Harry’s Place

What is particularly galling about this exhibition, is that it is being hosted by the Students Union of the Poplar City Technology College, and is being subsidised not just by that union, but also by the UCU.

D’you think it’s the “Jews who control America” bit they like best?

What sort of scum…? The fascist Neo-nazi scum of the BNP

Why give the BNP credibility by treating them seriously?

It’s much more improtant to remove the language of race and separateness from the political discourse, thus undermining the arguments of neo-fascists.

*sigh*

Aah, David T now I have followed the link I see your point - she too is scum, though of a different order, you might call her a self-regarding Jew I would be less kind, non the less she clearly has identity issues.

*ta-dah!*

I wonder if they got the idea for the line that ‘Blacks misuse the memory of slavery to justify their new crimes’ from those who say that the Zionists misuse the memory of the holocaust to justify their new crimes.

I wonder

Do you have any details of when this exhibition is being staged. Has the NUS commented? Why isn’t this being opposed? Is there going to be a counter demonstration? This would never have gone unopposed in my day (mid 80’s), I remember traveling from Manchester to North london every Friday to demonstrate against Patrick Harrington of the NF. Perhaps HP regulars should descend on Poplar?

On behalf of the British National Party, I would like to protest formally against the defamation of my party, and of the white race as a whole, by the Jewish communists who run this blog.

You Zionists have always wanted to destroy the White Race, and we see you using the African in order to achieve your aims. You will not silence us, even though you control the media, and slander us with the lie that we are “anti-semitic”. British people are the true Semites - we are the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. You are Khazars and mongrels.

David H

It is going on right now. I understand that NUS has been contacted, but their response is that it is a “freedom of speech” matter.

The real problem is that the UCU is funding this. They have effectively taken the line that there is nothing wrong with the politics behind this exhibition.

An attempt was made by some black students, I understand, to put on an exhibition about apartheid in South Africa and the slave trade: as a response and balance to the BNP’s exhibition. However, at the Union meeting they were shouted down, and accused of “censorship” and of “wanting to rape us all”.

As for you Zionists who claim that we are racists.

I’ll have you know that we have one Jewish councillor.

This exhibition is also curated and narrated by Mr Patience Nkombo, who is a (black) man of Zimbabwean extraction. He has seen, at first hand, the crimes of the Black Power movement against my race, and wants to make amends for it.

If you are calling me racist, you are calling Mr Patience Nkombo racist too.

This feels like some parallel universe - a British trade Union is funding a fascist/racist exhibition. Has anyone talked to the TUC? Searchlight? Labour Party?

Someone should also talk to NUS about their priorities, freedom for Black and Jewish students to study in a safe and unthreatening environment is more important that the BNP’s freedom of speech.

Yes, it is amazing, isn’t it. I can’t quite believe it myself.

Why isn’t this racist provocation being taken seriously?

BNP Spokesman - (if your not a wind up!) you are evil Nazi racist scum, this wouldn’t change if the chief Rabbi was your president and Gandhi your treasurer.

David, I think this is a bit too subtle for most people; it even took me a few minutes, and I’m really clever…

Seriously, though, the point is well-made and challenging, but it could be damaging for HP if people actually start rushing off doing things.

I remember traveling from Manchester to North london every Friday to demonstrate against Patrick Harrington of the NF.

Well well well, Mr Herman. I remember you well from those demonstrations against me, in the 1980s. And now look at the two of us. I am Professor of Ethnic Studies at Poplar City Technology College, my research and writings acclaimed across the world. I am the General Secretary of Solidarity – The Union for British Workers.

You are… what, precisely?

You called me a racist. I reject those charges now, as I did them.

In 1990, I founded Third Way - a phrase that Tony Blair took from me - in order to campaign for harmonious relationships between all communities. Third Way welcomes the vibrant contribution that this variety brings but we are also aware that there can be friction between communities.

We must be honest about these difficulties and work to solve problems together in a spirit of unity.

I do not even recommend complete separation between the races. I just argue that if blacks and Jews are to live in White Lands, they must be subservient to us. There is nothing racist about that. I have been published in The Voice. I participated in fraternal talks with the Nation of Islam and the Pan-Afrikan International Movement. I even worked with Rabbi Mayer Schiller, who also calls for separation between Jew and Gentile.

These people are not racists. They are anti-colonialists, as am I.

Actually, I’m not even a national socialist these days. I’m more of a green.

Perhaps your regular readers are familiar with your apparently regular non-serious postings on Fridays but new readers can waste their time on this, which would be better spent on genuine campaigning against the BNP.

You have just wasted 5 minutes of my time, reading this poorly executed and heavy handed ’spoof’.

I could have spent that time fighting the racist and apartheid state of Israel.

You have to admit, David Herman - Patrick has got you bang to rights there with his tale of dizzying professional success and worldwide acclaim. Astonishing stuff, Feld-weeble - Ozymandias king of kings has nothing on you for either worldly advancement or self-awareness.

OK I’m a gullible fool, but what is the point of this?

What sort of scum taunts Jewish people with their own slaughter and enslavement, in order to make such a demagogic political point?

Where is Mrs. T. when we need her?

I’m just waiting for Benji to pop up and argue that the BNP students of Poplar should be “engaged with, because they have organisational strength”.

Benji?

Are you there?

“Perhaps your regular readers are familiar with your apparently regular non-serious postings on Fridays but new readers can waste their time on this, which would be better spent on genuine campaigning against the BNP.”

Well, you don’t have to waste whatever energy you would have directed at campaigning against this BNP event - there is actually a racist organisation hosting racist events of the sort described that needs to be fought.

“Well, you don’t have to waste whatever energy you would have directed at campaigning against this BNP event - there is actually a racist organisation hosting racist events of the sort described that needs to be fought.”

Might be helpful if you named it.

Poplar City Technology College UCU reaffirms support and funding for the “From Africa to Britain: Slavery and Apartheid” exhibition, for the following reasons:

a) The post above is a mendacious and vile smear and a clear assault on free speech on campus and trade unionism

b) The two ‘White History Month’ activists who organised the event are hard-working UCU members. UCU is an explicitly anti-racist organisation, as clearly stated in our Rules. We only support anti-racist projects.

b) The aforementioned activists are themselves black. It is right to support these dissenters in this brave stand against their benighted community.

d) We are conscious that debate on this important matter is under continuous attack. This smear against us is entirely expected. There are those who play the race card as a smoke screen to divert from a debate the status of native Britons in their own land.

To capitulate to this orchestrated pressure against our support for ‘White History’ month would be a betrayal of all Poplar City UCU stands for. We therefore stand with ‘White History Month’.

I bet Robert Spencer is still mad at me for forcing him to condemn the BNP last week. :D

teacup

folk

It has been brought to my attentshun that somewun has made a spoof post at Harry’s Place allejing that they are members of the BNP and act in an offical capacity for the BNP.

I wish to refute that posting and state that the BNP has never been agaiunst Black or Jewish people. We simply are guided by the facs of history where we find that the white indijinous English people have had all their rights stolen by Blacks, Yids, Paki’s, Spicks, Micks and the like. We only speke the truth.

Perhaps Harry’s Place could do a better job of verifying that people are who they say they are and remove posts which are obviously not from the peeple they say theyu are.

Heil Hilter!

Nick Griffin (Oxford Educated)

The Poplar UCU posting is neither fair nor funny. UCU Congress believes that in these circumstances passivity or neutrality is unacceptable and criticism of non-Britons cannot be construed as racist.

“I am Professor of Ethnic Studies at Poplar City Technology College”

This was the best.

This is an outrageous slur. We would no more host a racist BNP exhibition than we would host a racist speaker from Canada called Suzanne Weiss who claims that Zionists’ “final solution” is a Holocaust against the Palestinians!

Brilliant

I had no idea about any of this, and am deeply deeply regretful. To hear me address the matter in detail and apologise personally, please phone 0900 909 9090.

