Harry's Place

Seeing as they can’t get ‘peace and unity’ in the Islamic countries, what makes them think they can spread it worldwide?

Given the nutter TuTu’s continual demonisation of Israel with blood libels and false labels of Apartheid I think he deserves a special mention too as a radical extremist.

Global Peace and Unity, in this context, is clearly a euphemism.

It is very clear what sort of “peace” and “unity” this lot are promoting.

More vicious anti-Muslim hate from this nasty little Zionist hate-site

There has never been an antisemitic terrorist that Tutu didn’t like.

David T,

May I have your permission to send your post to Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr.? I’d send it to his dad but I don’t know his email address.

I have to disagree in part with the demonisation of Desmond Tutu. I don’t feel that he is antisemitic.

However, I feel that by associating with the sort of extremists on the wholly misnamed ‘global peace and unity’ event he is tainting himself by association with the sort of extremists who give groups like the SWP a wet dream.

The other area where Tutu can be legitimately criticised is in showing a lack of judgement in backing this event and his participation in it.

I’ve met Rev Tutu and found him a genuinely humane man who fought a disgusting divisive regime. However whilst once the possessor of a formidable poltitical intellect he has slipped and come under the influence of anti Zionist extremists who cloak their racist bile with a liberal/social democratic honey coating.

I think those of us who have an interest in how Israel is run (I’m a Zionist who would like to see Israel in peace with its neighbours btw) have to be extremely careful not only in the choice of words that we use but also the sort of people that we allow to sign up as supporters.

If I was writing something that was critical of israel then I for one would never accept support from groups such as the SWP/SPSC/IJV/Respect etc etc on the grounds that associating with such groups is counterproductive to the cause of peace.

I think all groups / individuals who want to engage positively with the situaition in the Middle East should make very sure that those who sign up to support them are not the same organisations who are trying to destabilise community relations both at home and overseas. If I see groups such as Respect / LMHR / SWP involved in a cause then I steer clear of becoming involved myself.

The average decent person wouldn’t tolerate support for their cause coming from the BNP as this party is anathama to the idea of democracy and its high time that progressive groups treated the SWP and all their front groups and other deluded nutters on the far left in the same way.

David T is a bit of a political anorak, but this is good work!

Sadiq Khan – Minister for Community Cohesion.

You couldn’t make this shit up!

Is there any possibility that listening to the ranting of extremists could wake up these Labour politicians?

There has never been an antisemitic terrorist that Tutu didn’t like.

I have a rather nifty Czech Brno 452 model 2E cal .22LR rifle which I’ve named ‘Desmond’ in Tutu’s honour…..Desmond 22….geddit!

My son just loves it for demolishing ice cubes, bottle tops and 9mm cases, it really should be compulsory kit for all small boys.

Oh and my push-bike’s named ‘Norman’.

agreed Trundlemaster,

there is a distinctive difference between people that are motivated by a hatred of Jews, those that use it and still, those that are ill informed on these topics and inadvertently get drawn in, such as Tutu. They are not one and the same.

I do wish Nearly Oxfordian and Co. would sit back and think on that matter

Please pass this on to whoever you’d like to.

Trundlemaster (and mod) – spot on.

Nick SA. Of course New Labour has criminalized ownership of .22 guns now, I think. Be thankful you’re not in this country! I’m sure Prof. Geras is very proud to have your bike named after him.

“I have a rather nifty Czech Brno 452 model 2E cal .22LR rifle which I’ve named ‘Desmond’ in Tutu’s honour…..Desmond 22….geddit! ”

2:2 degree results have been called “Desmonds” for years and years.

A friend of mine sat next to Desmond Tutu and asked him if he knew that his name was commonly used in this manner.

He did not, but was amused.

Trundlemaster (and mod) – spot on

Nick SA. Of course New Labour has criminalized ownership of .22 guns now, I think. Be thankful you’re not in this country. I’m sure Prof. Geras is very proud to have your bike named after him.

Labour ministers are sleepwalking into this. They haven’t got a clue who they’re talking to or why. They just want pix of themselves surrounded by smiling brown faces. The only hope is that the election disaster they’re also sleepwalking into culls them all.

Timms and Khan are clearly convinced that all Muslims are dangerous head-loppers and the only option is to beg them to chop someone’s else’s head off instead.

They should call this the “Peace in our time” conference. They are feasting with panthers.

“Feasting with panthers” – in the sense that Oscar Wilde and former GPU Speaker, Simon Hughes would understand it – would result in death, under the system favoured by many of these people.

Khan actually said we should feel the degradation of modern Muslims in the context of Hitler and the Germans after Versailles. He used this example to accentuate the reason for “Muslim rage” — there was poor Germany belittled and humiliated, like the Muslim world today.

The sense of degradation comes from knowing deep-down that everything you believe in is horseshit, and that you’ve been had, and royally so, by a worhtless desert brigand.

And by the way…and this is also the case with Canda’s muslims… a significant proportion of the muslim community supports these type of people.

And the fact that Labour politicians choose to participate in such events makes the BNP look positively attractive for ordinary, bleu-collar Brits.

Over here we had senior representatives of Canda’s NDP ( our version of Labour) attending a shindig featuring none other than the repugnant Yvonne Ridley as guest speaker.

The Islamist fascist who organised the engagement, and who never addresses a non-muslim without wagging her index finger, is now running for the NDP in the current national elections.

She has convinced a bunch of clueless socialists, who haven’t the brains of a knat, that she’s a ‘progressive’.

She was booted out of Morocco for extremism, after which she was booted out of France ( for the same reaons), only to wash up here like some unwanted piece of wet, stinking drift-wood.

Why is no one willing to take these politicians aside and explain to them just what this version of islam stands for?

Large portions of the muslim communities presently inhabiting western countires are literally at war with us, and their supremacist sense of entitlement and superiority preclude any possibility of either entente or détente.

So why the hell are we tolerating these viscious ‘green’ Nazis as though it were the moral thing to do?

When are we going to puncture these intolerant, bloated gasbags?

That Stephen Timms is a well known Nazi infiltrater. Not as bad as Imran Khan mind – he failed the cricket test. Just cos he married a Goldsmith doesn’t mean he’s stopped reading Mein Kampf, you know. Is that German lady from the SWP going to be there as well, Lindsay whatshername? Maybe she’ll come in uniform like that racing car guy used to come in his. Nobody should be surprised about Desmond Tutu, he’s a mad mullah, a guy who nearly went to Oxford told me… (cont. page 794 ‘Protocols of Harry’s Place’)

Is there any possibility that listening to the ranting of extremists could wake up these Labour politicians?

Go back to the month post 7/7 when Blair stood outside No 10 with various Muslim community leaders around him and said that the people who carried-out 7/7 were people following a “perversion of Islam”. At that moment Blair became a dupe.

Satanism is a perversion of Christianity and I can buy 2,000 books on Satanism. Tell me where I buy a book that details a “perversion of Islam”. There IS only one book and its called The Koran.

Blair then assembled a group of Muslims who were supposed to speak for the Community and bring forward a plan by the end of that year. Remember one of the ideas leaked? “Muslims find Holocaust Memorial Day offensive. So stop it!”

