pretending to be Joe-sixpack when in fact (according to a report by Associated Press) you own “a half-million-dollar home on a lake with a float-plane at the dock, two vacation retreats, commercial-fishing rights worth an estimated $50,000 or more and an income last year of at least $230,000.”

“The Palins’ four-bedroom, four-bath house, nearly 3,500 square feet, sits on just over two acres behind a tall wood-plank privacy fence that runs along one side of the property. It’s one of the newest homes in the Snider subdivision lining Lake Lucille and is assessed at $552,000 — more than twice the value of a neighboring two-acre lot with a much smaller, older wood-frame home.”

How very, very comic that someone who has working class and non metropolitan habits of speech should have the embarrassing nerve to aspire to be vice president of the USA, and should be thought to be self-satirizing on account of that. Must be sending such a frisson around the NYRB reading classes who would always show their readiness for public office by saying deeply meaningful things like “change we can all believe in” and “yes we can”.

Very well put. Obama’s ‘deep’ moments are…’ow you say… ‘peu profond’.

She also said “doggone” in the debate

Quick! Page Mother-Superior!

I often say “doggone” while playing Chopin.

What has that to do with anything?

Are you saying Palin can’t be V.P. cuz she talks like ordinary Americans?

Doggone it!

How unspeakably gauche.

Not at all, it’s just that I had barely heard “doggone” used before and had to look up its meaning.

“The Palins’ four-bedroom, four-bath house, nearly 3,500 square feet, sits on just over two acres behind a tall wood-plank privacy fence that runs along one side of the property. It’s one of the newest homes in the Snider subdivision lining Lake Lucille and is assessed at $552,000 — more than twice the value of a neighboring two-acre lot with a much smaller, older wood-frame home.”

As far as I can determine, the Palins acquired their home without the assistance of a convicted felon. And it lies entirely withing the means of a North Slope prole and a small town mayor.

“Not at all, it’s just that I had barely heard “doggone” used before and had to look up its meaning.”

Oh, please. Anyone with a passing aquaintance with American popular culture is familiar with “doggone.” Spare me your fake ignorance. Your comment was made out of snobbishness.

Are you saying Palin can’t be V.P. cuz she talks like ordinary Americans?

No, I was just adding to Gene’s list. “Doggone” is not one I am very familiar with. Gene’s right to say she seems to satirise herself- but that’s because she is style over substance. She can talk like she wants - as long as she’s got something to say.

Is there meant to be a YouTube clip embedded here? Not showing for me…

“Not at all, it’s just that I had barely heard “doggone” used before and had to look up its meaning.”

Benji, get thee to the nearest Marvin Gaye record.

Well, goodness me. That someone who uses the expression “doggone” should have become wealthy enough through her own and her partner’s efforts to afford a large property and should be continuing to use the habits of speech she grew up with! Whatever next? I’m sure on the other hand that Barack Obama hasn’t altered his language one teeny tiny bit since he aspired to be president.

It all reminds me of the relentless campaign against Boris, to insist that he must be a buffoon, a cretin, an idiot etc etc. Despite the fact that he’d won a scholarship to Eton, another one to Oxford and had successfully run the Spectator.

So what on earth can Palin expect who never managed to get herself into one of the elite universities of the US?

Of course there were also the relentless campaigns that told us that both Reagan and the two Bushes were complete idiots….In fact, I can’t recall a presidential campaign in my lifetime that didn’t deluge voters with claims that the Republican candidates were boneheads or villains or both (I remember Ford, who was said not to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time, even Eisenhower who was said to be interested in nothing but golf).

“Turns out one of Barack’s earliest supporters is a man who, according to The New York Times, and they are hardly ever wrong, was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and U.S. Capitol. Wow. These are the same guys who think patriotism is paying higher taxes.”

Says the woman who continues to sleep with a recent member of the pro-secessionist Alaskan Independence Party, founded by a man who said, “I’m an Alaskan, not an American. I’ve got no use for America or her damned institutions.”

The larger point about Sarah Palin’s folksiness– faux or real– is that it’s not convincing anyone to vote for McCain-Palin, as the post-debate polls reveal. The times are too serious.

