Harry’s Place

Absolutely sterling investigative journalism on from Harry’s Place. Keep it up David T and contributors, habibi and all the others. Stories originating on here are appearing time and again in the UK papers. And all for free! Brilliant.

I really can’t see an angle the Hp haters can come from to attack on this one. But that won’t stop them. Everything’s all relative innit. One man’s terrorist…

Great piece (need to sort out the stray at the end of the first quote though!).

Particularly unpleasant is the final section of Ali’s article -

Just remind yourself of what is taking place around the world and who is going around killing whom? Violence is a tool used for various reasons and it is justified by various means, some are religious and others are as simple as ‘Weapons of Mass Destruction’ or my personal favourite…for peace!

Where do you hear the ‘repentance’ and abdication of the use of violence as a tool for political, economic or ideological purposes? Did President-Elect Obama announce the dismantling of the American war machine?

The implication - until Obama pulls troops out of Iraq, violence against “occupying” troops remains justified.

Disgusting.

What I find amazing, is that these guys tell us what they think, again and again, They’re quite open and frank. They feel morally obligated to tell the truth about what they hope to achieve, and they’re pretty confident that they’re going to get it.

Yet despite it all, there’s an official culture of Nelsonian blindness to it.

Following the links through, you get this:

http://www.blogger.com/profile/17206222432870255852

He was one of the Bloggers for Ken bloggers. Should a civil servant be doing that?

More to the point, he appears to be on the National Council of Liberty. So that explains how the Muslim Brotherhood ended up co-organising a conference with Liberty!!

http://blog.islamicforumeurope.com/?page_id=68

I am astounded!!

How much more is there to turn up on this man?!

How much more is there to turn up on this man?!

Oh dear, it gets even worse. I quote -

Go on David Davis!!!

Here he is on the Nakba -

So the 60th anniversary of the Nakba - Catastrophe- had come and gone, how was it for you? There were the odd remembrance rallies here and there, some seminars and much Dua. I thank Allah that we at least made some Dua – right?

So where did Bush remember the Palestinians? He didn’t – and why should he! I expect no less from Bush, Blair, Brown or Miliband. Allah has reminded us why they will not, read surah Baqarah verse 120 [Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion.]. My issue is with the Muslims who have allowed such an event to pass with such apathy! Are we tired? Are we fed up? Are we defeated? Are we better off doing the shopping? What is it – what is the problem? Lucky for you these are all rhetorical questions and I know that the will of the Palestinians is much stronger than ours - so all is not lost.

So what to do? I believe I have found the answer from Dr. Abdulaziz Othman Altwaijri, the director general of the Islamic Educational Scientific and Cultural Organization (ISESCO), when he said “We are lagging behind as an Islamic Ummah (community) in remembering our martyrs and our massacres. The fact that we haven’t stood together allows people to continue massacring us,”

Yes but the British establishment has clearly decided that the lesson from Northern Ireland is that the only way to defeat the enemy within is to appease it. Hence courting and appeasing Muslim radicals on the dubious grounds they are spokesman for UK Muslims.

They really haven’t grasped that the true aim of jihad in the minds of the radicals they are courting, is to turn the Uk into an islamic state and their tactics of appeasement would only hasten it.

Anwar Al-Awaki?!

Another example of al-Qa’ida reach into the Homeland is U.S. citizen, al-Qa’ida supporter, and former spiritual leader to three of the September 11th hijackers Anwar al-Awlaki—who targets U.S. Muslims with radical online lectures encouraging terrorist attacks from his new home in Yemen.

http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/speeches/sp_1225377634961.shtm