At that point the Govt realised there was hardly any such thing as the moderate Muslim Community representative they sought and all the recommendations were thrown in the bin, where they belonged.

The Govt keeps on running down the same track and guess what – they find that same old radical tosh that tells them that We are Wrong and They are Right.

Why don’t we start moving through the radical preacher community and start arresting people for a change? Why don’t we send a message that we are a tolerant people who have lost tolerance because our goodwill is taken advantage of?

John P said: “And the fact that Labour politicians choose to participate in such events makes the BNP look positively attractive for ordinary, bleu-collar Brits.”

This is what is worrying me. The BNP have made great capital about how the ‘liberal elite’ (their words) have ignored the plight of the white working class Brits and the particiapation of Labour ministers in what is probably going to turn into a ‘kick the Jews / Christians’ type of event is going to a) backfire on Nu Labour and b) boost the bnp in their target areas.

BTW I normally disagree with John P’s anti Islam stance but I do feel that he is correct in his opinion that for Nu Labour ministers to attend what is essentially a divisive event will cause problems in the future.

We must be extremely careful that by our actions as a democratic society we do not inadvertantly feed the fascism of the far right white nationalists and the far right of the Islamists. Backing this event looks to me like feeding fascism inadvertantly.

Criticising Tutu’s loving association with antisemitic murderers is not ‘demonisation’, but simply stating a fact.

I agree that SWP should be shunned by all decent people.

Excellent post, Maven.

Zin

Can you tell me whether you object to any politician who promotes the following views?

- “it is better to be a Muslim under these conditions than to be a kaffir under any conditions”

- “Hitler never intended to mass-destroy the Jews. There are a number of books out on this written by Christians, you should read them. The Hoax of the Holocaust, I advise you to read this book and write this down, the Hoax of the Holocaust, a very good book”

- “that missiles were fired at the Twin Towers from “pods” affixed to the underside of the planes that struck them”

- “He recounted being confronted by a fellow Pakistani after 9/11 who asked, “Do you not feel ashamed?” and he told the adoring crowd he did not see what there was to be ashamed of”

- “Roll up a newspaper and give her a crack. Or take a yardstick, something like this, and you can hit.”

- “He described Yassin as “one of the greatest inspirations” to Muslims and quoted with approval Yassin’s teaching that “whoever dies, without having fought in the way of Allah or even having desire to fight in the way of Allah, dies on a twing of hypocrisy”. ”

- “If someone exploded a bomb on his body he would be right to do so unless the British government apologises and withdraws [Rushdie's] the ’sir’ title”

Here’s some other questions

- Would you approve of a Government minister sharing a platform with a white fascist who advocated beating women?

- Would you approve of a Government minister sharing a platform with a white fascist who claimed that the Holocaust was a hoax?

- Would you approve of a Government minister sharing a platform with a white fascist who claimed ” it is better to be a white man under these conditions than to be a nigger under any conditions”?

If your reaction is different, depending on whether the person is Muslim or non-Muslim: can I ask you why you have such low expectations of Muslims?

Are you an Islamophobe?

I never quite know what Zin is rambling on about in any of his posts – no sane person can follow his ignorant drivel – but it looks as though he is another twat who thinks that my screen name means that I ‘nearly went to Oxford’.

Who knows, John? The sheer stupidity and ignorance of the people our countries elect to high office, I suppose.

Can you post a bit less, NO

thx

Make I ask David if this is helpful at all? How come that government ministers share a podium with a bunch of crooks after so many posts of yours? After all this is not the first rally organized by the GOP!

Do you see any improvement since you have started writing about Muslim Brothers “moderates” and their relations with the government, or are these only some futile attempts of yours to raise a bit public awareness to this issue? Is there anyone else in the media writing about this things?

I am sorry for asking so many questions but in this case these politicians could not have missed the nature of this organization. Isn’t there anybody who cares?

Trundlemaster: I have written on HP in some detail in the past about my huge admiration for Tutu in the context of working together during the struggle on a trial of an ANC youth sentenced to death. Because of this, my bitter dismay was all the greater at his embracing of the notorious powerful antisemitic Jewish lobby trope speaking in the USA and writing here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/29/comment
Nothing he has subsequently said has ameliorated that statement.

No.

Yes, I believe that Hazel Blears and the people who count in this Government care very much indeed about this issue.

They have a very difficult task: which is basically to bolster moderate politics without appearing to be ’sponsoring’ it, while avoiding the various Islamist front organisations.

Events like this – and IslamExpo – have a very very strong – indeed dominant – Islamist component. That is partly a result of the rise of that politics globally. There’s another thing too. Parts of the British Muslim community has probably been significantly radicalised, and does now think of Islamist and jihadist politics as being their own olitics. The Government knows this.

However, perhaps the thinking is that these events are so high profile, they can no longer be ignored or avoided.

Ahmed will attend this event because he isn’t a million miles away from its politics himself.

As for the other two, I don’t know. Khan and Timms may be clueless. However, the nature of past GPUs and IslamExpos are such, that they really can’t not have known.

So, possibly, these Ministers are not unsympathetic to Islamism.

Both Khan and Timms have special responsibilities for “community cohesion”. I find that very depressing.

What I am particularly concerned by is that these two may have bought into the line that we must hand over the British Muslim community to Islamists who promise only to commit terrorist acts abroad, and delegate to them the job of keeping British Muslims out of the hands of Al Qaeda.

2:2 degree results have been called “Desmonds” for years and years.

Thirds have been called “Douglases” for a similar reason.

Ami said: “Trundlemaster: I have written on HP in some detail in the past about my huge admiration for Tutu in the context of working together during the struggle on a trial of an ANC youth sentenced to death. Because of this, my bitter dismay was all the greater at his embracing of the notorious powerful antisemitic Jewish lobby trope speaking in the USA and writing here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/29/comment
Nothing he has subsequently said has ameliorated that statement.”

Ami, I also have great admiration for Desmond Tutu and although he has acknowledge the contribution made by Jews in South Africa in the struggle against apartheid he has made a grave error in lining up with the useful idiots of the Palesrtinians = good / Israelis = bad sort.

The situation in the middle east needs a subtle approach if there is to be a just settlement that compensates those Palestinians who were displaced during the upheavals of 1948 and gives Israel security. What is not helpful to the situation is having great men in the twilight of their powers being used to push what are essentially racist memes promulgated by various sort of fascists and cheered on by the extreme left in the UK and elsewhere.

Yes, my friend also had a similar conversation with Lord Hurd. He also didn’t know. He was less amused.

David T

Your website is reading more and more like the BNP every day.

One of your linked articles suggests that the Muslims are taking over and that “Americans, Jews, Israelis and Hindus get out of here [Britain] as soon as possible.”

After attacking a Muslim event, the author juxtaposes Muslims & Jews: To read what 15,000 Jewish youth do when they convene, go to…
http://www.currentviewpoint.com/cgibin/news.cgi?id=11&command=shownews&newsid=826

‘Evil Muslims. Civilised Jews.’ This is the language and modus operandi of the BNP. And your website signs up to it with enthusiasm.

HP also regularly promotes fascists in Venezuela who overthrew an elected socialist government and abolished parliament.

Yes, my friend also had a similar conversation with Lord Hurd. He also didn’t know. He was less amused.

He should be relieved, given the alternatives.