“Says the woman who continues to sleep with a recent member of the pro-secessionist Alaskan Independence Party”

Uh-huh, so now you’re equating Alex Salmond and any other secessionists with terrorists? And why “sleeps with” rather than “married to”? You need counselling.

Palin may not know as much as David T but at least she doesn’t think America kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon!

Biden, one step away from the Presidency. Scary stuff.

It all reminds me of the relentless campaign against Boris, to insist that he must be a buffoon, a cretin, an idiot etc etc. Despite the fact that he’d won a scholarship to Eton, another one to Oxford and had successfully run the Spectator.

So some who makes as calculated decision to mask their intelligence in the hope people will underestimate them is comparable to someone who is deeply ignorant and fudamentally uncurious about the world?

(Note to American readers: Boris was born in New York and would be eligible to be VP. Now that he’s got rid of Ian Blair, you’re welcome to take him off our hands).

Sure some people are condescending towards people who, as David says, like hunting and going to church. But the assumption that to criticise Palin is to criticise them seems to be based on the assumption that these people are all, like Palin, stupid and proud of it. I wouldn’t care to follow that line of argument myself.

Your comment was made out of snobbishness.

It wasn’t actually. It’s an unusual word to use in the context she used it. Moreover, it sounded affected in the way she said it - rehearsed.

So we get this bizarre routine where right wing people like Palin are defended against “elitist” attacks. It’s straight out of Rove’s playbook.

Palin is a patsy who comes out with fake “populist” platitudes in attempt to enact tax cuts for the rich, and the status quo (worse than) on health care.

Care to quote Ayers wife Gene?

”First they killed that pig then they they stuck a fork in his belly, Wild”.

Or words to that effect.

Palin is the only American politician who has stood up to oil companies and won in a half century.

Obama, built his political career on money from slumlords and is the 3rd biggest Senate recipient of bribes from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae last year.

It’s really about that simple.

Judy,

Glad to hear you are sticking up for the working class - do you do this often? Or is it just for right wing, Assemblies of God, tax cuts for the rich, creationist, anti-abortion types?

Of course, Benji. Democrats never never ever resort to populist platitudes. The merely Stand Up For Workling Families.

Of course they do. I just thought that Palin in the debate, in a very affected way - winking, come on - was taking the whole thing to new level. That combined with her obvious lack of substance, meant the whole thing was clearly ripe for satire.

Obama ran an ad condemning McCain for owning foreign cars and has said Free Trade is “unpatriotic”.

That was moronic in 1832, you’d have to be completely braindead to still go for it now.

Palin is an idiot. Did you hear where she claimed that Pakistani missile could reach Israel. What incendiary garbage”. Has she ever looked at a map?

Biden is a moron. Palin is a successful governor. Obama is a crook and a fraud.

It was not that Palin’s performance at the VP debate was that bad. Watching it again, I thought it was okay in the sense it was reasonably coherent. However, you got the impression it was so incredibly rehearsed, how she kept falling back on talking points. There was no flexibility - this was demonstrated by the answers to the VP question and the one about changing position or perspective.

Gene’s right to say she seems to satirise herself- but that’s because she is style over substance. She can talk like she wants - as long as she’s got something to say.

Gene’s post is motivated by pure east coast snobbery. Conservative candidates are constantly being portrayed as simpletons and incompetants.

Years ago, a conservative candidate for Canadian Prime Minister, Robert Stanfield, happened to fumble a football someone had thrown him.

From that moment onward that’s all the largely liberal press talked about, as though being good at football was a essential requirement for high office.

Similarly, when Gerald Ford (a very decent and intelligent fellow) stumbled while walking down steps the press obsessed about the incident for the rest of the rest of the ‘76 campaign, meaning American’s got stuck with 4 years of Jimmy Carter, one of the worst presidents ever.

Sarah Palin doesn’t talk funny, she talks normal.

When you’re from N. America it’s the Brits who talk funny. They say ‘wohtah’ ,for instance, instead of the much more proper american ‘wadder’ ( water).

People satirise me all the time and I love it! :-)

“From that moment onward that’s all the largely liberal press talked about, as though being good at football was a essential requirement for high office.”

John Kerry, baseball, remember? Course you do, your guys were laughing for months.

“However, you got the impression it was so incredibly rehearsed, how she kept falling back on talking points.”

