Harry's Place

Barack Obama believed that his great uncle, a US soldier, liberated Auschwitz. This betrays a profound ignorance of the political and military history of WW2, not to mention confusion about the geography of Europe.

Barack Obama also believed that tornadoes kill tens of thousands of people in the US in any one year.

Nobody holds these howlers against him.

But for some reason, Sarah Palin continues to be ridiculed for perceived holes in her knowledge. Why the double-standard?

On a map of Africa, A VP candidate should at least be able to find…Africa. I agree, very disturbing.

Stunning as it is, I can’t help but think some McCain advisers are trying to save their careers as respected campaign strategists. Blame it all on Palin and they might still get jobs in the future.

I can still believe it’s true though.

Also funny that Fox has been reporting this today as though it’s all totally new information when in fact some of this – though not the Africa thing – was reported widely a few weeks ago yet they refused to cover it in case it hurt McCain.

At least Shep allowed Carl to get it all out. O’reilly repeatedly interrupted him to play it down.

Ben:

So it was Buchenwald. I don’t think that is a grave mistake. The geographies of KZs is not as fundamental as (allegedly) not knowing that Africa is a continent. I have met Jews who didn’t know in which KZ their grandparents and family died.

Barack Obama mistakenly said that 10,000 people had died in a Kansas tornado during a speech. He said nothing about thinking tens of thousands of people die in the US in any one year, as you claim.

What you fail to mention as well is that he indicated in that same speech that he was mistaken and that he put it down to fatigue.

Do you honestly believe Palin has the right geo-political knowledge? Comparable to Obama (or Biden for that matter?)

Barack Obama believed that his great uncle, a US soldier, liberated Auschwitz. This betrays a profound ignorance of the political and military history of WW2, not to mention confusion about the geography of Europe.

A profound ignorance? This is ridiculous. Auschwitz isn’t marked on globes or on world maps but anyone who looks at one will know there is no country called Africa. Such knowledge of which concentration camp was where in Europe is not common knowledge.

Palin cannot see Africa from her window. But she can find every Neiman-Marcus fro San Fran to New York.

The Hail Mary pass resulted in the Republicans being presented as the Stupid Party, pretty fatal in an economic slowdown and financial meltdown. In better times it may have been less damaging, but not now. Its pretty shocking that a ticket with someone like Palin on it could get 46% of the vote.

It looks like Obama will be end 7% ahead, roughly in line with polling averages.

I’d presumed she had the intellect and education of an average 12-13 year old.
It seems I overestimated by 4 or 5 years.Presumably she thought Nelson Mandela was the President of Africa…If sh has heard of Nelson Mandela that is.

Further on in the tape is the point that I’ve made before, ie that McCains slide in the polls actually began 4 days before the financial crisis hit, on the day that the first Palin interview aired.

Gene wories about Palin and geography even as latest news reports say Congressional Democrats are proposing to seize every retirement program in the nation in the private sector and siphon off the money into a “government-run”(i.e., slush fund) program.
Way to focus on the really serious stuff, Gene.

Theres more

Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent “tens of thousands” more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as “Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast,” and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

“Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast”

http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581/page/1

I’m sorry, all you intellectual nerds, but being smart just ain’t that important. Bush isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer and he got elected President twice! I guess y’all should have spent more time at university getting high than doing your essays…

Looks like tim’s on a mission from God. That’s the only explanation for his zealotry.

Its comedy gold mining, Boogski.
Enjoy it.

Fox is reporting that Palin has been asking reporters to explain to her how the New Hampshire primary and the Iowa caucus work.

Go Sarah 2012!

Ben @ 6 November 2008, 4:43 am

I reckon its deference. To lawyers.

“What you fail to mention as well is that he indicated in that same speech that he was mistaken and that he put it down to fatigue.”

And when, announcing the death of his grandmother (surely a prepared speech), he said: “…she was born in Kansas, in a small town in 1922. Which means that she lived through the Great Depression, she lived through two world wars..”

Guess we put that down to grief, do we…? On the part of his speechwriter.