Zin

Can you not answer my questions?

You are the BNPer – you clearly believe that Muslims are wife beaters, supporters of terrorism, 9/11 truthers. When you read these views, you can’t condemn them as extreme, because you regard them of typical of Muslims.

Or, alternatively, you share them yourself.

Mordechai V: More vicious anti-Muslim hate from this nasty little Zionist hate-site

You missed out the link to that.

Nearly Oxfordian: No

Oh go on.

Just read the BBC news website for this afternoon and see that a Pakistani bombmule has blown up 15 tribal elders at a meeting near the Afghani border. The West really needs to hammer home that these people cannot offer ‘peace and unity’ to anyone, not even themselves. Young Muslims need to be made aware of the complete deadend that is being offered to them. I also think that these people who claim they want to reassert Islamic civilization should go out to the Islamic countries and work to ‘modernise’ them rather than subvert the West.

How about an invitation for Zin to “post a bit less”, David.

Jeez.

Zin is at least amusingly stupid.

Maven at 2.05 pm: “At that point the Govt realised there was hardly any such thing as the moderate Muslim Community representative they sought and all the recommendations were thrown in the bin, where they belonged.”

And what about the Young Muslims Advisory Group recently set up?

From the National Youth Agency website:

“Direct access to ministers and policy-makers to feed into the design of government policy with young people shaping the agenda.”

This is what is worrying me. The BNP have made great capital about how the ‘liberal elite’ (their words) have ignored the plight of the white working class Brits and the particiapation of Labour ministers in what is probably going to turn into a ‘kick the Jews / Christians’ type of event is going to a) backfire on Nu Labour and b) boost the bnp in their target areas.

I completely agree with you. I posted an L.A. Times article about this on another thread a few days ago that analysed the recent Far rRght gains in Austria.

There isn’t a lot of *support* for the Far Right. What at first appears to be support is, in fact, a cry of desperation aimed at unresponsive and irresponsable elites who simply refuse to face issues that everyone else can see are of the utmost importance.

All of this comes at a time when the economy is collapsing world-wide.

As long as The West’s ‘diversity, was suspended in (distracted by?) a happy union of consumption, all of it kited on paper-money, the social fractures and fault-lines could be masked.

What happens, though, when unemployment skyrockets and millions of seething, restive immigrants, some of whom are from a culture hostile to our own, find themselves permenantly without work?

The party’s over, but our boomer politicians, with their glamour-puss conceit, their careerism and their selfish ambitions simply aren’t in the business of taking risks, whether those risks be political or personnal.

And so the Far right, by default, waltzes right up the main aisle.

Will the economic crisis be a flash in the pan? If not, and if it deepens, will many traditional political formations end up going the way of the dodo?

“Do you still beat your wife?”

Absolutely classic, David T.

Zin is at least amusingly stupid.

Thank you for that 5 minute chuckle. :D

No, Zin

I’m asking you to answer a simple question.

Do you think that Government Minsters should be sharing a platform with Muslim speakers who advocate these views?

Yes or no?

Do you think that Government Ministers should share a platform with non-Muslim speakers who advocate these views?

Yes or no?

Of course, you won’t answer me, because you can’t.

…And no, I don’t think you’re stupid, Nearly Oxfordian. But you are a tad bit abusive. I recommend engaging commenters (even the kooky ones) without some of the colorful adjectives.

If I can digress, that’s precisely the point.

There’s nothing more annoying than seeing threads degenerate into the slinging of facile insults at each other.

John P Said: “There isn’t a lot of *support* for the Far Right. What at first appears to be support is, in fact, a cry of desperation aimed at unresponsive and irresponsable elites who simply refuse to face issues that everyone else can see are of the utmost importance.”

Racist nutters and the parties that form around such views have always been with us to a certain extent. The Jews, Germans, Italians Poles have all been the target of xenophobia from Brits of all political persuasions.

I do think however that the actions of the Govts in the UK by sweeping tensions under the carpet instead of taking the sensible approach of dealing with and defusing tensions and drawing a line in the sand over what is and what is not acceptable behaviour is going to have reprecussions.

I don’t happen to think that every muslim is a bomb wearing Jew hating headcase but the fact that Britain hasn’t dealt harshly enough with extremists in the Muslim community has emboldened the white nationalist far right. This is counterproductive both to the average muslim who just wants to get their head down, earn a living and quitely practice their religion and to community cohesion as a whole.

“All of this comes at a time when the economy is collapsing world-wide.”

The economic pain is going to be reflected in an increase in votes for extremists.

“As long as The West’s ‘diversity, was suspended in (distracted by?) a happy union of consumption, all of it kited on paper-money, the social fractures and fault-lines could be masked.”

I disagree with you there. Yes prosperity does help people to mix as the stress of poverty is reduced and people are more likely to see others as individuals rather than competitors for limited resources but I woudn’t say that this was ‘papering over fault lines’.

“What happens, though, when unemployment skyrockets and millions of seething, restive immigrants, some of whom are from a culture hostile to our own, find themselves permenantly without work?”

What bothers me is your phrase ‘a culture hostile to our own’ is similar to what was said about the huge influx of Ashkenazi Jews into the UK in the late 19th early 20th Century. The Jews who were seen as aliens and criminals in 1910 became model citizens
by 2000. I think part of the problem is is that those who can get out of the muslim ghettos by reason of intelligence or hard work do so but those who can’t get trapped behind and are then prey to extemist rabble rousers and their allies in disgusting groups like the SWP.

I do agree with you however when you say that when unemployment bites support for the neo nazis will go up as well.

“And so the Far right, by default, waltzes right up the main aisle.

Very worrying especially if the Left and the mainstream social democrats don’t get their arses into gear and start engaging respectfully with blue collar whites.

Is there an official line on this blog over whether people should be criticised for socialising with terrorists and extremists as this post implies or whether criticising someone for palling around with terrorists is “sliming” them?

Does it depend on whether there’s an election on?

Two different posters, Ross. Not applicable.

Desmond Tutu has indeed been an admirable and indefatigable (oh dear) champion of the oppressed. But I believe he is either naive or disingenuous. It’s very useful to be able to sit outside the muddy fields of politics and comment from a strictly moral position. In the case of the ME conflict, I believe he has got himself into a moral maze.

As for the Islamic event discussed here, I would think that the words used by extremist sympathisers on this occasion would be edited for local consumption, so as not to attract the attention of the press and push the government offside.

Blimey. The tentacles of the evil Islamist antisemitic conspiracy have now reached Desmond Tutu.

I think we can safely say the sky has fallen in. Again.

They just want pix of themselves surrounded by smiling brown faces.

Don’t let the mask slip.

Thank you for posting this David.

What bothers me is your phrase ‘a culture hostile to our own’ is similar to what was said about the huge influx of Ashkenazi Jews into the UK in the late 19th early 20th Century

Look, why should the phrase ‘hostile to our culture’ bother you?

How many times has Europe had to push back Islamic invasions? Islam has been assaulting Eruope since its very inception.

And there is absolutely NO equivalence between Ashkenazi Jews fleeing persectuion and Islamists with a viscious and supremacist mineset.

Not all muslims are Jew-haters, , nor are they all violent or chauvinistic, but the fact remains that there is a significant minority who are.