Give me a break, Benjamin. All candidates use “talking points,” and they don’t “fall back” on them. Thet actively seek out opportunities to use them, which is what Palin did.

Uh-huh, so now you’re equating Alex Salmond and any other secessionists with terrorists?

Abraham Lincoln didn’t take so kindly to secessionists. I think he had the right attitude toward them.

Gerald Ford (a very decent and intelligent fellow) stumbled while walking down steps the press obsessed about the incident for the rest of the rest of the ‘76 campaign, meaning American’s got stuck with 4 years of Jimmy Carter, one of the worst presidents ever

And clearly no one ever mocked Carter for being attacked by a rabbit or saying he’d been consulting his teenage daughter about nuclear proliferation.

I think there might have been a few jokes made about Bill Clinton’s leisure-time activities too, but I’ve been so brain-washed by the liberal media that I can’t remember any off the top of my head.

The footage below was smuggled out, smaizdata-style, from PALIN’S very first cabinate meeting. There’s a new depression coming, so we might as well just get used to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDGN78kS9X0&feature=related

Utterly hopeless is fine in almost any field, other than VP to a man who, let’s face it, is really quite likely to die in office.

‘Quite likely to die in office’ - do you have the slightest idea what a disgusting mindset you have?

Judy is right, but has only lightly touched upon the sneering condescension, the sheer nasty snottiness, of those who look down on Palin for being an ordinary person with speech habits which are quite common in the USA (but of course, your usual ignorant USA-hating Islingtonite doesn’t know this …). To think that this is posted by people who regard themselves as ’socialist’, or ‘of the left’, and as ’standing up for the common man’ … utterly contemptible.

“Abraham Lincoln didn’t take so kindly to secessionists. I think he had the right attitude toward them.”

You think habeas corpus should be suspended for members of the Alaksan Independence Party. Are you drunk or soemthing?

By the way, what about Puerto Rican secessionists? Hawaian ones? Palin’s husband (again, please explain your bizarre “sleeping with” comment) is part eskimo. I was given to understand that sympathy with secessionist movements was fairly common among native American communities. And you think this is in some way comparable to the American Civil War. Take a cold shower or something.

Benjamin, have you ever learned to read? The sneering was directed quite specifically at HOW she says it: the “gosh darnits” and “you betchas” mentioned in Gene’s nasty post.

So we get this bizarre routine where right wing people like Palin are defended against “elitist” attacks.

It’s only ‘bizarre’ on planet Zog. There is easily as much elitism on the left as there is on the right.

From time to time, especially when Gene’s Democratic friends at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac take another huge chunk out of my future prosperity, I entertain seditious, if glancing, thoughts about the Texas Republic.

In any case, the Alsakan Independence party is basically an extreme federalist organization.

Who cares what its founder said? The founder of the Democratic party (Jackson) committed genocide against the Native Americans, but we don’t hold that against you.

Here’s info about an Obama chum

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2074513/posts

The winking and folksiness is just a bad vaudeville turn.Previous debates show Palin to be a babbling airhead,but don’t have the ludicrous fake language add ons.
As for the “elites” turning off from Palin,in the last three weeks she’s suffered a 27 point fall in the polls, helping Obama to record ratings, particularly amongst women.

I for one have had quite enough of Gene’s vile right wing fearmongering about the native Eskimo people of Alaska.

Are there any other American indigenous peoples you think are guilty of treason, Gene, the Yanomamo perhaps.

Get this disgusting bigot off Harry’s Place!

“The problem isn’t that she says “doggone”

The problem is that she knows nothing.”

Indeed. And that she is crazy right wing with it. An act of breathtaking cynicism from McCain. If he’d picked Lieberman I’d've had a lot more respect for him. Though I am not your average American voter, to be fair!

Palin’s “I’m just like you guys” is actually breathtakingly patronising. It takes people for fools. And is transparent. In the same way that the people defending her here by accusing her critics of liberal metropolitan snobbery are utterly transparent too. It’s quite remarkable that this is a successful Republican rhetorical device given the extraordinary shitness of their politics for working people by comparison with the centre-right in the rest of the developed world.