Dear Mr David T

I note your concern about the BNP exhibition taking place at Poplar City Technology College.

We are confident that our position - based upon the duties placed upon us by sections 43(1) and 43(2) of the 1986 Education (No 2) Act - is correct.

We have a legal duty to enable freedom of speech on campus within the law and that is what we intend to do. Confrontation with views with which they may not agree ia a vital part of the student experience.

Yours sincerely
Geoffrey Sickbag
Warden
Poplar City Technology College
London SE14 6NW

“Why isn’t this racist provocation being taken seriously?”

As antisemitism gets defined-down to meaninglessness by the old left, other “racisms” were sure to follow. Its no wonder that the BNP is now using the “logic” and rhetoric of radical antizionists to make their own case. Once again, Jews are the canary in the coal mine for whatever trendy species of racism happens to be on the prowl. Its so sad because I am convinced that *nothing* can be done about this, except to let history repeat itself once again. It sickens me.

Humour as a response to antisemitism - I heard about it in the history books. Never really thought its where we’d end up today though! (Sorry to be morose about it). Still, with luck, perhaps a real expert on antisemitism from BNP, Respect or UCU can come on here and allay our fears.

Dear Mr David T

We appreciate this is an area which provokes strong feelings. The Students’ Union of Poplar City Technology College has given careful consideration to the holding of the event and decided to go ahead for the following reasons:-

1. We have conducted a full risk assessment of the event, in line with normal procedures.

2. We have seen the handout for the exhibition and understand that very similar events have already occurred in a number of institutions in Canada.

3. The SU has a clear policy supporting the twinning with the BNP University of Stoke-on-Trent and we believe it is important to draw attention to issues around white history and to allow discussion around these.

3. Free speech and tolerance of different views is at the heart of the educational experience.

4. Poplar Technology College Students’ Union consistently condemns all forms of racism.

Thank you for your letter.

Regards, Brian Briskett

Brian Briskett
Chief Executive
Students’ Union, Poplar City Technology College

London
SE14 6NW

Do you do any comedy ?

Does anybody want to buy a DVD?

Dear Mr Briskett,

I’ll take two on Rye with mustard and some Kosher pickle. Four latkes as well.

Best Regards,

OnRye

BTW - I’ve seen similar events have taken place in Iran. How do I make submissions to the cartoon contest?

Sigh! It goes without saying that here in Poplar City UCU we deplore Nick Griffin and the BNP and do not share any of their views whatsoever.

However, the rise of the BNP and the understandable sense of grievance among their supporters, must ultimately be placed at the door of the British Government. We believe that the only path open to us is to uphold the culture and status of native British workers against the sustained assault from some black and other recent settlers who are evidently determined to push them out. We note appalling negligence of their communities, who have never spoken against this cultural genocide.

Once the aggression against native Britons ends, the BNP and their followers, along with everybody else, will rapidly adopt the habits of modern communism.

Humour as a response to antisemitism - I heard about it in the history books. Never really thought its where we’d end up today though! (Sorry to be morose about it). Still, with luck, perhaps a real expert on antisemitism from BNP, Respect or UCU can come on here and allay our fears.

Great Jewish comdians often resorted to self-deprecating humour to be accepted. A quip always seemed to be a statement of superior morals and intelligence when attacked by antisemites verbally/physically. But then why was it made necessary?

Have you ever looked at the status of Jews in the USA as a contrast to their perceived status in the UK?

In the States its Cool to be Jewish and Jewishness is openly expressed and embraced. One day I can see the USA offering asylum to European Jews.

Suzanne Weiss is most definately a nutcase. I had read something about her before.

And since when is Gaza under seige? Why won’t Egypt open its border?

And if the zionists wanted to exterminate Palestinians, then why do they give them medical treatment in Israeli hospitals?

The money and food Palestinians survive on is almost exclusively western in origin, so how can Ms Weiss claim The West aids in Palestinian oppression?

Finally, what does the Arabo/muslim world give to the Palestinians in terms of foreign aid compared to The West?

Thank you to HP for providing publicity for the BNP’s new exhibition, “From Africa to Britain: Slavery and Apartheid”, which, you might have added, was organised entirely by patriotic White Volk sick of labouring, or not, under the yolk of their oppressors in the Communist Labour Muslim Jew Alliance (or COMMUSZOG, as it should Rightly be known)

The shadowy influence of COMMUSZOG ensures that the BNP never gets anywhere in elections. You can sneer, but it’s true. A conspiracy in the British media industry stretching from the Zionist news barons to the Pakistani paper shop owners works hand in hand keeps the Truth from YOU.

Now, thanks to events like this, the Truth is finally emerging.

As well as being Britain’s most Truthful political party, the patriotic BNP are also the country’s leading green campaigners. So I urge you all: Join the fight, and keep our Green Spaces White!

Oh this is a joke! That’s good I guess. But obviously this sort of thing would not surprise me at all. Its not at all far-fetched!

Sometimes it feels good to be got.

Many spoof BNP posts here - but is the one from Mr Harrington for real?

The only real surprise for me here in this fetid BNP propganda exercise is the “”Jews who run America” line in an official BNP leaflet. Isn’t that a little “off-message” given their new pseudo-moderate stance?

Superb

Great post by David T. I got to hand it to him. :-)

Fanku!

Oh, my God, this thread is fucking weird.

(Is that the real Pat Harrington? Just checking, because he has commented here in the past.)

Of course, if you’d written a post like this about brown racists like the Taliban I would have sneered at you.

BNP = bad

Taliban = heroric fighters

I think that’s a tad unfair on Jenbi. His position is more nuanced:

B.N.P. = bad

Taleban = not our problem

Clunk!

Ah, we have the first manifestation of Fake Benjy at 3.06 pm.

I am a driver of the BNP Truth Truck. Basically I drive round the country telling you the truth about why rape and battery are actually examples of racist violence. If you see us, we’ll set you straight.

Yes, like Weiss, the British National Party wants only to tell the truth, even if it is sometimes difficult to hear or distressing to people who would rather divert themselves and us than face up to our society’s real, actual problems. We claim our right to pass critical comment on the impact of immigration, multi-culturalism and alien religions on the indigenous people of our green and pleasant lands. We reject the smear that we intend animosity towards immigrants, their descendants or the followers of non-native religions. We do not consciously intend to encourage the promotion of the encouragement of others to advance any such feelings of animosity. If we thought for a moment that anything we had to say would ‘whip up hatred’ against anyone, we would be most regretful, although there wouldn’t be much we could do. Like we say, it’s just society.

This is why we feel only sympathy and indignation on behalf of our colleagues in the Palestine Twinning, who have clearly fallen foul of exactly the same deliberate misunderstanding.

Unite for criticism of Zionists and all that is alien!

Oh, my God, this thread is fucking weird.

Alec

Maybe you just aren’t smart enough to understand it?

:-)

Aside from his use of vulgar language, I tend to agree with the sentiments expressed by Alec Macpherson.

Alec’s trying to spot which HP regular is posting as which BNP spoof!

I never liked Poplar City - doesn’t even have a cathedral.

The problem is, we have to grovel at the altar of “free speech”. Can we suggest that if you do not want Suzanne Weiss in the UK again from Canada, you should write to the Home Secretary and say so. Write to Direct Communications Unit, 2 Marsham Street, London SW1P 4DF - or via your MP. After all Moshe Feigin was excluded:

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/03/07/likud-no-2-feiglin-banned-from-britain/

Tell Jacqui Smith that Suzanne Weiss incites racial hatred against Jews and tell her what she said at Goldsmiths on Tuesday: that “Zionists” hope that Palestinians will be wiped from the face of the map and that the “Zionists’” final solution is a Holocaust against the Palestinians.

Remind her that more than 50% of the world’s Jews live in Israel and they probably support a Jewish State so that the word “Zionist” and the word “Jew” cannot be not too far apart.