How many moons does Jupiter have? Who named the electron?
Who was Fred Hoyle’s Ceylonese collaborator? Did the Pope share a prison cell with Gunther Grass? These are among the many questions I will be preparing as a public service in order that we can vet future Presidential candidates. Obama, the geography maven, will gain an exemption if he can name all 57 states.

It may be true, it may not (probably is). But what’s important here is the leak. For that there has to be a reason.

As Mike says it could be McCain advisers trying to save their careers. Or it could signal the start of the fight to select McCain’s successor.

How many moons does Jupiter have?

Over 60?

They’re just jumping on the bandwagon to make Palin a scapegoat in the blame game.

She’ll be back. The scary thing is they might elect her second time round.

Guess we put that down to grief, do we…? On the part of his speechwriter.

Or even the speaker.

Surely they would never have selected someone with such a lack of the most basic understanding of the world.

Er, this guy?
The lesson is, a fuckwit can get elected in the US as long as they’ve got the right genitalia.

Anyway the natural progression is: extremely able black man -> stupid white woman. Palin in 2012!

“Or even the speaker.”

You mean the speechwriter correctly wrote ‘one World War’, and Obama – in his grief – read it out as ‘two’..?

It’s a theory, I suppose…

Julia: has anyone commented on the WW1 thing in the msm? I pointed it out here as soon as the reports came out, but haven’t seen any mention elsewhere. Anyway that is not in the same league as Palin, Africa and the rest of her bedroom window world view.
This article gives an insight into the history of Palinism, going back to an ugly
force with which Pat Buchanan deliberately poisoned US politics for cynical strategic reasons, not not because of a belief in itsmoral values. One can only hope with the article that this form of Conservatism is in its death throes and that Palin will succeed in a Fatal Attraction like ressurection in 2012:

“Buchanan gave me a copy of a seven-page confidential memorandum—“A little raw for today,” he warned—that he had written for Nixon in 1971, under the heading “Dividing the Democrats.” Drawn up with an acute understanding of the fragilities and fault lines in “the Old Roosevelt Coalition,” it recommended that the White House “exacerbate the ideological division” between the Old and New Left by praising Democrats who supported any of Nixon’s policies; highlight “the elitism and quasi-anti-Americanism of the National Democratic Party”; nominate for the Supreme Court a Southern strict constructionist who would divide Democrats regionally; use abortion and parochial-school aid to deepen the split between Catholics and social liberals; elicit white working-class support with tax relief and denunciations of welfare. Finally, the memo recommended exploiting racial tensions among Democrats. “Bumper stickers calling for black Presidential and especially Vice-Presidential candidates should be spread out in the ghettoes of the country,” Buchanan wrote. “We should do what is within our power to have a black nominated for Number Two, at least at the Democratic National Convention.” Such gambits, he added, could “cut the Democratic Party and country in half; my view is that we would have far the larger half.”

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/05/26/080526fa_fact_packer?currentPage=2

that Palin will NOT succeed!

Mitt’s Running!

Apart from the matter of your not knowing whence came the speech, yes. It’s a fairly obvious explanation. This is pretty much why I was apprehensive when Gene opened a thread to her: a man’s grandmother dies, and people start crowing over a few fluffed words.

I’m not long in the tooth, but I remember the “lived through two world wars” line well (including all four grandparents). You know, he’d just lost his grandmother, maybe he was upset. Maybe he was thinking of his grandfather, who did.

So, on the one hand there is this, or a confusion about precisely what his grandfather did in WWII and may not have discussed in its minutiae. On the other hand, there is a consistently dim woman who didn’t even know what the Veep’s role was.

Straws, grasping.

On the one hand we have this

Mesquito,
So’s Jindal

Oh, my money’s on Steve Bell presenting him as a donkey.

Mesquito – you mean this? http://mitt12.com/blog/2008/02/

11 out of 10 for the strapline.

j:

Hell, I was joking.

What the Hell is up with Rahm Emmanuel? Does Obama have to publicly kneel before him and beg him to be COS? This is bizarre.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/11/rahm-mulls-obam.html

or a confusion about precisely what his grandfather did in WWII

Or, even, great uncle. I guess this nullifies my point.

Mesquito, he sounds like someone angling for a pay hike.

