Harry’s Place

Excellent and well-structured expose. I hope all visitors read this item very carefully.

Thanks for this post. White History Month is something David Duke and his Klan buddies will probably take up in their drive to achieve some sort of respectability here in the US like the BNP is trying to do in Britain.

Slightly OT: Speaking of the KKK: In Duke’s home state of Louisana, a female Klan recruit was murdered when she tried to back out of her Klan initiation ceremony. See “Cops: Woman Slain Trying to leave KKK Rite” at http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/12/national/main4594977.shtml
I believe Bogalusa, Louisana where the head of this Klan group is from was noterious during the Civil Rights Movement for its Klan violence. It was in Bogalusa where a black self-defense group, Deacons for Defense was founded and which spread through many southern sates.

BNP appears to be a Nazi controlled subversive organisation dedicated to the overthrow of our constitution. I think it should be banned.

However I think Black History month is a big mistake. Call it African History if you like, or African and African-Caribbean. But if you are going to accept skin colour as some sort of significant genetic marker then you are half-way to BNP’s world view already.

Sorry - that should have been:

Ban it and confiscate all its assets .

Very good article, I’d glad someone has the patience to read through Kemp’s dull, dull works.

However:

After all, the BNP even has an elected Jewish councillor.

People shouldn’t echo the BNP in thinking this is something new.

It is relatively new in the sense of British fascist parties getting councillors elected but there has always been a small Jewish presence on the far right. For example, at least one two time parliamentary candidate for the openly anti-Semitic National Front was Jewish.

The BNP trumpet this like it’s something new because it helps support the idea they have transformed into a friendly patriotic party with an unfortunate history.

Black history month is vital because every other month is effectively white history month. It’s the one time in the year we get to stop boring children to death about the Tudors, Cromwell, the Wars of the Roses etc. and teach them something that is of direct relevance to a significant proportion of those in the class instead.

I find their outlook revolting.

But let us postulate this scenario:

I’m not going to say or do anything about it.

They aren’t presenting a threat to me, or mine. And what am I expected to do anyway?

Take to the streets with a protest march against them? Some of them are not averse to violence you know. They might smack me in the gob and let my tyres down.

They are the same colour as me, that’s all. So what?
The vast majority of white, Christian( ish) people don’t go in for this nonsense anyway. In fact they don’t even know it is there. It is nothing to do with us.

Only a racist would expect me to go out of my way to denounce them.

And if I show up in public wearing one of their emblems, it is a matter of personal choice, and no business of yours if I won’t shake my lily white hands with you or even speak to you on the ‘phone.

Sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander. We deserve this, we bloody well asked for it, and here it comes.

The BNP may have a new image, and the swastika flags and Hitler portraits may no longer appear in publicity pictures, but with its endorsement of March of the Titans, it is clear that the old Nazi sympathies are still very much present.

Good article, Edmund. Your excerpt from the BNP website mentions it, but it should be emphasised that the BNP does not only endorse March of the Titans but also employs Arthur Kemp.

He was drafted into the party in 2004 by Nick Griffin to advise on election strategy, and is now part of its leadership structure. Described as “Culture Officer”, he heads the party’s education and training department. According to Searchlight, he is also in charge of marketing.

The BNP website features several videos of Kemp addressing party meetings. What their glowing reviews fail to mention is that prior to his tenure with the BNP, Kemp was a leading light on the Holocaust “revisionist” scene, and has associations with neo-Nazi groups across the world, including the U.S-based National Alliance and Germany’s NPD.

It also leaves out his time in South Africa, where, as the Southern Poverty Law Centre points out:

“During the late 1980s and early 1990s, Kemp was a pro-apartheid journalist, and in 1990 he wrote a glowing history of the white supremacist Afrikaner Resistance Movement (Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging, or AWB). Founded in 1970, the AWB was created to establish a new Boer nation that would preserve white rule.

Kemp did not limit himself to merely promoting white supremacism:

“Kemp ultimately went to work as a sergeant in the South African security forces, which were implicated in assassinations and other violence directed at the African National Congress (ANC) and other militant opponents of apartheid. Then, in 1993, leading ANC activist Chris Hani was assassinated, shot three times in the head at short range as he stepped from his car in Johannesburg.”

“Kemp, described by British newspapers at the time as an official of the National Intelligence Service (which denied any link to the Hani assassination), was interrogated by police in the murder but never charged. He admitted to drawing up a roster of names, headed by Mandela and followed by Communist Party leader Joe Slovo and then Hani, which authorities described as a hit list. Kemp claimed he didn’t know it was to be used as a murder guide and offered up shifting explanations of the list, including the claim that it was “to be used merely for research purposes.”

“Later in 1993, murder charges in the Hani assassination were brought against the assassin (not Kemp) and a couple, Clive Derby-Lewis and his wife, Gaye. Kemp testified against the couple, saying they admitted to involvement during a lunch the three had together two days after Hani’s death. (Kemp and Clive Derby-Lewis then both worked for a far-right newspaper, The Patriot.) Clive Derby-Lewis and the actual assassin, Janusz Walus, were found guilty and sentenced to death (both death sentences were later commuted to life), while Gaye Derby-Lewis was acquitted.”

“The fact that Kemp apparently avoided prosecution by cooperating with prosecutors and giving damning testimony against the Derby-Lewises may have made it difficult for him to remain on good terms with the South African radical right. Many activists in the racist movement believe Kemp moved on to Europe and the United States later because his former comrades came to detest him.”

“In any case, in 1996, two years after South Africa held free elections, Kemp relocated to Britain.”

“In the late 1990s, South Africa held Truth and Reconciliation Commission hearings that offered amnesty to many of those who carried out violence either for or against the apartheid regime if they publicly confessed to those crimes. During one of those hearings, Gaye Derby-Lewis accused Kemp of aiding the assassination by providing the hit list and knowing what it was for. Kemp denied it.”

I wonder if any of that will be included in White History Month?

I wasn’t familiar with Kemp? a historian? hardly:

“A notorious South African white supremacist, once accused of participating in planning a major terrorist assassination in his home country, has become a key player in the National Alliance, formerly America’s leading neo-Nazi group.

…”

read on:

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=853

On a related topic, I passed by the Cenotaph today, and stopped to look at the wreaths laid during Sunday’s Remembrance ceremony.

On the side facing the Foreign Office, my eye caught two wreaths that seemed to have been misplaced (they were laid half on top of other wreaths placed by the Commonwealth High Commissioners). On closer inspection, they featured a Union Jack, and in small print read: “In memory of the National Front.”

How bloody outrageous. On a memorial that commemorates the war dead, including those soldiers of all races and religions who died fighting fascism in WW2, some Nazi-worshipping wanker had come along in the dead of night, climbed over the barrier and put them there. Directly over the Commonwealth wreaths too.

Another reminder, if any were needed, that neo-Nazis are total cunts.

Above post reminds me. Why was there no post for Remembrance Day? Should have been one for the 90th anniversary of the end of the Great War.

more on Kemp and the BNP

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/2008/09/storm-over-white-history-bnp-book.html

Because HP had the good sense to realise that this Remembrance Industry had got out of control and had become a meaningless emotional charade that had little to do with the stoical generations who saw off the Kaiser and the Nazis?

[David All, its all off topic, but HP is not a factory or a newspaper, people post what they feel like posting on and when they want to post, it is a random set of events, no planning, etc

I waspart way thru writing something on the WW1 but couldn't bring myself to finish it, that's what happens, it is rather fluid

remember if you've got an idea for a post, write it, HP does do guest posts, no guarantee it will be posted but you could try]

Great expose David T.

As usual.

I have forwarded a link to friends.

“Only a racist would expect me to go out of my way to denounce them. ” (Monty)

You have been outed as the far right creep you are, Monty. Same tactics, same feeling.

@ChrisC
“Black history month is vital because every other month is effectively white history month. It’s the one time in the year we get to stop boring children
to death about the Tudors, Cromwell, the Wars of the Roses etc. and teach them something that is of direct relevance to a significant proportion of those
in the class instead.”
So “black history” is relevant to black people and should be taught to all, but “white history”whatever it is boring and not directly relevant to all.
Why is “black history” more relevant to blacks, than “white history” is to whites?
Or is it really about blacks having a legitimate right to state reinforcement of a unique racial identity while whites have none?

LC, it works like this:

Children have one month a year in which they have a chance to learn about the history and heritage of the non-white children in the class.

Children have ten months a year in which they have a chance to learn about the history and heritage of the white children in the class.

They get August off.

Er… That’s it.

Fair enough?

@ChrisC
History is not racial but common property.
The function of education is not reinforcement of racial identity through education but teaching of subjects based on merit.
What about other identity groups? Should we also have gay history, woman history month or other balkanized education?

ChrisC is right in essence, but states it in an unhelpful and needlessly competitive way.

It is true that every day is white, male, heterosexual, political-class history day. But that doesn’t make that history any less interesting or relevant to everybody, just as black history, or gay history, or the history of working people ought to just as interesting to evybody else too. The idea of Black History Month (and other similar history months) to to redress the balance and reintroduce histrories which, um, ‘historically’, have been overlooked, ignored and indeed supressed.

