Harry’s Place

i think the ‘culture wars’ are over in America…young educated (and not so educated americans) couldn’t give a toss if someone is gay or black…plus they are pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-tax cuts for the rich…

Prop 8 says you’re wrong.

I think Sarah Palin is an extremely powerful icon with the potential to fundamentally alter the course Amercia ’s been on for years now.

I’ve come to that conclusion because of the incredible fear and panic she instilled in leftist circles.

It’s as though they don’t want Sarah to become conscious of her potential to capture the spirit of America, a spirit that’d be homegrown, authentic and entirely spontaneous, unlike that other spirit that is engineered construct.

Why else would leftists have gone to such viscious lengths (depths?) to assassinate her?

She’ll certainly be back in 2012.

Indeed. I expect –nay, demand — that the new Congress promptly ban handguns, legalize partial-birth abortions, and overturn the Defense Of Marriage Act.

The way to do this in the Republican Party is to introduce a sort of eleven plus test, if you fail you’re allowed to remain, if you pass then its the leper colony for you.

The site for the leper colony.

Which part of America is South America in?

The Democrats are prepared to be flexible (”pragmatic”, Rahm Emanuel calls it) on gun control and abortion. Excerpt from an Emanuel interview in yesterday’s Wall Street Journal:

“Mr. Emanuel has a reputation as a bullying political operative who stops at nothing to fill seats in Congress with Democrats. [. . .] In 2006, he made a tactical decision to recruit candidates who opposed abortion rights and gun control to run in more conservative-leaning districts. And although the strategy worked, it meant passing over more ideologically pure candidates, which didn’t sit well with some orthodox liberals.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122611134918910647.html

“I’ve come to that conclusion because of the incredible fear and panic she instilled in leftist circles.”

I think you’re confusing fear and panic with hilarity, pity, amazement and latterly, thanksgiving

John P. I had no idea what a moron you are.

Sara Palin, the woman who’s preacher lynched witches in Africa is the great white hope of the America?

Oh God, I just threw up in my mouth a little.

John P, I think I speak for all Democrats when I say to the Republicans: Please nominate Sarah Palin for President in 2012. Please!

http://www.sarahpalin.com/

Say no more.

Gene,
I’ve heard that a Gingrich/Palin “dream ticket” is being mooted in some parts of the party.
Although things are fluid at the moment, I’ve just seen Pat Robertson on Fox claiming that Obama has the potential to be a great President and Palin wasn’t fit to put on the ticket.
Bizarre.

http://www.sarahpalin.com/

Say no more.

That’s great. If Palin does decide to run in 2012, she’ll have to buy the URL from them.

The thing is, apart from the spat between McCain advisers and Sarah Palin, the eruptions in the GOP have not been as bad as one might have expected. This seems to be due to there not being any great shock that they lost. Senior republicans have been saying for the last two years that they were going to lose this election, and they had already worked out and agreed a set of broad reasons for this - George Bush, the economy, the war, and due to spending like the Democrats when in charge of the congress. So whilst there will inevitably be debate over exactly how they go forward, and David Frum’s issue of how the GOP attract young people and minorities is an issue that has been around longer than this election cycle, the huge ideological battle that would have accompanied a shock defeat may not occur.

Last week the Republican party began coping with that rejection. At the weekend retreat in rural Virginia of conservative icon Brent Bozell, founder of the watchdog group Media Research Centre, about 20 leading figures met to discuss their party’s future. Guests included anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist and Al Regnery, publisher of the American Spectator. After the talks Bozell gave a conference call where he revealed the meeting’s conclusion. ‘The moderate wing of the Republican party is dead,’ he said. That echoed conservative attacks on party moderates, such as columnists David Brooks and Peggy Noonan, who had criticised the right during the campaign. Some have called for them to leave the party.

Its not even begun yet.

I think it’s a bitter sweet moment for them. There’s no doubt there is some relief that they no longer have to defend George Bush and knowing the focus from now on will be on the Democrats.

