Harry’s Place

As far as I can tell, there will also be some Tories for good measure.

Shockingly, Dominic Grieve.

An all-star loon line-up. Very impressive.

David T,

you’ve won me over, Tobin should be sent back to Germany post haste :)

In this IslamChannel clip, Yasir Qadhi makes a very sad attempt to trash the disclosures of “Undercover Mosque.”

Whilst moaning about the alleged unfairness of “Wahabbi” and “Salafist” labels.

The man is a product of the Islamic University of Medina, for Abdullah’s sake.

Oh, he’s a Holocaust denier too.

Listen, read and learn to discern, foolish Mr Timms and Co.

Sounds like there are a whole bunch of people who should be deported to Germany!

I think they should all be put on the Eurostar and shipped to Germany for immediate punishment. This is a democracy not a showcase for loonies and cranks and fascists. This government needs to show more spine and announce once and for all that some views are not permitted here and make sure that the mullahs in Iran know what’s coming to them if they continue with their “revision” of history!

Personally I would send all the 9/11 truthers to Guantanamo so that they can meet face to face with the instigators. Take off their chains and then leave them to it. I wonder how many of those people would wake up and smell the coffee and realize what side their bread is buttered on instead of sticking up for terrorists and racists and fascists.

There is a big difference between countries like U.K. the USA on one side and Germany, Austria on the other side.
In Germany and Austria the denial of National Socialist crimes is a crime and is punished.
I have explained why I believe, that it is just in Austria to prosecute the deniers, see:
http://www.engageonline.org.uk/journal/index.php?journal_id=10&article_id=40

Arresting people accused abroad and making decisions about whether to extradite them are matters for Judges sitting in Courts, not for Ministers in the Government. I’ve heard of separation of powers, even if others have not.

David, this is “talking without pre-conditions”

“Global Peace and Unity”?????

Why is this a meeting of MOSTLY Islamists and a few non-Muslims?

We KNOW what all this is going to be about. “You must change Foreign Policy to make us Muslims happy or we can’t control the rage of our young radical fundamentalists (our foot soldiers) who may just be in the mood for terrorist atrocities”

Well, if they say they can exercise and influence on them then I suggest they don’t need to be issuing threats.

In what way do Islamic Radical Terrorist supporters and Holocaust Deniers represent a side in the debate for Global Peace and Unity?

How about “If you don’t stop Islamist Terrorist attacks on a Global basis then there is no table to sit at!”

Why is it that since 9/11 one of the strongest political themes in the UK has been the demands of Islamists. Why do 3% of the population demand how WE change and not the other way around?

At least the voice of Jews will be heard with the invitation of Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss. Only joking! He is the head of the Nutty Kutty self-hating, Israel denying Jewish Sect of non-Jews dressed Chassidic Jews. Now, why do you think this …. has been invited as the token (non) Jew-Hating Jew?

David I commend you bringing this to our attention, Its truly terrible. It seems that if you threaten Islamist Terror then you can almost force your potential victims to discuss “Peace and Unity”. I wonder, is it a conference to accept our surrender and apologies.

Alan Ji:
“Arresting people accused abroad and making decisions about whether to extradite them are matters for Judges sitting in Courts, not for Ministers in the Government. I’ve heard of separation of powers, even if others have not.”

You’re absolutely right. The duty of the Ministers in the Government is to take part in the islamist circus and surrender to terrorists’ demands.

You people should check your sources. It should be “Global Pieces not Unity”. That would explain the “Mostly Islamists” stuff, Maven
;-)

“How can a Government lock up Holocaust Deniers and inciters of terrorism, while standing on a platform with men like these?”

Because they are deluded into thinking that sympathy can or will not be taken as assent. However, victimising the weak (which also includes the weak minded) is cost free yet evenso may attract the admiration of some. The modern idea of dialogue between opposing factions has some justification; but it needs to handled with care and can easily be taken as an endosement of one sides views or confer a bogus status. This fact is so well known – Gerald Kuaffman MP was caught out in an like episode with some of his own Manchester Moslem constituents many years ago – that I am surprised the government minders have not stepped in to scrutinise what is going on.