However, to imply that white, male, heterosexual, political-class history is not just as relevant to a working class black lesbian is to simultaniously imply that her history isn’t relevant to others. It is.

And for this reason, I think it is very unhelpful to set up alternative histories as being in competition with mainstream histories in terms of interest and relevance. Black History Month is just as much for the benefit of non-Black people as anyone. BHM attempts to restore a balance, not create a hostory ghetto. It is not more interesting and relevant, it is as interesting and relevant. That’s the point!

This is a great post, nobody should be in any doubt that the BNP is a fascist/neo-Nazi party. In the early 1960’s BNP held meeting in Trafalgar Square under a banner that stated, ‘Free Britain from Jewish Control’. From that time on they have been at forefront of Nazi movement in the UK, in the late 60’s leaders were convicted for organising paramilitary campaigns, in the 70’s they brought SS officers to Brighton to address members, in the 80’s their leader Richard Edmonds was responsible for spreading Holocaust denial literature. BNP leadership is Nazi to the core.

The fact that the odd Jew collaborates doesn’t make this less so. I remember the Jewish guy in Riding House Street (can’t remember his name) who made supplied goods to Combat 18, there was also a Jewish NF candidate in 70’s. This says nothing about policies of the Nazi parties and everything about the individuals involved.

Nazi’s and fascists should always be opposed. Monty, your both a coward and a fool.

An excellent post. I only have one small quibble.

The sentence “…. written by a white South African with a ‘Nordic’ racial obsession.” betrays an unconscious prejudice which implies that being white and South African automatically makes one a suspect racist. This is not fair. It should read “….written by a South African white supremacist with a ‘Nordic’ racial obsession.”

Benjamin H. Freedman was one of the most intriguing and amazing individuals of the 20th century. Born in 1890, he was a successful Jewish businessman of New York City at one time principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company. He broke with organized Jewry after the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945, and spent the remainder of his life and the great preponderance of his considerable fortune, at least 2.5 million dollars, exposing the Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States.

Mr. Freedman knew what he was talking about because he had been an insider at the highest levels of Jewish organizations and Jewish machinations to gain power over our nation. Mr. Freedman was personally acquainted with Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermyer, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, John F. Kennedy, and many more movers and shakers of our times. The Willard Hotel, Washington, D.C., speech was given before a patriotic, Christian audience (NOT before Nazis as some have suggested) in 1961 on behalf of Conde McGinley’s patriotic newspaper of that time, Common Sense.

Though in some minor ways this wide-ranging and extemporaneous speech has become dated, Mr. Freedman’s essential message to us ― his warning to the West ― is more urgent than ever before.
http://iamthewitness.com/audio/Benjamin.H.Freedman/?dir=Willard.Hotel.1961 . I know you’ll love it.

Agree with everything in the article.

However, I too am uncomfortable with “Black History month”, in spite of Brett’s gallant defence. The point is that the label is highly divisive. We have history, seemingly, which depends on the colour of your skin. Now the aim may be to present alternative views but in that case it should be called “Alternative History month” or something similar.

ChrisC-”It’s the one time in the year we get to stop boring children to death about the Tudors, Cromwell, the Wars of the Roses etc. and teach them something that is of direct relevance to a significant proportion of those in the class instead.”

Anyone who thinks the Tudors, Cromwell or the Wars of the Roses were “boring” needs their head examining. Anyone who thinks they weren’t “relevant” obviously didn’t understand what they were being taught. All were crucially important to the country we now live in.

“Children have one month a year in which they have a chance to learn about the history and heritage of the non-white children in the class.”

It is the implication, contained in this, that black and white britons cannot claim a shared heritage, that so many find wrong-headed and divisive. I know black people whose ancestors settled in this country much earlier than mine did, but many people will tell them that their history and heritage is exotic and exceptional while assuming that mine is the mainstream British (’white’) one of the textbooks. Why on earth should this be?

I have been arguing the same as Chris for ages. Black History month was once more necessary than it is today. Personally WI think is that whoever manages the national curriculum needs to sit down and properly integrate black history into history teaching, so that people of all ethnicities get to learn a balanced history instead of the whitewashed one we get now and then the wedged in separatist black history month.

‘flipside’ above links to a site which states that 9/11 was a master plot, concocted by a handful of Israelis and dual passport Americans and carried out by the resources of the Mossad. Moron.

I’m a lot less worried about the influence of obvious scum like Griffin and Kemp than I am about the influence of best selling scum like Mark Kurlansky and Nicholson Baker.

Anyone who thinks the Tudors, Cromwell or the Wars of the Roses were “boring” needs their head examining.

Boring or not, taught by a middle-class history graduate with 2 hours a week to a class of inner-city kids it is very hard to make them seem at all relevant. And this is what the BNP exploits with its “white history month.” Stepping into the gap between what most people are taught as “history” (Kings and Queens and dictators) they present an Irvingesque view of the social history of ordinary people which whilst being 90% true (and allowing them both to claim it as “white history” and the more intelligent kids to recognise it is much more about people like themselves than ‘itler and the ‘enry’s.)

The classic case is the “alternative” history of slavery (which was up on one of the sites connected with Troy Southgate and his mob - I forget whic, may remember later.) Freed from the shackles of two hours a week and the need to actually teach about the effect of the atlantic slave trade on Africans;it talked of bonded Labour, the conditions of (often virtually press-ganged) sailors on board the slave-ships and slave-like conditions of factory-hands in England - all very true and unlikely to be taught on any course in an English school. And so, the BNP can say they are revealing truths hidden from school pupils, hint at a conspiracy (by whom I wonder?) and collect up members for their party. The answer? To truly integrate all history and to give teachers more time to teach it (and the exam boards need to give courses into what needs to be taught too.)

The single most dangerous thing going on in schools at the moment is that history is no longer a compulsory subject past the age of 14

What amazes me is the point made several times that we believe in free speech but only if its what we want to hear.

Whatever happened to the saying and I quote:-
“I may disagree with everything you say but I would fight to the death for your right to say it”. Unquote.

Why is it OK to have a Black History month but not a White History month, a Black Police association but not a white police association.
Why should our children be obliged to learn black history and have their own history erased. Would the same standards be applied in India, the Middle East, or Africa. Of course not. Unfortunately most comments here are just as biased as they say the BNP are.

Why is it OK to have a Black History month but not a White History month

Possibly because the black history month is a long-running thing endorsed by many national organisations and local councils whilst the “white history month” that we are talking about here is being run by the British National party?

Just a thought - though i would still personally like to see a broader, more integrated history taught in schools.

Steve M. No it doesn’t. Well said Ray.

“Why should our children be obliged to learn black history and have their own history erased. “

Erased? What planet are you living on?

“-”It’s the one time in the year we get to stop boring children to death about the Tudors, Cromwell, the Wars of the Roses etc. and teach them something that is of direct relevance to a significant proportion of those in the class instead.””

A high percentage of British people with some African Carribean ancestry - and who would be typically therefore regarded as ‘black’ - will also have White European ancestors (and possibly Carrib ancestors as well).

Now, I don’t know if you saw the programme in which a black guy from London, who was very “afrocentric”, looked at his genes, and discovered that his Y chromosome would originated in Germany, suggesting that he had a European paternal ancestor.

This resulted in a radical change of view. He said that he had sat through lessons on the 100 years war, and thought ‘this has nothing to do with me and my people’; but now realised that he had been learning the history of his family.

He said that the only down side was that his mates at work were now talking to him in a cod German accent, while goosestepping around.

He went off to Niger, which was where his mDNA came from, and promptly took the name - courtesy of a dippy Danish anthropologist - of a Niger historical figure, whose name meant “Slave Fighter”. His reasoning was that:

- his family had once been slaves; and
- they had always been fighting for their liberty.

Later, he discovered that “Slave Fighter”, in fact meant “Slave Capturer”, and felt a bit foolish.

“It is a lot more complicated than I thought”, he concluded at the end.

Black history month is vital because every other month is effectively white history month.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27933

Re: Griffin’s Holocaust revisionism; as recent as last year, in an interview with The Times, he was pushing this version of events “The rules of warfare on the Eastern Front allowed 50 civilian hostages to be shot for each soldier killed in a partisan attack, Griffin states without trace of irony. “When you consider that the communists claim the partisans killed at least 10,000 German soldiers, that would account for five million people being shot to death.” ”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article1672185.ece

“Being shot to death”? No gas chambers?

I really do think that we have to take into account that there is a powerful trope in British history in particular (which started with the Normans) that the ruling class are “the winners” and so it is their history which is taught and the history of ordinary people is ignored or “erased” (if we must). To counter that (and stop the BNP being able to exploit any romantic “Robin Hood” views of history that they may sell) there needs to be more history taught at school. It should (for instance) be compulsory that we are taught about the reform acts and how everyone got the vote. Would anybody argue with that?

Nothing wrong with black history month,i like boxing and singing,what month are they talking about?

The BNP is racist and quasi-fascist?? Shock horror.