“but being smart just ain’t that important. “

maybe not, but a politician in high office should, at least, have basic skills in geography, know something about trade agreements OR be capable of being briefed on them

Palin couldn’t even managed that

Sarah P from Wasilla, AK writes “aw as a hockey mom, I can’t see Africa from an island in Alaska”

From the newsweek link that tim provided: “Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin.” Yes, they indicate that they’re bloody pissed off with the stupid cow for behaving like a dick and costing them the election.

All you rallying to her defense now, clinging to whether or not Obama’s also made a few blunders and whether they compare to mistaking Africa for a country or not, you might want to concentrate on hearing that she refused to prepare for the Couric interview. Anyone can make mistakes, sure, but not preparing for such an interview smacks of extreme arrogance. The same arrogance that would make you spend other people’s money on your clothes. It smacks of an attitude “I deserve this and I’m going to get out of this what I can” that seems incongruous with [the idea(l)] of public office. You betcha!

Can’t help it but feel a bit sorry for her. It was very irresponsible, not least to her, to put her in this position that she obviously wasn’t ready for. It stain McCain seriously as a leader that he allowed this.

Aproximatly the same at Bill O’Reilly

“she didn’t understand. McCain aides told me today that Africa was a continent and not a country and actually asked them they argue they say. If South America South Africa wasn’t just part of the country as opposed to a country in the continent.”

” Yeah there are stories that say she would look at her press clippings in the morning and throw what has been described to me as tantrums. The way I understand that there were times when should be so nasty and angry. At staff that they would. Virtually be reduced to tears there was the throwing — paperwork and things of this nature and a whole series of descriptions anecdotes all from the McCain campaign and other insiders side of it. That suggest a certain level of performance that they were caught off guard by. …

they have suggested that she’s a bit of a shopaholic.“

BS degree in communications-journalism stands for in USA when they don’t even know that South-Africa is a country? And even have the confidence to argue the point that it’s a part of the country Africa.

And what does it say about the row of high ranked conservative commentators, Bill Cristol, Bolton etc, who met Palin when they sailed on cruises that docked in Juneau and thought Palin should be the best thing that could happen the Republican party.

Anyhow one of the true heroic campaign workers in the McCain campaign.

ami: “Julia: has anyone commented on the WW1 thing in the msm? I pointed it out here as soon as the reports came out, but haven’t seen any mention elsewhere. Anyway that is not in the same league as Palin, Africa and the rest of her bedroom window world view.”

I’ve not seen it in the media, no (at least, not any I’ve read). Only on blogs.

And it’s not quite in the same league – Obama actually said this, indisputably. The comments regarding Palin and Africa are second-hand. Treat with caution.

Alec: “Straws, grasping.”

Looks like it to me. But don’t be too hard on yourself there… ;)

I worked on the campaign and I can tell you it is absolutely NOT true. It was a joke that went round the part of the campaign that didn’t like her. The woman who started it is Nicole Wallace. She just wants to save her own ass and the rest of them aren’t saying anything because they don’t mind having Palin become the reason why Macain lost, when in fact it was the shoddy, disorganized, gutless and divided campaign ( divided btw Maccain moderates and old-school liberals.) It was one huge goddamn mess and the media bias ( which we handled badly too) didn’t help either, but good luck to President Obama. Lets just hope he casts off all those marxists/terrorists/racists who helped him get elected now that he doesn’t need them anymore.

Yikes! That should have read “old-school conservatives”. I really am falling to bits in the new Obamerica aren’t I!

By the way does anyone see the whole Palin clothing “scandal” as a mite SEXIST at all? Maybe? Just a little? The anchors who are crowing over it spend that much in a month on their appearance.
So whats the, um, problem? Or is it that they just need to find something to hit her with and that’s the best they could do in terms of facts (vs unsubstantiated rumour)?

Thanks for your comment, Dixiemink, but– how shall I say this gently?– I’m rather surprised you can’t spell the name of the candidate you worked for.

Condy for Pres 2012..

leaving the Dems to find a one-legged lesbian with a Cuban-Chinese disabled son …with cancer… to up the PC stakes.

Obama ran the perfect Machievelian campaign, don’t fret it is what he was trained to do and how he believes politics works. And in Chicago it probably does.

