Harry’s Place

Another cult. This is getting tedious. Can’t HP put up a separate tab for mental health stories, especially those that attract the likes of ANOTHERBARKINGPISSPOT?

“It is claimed, meanwhile, that the Kingdom of Judah went on to make up modern day Jewry, although Jews are deemed by many to be ‘ethnically mixed’ and consequently no longer ‘pure’ Israelites.”

Well, it is rather difficult to argue with that. Unless you think that Jews from Europe, Jews from the Middle East and Jews from Ethiopia are all one people, some of whom have presumably just been out in the sun longer than others.

There were never any pure Israelites. If you don’t believe me, then read the Prophets, who go on, and on, and on about intermarriage, over several centuries. Even Solomon did not have an Israelite mother, and his father David was descended from the marriage of Boaz to Ruth, also not an Israelite.

It never ended. There is at least as much Israelite blood in any given Levantine Arab as in any given Jew, and probably a great deal more. The Jews, like the “Anglo-Saxons” or indeed the Palestinians, are a thoroughly mongrel lot.

I think there’s a limit to what you can do about people whose beliefs are so utterly bonkers.

David Lindsay

Indeed, and Herod’s line was Idumean.

Nowadays, cultural groups - which is my preferred term - tend to go by self-identification - even the BNP, who use this language in their 2004 Constitution.

To which, I’d add, if other people consistently identify you as belonging to a cultural group - even if you yourself disagree - then that probably counts as well.

None of this, of course, has any direct relevance to the topic at hand, which is the British Israelite movement.

Excellent article. Perhaps Richard Dawkins will address this issue as a follow up to his ‘Enemies of Reason’ documentary

The theme of Whites being the true Chosen People and of the Jews being imposters circulates around a lot these days. It’s a staple conspiracy nuts, actually.

The BNP are also more recently against Islamism and so I can see why some Christians are attracted to them.

The comment “It is claimed, meanwhile, that the Kingdom of Judah went on to make up modern day Jewry, although Jews are deemed by many to be ‘ethnically mixed’ and consequently no longer ‘pure’ Israelites.” (which I quote without having ploughed through the article) … reminds me of the Christian Right attitudes I listen to from the USA.

There are some Christians who simply LOVE Israel and see Jews as their Brethren and in a privelieged position as the kinfolk of Jesus.

When you get to the ultra-right Republican types who are into the idea that the USA is heading for civil war and its all the fault of the Bildebergers, Rothschilds etc, and that anyway, Israelis aren’t Jews.

(As an aside related to the Christianity-Jews debate may I commend you to read a funny book called “My Jesus Year” by Benyamin Cohen http://myjesusyear.com/.

Rabbis’s son, still Orthodox but not sure of his religion marries a Christian convert to Judaism and then decides to follow Evangelical Christianity for a year to see what it has to offer and understand why Christians have a passion for their religion that Jews don’t exhibit. He seeks the blessing of a Rabbi to carry out his quest. Its granted on the condition he wears his yamulka at all times. Amusing and insightful.)

I do enjoy reading these informative posts from Edmund Standing, some very good research there.

Very well done Edmund Standing.

“If we ignore British fascists’ links to warped racist versions of Christianity, we do so at our peril.”

And what ‘peril’ would that be then? The peril of dying of boredom while wading through pages of pseudohistorical drivellings? These people are nutters, pure and simple - the lunatic fringe of a lunatic fringe. This ‘British-Israel’ garbage has been around for over a century, with no appeal to anyone other than a tiny clique of mentally-retarded fanatics in each generation. The idea of it gaining any traction in modern Britain is ridiculous.

The simple fact is that the only racist jew-haters to pose any threat to British society have brown skins, beards, and answer to names like ‘Mohammed’. But no, ignore the elephant in the room and pretend that we should all be worried about the likes of Reverend West and his phone-box-full of followers.

Well, it is rather difficult to argue with that. Unless you think that Jews from Europe, Jews from the Middle East and Jews from Ethiopia are all one people, some of whom have presumably just been out in the sun longer than others.