These kind of exposes simply confirm the BNP’s reputation as the main anti-establishment party in the minds of many voters.

What we should be doing is making a concerted effort to remove the language of ‘race’ from the political discourse. As long as it remains, it will perpetuate the idea of ‘differentness’ and ’seperateness’ inherent within multiculturalist ideology.

And can we refrain from the infantile demands to ban the BNP? Doing so would concede defeat to them, admit that their arguments are stronger than ours and drive them underground, probably resulting in a resurgence of organisations like Combat 18.

We could not have hoped for a better result. In fact it is rather exciting! Instead of a boring theoretical discussion about what arseholes racist BNP supporters are, ‘Ray’ and ‘Flipside’ have been kind enough to take time out of their very busy schedules to demonstrate this for us in person. Thanks guys. Appreciated! Your work is done. We’re convinced. You can go now.

Joseph K.,

No Nazi wankers adding their wreaths to the Cenotaph in the dead of night. The National Front marched in the Remembrance Day parade as they have done every year since about 1967 and placed their wreath on the monument along with the rest of them.

This year there was around 80 of them marching under the NF banner, one of the lowest turnouts yet.

” It should (for instance) be compulsory that we are taught about the reform acts and how everyone got the vote. Would anybody argue with that?”

We did that at school, and very interesting it was too.

” It should (for instance) be compulsory that we are taught about the reform acts and how everyone got the vote. Would anybody argue with that?”

As long as it is coupled with discussion of current voting patterns. Something along the lines of:

Look what these people went through to get the vote for common little twerps like you. Now get out there and assert your rights you bunch of whining scrotes…

Would anybody argue with that?

White history month? Should that include something about how a Middle Eastern religion was forced upon native pagans?

“I think Black History month is a big mistake.”

Why? Do black people not have a history? Black History Month gives an opportunity to appreciate the role of black people in British history. Not just slavery and post-war immigration, but the contribution black people have made to Britain, such as this: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/royalfamily.html

Liberty,if it means anything,is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear. Now shut ya mouth Brett,hmmm.

This quote from the PBS documentary referenced above recalled the work the Nazi’s did with calipers to find the so-called hidden Jews.

With features as conspicuously Negroid as they were reputed to be by her contemporaries, it is no wonder that the black community, both in the U.S. and throughout the British Commonwealth, have rallied around pictures of Queen Charlotte for generations. They have pointed out the physiological traits that so obviously identify the ethnic strain of the young woman who, at first glance, looks almost anomalous, portrayed as she usually is, in the sumptuous splendour of her coronation robes.

I thought this had died out with the South African pencil test.

Unbelievable.

As long as it is coupled with discussion of current voting patterns.

Trouble is if they were current voting patterns it wouldn’t be history that was being taught but Government and Politics. Of course you could argue that teaching about the disillusionment with the political system that people seem to have felt over the last fifty years was as important as teaching about how the vote was gained, but it wouldn’t really stand up to inspection - point is that there is precious little time to teach kids ANY history so we should make sure it is something they need to know rather than the speciality subject of a universtay graduate.

flipside, I thought the BNP were supposed to be trying to put on a less ignorant and obnoxious face these days to try and stop being routinely humiliated in elections. You’re not doing them any favours here, are you.

I’m not the BNP.

Interesting post but I’m not sure that exposing the BNP as far-right white supremacists is much of a scope, to be honest. Exposing links of mainstream politicians to far right groups, on the other hand, would be revealing. And given that we’re in recession and job losses are climbing, how about some stories about workers being shafted? Or the insanity that is the tax-cutting bandwagon all the parties are clambering on (and I say that even as an advocate of small government)? Of course I could write something myself and submit if for posting I guess but I’ve got some serious surfing to do now and I’m well behind.

British jobs for British people. Gordon Brown.

there is precious little time to teach kids ANY history so we should make sure it is something they need to know rather than the speciality subject of a universtay graduate.

-Graham

I would have thought that a class warrior such as your good self would be in favour of the common little scrotes voting. Sorry for my error.

I would have thought that a class warrior such as your good self would be in favour of the common little scrotes voting.

Firstly I have never advocated class war and secondly whether I am in favour of them voting or not is irrelevant to what they are taught as history.

better luck next time with your sour grapes!

So you think that they should be taught about the fight for universal suffrage but you don’t think that right is important any more? What strange fellows you middle class types are?

So you think that they should be taught about the fight for universal suffrage but you don’t think that right is important any more?

None of this follows! What strange types you mentally ill people are!

You’re not middle class? Cripes, I am in a muddle today.

Stu(pid) I’m quite happy that people are taught about contemporary voting trends in Govet and politics lessons - but this thread is about history.

Do you quite get that?

What on earth has my class got to do with any of this?

Graham:
talked of bonded Labour, the conditions of (often virtually press-ganged) sailors on board the slave-ships and slave-like conditions of factory-hands in England - all very true and unlikely to be taught on any course in an English school.

I remember learning about both serfdom and labour under the industrial revolution. For two glorious years we had a Jewish, probably socialist teacher who really made the Middle Ages and the Victorian era come alive. The focus was very much on the experiences of ordinary people. We did role play as medieval villagers, had to write essays from the perspective of convicts being transported to Australia, re-enacted the debates (in Parliament and outside) over the Reform Acts, etc.. He was a lot better than the very old school teacher who took us, by strict rote, through the Bronze and Iran Ages in the first year (he also took us for swimming, and used to insist on watching us shower, supposedly to make sure we were doing it properly) and the incredibly accomplished but utterly dull teacher we had at GCSE level, who managed to make WWII seem boring and should probably have been a University lecturer.

Do they have Govt and politics lessons in the National Curriculum? Also I thought this thread was about making history teaching relevant. Why are you so against relevancy?

What on earth has my class got to do with any of this?

You are the one who brought your class into this.

Boring or not, taught by a middle-class history graduate with 2 hours a week to a class of inner-city kids it is very hard to make them seem at all relevant.
- Graham

You are some sort of a history teacher aren’t you?

Bronze and Iran Ages

Xerxes?

Stu(pid)

Priceless! You truly are a punning witster.

Graham is not middle class. He is a bit like this

Do they have Govt and politics lessons in the National Curriculum?

Do you really not know this? Why are you commenting here? Are you perhaps just lonely?

You are the one who brought your class into this.

Wrong. I was once taught history in an inner-city school by a middle-class teacher however.

You are some sort of a history teacher aren’t you?

Wrong again (I have taught history however but I have no actual history degree.)

Gregg. The quality of teacher is the problem I think. Most history lessons are taught by someone who is qualified in the subject but who may have specialised in Ancient Sumeria (by contrast many Govt and Politics lessons are, like RE thrown to supply teachers or whoever can be found.) But there is an art to making history relevant to whatever kind of school you are in and all too often I fear it isn’t an art which many pupils ever get to see.

Here is Graham, out for a night on the tiles with his lovely lady wife.

Graham is not middle class. He is a bit like this

Oh me old dad - dontcha just love him Mr T sir?

Actually the wife is the Yank with the dodgy cockney accent in this family.

Graham looks like this (http://catweazel.org/) but in corduroy pants.

Plunk!

Graham
But there is an art to making history relevant to whatever kind of school you are in and all too often I fear it isn’t an art which many pupils ever get to see.

That is the thing, I think, rather than knowing the period intimately (at school level, I think you just need to be able to follow the text book and make the pupils want to as well). The history teacher I had in the fourth and fifth years was undoubtedly qualified to teach about WWII. He really did know his stuff, and meeting him years later I was fascinated to discuss the period with him. But he was completely incapable of teaching 14yo boys. He couldn’t sustain our interest for five minutes, let alone an entire hour. Between that and the fact that his classroom was on the ground floor and beside the school field, half the class used to sneak out the windows and go and play football - and if he noticed (and looking back, I’m sure he must have) he never fucking said anything. I heard he was a lot better at A-Level, but he’d killed my interest at that time and I dropped History after GCSE in favour of Classics (which was much more fun).

I’ve MET Graham. He looks far more like this

Agree totally Gregg. Unlike Mr T I was not taught about the reform acts and the vote at school (in fact the first time I studied it in detail I was myself preparing an A level course for adults - don’t worry most of them passed.)

Many inner-city schools would be best teaching WW! in history all the time as there is basically a kind of trench warfare going on between the pupils and a teacher who understands neither his charges nor how to get them interested in his subject.

Graham looks like this (http://catweazel.org/) but in corduroy pants.

No, actually, I look like that. But in bondage trousers and a long black coat.

I have met both david T and Ven and they look like this:

http://www.jewcy.com/files/images/boris_johnson_and_david_cameron.img_assist_custom.jpg

Graham’s spelling got better…

graffitti

In their younger days they posed for this:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_1/CameronEton_600×539.jpg

“It should (for instance) be compulsory that we are taught about the reform acts and how everyone got the vote. Would anybody argue with that?”

I was taught that in my history classes in New Zealand, about British reform acts and how everyone got the vote as well as Education acts. The bit of British history they didn’t teach us was how Britain acquired the land we lived in, or anything about nineteenth century British imperalism, which would have been a bit more relevant. What should be taught in history in plantation colonies is always contentious.