Another potentially significant San Diego contact for Hazmi and Mihdhar was Anwar Aulaqi, an imam at the Rabat mosque. Born in New Mexico and thus a U.S.citizen,Aulaqi grew up inYemen and studied in the United States on a Yemeni government scholarship.We do not know how or when Hazmi and Mihdhar first met Aulaqi.The operatives may even have met or at least talked to him the same day they first moved to San Diego. Hazmi and Mihdhar reportedly respected Aulaqi as a religious figure and developed a close relationship with him.33 When interviewed after 9/11, Aulaqi said he did not recognize Hazmi’s name but did identify his picture. Although Aulaqi admitted meeting with Hazmi several times, he claimed not to remember any specifics of what they discussed. He described Hazmi as a soft-spoken Saudi student who used to appear at the mosque with a companion but who did not have a large circle of friends.34 Aulaqi left San Diego in mid-2000,and by early 2001 had relocated to Virginia.As we will discuss later,Hazmi eventually showed up at Aulaqi’s mosque in Virginia,an appearance that may not have been coincidental.We have been unable to learn enough about Aulaqi’s relationship with Hazmi and Mihdhar to reach a conclusion.35
…
By the time Atta and Shehhi returned to Virginia Beach from their travels in Georgia,Hazmi and Hanjour had also arrived in Virginia,in Falls Church. They made their way to a large mosque there,the Dar al Hijra mosque,sometime in early April.73 As we mentioned earlier, one of the imams at this mosque was the same Anwar Aulaqi with whom Hazmi had spent time at the Rabat mosque in San Diego.Aulaqi had moved to Virginia in January 2001.He remembers Hazmi from San Diego but has denied having any contact with Hazmi or Hanjour in Virginia.74

So perhaps it was purely fortuitous, and the these were ships that passed in the night.

Here he is at the Global Peace and Unity Event, appearing alongside Maqbool Javaid

http://www.theglobalunity.com/08/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=121&Itemid=270

Here he is, helping out with Campus Salam:

http://www.campusalam.org/acknowledgements/

Campus Salam is supposedly the Government’s key ‘anti-radicalisation’ project, for university students.

Needless to say, it is packed full with people whose politics are that of Azad Ali.

The key step, the crucial breakthrough, that these guys want to make, is for the British state to recognise jihadism as a legitimate form of political expression.

This is Conflicts Forum stuff.

If CSIS is to make a worthwhile contribution to anti-extremism campaigns, it needs a new president.

Er, right. I am afraid this is another example of cut and paste google smear by association, rather than ‘investigative journalism’. This is no Seymour Hersh job - it’s not that easy.

Of course it could be that Azad Ali is terrible extremist, but the post does not remotely prove it.

Put it this way, only a fool would say that we know the president of the Civil Service Islamic Society through a post at Harry’s Place.

Moreover, if I wanted to listen to a balanced, informed discussion about what Jihad meant in the Muslim religion, I am hardly going to turn up at Harry’s Place for it.

This is why we need a secular democracy. You can bet there will have been a “Civil Service Christian Society” before the Islamic one. The Christian and Jewish institutions always provide cover for the advance of the much more dangerous Islamic ones.

We need a civil service with rules to prevent all organisation on basis of creed, race and ethnicity. No more Christian Unions, Black Associations, Islamic Societies, and - while we are about it - BNP branches.

Asked by an interviewer on Islam TV whether Iran has the right to nuclear weapons, Azad Ali replied in the affirmative: ‘You’re either fair, and you allow people… You know, what you have for yourself you allow for other people, or you’re unfair and an oppressor. So, if I’m a fair person - if I have a house and a car, I’d expect my fellow man to have a house and a car as well’.
MEMRI TV, Clip No. 1254, British Muslims Discuss Whether Iran Should Be Allowed to Obtain Nuclear Weapons, Islam TV, 23 August 2006.

In September 2006, the Sunday Times reported that the police had agreed to a key Muslim Safety Forum (then headed by azad ali) demand to consult it before mounting counter-terrorist raids or arrests. Members of the panel will offer their assessment of whether information police have on a suspect is too flimsy and will also consider the consequences on community relations of a raid. Members will be security vetted and will have to promise not to reveal any intelligence they are shown, but will not have to sign the Official Secrets Act. The move was backed by Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan police commissioner.
Abul Taher, Police to brief Muslims before terror raids, The Sunday Times, 24 September 2006.

CSIS sounds like a nightmarish version of the Masons, as if the original wasn’t dodgy enough.

Separate societies and organization - other than the likes of social and sports clubs - within state organs, by their nature make me distinctly uncomfortable.