There were never any pure Israelites.

Sure, I wasn’t saying that. But for the British-Israel theorists, white Europeans are ‘pure’ Israelites, as contrasted with the ‘mixed’ Jews of today.

Another cult. This is getting tedious.

Perhaps so, but I think it’s an important topic, for reasons I hope I made clear in the conclusion.

I can’t be bothered to research and check every nutcase theory.

I think I’m right in saying that the so-called Aryan race is mainly to be found in the Republic of Iran and that’s why the country was named Iran when the King of the Persians was kicked out.

Great article but have to say, dave is correct

Dave is incorrect if he is suggesting that the only violent extremists we have to worry about are inspired by the Koran rather than Mein Kampf-with-a-touch-of-Bible-thrown-in.

It is idiotic to suggest that attention can only be focused on one of these threats.

I for one hope the security services are keeping a close eye on white supremacists, IRA splinter groups, and any other armed nutters, as well as Islamists.

‘Dissident Republicans pose biggest threat’
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/28/northernireland.uksecurity

‘Police reported it as the largest haul ever discovered in someone’s home in England’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talbot_Street_bomb-making_haul

“On 28 September 2006, Robert Cottage, a former candidate for the British National Party, was arrested at his home in Talbot Street, Colne.[1] The police claimed to have recovered chemical components which could be used to make explosives. They believe it is the largest haul ever discovered in someone’s home in England”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talbot_Street_bomb-making_haul

“The security services are picking up more suspicious activity from Northern Ireland’s dissident republicans than from any other radical group in the UK, the Guardian has learned. ”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/28/northernireland.uksecurity

A good school friend of mine from NI and his Dad were obsessed with “British Israelism”. He joined the Orange Order as well but left over “doctrinal issues”.

I don’t know if anyone has ever tried to argue with people who get into this kind of stuff but it is extremely painful. They have volumes and volumes of nonsense books to quote from. Cf “troofers” now I suppose.

Religious fundamentalism truly is a bane on humankind. Which is one very good reason to cheer Dawkins and Hitchens and their popular and effective anti-religion diatribes.

Kool Aid @ 22 November 2008, 6:49 pm

“I for one hope the security services are keeping a close eye on white supremacists, IRA splinter groups, and any other armed nutters, as well as Islamists.”

Oh, I think they are. I’m sure its true that Police are looking through the published BNP membership for their own employees, but they’ll be looking for a lot more than that.

Religious fundamentalism truly is a bane on humankind.

True

Which is one very good reason to cheer Dawkins and Hitchens and their popular and effective anti-religion diatribes.

False

The simple fact is that the only racist jew-haters to pose any threat to British society have brown skins, beards, and answer to names like ‘Mohammed’.

Oh, fuck off!

the racialist notion of an Ayran “race” is a figment of imagination and myth, I doubt that there are 100,000s of blue eyed blonds roaming around the area of Iran.

which reminds me of that old German joke:

Q: what does the ideal Aryan look like ?

A: As tall as Goebbels, as slim as Goring, as blond as Hitler

Blimey, a handful of odd Christians belong to the BNP. Who would have believed it. Fascinating.

Venichka: True.

Stephen I think there’s a limit to what you can do about people whose beliefs are so utterly bonkers.

Yes.

A very astute conclusion.

Edmund. Thank you for the article. I think that it really was well researched and you have my respect BUT. Kudnt it have been shorter???

I mean. I got the idea a third of the way through it but read it till the end out of true respect for your herculean efforts.

I’m serious. Its very good.

Just a little long.

Great stuff, I’ve been following Robert West’s antics for a while and I wrote a modest piece on the three BNP “Reverends” on the membership list here.

Maven,

I believe the BNP are against more than just Islamism.

“the theory of British Israelism, the British, and other European peoples, are in reality the so-called ‘lost tribes’ of Israel”

Too damn funny. The BNP-Black Israelite nexus…cracked.

I’m not sure how “important” it is to know about this particular, one-of-many, philo-anti-semitic cults, but it sure is amusing.