It should also be noted more often when these events arise that there now exists a strong electoral reason for politicians in England (and judging by Mr Alex Salmond’s recent generousity towards a Moselm organisation on behalf of the Scottish people, not just England) to go to these events and look suitably chastened or contrite. They may constitute a small minority but Moslem votes in the inner city marginals are crucial votes.

I think that short term electoral considerations do play some part.

However, there are some ministers like Timms who I think have basically taken the view that

- being a supporter of terrorism or a racist isn’t that bad, unless you’re white;

- that Muslims are embattled and oppressed and should be shown solidarity;

- that mega-conferences, attended by thousands of Muslims, and run by dodgy Islamist groups, showcasing racists, pro-terrorists and fanatics, is the only show in town;

Therefore, they need to turn up and engage with their constituents, in the place that they have chosen to be.

The effect of all this on me, is to think that those Government ministers who are proceeding on this basis, are not to be trusted with the task of combatting extremism.

” They may constitute a small minority but Moslem votes in the inner city marginals are crucial votes.”

I don’t think the Muslim vote has any bearing because it tends to split between Labour, Respect and Libs. It has an almost zero sum effect.

I believe a party that starts saying No! will get MORE votes because the No! voters at the moment tend to go for BNP as a protest.

Attempts to blackmail the Govt. by the suggestion that we might get more terrorism if we don’t change foreign policy is anti-Democratic. We won’t defeat Islamists by appeasing them. We have to confront them. We have to say that their political aims have places better suited to their desires and more readily compliant with the environments they seek to create.

How about a Peace and Unity conference for non-Muslims meeting with the Govt? Why doesn’t a Peace and Unity conference include people from Kosovo, Darfur, Georgia & Russia. Is there some sort of peace that can be achieved without their input?

Its a conference that seems to predicate that we are at War with Islam. ie WE are somehow guilty. I see it as the other way around. Al Qaeda’s aims are a Global Caliphate. We know of the statement that Israel is “Muslim Lands” and that Al Andalus must be returned to the Caliphate. This isn’t quite an argument over The Falklands.

There are some political opportunists such as Jack Straw who is in a constituency with a large Muslim population, Blackburn. I think his double-standards in criticisng Israel and bowing in front of Arafat’s grave is naked opportunism.

I always remember he condemned the assassination of the terrorist leader Yassin but was part of the Coalition who tried to assassinate Saddam & Sons prior to the Shock & Awe in order to shorten the conflict. Apparently that wasn’t sub-judicial killing.

Notice how Woolas, who had strong statements about immigration, who has been criticised by Islamist groups, has now been shoved into the background, apperently being pulled from QT.

I just sometimes wonder who’s hand is rocking the Govt’s cradle.

Oh, my Goodness!!!! I’ve jest realised I’m going to this beano!!! Delphina, my 12-year old daughter, has purchased tickets for an event at the ExCel Centre for tomorrow! I said she could only go on condition that I went with her. She said it was an expo about Japanese anime art. Do you think they have two events in teh same spot? I mean is there a lesser hall? If not, looks like ….If you don’t hear from me again, you’ll know what’s happened…

What times of doublethink we live in when white holocaust deniers are prosecuted but brown ones are feted; when white supporters of white communities are racists, but black supporters of black communities are messiahs, and black people who question their stance are harrassed; when “progressives” <a href=”http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/german-neo-nazis-view-islamists-as-allies/”joins forces with and shill for neo-Nazis and Islamists.

I put this down to evolutionary drift. In the absence of natural selection by a harsh environment, all sorts of genetic divergence occurs, much of which is poorly equipped for the return of hard times. So it is in politics. The expanding client state of those who do not earn their living for the country, but live off the taxes of those who do (politicians, civil servants, teachers in the public sector, the BBC, the Quangos, the Neets and the welfare dependents) are unconstrained by reality, and drift off in all potitical directions. Reality (which guided our polity through most of History) becomes branded as “the Right”, and ideas which are increasingly off the wall are branded “progressive”. Such was also common in the 1930s, and is largely, and unfortunately now forgotten.

The 21st century will see an “adjustment”, just as the financial markets have recently done. This planet cannot support even its current population indefinitely, so there will be a cull, either due to agricultural failure, disease, loss of habitat (sounds benign when applied to amphibians, less so when it is flooded coastal cities) or war. Probably all of these will operate. The ideas expressed currently in academe, “liberal” elite society, the BBC and “progressive” thought are in for a massive train wreck.

