Harry’s Place

And the fact that a meaningless little twat like him, who few people outside of this blog have heard of, has done what you would expect means…..not a lot really.

If you have a look at the comments thread to that article, poor Richard exhibits his profound ignorance of the Sub Continent, claiming that 2/3 of Indian Muslims live in Jammu-Kashmir.
He’s not to be taken seriously.

On the subject of Jews being targetted.
Seymour supports groups who’s aim is to attack Jews wherever they live.

That wasn’t meant to be rude. Just simply that its a given that little people like ‘Lenin’ or whatever his/her name is will lie, omit and be dishonest in order to lend some sort of credibility to their world view.

But, the fact is, their ‘world view’ is pretty meaningless.

Im more concerned about the mainstream media treatment of stories such as these - The BBC’s discomfort with reporting the ‘jewish angle’ to this story is particularly amusing/grim.

Matt

David T wil not want to mention the jewish angle for reasons I can see (but not agree with).

But the Beeb will be under instruction not to upset the Muslims, it shows in their coverage, and discredits them as a news organisation.

Incidentally, reports leaking out that India suspects involvement of British Jihadis.

Obviously much to early to know anything. But would anyone be surprised. Britain…exporting terror to India. Who would have thought..

I can’t work out whether the BBC et al can’t work out why Jews might have been targeted.

Or whether they just take it as a ‘given’ that Islamists will attack Jews, wherever they are.

I thought it was hillarious how al-BBC tiptoed around the Muslim issue. trying not to mention the M word.

-

>is that it was built to give the Indian upper class somewhere decent to stay in an age of colonial racism and segregation.

Of course there was no colonialism, racism or segregation before the evil Whilte man came to India. Before that everyone lived in Socialist communes, and sang Cumbaya before sharing organic sprout soup and sharing the fruits of their labour fairly.

The biggotry of the Looney Left leave the BNP in the shade.

Seems rather odd. David T is against focusing on the Jewish angle initially, but is prompted to do so because Lenin doesn’t? Presumably, though, the reasons why he was against doing so initially still stand, irrespective of Lenin.

If folk want to focus on the Jewish angle it seems fair enough, if you feel you have horses in the race, as it were. I don’t, personally; I just feel a general sense of unease regarding anybody killing other folk like this, irrespective of the ethnic/religious background of the victims.

If folk want to focus on the Jewish angle it seems fair enough, if you feel you have horses in the race, as it were. I don’t, personally; I just feel a general sense of unease regarding anybody killing other folk like this, irrespective of the ethnic/religious background of the victims.

So you do have a “horse in the race” then don’t you?
The people who are targetted because of their religion or ethnic background.

OK Benji, here’s your opportunity to tell us what you think. Not to tell us what you think about me, but what you actually think about the issue.

Why do you think it was, that some South Asian terrorists, carrying out an attack in a South Asian city, sought ought and captured a Jewish community centre.

Was it:

- a complete accident?
- only to be expected?
- a natural product of Israel’s policies?
- an expression of a specific desire to attack Jews, because they are Jews?

Is the selection of Jews:

- unremarkable?
- indistinguishable from the decision to shoot at tourists generally?
- something only really of interest to Jews, but not actually to anybody else

?

What do you actually think?

I’d love to know.

Surely John Rees was removed from the SWP CC for his links to the anti semites he courted at the Cairo Conference?

David, I can’t access Seymour’s post. Did he have any explanations for the attack on the Cama Hospital? Or the fact that when the terrorists shot up commuters in the railway station, there were few white imperialist tourists present?

Oh, and could you stop calling him ‘Lenin’? His name his Richard Seymour. Calling him ‘Lenin’ makes him think he matters.

David,

the attack on the Jewish centre would seem to need to be taken alongside the apparently intent to target US/UK citizens as well - but all of that will prbably need to wait until we have a clearer picture of the group involved. After all, it depends who the main target is: the Indian government (i.e. the intent is destabilisation and to drive away froeigners), or the froeign powers…

I went to the Taj hotel many times as a kid living in Bombay in the 60s, they did a killer black-cow.

Can Lenin’s philosophy explain how it is that an Indian Islamist group, in a country many many miles away from the Middle East, plagued by inter-communal struggles that have nothing at all to do with Jews, select Jews as a target.

No but this Hadith might give just a hint…

You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, ‘O ‘Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him

There’s plenty more where that came from.

“If folk want to focus on the Jewish angle it seems fair enough, if you feel you have horses in the race, as it were. ”

Presumably you don’t have a ‘horse in the race’ when a Jew is murdered if you are not yourself Jewsish, eh Benjamin? Should I point out that that position only makes sense if you don’t believe that Jews are quite human? If they were, we would all have a ‘horse’ in this ‘race’. But some races are rather different from others, ater all. Bloody Jews, always snivelling! Don’t they know that loads of other people get murdered too.

This reminds me of a converstion I once had with an industrial chemist in Turin. He mentioned that he used to work with ‘Dr Levi’, the author. I was impressed and asked him what he was like as a man. The chemist leaned forward and said, sourly: ‘the Hebrews think they are the only people who suffered in the war’. And left it at that. Another man who felt that he didn’t have any ‘horses’ in certain races.

Why do you expect Mr Seymour to explain anything to anyone outside his dedicated circle. What’s this about ‘masterful’; perhaps ‘magisterial’ would be respectful/

This part of the spectacle, meant for international consumption, can’t have been coordinated by the Indians alone.