So are there folks who actually believe this bat-shit crazy nonsense, or do they just get into it a la Dungeons & Dragons because it gives them something to hang their bigotry on?

Not only that, Black Voter. They say they are against Islam not just Islamism. Take a look at the blog that Mark Collett and Griffin kept when they were on trial:
It was clearly a mistake not to fight harder to stress the material I came across in my studies of Islam which convinced me that it is inherently ‘extreme’, fundamentalist and dangerous
Or at their despicable national leaflet about Islam.

But it would be a shame to let another interesting post have its comments monopolised by an Islam “yea or nay” discussion as happens rather too often on HP.

So, Edmund Standing I salute you, your post was fascinating. Just a little question, are there any figures for membership of Christian Identity groups in the UK?

Maven, are the BNP still ‘useful idiots?’

One might consider the position of the Volkisch fringe in Germany during the 1890s to see that weird-arse/quasi-rabid bonkers ideas await their chance. These trends/subcultures are a currently benign cancer, they can and might well become malignant. A fine post, thank you.

If you have athens login, may I suggest R Griffin’s ‘The ‘Holy Storm’: ‘Clerical Fascism’ through the Lens of Modernism’ in Totalitarian Movements and Political Religions, Vol. 8, No. 2, 213–227, 2007. A fine look at the synthesis between religion and ultra-nationalism

I once heard that the Scots - I am one of them - were the ‘lost’ tribe of Israel. Frankly, it didn’t help me find myself.

The people that believe this kind of stuff are also likely to believe in the Illuminati, aliens with rectal probes and tears from statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I too admire your research. But your conclusion seems to me to be a bit over the top. I am astonished these people can even write in coherent sentences.

Shmuel is right. It is funny. Fortean Times would probably pay you money for this essay. Just a thought….

“If we ignore British fascists’ links to warped racist versions of Christianity, we do so at our peril.”

That you have been able to post this, means that they are advertising their views. You may think this is a bad thing, but I don’t. You have to consider what most people think when they read this dreck. They find it risible. The more people who know about it, the better.

If you are ever in a gunfight against a guy who carries a pistol tucked into his belt buckle, remember this. He is aiming a loaded gun at his own willy, and it is not in your best interests to stop him.

I’m not worried about the select class of nutter portrayed in this piece. Far more worrying is the hotch-potch of trendy pseudo-left ideas ranging from 9/11 “truth” through false-flag, zio-conspiracy etc that are believed by so many people I meet and are a real threat to democracy.

“The people that believe this kind of stuff are also likely to believe in the Illuminati, aliens with rectal probes and tears from statues of the Blessed Virgin Mary”

I am adopting the “aliens with rectal probes” retort for my collection of anti-nutters retorts.

“Alienígenas con sondas rectales” in Spanish.

Following the recent leak of the BNP membership list, it may have come as a surprise to find that some members were listed as active Christians.

Why would that have come as a surprise?

aliens with rectal probes

I know they take fingerprints and an iris photograph – is this the latest treatment meted by INS to visitors at USA airports?

S.O.Muffin,

Look. You’ve got to avoid these easy, obvious ideas.

It is quite clear that it is a circus, that is the theatre of fear.

Entry, ooh missus, into the USA is what Homeland Security is against.

Clowns dressed up as Security. Growling at you and being pretendy important. Paid for you by the US government.

And they do do rectal ‘inspections’ given the chance.

You are safe, because we pretend to be secure.

Pie in your face.

I hate clowns.

Have just seen Waltz with Bashir (wonder if DaveM has managed to see it yet). and would appreciate a thread to hear people’s views on it, particularly those like S O Muffin who have experienced combat.

The fact that dozens upon scores of people in this country believe not only in bizarre and fanciful British origin myths, bu alslo at the same time embrace nationalist and conspiracy-theorist politics is truly terrifying!

Meanwhile, in the real world, New Labour are about to embark on a policy that, if it does not destroy the pound first, will mean that in 20 years we’re all paying 70% income taxes simply the service the interest on the national debt.