“I don’t think the Muslim vote has any bearing because it tends to split between Labour, Respect and Libs. It has an almost zero sum effect.” – Maven.

You make my point for me better than I do myself.

Apologies for mis-typing Mr Kauffman’s name.

The government has locked up Toben because of an arrest warrant issued by a German court. That’s how.

The government has locked up Toben because of an arrest warrant issued by a German court. That’s how

Don’t confuse a Harry’s Place writer with facts. He’ll call you a fascist and then his head will explode. (If only)

Just checked the website for the animation and video games fest, practically indistinguisable from the dreams of world domination peddled at the Global Unity Event. Just hope no-one takes exception to Little Big Planet and bombs our event. Hope I don’t wander into teh wrong one by mistake.

“How can a Government lock up Holocaust Deniers and inciters of terrorism, while standing on a platform with men like these?” – David T.

“The government has locked up Toben because of an arrest warrant issued by a German court. That’s how.” – pangloss.

“Don’t confuse a Harry’s Place writer with facts. He’ll call you a fascist and then his head will explode. (If only)”

Once more, slowly this time:

“…while standing on a platform with men like these?”

Good post David T.

Some of us on the left have been criticising this compliance with Islamicist fascists, and assorted gobshite, for a very long time.

Maybe we’ll get heard.

Ha, ha (just off to a multicultural cuisine event, with no doubt the Halal meat section. Wonder how they’ll treat my refusal to eat it on the grounds that it is ‘impure for an atheist to eat flesh slaughtered under the supervision of a religious figure’).

Ps: ‘Sue R’ true to your words, you haven’t phoned me. Alison, though (visited her in Brum) sends her love.

Andrew: I am only human and I get rather cross when I am publically described as ‘turning your stomach’.

Andrew: I would also be rather annoyed to be thus described privately as well.

“Ha, ha (just off to a multicultural cuisine event, with no doubt the Halal meat section. Wonder how they’ll treat my refusal to eat it on the grounds that it is ‘impure for an atheist to eat flesh slaughtered under the supervision of a religious figure’).”

Oh for fuck’s sake.

Sue, you seem to be the sort of woman who is more used to turning heads!

See Andrew? Note and take lessons!

Halal meat should no more be forced on anyone, including schoolchildren, than kosher meat or vegetarian dishes.

Why should Brits be denied the traditional opportunity for a bit of pork crackling or crispy bacon with their scrambled eggs?

I fully support and respect any Muslim who wishes to eat only Halal but they should recognise that it might constrain people who don’t care.

“Wonder how they’ll treat my refusal to eat it on the grounds that it is ‘impure for an atheist to eat flesh slaughtered under the supervision of a religious figure’”

I very happily eat ritually slaughtered meat, although I don’t seek it out.

That is because humans, and their preferences - even if superstitious in nature - take priority over pretty much anything else.

“Why should Brits be denied the traditional opportunity for a bit of pork crackling or crispy bacon with their scrambled eggs?”

David, how many “oh for fuck’s sake”s am I allowed in one day?

Feel free to say it repeatedly on this thread!!

Oh I will

Well Islamism certainly plays a part in my electoral considerations! I would never vote for a man as weak and foolish as Mr Timms appears to be.

Al-Qaradawi’s IslamOnline is very keen on the GPU event. One might hope that that alone would ring alarm bells in a government that has excluded al-Qaradawi from the UK. In vain, apparently.

Here’s Mohammed Ali, chairman of the GPU event:

Palestine was for Palestinians for thousands of years and the zionist movement drove palestinians out from their homes in palestine and drove the jews out of their from all over the world [sic]

Golly, those Jews, chasing Jews out of their homes, all over the world. Terrible people, eh?

“Why should Brits be denied the traditional opportunity for a bit of pork crackling or crispy bacon with their scrambled eggs?”

David, how many “oh for fuck’s sake”s am I allowed in one day?

So what’s wrong with that statement. If a staff or school canteen were forced to only serve Halal meat then non-Muslims wouldn’t be able to eat a Traditional English Breakfast or pig-based meals. Now, why should non-Muslims not be allowed to follow British Traditions. I am in favour of a parallel meal service but not a single track exclusive one.