This suggests to me that “kenona” is just a tad racist (actually a lot more than that) - after all, to the likes of him, those brown people can’t be expected to put on such a coordinated display can they?

Never mind the fact that, apropos Disraeli, “kenona”’s ancestors (who is likely to be a pasty pink Anglo-Saxon) were savages in a tent whilst the ancestors of the Indians had plumbing, sewage systems and central heating in Mohendaro.

This just is further fuel for my hypothesis that liberals are, as a group, the most racist and bigoted people out there. Certainly most liberals I’ve ever had the (mis)fortune to meet validate that hypothesis. I gave up on many of them (who had been vaguely close friends for years) when they started claiming that sometimes women were to be blame for being raped (the same ones also started claiming that 9-11 was an “act of desperation” and an “act of defense” by Al-Queda).

I’m not too sure what the point is here. Islamists in anti-Semite shcoker?

“I can’t work out whether the BBC et al can’t work out why Jews might have been targeted.

Or whether they just take it as a ‘given’ that Islamists will attack Jews, wherever they are.”

This what I am assuming - Islamists hate Jews, so will always attack them

David T

It was:

- an expression of a specific desire to attack Jews, because they are Jews.

The decision to attack Jews must be fed into an overall analysis of the situation.

I don’t really have a horse in the race. I don’t have any particular reason to highlight Jews in this situation, suffice to say they were targeted along with Hindus, in a rather despicable act.

So my outrage, such as it is (I am rather jaded) is motivated by any person being targeted, irrespective of ethnicity, religion and all that malarkey.

Sky News Correspondent is particularly well versed.

On the attack on the Jewish centre she was srood outside claiming that the building had been targeted for its “sheer ordinariness”

Give that woman a Publitzer prize.

Presumably you don’t have a ‘horse in the race’ when a Jew is murdered if you are not yourself Jewsish, eh Benjamin? Should I point out that that position only makes sense if you don’t believe that Jews are quite human?

Well, that’s rather strained. Of course, in a more general sense, there are horses in the race, that run together, and if you are concerned about horses generally, then one can be concerned about all the horses in the race. Especially during the Grand National, it gets rather rough.

However, I am talking about particular horses in the race; when watching the races, folk are often concerned about particular horses.

I don’t have a particular horse in the race, and I am not a betting man, but I guess I have a level of concern for horses generally.

I hope that explains my analogy.

This just is further fuel for my hypothesis that liberals are, as a group, the most racist and bigoted people out there

As kenona isn’t a liberal, this is a non-sequiter

Also, in my experience, the most racist people I’ve met have been right-wingers

I was going to write a satire about likely ‘leftist’ reactions to the Mumbai mass murders, but with his talk about ‘Western decadence’ Seymour beat me to it!

Btw David: Emily Tribbs, who is partially sighted and lame after working twelve hours a day for Fenland gangmasters is miffed that you did not link her fine elegy for Rees to her Tendancy’s site on the page you posted it on.

oh gosh, sorry!!! I will correct.

The BBC has had a “live updates page” for the past 24 hours. They’re now into their second version:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7753639.stm

the first is here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7752003.stm

they’ve linked to a few people’s twitters, but only two blogs. One is:

http://desicritics.org/2008/11/27/003254.php

the other is noted expert on the matter, Richard Seymour aka Lenin.

http://leninology.blogspot.com/

why on earth would they do this? Since when did Seymour become to go to expert on the matter?

The decision to attack Jews must be fed into an overall analysis of the situation.

You’re really going out on a limb there Benji.

Blimey Benjmin, you won’t say what you think, will you. Why, do you think, these particular attackers targeted Jews? What might be the reasons for that? I know you think of it as a sort of game, but that should make it easier to discuss, not harder, surely. (By the way, who do you think has won this race?)

Just out of interest, how long are Respect and the StWC campaign going to be campaigning with the MB which says this (from site cited above):

“We will fight a civil war if need be against the pro-Hindutva, communal forces and their Israeli backers. “

Benji is talking horseshit.

reading the conspiracist loons on richards site brings me back to his moderating policy. My comment questioning his desciption of the plight of palestinians as a ‘Holocaust’ was cut straight away, whilst anti jewish conspiracists are happily accomodated.

Blimey Benjmin, you won’t say what you think, will you. Why, do you think, these particular attackers targeted Jews?

Steady on John. I’ve explained the analogy to you. It’s pretty straightforward. As I explained to David, the terrorists targeted Jewish folk presumably because they don’t like them very much. That is reasonably clear. They don’t like Hindus much either, apparently.

Hindutva organisations have been accused of acting as agents provocateur by attacking Hindus and Hindu sites to stir up anti-Muslim communalism, but nothing on this scale. And the BJP is not so stupid as to take such a great risk, particularly as it still has a good chance of winning elections.

As for targetting Jews, it is very rare in India. In Kolkata, the caretaker of both synagogues is a Muslim. There have been synagogues in India for a couple of thousand years. Lots of Israelis visit India - it seems to be the place to go before military service - and feel absolutely no animosity from Indians. So, the attack on a Jewish target suggests that this group was heavily influenced and probably trained and armed by foreign groups. While Lashka-e-Toiba is able to maintain terrorist training camps near Lahore and while the military (which has been emboldened by its alliance with Washington, but retains links with terrorists) remains the dominant force in Pakistani politics and the economy, South Asia will continue to suffer these kind fo attacks. The war on terrorism may have made matters worse.