Still, I’m glad to have been taught the reform and suffragette stuff, and when I cast my vote these days I think of those brave women getting tortured under the Liberal government.

Catweazle actually looks more like Alec macpherson in a Thatcher wig.

The bit of British history they didn’t teach us was how Britain acquired the land we lived in, or anything about nineteenth century British imperalism, which would have been a bit more relevant.

Or indeed how people were forced off the land they had lived on and shipped off to places like NZ…

I am (to say the least) a bit sceptical about things like “black history month” or “herstory” or whatever sectarian group (of whom it must be said that the BNP are among the very worst) is trying to harnass education to promote their agenda (I’m also opposed to the notion of a national curriculum too: like the national lottery, that sort of thing seems more in place in Caecescu’s Romania, rather than here).

(Although I notice that my local council, in Saffend-on-C did manage to get Floella Benjamin along to play a big role locally in black history month this year - which at least answered the question of what’s happened to her) But I do certainly agree that there is a problem with “victors’ history” shaping syllabuses. But to say that the rest of the year’s history is about “white people” is facile anti-intellectual and stupid: it’s not - it’s not about the history of people who have shaped these isles. The colour of their skin (like that of any US President) is irrelevant to anyone except a racist - even those who think themselves anti-racist.

or rather - “it’s not: it’s about the history of people who have shaped these isles”

Usually it is about the history of (some) people who have shaped these isles.

The problem is that there is a whole lot of history and a finite amount of time to teach it.

“Or indeed how people were forced off the land they had lived on and shipped off to places like NZ…”

Ah, their lucky, lucky descendants.

funny how someone criticises black history month and immediately everyone assumes they’re BNP. didnt even you lefties see the Guardian’s pull-out and cringe a little bit at the patronising racism of the whole thing?

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/forgottenslaves.html .People who have shaped these isles.

Have I missed something of what’s going on between Graham and Stu?

Disturbingly, I had a J.G. Ballard like dream last night; except, for some reason, Graham was there looking like the one on the left.

P.S. I first learned of and was inspired to look further into the Reform Acts by Graham. My history teacher was pretty cool, but not like that.

Well, Stu. It might be because pretty much every link that “flipside” has posted connects to a neo Nazi site, which is blocked by my work.

That’s kind of the giveaway for me.

But on the substantive point of this very good post. The BNP always slouches back to swastika waving fascism. In the past I wondered why take that line which is likely to be unpopular in a country which was bombed by swastika waving fascists and whose people take pride that they fought such types. Nazis are seen as heiling clowns or as sinister bastards in popular culture eg Dad’s Army or “Allo ‘Allo. Is it inherent in white supremacist political movements that they have to include a large streak of holocaust denying anti-semitism and pro-Nazism? Logically, it doesn’t seem a necessary part of white supremacism and politically it is inexpedient. So why return to it like the dog returning to his vomit? Does anyone know of any white supremacist groups that do not contain that kind of thing?

Ed, was ChrisC accused of being B.N.P? I didn’t notice. I did, however, see a poster who coo’d over an antisemitic Jew and who is defending the concept *White* History being accused so.

Well, Stu. It might be because pretty much every link that “flipside” has posted connects to a neo Nazi site, which is blocked by my work.

This is in answer to which one of my comments?

“Does anyone know of any white supremacist groups that do not contain that kind of thing?”

Far right politics is usually a cross between a personality disorder and a sexual fetish.

I suspect David mistukened you for Ed, Stu.

Is Nick Griffin gay? Given Pim Fortyn and the revelations around Jorge Haider it would be nice to know.

And Graham looks like this, surely:-

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b3/Navvy.JPG/250px-Navvy.JPG

When I’m feeling unkind, I imagine Ven as looking like Pemwish (Peter “excuse me while I spit” Hitchens). Normally, though, it’s like this.

Far right politics is usually a cross between a personality disorder and a sexual fetish.

I think this is true of all extreme political and religious types. I don’t think the right has a monopoly.

Black History month is a load of crap in the same way Kwanza is a load.

Just a thought - though i would still personally like to see a broader, more integrated history taught in schools.

You couldn’t be more wrong.

You’re lving in England and so should teach british history. Good, old-fashioned british history presented in a concise and coherent manner so that new arrivals will have coherent narrative to adopt and to graft themselves onto.

If you opt for a patchwork curriculum, you’ll end up with a fractured society.

By the way, if Blacks want to have a Black History Month, then by all means they should.

However, no gov’t subsidies or public monies should be devoted to such an enterprise.

If Black History Month is so important to Black self-esteem and Black consciousness and Black identity as Blacks so often claim, then surely blacks should have the enthusiasm, energy and motivation to finance the event themselves.

Venichka is definitely more like this Alec.

You’re lving in England and so should teach british history.

British? What on earth do we want to go teaching people about the doings of those sub-human Celts for? Surely you mean English history John P you bounder!

May well be. John P. is the one on the right with Graham.

I think this is true of all extreme political and religious types. I don’t think the right has a monopoly.

There are tales of eye-popping prurience in Stalin’s Russia, as well as the blind-terror which Yezhov was reputed to instil in female colleagues and Beria’s fondness for Ossetian girls.

And Graham looks like this, surely:-

Tch a pre-Raphaelite fantasy of the working man?

Right that’s done it - if you live in new Zealand you must look like this:

http://www.illusionsgallery.com/Pretty-Baa-Lambs-Brown.html

The sheep would be looking nervously at the farmer as he loosens his belt…

More dim White Supremacists.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gTN4X0wjHOqwUq80wkQpbe8qVXlgD94DA1GG0

“The IQ level of this group is not impressive, to be kind,” St. Tammany Parish Sheriff Jack Strain said Tuesday.

You’re lving in England and so should teach british history. Good, old-fashioned british history presented in a concise and coherent manner so that new arrivals will have coherent narrative to adopt and to graft themselves onto.

Which is of course what happens now.

But why deny kids the chance to learn about non-British history? Why can’t they be taught about Ancient Rome or Ancient Egypt? The French Revolution? The American Civil War?

Why is it OK to have a Black History month but not a White History month, a Black Police association but not a white police association.
Why should our children be obliged to learn black history and have their own history erased. Would the same standards be applied in India, the Middle East, or Africa. Of course not. Unfortunately most comments here are just as biased as they say the BNP are.

You have a point.

In Montreal there are large Chinese and Vietnamese communities, but one nevers hears either clamering to hold a Chinese History Month or a Vietnamese History Month, let alone at tax-payer’s expense.

The mere fact that Blacks… and more recently the poor, oppressed Muslims… need a history month is tantamount to both admitting they’re stupid, backward and remedial.

Have Italian, Polish, Irish or Jewish immigrants ever expressed the need for gov’t to declare that an entire month be devoted to their respective histories?

It’s like asking the gov’t to finance lessons in how to chew your food.

Imagine having the bite to ask gov’t to subsidise a How-To-Chew-Your-Food Month?

You must remember that John P lives in Canada - A country in which every interesting event of the past thousand years can be covered in one half-hour lesson.

This is Kaybee.

You’re lving in England and so should teach british history. Good, old-fashioned british history presented in a concise and coherent manner so that new arrivals will have coherent narrative to adopt and to graft themselves onto.

Says the man who lives in Canada but is obsessed with middle ages eastern European history.

I like the idea that teachers are all a bunch of lentil-eating Guardian reading lefties. I know three teachers and they are all Tories and very forthright in their views as well.

http://www.erichufschmid.net/TFC/img/judea_declares_war_Large.png

Still, I’m glad to have been taught the reform and suffragette stuff, and when I cast my vote these days I think of those brave women getting tortured under the Liberal government.

Does that include Emily Davison assaulting a blameless man whom she thought looked like Lloyd George? Going all Graham, I don’t think New Zealand had similar threats to stagger humanity in order to achieve the vote for middle-class women, so applied universal suffrage a whooping 25 years ahead of us; having granted equal suffrage to all men 14 years previously (after, if I’m not very much mistaken, doing so for Maori men 12 years before *that*).

Naff heil off, Flipside.

I dont know anyone enough to know who flipside is, but it looked like everyone was accusing him of being a neo-Nazi for belittling black history month.

I dont see the point of this post. what’s the story? everyone knows about the BNP’s neo-Nazi sympathies. they are thinly-veiled. the vast majority of people who vote for them say they do so with a heavy heart. and only because they are desperate and scared, immigration is making their lives worse, and the BNP for whatever their faults are not part of the westminster establishment.

Once again, Ed, the likes of ChrisC criticized Black History Month, and ain’t been called neo-Nazis. It should be apparent - to anyone who doesn’t have a reading comprehension problem - that the reason Flipside is being called one is because he *belittles* black history (note the lack of capitalization) and endorses Nazi and antisemitic tropes.

Liberty,if it means anything,is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear. Now shut ya mouth Brett,hmmm.

You’re being allowed to post here unedited. Connect the dots.

what’s the story?

