Harry’s Place

Yes it is disgusting. Some of it is also gibberish “and those we regard as closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the European race also resident in Britain.” What does that mean? Is assimilable a word?

BTW I once heard Nick Griffin asked about this on the radio and he said “if there are organisations such as the Black Police association then it is fair to have a party just for whites”.
Will you now attack the Black Police assocation. Which :-
“The National Black Police Association seeks to improve the working environment of Black staff ” seems racist to me.

In the US, making membership requirements racist is illegal.

However despite the fact that the KKK is required to allow membership to black people, that doesn’t seem to be a problem for them. There aren’t black people lining up around the block to join.

It’s also fantastically stupid. I would like to see the BNP’s leadership volunteer for DNA testing to prove that they are pure “Norse” / “Saxon” / whatever.

David T

Are All BNP Members Racists?…..Yes.

This strikes me as a glaring double standard when held against your recent ‘Anti-Muslim Bigotry’ post- admittedly I only got halfway through that luuvly touchy feely post, before being compelled to feed the dog, but I’m sure I got the gist.

By way of illustration…..

Are All Muslims Kuffarphobes?…..Yes.

I suppose that it is possible, theoretically, that somebody might be raised and remain a Muslim, or convert to Islam being wholly ignorant of its Islamic supremacist strictures, its ‘kuffarphobic’ membership criteria, and the convictions for violent and terrorist crimes of a good number of both its rank and file and senior clerics.

But, come on! The whole point of Islam is that it is a supremacist religious and political movement. That is its unique selling point.

Have any of you ever read the Koran and Hadith? Here you go:

You could do pretty much the same exercise just as effectively in reverse substituting BNP member for Muslim in your Anti-Muslim Bigotry’ post.

I think I’ve told this story before. At the count for the London elections I found myself surrounded by BNP tellers - all old Essex fellers. one recounted how his - I think it was grandaughter - had gone out with “A west Indian boy” because the girls all like “west indian boys”, and had had a child. He was, apparently, raising this child for her (she was, for some rason, unable). The interesting thing was, despite udnerstanding the need to “protect the species”, he felt that his grandchild should be eligible to join the BNP when he grows up, because he would be “culturally british” - he colleagues set him straight on that score. What got me, though, was I bet that this old bloke would probably risk his life and limb to priotect that kid from fash bovver boys. It’s a story fo despair and hope…

Nick,

but anyone can become a Muslim, a faint difference…

I think the problem is just shouting racist at all BNP members may not always help, to the extent that there may be other reasons that folk join the BNP apart from simply racism. You get the hardcore racists and white supremacists, and then you get a hodgepodge of disgruntled types for whom racism may not be a prime motivation. I think there are various push factors that motivate membership of the BNP.

Of course, there may be some who join the BNP for research purposes, digging for dirt, although that’s a dangerous game I guess. I was considering doing something like that in Bradford, to write something about them, but I am not a hammy enough actor.

“Are All BNP Members Racists?” Do Bears shit in the woods?

but anyone can become a Muslim, a faint difference…

I’m not defending the BNP, it is a vile political organisation, and so is Islam. If it’s wrong to tar all Muslims with the same brush - and I think it is, so it is with the BNP. They BNP members might have a benign interpretation of the texts, they might be reformers….etcetera

I mean I think Communism was vile, but I wouldn’t tar all communists with the same brush. That said, I wouldn’t defend or equivocate about their association or membership of the Communist parties.

So it is with Islam, so it is with the BNP.

It’s also fantastically stupid. I would like to see the BNP’s leadership volunteer for DNA testing to prove that they are pure “Norse” / “Saxon” / whatever.

This actually happened on a Channel 4 programme, 100% English; they tested various people including Gary Bushell (who seemed genuinely pleased he’s 8% sub-Saharan African. However, one woman who said that you had to be able to trace your family tree back to Hastings to be classed as English threatening to sue the programme makers for revealing she was half-Gypsy.

P.