We would do it ourselves, but “free speech” and all that …..

Pip pip

Geoffrey Sickbag
Brian Briskett

But is that the real Pat Harrington?

This reminds of the Blackadder 4 scene when he traps sweet Nurse Mary by saying that Hull is one of Britain’s great universities.

…Poplar hasn’t been a BNP stronghold for decades. Well, not for our BNP anyway..

But is that the real Pat Harrington?

No.

To the Equal Opportunities Co-Ordinator of the Students Union:

One, Weiss has no right to call herself a “Survivor”. She was not born until around 1943 and the only country she lived in before being adopted by a US family at age 9 was France. For her to call herself a “Survivor” is deeply insulting to genuine Survivors. For her to falsely call herself a “Survivor” in order to somehow add credibility to her sick views only compounds the insult.

Two, to say you did not know her views is no excuse. They are there to be seen via the Internet.

“I believe that anyone who has been offended by Weiss’ coming to Poplar to speak and state her opinion should attend the event and state their disagreement.”

No. One, there was no time for it. Two, “no platform for racists” does not mean “no platform for racists except antisemites”.

“I stand for peace, solidarity, and tolerance”

How sick

To bring atters to reality !

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/

http://www.zen26144.zen.co.uk/resources/booted%20and%20suited.pdf

GW

Everyone else was clearly a Spitting Image, but he was a Madame Tussaud’s. I’m confused.

John P says:

“Suzanne Weiss is most definately a nutcase. I had read something about her before.”

I hadn’t before the Goldsmith’s meeting, and am devoutly thankful for that. As for her being a nutcase, well, others who are trained to do so might be better able to judge. That being said, there seems to be some disorder in thought and reasoning, and a certain lack of capability to reality test, doesn’t there?

“And since when is Gaza under seige? Why won’t Egypt open its border?”

The crossings into Gaza are closed whenever Hamas, Al Aqsa or whatever engages in behaviour which endangers Israelis or looks likely to, like smuggling in explosives disguised as European Aid sugar, shelling tankers which would supply oil to their people, and sending in suicide bombers disguised as medical patients, as in the case of Wafa Samir al-Biss, who had been treated for extensive burn injuries at the Soroka Hospital, and wanted to repay the Israeli and Palestinian doctors who took care of her by blowing herself to bits among them. Of course, the western press never explains this.

Hamas is closely related in ideology to the Muslim Brotherhood. Egypt is sensible enough not to want any of them in its country.

“And if the zionists wanted to exterminate Palestinians, then why do they give them medical treatment in Israeli hospitals?”

See above.

“The money and food Palestinians survive on is almost exclusively western in origin, so how can Ms Weiss claim The West aids in Palestinian oppression?”

Again, see above about disordered thought processes and wonky reality testing.

“Finally, what does the Arabo/muslim world give to the Palestinians in terms of foreign aid compared to The West?”

Not sure, but it certainly pays them lots of money if they manage to commit suicide among Jews. I’d call that “conscience money” if I thought that any of them had consciences.

To Holocaust Truth Truck Driver:

Thank you for the reply.

In terms of discussing the twinning campaign, we have weekly open meetings where we discuss where the campaign is going, our aims, next projects, and so on. Here, you are welcome to raise your concern over the practice of the Campaign on campus, or any other issues you may have.

Everyone is welcome to attend these meetings that take place at Poplar. If you would like to receive further information and be included in the Twinning Campaign mailing list, please send your email to the address included on our promotional literature.

Dear David T
Thank you for your letter. We appreciate your views about this event organised by the Students’ Union, and we know that they are shared by others. You will, however, understand that this is a matter for the Students’ Union and that the event is in no way affiliated to the College.

Free speech and tolerance of different views are some of the core tenets of Poplar and other universities in the UK. For that reason the College’s senior management is reluctant to take steps to stop a properly arranged event, unless we conclude that it is our legal obligation to do so. This is something that we will continue to review.

Best Wishes
Sarah Wimpey

I get it now. Subsitute ‘Blacksmiths College’ or something like that for ‘Poplar City Technology College’ and it all becomes clear.

Well, hello Pat, I remember YOU from the old days in the NF! And if the following doesn’t establish your bona fides to some of the people here, I hope it’ll establish mine to you… I even chaired a meeting or two which you addressed…and yes, I remember your walks into your college, a brave solitary figure menaced by a horde of 1000’s of screaming Lefty numskulls, AND the surprise I got, which later changed into agreement, when you took up with Rabbi Schiller. AND with if my memory serves me, Osiris Akabele…
And I remember old Ted Budden opposing the AGM motion that you be given a special thanks for your brave stand, on the grounds that you’d done your duty, and that thanking you would be merely cosmetic. Were you at Joe Pearce’s “going-down” party?
I haven’t got much time this evening, and I’ll perhaps be back, so I’ll just say this to you, and to the other lot reading over your shoulder:
I think it’s like this: whites constitute a small percentage of the world’s population. Their majority status in their own homelands is presently at risk.
Now even a moderately intelligent lefty (are there any?) will have to agree with this as a mathematical proposition: having more blacks in the UK and less whites will place the whites in a minority, and - here’s a demographic proposition, the correctness of which lefties will also have to accept - this may well lead to genocide of the UK’s remaining whites.
It’s EASY to find rabid anti-white propaganda put out by Jews and Negroes, calling for the extermination of the white race., just as it’s easy to find Islamic propaganda calling for the destruction of Christianity. When the UK has become white-free, the proportion of problem-solvers and technological innovators in the world will become smaller. But the blacks and Moslems will still be in their own countries as well as living in ours.
I mentioned Joe - I don’t know if you got along with him and his growing interest in Catholicism - but I DO remember discussing one of Chesterton’s sayings with him, though I don’t know now how he, or you, would now take this: it’s “Conquest of barbarians leads to cooperation with barbarians and then to conquest by barbarians”.

For those who think that there is NO possibility of Jewish power becoming paramount in the USA, and that it’s dastardly and racist even to mention the possiblity, the following URL, which links to an impeccable source, the London Review of Books, may serve as a springboard to further research…

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html

That’s all folks!

Community Diversity organizer and Race relations expert

Indeed.

The posts at 1.26,1.37 and 6.03 are only slightly edited from actual emails received from
Blacksmiths College.

And look at the postcode SE14 6NW. And the names of the Warden and the Chief Exec of the Student Union ………

I am in awe of ‘Patrick Harrington’ and ‘Old Whitey’.

Fighting antisemitism in the parallel universe of this thread is much more fun than in the real world. Can I stay here?

Dear Fellow Fans,

As you know we are playing Millwall in the European White Anger Tour Cup on Tuesday 19th December at Nuremberg Stadium, Germany. Please note that Paulo De Canio will make a special half-time draw for a Nick Griffin personally signed copy of “Holohoax Bollox” so be sure to buy tickets. All proceeds to the Argentine ex-Nazi Old People’s Home.

Gruppenfuhrer Alfie Spig

Deeply silly as the BNP are, does anybody really believe that they stand a hope in cliche of ever getting anywhere near real power, whether they are stood up to or not?

“Now even a moderately intelligent lefty (are there any?) will have to agree with this as a mathematical proposition: having more blacks in the UK and less whites will place the whites in a minority”

Who cares?

“here’s a demographic proposition, the correctness of which lefties will also have to accept - this may well lead to genocide of the UK’s remaining whites.”

Says who? I don’t see the whites killing all the blacks, much as some may wish it. “Demographic proposition” actually means, “something I have made up that has nothing to do with reality”. Black people will never come anywhere near outnumbering whites in the UK, though coffee types will one day outnumber everyone. The horror!

P. Rat - Black people will never come anywhere near outnumbering whites in the UK, though coffee types will one day outnumber everyone. The horror!

Yes.