Grow up, losers.

in 20 years we’re all paying 70% income taxes simply the service the interest on the national debt.
please show your workings

I suppose someone has to track these lunacies, the cancer cells in the body politic. But I don’t think we can all be expected to find these groupuscle activities of interest.

The facts are plain. The BNP are a Nazi front. That’s all we need to know.
Just as Respect was an SWP/Islamist front.

modernity blog, Serves me right for ‘not being bothered to research every nutcase theory’ so, in view of your comment (a view mistakenly and widely held), I went and found my horse’s mouth and here it is.
Migrants from Central Asia and the Indian subcontinent began arriving in what is now Iran nearly four thousand years ago, pushed out by a combination of resource depletion and marauding tribes from the north and east. Among them were the Aryans, from whose name the word ‘Iran’ is taken. The emperor who united these migrant bands for the first time was Cyrus, one of history’s most gifted visionaries and the figure who first conceived the idea of an empire based in the region known as Pars (later Fars).
After rising to power in 559 B.C., Cyrus launched a brilliant military campaign that brought other leaders on the vast Iranian plateau under his sway. Some he conquered, but many he won to his side by persuasion and compromise. Today he is remembered for his conquests but also for the relative gentleness with which he treated his subjects. He understood that this was an even surer way to build a durable empire than the more common means of oppresion, terror, and slaughter.
In 547 [B.C.] Cyrus marched into Asia Minor and captured the majestic Lydian capital of Sardis. Seven years later he subdued the other great regional power, Babylon. Over the decades that followed, he and his successors went on to more great victories, including one by Xerxes in which Macedon, Thermopylae, and Athens were taken by an army of 180,000 men, by far the largest seen in Europe up to that time. This dynasty, known as the Achaemenians, built the greatest empire of its era. By 500 B.C. it embraced the eastern Mediterannean from Greece through modern-day Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, Egypt and Libya and stretched eastward across the Caucasus to the banks of the Indua. Cyrus called it Persia because it spranf from his own base in Pars.
The tolerant and all-embracing approach to life and politics for which Achaemenian emperors were known sprang in part from their connection to the Zoroastrian faith, which holds that it is the sacred responsibility of every human being to work towards establishing social justice on earth [.....] The prophet Zoroaster, later known to Europeans as Zarathustra, lived sometime between the tenth and seventh centuries B.C. in what is now northeastern Iran [....]
When Arab conquerors reached Ctesphion in 638, the looted the palace and sent the magnificent carpet to Mecca, where Muslim leaders ordered it cut to pieces to show their contempt for worldly wealth. They destroyed countless treasures, including the entire royal library. In an account of this conquest of this conquest written by the tenth-century Persian poet Ferdowsi, a general laments: ‘Curse this world, curse this time, curse this fate / That uncivilized Arabs have come to force me to be a Muslim.”
Later in the same epic, the ‘Shahnameh’, which is four times as long as the Iliad and took thirty-five years to compose, Ferdowsi portrays the losing Persian commenader, Rustam, lamenting the misfortune he sees ahead:
O Iran! Where are all those kings, who adorned you
With justice, equity munificence, who decorated
You with pomp and splendor gone?
From that date when the barbarian, savage, coarse
Bedouin Arabs sold your king’s daughter in the street
And cattle market, you have not seen a bright day, and
Have lain hid in darkness.

(All the Shah’s Men / Stephen Kinzer)

A friend of mine on holiday in the Icelandic capital of Reykavik was surprised to discover that the inhabitants of the land of Brunhild were, according to genetic research, most closely related to the Irish.

—-
We must often be circumspect before accepting what passes for ‘common knowledge’ in this dog-eat-dog world.

The facts are plain. The BNP are a Nazi front. That’s all we need to know.

We know this, but apparently the good people of Boston (Lincolnshire) don’t.