Richard Seymour did write a good post, though. One of his better ones.

Fuck off, Benji.

On the attack on the Jewish centre she was srood outside claiming that the building had been targeted for its “sheer ordinariness”

Perhaps the world is facing a new danger from militant architects.

The train station is, from my experience, not a place where you expect to find Western tourists at all. They tend to travel by air. It is, however, a place where you can reliably expect to find Indians of all religions. Even at that time of night, when the sleeper trains leave for other cities.

The BBC reports on the main targets here

It says of Nariman House:

Gunmen seized control of the Nariman House business and residential complex on Wednesday. Police surrounded the complex, which houses the Jewish Chabad Lubavitch outreach centre and sent in commandos on Friday…The centre acts as a centre for prayer and study, attracting many Jewish and Israeli visitors every year.

I’ts pretty clear from the description that this is a ‘Jewish’ target.

Seymour’s post was not great; it was slapped together to look like he knows what he is talking about when he does not, thus it had to be changed several times yesterday causing him great humiliation and an admission that he doesn’t know what he is talking about.

I just have to question the instincts of someone who sees Indians getting massacred and, before we know anything about the attackers, scrambles to put up as much anti Indian government propaganda as he can to throw up dust. It’s deeply unseemly to me. At least wait till the hostages are free before you try to put the carnage in “context”.

You’re right to highlight his omission about the Jewish centre and that is an important indicator of the intellectual bankruptcy of his ideology, however the complete omission of analysis of the jihadi ideology that creates such terrorists is just as striking. He is happy to call the democratically elected government of India a bunch of fascists - they are Hindu so that is okay - but it’s racist to call an Islamist a fascist. He refuses to see the contradiction here.

I did warn lenin yesterday that such a post, that is full of propaganda and implicitly seeks to smear the victims, is attracting conspiracy theorist like the Third Tower nutball “kenoma”. These are the fruit cakes who believe they can solve major terrorist crimes by going on google, and they make up a large part of his base. It wouldn’t surprise me if his post is being circulated on jihadi websites.

I was going to write a satire about likely ‘leftist’ reactions to the Mumbai mass murders, but with his talk about ‘Western decadence’ Seymour beat me to it!

The quote you are referring to is from the Daily Telegraph.

“built to give the Indian upper class somewhere decent to stay in an age of colonial racism and segregation”

When I read that I knew I was in the presence of a man with an agenda, therefore not worth bothering about. Situations like the one in Mumbai need a thorough review and thoughtful overview, not something rolled off the ‘correct thinking’ production line and hacked together by a left-whinger.

Not everything the British did abroad was all bad, and some things were done because they could, or even maybe they liked the look of the Indian architecture.

And stop calling yourself ‘Lenin’, you twat. You’re Richard Seymour. You’re a perpetual student dabbling in fringe leftist politics as an alternative to getting a proper job, and you use a web-page to pretend that you’re some radical-intellectual big-shot who’s the voice of the left, as opposed to a no-hoper dilettante with as much of a future as a snowball in the Sahara. Deal with it.

Richard Seymour did write a good post

He did. He is, indeed, a good writer.

I am his biggest fan. I love the SWP.

I am thinking of joining the party.

Quick note: He doesn’t say what Tim says he says: he says that Kashmir has a large Muslim population: nice to see that Tim telepathically picks up on BJP thugs obsessions. And what is it that Lenin can’t explain? That Islamist ideology is reactionary? Really? How do you work that one out? Bizarre. Nice to see though that you at last recognise the superior quality of Lenin’s analyses. Honest there at least.

Oh, the fragnant JohnG has made an appearance, I see!

Given the recent schisms in the SWP, when are you off to the BPA?

Unfortunately for Richard,despite his occasionally good 3 point turns phrase,there’s usually an elementary grasp of background.
Writing a literate article about 10,000 dead in Hurricane Katrina, or 12 Million Iraqi dead is a pointless excercise really.

johng,

If you look in the comments thread you’ll see that poor confused Richard thought that 2/3 of Indias Muslims live in Jammu-Kashmir and 1/4 in West Bengal.

A fairly basic piece of ignorance I’m sure you’d agree.

Points taken, but just to clarify on the question of population, this is the passage I’m referring to:

Good to see Johng and Seymour here. I am sure they will take the opportunity to address the glaring gap in the Lenin’s Tomb analysis concerning the targeting of Jews in the recent attacks.

And what is it that Lenin can’t explain?

Let me help you. It’s in the post.

there is one strange omission from Lenin’s analysis. Why did the terrorists specifically target a Jewish centre?

There you go.

And what is it that Lenin can’t explain? That Islamist ideology is reactionary? Really?

The point is, he sets out to explain everything and goes into extraordinary detail about background matters that are largely irrelevant, but then omits the bloody obvious issues that are going on, like the Jewish centre being attacked, and the fact jihadist ideology creates these attacks.

In that sense he is a very poor writer. He has learnt a lesson here.

tt,

what is al-BBC?

as long as this guy is not among the terrorists targets he will keep whitewashing their deeds.

as long as terrorists only target people whom he considers to be his enemies, it will be ok for terrorists to keep bombing, shooting, stabbing and killing people.

this is a deeply morally corrupted individual and that’s it. ideology is just an excuse. he uses ideology as a way to channel his hatred and make it look ‘legitimate’. well, it is not.

Nice to see though that you at last recognise the superior quality of Lenin’s analyses.