People used to slag off Prescott in this country for his speech and mannerisms - that actually was metropolitan snobbery, whether liberal or otherwise, since he was clearly a good political operator. In the case of Palin, no doubt there are some horrible metropolitan liberal snobs who dislike her, but her gargantuan failings are palpable without her folksy manner being relevant in and of itself (its relevance is in the transparently unsubtle deploying of it for political purpose).

To be honest, though, yeah, she grates on me big time. (Ducks)

By the way, youtube have taken the SNL clips down.
Here’s a direct link.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/727421/

“Uh-huh, so now you’re equating Alex Salmond and any other secessionists with terrorists?”

“Abraham Lincoln didn’t take so kindly to secessionists. I think he had the right attitude toward them.”

Heh heh heh…

In fact Gene’s disturbing embrace of anti-progressive politics is not just limited to racist innuendo about the loyalty of indigenous Americans (comparing them to terrorists!). He has also become a fan of corrupt crony Capitalism and congressman knee deep on corporate bribes. When you combine this with prurient interest in the bedroom activities of female politicians (straight out of the Rove playbook), I really do wonder why an ostensibly progressive website is hosting him.

Is this what Nick Cohen meant when he talked about the infiltration of right wing ideas into Left?

Meanwhile, the President of the LA chapter of NOW has endorsed Palin. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJxIYQKmM0M
With Obama taking trade policy from the 19th century Tory party, are we witnessing that much discussed political realignment?

“To be honest, though, yeah, she grates on me big time. (Ducks)”

I imagine she “grated” on you long before you inferred her “gargantuan failings.”

Benjamin, have you ever learned to read? The sneering was directed quite specifically at HOW she says it: the “gosh darnits” and “you betchas” mentioned in Gene’s nasty post.

Yes, and my point is that this sort of sneering is more likely if Palin appears out of her depth, makes gaffes, etc. Then the media more easily latches onto those things. Underlying it is a lack of substance on her part - that is fundamentally her undoing. If you marry a lack of substance, gaffes etc to the kind of exaggerated folksiness that she displayed in the debate, then you get the inevitable satire.

The fact is Palin was an astonishingly poor choice by McCain. It’s breathtakingly poor. If he had chosen Romney would he be pulling out of Michigan now?

You remind me, Benji, of all those Republicans who lamented (in good faith! Honest!) that Obama should have chosen Hillary.

Meanwhile, the President of the LA chapter of NOW has endorsed Palin

Yes, and she made it very clear that she was speaking as an individual and not for NOW.

You remind me, Benji, of all those Republicans who lamented (in good faith! Honest!) that Obama should have chosen Hillary.

Mesquito
Do you think Palin was the best choice for McCain?

It’s not that she says “doggonnit”. It’s that she says “doggonit” in lieu of having anything else to say. On purpose.

Ambition is not a stand-alone qualification for government’s highest offices.

I can’t say I was too galvanized by the election until recently, but the thought of Palin as President of the US of A is scary, if and when McCain keels over?

Imagine her finger on the nuclear button? not nice

Disgusting bigot, Sarah Palin, calls AIP a valuable part of Alsakan politics, says political competition is “good”, endorse bi-partisan co-operation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI

Treason!

Right wing “elites” love Palin for the same reasons that Left wing “elites” hate her. But both are wrong. Either way, she is a phony caricature of a normal “working class” type. There is nothing normal about her. She is fucking strange.

Tim: Yes. I was resigned to him choosing Romney or Pawlenty or some other obvious choice. Had he done so, he would be in much worse shape than he is now. I was very surprised that he chose her, though I knew more about her than most Americans outside of Alaska.
I think the brilliance of McCain’s choice surprised even McCain

She’s not normal, she’s a very successful governor who successfully took on big oil.

“By the way, youtube have taken the SNL clips down.
Here’s a direct link.”

At last. Thank you Tim. Loving fake Biden and his “genetic cesspool”.

People used to slag off Prescott in this country for his speech and mannerisms - that actually was metropolitan snobbery, whether liberal or otherwise, since he was clearly a good political operator.

In fact, it was an expression of disgust at the fact that this lying and incompetent waste of protoplasm was deputy PM instead of a parking attendant. And for your info, I have nil time for metro snobs and live in a smallish village far from any metropolitan centre.

And of course, accordintg to Shmuel, only cookie-cutter clones deserve to be politicians in his egalitarian universe.