He IS the black Tony Blair though. Watch the fun when that finally sinks in with the so-called left and those ‘intellectuals’ who the populus actually despise. Watch amazed as we have it explained, by those that think they are our betters, that he is not a ‘proper black man’ and that making such racist comments against him is not really racism but ‘criticism’, and so on and so forth.

Piss yourself when Chris Rock starts up on those dumb-ass low expectation motherfuckers that want some sort of Black Stalin. Obama will have his foot full-force down on the left’s brake pedal at all times. Since he is a realpolitik animal and not the fluffy brained idealist he has been pretending to be and he knows which side his bread is buttered.

Gene is definately obsessed with Palin.

For heavan’ sakes the elections are over, so just ‘leave Brittany alone’!

And Gene shouldn’t burn all his bridges; afterall, Palin will most certainly be back in 2012, and she’ll no doubt be better than ever.

Since he is a realpolitik animal and not the fluffy brained idealist he has been pretending to be and he knows which side his bread is buttered.

That’s not realpolitik, but rather crass careerism.

There is a big difference between a self-centered careerist and the skills of realpolitik policy-makers who actually draw-up and achieve realistic objectives in the political arena.

Showing up in the senate occasionally and chirping “present” is not realpolitik.

Stop talking bollocks, Julia.

“Stop talking bollocks, Julia.”

Specifics..?

Or is that code for ‘la la la la I can’t hear you la la la…’?

No, Julia, you will note that I have not been dwelling on the Africa matter. There’s more than enough which has been documented to criticize Palin. All you have is that a man whose grandmother had just died, during the most stressful point of his professional career, and he fluffed a line.

You respond with gloating, and insouciance at the Africa matter not being documented. Even if it is not true, elements in GOP are putting out these stories about the Veep. Others would think this indicates the level of rancour or outright hatred which shows it to be a party which doesn’t deserve to govern, but you don’t mind. Because Obama made a slip-of-the-tongue right after his grandmother had died. Maybe he skim-read any speech. You know, his grandmother had just died. Did Palin have that excuse when she made a balls-up of her first interview?

Don’t spit on my cupcake and call it icing. I feel the need now to point out that a “theory” is the best we can get. Maybe you meant a hypothesis.

“…you will note that I have not been dwelling on the Africa matter.”

No, you’ve merely been offering excuses for a documented slip made by a man you obviously admire politically, while wallowing in pure unsubstantiated gossip about a woman with whom you disagree politically. Don’t be surprised if someone calls you on it…

“Even if it is not true, elements in GOP are putting out these stories about the Veep. Others would think this indicates the level of rancour or outright hatred which shows it to be a party which doesn’t deserve to govern…”

It’s a party made up of human beings. Fallible human beings, with all the bitterness and infighting you can expect from human beings. Just double it because they are also politicians. Not really any different from the infighting which characterises any political party – like Labour and the Dems too.

If you are going to make that a disqualification from politics, who do you think should govern? Machines?

“Because Obama made a slip-of-the-tongue right after his grandmother had died. “

Not his only one. Not that Sarah Palin hasn’t made similar. But I suspect even if her grandmother had just died, we wouldn’t be seeing any excuses for her.

Ben’s first comment is right. There’s a double-standard here.

It really is very simple, Julia. You’re well on your way to becoming unhinged by the Obama victory and are going to spend the coming years sounding like Steve Bell’s joke-book. It’s not because of an absolutely hopeless Veep candidate chosen in a fit of pique and who turned a roughly equally rooting being 7% of the popular vote and 200 Electoral Votes behind.

Oh, no. It’s because the 52% of Americans who voted for Obama are just stupid and gullible.

No, you’ve merely been offering excuses for a documented slip made

Whilst you have been homing in like a diamond auger on one undocumented Palinism which is entirely in keeping with the wheen of documented Palinisms; and, as I said, disregarding the matter of *intense* hatred within GOP.

by a man you obviously admire politically,

I’ve spoken admiringly of parts of McCain’s conduct. I like Mesquito. Boogski voted McCain. What are you talking about?

Fallible human beings, with all the bitterness and infighting you can expect from human beings.