It’s very interesting that Alwaki uses the same term for American Muslim supporters of Obama that Ayman al-Zawahiri just did in his most recent video extravaganza - “house Negroes.” One wonders if the Arabic underlying the English is also “abeed al-beyt” as it was for Zawahiri’s screed.

By the way, why shouldn’t non-Muslims bridle at the Muslim concept of jihad? It has mostly been used for armed warfare, not the inner struggle with evil. If it’s legitimate for Muslims to object to Christian crusaders, why is it illegitimate for us to object to the Muslim teaching on jihad?

marvin - Absolutely sterling investigative journalism on from Harry’s Place. Keep it up David T and contributors, habibi and all the others. Stories originating on here are appearing time and again in the UK papers. And all for free! Brilliant.

Couldn’t agree more.

This is just the stuff that causes Guardianistas to post that Harry’s Place is a ‘Muslim hate site’.

I would defined it as a BIGOT exposer site.

Or

A HYPOCRIT exposer site.

I have noticed many Muslim sites which attempt the same against Jews, supporters of Zionism or assorted persons who Jihadists have determined are detrimental to the re-constituted Caliphate. Their articles are either not featured with pertinent links or poorly linked.

Well done David T.

The ‘hate’ from CI(F) should be worn with pride.

Disclaimer: Not all Muslims are Jihadists. Not by any means. Most simply want to get on with their lives. However, they are damaging their long term interests in the UK by failing to ‘OUT’ the Jihadists sufficiently.

Shut up Benji.

“Here is the thing, personally I found that the remembrance of this disaster, when the Palestinians were terrorised out of their lands by Zionist’s, killing, raping, maiming and using every terrorist act imaginable to usurp the land that belonged to Palestinians, a bit of a damp squib.”

That is of course bullshit and projection. “Killing, raping, maiming and using every terrorist act imaginable” was exactly what the Arabs were desiring to do to the Jews. You can see it in every place where Jews lived and the Arabs captured in 1948 (Gush Etzion, Jerusalem). How much of an hypocrite can you get?

To many a passer by, I suspect, mention of Jihad evokes all sorts of blood curdling images.

It mean struggle.

For example, Hitler could just as easily titled his book “Mein Jihad”. Does that put it into context for you?

So, if I’m a fair person - if I have a house and a car, I’d expect my fellow man to have a house and a car as well’.

And if an Iranian wants to be Gay then, of course, its OK too. Isn’t it?

Palestinian Lesbians should have as much right to attend a Gay Rights parade in Ramallah as they would in Tel Aviv.

And, if Israel is allowed to have a democracy with separation of the judiciary and equal rights for Arabs and Jews then a Palestinian State has every right to have that too!

Hypocrite!

To be fair, Azad’s interpretation of the reality of Islam is largely spot-on, emphasizing the primacy of justice (compared to Christianity’s focus on love, for instance).

Both are Abrahamic religions, but Islam is closer to the eye-for-an-eye Jewish source, which Christianity steps away from with its insistence on turning the other cheek. Sorry, but you (and we) cannot get away from that, and Azad’s observations are probably correct - blathering on about peace this and that when the fundamentals of the culture balance this with “justice” is only going to suppress the reality and occasionally result in eruptions of violence.

I know we all just want to get on, but it’s wishful (and dare I say it, Christian) thinking to think we can seamlessly integrate Islam with an essentially Christian-culture by just pretending these differences don’t exist. It’s also a kind of (understandable) cultural imperialism: we expect people who come to our country to adopt our values. But history demonstrates that Islam has very clear and particular values of its own, which incidentally its adherents largely view as superior to ours (just as we view ours as superior, let’s admit).

I’m certainly not on the BNP list, but it is a shame none of our policy makers seemed to appreciate the particular difficulties inherent in integrating a culture with quite a few characteristics that do not mesh well with our own - from its sobriety, given the centrality of alcohol to our social life, to more fundamental issues such as this concept of justice and the Ummah. Of course we CAN all get on, but the journey will inevitably be fraught with the very difficulties we are now experiencing.