ES, an interesting choice of name - ‘The Boston Standard’ (standard: a basic level of quality, a popular song, a flag …)
And so I look to its narrow-minded motto:
“My Town, My News, My Paper” …
This my-my-my-mentality is very sad. Very sad and very childish.

http://northwestnationalists.blogspot.com/2008/11/evil-paedos-are-secret-bnp-thugs.html

“….because the kingdom of God belongs to people like these.”

poet-in-residence…but not the Boston Evening Transcript of TS Eliot, at least

THE READERS of the Boston Evening Transcript
Sway in the wind like a field of ripe corn.

When evening quickens faintly in the street,
Wakening the appetites of life in some
And to others bringing the Boston Evening Transcript,
I mount the steps and ring the bell, turning
Wearily, as one would turn to nod good-bye to Rochefoucauld,
If the street were time and he at the end of the street,
And I say, “Cousin Harriet, here is the Boston Evening Transcript.”

Some painstaking research.
For those pointing out Islamic extremism and/or Israeli activities, surely this is not a for or agin issue. Or one of those annoying ‘well Stalin did X’ arguments.
And for those that feel it is about nutters (true), there is an off button.

FWIW I don’t think these people are the real threat, that comes from those who claim to be ‘normal’ in the BNP list. The party will try to play the victim here. They must be shown to be as legitimate as a Ronaldo penalty claim.
Therefore, it is important to highlight what company they are in - a very broad church and show what the real leadership of the party think. c/f White History Month

Even the quickest scan reveals that known Nazis who appear in the BNP membership list include Graham Tasker from Chesterfield (a convicted member of the blatantly Nazi BNP spin-off group Combat 18, who participated in vicious Redwatch attacks in Nottingham, Mansfield and London), the recently convicted Nazi weapons nut Ellis Hammond from Welling, Adrian Woods from Langley Mill (a long-time BNP activist and C18 hooligan), Scott McLean from Glasgow (the former BNP deputy leader who was filmed giving Nazi salutes at a KKK style cross burning), Stephen Cartwright from Manchester (a C18 skinhead who was exposed in the TV documentary “Nazi Hate Rock”), convicted C18 football hooligan Neil Keilty, BNP councillor and C18 thug Adrian Marsden from Halifax, failed BNP election candidate Roy James from Sheffield (who openly admits he supports Adolf Hitler’s “National Socialism”), Tommy Williams from Sheffield (who produces the blatantly racist and Hitlerite “Covert Undercover Nuisance Tactics” blog), failed BNP election candidate, C18 thug and convicted hooligan Warren Glass from Cove, the wife of BNP nail-bomber Tony Lecomber, Derek Beackon from Essex (the 1st BNP councillor and ex-member of an openly Nazi group called the British Movement), BNP candidate and convicted criminal Michael (Mick) Treacy from Oldham, convicted criminals Colin Smith and Paul Thompson, veteran NF official Richard Edmonds, and convicted Nazi terrorist and failed child-killer Lambertus Nieuwhof from Hereford.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mooIUiscXi8

voter, Many thanks for the verse. In 1941 with the demise of Boston’s genteel organ and the rise of the Volks Blatt the writing was on the toilet wall.

poet-in-residence,

you keep repeat myth, rumour and pre-history as if they were scientific fact, they are NOT.

the notion of an “Aryan race” as some blond blue-eye superior human beings is bollocks and I would have hope it died out after 1945.

The party will try to play the victim here

Sacking someone for belonging to a legal party is victimisation. But it’s all part and parcel of British left totalitarianism, like the latest proposed totalitarian legislation from our dumb home secretary.

PREVIEW BUTTON, PLEASE.

I think there’s a limit to what you can do about people whose beliefs are so utterly bonkers. – Stephen.

I agree. And they do not worry me in the slightest as long as the majority of them remain in the USA. However, there have been people with similarly bonkers ideas around for centuries. Today the internet lets them reach an audience they could never have had otherwise.

There are more pressing questions to address and less daft individuals to watch out for.

Eight teenagers have been sentenced to time in jail by a court in Israel for carrying out a series of neo-Nazi attacks that shocked the nation.