“to the extent that there may be other reasons that folk join the BNP apart from simply racism”

The defining feature of the BNP is its racism. There are coutless other political groupings that you could join for the ‘other reasons’. Why shrink from this? People who join the BNP are racists who want their racism to become national policy.

From Times.

“We are pretty sure (we know who leaked it). We had a problem with a very senior former employee who left last year. He was one of the hard-liners I inherited from my predecessor, he didn’t like the direction the party was going in, thought it was too moderate, so he broke away taking the list with him.” Nick Griffiths

‘too moderate’….laugh, I nearly passed the fags round!

If it’s wrong to tar all Muslims with the same brush - and I think it is, so it is with the BNP.

Not exactly, because you are not comparing like with like. A political party scratching for votes tends to more monolithic and party members have a different relationship to the party texts than religious folk do with sacred books. Islam is not a monolithic religion. They are different beasts.

Granted both extreme Islamic and BNP folk can have a rather strained relationship with democracy and liberal values, to put it mildly.

“However, one woman who said that you had to be able to trace your family tree back to Hastings to be classed as English threatening to sue the programme makers for revealing she was half-Gypsy.”

This was fantastically funnyShe wa thunderstuck when she was told that, basically, her DNA profile was typical of a European gypsy. I agree that DNA profiling should be mandatory for BNP members. I wonder if the leadership will take it up.

“I’m going to lose my career because HM Prison Service doesn’t allow it’s staff to belong to the BNP. It looks like I may have to take legal action against my employer to protect my position. I have worked for the Prison Service for 23 years and have always treated EVERYONE the same. NEVER been racist towards black prisoners. I just want my country to remain WHITE and Christian.”

That’s from the North West Nationalist website. Probably the guy is perfectly sincere - he has been scrupulous in how he carried out his professional duties. I’ve heard it said of Ian Paisley that he was a good constiuency MP to his Catholic constituents.

John

I said that some may have other reasons apart from simply racism. Moreover, for some racism may not be a prime motivating factor, although that is more debatable. Difficult to discern, all sorts of psychological factors may be at play too. My central point is that one has too look at all the factors motivating membership or support of the party. Part of that is looking at how racist views are formed themselves.

He might be sincere KBP, and he might be lying through his teeth. How happy would you be to discover that your child’s teacher, for example, belonged to an organisation that wanted all children like yours to be expelled from the country?

“I said that some may have other reasons apart from simply racism. Moreover, for some racism may not be a prime motivating factor, although that is more debatable. ”

I think you are right that they will have other concerns, but wrong to think that racism may not be the predominant one. You might join a football team for all sorts of reasons, but I think it would be strange if a desire to play football wasn’t the derfining one.

As usual someone pops up to have a go at muslims by defining them as a racial group; some or many muslims may have many views that many non muslims on this site may dislike, but if you define people of the same religon as a race you might as well be in the BNP.

John

The analogy with a football team is not a good one, but I take your point.

Oddly, the NBPA says:

“The definition of “Black” does not refer to skin colour … Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)”. ”

http://www.nbpa.co.uk/

Nick Griffins origins are in the Rift Valley, so whats an aboriginal European?

Some white working class have joined the BNP because they feel that none of the other political parties represent them and the racism of the BNP is secondary. The Labour Party maybe the mainstream party that has the best policies for the poor/working class but it no longer is the party of the poor and working class.

What does that mean? Is assimilable a word?

Yes, and, in this context, it’s more sinister than assimilate. And sounds like that which Richard Seymour would use.

“Some white working class have joined the BNP because they feel that none of the other political parties represent them and the racism of the BNP is secondary.”

That isn’t true. The defining feature of the BNP is hostility to non-whites, and that is why they join. If you doubt that, quiz a couple of BNPers about their industrial or fiscal policies and see what you learn (you will have to gloss words like ‘fiscal’, obviously - use pictures if possible).

“And sounds like that which Richard Seymour would use.”

Actually, the SWP is a good comparitor. Another racist party but I would accept that most members are not motivated to join principally by racism. The SWP could abandon its racist agenda and still operate as a distinct political grouping (although it would be even more marginal, bviously).