Must admit I have yet to see any evidence of this.

lenin loves little academic exercises like this - “lets see how much detail I can find out about the background of a breaking event, and write it all up on my kick arse blog. That will be really sexy”!

But that’s the problem. This is not an abstract academic competition for far left writers; this is a real life situation where Islamists have gone on the rampage again.

This is why he misses the point. His approach is all wrong.

Mike is willing to help him understand better if he chooses to listen. The ball is in his court.

I won’t be waiting around forever though.

Someone at the BBC likes him though -

2220 The BBC’s Damian Grammaticas outside the Oberoi hotel says: Police believe there are still two gunmen hiding out on the 18th floor, and up to 50 people are still being held hostage.

2132 From the Lenin’s Tomb blog, Northern Ireland: This grotesque hunting and killing of innocents is likely to succeed in (what appears to be) its principle aim of generating both a repressive response from the Indian state and a communal reaction. Read Lenin’s Tomb.

you wake up in the morning knowing nothing about a subject, and by the afternoon you’ve written an article in the tone of someone who’s been studying the issue for years.

welcome to the world of richard symour.

I had to LOL in a bitter, hollow way at the BBC man who, on showing a picture of one of the gunmen said it was “the unlikely face of terrorism - a young Asian man in Western dress”. Er, yeah…OK…”unlikely” eh?

Mark T, they have people scanning around the blogs looking for any bit of comment from blogs to add to their gimmicky ‘live updates’ section. I’m sure the beeb would be as shocked as the rest of us to find out that this material had somehow got through the net.

It’s very unfortunate that last night someone came over from the beeb website that had loved ones missing and was searching for news, and were absolutely shocked to the core to read this hysterical anti government propapanda on the tomb. lenin simply deleted their post and claimed they were a troll. Telling.

What, Richard S and Johng still silent on the Jewish question? Amazing. They must be really busy or something.

Perhaps we should be glad that during the Northern Ireland communal violence the BBC did not refererence the ramblings of an Indian student whose analysis started from the position that 2/3 of all Northern Irish Catholics live in South Tyrone.

The train station would have been full of Indians and not the elite.
It seems that Americans and British people were singled out as well as jews.
The majority of people who died in this event were probably Hindus - I bet more muslims were murdered than Jews here.
Of course Jihadists want to kill jews and bears poo in the woods!

“Of course Jihadists want to kill jews and bears poo in the woods!”

It may seem obvious to you, but Mr Seymour, who is a strong advocate of a militantly antisemitic Islamist party (Hamas), tends to disagree. That is why it would be interesting to hear his view. But he obviously hasn’t had a moment yet to think it over.

A good parallel might be the neo Nazi, Copeland, who set a bomb in the gay pub the Admiral Duncan.

In the event, he killed a pregnant straight woman

But he had wanted to kill gay people.

The scandal here lay in the way in which these events are being reported.

The jihaidsts are described as ‘gunman’ and ‘militants’ as practically all of the media go out of their way to avoid using the terms ‘islamist’ or ‘muslims’ for fear of upsetting the poor dears.

If reports pan out that some of these jihadists are British-born Pakistanis, then how long will it be before other British born Pakistanis pull a similar stunt in the heart of London?

These people are so full of hate, so devoid of humanity and so pumped up with supremacist sentiment, that the only thing that’ll make ‘em sit up straight and behave is a two-by-four right across the face.

One cannot reason or negotiate with such a sick mentality; it’s all or nothing, kill or be killed.

And as for the targeting of Jews? Well, Islam’s ‘holy’ scriptures clearly call for such actions.

I’m surprised that seemingly intelligent people are still surprised by that.

One last thing, isn’t it about time the international community issued a warning to Pakistan that they get their house in order…or else!

This South Asian human rights shithole, this parasitic recipient of billions in foreign aid (the place can’t even feed itself, but has nuclear warheads) is just utterly worthless.

It is chock-full of psychos and aids, abetts, protects and harbours people who are so sick with religion they are a danger to the entire planet.

Rant over.

There are very few Jews in Bombay–and the Chabad Centre at Nariman house as a Lubavitch Chassidic outreach centre has a prime and overarching aim of bringing non-bservant Jews back to Judaism, and providing a home-from-home for visiting observant Jews to find food and a place to pray and study. It is apparently off the beaten tourist track or the main city spots, so they would really have gone to a very great deal of trouble to find it and target it. It exists to attract Jews of all kinds–so why refer to it being a place for “Jews and Israelis”? It doesn’t provide any specific services to non-Jewish Israelis, any more than it does for other non-Jewish people.

One of the very few ransom calls the terrorists have made was made by an Israeli woman in the Chabad house who was forced to read out some demands–about the release of jihadi prisoners in Kashmir– by one of the gunmen. Why did the terrorists make that choice of hostage to do the call? It’s true that the terrorists went round the two major hotels they attacked calling for US and UK nationals to be handed over to them, and not Jews and/or Israelis. But they certainly seem to have had Jews in their sights, and to have gone to some trouble to single virtually the only Jewish organization in Mumbai. Very telling that they did not try to have a go at the Israeli consulate or whatever organization looks after El Al’s business etc. Jews, not just “zionists” and “Israelis” are the target.

This post by a rightist Israeli blogger stresses the obscurity of the site they chose to attack:

http://bogieworks.blogs.com/treppenwitz/2008/11/no-raised-eyebr.html

Although we don’t know which particular group did this operation, there is no jihadi terrorist organization which does not specifically proclaim Jews (alongside rotarians, masons, Christians, Hindus, gays) as an evil to be eliminated.