We so easily forget the ‘content of their character’ bit.

P Rat

It depends on whether you think controlling the odd council, a couple of MEPs and (who knows) perhaps an MP or two constitutes “real power”.

Beyond that, they would need a very favourable wind but nothing is impossible. Sorry to invoke the obvious historical analogy but what were the Nazis polling in the late 1920s?

Personally I think living under a BNP-controlled council would be horrendous.

Come now Truth Trucker, are you saying that only three of the comments on this thread are leaks masquerading as spoofs?

There’s a Yorkie bar in it for you if you spot the others!

Well there certainly seem to be a lot of leftists on here: maybe as a rightist I’m in a minority, it’s hard to tell who anyopne really is here.
But I’ll tell you why I’d rather live under a Right-Wing council than under a Left-Wing one, and that’s the child-care problem.
No need to say ANYTHING about Baby P. You all know what happened: and on whose watch.
The LEFT hates children. Full stop: no argument about it.
While in charge at ISLINGTON Champagne socialist Margaret Hodge (nee Oppenheim: with deputy Jack Straw) was more interested in paying obeisance to the bust of Lenin on her desk than in ensuring that the child-care service was run with anything like MINIMUM efficiency.
Go on, Google the name, (some of you lefties have short and selective memories) and learn what she permitted and why: how certain lines of investigation were blocked off because she held “gay rights” (whatever they are, although I’m sure they’re very unhygienic) to be of importance to her social workers (was a bit of buggery with impunity a perk for the job, I wonder?): how some of the abused and damaged children she shirked responsibility for are STILL suffering (Google Demetrious Panton) how she was rewarded for her cruelty and incompetence when the Labour Party closed ranks round her and made her a government miniister…well that should be enough for anyone who loves justice (NOT a very strong trait over there on the Left).
Well thee’s no need to go on: WHO left the Labour Party over Hodge?
THAT’S WHY I’M GOING TO SUPPORT THE BNP FROM NOW ON.
If this posting is allowed to remain on this hospitable “rainbow” site, why, thankyou, there are still one or two folks whose basic decent instncts haven’t been COMPLETELY eroded by hanging out with antifa and the other thugs.
If it goes, well I’ve saved it, and I shall post it elsewhere, but remember, you had the chance to read it here first.

MSAO(a-Zb)

I’m not saying that at all. I know for sure that those three are genuine. The rest I don’t know about. But 4:24 and 5:51 look like genuine responses from someone involved. Forget the Yorkie bar - we truckers need to watch our figures.

Dear P.Rat: (at 11.25.p.m)

Who cares? Well I do. I may be in a minority of one, but I can’t let your lack of interest in the matter regulate my feelings on it.

Ask a believing Jew if s/he cares about the eventual disappearance of the Jewish race through assimilation.
Well, it’s probably easier if you look in a Jewish newspaper; it’s a well-rehearsed them with them.
I alway WONDERED if you lefties were actually interested in a sort of “soft” genocide of the whites: Prat certainly seems to be!
It already seems to be happening in some parts of the UK: do I HAVE to feel like an exile in my own land?

Truth Trucker, this one’s on me!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Yorkie_bar.JPG

“Ask a believing Jew if s/he cares about the eventual disappearance of the Jewish race through assimilation.
Well, it’s probably easier if you look in a Jewish newspaper; it’s a well-rehearsed them with them.
I alway WONDERED if you lefties were actually interested in a sort of “soft” genocide of the whites: Prat certainly seems to be!
It already seems to be happening in some parts of the UK: do I HAVE to feel like an exile in my own land?”

I’m not a leftie, but as a white person it has never occurred to me that anyone is trying to wipe my ilk out. For reasons known only to yourself, when you see or merely imagine a large group of Asians or blacks or Jews you automatically assume that they are somehow all secretly in collusion with one another. But those thoughts border on madness. The thing is, I’m not racist but I think I understand how you’ve ended up thinking these things. Ultimately it’s down to laziness.

“Beyond that, they would need a very favourable wind but nothing is impossible. Sorry to invoke the obvious historical analogy but what were the Nazis polling in the late 1920s?”

It’s obviously fair to say that such a thing must never be allowed, but I don’t think the far right have ever had anything like real support in Albion. I can’t imagine them ever having any proper support. British people are very silly sometimes, but I don’t think there is any evidence that they’ve ever been that silly, is there?

“Personally I think living under a BNP-controlled council would be horrendous.”

I agree. It’d be worse than Galloway!

“The LEFT hates children.”

Total drivel.

“THAT’S WHY I’M GOING TO SUPPORT THE BNP FROM NOW ON.”

Dilemma: Some people who are on the left have let some people down. Solution: I absolutley must give my full support to a political group who tack on concerns about children, health care, public spending etc as a very clumsy afterthought to their total monomania about ethnicity.

Where is the logic in that?

Truth Trucker, this is for you!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e4/Yorkie_bar.JPG

OK, P. Rat, I’ll give you best on that.
The BNP aren’t the answer. I said that in the heat of the moment: sorry.
But PLEASE consider Margaret Hodge’s record, and the fact that the Labour Party DID close ranks around her! And it’s not just SOME PEOPLE ON THE LEFT: it’s the whole boiling lot, with the possible exception of Dianne Abbott and other leftie MPs who’ve bucked their Party’s instructions about education, and who want their children to be educated privately.
Come to think of it, Nick Griffin, in his previous incarnation as NF supremo, was very anti-elitist and statist…

But PLEASE consider Margaret Hodge’s record, and the fact that the Labour Party DID close ranks around her! And it’s not just SOME PEOPLE ON THE LEFT: it’s the whole boiling lot, with the possible exception of Dianne Abbott and other leftie MPs who’ve bucked their Party’s instructions about education, and who want their children to be educated privately.
Come to think of it, Nick Griffin, in his previous incarnation as NF supremo, was very anti-elitist and statist…

Margaret Hodge is about as much use as a vicar, agreed. Many, many things are a total shambles as a result of this current government’s actions and lack of action. But voting for the BNP because Labour and the Tories are rubbish is like burning your house down because you can’t get the damp out.

Nick Griffin may say a lot of things, but he doesn’t exactly conceal his true passion and monomania, does he?

One more for P.Rat. You say to me

For reasons known only to yourself, when you see or merely imagine a large group of Asians or blacks or Jews you automatically assume that they are somehow all secretly in collusion with one another. But those thoughts border on madness. The thing is, I’m not racist but I think I understand how you’ve ended up thinking these things. Ultimately it’s down to laziness.

Well , if the reasons are known only to myself, you can’t really have the insight you claim.
It’s not really as you suppose: I don’t necessarily think that they are in collusion, unless I see them all coming out of a mosque or a synagogue.
But there are certain factors which might bind each of those groups together: one might be a sense of genetic kinship, which may not arise naturally, but which may have been generated artificially.
“Black” is a term of approval when applied to music, culture, history, politicians etc: but I feel I’m not allowed to say “Elgar/ Waugh/ Constable are great White figures…”
If Black poetry differs in kind from White poetry (as “gay” culture is said to differ in kind from “straight” culture) why can’t I say if I don’t like it?
Why can’t I state that it is SO different from the things I believe in that the two things can’t actually occupy the same space simultaneously, in the way that one CAN’T be a Christian and a Satanist at the same time?
If I feel that the one culture gives life and hope and the other death and despair, that the latter dissolves and corrodes the former, why mustn’t I say so?
Why should I be piloried for saying that I would rather white children at school were taught to write simple lyrics in traditional metres rather than that they be invited to make up a rap?
If I feel that my language is being distorted and made largely incomprehensible to me by the tongues and pens of people who speak a perhaps very lively but to me an opaque argot, and who can’t spell, why should I be made to feel brutal by, in some circumstances, appropriating my interviewer’s pencil so that I may be satisfied that a clearly written record may be kept, and in correcting and clarifying my interlocutor’s grammar and vocabulary, so that I may be certain that everything is clearly understood? I say this with some emphasis, as I have had several spells in a hospital where the staff’s extremely poor English made matters at times perilous.
No, I’ve long felt that the more intelligent immigrants will understand me when I say that I dislike some of their ways, and would wish to defend my own: but the people that wouldn’t understand that are our career politicians.
Here I WILL praise Nick Griffin a little: for it does seem, doesn’t it, that it was only due the the BNP’s growing profile that some of our masters had to acknowledge the sense of marginalisation that some of us felt.