Dunno John M. There might be loads of discreditable things to discover about my kids’ teachers, but if it didn’t affect the way they treated the kids, I wouldn’t need to know. Social and professional relations contain a good deal of hypocrisy, and our society wouldn’t work without it. We can be pure in deed if not in thought.

(Through clenched teeth) - I’ve come round to Benjamin’s views on the wrongness of publishing the list that may result in people being targets for violence, in the worst case. The sound of fascists squealing in panic went to my head a bit.

Yes, John, whilst the B.N.P. has C-18, the S.W.P. have/had The Squad. Although the joy of violence doesn’t extend as much into the main body of the party.

And, once again, can I ask how bring Muslims into this differs from bringing Israel into any discussion about antisemitism.

If you are asking me Alec, I can’t give you an answer. I think the anti-Muslim stuff on this thread is drivel.

“Oddly, the NBPA says:

“The definition of “Black” does not refer to skin colour … Everyone within policing is eligible to join the NBPA (There is no barrier to membership)”. ””
But the aim is to benefit people who are a specific race - or rather not a specific race. How ca that be right?

“If it’s wrong to tar all Muslims with the same brush - and I think it is, so it is with the BNP. They BNP members might have a benign interpretation of the texts, they might be reformers…”
Good point

As usual someone pops up to have a go at muslims by defining them as a racial group

What tosh, nobody’s argued that here - at least thus far! The Islamic religion is a political movement, it’s teachings are intensely political in effect and intent…and it’s causing much doggy do in the UK and globally…far more so indeed than the marginal BNP, it really is the root cause of much strife and suffering in the World.

I’m arguing that you should hold people to account for their associations and their views - regardless. Not give them a ‘free pass’, and let’s face it, there is a strong tendency to do this, to grant Muslims special privileges, partly out of fear - for example not publishing the very mild ‘Motoons’, partly out of craven political correctness and tacit liberal, racism - the racism of low-expectation that holds different groups to different standars. And yes, most UK Muslims happen to be brown skinned, that is not to conflate Islam with a race.

You can’t grant special privileges - and, come on! The whole point of Islam is special privileges for Muslims…for men - and at the same time try to clamp down on the likes of the BNP without the law of unintended consequences kicking in.

Part of the support for the Leftists, racist, mindlessly amazingly stupid and incompetent BNP, is no doubt because of this ’special privileges’/ double standard business…and the absence of robust, unequivocal policy positions resisting this by the mainstream parties. It’s a reaction, this is the normal political process.

Is the Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago, Illinois, racist?

Yes.

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian… Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain “true to our native land,” the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System written by the Manford Byrd Recognition Committee chaired by Vallmer Jordan in 1981. We believe in the following 12 precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered. They must reflect on the following concepts:

Commitment to God Commitment to the Black Community
Commitment to the Black Family Dedication to the Pursuit of Education
Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence Adherence to the Black Work Ethic
Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassnes”
Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community
Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System
Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.

I don’t know what “folk community” I belong to. But one of the local BNP councillors in my area is the daughter of Romanian Jewish asylum seekers, so obviously the leadership will make exceptions when it is politically expedient.

I imagine most of the people who vote for them have little time for the pseudo-science mumbo-jumbo, they just feel their country is slipping away from them, that crime is going up, the social thread is unwinding, and that immigration, liberalism and de-instrialisation are the causes of their woe. that’s my guess.

Oh sure…but surely one can make some kind of distinction between making a vote (in protest or otherwise) for such a party, and actually taking the steps to actually join it.

And, again, comparing the BNP with the SWP is…very silly

(I have to say: I was surprised at how few members were listed as living in the D bit of their B&D “stronghold” on that list)

““If it’s wrong to tar all Muslims with the same brush - and I think it is, so it is with the BNP. They BNP members might have a benign interpretation of the texts, they might be reformers…”
Good point”

That’s not a good point it is a silly point. A better analogy would be to ask how many people joining Al Qaeda are likely to be liberals who reject the theological aspects of the organisation’s politics but support its other aims.

Joining a politcal party and being born into a religious community are not remotely comparable things.