Yes, and my point is that this sort of sneering is more likely if Palin appears out of her depth, makes gaffes, etc. Then the media more easily latches onto those things

No, obviously you can’t read. I wasn’t talking about the media, I was talking about Gene.
But what else would Benjamin be saying if not trying to deflect, misquote and flimflam?

Maybe instead of saying doggone, Palin should have said something sensible, like claiming the Obama doesn’t support negotiations without pre-conditions, despite it being official policy on his website.

“I imagine she “grated” on you long before you inferred her “gargantuan failings.””

It’s the combination of the transparently over-hammed folksiness with the equally transparent bovinity that does it for me. The folksiness is not a problem for me in itself at all. Clinton wasn’t exactly New England posh was he? And I liked him. And I don’t think Dubya’s a chimp either. So there are better targets for you to super-impose British snobbish condescension upon, I would think.

“And of course, accordintg to Shmuel, only cookie-cutter clones deserve to be politicians in his egalitarian universe.”

And much like Sarah Palin, its impossible to understand the meaning of Nearly Oxfordian’s hollow, strung-together talking points.

I kinda liked Bush’s “unblinking” folky wisdom until he proved himself to be one of the worst presidents this country has ever known. Then these qualities started to, you know, annoy me.

If anything, Palin is his clone. Why would we (the people that actually live in this country) want that?

OK, Nearly Oxfordian, are you going to tell me which shul to attend high holiday services at next? I’m waiting.

Shmuel do you think it’s possible that “Change we can believe in” might start to wear on you too?

It became profoundly annoying to everyone with a brain over a year ago.

The sneering was directed quite specifically at HOW she says it: the “gosh darnits” and “you betchas” mentioned in Gene’s nasty post.

It’s nothing to do with how she says it. It’s her patronising attitude, that this folksy schtick can win over most Americans, because she thinks they’re too stuid to vote for the policies that will help them and will fall for the “gosh, I’m just like you guys” routine, when really she’s just a female version of George W. Bush.

“It became profoundly annoying to everyone with a brain over a year ago.”

Then I guess my brain is in good shape because the more vapid aspects of Obama’s populist campaign have annoyed me from the start. However, I think he is also generally intelligent, wise, honest and moderate. Especially compared to the nasty, batshit crazy ticket he’s up against.

Not just annoying, but actually fairly disturbing. I really don’t like being from the same species as someone who can listen to “we are the change we have been waiting for” and vote to inflict that on the world for four years.

To me, this is nasty batshit crazy:

“Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.”

It’s even creepier when you learn that Michelle is talking about an actual Obama program.

Palin is visiting Omaha in Nebraska today - which is a sure sign things are getting shaky, because the Reps shouldn’t need to send the VP candidate there. However, the Dems think a district is in play there, and Nebraska is one of two states that splits its EC votes proportionately.

I don’t Mesquito. If we tweak Michelle’s remarks a little bit to change the meaning (that’s what everyone does in elections, right?) we get.

“Barack Obama will require you to sit around doing nothing. He is going to demand that you sneer and pick fights with people. That you fight pointless reasons to oppose people. That you shun the company of others, that you stick to your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be worse. And that you don’t engage. Barack will insist that you continue your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.”

Finally, a manifesto all those of us who enjoy arguing about politics online can get behind.

They are also having to spend money in Indiana, a state that Kerry lost by 20 points.

Mesquito, presumably you’ve seen this video?
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/04/video-the-obligatory-obama-youth-fraternity/

Scary or just laughable, I’m not quite sure. (Not like the one with the little kids singing, that’s scary any way you cut it). Either way, I find it hard to imagine how a sentient human being could buy into it.

Wll, G., I have an older sister, very scientific and even atheistic, who approaches each subsequent Left mania with the fervor of a Pentacostal. She’s been this way for decades. She has now forsaken Al Gore’s Climate Crusade for Obama’s Brave New World.

The guilt-by-association shtick can work both ways, folks.

Gene, I realise that you are worried about the problems for your chums in Big Oil posed by a Palin vise-presidency; I also recognise your distress that large corporations will not receive their trade advantages promised in an Obama Presidency.

Nevertheless you crossed the line with your crass racial innnuendo. You should apologise to all native Americans that you have accused of treason and claimed should be subjected to the same treatment as the Confederacy.