Muslim immigration sometimes isn’t immigration. Some are here as settlers and have clearly and openly stated their desire to ‘conquer’ Europe, and indeed the entire world.

Does that sound like some poor, downtrodden Ashkanazis refugee from a russian pogrom?

No equivalence. Radical islamists are not the ‘new’ Jews.

And nearly every muslim attending this gabfest is a radical Far right islamist.

Zin? ……… Zin? ………

[dust ....... tumbleweed ........]

“Before Allah closes our eyes for the last time you will see Islam move from being the second largest religion in America – that’s where we are now – to being the first religion in America.”

I don’t want this to happen, but what is wrong with a Muslim wanting it? How could any Muslim not want it?

Another GPU speaker, “Sheikh” Muhammad Alshareef, is, quite literally, a preacher of Jew hatred.

In conclusion, a fundamental part of our Deen is Al-Wala’ and Al-Bara’ (wala’ – love and loyalty / Bara’ hatred and disownment). It would be profitable for us to reflect on the implementation of our Wala’ and Bara’ in regards to the Jews: Firstly: We should not take them as our close allies. Allâh commands us in the Qur’ân: [O you who have belied, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is one of them. Indeed Allâh does not guide the wrongdoing people.] – Ma’idah 5/51

How this can be squared with the “bridge building” GPU says it is aiming for is anyone’s guess.

Alshareef also appears to think that Jews control the media. Even Seinfeld is a menace:

When I was in high school, studying in journalism class, our teacher had placed on the wall a statement that I spent many days contemplating. It simply said, “Freedom of the press (speech) belongs to those that own the press!” Who owns the press? Well, you can believe me when I say that it is not the God fearing beloved of Allâh. It is this same press that molds and programs the aqeedah of a huge section of our Ummah. Many of our brothers and sisters are illiterate to the words of Allâh and the guidance of Rasul Allâh – sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, so it is with little doubt that their ideas are subconsciously molded by what Seinfeld tells them at 8 pm every Wednesday evening.

Absolutely barking.

Sorry, the link to Alshareef on Jews is here:

http://www.islaminjersey.com/Muslims%20aqeedah/banu%20israel.htm

Thanks habibi

There is so much stuff on these guys that I’m thinking of doing a post a day on each one of them.

There is so much stuff on these guys that I’m thinking of doing a post a day on each one of them.

Could you do a post on vegetable gardening or beekeeping first, just so you don’t have the entire blog filled up with posts about Muslims.

Racist nutters and the parties that form around such views have always been with us to a certain extent. The Jews, Germans, Italians Poles have all been the target of xenophobia from Brits of all political persuasions.

True up to a point, Trundlemaster. But there has never been such vilification of Germans (even after WW2!) as there is now of Jews. Moslem leaders quite openly call for mass-murder of Jews. How many of them are prosecuted? How many of them, in contrast, are referred to (even by those laughingly known as ‘governing this country’) as ‘community leaders’?

Benji

Are you an Islamophobe?

Do you seriously believe that these articles about advocates of wife beating, terrorism, racism, conspiracy theories are articles about Muslims?

Are you seriously suggesting that articles about marginal fascist political movements within the Britihs Muslim community are articles, generally, about Muslims?

Why do you have such a low opinion of Muslims?

just so you don’t have the entire blog filled up with posts about Muslims

Since this is one of the most important issues and dangers in 2008 Britain, I don’t see why that would be a problem.

the Jews and the Christians … are allies of one another

Barking indeed.

Indeed, John P.
I would be interested to know how many of those Ashkenazi Jews called openly for a violent overthrow of the indigenous culture – or carried out mass murders in the name of their own world-view, a view that is explicitly one of world domination.

Okay I will rephrase that:

Could you do a post on vegetable gardening or beekeeping first, just so you don’t have the entire blog filled up with posts about Muslims advocating wife beating, terrorism, racism, and conspiracy theories.

Blimey. The tentacles of the evil Islamist antisemitic conspiracy have now reached Desmond Tutu

You really seem to have a problem when nobody has joined the dots for you. The statement was quite simple: Tutu hobnobs with genocidal Nazis, and repeats their propaganda openly. That is a documented fact. All your usual sneering at heads-up for antisemitism cannot change that fact.

Why not. I might if something interesting to do with beekeeping or gardening happens this weekend.

I don’t want this to happen, but what is wrong with a Muslim wanting it?

The fact that Islam calls on Muslims to implement this violently.
This is, imo, the core of the comparison with the 1930s, a comparison so often sneered at: the Nazi worldview required its followers to seek world domination. You couldn’t be one without wanting it and pledging to act to bring it about, because your nation (remember that ‘ummah’ means ‘nation’) had a built-in right to rule the world. This is what Islam says, and this is what it requires its followers to work towards.

A post on various Islamists is no more a post on Muslims than a post on the BNP is a post on whites.

Thank you again, David for an excellent post.

Global Peace and Unity, in this context, is clearly a euphemism.

Not a euphemism, David, merely a totally alien world view – you and I would call it perhaps deception, and it comes very easily to those who wish to conquer us. It is important to understand that words like peace and tolerance have wildly different meanings in Islam. “Peace” means the rule of Islam, under which there is no further need for jihad; “Unity” means the Umma, and “tolerance” means dhimmitude, under the “covenant of protection” of the Muslim rulers. We would call it a “protection racket”. I doubt if the organisers (at least the kaffirs) of this event appreciate this.

Tutu is certainly a decent man, who understands little of the hatred Israel faces daily, and has fallen for the “Apartheid” trope of the narrative of Arabs and their fellow travellers. Should he be unfortunate enough to live as a Christian (and a black one at that) in a Muslim country, he would find a new meaning of oppression that would make Dr Veorwoerd appear like Warren Hastings.

At that moment Blair became a dupe.

I am not a supporter of Blair, but towards the end of his tenure, Blair did actually get it. Unfortunately, it was too late and no one was listening.

Trundlemaster – your analysis is OK as long as things (i.e. food, energy, housing, security) do not get too bad. If things really do get bad, then John P’s (and Enoch Powell’s) analysis will probably prevail. How bad? Who knows, and there will be other factors to swing it either way.

I would remind you that in 1931 the Nazis got 3% of the vote and Hitler was a joke. In 1933 the Nazis got 33%, and Hitler was “hired” as Chancellor. What happened in between? The banks collapsed (sound familiar?). The people who voted Nazi were not pathological Nazis, they had just had enough of the Treaty of Versailles, the previous governments that kowtowed to it, and to the Allied powers who dumped them when things got tough. There is no Churchill at the moment pointing out uncomfortable truths, and when the only group that is is the BNP, be very afraid.

I am, indeed, very afraid, as was Enoch Powell 40 years ago – he identified the threat, but was just a bit off target and perhaps over paranoid. Our culture has become brittle, its resources are overstretched and we now have crippling debt. This multicultural society, with its “diversity” (i.e. fragmented communities, vacuous culture of celebrity and self-gratification, and self denigrating leadership) cannot endure prolonged hardship, like that which may well be coming our way. If so, History will remember the New Labour social policy as an experiment that led this country to the brink of catastrophe.

“Yes, I believe that Hazel Blears and the people who count in this Government care very much indeed about this issue.”