When you have time, explain what you meant about “laziness”

But there are certain factors which might bind each of those groups together: one might be a sense of genetic kinship, which may not arise naturally, but which may have been generated artificially.

Run the experiment in your own backyard. You are white, yet millions of white people don’t share your views. You know from experience that loads of white people think loads of different things. Now apply the same logic to the minds of other ethnic groups.

“Black” is a term of approval when applied to music, culture, history, politicians etc: but I feel I’m not allowed to say “Elgar/ Waugh/ Constable are great White figures…”
If Black poetry differs in kind from White poetry (as “gay” culture is said to differ in kind from “straight” culture) why can’t I say if I don’t like it?

It’s a question of language, clearly. You wouldn’t naturally say “Waugh was a great white writer” unless you had something to contrast “white” with. I don’t know who’s told you that you can’t say that you don’t like black poetry and music etc, but it seems a silly thing to say when I doubt you’ve read or listened to all the “black” art that exists.

If I feel that the one culture gives life and hope and the other death and despair, that the latter dissolves and corrodes the former, why mustn’t I say so?

You can say so. You’re basically saying it now.

Why should I be piloried for saying that I would rather white children at school were taught to write simple lyrics in traditional metres rather than that they be invited to make up a rap?

Why should black people be pilloried for being black?

I say this with some emphasis, as I have had several spells in a hospital where the staff’s extremely poor English made matters at times perilous.

I’m sad to hear it, but hasn’t that something to do organisation within the NHS rather than “ethnics are taking over”?

Here I WILL praise Nick Griffin a little: for it does seem, doesn’t it, that it was only due the the BNP’s growing profile that some of our masters had to acknowledge the sense of marginalisation that some of us felt.

Praise him all you like. He is anti-human.

When you have time, explain what you meant about “laziness”

Gladly. The BNP’s logic boils down to, to borrow from Orwell, classifying whole sections of humanity as if they were insects. It is mental laziness of the highest order. Most of the stuff you can know about other people can be found out if you look into your own head, perhaps can only be known that way. You must know, surely, after being alive all this time, that your mind is a maze of contradictions and falsehoods and deceptions and mistakes. You have to be able to apply that to all other human beings. It cannot possibly be the case that all people who are, for instance, black, can be classified as the same thing. Other wise it means that all white people can be classified as the same thing. But you surely know from your own experience in this strange life, that you are an individual; that you haven’t met another white person who thinks exactly as you do. It’s logic, and it takes a bit of effort.

are you people also david t pretending?

Oh my God, this thread is fucking weird.

Weiss, are you Suzanne Weiss?

Yes, P.Rat, I can say it now, but in the university I work in and in the one I previously worked in I had to keep quiet: a matter of survival, not just economic but sometimes physical!
And I was surprised by the number of people I met who seemed constrained to act in the same way, but who would unburden themselves in the boozer - even before having anything to drink!
I see you are, philosophically, a nominalist.

Afraid I didn’t quite understand a coupole of your previous comments.

I copy this from your 11.25 post:

“I don’t see the whites killing all the blacks, much as some may wish it.”
I’m not sure how that connects with anything I said.

And this is from you at 12.16,
“Why should black people be pilloried for being black?”

- again, I think there’s something missing. You seem to claim expertise in detecting what’s in my mind, but this is taking your right to apply a certain amount of interpretation to the words of others a tad too far.

“Why should black people be pilloried for being black?”

What ever did I say to earn that? All I meant was, that black cultural expressions are automatically regarded by many whites as being more sincere, lively, authentic. etc.etc. and that, in my opinion, was false, and therfore regrettable.

In my previous university, I put up posters to advertise a choral concert I was mounting. These posters had a simple illustration of an English choir on them: I was immediately surrounded by black students fro the jazz and pop music modules scoffing and jeering because I had dared to publicise music by “dead white men”.

Neither did I say “The ethnics are taking over” although I felt that unnecessary and quite clearly dangerous problems of communication were being caused by their presence in such numbers.

And you will of course understand my rather Griffinish position on the fact that some Islamic health workers refused recently to scrub up properly over concerns about modesty…and that Halal food, in some hospitals, is served to all to avoid a two-layer catering system…

“I don’t see the whites killing all the blacks, much as some may wish it.”
I’m not sure how that connects with anything I said.

Because some people would have that blacks and so forth want to destroy the “white” race, but as there is no sign that the whites want to do that to the blacks, why should the blacks want to do it to the whites?

again, I think there’s something missing. You seem to claim expertise in detecting what’s in my mind, but this is taking your right to apply a certain amount of interpretation to the words of others a tad too far.

You praised Nick Griffin knowing what he stands for. I think it’s a reasonable assumption for me to make.

In my previous university, I put up posters to advertise a choral concert I was mounting. These posters had a simple illustration of an English choir on them: I was immediately surrounded by black students fro the jazz and pop music modules scoffing and jeering because I had dared to publicise music by “dead white men”.

Some people who are black are tw*ts and snobs and idiots. Just like some white people. Your anecdote doesn’t point to some kind of ethnic conspiracy against “white” culture.

And you will of course understand my rather Griffinish position on the fact that some Islamic health workers refused recently to scrub up properly over concerns about modesty…and that Halal food, in some hospitals, is served to all to avoid a two-layer catering system…

People using their religion as way to be a pain in the arse can be dealt with by applying Popper’s piecemeal approach to society’s problems. Nick Griffin and his ilk want to hit the human with a hammer, though it is not in the slightest bit clear how this would resolve anything at all.

MSAO(a-Zb)

Thanks!

I suppose it is a bit orf having a go at me old Alma Mater down New Cross way especially when you have this sort of stunt going on at Oggsford University:

http://jta.org/news/article/2008/11/14/1000980/oxford-checking-into-jewish-girl-party

Oxford University is investigating after students allegedly held a party at which they were told to arrive dressed as Orthodox Jews carrying bags of money.

Here’s a more detailed link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/nov/14/oxford-students-bring-a-jew-party

“OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES.” –Menachem Begin (Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)

I wonder if they were the same students who thought it was OK to invite David Irving and Nick Griffin to speak at the Oxford Union Society?

http://www.totallyjewish.com/news/special_reports/?content_id=7659

“Flipside” - That quote is completely fabricated and you are antisemtic scum

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNRSZ-Ga-w

“OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES.” –Menachem Begin (Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)

Even if true, these words no more represent the beliefs of the Jewish people as a whole than Nick Griffin’s rubbish reflects the thoughts of white Britain. Nice try at trying tarnish a whole ethnic group with one clumsy brush, though.

Superb piece of investigation - in the great journalistic tradition of the site I’ve linked my ID to. You should be proud!

Flipside

How nice of Mummy to let you play on her computer. Nearly time for bed though!

P.Rat, I haven’t the slightest inkling as to what “Popper’s piecemeal approach” is, nor have I any idea how it will prevent another 9/11 or 7/7.
One of my sons has been relieved of his money and phone 4 times in South London, each time by a black man: the last transaction took place at knife-point in broad daylight about 3 weeks ago.
While out with the lad, both his mother and I have been threatened by black people, I with having my face laid open, she with being raped.
It would possibly be more in accordance with the well-known principles that you appear to enunciate if the majority of the perps had been white. But there it is. I propose no cure, I merely record the facts.