. I’ve heard it said of Ian Paisley that he was a good constiuency MP to his Catholic constituents.

That indeed is a comment meme. Didn’t mean jot in my eyes however.

The BNP contain more thugs and criminals.

The SWP gets more play in the pages of the London Review of Books.

The use of the term ‘Folk Community’ in the BNP constitution is a clumsy translation of the term Volksgemeinschaft. This term makes all sorts of assumptions about the unity and communal nature of the groups to which the BNP refers. More to the point, the constitution is not only racist, but ideologically grounded in Nazism.

“And, again, comparing the BNP with the SWP is…very silly”

The comparison was made to show how they differed, to demonstrate that not all racist politics or racist politcal organisations are alike. I think it is possible to join the SWP without supporting or, necessarily, being aware of its racist agenda. The same is not true of the BNP.

Why do they want to protect the rights of johnny-come-latelys like saxons and celts? Fucking settler scum. Keep Britain pagan!

i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community;
ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community;
iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community;
iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community;
v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community;
vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community;
vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community;
viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community;
ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community;
x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community

It’s PC multi-culturalism gone mad.

“I imagine most of the people who vote for them have little time for the pseudo-science mumbo-jumbo, they just feel their country is slipping away from them, that crime is going up, the social thread is unwinding, and that immigration, liberalism and de-instrialisation are the causes of their woe. that’s my guess.”

Which makes you wonder why the BNP make such a song and dance about race, really, doesn’t it?

(Through clenched teeth) - I’ve come round to Benjamin’s views on the wrongness of publishing the list that may result in people being targets for violence, in the worst case.

Perhaps having that little bit of fear will teach them what it’s like to have black skin - a trait you cannot hide in any list - in a country where there are violent racist parties, such as the one of which they are members.

P.

Mesq Ive spotted one too - The Dutch Reformed Church! Down with those racists too!

Personally I think non-naturalistic explanations are the real problem. :-)

You would never read about the BNPs mad volkish theories of how society and the world works on the pages of the Guardian.

However, you’d get the SWP’s theories - watered down, echoed, or in their pure undiluted form - in most liberal-left journals.

We’ve seen, in the Delich affair, that those on the far Left cannot now even identity Nazi arguments any more. They mistake them for Left wing ones!

The BNP is more of a threat to the life and limb of cultural minorities. But their theories appear bizarre and unfamiliar to us, because they get no play anywhere outside the zanier parts of the internet.

The SWP, and its ideological ilk, are wholly integrated into left-liberal thought.

“Joining a politcal party and being born into a religious community are not remotely comparable things.”

For some people on here they are, if you project your opinion of the teachings of Islam on to all muslims then you might not be a racist, you might not even be an idiot, but you are not offering a lot of evidence to the contrary.

According to my copy of the OED, ‘Racism’ is ‘the belief that each race or ethnic group possesses specific characteristics, abilities or qualities that distinguish it as inferior or superior to another such group’ and ‘discrimination against or antagonism towards other races or ethnic groups based on such a belief’. According to the second denotation, the BNP, as an organisation, could be termed racist. Crucially though, there is no mention in their ‘constitution’ of any claim as to the relative superiority of a racial construct. Is it fair to smear all BNP members with the term in its narrow sense and hence with all the negative connotations that go with it in today’s soma-pumping meme-friendly post-modern society? Would it be fair to label all members of 1988 HMG as ‘homophobes’ for tolerating Section 28?

Just because the BPA offer a disclaimer does not mean that their very existence, along with the myriad other race-sensitive public and private bodies, avoids giving the impression of ‘otherness’. Were future government sincere in their honourable quest to eliminate racism (a fruitless task IMHO), they could not do better than to discourage the formation of organisations whose membership criteria attract allegiance based solely on melanin content of the skin, of which the ABPO is clearly one; to espouse some whilst castigating others despite all broadly subscribing to the skin colour/racial solidarity theme is to foster prejudice.

I think it’s unfair and dangerous to label all BNP members as ‘racist’ in this catch-all smear fashion.