It fits with the BBC’s practice–they always edit out the bloodcurdling references to eliminating Jews when they summarize the latest proclamations put out by Al Qaeda and other Islamist jihadi terrorist groups. They also edit out the references to eliminating Hindus–who would have been the largest group in the gunsights of the terrorists at the train station.

The Israeli online newspapers are keeping up good coverage, though the lack of information about the occupants of the house looks ominous. This article suggests that the Chabad House could have been an accidental target, but since the terrorists didn’t pursue any other fugitives from the hotels they besieged, it’s hardly a convincing explanation.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1041731.html

Yesterday’s editions of the online Israeli press had articles suggesting that the attacks were intended to be reprisals/deterrents against the increasing co-operation between the Israeli and Indian governments, including sales of Israeli arms. Those seem not to be up today. But if that was their aim, they’d have had Israeli targets to have chosen … if anything, Chabad Lubavitch is an American Jewish organization. Its headquarters are in NY, not Tel Aviv or Jerusalem.

haaretz is reporting that all the hostages are dead.

‘you wake up in the morning knowing nothing about a subject, and by the afternoon you’ve written an article in the tone of someone who’s been studying the issue for years.

welcome to the world of richard symour.’

To be fair to him, that’s pretty much the way you have to be if you want a career in the SWP.

SWP-Muslim Brotherhood love: A fantasy parable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWOEHFUFnic

“‘you wake up in the morning knowing nothing about a subject, and by the afternoon you’ve written an article in the tone of someone who’s been studying the issue for years.”

Not to detract from this point, but as a longtime newspaper editor and former radio public affairs researcher, you could say the same thing about journalists (ie reporters) in general. Which is why they ALWAYS fare poorly when trying to do “gotcha” interviews with genuine experts in their fields.

A close friend’s son who was staying at the Taj Mahal hotel has been very seriously injured.

Meanwhile I can’t help thinking about the challenge to arrange the following words into a well-known phrase or saying:

Bliar, Dubya, Iraq, Mumbai, CIA, Mossad, Jews warned to stay away from.

Because we will, of course, be hearing them ad nauseam in the years to come.

We’ve had it already. Mossad carried out these attacks, dontchaknow?

I have just listened to the Sky news commentary. The Indian newsman described the rejoicing of the crowd around the Chabad house when they wrongly thought it was all over, because he said, there is so much love in this city, where all peopled are welcome. f off the cynics who will say this is a sentimental and untrue- it brought tears to my eyes- the joy I witnessed was not just celebrating a chauvinist victory of their armed forces. And then the main Sky commenter made the same point as the linked article from Judy’s post, that people in the area are deeply shocked as they are very aware that this did not happen in a visibly Jewish area; that it is one unremarkable house, one Jewish family; as the commenter put it- it is this singling out which resonates deeply with the people in the area, who have stayed home from work and just kept a vigil around the house.

That, ami, is because they are suffering from false consciousness.

I don’t really have a horse in the race. I don’t have any particular reason to highlight Jews in this situation, suffice to say they were targeted along with Hindus, in a rather despicable act.

The phrase “rather despicable” is Benjamin in a nutshell, isn’t it?

And I hate to bang on about Benjamin for the nth time, but the strange thing is that while he seems capable of reacting like a normal, red-blooded human being to Chinese government repression, he turns bloodless and jaded when it comes to other outrages.

Too right, Linda Grant, too right.

Ami

Contrast that, with this charming comment in today’s Times:

T. K. Bhat, who lives close to the Chabad house, said: “It could be that the attitudes of the Chabad, which gives the sense of an elite club for Jews alone, is part of what provoked the terrorists to target them for the attack.”

Gosh where have we heard this before, its an international “Jewish” conspiracy! Do these people think we arrived on the last potato boat? Or Oil boat? Or banana boat?

Maybe it’s an Islamic counter-conspiracy….. People have been killed in Mumbai, who cares about religion.

David A:

“The train station is, from my experience, not a place where you expect to find Western tourists at all. They tend to travel by air. It is, however, a place where you can reliably expect to find Indians of all religions. Even at that time of night, when the sleeper trains leave for other cities.”

Someone who was very familiar with Mumbai about 15 years ago, has also told me that a lot of local people actually bed down in there in a large, open plan entrance hall. And there was an interview with a lady from a local homeless charity, who said they had lost some of their people in the attack on the station.

The rejoicing outside the Jewish centre, when the crowd thought all the occupants had been saved, only to face crushing disappointment, was very bittersweet.

I think what we are seeing is a very well planned attack. They have gone after targetted groups, Jewish, Western visitors, but they also tried to inflict horrific casualties on a concourse full of defenceless local folk at the railway station, and they tried to shoot up the children’s hospital. They wanted high attrition, and they seem to have got it.

It all leads me to the conclusion that whoever planned this assault was trying to provoke an outbreak of inter-communal violence, in addition to the direct bloodshed.

The terrorists have been well trained, they have ample guns and ammunition, and their explosive charges are made from RDX. It is highly unlikely that they did this without any connivance from Pakistan.

But the point is that amidst such a vast city with a tiny Jewish presence, Jews and other innocent people were targeted and murdered by terrorists. This is a shameful act of terror and the poignancy of the targeting of Jews is both shocking and tragically not too surprising. Wherever there have been acts of terror in recent times, Jewish people have been part of the plot. My heart reaches out to the victims of this appalling act. The nonsense burped out by the Left (sic) is horrifying and I guess yet another manifestation of the anachronistic paradigm that influences their way of seeing.