While by myself I have been subjected to vicious abuse of a verbal nature as well as by threats of violence, always by black men or youths.

A week ago I was struck and abused by a black man for standing my ground when he attempted to push in front of me to get into a train.

Several friends of mine have been attacked and robbed by black men, none by members of the white majority.

I’m afraid that no amount of “diversity awareneness training” forced on me by the two universities I have been associated with has done anything to reverse my unfavourable impression of what may be a minority, but surely a very sizeable one, of black people.

I offer them no hostility: the only time that I resisted an attack with aggression equal to that deployed against me, when two black men tried to haul me by main force out of a telephone kiosk which they wanted to use before I’d finished my call, the investigating police officer suggested that I had “annoyed and insulted” the pair by “showing them insufficient respect” going on to suggest I apologise to the thugs.

Poor man, I expect he was feeling frightened too.

So what’s going on? Is it just all part of life’s rich tapestry, spread out for us all to enjoy? Tapestry or not, there seems to be a pattern.

My nephew was asked to prepare a presentation on Islam for his school assembly. Please would he show it in a positive light? He politely refused to participate. “Explain this to the Head” - “Well, I can’t show it in a positive light: my father is an Egyptian Moslem, he hates the fact that I’m a Christian, I have first-hand knowledge of the system which you don’t, and the religious difference makes my mother’s life wretched.”

I have offered to take my brother-in-law down the boozer to help him integrate, with a couple of pints of lager and some pork scratchings: no dice. And he wouldn’t go to Evensong with me either.

Yes, lots of white folk see no problem, or that is, as far as you know, they SAY they don’t.

An example: I remember some of our “diversity training” days, when you had to stand up and explain proudly about how you’d used your knowledge of minority peoples and their cultures to open up a new learning experience for them. This generally involved finding them a book on the Notting Hill Carnival, or showing them to the Black Studies shelves: what WOULD have been a new experience for them, a CD of music by William Byrd or a book of Robert Frost’s poetry wasn’t recommended.

Or you might be required to explain how your knowledge of the relevant legislation, imparted at the previous Diversity Day, and your course on Sensitivity Training had enabled you to defuse a racial incident on campus: my point, that you shouldn’t HAVE to, in the sense
a) that staff members aren’t there to maintain security and that
b) such incidents wouldn’t arise if racial minorities were in general MORE interested in integrating (I won’t go the whole hog and say that they shouldn’t have been allowed to become so powerful or to have been let in in the first place) was never permitted full expression, because the university didn’t want to admit that the problem was so big that armed security guards might be the only solution.

I used to feel that the sheer hypocrisy involved in all this would give me a fit: but I achieved catharsis when, me being present in the library workroom, an assistant came in from the front desk in search of the Senior Librarian (who used to sit on the panel at some of these training days, and read people little lessons on all these matters), and she said to the Top Boss, “There’s a student out there who’s refusing to pay a fine” and the Top Boss, making TWO correct but highly illicit assumptions, groaned , “Oh God! She’s sure to be black!”

“Who’d have thought it?” sez I to myself.

So are you sure, P.Rat, that the majority of white folk really see no problem? I don’t say they do, I don’t say they don’t: but you seem to be able to see into the collective mind much further than anyone else I know.

And for Graham: well if you go to London’s Hatton Garden you can see Correctly dressed Orthodox Jews carrying cases of diamonds around.

And for Graham: well if you go to London’s Hatton Garden you can see Correctly dressed Orthodox Jews carrying cases of diamonds around.

And when they go home do they have parties dressed as members of the Oxford Union rugby team?

One of my sons has been relieved of his money and phone 4 times in South London, each time by a black man: the last transaction took place at knife-point in broad daylight about 3 weeks ago.

You have to be rather stupid to have this happen to you four times. I assume the child is rather young? In my 46 years living in South London I have only been robbed once, at 2am by a multi-racial gang (presumably you would have overlooked the white members?) I was recently threatened by a drunken (all white) gang on a tube train but that was in north London where no doubt such things happen more often. I don’t see a great problem with all white people because the majority of those who have caused me problems over the years (despite my Brixtonian origins) have been white though. Others no doubt have different experiences. And you work in a University but could not think of a time when you had introduced a “minority” student to Frost, or Eliot or Conrad? How very very odd!

P.Rat, I haven’t the slightest inkling as to what “Popper’s piecemeal approach” is, nor have I any idea how it will prevent another 9/11 or 7/7.

Karl Popper was an English/Austrian philosopher who encouraged approaching everyday problems in a bit-by-bit, or piecemeal fashion, rather than the Plato/Marx/Hitler/Stalin/Saddam method of smashing human beings to pieces. I find his very simple approach to reality most fulfilling.

So are you sure, P.Rat, that the majority of white folk really see no problem? I don’t say they do, I don’t say they don’t: but you seem to be able to see into the collective mind much further than anyone else I know.

I’m am genuinely sorry to read this catalogue of misfortune that has afflicted you and your family. I want you to know that I mean that sincerely. However, I myself have never been personally fu*ked over by anyone who is black or Asian or Jewish, but I do not doubt for a second that any ethnic group is any less likely to be vile than any other. I have been fu*ked over many, many times by white people. But this hasn’t made me jump to the extreme conclusion that all white people are criminal and evil. It’s that simple. Apply it to your life. Hate and Love individuals. I promise you that life is more fun that way.

“Weiss, are you Suzanne Weiss?”

Um, well I suppose by the logic of this thread, I may be. Its so hard to know.

wow, flipside - nice try. Got a source for the quote?

Well of course, P.Rat I don’t make that assumption.

I hoped you might have understood that. I don’t think, in my few visits to this highly interesting blog. I’ve written anything “dripping with hate”.

But I do feel that I’m in a minority. I didn’t wish for this situation: it was forced on me by the government. Yes Griffin may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but he has forced the government to acknowledge a certain amoutn of unfair treatment.

And for Graham: the comment about Hatton Garden was just meant to be light hearted.

After all, it was a Jewish man who notoriously “blacked-up” a few months ago to the great delight of the lighter newspapers - can’t remember if he was having a go at Mandela or Tutu or Mugabe - and incurred the wrath of the Tory party.

So Jewish folk DO dress up for laughs - you should go to a Purim do. Or a wedding…

As for my son, well I suppose he MUST be silly to go out much. He should stay in more. You are right in suggesting that his youth has something to do with it, though. I wonder why that should be so?
Well I hope you aren’t suggesting that he go out “tooled up” as I think the expression is. He will be trying the Popper approach, now we know its nothing to do with indoor fireworks.
Seriously, though, P.Rat, thanks for the understanding and advice.

And yes, I’ve been threatened by white gangs as well. I wouldn’t try and hide that.

I’m not sure, Graham, that I’d want to introduce anyone to Conrad. Eliot as a critic - yes.
But the English students are more interested in Margaret, Duchess of Newcastle - not that she’s much good, but she was (I think you can guess this one) a woman! I’m afraid I agree with what Pepys said of her.
I tried persevering with her grotesque and slipshod verse, but it was eventually too much for me.
And when I DID want to check up on the text of Frost’s “Tree at the window” ALL of his poetry was inaccessible in the store - not on the curriculum this year!
Oh, and people on one of the Performing Arts things were into a frightful woman called Annie Sprinkler, who wordily treats prostitution as “Performance Art”. She likes dressing up too (see above) but if you are tempted to Google any images make sure you are alone or that the Safe Search is on.

I have enjoyed reading you all: but I shan’t be back. You’re all too much for me.

PS I expect the fake and unpleasant “Jews will rule the world” quote was dreamed up by Eustace Mullins or someone like that. He was a disciple of Ezra Pound - and that’s one of the reasons, Graham, why I’m a bit wary of modernist movements in the arts.

I hoped you might have understood that. I don’t think, in my few visits to this highly interesting blog. I’ve written anything “dripping with hate”.