“I don’t know what “folk community” I belong to. ”

I do - it has sessions at the Royal Oak or Sandy Bells. Everyone welcome, fiddlers and guitarists all.

I agree with David T’s comments on the dangers of the SWP’s racist politics, by the way. Discussiin of the differences between the SWP and the BNP was not meant to suggest that the SWP is any less a racist party or that its racism is less threatening than the BNP’s (although of a different kind).

“Would it be fair to label all members of 1988 HMG as ‘homophobes’ for tolerating Section 28?”

Good grief, why does this take so much explaining? It would be fair to label them all homophobes if they all joined an organisation that was principally dedicated to homophobia. Is that hard to grasp?

Of course this whole business will all be forgotten now it’s been announced that John Sergeant has pulled out of Strictly Come Dancing.

JM:

““Would it be fair to label all members of 1988 HMG as ‘homophobes’ for tolerating Section 28?”

Good grief, why does this take so much explaining? It would be fair to label them all homophobes if they all joined an organisation that was principally dedicated to homophobia. Is that hard to grasp?”

Forgive my ignorance, but yes, it is.

Yours not-at-all having grasped the import of your explanation,

YIT

What, Wardy? Christ!

I think it’s unfair and dangerous to label all BNP members as ‘racist’ in this catch-all smear fashion..

yes, and some of the people who joined the German Nazi party in the early 30s. However….

However, you’d get the SWP’s theories - watered down, echoed, or in their pure undiluted form - in most liberal-left journals.

And in the Labour Party.

(and by no means solely, or even principally, the obviously loony “far left” parts)

And, increasingly, in the Liberal Democrats too.

Having briefly subscribed to the LRB a few years ago (more to…in retrospect…I think to try and understand, more than impress, a girl from North London, I think), I must say that I found large sections of it largely unreadable (because of the idiotic and deluded atheist lefty liberal Weltanschauung therein propagated that shows only an extremely limited an inaccurate understanding of the human condidition) - but, in essence, influenced by the SWP, as such?

Oh, by the preeminent of the great heresies and poisons of the last century: Marxism and Freudianism, for sure. But I would have said to that to attribute the (loathsome) SWP as the cause or even a primary source of the diffusion of such idiocy, ignorance and hatred would be to greatly exaggerate their significance or importance.

Essentially: if I knew someone was a member of the SWP, I would assume that they were a fool and a delusionary, but not a racist (and probably highly intelligent in the way that a lot of very foolish people are). If I knew someone was a member of the BNP, I would assume that they were a racist, and probably vicious and stupid or intellectually sub-normal.

So, point taken that the dangers associated with each of these wannabe totalitarian parties are different.

(And, Oh, yes, I would ban the Black Police Organization or whatever they are called, too, as they are quite evidently a sectarian organziation that seeks to undermine and divide the public service and ethos of the police)

KBP - if your folk community ever does the Gay Gordons I’d conclude it’s not one of the authentic indigenous ones favoured by those whose names now everybody knows

The SWP have no chance anywhere of making electoral gains. They are newspaper sellers and placard makers. Most of the membership today will be gone in 5 years and new temporary recruits will have been made. The SWP leadership are talkers not do-ers.

But racists are more likely to be racists for life and it’s not at all inconceivable that given a not-unlikely economic trajectory that the BNP could poll huge numbers here.

Yes Venichka, there’s nothing worse than that atheist lefty liberal Weltanschauung. Except in my experience the theist lefty liberal Weltanschauung.

David T,

admit it, it is a poor state of affairs when you have to explain, to people engaged in debating topical issues and politics, that the BNP is racist, eh?

it is so obvious, and so sad to see that poor old Benji is forever forced to play the mindless contrarian

I suppose next week, if and when HP had an article on gravity, that Benji would deny that too?

all of this is so straightforward it is depressing that you have to repeat it

Jr, I probably agree with you, actually.

Joining a politcal party and being born into a religious community are not remotely comparable things.

I disagree, I think they are close kin, both can be xenophobic, both have heretics and for similar reasons.