I think that Gordon Brown should care that his ministers attend such an event. If he doesn’t, shouldn’t the Tories or the Telegraph bait him for that, at least a bit? Why do I have the impression that nobody cares? Perhaps I’m wrong.

“Ahmed will attend this event because he isn’t a million miles away from its politics himself. ”

In which sense? Is he a holocaust denier? A 9/11 conspiracy theorist? Perhaps he bits his disobedient wife with a newspaper or opts for the yard stick directly?

If any of the above is true, how comes that someone like that is a government minister?

“They have a very difficult task: which is basically to bolster moderate politics without appearing to be ’sponsoring’ it, while avoiding the various Islamist front organisations.”

That reminds me that in the 70’s and early 80’s the IDF had supported the “Jamaat El Islamiyah” (headed by Ahmed Yassin) in Gaza. They thought at that time that he can counterweight the PLO (which eventually he did). At that time the Muslim Brothers in Palestine believed that first Muslim have to embrace their religion and only then the infidels should be fought against. The Islamic revolution in Iran have, of course, changed their Philosophy, but beforehand Yassin was able to leverage IDF support to become politically powerful.

It is almost unnecessary to say that the IDF knew a lot better at that time who he was dealing with than the labour party leaders promoting “moderate” politics. Perhaps if they don’t have a clue, they should do other things instead?

Tutu hobnobs with genocidal Nazis, and repeats their propaganda openly.

Blimey. I heard of the big tent approach in politics, but…

Another GPU speaker, Abdul Wahid Pedersen of Denmark, appears to believe that other Danes should build bridges to him, and then grovel. Here he is on insufficient apologies for the MoToons:

“If I slap you in the face, it is ridiculous to say afterwards that I am sorry it hurt you, but I am not sorry I slapped you,” he says. “We cannot accept the excuse of freedom of speech as meaning freedom to insult. Freedom of speech is the right of the smaller man to kick the establishment without it crushing him. It does not give one group the unquestionable right to slander; that is abuse of freedom of speech. We want a proper apology.”

Got that? Apologise! Then shut up!

Here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1509668/The-tinder-box.html

“As long as The West’s ‘diversity, was suspended in (distracted by?) a happy union of consumption, all of it kited on paper-money, the social fractures and fault-lines could be masked.”

I don’t think that’s true of the attitude of the general public at all. There has been general apprehension and distrust for a number of years. It just hasn’t been reported in the media. It became a radioactive topic years ago, just after the muslims in this country went crazy over the Rushdie affair. And it tended to stay that way until CH4 broke ranks with the Despatches broadcast.

And for those who subscribe to the theory of a substantial moderate majority within the islamic community: Why are truly moderate islamic advocacy groups so pathetically undersubscribed, and why aren’t they locking antlers with the militants?

I reckon the politicians involved in this particular event are in no doubt about the views of the speakers. This is just a masquerade, in which the speakers pretend not to be anti-semites, and the audience pretend to believe them, then the BBC pretends to report on the nature of the proceedings.

Meanwhile, how many Britons are quietly pretending that they aren’t going to vote for the BNP?

I’m wondering how the original author can so confidently claim who is attending? The is no source or sources for those claims, and no date or place for the event.

And for those who subscribe to the theory of a substantial moderate majority within the islamic community: Why are truly moderate islamic advocacy groups so pathetically undersubscribed, and why aren’t they locking antlers with the militants?

Because the “moderate majority” doesn’t rip people’s arms out of there sockets when they lose. “Militants” have been known to do that. :D

DavidT

Perhaps you can answer the following:

#This is a tendency common to certain white liberals, Islamists, and out and out Islamophobes. They read a piece that, coming from a Christian, Jew, athiest – even Hindu or Sikh – they’d find repellent. However, if it comes from a Muslim, they treat it as the mark of authenticity.

It is noble savagery.
#

The Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph ran the following stories:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560231/Public-pool-bars-father-son-Muslim-swimming-session.html

Public pool bars father and son from its ‘Muslim-only’ swimming session

A father and his five-year-old son were turned away from their local swimming pool because they were the wrong religion.
David Toube, 39, and his son Harry were told that the Sunday morning session was reserved for Muslim men only.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1895962/%27Non-Muslim%27-father-banned-from-London-pool.html

‘Non-Muslim’ father banned from London pool

By Graham Tibbetts
Last Updated: 2:24AM BST 21 Apr 2008

A father has described his anger after he and his son were refused entry to their local swimming pool because they weren’t Muslims.

The pool also has sessions only for Haredi jewish women

“David Toube is experiencing great problems trying to go for a swim with his son at Clissold Leisure Centre at Stoke Newington, North London. He turned up one Sunday morning only to find that the pool operated a women only policy on Sunday mornings, mainly to meet the needs of Haredi Jewish women. ”
http://athinkingman.wordpress.com/2008/04/20/pandering-to-apartheid/

Now DavidT (David Touble) intially the story appeared in the Jewish Chronicle and concerned your wife- somehow the link to the Jewish Chronicle story stated “page not found”. You also write for the Jewish chronicle.

Could I ask if you cynically engineered the story about being refused entry to swimming pool becuase you were not a muslim after you wife had been refused intially, given you did not report or make a fuss about not being allowed entry to swimming pool becuase you were not a haredi jewish women?

Perhaps you can link to the story that appeared in Jewish chronicle about your wife and the swimming pool or explain why the link states page not found?

here is the link to JC and the first story:

http://www.thejc.com/home.aspx?ParentId=m11s18&SecId=18&AId=57632&ATypeId=1

Goddammit. bitten by the their-they’re-there bug.

When faced with evidence of outright racism, intolerance, bigotry and general loopiness, the best that Zin can muster is -

HP regularly promotes fascists in Venezuela who overthrew an elected socialist government and abolished parliament.

Of course, that is an outright lie, but it is interesting how he wheels that little “factoid” out every time he’s confronted with some uncomfortable truth that doesn’t quite fit into his sad little binary view of the world.

Perversely, it is blindingly obvious to any neutral observer that this tactic is actually a strange and long-winded way of admitting that HP has a point.

Why he doesn’t just say that instead of engaging in such tedious and transparent whataboutery? It would save him and us a lot of time.

I don’t think that’s true of the attitude of the general public at all. There has been general apprehension and distrust for a number of years. It just hasn’t been reported in the media. It became a radioactive topic years ago, just after the muslims in this country went crazy over the Rushdie affair. And it tended to stay that way until CH4 broke ranks with the Despatches broadcast.

I agree with you when you say that the Islamist debate in British society did properly get going after the Rushdie affair. I don’t totally agree with you about the general level of apprehension and mistrust in relations between UK society and Muslims. There are a huge number of work and personal relationships between Muslims and non Muslims and people do exchange knowledge about religions to a much greater extent than in the past. I think its important to distinguish between Islam as practised on an individual level and the mob mentality of Islamism which I do see as a form of fascism. There are divided communities and I think that blame for these divided communities doesn’t lie with just one community but with both sides of the division. And in any division there will be those who exploit it, the Nationalist Fascists and the Islamofascists in this case.

And for those who subscribe to the theory of a substantial moderate majority within the islamic community: Why are truly moderate islamic advocacy groups so pathetically undersubscribed, and why aren’t they locking antlers with the militants?