The story is that the BNP have launched a white history month in response to black history month

the vast majority of people who vote for them say they do so with a heavy heart

I’d say the exact opposite. Most people who vote for them are enthusiastic to do so

Ed, flipside didn’t actually criticise Black History Month - although others on this thread have done, without being accused of being neo-Nazis.

However flipside did use the phrase “the Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States”, and “Jewish machinations to gain power over our nation”. Can you see why people might think he’s a neo-Nazi?

Stu, the Spanish inquisition was a tool of the state, not the church, and harmed fewer people in however many hundred years it was in existence than al-Qaida did in one morning.

Next.

(In my days of doing GCSE history, as I have mentioned before, - quite apart from it being the days in which “empathy” seemd to be valued more than knowledge of facts, clearly the demands for appeasement of the bullying lobby of one historically victimised group was dominant - and, no, the school I went to was not remotely RC, or Irish - far from it, on both counts. Hence our history project to issue a press release, in the name of the Provisional IRA, justifying the assassination of Ian Gow MP, just a few months previously)

But, I certainly think funding “black history month” and similar should absolutely not be done by local government.

“Daily Express” Special Political Correspondent.

A strange and unforeseen sequel has emerged from the stories of
German Jew-baiting.

The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
an economic and financial war on Germany.

Hitherto the cry has gone up: “Germany is persecuting the Jews.”
If the present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be:
“The Jews are persecuting Germany.”

All Israel is rising in wrath against the Nazi onslaught on
the Jews. Adolf Hitler, swept into power by an appeal of
elemental patriotism, is making history of a kind he least
expected. Thinking to unite only the German nation to race
consciousness, he has roused the whole Jewish people to
national renascence.

The appearance of the Swastika symbol of a new Germany has
called forth the Lion of Judah, the old battle symbol of
Jewish defiance.

Fourteen million Jews, dispersed throughout the world, have
banded together as one man to declare war on the German
persecutors of their co-religionists. Sectional differences
and antagonisms

[strip-shaped drawing with alternating swastikas and lions]

have been submerged in one common aim - to stand by the
600,000 Jews of Germany who are terrorised by Hitlerite
anti-Semitism and to compel Fascist Germany to end its
campaign of violence and suppression directed against its
Jewish minority.

Oh, do Fuck off , Flipside

“The story is that the BNP have launched a white history month in response to black history month”

No, that was the hook. the story was about Nick Griffin’s eccentric past and links to a pseudo-historian. All very amusing, but like I said, everyone knows this already.

Black history month, as people have pointed out, is funded by the taxpayer and is taught in schools. Some Nordic racist fairy tales read by a handful of shaven headed repressed homosexuals are not a story.

Ray
13 November 2008, 11:09 am

What amazes me is the point made several times that we believe in free speech but only if its what we want to hear.

Whatever happened to the saying and I quote:-
“I may disagree with everything you say but I would fight to the death for your right to say it”. Unquote.

Why is it OK to have a Black History month but not a White History month, a Black Police association but not a white police association.
Why should our children be obliged to learn black history and have their own history erased. Would the same standards be applied in India, the Middle East, or Africa. Of course not. Unfortunately most comments here are just as biased as they say the BNP are.

Spot on the Money , but I’m amazed they let you post this !!

You must remember that John P lives in Canada - A country in which every interesting event of the past thousand years can be covered in one half-hour lesson.

And a country whose entire history can a be taught in less than 10 minutes.

Says the man who lives in Canada but is obsessed with middle ages eastern European history.

I’ve never once asked the gov’t to finance my interest in history.

Only my obsessions.

Several years ago I went to a Black History Month event.

Some the of ‘history’ presented was utter bullshit. Other aspects of it were only half-true or presented in a skewed manner.

A lot of it had an undercurrent of ‘blancophobia’ in that anything bad that ever happened, anywhere, at any time, to any black, was always due, in some way or another, to the evil ways of ‘whitey’.

I left the event with the firm conviction that Gangsta rap was the ‘new watermelon’.

“However flipside did use the phrase “the Jewish tyranny which has enveloped the United States”, and “Jewish machinations to gain power over our nation”. Can you see why people might think he’s a neo-Nazi?”

Sorry I missed that bit. fair enough

Stu, the Spanish inquisition was a tool of the state, not the church

The Roman inquistion (which burnt Giordano Bruno amongst many others) was however very much a tool of the church) but then nobody expects the Roman inquisition,,,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Inquisition

We’re going to be doing Dominican and Jesuit jokes at this rate, Graham.

Although the comparison of their deathtoll over 300 years with that of Al-Qaida in less than that number of minutes still stands.

”BNP appears to be a Nazi controlled subversive organisation dedicated to the overthrow of our constitution. I think it should be banned”.

Unfortunately, our constitution has already been overthrown by our entrance into the EU. Britain has ceased to exist as sovereign nation. If that isn’t a constitutional overthrow, I don’t know what is.

I recall being asked to vote in a referendum about entrance into a trading area. I now find my country which my father died to defend extinguished by totalitarian cliques of liars and deceivers in what used to be our Parliament.

How come you don’t suggest banning New Labour and the rest of those responsible for this?

As it happens, I think Kent was wrong about Hitler being the towering figure of the 2oth Century, and this one.

That accolade belongs jointly to Lenin and to Stalin , to whose ideology of death (60 millions dead according to Solzhenitsin) Hitler’s Nazis were a reaction. (Mao the murderer of 60 millions and Pol Pot the exterminator of one third of his own people belong to the Eastern World).

When it comes to killing people the Nazis were amateurs in comparison to the leftists. It can be said of Nazis that at least they valued their own people if no one else. The leftists on the other hand valued no one -everyone was - and is - expendable.

It’s interesting that there are plenty of people in New Labour and similar who actually still revere bloodthirsty tyrants like Lenin and Stalin.

Why is it OK to have a Black History month but not a White History month

There is no need for a White History Month because there is plenty of it taught in schools already.

a Black Police association but not a white police association </i?

Why should our children be obliged to learn black history and have their own history erased

They are not having their own history erased

Would the same standards be applied in India, the Middle East, or Africa

I have no insight into the education policies of other countries (and I’m guessing neither do you), but it is up to each individual country to determine their own curriculum.

They were not my words,c&p, it was just so you could see where the link was going,Benjamin Freedmans speach is worth a listen,its relevant to the blog,what people make of it is down to them.

Although the comparison of their deathtoll over 300 years with that of Al-Qaida in less than that number of minutes still stands.

Graham is obsessed with Christianity.

I worry for his health.

Unfortunately, our constitution has already been overthrown by our entrance into the EU. Britain has ceased to exist as sovereign nation. If that isn’t a constitutional overthrow, I don’t know what is. I now find my country which my father died to defend extinguished by totalitarian cliques of liars and deceivers in what used to be our Parliament.

You have a point.

You should read up on G. Brown’s recent jaunt to Saudi Arabia. He’s about to sell you out in exchange for some bail-out loans and in doing so makes Guy Fawkes look like a patriot.

If I were you, I’d opt for an economic depression.

David Henshall, surely there remained some form of redemptive power under Lenin and Stalin (or Mao and Pol Pot)? Highly narrowly defined, certainly, but one could still pull oneself up or remain untouched if one declared loyalty to the Party.

No so under Hitlerism. Members of the preferred racial groups could still be condemned if they showed insufficient mettle or fighting spirit, and members of intermediate hated groups could be utilized (e.g. the grandfathers of certain English comedians), but to be a member of a defined racial group meant destruction [1]. Whilst I am aware of those high-ranking officers who had recent Jewish ancestry, there was a war on. Graham could offer a better rationale, but I am sure they would have been eliminated immediately afterwards and replaced by ‘purer’ stock.

[1] See, for instance, Armenian national socialists in 1930s Germany who, just 20 years after the main massacres, felt compelled to portray their ethnic group as the progenitors in Europe of the Aryans.

It’s interesting that there are plenty of people in New Labour and similar who actually still revere bloodthirsty tyrants like Lenin and Stalin.

Don’t worry. Brownie has unleashed a countrywide series of coffee-mornings designed to flush out these people and when we find them we will have Harriet Harman give them a right good talking-too.

When it comes to killing people the Nazis were amateurs in comparison to the leftists

In the sense of the original French meaning of amateur, which translates as “a lover of”. The Nazis were such lovers of killing people that even during a war which their survival depended on winning they devoting so many resources towards it.

Not up here, Graham. It’s being locked in a room with Wendy Alexander, Lindsay Roy and a sock filled with wet sand.

David Henshall, surely there remained some form of redemptive power under Lenin and Stalin (or Mao and Pol Pot)? Highly narrowly defined, certainly, but one could still pull oneself up or remain untouched if one declared loyalty to the Party.

if you want my opinion Stalin (building on Lenin’s own police state) had a much stronger form of totalitarianism than Hitler (or if you like a much more efficient one.) As Orlando Figes has recently pointed out in “The Whisperers” a denouciation sent personally to Stalin from Siberia would most likely result in a knock at the door whilst the Gestapo even in fairly big German cities like Heidelberg were nealry always understaffed and relied more on fear than on having the actual ability to do anything about it. A fair few times in Nazi Germany people actually rioted and forced call-ups/the deportation of Jews to be put off - such an action in Soviet Russia was unthinkable. Some historians (like the much derided by university profs Steven Lee) make a distinction between soft and hard totalitarianism in that Stalin had the resources to enforce a grip of stell whilst Hitler either didn’t or had diverted them to irrational hatred of groups such as the Jews .