This really is hilarious! You maintain the Africa matter is unproven, but then you excuse GOPers from spreading the very same accusations! Rest assured, if any political party or individual I supported was shown to be wrong or malfeasant, I would not support them.

Not that Sarah Palin hasn’t made similar.

Bad grace. She has made far more deep gaffs. Unable to deny this, you’re attempting to make her look less worse by comparison. It ain’t going to work.

But I suspect even if her grandmother had just died, we wouldn’t be seeing any excuses for her.

Bleep, bleep! Stawman alert! You wouldn’t hear it from me, got that? I did not participate in sneering at her pregnant daughter or Downs kid or make disparaging remarks about her being Miss Wasilla, capisce? My couching my objections to your malodorous asides in neutral terms – it’s not that it’s Obama, it’s that it’s someone – should offer you a clue.

Ben’s first comment is right. There’s a double-standard here.

No. All there is is your and his childish attempts to turn the conversation to your chosen subject and declare others guilty of irrelevant ‘crimes’. Are you Richard Farnos in drag?

Gene- Point taken. The Obamerica really has made me a full-fledged retard. Goodbye, Oxford, Hello New York Tech.

“Oh, no. It’s because the 52% of Americans who voted for Obama are just stupid and gullible.”

Hmmm, I remember seeing a cartoon about that. Oh, here it is:

http://www.cagle.com/caglecards/main.asp?image=../../../working/081105/allie.jpg

In the interests of fairness, here’s one you may prefer:

http://www.cagle.com/caglecards/main.asp?image=http://cagle.com/working/081103/wolverton.jpg

“Bad grace. She has made far more deep gaffs.”

Gaffs…? I thought she was a hunter, not a fisher?

Oh, you mean ‘gaffes’…

“You wouldn’t hear it from me, got that? I did not participate in sneering at her pregnant daughter or Downs kid or make disparaging remarks about her being Miss Wasilla, capisce?..”

Why, no. Indeed. Not that you’ve just done so… ;)

“Are you Richard Farnos in drag?”

*peeks down blouse* Blimey, no! These are real…!

It was irresponsible of McCain to pick a person who was so unprepared and inexperencied for a national campaign as his VP. Whether Palin is as dumb as she is being potrayed may just be efforts by McCain to make her the main reason for McCain’s defeat, which she was not. (The main reason for McCain’s defeat was the on-going collaspe of the World Economy.) Palin’s unreadiness not only hurt her, but it hurt McCain’s creditablity as a reliable leader who would make the right choices, to pick a person as his back up who was not prepared to become President.

VP candidates have been jokes before without hurting the Presidential candidate much. Agnew in 68 & Qualye in 88 were both seen as light-weights. Attacks that they were unprepared to become President failed to hurt Nixon or Bush Sr in any significant degree. Palin’s unpreparedness did hurt McCain who at 72 would have been the oldest person ever elected President, because people wanted to be reassured that if McCain died or became disabled, his Vice President was ready to take over. Palin was obviously not ready to become President and that rightly scared people.

Palin did exactly what the Republican right strategists wanted her to do;

‘energise the base’.

She did exactly that in spades. The only problem is Rovism is now dead killed by reality.

McCain appealed to the centre and independents, until he chose a darling of the right who is not so much stupid as arrogant and vicious.

What she doesn’t know she doesn’t need to know, its a virtue that her supporters adore in her.

The problem is that a Presidential election has never been won by energising the base but by energising the centre.

The base strategy only works when there is a wedge to drive through the centre forcing over approximately half the centre to join the base voters.

A wedge is a cultural dividing line that must be bigged up, fluffed up and sprayed like big hair to stay in place over what can be a very small head.

There were no wedges that worked, surprisingly when all the paranoias and neuroses of Black/communist/terrorists were played upon.

But it has long been observed that in extreme social situations, mental health improves as neuroses disappear.

When faced with a really threatening reality people tend to face it rather than make it up.