For many years there was a Jewish Meal service that served Kosher food to schools. Franks & beans from the “K” side followed by jam rolly-polly on the non-K side was a schoolboy’s dream. We even had boys who pretended to be Jewish and there were swaps.

I would fully support an Islamic Meals service funded by government and the Community for schools. I happen to believe a good meal at school is essential but let’s respect everyone.

Palestine was for Palestinians for thousands of years and the zionist movement drove palestinians out from their homes in palestine and drove the jews out of their from all over the world

He’s a fucking liar! If he wants to say that Palestinians have existed for thousands of years then he has to acknowledge that The Lebanon, Jordan and Syria were “Palestine”. In 1922 these coutries were formed out of Mandated Palestine and the sparsely populated place was designated for BOTH Jews and Arabs with the Arabs having been given states in The Lebanon, Jordan and Syria.

Further, until 1948 the Jews were called “Palestinians” by the British.

He’s a liar who has distorted history.

For David T:

David, it’s off-topic, but are you aware that the OIC states are eyeing Germany and Austria’s Holocaust Denial laws as a blueprint for their goal of creating new laws to criminalise criticism of Islam?

At the recent UN expert seminar on freedom of expression and advocacy of religious hatred, both Egypt and Pakistan cited the existence of laws against Holocaust Denial, but not against defamation of Islam, as evidence that there was not a “level playing field” in Europe when it came to balancing freedom of expression against incitement to hatred on the grounds of religion.

According to the International Humanist and Ethical Union report on the conference, the Pakistan delegate, echoing the OIC delegate’s call for legal sanctions, pointed out that there were “already laws in Europe [against Holocaust Denial] that can be used as a model for futures laws against defamation of religion.”

In its submission to the seminar, the IHEU claimed that the OIC states have identified the Holocaust Denial laws as a weak point in the West’s defences on free speech. They do not intend to argue against those laws but instead to use them as an example of existing legal restrictions on the freedom of expression, which can and should be extended to cover defamation of Islam.

Hasn’t the history of the West been about the population refusing to accept ridiculous conditions on their liberties? The Islamic lobby might succeed in getting such laws passed, such is the craven nature of our political leaders and the need for crude oil, but I can’t see (or I’d like to believe) that the general population will not pay any mind to it. And, what the fuck is the use of a law that is unenforceable? The Islamicists should be aware that the spectre haunting Europe has not completely gone away and could be revived under the right sort of circumstances. Europeans are not the isolated peasants scratching a living from desert sand or the wheedling merchants that they are used to dealing with.

This state of affairs is the unfortunate result of decades of conditioning with regards to what facism and nazism are.

The definition is so narrow…restricted exclusively to caucasians and Christians… that when new and innovative forms of nazism arise, like narrow dictrinare islamism, that are championed by inidividuals with less than white skin, we just give ‘em pass.

So we have the spectacle of mainstream politicians attending conferences organised by people pushing a muderous and authoritarian doctrine, and being completely unaware they’re rubbing shoulders with types far worse than even the BNP.

Obviously David I do not refuse the odd (and sometimes very odd) salt-beef sarni.

My point relates to one of the various Muslim outreach thingmejigs that have reared their head around here.

Mind you the religious group that I *really hate* at the moment are based on the Alpha Course. For reasons that are beyond me have targetted this part of Ipswich (not exactly South Ken).

“So what’s wrong with that statement. If a staff or school canteen were forced to only serve Halal meat then non-Muslims wouldn’t be able to eat a Traditional English Breakfast or pig-based meals. Now, why should non-Muslims not be allowed to follow British Traditions. I am in favour of a parallel meal service but not a single track exclusive one.
For many years there was a Jewish Meal service that served Kosher food to schools. Franks & beans from the “K” side followed by jam rolly-polly on the non-K side was a schoolboy’s dream. We even had boys who pretended to be Jewish and there were swaps.
I would fully support an Islamic Meals service funded by government and the Community for schools. I happen to believe a good meal at school is essential but let’s respect everyone.”

Oh for fuck’s sake

I have always thought that this country has things arse about face.

I am with the poster above - send ‘em all to Germany via Eurostar but not in it, rather running behind the train.