Would Germany have won the war if the Nazi’s hadn’t been so obsessed with killing Jews?

If one was about to be gassed, shot or whatever, I don’t think that the fact that one was born into a particular race, or social group like the Kulaks, or were genetically inclined to short sight (Pol Pot killed people wearing spectacles as ‘intellectuals’) would have made much difference to you.

Would Germany have won the war if the Nazi’s hadn’t been so obsessed with killing Jews?

Yes. But they wouldnt have been Nazis then

Graham is obsessed with Christianity.

Just for JP (and maybe Ven):

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X5McSEU48Y8

The Kulaks were not really a “social group” you know - depending on the context a “rich peasant” could be someone who owned a chicken or two - or just someone who lived in a village where Stalin wanted to build a hydro-electric plant.

Or this, Graham

Maybe they could have got away with irrational hatred of Jews had Hitler not slept late.

David, indeed not, but nor does it make a difference if you’re killed by amateur or practising killers.

Dear oh dear Ven. It is one thing to “understand the mentalities of past ages, which so often seem completely alien to our own.” and quite another to then try the sleight of hand that we should not judge them…..

Anyway here’s another bunch of Christians who think differently:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1676.cfm

As I understand it, the Nazis pushed forward the extermination of the Jews at the point when they thought they might lose the war, so as to have accomplished something out of it.

Had they won the war, they might have got rid of the Jews and other racial groups through other means.

For example they had plans to deport all British males of younger age groups, a move which would have finished the English etc as a race - even more effectively than importing huge numbers of aliens into Britain.

David, indeed not, but nor does it make a difference if you’re killed by amateur or practising killers

I don’t agree with that. I’d rather be killed by someone who was really good at killing than suffer the humilliation of being slaughtered by some rookie. It’s like would rather your team lose to Liverpool or Bishop Stortford FC ?

Ah yes sleeping late and not being disturbed even by the most urgent news and asking several people to do the same job (then retrospectively deciding on the one doing it best, despite the wastage) were always a big problem for Adolf.

Make you wonder really if the “thousand year reich” was only meant to last at best until Hitler popped his clogs.

Duncan Money: “Joseph K, no Nazi wankers adding their wreaths to the Cenotaph in the dead of night. The National Front marched in the Remembrance Day parade as they have done every year since about 1967 and placed their wreath on the monument along with the rest of them.”

Duncan, thanks for that. That shocked me. I did a little research, however, and found that they do not march as part of the official Remembrance Parade - that would be a bloody outrage - but crawl along a few hours after the ceremony is finished and hold their own event. From White Nationalist News, Issue 8, 1999:

“The march started at 2.00pm from St. James Park and reached the Cenotaph after about a mile. Hundreds of bystanders applauded the marchers which were led by a colour party of twenty flags. On the approach to the Cenotaph, the march was met by a howling group of aliens and hysterical Communists screaming, but of course never daring to actually approach the march. They were ignored for the Red rabble they are by the NF and the march assembled around the Cenotaph.

The 2pm timing is the giveaway. The official British Legion march past starts shortly after the two-minute silence at 11am on the morning of the ceremony, and the whole event is over by half twelve at the latest. The report continues:

“Terry Blackham, NF National Activities Organiser, commenced the short ceremony and called for a two-minute silence as the flags of the Movement were lowered as a mark of respect to our war dead.”

Completely oblivious to the fact that a good percentage of our war dead died fighting the same ideology that the NF worships. So yeah, wankers.

Fabian, I was not stating my own views.

“But let us postulate this scenario:”

I was addressing the hurdles we would encounter trying to dispel the (rapidly increasing) support for the BNP.

Every community must repudiate it’s own extremists, crooks, and bigots. We always depend on the decent, moderate core to keep these folk marginalised and starved of support. But we have spent so many years in the multi-culti quicksand that we can no longer even derive a consensus on what is acceptable and what is not.

You can not select one demographic group from a mixed population, and tell them that society holds them to a higher level of moral integrity than any other group. It’s like shooting yourself in the foot.

I’m not sure I swallow this idea of the Nazis as being bumbling amateurs, or of staff shortages at Gestapo HQ. rather makes them sound like Haringey social services.

I’d rather be killed by someone who was really good at killing than suffer the humilliation of being slaughtered by some rookie.

You’ll be wanting someone like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blokhin

Ferkin L, any outsider is going to need a refulgent degree in Kreminology to work out the anfractuous discussions on HP.

”Don’t worry. Brownie has unleashed a countrywide series of coffee-mornings designed to flush out these people and when we find them we will have Harriet Harman give them a right good talking-too.”

We know who some of them are already. For example, our ‘equality ‘ commissar Trevor Phillips has a bust of Lenin in his office. Gordon Brown was a straightforward red whilst at university, and shows signs only of adapting his approach rather than his beliefs since then.

Yeah, Graham, he knocked spots off Johann Reichhart. Who’d want to be executed by someone who looked like Wardy?

Graham, I never thought you would link to a site that appears to promote “New World Order” (not in the George HW Bush sense) conspiracy theories, or rants on about illuminati

Subtitle: In nine pertinent playing cards of the “Illuminati New World Order” Game, how did the inventor know — in 1995 — the three events comprising the 9/11 attacks? How did he know also the correct plan in the near future? Why do his cards predict the appearance of Antichrist and the Rapture as the last two events of the Illuminati Plan?

not to mention

Subtitle: We have already shared with you revelations from CNN that Clinton has a Secret Army in place. Now that he has been acquitted, we need to be concerned that a rejuvenated President Clinton will be able to complete the Illuminist Plan to bring in the dictatorial New World Order.

Mind you, they might have a point

We shall examine a specific scenario by which America is totally annihilated as the result of the witchcraft of Bill and Hillary Clinton

I am almost inclined to make, with regard to you, that quote that is usually (and I think wrongly) attributed to the great GK Chesterton, but which in fact serves very well as a reasonably accurate summary of the most important point of his outlook

Not to mention

As we have noted in previous articles, President Clinton is an admirer of Adolf Hitler for his political savvy. We have noted several instances where Clinton copied Hitler’s tactics. In this article, we see yet one more instance where Clinton adopts Hitler’s tactics in his fight against his impeachment.

Well done, graham, well done.

Didn’t Euro ‘98 adopt Hitler’s tactics with the golden ball policy?

Alec, I’m sure Wardy won’t mind if I point out that he looks a bit girlier than the man in that pic

Ah well Illuminati/Trinity whats the difference?

Execution by Wardy would be one thing - being tortured by his music collection quite another.

Not at all, Ven. I’m wearing tinted moisturiser today, to give an even complexion.

I am almost inclined to make, with regard to you, that quote that is usually (and I think wrongly) attributed to the great GK Chesterton

Do you mean this one:

“I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.”

No, I meant “graham is talking bollocks”

(The most shocking aspect of that shot of an actor playing Johann Reichhart, was that it *was* the fallbeil which executed Sophie Scholl.)

I thought it was the sight of a man wearing full evening dress at a time of day when a lounge suit would be far more appropriate.

No, I meant “graham is talking bollocks”

I think what you meant is “another Christian sect than my own is talking bollocks and Graham is helpfully quoting them”.

David Henshall: When it comes to killing people the Nazis were amateurs in comparison to the leftists. It can be said of Nazis that at least they valued their own people if no one else.

David Henshall, your playing down of the Nazis crimes, and your remarks about “leftists“, “the EU“, and “New Labour“ made me curious. I wonder, could you be the same D Henshall who rants on about leftists, the EU and New Labour in the “Your Say” section on the BNP website?

Yup. But I object to the term ‘rant.’ I don’t play down the atrocities of the Nazizs I merely point out that the leftists were worse.

I love this from the Christians at “cutting edge”:

As the Inquisition rolled along, another demonic spirit swept through the Church and the people carrying out the Inquisition. This spirit was a spirit of absolute, diabolical hatred of mankind, accompanied by a corresponding love of torture. If you look closely, you can see some wealthy people sitting on the other side of the plate glass window, looking at this poor man being tortured

Sounds like a Morissey concert.

David H: “Yup. But I object to the term ‘rant.’ I don’t play down the atrocities of the Nazizs I merely point out that the leftists were worse.”

So, as a BNP supporter, do you regard Arthur Kemp - arch Holocaust denier, white supremacist, former murder conspiracy suspect - to be an asset to the party? Doesn’t his presence rather defeat the BNP’s desperate attempts to play down its neo-Nazi leanings?

Kemp’s views are too extreme in my opinion. I don’t necessarily agree with everything other members of the party say. Is there total unanimity in the Tory, New Labour, Lib Dems or UKIP? Hardly.

“I don’t necessarily agree with everything other members of the party say. Is there total unanimity in the Tory, New Labour, Lib Dems or UKIP?”