Moderate muslims like moderate Jews and Christians are probably just getting on with life, working, playing praying and loving just like the rest of us. However, in the circumstances I feel that the Government could take a big step to ceasing to pour oil on troubled waters by making high profile moves to engage with progressive muslims whose voice is not heard, sometimes because of community pressure and sometimes because of ingnorance on the part of Govt advisors. Hey I’d rather see more coverage and high level contact groups such as the LGBT Muslims, the secular muslims, the feminist muslims etc than the tub thumpers. An analogy with this is if the only Christians that were engaged with were the Plymouth Brethren and the only Jews so engaged with were the strictest Charedim. It gives a false impression of each religion and this is what I believe has happened with Government engagement with Muslims.

I reckon the politicians involved in this particular event are in no doubt about the views of the speakers. This is just a masquerade, in which the speakers pretend not to be anti-semites, and the audience pretend to believe them, then the BBC pretends to report on the nature of the proceedings.

I’m pretty sure that the politicians must (or should) have been tipped off by their advisers as to the background of the participants and disregarded some of the more unenlightened attitudes of them or as a busy minister agreed without thinking. Unless the govt is playing a double bluff with these people or currying favour with Arab and Muslim countries I can’t see what is to be gained by Ministers associating themselves with such groups.

Meanwhile, how many Britons are quietly pretending that they aren’t going to vote for the BNP?

This is something that I worry about immensely. They are positioning themselves as a viable alternative to New Labour in some areas. If the economy tanks under Browns watch then I can see many people seeing that that you can’t get a cigarette paper between Tories and New Labour voting for the bnp. Its a worrying time coming up. We now have a situation where there are now two lots of hard right extremists and the traditional enemy of fascism The Left appears to have aligned itself with one group of extremists.

The British Government ministers have met and hosted Ariel Sharon who was personally held responsible by his own government for being culpable for the massacre of Palestinian men, women and children (war crimes) at Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon in 1980s and was made to resign as defence minister.

“We have found, as has been detailed in this report, that the Minister of Defense [Ariel Sharon] bears personal responsibility. In our opinion, it is fitting that the Minister of Defense draw the appropriate personal conclusions arising out of the defects revealed with regard to the manner in which he discharged the duties of his office – and if necessary, that the Prime Minister consider whether he should exercise his authority under Section 21-A(a) of the Basic Law: the Government, according to which “the Prime Minister may, after informing the Cabinet of his intention to do so, remove a minister from office”

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Foreign%20Relations/Israels%20Foreign%20Relations%20since%201947/1982-1984/104%20Report%20of%20the%20Commission%20of%20Inquiry%20into%20the%20e

This is one example , what are your thoughts DavidT?

Also about the electrorate electing Sharon as prime minister given his past record?

Will you apply the same standards for all DavidT?

Yes Jim, what about the Jews?

Nobody ever badmouths them!

Oh, and since Jesse Jackson will be at ExCel too, let’s not forget Hymietown:

Rev. Jesse Jackson referred to Jews as “Hymies” and to New York City as “Hymietown” in January 1984 during a conversation with a black Washington Post reporter, Milton Coleman. Jackson had assumed the references would not be printed because of his racial bond with Coleman, but several weeks later Coleman permitted the slurs to be included far down in an article by another Post reporter on Jackson’s rocky relations with American Jews. A storm of protest erupted, and Jackson at first denied the remarks, then accused Jews of conspiring to defeat him. The Nation of Islam’s radical leader Louis Farrakhan, an aggressive anti-Semite and old Jackson ally, made a difficult situation worse by threatening Coleman in a radio broadcast and issuing a public warning to Jews, made in Jackson’s presence: “If you harm this brother [Jackson], it will be the last one you harm.”

What a lovely group GPU has assembled!

Well, there certainly is a “Unity” at this event.

Not a particularly savoury kind of unity, but unity nonetheless.

MarkT

You agree with DavidT tactics of engineering the muslim pool story?

Can you ask DavidT to post the actual story concerning his wife and son which appeared in the Jewish Chronicle? – for some reason it is not available anymore.

MarkT

Do you agree with DavidT tactics of engineering the muslim pool story?

Can you ask DavidT to post the actual story concerning his wife and son which appeared in the Jewish Chronicle? – for some reason it is not available anymore.

Can you post a bit less, NO

This is not your personal blog, David, arsehole, old chap.

Imran Khan – if he’s the one I am thinking about – should remind himself what the penalty for fornication under Shariah law is.

And he should remind himself that a Muslim voluntarily submits to Shariah, the law of God.

Let me fourth (or, maybe, more by the time I post) Trundlemaster.

The British Government ministers have met and hosted Ariel Sharon who was personally held responsible by his own government for being culpable for the massacre of Palestinian men, women and children (war crimes) at Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon in 1980s and was made to resign as defence minister.

He was the Executive head of a soverign state’s government, so diplomatic protocol at least demanded it. Plus, personal responsibility is different from the direct responsibility you’re, without a doubt, implying he was guilty of. This was held by Elie Hobeika. Do you believe Belgian prosecutors should have refused to entertain him?

Alex, may I point out that this is not my comment as you have stated below it was the poster called Jim.

However, I do agree that diplomatic protocol would put any ideas of an aggressive action off the radar.

Let me fourth (or, maybe, more by the time I post) Trundlemaster.

The British Government ministers have met and hosted Ariel Sharon who was personally held responsible by his own government for being culpable for the massacre of Palestinian men, women and children (war crimes) at Sabra and Shatila in Lebanon in 1980s and was made to resign as defence minister.

He was the Executive head of a soverign state’s government, so diplomatic protocol at least demanded it. Plus, personal responsibility is different from the direct responsibility you’re, without a doubt, implying he was guilty of. This was held by Elie Hobeika. Do you believe Belgian prosecutors should have refused to entertain him?

I am delighted to send a message of support to the organizers and attendees at the Global Peace and Unity event. This hugely significant event in London does much to promote global cohesion across all communities; it increases understanding and encourages dialogue throughout the Muslim community and beyond.

Sez Boris to a festival of Jew haters, as documented in this thread and so many other places.

Oh dear, Britain is so f***ed up.

A Borisgaffe if ever there was one.

Apologies for the ambiguity, Trundlemaster. It was always intended to have been attributed to Earthworm Jim. I don’t like to see it, but I do find it instructive when a thread about haters of Jews individually is directed towards Israel.

The first comment was directed towards you, though. You rock.

Jim, you silly berk.

There was no ‘engineering’ for the quite simple reason that there were two separate incidents, which you have fused together in a rather baffling attempt to construct some kind of conspiracy.

The first one involved his wife, him and his son, and took place in January.

The second (which was reported in the mainstream press) involved him and his son, and took place in April.

Why the Jewish Chronicle article is no longer on-line, I have no idea, but David’s account is here on HP.

Can you ask DavidT to post the actual story concerning his wife and son which appeared in the Jewish Chronicle?

No need to ask, it was here all along!

C4 Dispatches is another evil plotting outfit, by the way. So sez Yasir Qadhi, another GPU speaker and IslamChannel dude.

Also, homosexuality is an “aberration against God”.

Aux barricades, anyone?