They can’t blame the recession on the Democrats, of course, but unemployment could go up to 10 or 12% next year and there will be huge pressure on the Democrats to resolve the situation. Indeed, most of the politics on capitol hill from now on will be Democrat on Democrat as the different factions fight for their own agendas to take priority.

Hence Emmanuel as Chief of Staff.

Yeah, it was a good pick.

Perhaps if the Palin stands, the Democrats could put Obamas eldest daughter in the debate against her, just to even it up a bit.

JP,

I am shocked by your views

I am surprised by your defence of Sarah Palin

I had always assumed that Palin was too much of a dangerous leftie, for you?

Palin is the epitome of why the Republicans are in the state they are in.

I think you’re confusing fear and panic with hilarity, pity

Nope. The clear impression was one of terror. Even rabid Obama maniacs don’t invent sick slanders about figures of fun and pity, e.g. Jimmy Carter, Donald Duck, …

John P. I had no idea what a moron you are.

Josh, she’s the duly elected governor of Alaska who attacked and defeated corruption and whose approval ratings are among the highest of any U.S. governor.

Sara Palin, the woman who’s preacher lynched witches in Africa is the great white hope of the America?

Urban myth like the one disseminated claiming she didn’t know Africa was a continent.

When you vote for a prez, you don’t vote for a morality preacher, you don’t vote for a skin colour, and you don’t necessarily vote for the candidate who is most academically gifted.

You know, only a few years before Truman became president he was selling men’s shirts door-to-door in the american Midwest, and yet he was the architect, aided by many adivisor of course, who laid the foundations for the entire post-war period.

He was far from an intellectual, and yet was an excellent organiser and had great intuition and judgement.

Herman, people like you epitomise the way in which the Democrats and other assorted so-called ‘liberals’ have become dogmatic, sneering, intolerant, shrill and hysterical.

John P. I had no idea what a moron you are.

Oh God, I just threw up in my mouth a little

Yes, your illiteracy is enough to make anyone throw up, great ’scholar’. Look in the mirror before calling JP a ‘moron’: he has more discernment than you’ll ever have. You are another intolerant, sneering ‘liberal’ snob - and one recycling the standard ‘Democrat’ lies about Palin.

Unlike practical, respectful, easygoing, convivial types such as yourself. Not ranty at all.

They can’t blame the recession on the Democrats, of course

Oh yes, ‘of course’. None of the seeds were sown by Clinton. ‘Of course’.

Given your various silly rants, W., I wouldn’t go there if I were you.

Herman, people like you epitomise the way in which the Democrats and other assorted so-called ‘liberals’ have become dogmatic, sneering, intolerant, shrill and hysterical.

Hi pot, meet kettle.

Unlike practical, respectful, easygoing, convivial types such as yourself. Not ranty at all.

Can someone set up a script to respond like this every time N.O. calls people “shrill” and “hysterical”, please? It’s about twice a day on current form. He’s a tough cookie, but on basic Pavlovian principles he might get the message in a few months of this treatment…

He was far from an intellectual, and yet was an excellent organiser and had great intuition and judgement.

Not a community organiser I hope

Hey Palin = Harry S Truman now!

That was clever how you did that Mr Palibuski!

For his next trick Oliver Letwin = Churchill.

DavidT is quite right to quote Prop8 as evidence that the culture wars are very much alive and kicking - but there are interesting aspects to the makeup of this particular bigotry.

Take a look at http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1. CNN seem to have done something to their polls since election night, because the exit poll that CNN had up on their website on election night had Prop8 losing; but lets leave that to one side.

The level of bigotry displayed by black women (and to a somewhat lesser extent black men) in this poll is truely stomach-churning.

As an adoptive Californian, one of the things I love most about this state (besides the climate) is the prevalence of a live-and-let-live attitude to life - it goes a long way to making up for the high taxes and the gerrymandered mis-government of the Sacramento hacks.