Our insistence on “imposing” our “Christian” perspective on the issue, blind to the realities of Islam, could well make the problem worse - when Muslims push back, that is seen as rejection by us, which promotes antagonism.

We’ve made our bed and now we have to lay in it. Accepting Muslim exceptionalism may actually be the only way forward (the confessional state) and to trust our policy makers to wise up to the realities of what it means to build a cohesive society in the future (that last part was a joke, btw).

Aside from the denunciations, there was some talk at UAT of getting together with moderate Muslim folk.

Ah! You put your finger on it. The “moderate Muslim folk” who advised the Govt after 7/7 told us that Holocaust Memorial was offensive to Muslims and that we should basically turn over teh country to MCB and everything will be fine and dandy.

It seems that whenever we try and turn to “moderate Muslim folk” we get Bungle and his acolytes turning up.

Why is there some notion of 97% of the population asking 3% of the population (to be blunt) “What do we need to do to stop you trying to kill us?” After all, what is it that motivates us to pay attention in the first place? It comes down to trying to convice a group of people not to kill us and not to incite their associates to kill us. I suppose its also a concern of asking them not to try and create a double-track society by self-isolation.

Lets face it. This is why we bother to discuss it.

Hmmm, as for the last part I think I meant multi-confessional state. Actually, it I could edit it, I’d remove it altogether.

“If the British army in Iraq is certainly a legitimate target, the state is its master, and voters and taxpayers choose the government and fund the army, why not mount attacks in the UK? This is indeed a message that recurs in “martyrdom videos” of arrested British jihadis.”

The logic is compelling and indeed something like this has happened.

I am appalled by this article. It reveals the depth of compromise with anti-Enlightenment thinking within government circles. It might have seemed sensible to talk and listen to these people once. But what is said in reply? Does anyone in public office, leave alone government, patiently explain to these groups where they are, what the social history of the country they chose to live in has been, the very different modernist reforms which are rooted in ideas and concepts utterly at odds with the central beliefs of fundamentalist faith, and not just Islamic faith at that?

I am by turns bewildered and troubled – at what might being done “in my name” every day and out of our sight – between our representatives and these Islamic proselytisers. And then angry at seeing this drip by drip compromise with the enemies of the open society exposed after the event.

I detest the BNP, but do not as many do fear them. So it is with some wryness I observe one can belong to some Islamist cell inside long established institutions of British public life, yet be banned from membership of a white extremist party.

“Our insistence on “imposing” our “Christian” perspective on the issue, blind to the realities of Islam, could well make the problem worse ” – Bloo

By “the issue” I take you to mean society? For what else could you mean? It is a popular misconception to say British society today is Christian. I have no complaint with “Winterval” in place of Christmas since so few believe.

It is true that English Law and statue have been directed by concepts and aspirations such as the rights of the individual and transparency, but these are not solely Christian concepts. Other faiths (not just Islam either) share them. To observe that Islamists are alienated by the Christian ethos of a country they entered willingly (even eagerly) is simply to play the extremists game for them.

In the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries Britain changed more than it had done in many previous centuries and saw the rise of trades unions, womens suffrage and the Labour Party which (not least the role of organised labour in defeating Germany’s fouth and fifth wars of aggression in Europe) transformed Britain. Reforms in the much maligned 1960s, for example, transformed our lives permanently. I could not begin to tell people under forty five years of age by how much.

If Islamists and those they speak for find matters in this country which displease and anger them, then, with politeness, I am of the opinion they must move on.

“It is a popular misconception to say British society today is Christian.” Actually it is a popular misconception to presume that it is not. You should read John Gray, or for that matter Roger Scruton. Sadly, religious belief is not a prerequisite for cultural identity. Your view personifies the well-meaning complacency that has created this situation.

If Islam is all about social justice, it would be nice to knowd exactly how they define that.

‘he supports the murder – yes, it would be murder - of British soldiers in Iraq.’