#It was always intended to have been attributed to Earthworm Jim.#

Yes this does make your argument more convincing assuming you had one.

MarkT

Was there a story about DavidT, his wife and son when they were refused becuase there was haredi jewish women swimming session only, featured in the Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph?

In the IslamChannel vid Yasir Qadhi says (6.5 minutes in):

How reassuring!

John P said:”What bothers me is your phrase ‘a culture hostile to our own’ is similar to what was said about the huge influx of Ashkenazi Jews into the UK in the late 19th early 20th Century

Look, why should the phrase ‘hostile to our culture’ bother you?”

It bothers me because the same and similar phrases were used by the Nazis in the 1930s.
John P said:”
How many times has Europe had to push back Islamic invasions? Islam has been assaulting Eruope since its very inception.”

I don’t deny that. Buts that’s not to say that needs to be the future. Islamism as a philosophy is a danger to many not just the west but to many in the Muslim world as well. Islamism needs to be countered but its wrong to conflate ordinary Muslims with the ideology. All religions have dodgy bits in them and their scriptures and Islamism builds on those.
John P said:”
And there is absolutely NO equivalence between Ashkenazi Jews fleeing persectuion and Islamists with a viscious and supremacist mineset.”

I wasn’t drawing an equivalence between the two but ordinary Muslims came here for a better life as others have before. Where the Government has taken its eye off of the ball is by not being curious enough about Muslims and the internal politics of the different Islamic movements and cultural groups. This meant that nothing was done to stop the Saudis pumping money and resources into a very conservative, harsh interpretation of Islam. The numerous lucrative arms contracts also contributed to nothing being done to stop this going on. Governments have done a disservice to the general populations of many other religions and Muslims who may have other voices which are a synthesis of the Muslim and British experience. By lying down with the conservatives Governments have silenced those progressive UK centric Muslim narratives.
John P said:”
Not all muslims are Jew-haters, , nor are they all violent or chauvinistic, but the fact remains that there is a significant minority who are.”

There is more likely a significant number of blowhards who rant and rant about the iniquities of the decadent west on the fringe of Islamist politics and a much smaller number of the mentally unstable and the religious extremists.

I can certainly agree with you that not all Muslims are Jew haters.
John P said:”
Muslim immigration sometimes isn’t immigration. Some are here as settlers and have clearly and openly stated their desire to ‘conquer’ Europe, and indeed the entire world.”

Although I accept that Islamism is a danger there will as I said before always be those who shout the odds about desires to conquer Europe etc etc. Doesn’t mean its going to happen.
John P said:”
Does that sound like some poor, downtrodden Ashkanazis refugee from a russian pogrom?”

A lot of Muslims came here looking for work in a similar manner and don’t forget that not a few Muslims came here because they were fleeing oppression in the former colonies where they had originally been brought as bonded labour. They were attacked by the majority population in former African possessions and had more connection with the UK than India.

John P said:”No equivalence. Radical islamists are not the ‘new’ Jews.”

I didn’t make a direct equivalence between E European Jews and Islamists but there are aspects that are similar into the reasons why individual people moved here, some came for work and some came for refuge. There is a difference between Islamism and a follower of Islam the religion.

Yes this does make your argument more convincing assuming you had one.

Dry your eyes. You have accused British Government and Israeli officials of far worse than name-calling on the Internet.

Now back to what I asked you…

So the Kahane commission into the role of sharon in the massacre of palestinians was a lie according to you?

Further why did Sharon resign as defence minister if he did nothing wrong?

I did not make any accusations but stated the facts.

Now is there any condmenation someone involved in the massacre of Palestinian men, women and children?

The Israeli government condemned Sharon’s actions as he had to resign.

So the Kahane commission into the role of sharon in the massacre of palestinians was a lie according to you?

No, that is a lie. Please go back and cogitate on the difference between personal and direct responsibility.

Further why did Sharon resign as defence minister if he did nothing wrong?

Another lie [about my comment]. Let’s see if you go for a hat-trick.

Now is there any condmenation someone involved in the massacre of Palestinian men, women and children?

Yup. Bingo. Are we talking about Elie Hobeika yet?

Once again, why the need to divert discussions on Jew-hatred to this?

All religions have dodgy bits in them and their scriptures and Islamism builds on those.

This is a disastrous misinterpretation. Islamism is not an Islamic concept – it is a politically correct construct of Western apologists in a vain and dishonest attempt to sanitise Islam proper. Islam is like no other faith in its fundamentals – totalitarian, intolerant, misogynist, homophobic, discriminatory, imperialist, supremacist and violent. It is 90% politics and 90% dodgy, and (again, unlike any other faith) all of it is set in religious concrete. Its moderates cannot resist its fundamentalists on theological or scriptural grounds because the texts support the fundamentalists.

You can be a decent human being and a fundamentalist in any faith except Islam, because only Islam places its discriminatory Law above the Golden Rule. And then there is the obscenity of jihad.

“What bothers me is your phrase ‘a culture hostile to our own’ is similar to what was said about the huge influx of Ashkenazi Jews into the UK in the late 19th early 20th Century

Look, why should the phrase ‘hostile to our culture’ bother you?”

Well, it bothers me precisely because that’s how the far right always demonises immigrants. It was wrong re Jews from the 17th to the early 20th century, it was wrong re East African expelled Asians in the early 1970s and it’s wrong about Muslims en masse. [I'd italicise if I could remember...anyone able to provide a wordpress html primer?]

Pace NO, this is not the age of greatest anti-semitism in the UK. The virulent anti-semitism of Islamism is (thankfully) confined to sects and should continue to be hounded – it has no place in any civilised society.
It cannot be compared to the situation prevailing in say the 19th century (consider the description of Jews in contemporary literature, or read archived court reports where Jews are openly abused and distrusted qua Jews). Or how about the 1930s (where the Halifaxs of this world sympathised with Germany and the Moseleys tried to march through Jewish populated districts). Or how about, more recently, the early 1980s, when large parts of the Conservative Party were uncomfortable with the prescence of Jews in the cabinet (Leon Brittain being described as a Lithuanian)?

Overall, the position of Jews has improved in this country through an extended period of assimilation – by which I mean universal adoption of English as a first language and a recognition that the UK is home, without losing the right (and in some cases desire) to be religious Jews.

Fwiw, I guess that over a period of time, the vast majority of Muslims will integrate into the UK. What is needed is full encouragement to learn English and respect the laws and customs of the UK, whilst vigorously exposing the Islamists for the bigots they are.

ji, I don’t believe I said ‘the age of greatest anti-semitism in the UK’ in the sense of ‘the greatest ever’ (I can’t find the relevant post). But it is the greatest for 3 generations, or however you count it. There is far more public expression of antisemitism from organised groups than I have personally seen for 40 years, that’s for sure. And a very large part of it comes from organised Muslim groups and their non-Muslim fellow-travellers.

Alec

Instead of claiming it a lie, how about you presenting what is the truth and let others judge for themselves.

Sharon was made to resign as defence minister – fact!

I have quoted the kahane commision – fact

Now what has this got to do with “jew hatred”?

I point out the hypocrisy and double standards being applied in judging people here!