I’m not surprised that many of my apparently reasonable neighbors would vote yes on 8 - and up to a point I’m willing to agree to disagree. But I’m not so sanguine about those of my neighbors who put hate signs in their front yards, and I will not be civil to them any time soon. Belief is one thing (esp allowing for the lies that were being preached from the pulpit across the sate last Sunday); openly campaigning to deny others civil rights is quite another. But it is clear that many of the hate-mongers voted for Obama, and indeed many of them identify as Democrats.

The culture wars continue unabated (abortion is another issue that is much less red and blue than is commonly portrayed), but it is time to challenge the zeitgeist. These issues were good for a few (percentage) points in critical states in critical elections, and the MSM has represented them as defining issues, but the bigger story of 2008 is the libertarian (broadly defined) defection from the GOP.

This is perfectly illustrated by CO - which went deciseively for Obama, and yet the affirmative action ban is so closely balanced that no result has been declared. For many years (and still in many quarters), to oppose affirmative action is to invite accusations of racism, but CO is not MS - those Coloradans voted against the racism inherent in affirmative action on libertarian principles, but would not vote for McCain.

By some measures, broadly defined libertarians are the largest swing vote in American elections - variously estimated in the 10-20% range. The Bush years of big government conservatism have finally lost the GOP the liberatrian support it enjoyed since Reagan. This didn’t happen through a civil war - it happened quitely over the 20 years since Reagan, and now finally the GOP is seeing the results. This wasn’t anything that Obama did (he breaks his few pro-liberty proimises as often as on everything else).

Ronald Reagan used to say that he didn’t leave the Dems - the Dems left him. An awful lot of voters with libertarian leanings made it clear last week that they now feel the same way about the GOP.

This election was lost the day the Dow slumped therough 10,000. Obama’s lack of libertarian sympathy gives the GOP the chance to pull the fat back out of the fire; if it happenes there probably won’t be any visible civil war or Goldwater/Reagan revival (things haven’t sunk that low yet).

John P. I had no idea what a moron you are.

(The one about lynching witches passed me by. Links?)

(The one about lynching witches passed me by. Links?)

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/09/26/palinist-witchunter/

I’m impressed by the intelligence of the Obama campaign that managed to put a cloned moron in front of Katie Couric and call it the Republican VP candidate.
Rahm Emmanuel is probably an Islamist hologram.

John P. -

You can’t skate over Palin’s failin’s (as she herself might dub them).

I didn’t like the instinctive response of the liberal elite which was to belittle and undermine. But after a while it became clear that there was no need for them to trouble themselves as she was belittling her own candidacy and undermining it perfectly effectively all by herself.

If you can’t name a couple of newspapers you read, even in this day and age you shouldn’t be running for Vice President. In fact you should know your way around every major newspaper. I know it’s a bit different in the USA, not having a truly national press, but even so.

Even in her latest go at the “jerks” she still sounded to me a bit uncertain about the Dark Continent - very dark to her it would seem.

I think she’s still got potential - she certainly can communicate a message - even though her lapses and gaffes have probably irredeemably put a big question mark over her. But if she goes away now and does A LOT of homework over the next two years, then - yes - perhaps she will be in contention. She’ll need to do a bit of globe trotting and shaking of hands as well.

If Obama screws up, the Iranians get their bomb, Bin Laden perpetrates a new outrage, the economy doesn’t recover - well then the game is anyone’s.

If Obama screws up, the Iranians get their bomb, Bin Laden perpetrates a new outrage, the economy doesn’t recover - well then the game is anyone’s.

Sounds like a John P wet dream

only a few years before Truman became president he was selling men’s shirts door-to-door

His business went bust in 1921!

He served in the Senate for ten years before his selection as FDR’s running mate. He also served as an artillery officer in World War I.

Palin did try to pull this sad Truman trick in the campaign. She was as desperate as JohnP is now.

Palin 2012 – yes please!

Cheers, Gene. That was on one of my Palin-free days.

Habibi knows what a moron John P. is.