The October revolution happened in Russia in 1917, a lot of folks were subsequently ‘born into’ Communist political dogma. The National Party took over in SA just after the war and the same held true for many Whites vis-a-vis Apartheid.

People born into any a strong political or religious dogma. The same can be said for many folks born into families that hold to strong political dogmas. One can adopt or assimilate a political dogma in pretty much the same way as one adopts a new religion.

Be they religious or political, if the views one subscribes to, knowingly or otherwise are clearly xenephobic, supremacist, authoritarian and just plain nasty, I think it’s perfectly kosher to be called on it, irrespective of whether they happen to be in the guise of religious or political dogma, or an amalgam of both…as is the case with Islam. Contrasting this post and the To treat them so drastically differently in adjacent posts as David did, was to my mind quite striking, and is, I posit, a double standard.

I think the BNPs political views are underpinned by a vulgarian, crass and quite nasty xenophobic dogma, but have no doubt that some BNP supporters are quite normal pleasant folks. I think the Muslim religion fits the exact same criteria - all be it, that in my view Islam poses considerably more of a threat to all, than British White Nationalism.

I am perfectly civil to subscribers of either dogma, and maintain a noble silence of my views in the normal course of life… unless that is either dogma is pushed into my face. But this is a political blog so this is the place and the time to articulate ones views.

“I am perfectly civil to subscribers of either dogma, and maintain a noble silence of my views in the normal course of life”

For “noble” read “prudent”.

I should really proof read…sorry!

For “noble” read “prudent”.

Hah….fair one!

Try clicking on this link. Lifted from Lancaster Unity (With Thanks) it may answer some of the questions raised above.

http://www.zen26144.zen.co.uk/resources/maureenstoweinterview.pdf

For the UAF site

http://lancasteruaf.blogspot.com/

GW

Isn’t it odd that both Benji and the BNP both harp on about FOLK? Plus Benji keeps on defending them here. He also stated above that he once wanted to join them.

Is his far rightist political affiliations the reason why he was kicked out of the Grauniad by Georgina Henry?

The BNP’s ethnic requirements would prevent people of Mediterranean origin from joining, which is odd as the Romans (and their armies, which included some North Africans) were here long before the Angles and the Saxons invaded. What is the “Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community” anyway? Does anyone know the cultural attributes of this strange amalgam?

now it’s been announced that John Sergeant has pulled out of Strictly Come Dancing.

I think that Sergeant has been forced to pull out because of what amounts to light-entertainment nazism.

“Some white working class have joined the BNP because they feel that none of the other political parties represent them and the racism of the BNP is secondary. The Labour Party maybe the mainstream party that has the best policies for the poor/working class but it no longer is the party of the poor and working class.”

I suspect that may be the prime motivation of many who vote for them. And their hostility to the EU, and immigration, will pick up more votes. We are facing a sharp uptick in unemployment. And every job lost, every re-possession, will be a potential vote for the BNP. I can understand that a lot of people feel sorely provoked.

But with regard to their membership: I reckon their preferred target is the guardian reading, chattering classes, clucking about the ignorant racist chavs as they sip their chardonnay, and celebrate the diversity of all the places they don’t have to live in.

“Cornish Folk Commuity”

In the states, “Cornish” is used only in reference to very little chickens. It’s a very giggly word by itself, but even better paired with “Folk Community”. A scene from the “Wizard of Oz” is invoked for me.

I’ve always liked “anti-folk” myself. (Aside from that loser who got dumped by Natalie Portman.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-folk

““Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community”

Could it be those who sing the “Ballad of John Axon” in Welsh ?

GW

“now it’s been announced that John Sergeant has pulled out of Strictly Come Dancing”

When the BNP come to power the format will have changed on English volkish lines and it will be Strictly Morris Dancing.

What is the “Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community” anyway? Does anyone know the cultural attributes of this strange amalgam?

It’s just a vapid, inclusive, feel-good term for a bunch of fucking Anglo race traitors.