You really need to concentrate before regurgitating stuff you know so little about, Jim. He bore executive responsibility, being in charge of the overall Israeli operations. He was deemed to have been insufficiently on the ball by not anticipating what the Christian militias may do. He was not personally responsible for what the Christian militias, under their own commander, did.

Claiming that Sabra and Shatila were down to him personally is all about Jew hatred: nothing is ever said about the people who actually did carry out Sabra and Shatila, who were Christians.

Nothing is ever said, either, about equally horrible massacres carried out prior to that by the PLO against peaceful Christian Lebanese villagers. I wonder why. Perhaps because no Jew was involved who could be blamed for that.

N O

Coduct of Sharon was raised to highlight the hypocrisy and double standards.

Sharon’s conduct had nothing to do with his jewishness and no one has claimed it so.

Apply one rule to judge all.

And nothing is ever said about why the “Christians” carried out this massacre – the unprovoked Jihad massacre at Damour, for which Arafat was directly culpable. Did any state treat this monster as an international pariah? No they gave him the Nobel Prize.

Apply one rule to judge all.

So give Sharon the Nobel Prize.

Let’s explain this very slowly, Jim. You implied I was stating Sharon had done nothing wrong. This is a lie.

You appear unable to even to mention te name of Elie Hobeika. Why is that? Why do you consider personal responsibility more noteworthy than direct responsibility?

Now, once again, what does this have to do with a thread about Jew-hatred?

Apply one rule to judge all.

So, tell us about Elie Hobeika. And comment on the thread subject.

I think part of the problem is is that those who can get out of the muslim ghettos by reason of intelligence or hard work do so but those who can’t get trapped behind and are then prey to extemist rabble rousers and their allies in disgusting groups like the SWP.

Yet we get Muslim Jihadi doctors, engineers and teachers….no, sadly…that poverty and no opportunity as a driver thesis for Jihadism and Jihadi sympathies doesnt even get pass a cursory acquaintance with reality.

The cause of Jihadi violence aint poverty, it’s bog standard Islam.

Two Arab doctors in Britain were arrested only yesterday on charges of plotting mass-murders in the country that offered them further training.

Coduct of Sharon was raised to highlight the hypocrisy and double standards

Well, you certainly exhibit those two nasty traits in spades.

Alcuin,
This whole disgusting treatment of Nazi mass-murderers as ‘heros’, and imo the UN’s final disintegration into simply a club dominated by outright gangster regimes, started – at least symbolically – when that scum was allowed the address the GA wearing a gun.

Ven’ Nick SA. Of course New Labour has criminalized ownership of .22 guns now
Only handguns following the post Dunblane press hysteria and subsequent handgun ban, which incidentally cut against the recommendations of the government appointed Cullen enquiry. Though I do understand getting a license for a mere .22 rimfire rifle – such as my little bolt action Brno – is really quite a mission.

Two Arab doctors in Britain were arrested only yesterday on charges of plotting mass-murders in the country that offered them further training.

Which two? The Arab and the Asian who began their trial yesterday after being arrested a year ago?

So…um, are you people going to organise a counterdemonstration against the event, or are you going to sit here and grumble like you usually do

Until you stop supprting Obama, then these posts are completely moot. None of these people are worse than his associates.

Tagnazlsx: I don’t think David T is going to organise anything about this “Global Peace and Unity Event” except his own comments.

He hasn’t so far said
1) where it is
2) when it is
3) what his sources of information are for the people he has alleged are speaking at it.

Unless 3) is an inside job, that is now overdue.

Alan Ji,

Try here:

http://www.theglobalunity.com/08/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=49

By the way, GPU speaker Yasir Qadhi is very keen on one of his old teachers, Ali al-Timimi, who has been convicted of terrorist offences in the United States. Qadhi calls Timimi “one of the more sophisticated voices of reason representing orthodox Islam in the Western world”.

This is what Timimi did as the dead were counted in New York and Washington:

Kwon recalled driving Al-Timimi home from the mosque Sept. 11, 2001 after the terrorist attacks. He said Al-Timimi and another scholar argued, with Al-Timimi characterizing the attacks as a punishment of America from God, while his fellow scholar decried the attacks.
That night, as they drove from the mosque, Kwon said Al-Timimi had a request.
“He told me to gather some brothers, to have a contingency plan in case there were mass hostilities toward Muslims in America,” Kwon said.
Five days later, Al-Timimi met with Kwon again, this time at the young engineer’s apartment where he gathered a small group of friends.
“He told me to unplug the message machine and turn off the phones.”
Then, Kwon said, Al-Timimi advised the group that the effort to spread Islam in the United States was over and that the only other options open to them were to repent, leave the U.S. and join the mujahadeen — the holy warriors preparing to defend Afghanistan against the coming U.S. invasion.
Four days later, Kwon was on the plane to Pakistan, embarking on a jihad that would land him in prison.
“I made the decision to go, but (Al-Timimi) was a big part of my decision to go,” Kwon said.

The Islamic University of Medina is one of the wellsprings of this Salafi poison.

This essay (pdf) on al-Timimi may be of interest to readers looking for background.

The link is slow, and when it works it tells me of little other than a religous revivalist kind of event, with glowing, but not very deeply researched bio-spots of speakers. However, it does accutaely described John Rees as a trotskyist.

Sounds like David T has rushed to comment without bothering to tell the readers what’s bothering him.

Israel Shamir a nazi?

I hardly think he can be classed a Zionist.

“I did not come into Parliament to be a Muslim MP. And I have never held myself out as a Muslim spokesperson or communitry leader. Just as ordinary citizens have multiple identities, so do MPs. I am Labour first and foremost.”

The opening four sentences of a Fabian pamphlet “Fairness not Favours How to reconnect with British Muslims” by Sadiq Khan.

Clearly nobodies mug, then.

@Alan Ji

What do you expect from David T, this post is nothing but an other hate rant featuring plenty of copy and pastes from previous rants.

A Live Conversion to the Cult at the event …. the English guy looks like a professional brainwasher

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NTlta20vsow&feature=related

Alan Ji, have you never heard of al-takeyya?

Who’s a mug now?

Fareed, are you honestly arguing that none of these people should be exposed for the haters they are, just because they are Muslims? Why should Muslims get a free pass on anything if no-one else is allowed one?

Don’t you hate? Don’t Muslims hate?

Global Peace and Unity events have been sponsored by the Metropolitan Police.Global Peace and Unity Event, organized by the pro-Muslim Brotherhood Islam Channel, is attended by The Rev Jesse Jackson, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and a number of senior Labor politicians.The Government is spending millions of pounds on attempts to find out why British Muslims are drawn into extremist politics.Global Peace and Unity Event that British Muslims are being inducted into political and religious extremism.so thanks to give this informative and gainful blog. its interesting and great.i appreciate to your efforts.

Global Peace and Unity Event, organized by the pro-Muslim Brotherhood Islam Channel, is attended by The Rev Jesse Jackson, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and a number of senior Labor politicians.Global Peace and Unity events have been sponsored by the Metropolitan Police.The Government is spending millions of pounds on attempts to find out why British Muslims are drawn into extremist politics.Global Peace and Unity Event that British Muslims are being inducted into political and religious extremism.so thanks to give this informative and gainful blog. its interesting and great.

i can see that this website is part of the new world order illuminati your websites a joke and a hatespreading propoganda