I wouldn’t go as far to say that you’ve written anything dripping with hate, Blair, but all Nick Griffin ultimately stands for is heaps of burning human corpses.

As for my son, well I suppose he MUST be silly to go out much. He should stay in more.

Nah, he just needs a father intelligent enough to realise that you don’t learn everything you need to live in a city like this at University

PS I expect the fake and unpleasant “Jews will rule the world” quote was dreamed up by Eustace Mullins or someone like that. He was a disciple of Ezra Pound - and that’s one of the reasons, Graham, why I’m a bit wary of modernist movements in the arts.

Tis such a pity! I find a great deal of poetry unreadable, yet nutty old Ezra wrote some stuff that I find delightful. Shame he was what he was, but that’s life: nothing but contradictions.

Blair Peach

You should post more often , youre posts are well crafted and intelligent , so you will attract venom.

well done

,You should post more often , youre [sic] posts are well crafted and intelligent , so you will attract venom.

You’re right. If you attack whole groups of people as if they are all the same thing, other people will protest. Are you also fond of Griffin’s intelligent and well-crafted polemics against millions of other human beings?

Eh. When somebody on here attacks the world of Pirandello and Tzara (rather than the world of Foucault and Derrida) I can’t help thinking that we have corresponded before and that person whilst perhaps not actually being WJ Phillips may well have been someone often mistaken for the old chap…

I wouldn’t go as far to say that you’ve written anything dripping with hate, Blair

well of course calling yourself “Blair Peach” to begin with was probably meant to be provocative to lefties of a certain age.

Our friend is nostalgic for a time when the Special Patrol Group could get away with murder.

Well I live in London. I can honestly say that I have only ever been attacked or felt physically threatened by white males. And I do live and work in a some pretty rough neighbourhoods.

Just to redress the balance. But then possibly I pass for foreign on a dark night…

I prefer to stick with statistics on this. Better than personal anecdote. It’s pretty clear that kids from an African-Caribbean background are far more involved in street crime than other ethnic groups.

But I have a feeling if you went to Liverpool or Glasgow you’d find kids with ginger hair from an Irish background were disproportionately involved in street crime and violence - if we’re going to get genetic about it. Certainly the violence and crime on these God-awful estates around Glasgow, Cardiff, Newcastle and Liverpool is horrendous, in many ways worse than in London (my perception is you get more focussed persecution of weak individuals on those estates than in London) , and there are very few kids with dark skin tones on those estates.

What’s common to these white estates and African-Caribbean areas of London is (a) welfare dependency and (b) single parent (i.e. mum only) families. A coincidence? I think not.

Graham’s right of course to point out the provocative nature of the nomenclature. Blair Peach was a New Zealand SWP (or IS) protester clubbed to death by the Police (the establishment version was “weak skull” - that was in the days when all protesters were legally obliged to turn up with robust craniums). I think “Blair Peach” is our old National Socialist friend who’s gone under various names. Hey BP - you know we can do vocab analysis on you now!

What’s common to these white estates and African-Caribbean areas of London is (a) welfare dependency and (b) single parent (i.e. mum only) families. A coincidence? I think not.

Trouble with that theory is that street crime these days is usually committed by gangs operating outside their own area. My barber (Vietnamese by origin and speaking very few words of English) was recently beaten shitless and hospitalised for a fortnight for his takings. This is a rough and tough area but as the Polish barber who owned, had formerly run, and returned to help out with the shop while the Vietnamese chap recovered, a centrally-placed barber KNEW most of the local villains and had dones so since they were very small children.

Last week the police arrested several kids from a much more wealthy area three miles away….

P.rat

‘You’re right. If you attack whole groups of people as if they are all the same thing, other people will protest. Are you also fond of Griffin’s intelligent and well-crafted polemics against millions of other human beings?’

To answer your question , No I dont subscribe to Griffins ‘polemics’ , as you describe them ,although you are free to make that assumption if you wish .

I dont believe all the members of any Belief system or Nationality or Race are should all be treated as a Homogenous Mass either. They are human beings first and foremost , as are members of the BNP , or dont you agree ?

<i?I dont believe all the members of any Belief system or Nationality or Race are should all be treated as a Homogenous Mass either. They are human beings first and foremost , as are members of the BNP , or dont you agree ?

The BNP’s ideas, Islam, Christianity, socialism, Neoplatonism etc are things that only exist in human minds. Skin colour, age, gender, etc are things that can be said to actually exist. Tearing ideas apart is essential and harmless as long as that’s as far as it goes; tearing human beings apart is pointless and terrible. Indeed, everyone who is in or who supports the BNP is a human being, but, then, anyone who supports the BNP is saying something about how they feel about other human beings. If I see a black person in the street, logically I cannot know anything about that person’s beliefs or ideas without actually asking them. However, if someone says “I support the BNP” or “I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ”, I feel am entitled to make a number of logical deductions about that person’s beliefs and feelings towards the world.

In short, you can know things of people who you have experience of, but you cannot honestly know anything about somebody you haven’t experienced. This is what the BNP and their ilk are encouraging us do: to decide on the fabric of a stranger’s mind by the colour of the skin, ethnicity, etc. It’s as illogical as it is inhuman.

“field” sounds like he wants to break in the front door and beat everyone up!

P.rat

”Tearing ideas apart is essential and harmless as long as that’s as far as it goes; tearing human beings apart is pointless and terrible”

I agree with your statement but what relevance has this to the question I asked ? This wasnt what I asked you about ?

”I feel am entitled to make a number of logical deductions about that person’s beliefs and feelings towards the world. ”

Sorry to be pedantic but deductions are assumptions based on information, not actual facts , and may be wrong.

”In short, you can know things of people who you have experience of, but you cannot honestly know anything about somebody you haven’t experienced. ”

So how do you know what An individual BNP supporter whom youve never met thinks ? , or shall we tar every BNP supporter with the same brush ? (thinks …mmm that reminds me of something )

Because that would be illogical and inhuman.

I agree with your statement but what relevance has this to the question I asked ? This wasnt what I asked you about ?

You asked me if I agreed that BNP members are human beings. I agree. I can also talk to a BNP member and find out very quickly how they feel about ethnic minorities and the things they would like to do to those ethnic minorities..

Sorry to be pedantic but deductions are assumptions based on information, not actual facts , and may be wrong.

If I said I liked the Beatles, the Rolling Stones & the Kinks, you would deduce that I liked 60s pop music. If someone says they support the BNP, I would deduce that they have a problem with people from different ethnic groups. Or have the BNP not spelled out their message clearly enough for you?

So how do you know what An individual BNP supporter whom youve never met thinks ? , or shall we tar every BNP supporter with the same brush ? (thinks …mmm that reminds me of something )

Once again, I would deduce that a load of people coming out of a mosque believe in a god called Allah and follow the teachings of a book called the Koran. I would deduce that someone who supports the Tory party is sympathetic to the politcal goals and ideals of the Tory party. Likewise, if someone is in or merely supports the BNP, I can deduce that that person has a problem with ethnic minorities. Or are you counter-claiming that all that stuff that the BNP have been banging on about all this time about race is in fact misleading and they don’t have any problem whatsoever with black people, Pakistanis, Jews, etc?

Because that would be illogical and inhuman.

I don’t think it’s illogical or inhuman for me to infer that someone who supports a racist group is at least a little racist themselves. However, it would be illogical and inhuman of me to demand that people who merely support the BNP should be tortured, shot, locked-up, deported or destroyed. If members of the BNP want to indulge in criminal acts against ethnic minorities, then they can be dealt with as criminals. However, if all they want to do is try to sell their views to the world, I will point out that their ideas completely lack logic or truth and that they are monomaniacs.

Wow , lets go round the houses .

If we dont address the issues the BNP keep raising , and keep on playing the same old race card every time someone suggests discussing Immigration / Asylum seekers ,etc how are we ever going to get forward as a society?