Contrast that with this charming comment : oh lord there’s got to be one. Or more.

We should immediately give over the entirety of India to Islam. Land for peace and appeasement ALWAYS works.

And oh, I blame the Jews.

Amongst islamists specifically and many muslims generally anti-semitism is as rife as it was in pre ww2 europe

This is why these islamists attacked a jewis centre, pure racism

only an idit and a fool would not see this, the pc facsinardoes at the bbc see this, but try to ignore it

This is like the Munich Olympics, and Lenin has missed it.

what terrible events, killing the poor at a railway station, attacking a Chabad House simply to kill Jews…

it is not surprising to see that the particular Lenin’s Tomb comments box also has a pointer to the work of Gilad Atzmon, renowned anti-Jewish racist….

This is place lenin will be speaking at…
http://www.ihr.org/

Just as I expected all along.

While Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg, his wife Rivka and four other hostages were murdered by the terroirsts, the Holtzbergs two year old son, Moshe survived when he was rescued by his nanny. Rivka Holtzberg’s parents are flying from Israel to take custody of their grand child. See http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3630300,00.html for entire story. Tragically, Moshe will not be the only child to have lost one or both parents due to this terrorst atrocity.

‘This is like the Munich Olympics, and Lenin has missed it.’

Except that Munich was a case of Palestinian terrorists murdering Israeli athletes, and this is a case of non-Palestinian Muslim terrorists murdering non-Israeli Jews.

It’s a case of murderous anti-Semitism of a type that has completely transcended the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Terrifying.

He must really hate the left to write a whole book slagging them off.

On one level I feel sorry for him. He’s stuck in the colonial era where he thinks global politics is a struggle against Anglo Saxon racist imperialism. He hasn’t come to terms with the modern world and its challenges, nor the fact that the west is now the least racist part of the world that has the most multi racial societies. Instead he’d rather pretend nothing has changed since the 1900s. It’s sad in a way.

mike, I don’t think it’s that. it’s rather the case of an opportunistic individual who found himself a market niche… mediocre as he seems to be, nobody would even notice him if it wasn’t for the way he filled that niche…

opportunists are characterized by a total lack of moral values.

If it’s intended to incite intercommunal violence and so on, how could that be achieved by massacring Jews? And seeking out Westerners for murder would probably turn up the odd Jewish person as well.

The name “Deccan jihadists” sounds phony. I bet it was made up as a kind of cover. I would say these guys have been militarily trained for the operation and might well be linked to Pakistan’s notorious ISI. The Pakistani government exists at the whim of the generals as far as I know.

I understand the attackers appeared to have a thorough knowledge of the layout of the Taj hotel, and it would be remarkable if they were able to target Nariman House knowing it was a Jewish outreach centre without some Bombay connection. Inside men will be the next target of the anti-terror police.

I am glad the little boy survived.

Just like the other Moses.

And these events are very reminiscent of Munich in 1972.

Where is the voice of the majority of Iraqis and Afghans in lenin’s book? Does he give a voice to the opinions of those unpeople in refugee camps in Darfur or the Congo? Do their views on intervention matter, at all?

And there lies the problem for lenin. He can’t claim to be on the side of emancipation when he consistently ignores the views of third world peoples because they don’t fit the evil whitey westerner and his terrible racism narrative. Don’t these pesky people know they’re not supposed to need our help?

It’s pretty cruel and racist if you think about it. People should perish in war zones and refugee camps just so lenin can live in his 19th century bubble.

Where is the voice of the majority of Iraqis and Afghans in lenin’s book? Does he give a voice to the opinions of those unpeople in refugee camps in Darfur or the Congo? Do their views on intervention matter, at all?

Are they members of the vangaurd? If not I’m afraid they only exist and suffer in order to build a better future for Lenin and his chums.

Another irony of this horrendous massacre: one of the victims murdered in the Chabad Centre was Rabbi Leibish Teitelbaum. He was in Bombay as a supervisor for kosher food being manufactured locally for international export. He was a member of the Satmar chassisic dynasty, a cousin of one of the leaders of the two rival factions of Satmar now. The Satmar chassidim are strongly anti-Zionist, though they do not join mainstream anti-Zionist campaigns as the Neturei Karta do. Satmar are one of the biggest Chassidic groups in Stamford Hill. The first Satmar Rebbe, Joel Teitelbaum (died 1979) regarded the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah as a “ma’aseh Soton” (the deed of Satan). He forbade his followers to visit the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

I am glad the little boy survived.

Just like the other Moses.

John P, I heard a moving analogy read by Michael Savage, of The Savage Nation about the story of Moses and how he was saved from slaughter. As Savage is a Jew with a religious conscience he stated that he felt somehow this Moses would grow up with a spiritual ability to heal. Perhaps he is special in some way. There is alsready a fund for him in the USA to pay for his bringing-up. It is absolutely true that his parents were poor, much like any missionaries, although they weren’t there to convert anyone.

Its interesting you made some connection too.

And these events are very reminiscent of Munich in 1972.

Just like post-Munich let us hope that mystery explosions take place so they know they won’t be getting away with it.

I can even see the USA bombing a Pakistani training camp or two.