There may be disagreements on policy, but on the parties’ defining ideology - yeah, pretty much.

Are you claiming that the BNP’s defining ideology - racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, white supremacism, and barely concealed Nazi fetishism - has no appeal to you? You’re just along for the anti-EU stuff, eh?

From your link on the Jewish BNP Councillor:

“According to sources, Richardson does not have much association with the Jewish community but both her sons have been circumcised.”

Who on earth are these “sources”?

It reminds me of when Jews insist that they experience no reduction in sexual pleasure as a result of being circumcised. Well, maybe they don’t. But how can they possibly know? How many women had they been with before they were eight days old?

David Lindsay: “From your link on the Jewish BNP Councillor: ‘According to sources, Richardson does not have much association with the Jewish community but both her sons have been circumcised.’ Who on earth are these sources?”

The BNP’s “Jewish Councillor” herself, believe it or not. A little light Googling found this interview that Patricia Richardson gave when she first stood for the BNP:

“Her wedding to Tom was held in a register office, although, to please the family, they agreed to keep pork off the menu at the reception, and went on to have two sons, who, in accordance with Jewish tradition, were circumcised at birth. Thereafter, however, their Jewish upbringing ceased abruptly.”

As well as talking about her sons and her family, she admits that she has little contact with the Jewish community, does not practice the religion, and “hardly thinks of herself as Jewish”:

“Today, I hardly think of myself as Jewish,” says Patricia. “You could say I am only barely Jewish, through my parentage and through food. I clean my chicken the kosher way, and from time to time I get a craving for gefilte fish or chicken soup, and recently I found a bagel bar in Ilford where they do takeaway cholent. But I never light Friday night candles: I regard all candles as a fire hazard, and we celebrate Easter and Christmas, not Passover or Chanukah.”

i don’t know if it’s already been mentioned, but everybody knows the BNP are full of brainless, pointless rubbish thats why they have never gained more than a few councillors. Banning them and confiscating their assets is most definetly not the answer. If you believe in freedom of speech you have to let even idiots have their point of view freely and be able to demolish it freely

Who on earth are these “sources”?

A woman walking down the street saw a window with dozens of antique watches. This is great, say she to the owner, are you a watch-maker? No, madam, said he, I am a mohel.

Well, why do you have watches in your window?, said she.

It reminds me of when Jews insist that they experience no reduction in sexual pleasure as a result of being circumcised.

W-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-y? What is the possible semantic link?

How would they know, since they are circumcised as infants?

You as well, David. Why does the perfectly reasonable possibility that these “sources” are personal recollections, either of herself or acquaintances, get rejected in favour of discussing Jews having sex?

Is it something to do with being called David?

‘racism’ - The BNP are no more ‘racist’ than the majority of those who fought the Nazis in WW2. I would say that the views of the BNP on race and related matters today are pretty much identical to those of (say) many members of the Attlee and later Labour governments and their supporters. Furthermore, most people in Britain agree with them (See the Sky News Poll on the subject available on their website)

‘anti-semitism.’ - I have no doubt that there are anti-semitic members of the BNP just as there are in other parties including New Labour where anti-semitism masquerades as anti-Israel feeling. However, race hate is condemned by the BNP. Nationalists have a lot to learn from the Jews when it comes to defending racial, religious and cultural identity. The BNP has Jewish members and a Jewish councillor.

‘Xenophobia’ - A people has a right to fear aliens when they arrive in such numbers in their ancestral homelands that they bid fair to supplant them in it. It would be unnatural if they did not fear their arrival in these circumstances and it is utterly unreasonable and inhuman to condemn them for it.

‘white supremacism’- if by this curious phrase is meant the idea that the indigeneous British should be in control of Britain as they and their ancestors always have been, then I am all for it, because if they aren’t, others will be and Britain will be destroyed and become somewhere else. This kind of feeling is a constant in the world. Eg, the Palestinans aren’t too happy that Israeli settlers have taken over their homeland. And the Israelis of course consider Israel to be the land of their ancestors, which is why they are there. Would they be happy if the Palestinians outbred them and became the majority? I do not think so.

If the idea of ‘white supremacy ‘is that the white race has given more to the world than any other in terms of scientific, technogical political and other advance, that can hardly be denied either, although how much is due to the native genius of the whites and how much to the inspiration of Christianity can be debated.

If the idea is that whites will always be supreme, that is false, because power in the world is shifting to China , India and other countries like Brazil.

‘ barely concealed Nazi fetishism’ - If this means a harking back to ancient British history, yes it can be overdone.

There are other aspects of the BNP I approve of: Its green credentials, its oppositon to untramelled capitalism and the unfettered market which is so inhuman in its effects, and its encouragement of the small scale in industry and communities, for example.
-

Green creds, David? The one about growing pear trees in London?

Now, about preoccupations with the sexual habits of Jews…

It is you who seems to be preoccupied, Alec!

The BNP are no more ‘racist’ than the majority of those who fought the Nazis in WW2

I think you missed out the word “for” between “fought” and “the”.

Django @ 13 November 2008, 10:48 am

“Mark Kurlansky and Nicholson Baker”

Who they?

What, if anything, have any 19th century reform Acts got to do with the struggle for the vote?

The first one-adult-one vote election in the UK was in 1950.

It followed just as surely as the establishment of the National Health Service and the independence of India from the election of the first Labour majority Parliament. Winston Churchill’s speech as Leader of the Opposition is on record.

Britain’s period as an emerging democracy was 1919 to 1950.

Er, no, David. It’s you and David who, instead of asking how people could know about the equivalent of which baptismal I was dunked in as a wee bairn, start prattling on about circumcised penes/penises. Are you reading a different thread?

Alan, Baker is a National Bolshevik who blames Churchill for the deportation of the Jews of Hanover and equates Eleanor Roosevelt with Joseph Goebbels. I’m not sure what Kurlansky has done wrong.

The first one-adult-one vote election in the UK was in 1950.

Stupid Question Day, although I am aware of this fact, I’m not of the background. How does it square with the 1918 Representation of the People Act?

David Henshall @ 13 November 2008, 3:15 pm

” our constitution has already been overthrown by our entrance into the EU. Britain has ceased to exist as sovereign nation. ”

At the 2001 and 2005 General Elections, our elected MPs were more numerous than the peers of nepotism for the first and second time.

The 1707 Treaty of Union, the nearest thing the UK has to a Constitution, does not provide for a “Sovereign nation”. The 1919 General Election was the first where the majority of adults had a vote.

Post no more,. David Henshall, lest people compare you unfavourably with Stephen Green.

David Henshall

“the indigeneous British should be in control of Britain as they and their ancestors always have been”

It just isn’t true that the Welsh want to re-conquer England or establish a dictatorship in the UK. You were aware that when the Roman Army lef these shores, the language spoken all over England (and in a sizable chunk of Scotland) was the ancestor of Welsh and that there were no such people as the English, weren’t you?

Whisper it not, the largest British community descended from immigrants are the English…..

The modern day nazis

Gaza City in darkness as Israel halts fuel shipments
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/11/13/gaza.humanitarian/

With crossings closed, food aid runs out for Gaza

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/with-crossings-closed-food-aid-runs-out-for-gaza-1017956.html

Israel blocks humanitarian supplies to Gaza

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/6050842/Israel-blocks-humanitarian-supplies-to-Gaza

What, if anything, have any 19th century reform Acts got to do with the struggle for the vote?

Well they certainly opened up the vote to many more than had it before them and the struggle for one man one vote though not realised in 1832 led directly to the Chartist demands and the reform acts of , 1867 and 1884, which extended voting rights to more previously disfranchised citizens. There was no possibilty of Britian becoming “an emerging democracy” without them!

I did actually quite clearly say that ” It should (for instance) be compulsory that we are taught about the reform acts and how everyone got the vote.” so there is no need to even connect the two unless (like me) you think they are important together.

In a strange way, I like having nazis commenting here. Maybe this site can become like a zoo. Come and see the crazy nazis! Don’t worry, they can’t eat you - they’re safely behind glass!

But then I think it would be a bit depressing seeing a tiger in the zoo if occasionally one of them ate your friend. The internet is so confusing sometimes.

Graham, you and I are not a far apart as I may have assumed. At the ripe old age of 14, I had to choose between Geography and History as exam subject, History lost out.

I tended to assume that the modern world was created in six years between 1945 and 1951 when Clement Attlee was Prime Minister. “And in the seventh year, he had to rest, for he lost a General Election”.

But that was a while ago, and I’ve gradually been developing a longer perspective.

“But I never light Friday night candles: I regard all candles as a fire hazard, and we celebrate Easter and Christmas, not Passover or Chanukah.””

Not a Jew.

At the ripe old age of 14, I had to choose between Geography and History as exam subject, History lost out.

Well that’s the big problem IMHO Alan (not for yourself obviously but for many people.) If you are froced to abandon history at 14 and have any kind of intelligence at all you will go looking for it later and (possibly) find something like the BNP’s “white history month.” I really think we have to make history a compulsory subject post 14.