Black preachers should stick to mainstream stuff, like claiming the CIA created AIDS.
That’s more presidential.

A comment from the thread Gene links to above, alluding to the views of the Reverend Wright, Obama’s preacher and spiritual advisor for 20 years.

It has now been five days since the election, and everyone is STILL talking Sarah.

And every link from Tims’s posting of two weeks ago leads back to the same pro-Obama website, a website that neglects to provide some important links to what it ‘claims’ are some of the official views of Palin’s pastor.

But Palin isn’t president and Obama is.

An Obama presidency will last only one term. It won’t heal the racial divide, but exacerbate it instead. We’re headed into a one-term administration that will prove deeply divisive, and which truly will be historic, if only for all the wrong reasons.

By this time next year with his halo tarnished and bent, Afro-americans will be referring to Obama as a certain brand of cookie, the economy will be at near depression era levels and our foreign policies an incoherent shambles as our enemies circle ’round like sharks, looking for any and all weak points.

It’s change you can believe in!

An Obama presidency will last only one term

No chance - this has two terms written all over it. Just watch

By this time next year with his halo tarnished and bent, Afro-americans will be referring to Obama as a certain brand of cookie, the economy will be at near depression era levels and our foreign policies an incoherent shambles as our enemies circle ’round like sharks, looking for any and all weak points.

Your bizarre fantasies of America’s downfall make you sound like a SWPer.

It has now been five days since the election, and everyone is STILL talking Sarah.

This coming from the Church which thinks in centuries! John P., d’you think your namesake was rash to apologize for the sacking of Constantinople after a mere eight?

our foreign policies

“Our”? Oh no. I thought you were Canadian? A 51st state might be nice, but Canada? No thanks.

Anyway, shouldn’t you be building a bunker in Yukon or something? Armageddon is coming, you know!

Habibi, how about Alberta as your 51st? It has oil, oil, oil!

“I’ve come to that conclusion because of the incredible fear and panic she instilled in leftist circles.”

I’ve heard people make that claim since Palin’s candidacy was announced. The truth is that fear and panic were expressed by Republicans like Peggy Noonan and David Brooks. Many Dems were surprised, indeed shocked by the choice of Palin. The consensus being that Palin would be a short buzz and a long hangover for the Repubs. That’s a far cry from fear and panic. Now it seems that some among the Repubs wish to extend the hangover.

I got no dog in that fight.

On the economy, it’s worth noting that FDR did NOT solve the USA’s depression. In fact if anything it got worse and deeper under him for several years. It was really rearmament which began to revive the economy.

I mention that just to underline that a further economic downturn doesn’t mean Obama will be refused a second term.

People understand this is a Republican recession - they were in power for 8 years and it happened on their watch. And, whilst Brown can slyly blame America for our recession, the Americans have no one else to blame. The buck stops there.

For anyone who’s interested in the entrails, here are the Republican Nominee odds for 2012.

http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&disp_cat_id=56&ev_class_id=33&ev_type_id=10627&ev_oc_grp_ids=88236&bir_index=

A bookmaker that makes Palin favourite and excludes Charlie Crist must belive that the Republican Party is constituted primarily of cretins.

“On the economy, it’s worth noting that FDR did NOT solve the USA’s depression. In fact if anything it got worse and deeper under him for several years.”

Unemployement in 1933: 24.9%
in 1938: 19.0%

You have a point, field. But Happy Days Were Here Again.

Mitt Romney should be the Rep 2012 candidate IMO

“Mitt Romney should be the Rep 2012 candidate IMO”

I want to be shamelessly pandered to for two or three years myself.

If the stories about McCain staffers briefing against Palin are true then I think we should all be very happy that McCain was prepared to appoint staff who were prepared to put country before Party.

GW

The CNN pol link doesn’t work

Your bizarre fantasies of America’s downfall make you sound like a SWPer

America will survive Obama.

But not the legacy of the 60s.

Oh yes, ‘of course’. None of the seeds were sown by Clinton. ‘Of course’.