Mike, your 1.42am post earlier spoke about Seymour speaking at the Institute of Historical Review. Can you confirm this? It’s just that there is a Socialist History group which meets at the Institute of Historical Research in Senate House. The latter is of unimpeachable reputation and does honest work in co-ordinating academic historical research in the UK. They are sometimes confused with the Holocaust Deniers in the ‘Institute of Historical Review’, which is unfortunate.

Seymour is a thorough twat - as his pontification on this tragedy shows - but I honestly cannot see him cooperating with the ‘Institute of Historical Review’. I suggest you confirm this and ensure there’s no misunderstanding.

Another story from various news media is the reference to the Jews as ‘hostages.
However we know that the little baby was smeared with blood having been rescued very early on.
So it seems to me that the Jews were MURDERED ALMOST IMMEDIATELY by the islamist killers after they were captured not held as ‘hostages’ as the press would have us believe.
How many more massacres before the west understands that Islam has always been at war with us and all these genocides are merely a continuation of the status quo going back 1500 years.
there is no equitable solution as so many in the past have understood.

Munich 1972
the sequel was that Germany and I think italy were willing to free their captured terrorists at the drop of a hat, this must have given Arafat the secure knowledge that terrorism certainly pays in weak western countries.
I doubt if the Indians will repeat the same mistakes if an Indian Airlines plane is hijacked to secure the relase of the captured terrorists.

“Another irony of this horrendous massacre: one of the victims murdered in the Chabad Centre was Rabbi Leibish Teitelbaum. He was in Bombay as a supervisor for kosher food being manufactured locally for international export. He was a member of the Satmar chassisic dynasty, a cousin of one of the leaders of the two rival factions of Satmar now. The Satmar chassidim are strongly anti-Zionist, though they do not join mainstream anti-Zionist campaigns as the Neturei Karta do. Satmar are one of the biggest Chassidic groups in Stamford Hill. The first Satmar Rebbe, Joel Teitelbaum (died 1979) regarded the establishment of a Jewish state before the coming of the Messiah as a “ma’aseh Soton” (the deed of Satan). He forbade his followers to visit the Western Wall in Jerusalem.”

Another of the victims of this despicable atrocity was Bentzion Chroman from Bat Yam, who was also in India as a supervisor of Kosher food. He belongs to the Chasidic group Bobov, who are Non-Zionists.

Affiliation is of no concern to the bestial, inhuman savages who killed so many innocent people in Mumbai, may they rest in peace.

May HaShem bring comfort to the families of those killed, may He avenge the blood of the fallen, and may the shelter of his peace spread over all the dwellers of our world.

sackcloth and ashes, the situation remains murky.

This is like the Munich Olympics, and Lenin has missed it.

It may seem like that if you are only focused on Jewish victims. As I say, I don’t have a horse in the race, so I simply point out that the number of non-Jewish victims far outweigh the Jewish number, and those targeted were not exclusively Jewish (far from it), and it was not nationalistic terrorist act targeting the Israeli govt… etc etc…

So, not really like Munich then. What an inaccurate comparison.

Amazing that, after terrorism in Mumbai killing about 200 people, the vast majority of which were non-Jews (2.5% of the victims were Jews), the only person deemed fit to photographically commemorate the carnage at HP is a Rabbi.

Remarkable.

“Seymour is a thorough twat”

yes, he is

” - as his pontification on this tragedy shows - but I honestly cannot see him cooperating with the ‘Institute of Historical Review’. I suggest you confirm this and ensure there’s no misunderstanding.”

To be fair it is on his home page - it is the socialist one: IH research, not review.

Following on from my post at 2.07am, I urge HP to post the photographs of other folk killed in the attacks; seeing only a Rabbi’s photograph posted in relation to carnage in India which took mainly Indian and (I presume Hindu) lives is quite bizarre.

If the purpose was to kill evil depraved foreigners there was an awful lot of “collateral”. As of 29/11 there was about 200 dead according to India Times where of 26 was foreigners. The figure is expected to rise and probably is that the share of locals is rising. The share of local among wounded is much worse.

The 26 foreigners killed included eight Israelis, five Americans, two French nationals, two Australians, two Canadians, a German, a Japanese, a British Cypriot, an Italian, a Singaporean, a Thai and a Mauritian.
India Times

Some leftist blog covering of the event is somewhat strange they move the focus from islamists/ideology to Muslims in general, albeit under the pretence to defend them. Why moving the focus to some fuzzy muslim collective.

Why is the people who happen to live in parts of the world where Islam is the dominant religion foremost and predominantly labeled with a religious label as they collectively was some sort of religious animals. Muslim is a religious label as Christian and so forth not an ethnic label. No one else is so hardwired to an religious label as people who happen to have been born where Islam is dominant and it seems like islamists and racists is a like happy that it is so.

Benjamin,

You have a point. This is a terrible tragedy for the Indian people. And dare I day it, for Muslim all over the world. Yet again the name and practice of their religion has been hijacked by a small few to be carried through the mud associated with psychopathic murders who claim to be acting in their name (although one wonders why so many psychopaths find a home in Islam) and, more obtusely, in the name of Allah. But I digress.

Yes this was an Indian tragedy, and we should all commemorate, morn and offer consolation to all the people of Mumbai.

But you also miss the point. Of the 200 dead people murder in an Indian city by this act of wanton Terrorism, a small percentage of the Indian population of the city was murdered, yet almost the entire organized Jewish community of the city was murdered. Further, shameful as it is for me to have to explain this to you, to murder Indians in an Indian city is as easy as picking up a gun and pulling the trigger. To murder tourist in an Indian city is slightly harder, as you first need to find the hotel they are staying in. However, to actually find and seek out a Jewish synagogue while, also, in the act of indiscriminant shooting….that sends a message! That takes planning and intent. While the terrorist wanted to kill people, they also had a very special point of wanting to murder Jews!