Where was the bit about halal meat being “forced” on anyone, and non-halal meat being banned? I’ve read the post and the comments and it appears to have sprung up from Andrew Coates mentioning “a multicultural cuisine event, with no doubt the Halal meat section”. What’s wrong with a section? Why would this imply there’s nothing other than halal meat

SueR: ExCeL is VAST.

One of the Mayor of London and GLA counts on 2 May 2008 only used one hall.

Even the huge Newham Council event to interest locals in the Olympics only filled three of the halls. 10s of 1,000s attended that. And I met Tessa Sanderson and Dalton Grant.

So you’ll be able to comment on the size of the event that kicked off this thread and an earlier one.

Habibi, Maven,

Mohammed Ali is more of a liar than you think. He is not even honest enough to give his full name (Mohammed Ali Harrath), because he is wanted by Interpol. His original arrest warrant was issued by Tunisia on terrorism and other charges. This fact was first served up by his erstwhile employee on islamchannel, yvonne ridley, who sued him for allsorts. Here is the interpol link:

http://www.interpol.int/Public/Data/Wanted/Notices/Data/1992/85/1992_27585.asp

As chairman of the GPU event - http://www.theglobalunity.com/08/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=44&Itemid=60 - Mo Harrath will play host to a string of people who call themselves ‘MPs’. Which ‘honourable member’ will he also share a platform with? Stephen Timms or Dominic Grieve or Shahid Malik or Sadiq Khan? It is no joke to see three reps from the governing party, ostensibly concerned with our national security, cosying up with a terrorist.

We ought not to forget the two ‘Lords’ either - Lord Nazir Ahmed and Lord Sheikh… The entire bunch of them, MPs and Lords, are bringing our governing institutions into disrepute. Where is the leadership from Messrs Brown and Cameron? The main parties will have only themselves to blame when they encounter voter apathy at election time.

There are some political opportunists such as Jack Straw

That’s a very kind way to describe this ghastly little shit.

I put this down to evolutionary drift. In the absence of natural selection by a harsh environment, all sorts of genetic divergence occurs, much of which is poorly equipped for the return of hard times.

Very well put.
The British welfare state, having reached its current crazy condition (and I use ‘condition’ deliberately, for it is very sick indeed - e.g. in being racist against whites), has created cushy conditions for the survival of mutated ‘genes’ in society, sick genes that would and should have been weeded out in a normal environment. Instead, many of them cause social cancer.

Can you clarify what sort of mutated, sick genes these are that should have been weeded out but which are causing social cancer in out racist anti-white state? This is all a little euphemistic for me.

E.g. the diseased PC gene that won’t allow racist terrorists and those calling publicly for the murder of Jews and Salman Rushdie to be flung out of the country (or into jail for 20 years); that results in hurling money at racist organisations that do likewise, and inviting them to advise the government … I am sure you know what I mean. Cf. Alcuin.

Thank you, that sounds much less, er, loaded, than how it initially could have been interpreted.

Asghar “I did not know that David Irving was an anti-Semite when I wrote him a cheque” Bukhari, founder of MPACUK, will also be speaking in one of the GPU workshops.

He is a man who lives for religious division and anger. Only fools will think the likes of his mind are for changing.

Well, speaking of same, I guess I won’t be voting for the Liberal Democrats anytime soon.

Perhaps Mr Clegg could have a “dialogue” with Mohammed Ijaz ul-Haq about the most merciful way to put down Sir Salman Rushdie?

So, now we find the hidden hand of “Policy Exchange”.

Policy Exchange has a website, publications and events and its not obvious that it also goes in for confidential stuff. However, on 31 October 2006 Policy Exchange was alleged to be the host for an event which allowed prominent people on the doctrinaire fringe of Christianity to further their myth-building about a mosque next to West Ham station.

This event never appeared on the Policy Exchange website.

habibi,

Clegg is a complete prat - or simply a knave:

I need hardly point out how illogical it is to attempt to criticise one set of extreme views by citing another

So to this idiot, it’s not the evidence that is relevant but the moral rectitude of those presenting it. And to think that he is one of our legislators!

Yasir Qadhi responds to this allegation here:

http://muslimmatters.org/2008/11/10/gpu-08-with-yasir-qadhi-when-islamophobia-meets-perceived-anti-semitism/