“”"Yes, the BNP is legal. I would oppose its criminalisation. Being a racist is not a crime”"”

well, I would have no problem in supporting the criminalisation of a party with such views. I think racism should be a crime. In my country it is a crime and all discrimination is strictly forbidden, including positive discrimination. I don’t see why racism should not be a crime. Of course I know all about the argument of free speech, and about embedded prejudices, but still I think that racism is an attempt against human dignity, even in its most ‘innocuous’ forms.

but I am not a British citizen, so this is just an opinion.

“….the guardian reading, chattering classes, clucking about the ignorant racist chavs as they sip their chardonnay, and celebrate the diversity of all the places they don’t have to live in.”

But in some respects isn’t this the modern Labour party?

(That is slightly tongue in cheek - but only slightly)

2) The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.

Does the BNP approve of unbridled miscegenation among those various distinct Folk Communities?

I think the whole problem started with the “race-mixing” between the Angles and the Saxons.

But in some respects isn’t this the modern Labour party?

Yes, but at least it’s an improvement over the old Labour Party with its virginity tests and union-enforced colour bars.

Does “Norse” include Normans?

KB: “Does “Norse” include Normans?”

Now you’re just trying to confuse them, KB. Judging from the list, there’s enough confusion already. My eyes were drawn to this comment below one member:

“Resigned 17/9/07 (confused re. Party policy on ethnicity).”

However, the confusion must have soon cleared:

“Re-joined 26/11/07″.

The mind boggles… Two months. Time enough to drop a non “Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community” partner, you reckon?

Oh, by the preeminent of the great heresies and poisons of the last century: Marxism and Freudianism, for sure.

…said for the 15th time this month in these very comments boxes. Can there not be a post where only Ven and Ben can repeat their chiches and pet theories against each other. Pro-celebrity (Ben being the pro, I assume) comment box boring, live from Hong Kong and the Southend railway line.

Is the Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago, Illinois, racist?

Yes.

But unlike the BNP does with blacks, it doesn’t exclude white members– in fact, there are some.

funny, how some of those newer posters (John Little, etc) that were so active to attack Jews in other threads are so supportive of the BNP and their problems?

what a coincidence

Attacking jews, supportive of the BNP?

I’ll like a hit on whatever you are smoking, kiddo. Judging by the latest post on modernityblog it’s given you the giggles.

BNP membership clearly discrimates against the Beaker People

“I’m going to lose my career because HM Prison Service doesn’t allow it’s staff to belong to the BNP. It looks like I may have to take legal action against my employer to protect my position. I have worked for the Prison Service for 23 years and have always treated EVERYONE the same. NEVER been racist towards black prisoners. I just want my country to remain WHITE and Christian.”

Benjamin
19 November 2008, 10:42 am

Clearly Benjamin is opposed to the views of the prison officer. Would he be good enough then to explain why Britain should not remain white and Christian?

Allan@Aberdeen

What kind of white? and what kind of Christian?

Shouldn’t it be Protestants only? and exclude those of Irish descent?

HP - how about the current kind of white and the current kind of Christian?

HP - how about the current kind of white and the current kind of Christian?

Polish?

“Yes, but at least it’s an improvement over the old Labour Party with its virginity tests and union-enforced colour bars”

When did the Labour Party have virginty tests? And who for?

ag:

“When did the Labour Party have virginty tests? And who for?”

Me for a start.

Thirty five years ago, when I was young and daft, and about to gain my entitlement to vote for the first time, my parents sent me to the local Labour Party Young Socialists to learn about politics. While I was there, the members held an election for chairman. Everyone else smartly took two steps back, and that is how I became chairman of the Young Socialists, much to my surprise, five minutes after walking though the door.

The main point of being a virgin, is learning lessons you are just never going to forget. And I sure as hell did.

If that’s not a virginity test, I don’t know what the hell is.

Being racist is not a reason for criminalisation.

Operating a Nazi front organisation with the purpose of overthrowing the democratic order is.

There’s plenty of evidence that the BNP was and still is a Nazi front organisation.

People who are real race supremacists cannot be allowed to take part in democratic institutions (or indeed serve in public organisations) because the race supremacy idea directly opposes the democratic idea. The same goes for Islamic totalitarian organisations, and other totalitarian organisations. The same goes for monarchist parties.