Now Karl Rove has said that the Republicans failed because they didn’t follow his advice;

‘KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH ADVISER: Well, they should learn that we need to be able as a party and as a conservative movement to talk about the things that people are talking around the kitchen table about. What about their jobs, what about their health care, what about getting their kids schooled, getting their kids off to college, what about retirement security? And we need to talk about those issues in a way that makes sense to people sitting around the kitchen table.’
Well Karl Rove that might be what people were really talking about this election, but this is reality not a set of fabricated media generated ‘moral concerns’ about abortion and stem cell research and gay marriage.
This time the election was fought on the terrain of economic reality, a catastrophe that is really real, unlike the media cotton candy of ‘moral issues.
You weren’t paying attention this time Karl Rove,had McCain’s campaign concentrated on the the issue that looms large at every families table all the attention already focussed on that issue would have put the spotlight even more fully on the fact that the economic crisis occurred on the Republican watch.
All the spin in the world cannot make a wedge out of a economic catastrophe presided over by the policies of a party and a candidate that simply respond by urging more of the same.
In fact Mr Rove, your strategy was followed. Tthe base was energised they turned out to vote in droves, but they lost overwhelmingly on the highest turnout for decades.
Your strategy is dead Mr Rove, consumed by the economic carnage released by your party’s reckless ideologically driven wrecking party.
I would say its time to retire but you won’t and i don’t want you to. Please come back with Sarah Palin and her fanatically enthralled base for 2012, please give us more of the same, until you take your nasty, vindictive Rightwing Republican extremists into the wilderness with you.

Meir:

The point is that Obama either did not know that Auschwitz is in Poland, or he thought that the US army liberated Poland and other eastern territories. It is a pivotal fact of WW2 history that the Western Allies never went farther east than Germany, and all the territories to the east were conquered by the Red Army. And this fact determined the lines across which the ensuing Cold War was played out.

I would expect a US president to know these facts.

As for Obama’s tornado casualty comment, it betrays a lack of understanding of basic facts concerning the material world in which we live. Tornadoes, fearsome as they are, kill tens, or at most hundreds. Even hurricanes and wildfires kill less than the ten thousand figure Obama mentions, at least in the US. It is Asian typhoons and floods, and earthquakes, which are the big casualty-makers. I would expect any educated individual to know these facts, even if he has little scientific training, and even when he is tired.

In keeping with his campaign promise to reach across party lines, Barack Obama should name Sarah Palin ambassador to Africa.

Carlos the Carpenter

Why is my reply to Alec (posted 6 November 2008, 11:16 pm) still held in the moderation queue?

Is it because it has four links in, or is it that my comment regarding the question of whether I’m ‘Richard Farnos in drag’ is considered too saucy…?

She is the daughter of two school teachers, and she has raised 3 of her kids through school. It is not true that she thinks Africa is one country. It cannot be true – it can only be misspeaking, like Obama and his 57 States. The only reason for you to put a questionmark at the end of your post is because you want to want to want to believe it is true. Because you are a snob. Why would you believe that about Palin? What does it say about you that you believe that about the daughter of school teachers (and no, the ? is not good cover) – don’t answer, I’ll tell you – you’ve got no class. None. Can’t even win gracefully.

She is the daughter of two school teachers, and she has raised 3 of her kids through school. It is not true that she thinks Africa is one country. It cannot be true – it can only be misspeaking, like Obama and his 57 States. The only reason for you to put a questionmark at the end of your post is because you want to want to want to believe it is true. Because you are a snob. Why would you believe that about Palin? What does it say about you that you believe that about the daughter of school teachers (and no, the ? is not good cover) – don’t answer, I’ll tell you – you’ve got no class. None. Can’t even win gracefully.

I specifically said I was dubious about the report.

Besides which, WB, shouldn’t you be directing you outrage at the McCain campaign people who are saying these things about Palin?

I hope that Palin is the future of the Republican party, that should ensure a democratic administration for many years to come. The specious Bill O’Reilly et al. reasoning “that Palin can learn, geography, civics, etc. on the job” qualifies every natural born US citizen over 35 as REPUBLICAN presidential timber.
Ambition is not analogous with intelligence. All those right wing staffers will sign up for another dumb run for the presidency if Palin runs in 2012 no matter how much she made them cry. Palin keep the clothes, you deserve it, for making all Americans feel like foreign policy experts.