On the reform acts I would have to suggest that the 1832 one was the most important event in British history for several reasons (but maybe more on that soon.)

HPBNP, The modern day nazis

Surely, this applies to the Palestinians who aligned with teh Nazis during ww2, who exhibit as much antisemitiosm and Jew-hatred as the Nazis, who’s charters call for teh killing of Jews (like Nazis) and who continually bombard Israel like a blitzkreig.

You have the moral inversion like most antisemitic scum.

BTW - note this from the Plestinian Broadcast service http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7719880.stm

Palestinian militants said they regarded it as an “Israeli aggression” and responded by firing dozens of rockets and mortar shells towards Israeli border towns.

No Israelis have been injured, but the Ministry of Defence took the decision to close most of Gaza’s crossings in response.

Note these comments in response:-

The use of the word “BUT” conveys a bias in this paragraph (trust me, I am someone trained in transformational grammar and linguistics).

Had the journalist used the word “AND” instead of “BUT” then the sentence becomes a FACT and NOT and OPINION.

What a giveaway!

HPBNP, The modern day nazis

Surely, this applies to the Palestinians who aligned with teh Nazis during ww2, who exhibit as much antisemitiosm and Jew-hatred as the Nazis, who’s charters call for teh killing of Jews (like Nazis) and who continually bombard Israel like a blitzkreig.

You have the moral inversion like most antisemitic scum.

BTW - note this from the Palestinian Broadcast service (BBC) - link won’t post

Palestinian militants said they regarded it as an “Israeli aggression” and responded by firing dozens of rockets and mortar shells towards Israeli border towns.

No Israelis have been injured, but the Ministry of Defence took the decision to close most of Gaza’s crossings in response.

Note these comments in response:-

The use of the word “BUT” conveys a bias in this paragraph (trust me, I am someone trained in transformational grammar and linguistics).

Had the journalist used the word “AND” instead of “BUT” then the sentence becomes a FACT and NOT and OPINION.

What a giveaway!

Using Orlando Figes and Anna Applebaum’s figures, the death toll from the ‘hard’ totalitarianism of 1917-53 was somewhere in the region of 15-17 million including the two famines. I’ve read somewhere (believe it was the Mao biography)that excluding the famine plots of Mao, the Communist inflicted death toll in China from the uprising of 1930 to 1979 was about 5-6 million. The famine accounting for 30-40 million. Pol Pot was probably responsible for 2 million from 1975-79. The Nazi program of Vernichtung took 11-12 million with the help of auxillaries (such as the Ustasa and the Romanians) in a period of six years.

Extremity and utopias are the source of this charnal house century, not left or right

Yes, to roughly paraphrase a modern French philospher, it is those who promise a utopia, a Heaven on Earth, who go on to create a Hell on Earth as a prelude to their Heaven.
I.E., Utopia will come as soon as all the racially inpure, enemies of the working class, etec are killed off.

Well, Pat, tell me, is there actually a university at Poplar? Are there any decent schools even? Actually, the whole thing looks like a fantasy from the old Way-of-the-World column conducted by Peter Simple in the Daily Telegraph. I think his university was at Lampton-on-Hoke: its SU was chaired by grenade-draped perpetual student Ken Slabb (38) and its library was perpetually occupied by Aztec protesters who had come over here in stone boats. Perhaps you aren’t real, and perhaps I’m not.
Are you REALLY in the BNP? What about Jonathan Bowden - last time I looked he was their Culture Officer AND he was proudly cracking up his pictures in the SAATCH gallery, showing that the BNP can be quite pro-Jewish when it wants ro be…
Anti-semitism’s a brilliant but unworkable concept, so it doesn’t matter whether you meet it in either the “real” or “virtual” worlds. If you’re a member of the Israeli army who wants to shoot a Palestinian on sight, merely for existing, then you’re an anti-semite. HE’s a Semite: YOU’RE probably a Khazar.
What about the Jews who aligned with the Nazis in WWII? have a look at Leni Brener’s “Zionism in the Age of the Dictators” (slightly tatty pdf. at http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres/LBzad.pdf )
Black History Month? No problem, It can probably be got through in a couple of days. Once you’ve absorbed the fact that the famously affirmative “Roots” book was a scissors-and-paste job for which the supposed author paid dearly in the courts, and that MLK stole his doctoral thesis, and that most of the half-witted Lefty councils that named streets after Winnie Mandela had to rethink all that after she presided over the death of one of her young black sidekicks and that Equino’s famous book is ALSO a bit of a hoax, and that Marcus Garvey dressed up as Napoleon III, and that if a white man copied bits out of MG’s books, merely transposing “black” and “white” and left them about, he’d be put in prison. and that Mugabe turned out not to be not at all the sterling gent. that Carrington had cracked him up to be, it all seems a bit boring and pointless. Still oldMrs Seacole was fun, and deserves the odd “Close” and “Avenue”.
E. Michael Jones of “Culture Wars” wrote a book called “Nigger Hell”: his publisher reproached him with tastelessness, and he suggested “Nigger Heck”
I like BidenMyTime’s analytical sixth sense. Beats me why he needed special training to notice that “and” and “but” have different meanings: note, I used “and” in the previous sentence.
How did I end up here? oh I remember, I wanted to get in touch with my old young friend Pat…Pot…Pet…ZZZZZZZZzzzzzz….

Is “old whitey” on crack. He needs to cool down before he explodes.

Over on the Unity antifascist forum Denise Garside of Lancaster Unity rips the BNP’s so called history to shreds. Here’s two samples from a large post:

***The Germanic invaders, the Angles and Saxons, gradually became known as the Anglo-Saxons, and gave their name to what is know modern day England (Angle-land). It was from this time that a legend regarding two dragons, one red representing the Celts and a white one representing the Anglo-Saxons came into being (the red dragon thus becoming the national symbol of Wales).***

There are no records of the Angles and Saxons calling themselves anything other than Angles and Saxons. The Saxons seem to have been quite content to call themselves “English” from early on, and Angles often referred to themselves as “Saxons”.

Now - “Angle-land”. This is not the derivation of “England”. The name is in the genitive plural, meaning “land of the Angles”, that is: Englalond. You could render it literally as “Angles’ Land”, but never Angle-land.

Why our BNP “historian” should regale us with a “legend” of two dragons, one of which represented the Anglo-Saxons, baffles me. In the entire Old English corpus there is no reference to such a legend. Not until Athelstan’s victory at Brunnanburh in 937 can England be said to have become a political entity - and then a tenuous one. Athelstan was Alfred (the Great) of Wessex’s grandson, they being of the House of Cerdic - and the symbol of the House of Cerdic, and thus Wessex, and later England, was the red dragon. This was the standard which flew at Hastings (though King Harold II was not a Cerdicing).

***The Angles were among a number of Nordic Germanic-speaking tribes ***

No! No! No!

The Angles were a West Germanic-speaking tribe. Their neighbours the Danes (and across the water the Swedes and Geats) were North (Nordic) Germanic-speaking. All Germanic peoples who have left traces claim to have originated in Scandinavia. Following southward migration they became differentiated into West- East- and North Germanic speakers. The eastern branch of the language, which included Goth, Vandal and Burgundian, became extinct (Gothic is the only language for which we have vernacular evidence). Some time around the 1st century North Germanic underwent significant sound changes that did not affect the West Germanic branch. It lost the leading “w” sound to many words, for example, which is why we have “Odin” rather than “Wodin”, and certain inflexions (word endings) became simplified - this would later significantly affect the English language and propel it towards its modern form, when Englishman and Dane, using essentially the same words but with different inflected endings, had need to understand one another.

***After invading and settling in England, the Angles set up the kingdoms of the Nord Angeln (North Angles) in what became known as Northumbria, Ost Angeln (East Angles), in what became known as East Anglia, and Mittlere Angelnen (Middle Angles), in what was called Mercia.***

What can one say to this utter nonsense? Does the BNP believe that the Old English gave modern German names to their kingdoms? There is not a shred of evidence of any part of England ever being known as “Nord Angeln”, “Ost Angeln” or the ridiculous “Mittlere Angelnen”.

Our historian also misses on the fact that there was a short-lived kingdom (or more likely alliance of minor kingships) between Mercia and East Anglia called the kingdom of the Middle Angles. Mercia (which is cognate with “march” and “mark”, in the sense of “border”) later came to dominate the Middle Angles. Mercia was quite distinct, and no Mercian ever called himself a “Middle Angle” - he was, quite literally, a “borderer”.

http://unitywebring.com/forum/yabb/YaBB.pl

Cant wait for the Euro elections when we can at least get some conviction, truthful politicians elected that do not represent their pockets over and above the public!

We need to get rid of the corrupt, Marxist criminals that pass themselves off as representatives of the British public.

“VOTE B.M.P.”

As for those that are too stupid to see the wood for the trees, come the new nationalist government you can set yourselves up in Russia and enjoy all it has to offer. I would even put to the fund to send you there, one way of course!:-)

Red History Month is another genious conclusion.American Indians have so much culture and so many tribes and so much supression they need
a month of Recognition .Who Agrees?