Only parties that fully accept the democratic nature of our constitution should be allowed to take part in the democratic process. If the BNP want to rename themselves the British National Propaganda Group and espouse racist ideas, I have no problem with that. Let them - as long as by law they cannot stand for election to parliament or other democratic bodies. But don’t allow them to subvert the democratic process by getting people elected whose purpose it is to destroy democracy.

When did the Labour Party have virginty tests? And who for?

The Labour governments of the 1970s subjected brides emigrating from the Indian sub-continent to “virginity tests” (involving rubber gloves and a female immigration officer) when entering the country, to try to determine if their marriages were genuine.

All that stopped when the 1981 Nationality Act was passed which removed the right of such people to emigrate to the UK entirely. The Act originated as a green paper under those same racist Labour governments.

I am with Nick of SA on this one. What is it that makes the BNP more loathsome than the Moslem Brotherhood? MAB has several members (Mohammed Sawalha. al-Tamini)i whose allegiances to the Brotherhood and the MAB are coincident and hard to disentangle. Is MAB membership prescribed by the state for police and prison officers in the UK?

I think that Nick In S.A. makes a good point.

David T is changing the moral goal posts depending on who is being raked over the coals.

The BNP are simpletons who haven’t the slightest chance of gaining power.

That said, I don’t think their racism is any different or any worse than the ‘kuffarphobia’ which is found even in mainstream Islam.

When will we develope the ability and the courage to hold all peoples, cultures, religions and races to the exact same standards without squinting, squirming and equivocating?

And does David T. realise that such relativism in judgement is part of what is fueling BNP support?

The blatant double standard (see Brett’s posting on violent Black homophobia) is pushing people into the arms of the BNP far more than racist sentiments.

But our lack of courage means the social malaise must always be defined, framed, as merely an outbreak of racism, when, in fact, it goes a lot deeper than that.

But it’s a pandora’s box no one dare open.

re: Allan@Aberdeen; “Would he be good enough then to explain why Britain should not remain white and Christian?”

I’ll tell you why: Britain ISN’T white and Britain ISN’T Christian.

Sure, the lion’s share of the population are one or the other
(though less than 40% of people believe in God including non-Christians), but due to a little thing called “The British Empire”, British people of other colours and belief systems have been living in this country for centuries. There have been Jews here from as long ago as when there were Normans. There were Romans here before “England” was “England”.

Ethnically, we are a race of mongrels, and any decision which imposes a restriction of national identity membership to an archaic racial group or belief system is arbitrary in the extreme.

And how, pray tell, does one “keep” Britain white and Christian, even if it WAS those things?

PS Christ was a Jew…

Mrs Ben:

“Is MAB membership prescribed by the state for police and prison officers in the UK?”

This is what it says on the Met website:

Your Character

All employees of the Met, whether they wear a uniform or not, are in a position of responsibility and trust. As such they should be law-abiding citizens with proven integrity. If you have previously been convicted of a criminal offence or had involvement with the police your suitability will be subject to careful consideration.

We also have a policy of prohibiting any of our officers, staff and volunteers from becoming members of the BNP or similar organisations whose aims or pronouncements may contradict the duty to promote race equality.
————

The MAB don’t fall into the narrow definition of contradicting race equality. So they probably get a pass.

There have also been reports, not denied by the intelligence services, of a small number of serving police officers with links to al qaeda. They remain in post, none have been disciplined.

“The BNP are simpletons who haven’t the slightest chance of gaining power.”

How many people vote for the LibDhimmis?

Thanks for that Monty. It is interesting to see that the police have a duty to promote racial equality. No mention of promoting religious or sexual equality. Presumably it is ok for a police officer to be anti-Christians (”crusaders”) or indeed anti Moslems, or anti gays or anti feminists. Just so long as the colour of any member of these groups was not an issue.

Or do they mean the police have a duty to promote ethnic equality? I find it particularly interesting that there is no reference to religious equality only racial equality which is of course not the same thing as religious equality - although the police often seen to have difficulty distinguishing between the two.