I am not a BNP member or Supporter , nor do I vote for them , however i do think they ask some questions which are uncomfortable reading for some ,and which never seem to be discussed fully in the National media. (more below)

I dont agree with any repatriation , and I happen to believe if you were born here youre entitled to citizenship here , but I fully support any BNP demands for Referendums on the EU and FPTP, plus I think Immigration should be debated in a wider context , and like other countries we should attract only skilled people or people that can bring positive benefits to this country , not benefit positively from this country for no reason. We shouldnt be putting up asylum seekers of any skin colour or gender in £1.2 million houses should we ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076885/Pictured-Inside-luxury-1-2m-council-house–complete-50-inch-plasma-TV.html

What I dont do , is Assume , or Deduce that the BNP are One dimensional ,and have nothing interesting to say and I certainly dont treat all BNP supporters as being of One mind , just as I dont think all Muslims want a Global Caliphate , some do , many dont .

I’m interested to know ,did you ever talk to an actual BNP supporter ?

If so what did you ask them about ?

Did you actually ask them about ALL their policies , and if so what are your views on their EU policy ?

What about their policy of making violent criminals serve ther full sentence ? Whats your take on that ?

( 91% of people polled agreed )

What about their Policy of allowing fewer Asylum seekers , what dya think ?

(74% of people polled agreed)

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/196

Its not all about Monomania

?

my post has disappeared into the ether ….

I dont agree with any repatriation , and I happen to believe if you were born here youre entitled to citizenship here , but I fully support any BNP demands for Referendums on the EU and FPTP, plus I think Immigration should be debated in a wider context , and like other countries we should attract only skilled people or people that can bring positive benefits to this country , not benefit positively from this country for no reason. We shouldnt be putting up asylum seekers ofany skin colour or gender in £1.2 million houses should we ?

I heartily agree with all of that. However, when the BNP’s very own leader is videoed claming that Stephen Lawerence was a drug-dealer, and has spent his life supporting racist organisations, I can deduce that the party’s leadership, at the very least, is racist.

What I dont do , is Assume , or Deduce that the BNP are One dimensional ,and have nothing interesting to say and I certainly dont treat all BNP supporters as being of One mind , just as I dont think all Muslims want a Global Caliphate , some do , many dont .

Nutty Muslims represent an extreme minority within Islam. The BNP are an extreme minority within the British political scene. I really don’t know where you have got your information from regarding the BNP’s membership and interests, but obviously I have got mine from another source.

I’m interested to know ,did you ever talk to an actual BNP supporter ? If so what did you ask them about ?

I have spoken with BNP organisers and canvassers on numerous occasions, and, being a cunning bastard, I have always managed to make them think that I am on their side, have let them relax, and then all the bile comes out. The cannot stand the sight of Pakistanis and black people walking around on ‘their’ soil.

Did you actually ask them about ALL their policies , and if so what are your views on their EU policy ?
What about their policy of making violent criminals serve ther full sentence ? Whats your take on that ?

I am ambivalent about Europe and believe that criminals should be treated a lot more harshly than they are. However, if the BNP pledged to give every white person a million pounds on election, I still would never contemplate supporting for a second an organisation that is infatuated with ethnicity. Everything they have to say about crime, the EU, health care etc has been blatantly tacked on to mask their monomania. They may be a lot more circumspect these days, but they are proud of their spiteful ideas regarding whole sections of the human race. How can you not see this?

P.Rat

Aah , now we’re getting there . No more deductions at last.

As I made plain earlier I am not a BNP supporter , nor do they get my vote .

I think ive already made my views clear on Humanity and we are probably not so far apart on that ,however I think the BNP do us all a service shining a big light on many of the issues they do talk about , and I find that anytime we do have a reliable poll (samples abound if you want a link) about Criminality , Immigration etc its only the BNP who run with it .

I happen to know three BNP members reasonably well, and I can only speak of my experience with them , and they personally dont want extreme behaviour of any kind (Ive known them for over twenty years) , but the one thing they ALL agree on is the need for national open discussion of Immigration / Criminality / EU/ Political correctness .

None of them talked of smashing human beings ? So whilst I understand what you say of SOME BNP members , I cant see how that everyone in the BNP is of the same mind ?

After all you may have noticed that not ALL Labour Mp’s voted with the government on Top up fees for example .

Now because we hear on the radio that the government won the debate on Top up fees, is it fair for us to assume from this that ALL Labour MP’s wanted Top up fees ? I cant see it can you ?

Now because we hear on the radio that the government won the debate on Top up fees, is it fair for us to assume from this that ALL Labour MP’s wanted Top up fees ? I cant see it can you ?

Top-up fees, welfare, divisions between the Tories and Labour, the EU, these are all big issues, but they are all almost irrelevant disputes stood next to wanting to get rid of all the blacks etc. Either you think that the BNP aren’t as bad as they are painted to be, as you do, or you percieve them to be vile, as I do. How can anyone who supports the BNP and be aware of what Nick Griffin (the leader for goodness sake!) has said about ethnic minorities in the past not be a little bit racist? I mean would you vote for a party who had an absolutely water-tight plan for saving the economy but whose leader had said in the past that all white people are evil and second class?

P.rat

OK. One Question , because we’re going round in circles .

Back to the original topic.

Where is the proof that ALL BNP voters are racist ?

for my previous post read ;

P.rat

OK. One Question , because we’re going round in circles .

Back to the original topic.

Where is the proof that ALL BNP voters / supporters are racist ?

Where is the proof that ALL BNP voters / supporters are racist ?

I have no definite proof that all BNP voters/supporters are racist. However, I do have evidence that the BNP’s leadership and many of the people involved with the party have at times said things that are not very far away from the mutterings of Hitler. Now, the average BNP supporter knows nothing of these terrible things or they do. If they don’t, then they are a bit stupid and naive; if they do then they wouldn’t appear to mind being lead by people who are racist. We will keep going around in circles, as you say, until you concede that Nick Griffin is a very, very racist man and that this is public knowledge.

Of course the question is rhetorical , there can be no absolute proof of that can there ? Because it isnt so.

The question wasnt meant to obfuscate the issues ,my point is not that I support the BNP , or that the BNP have great policies and will be elected ,( I think they do have some good policies which the public seem to like ( see earlier links), and Politicians would do well to take on board , but I also disagree with some of their other policies , as I stated in earlier post . )

No , The problem lies with stifling debate about the issues they campaign about. We should have an open honest debate about the issues raised without being called ‘Racist’.

Because the minute anyone seems to mention Immigration or similar on a blog etc ,immediately they seem to be shouted down or labelled or whatever , and this is not conducive to the wider discussion.

Many of the people I regularly talk to in West Yorkshire , are first and second generation Pakistani muslims , and a huge majority of the ones I speak to believe that we have too many Immigrants here already , and we are too soft on Criminals . many of them dislike the idea of the E.U , Go figure !

Whilst people stick their head in the sand about these core issues , The BNP will receive support , not because of what their leaders think , but because these are the issues that matter to them .

The gentleman whos post we originally discussed , only put forward his experiences as he experienced them , I noticed he did so in a polite and intelligent way.

I commented because I thought his post was well put and interesting and not because of anything to do with the BNP . Youre as welcome to dislike what he said as I am to like it , thats the free society we live in.

If we want an equal society , which I certainly do , then we need to listen to all people of any colour , and that means Black, White , Yellow whatever …but we need to be honest about who we are and what we want , not just legislate peoples opinions out of the way.

Some people I speak with are rightly worried about the future direction of this country for themselves and their families, and many feel the current system doesnt address their needs or listen to their views . They are however looking for Some person or Party that does speak for them , which is what brought us to this point.

BTW

Ive enjoyed the discussion very much , and I’m sure we agree on many things , and on the rest we’ll have to agree to disagree .

All the best to Ya.