I don’t think resisting invasion, imprisonment, torture ans occupation is murder. Wasn’t that the Nazi attitude to resistance to their many occupations?

and

As for Jihad = Kampf

‘The Sunday chess column
By Nigel Short
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 02/05/2004

The great German polymath Emanuel Lasker wrote, among various chess and mathematical treatises a philosophy book entitled Kampf (not to be confused with Mein Kampf by Hitler - a rather different work of a more inflammatory nature). Life for me is indeed one great “struggle” - usually a losing one - against acedia. Indeed the very prospect of work is usually sufficient to induce a state of cataplexy. Why else, in truth, did I end up as a chess player, if not to avoid the irksome obligation of going to the office every day?’

Lasker was not only a great mathematician and a wonderful chess player, he was also Jewish. Did his use of ‘Kampf’ make him a Nazi? What idiots you are!

I don’t think resisting invasion, imprisonment, torture ans occupation is murder.

You could have stopped three words in.

No, resistor, you are the idiot. Der Kampf is a perfectly respectable German word, it’s the context that matters. DUMMKOPF.

This File on Four programme looks relevant to the discussion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7735211.stm

It is this kind of project that the Government’s PREVENT (PVE) initiative is trying to encourage across the country.

Millions of pounds are being poured into local projects but, as File On 4 has heard, there are questions over its effectiveness in some areas.

I have not managed to listen again to much of this programme yet, as I have had great difficulty with the iplayer lately- 1 minute of programme for interspersed with 5 minutes of buffering. I have the same broadband as always and had no such problems when it was on Realplayer. Any tips?

I omitted to mention the title of the programme- Is extremism prevention working?

Disclaimer: Not all Muslims are Jihadists. Not by any means. Most simply want to get on with their lives. However, they are damaging their long term interests in the UK by failing to ‘OUT’ the Jihadists sufficiently.

I think I shall save this disclaimer and post it at the end of everyone of my anti-islamist rants.

I detest the BNP, but do not as many do fear them. So it is with some wryness I observe one can belong to some Islamist cell inside long established institutions of British public life, yet be banned from membership of a white extremist party.

Yeah, and added to that is the fact the islamist cells are well organised, well financed and have as their aim the complete destruction of the British identity, by violence if necessary, whereas the BNP are often little better than Saturday afternoon play-pretend ‘crusaders’.

Oh dear, it seems that your spam detector is on the blink again…

Both are Abrahamic religions, but Islam is closer to the eye-for-an-eye Jewish source,

Here we go; lex talionis. Please learn something about Judaism before making such statements.

I am with Prof Moshe Sharon’s analysis of the nature of Islam. He compares it with the two other Abrahamic religions in terms of how it sees the end of days:

“End of Days

It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days.

“In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.

“Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That’s the vision.

“I’m speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.

“Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they’ll be replaced by the Christians.

“The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I’m quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. The Jews will all be killed. They’ll be running away and they’ll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, “Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him.” Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam…”

(source: http://www.ropma.net/agenda_of_islam.htm)

It is not beyond the realms of possibility that this jihad lover might agree with Moshe Sharon’s construing, might see it as inevitable or even that it is duty to bring that about. He probably has no idea that we may perceive his ideas differently from how he himself perceives them, and if he believes that jihad is the only way then he may well assume that the British government are easy dupes to that end.

And they are, aren’t they?

This article is a joke…nuffink too concerning for me.

“Supporting jihad in Iraq, or other “occupied” lands for that matter, is bad enough”

Are you seriously suggesting Chechyna, Iraq, Palestine and Kashmir etc arent occupied?

What i don’t understand is, has everone been brainwashed by the zionist propoganada machine or have we just become plain stupid? according to the geneva convention, resistance to occupation is legitimate through ANY MEANS necessary. so if the murderous zionist terror state of israel is occupying lands around it, people in that land should be allowed to resist. If zionists or anyone else for that matter unjustly invades UK, i would not rest and would exhaust all means necessary to expell these murderers from my country. And i’m sure everyone would do the same. so lets wake up to reality and not kid ourselves.

when zionist take over muslims country its perfectly fine, but when muslims try to defend them selves their labelled as terrorists, is the whole world deaf and blind? Im a proud English man but our government seems to be ignoring this illegal war on palestine.