The eight, aged from 16 to 19, were found guilty of attacking religious Jews, gays and drug addicts, and the desecration of a synagogue.

The group, immigrants to Israel from the former Soviet Union, were sentenced to between one and seven years in jail.

Israel was founded in the wake of the Nazi Holocaust in which million died.

One of those convicted was the grandson of a Holocaust survivor.

There was widespread revulsion in Israel when the existence of the neo-Nazi gang was revealed after their arrests in 2007.

Attacks filmed

Delivering his verdict, the judge at Tel Aviv district court said he handed down severe penalties in an effort to deter others from following their example.

The fact that they are Jews from the ex-Soviet Union and that they had sympathised with individuals who believed in racist theories is terrible

Judge Tsvi Gurinkel
Gang leader Erik Bonite, who is also known as Ely the Nazi, was sentenced to seven years in jail, the AFP news agency reported.

“The fact that they are Jews from the ex-Soviet Union and that they had sympathised with individuals who believed in racist theories is terrible,” Judge Tsvi Gurinkel said as he handed down his verdict.

“We know this, but apparently the good people of Boston (Lincolnshire) don’t.”

Perhaps not but keep the message simple is my recommendation. In the old days “The National Front is a Nazi front” was a great way of getting the message across. (Forget for a moment that it was an SWP front organisation, the Anti Nazi League delivering it! Politics is never simple!!).

A simple poster campaign - “BNP = British Nazi Party” might help.

flipside, why not lay off the Jew baiting it is rather unseemly?

flipside, why not lay off the Jew baiting it is rather unseemly?
and the rest of this BULLSHIT doesn’t? hahaaaahbhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahaha

Very interesting post. Thank you.

For a post I have to say it was a bit long, but it’s good stuff nonetheless.

Of course, what you’re talking about has long roots - though it would be difficult to say that they’re influencing some of the subjects of your material.

To take one example: this idea of Eve and Satan getting it together in Eden and producing Cain and from his seed a line of evil. There’s an aspect of that in Beowulf with the monsters being descended from Cain. Also some of the weirder early modern Protestant sects bought into this idea (the obvious counterpoint here would be the chosen, the blessed seed of Abraham). So you could take a look at that.

As for anti-Popery, did you have a look at Ian Paisley? That’s certainly a very strong component of all this. And goes back at least to John Foxe’s ‘Book of Martyrs’.

and the rest of this BULLSHIT doesn’t?

What was that a response to? I mean grammaticallly.

‘And did those feet, in ancient times…’

No. They didn’t.

Globalists
Racemixers
Traitor Governments
Homosexuals
False Prophets
Vicars and Priests
Children of the Devil (John 8: 44)
Anti-Christ Socialists
Currency Speculators
The World Bank
Drug Pedlars [sic]
The International Monetary Fund
The United Nations
ALL WORKING FOR
The Synagogue of Satan

Excellent. I’m at least 2 of those. I will reserve my seat in the ladies’ balcony forthwith.

Excellent. I’m at least 2 of those. I will reserve my seat in the ladies’ balcony forthwith.

Sorry, Mrs Trellis, all Services at the Synagogue of Satan are cancelled for the foreseeable future. I need to get the carpets cleaned. The False Prophets shindig last night made a terrible mess…

Heh, Mrs Trelis. I’m three (possibly 4, depending on whether father is indeed devil, or just lovable English eccentric).

Bit disappointed to find vicars and priests in with us - was rather hoping that Satanville would be rather less pious.

I encountered the man(or rather the leaflet he thrust at me) mentioned in the article at the Durham Miners’ Gala this year. Both myself and my partner thought it was a very odd place for him to be and we laughed at his description of the European Union as the plaything of the Catholic church.

I must say I’ve never actually seen any of his letters in the local press and he must be a minnow in the BNP activist stakes up here given that they came fourth in the last general election in one ward in Washington and that they almost got a councillor elected in Bowburn in the local elections in May.

All this stuff is obviously bullshit supernatural mumbo-jumbo.

The crystal skulls though…