The unravelling threads of the current economic ‘tapestry’ were all placed in the loom by the Dems.

They then switched it on and fled.

And faced with such a crisis America reacted with hysteria…stoked by the media of course…and as a result went into a frothing frenzy over obama in what will probably be remembered as one of the most absurd waves of self-deception in the history of american politics.

America hasn’t elected a messiah.

Nor has she elected a president or even a governor.

Amercia has elected a turnip.

Obama supporters here should demonstrate at least a modicum of persipicatiousness…and stock up on prozac.

It is probably so obvious I am afraid to ask but- Can someone explain why black men are listed as N/A in that poll?

“It is probably so obvious I am afraid to ask but- Can someone explain why black men are listed as N/A in that poll?”

Not at all obvious, ami. I have no idea.

Amercia has elected a turnip

Poor John P

““It is probably so obvious I am afraid to ask but- Can someone explain why black men are listed as N/A in that poll?””

Usually this would be because there were too few in the sample for sampling theory to be able to give a result with the desired confidence level.

McCain’s team appeared to put country before party only after McCain lost the election. Fox News reported that it was made plenty aware of the problems with Palin before the election loss, but could only reveal GOP concerns, after the loss. If the Republican briefer required an embargo on the newe until they lost, in what way did any Republicans put country before their own self-interets, during or after the election?

news = news

A bookmaker that makes Palin favourite and excludes Charlie Crist must belive that the Republican Party is constituted primarily of cretins.

Successful bookmakers don’t have a habit of misjudging the books they’re offering. They might believe that too many Republicans will be capable of believing “the worst” about Gov Crist’s long bachelorhood; that at least some elements of the party will be capable of exploiting these rumours and that plenty of voters would react negatively to them (even though they should be so want rumours) – and that the GOP will look for a candidate that appeals to the base rather than one that appeals to swing voters: that’s what shell-shocked parties often do.

Jindal looks the value bet at this stage, but really betting on politics four years’ hence is a mugs’ game.

It’s amusing that Melanie Phillips who has been so barbed about our dumbed down culture ends up supporting Palin who seems newspaper-phobic judging by her reaction to the Couric question and who, according to Republican fixers, gets confused over whether Africa is a continent or a country (note: she did not issue a straightforward denial). Meanwhile she excoriates the urbane and erudite Mr Obama - for palling up with extreme socialists, terrorists and race hate purveyors (faults which she has kindly forgiven when it comes to Israeli politicians - and indeed British politicians).

Who knows Sarah Palin maybe is the chosen to “renew” the tarnished GOP. She have been an A-student a pure product of right wing propaganda about economy and government etc the Bill O’Reillys, Limbaughs etc have “educated” her with the last decades. She has all the right right wing punch lines.

The Sarah Palins is the new GOP, is there any room for old school conservatives, if there is any left?

As someone wrote: Within the hierarchies of the old right, Sarah Palin’s style of pseudo working class conservatism was reserved for the proverbial back of the bus. Her type was not to speak, but to be spoken to; they were assigned to work as the foot soldiers in campaigns and be ignored until the next election. …

Honestly I don’t believe the Africa and Nafta smear, that is over top in the post election blame game. It was more than enough what she actually her self produced there is no need to caricature. And post election we are told that the nice, sensitive and benevolent old fool was kept in the dark about runaway Palin, she did start the Obama smear campaign all by her self – well that is usually the VP campaign job to say what president candidate cant say. She was chosen as a pawn to do the dirty work.

I don’t think the Africa thing was a smear. I think she got confused during a rehearsal. If she sat down and thought about it for a few minutes she’d probably get it right, but she was under pressure and the geographical knowledge was not firm enough to see her through.

She doesn’t read a newspaper, and that’s dangerous for a politician.

It’s amusing that Melanie Phillips who has been so barbed about our dumbed down culture ends up supporting Palin

Melanie Phillips and Sarah Palin: strangely made for each other.

Josh

I did warn you about JP, I’m just sayin’ :)