So Benjamin, you are right. This is not exclusively a Jewish tragedy, and we would be remiss to imagine that it is. It is above all an Indian tragedy. But Benjamin, only an utter cunt like you and Seymor would imagine that it is not a Jewish Tragedy as well.

But Benjamin, only an utter cunt like you and Seymor would imagine that it is not a Jewish Tragedy as well.

You kept it on an even keel until that outburst. Of course its a Jewish tragedy too - I was just pointing out that bizarre situation of website only posting a picture of a Rabbi in response to a terrorist attack on India that killed far more Indian Hindus, and folk who were not Jewish. It’s very odd. How can it be explained?

Please note I am not saying that the picture of the Rabbi should not be posted. It’s just that this is predominantly an Indian trajedy, taking place in India - but we don’t even have an Indian face.

I was just pointing out that bizarre situation of website only posting a picture of a Rabbi in response to a terrorist attack on India that killed far more Indian Hindus,….

Benjamin, in the context of the purpose of the post we are all commenting on, that some areshole, called Seymour, tries to justify the murder of 100’s of people in the context of ani-imperialism, and IGNORES the anti-Jewish side plot of the attack, it is neither bizarre nor unusual that this blog focuses on one family delibrately targeted in this scenario. Benjamin, the Holtzberg family, and their guests were delibratly sort out. A rather unique endevour in the circumstance. They were not murdered for being in the wrong place, as most of the other victims were, the murders went to them, and murdered them. It is speculation, but it seems to me that the two year old Moshe, only lived because he was asleep when it all started, and was unnoticed after he woke up. The bravery of the boy nanny (Sandra’) should also be acknowledged.

If not for those circumstances the whole family would have been eradicated.

John P, I heard a moving analogy read by Michael Savage, of The Savage Nation about the story of Moses and how he was saved from slaughter. As Savage is a Jew with a religious conscience he stated that he felt somehow this Moses would grow up with a spiritual ability to heal. Perhaps he is special in some way.

I too think he may be special in some way.

Fionn, thanks for that. The confusion between the Senate House IHR and the Holocaust deniers has been made in the past (which makes me wonder whether the latter deliberately chose their name for that reason, so as to give them false respectability).

There are plenty of genuine reasons for despising Seymour (as his posturing over this foul atrocity shows), but I still think that we need to be careful about attributing to people views that they do not hold. Seymour may be slack with his research and intellectually dishonest; that doesn’t mean his detractors should be.

Of course, I will be doing a counter talk in the next room about the New Anti Imperialism.

The new anti imperialists believe that oppressed brown people who call for western assistance don’t know whats good for them. Even if they are dying in a refugee camp or fleeing war, they should be slaughtered. The new anti imperialists believe it’s their job to side with the minority against the majority of unpeople in third world to serve the wider cause of defeating capitialist whitey in the west.

They’re a nasty lot the new anti imperialists.

On this thread at BBC 5Live http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbfivelive/F2148565?thread=6113248 you should seek out the piece of shit called ‘awakeHuman’ and note how the BBC supports their right to Holocaust Denial. The deleted comment (the ONLY deleted comment) states

….so 9 Israeli dead out of 170+, hardly a crime againt the Jews or Israeli, not is it?….

The majority of this animal’s posts are of an Islamist/Palestinian nature. Draw your own conclusions.

According to this report (also at Jihad Watch) the Chabad victims were tortured before being killed in ways even too horrific for the doctor to describe http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-doctors-shocked-at-hostagess-torture.htm

Why is the UN silent on Mumbai? http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023718.php#more

Benjamin, in the context of the purpose of the post we are all commenting on, that some areshole, called Seymour, tries to justify the murder of 100’s of people in the context of ani-imperialism, and IGNORES the anti-Jewish side plot of the attack

So it’s interesting to note that’s how HP reacts to such a tragedy - which has mainly affected Indians in India - with a post on the Jewish element on it, one small component of the tragedy (in terms of its overall size). There’s a picture of a Rabbi, no photographic recognition of any Indian victim, and then the absurd and narrow view that the attack is like another Munich - patent nonsense. There is an exclusive focus on the injustice done to Jews, and their suffering, even in the quite obvious context of greater killing of Indians. Why is that?

There is an exclusive focus on the injustice done to Jews, and their suffering, even in the quite obvious context of greater killing of Indians. Why is that?

Because HP is really a Chabad. The main men, the one’s who run this blog are mostly Jewish(ish) as are many of the posters. Hence, antisemitism features here and draws antisemites (ahem). As a non-Jew Benjamin, you are welcome to chow down and take part in traditional Jewish hospitality until such times as you attack your hosts.

I feel you might explode!

If you care to read how the bodies of these Jews were mutilated before being killed then I submit that even Internationally its THE story within this whole tragedy.

I’m sure, for your delight, you can find an Islamist website where you can see photos of the Mujahadden and you can raise a glass or two as you wish.

‘As for targetting Jews, it is very rare in India. ‘

True but in Pakistan on the other hand, where have all the Baghdadi Jews gone?

The government was astonished to discover that in the census before last 10 people who actually worked in government admitted to being jewish.

They have disappeared from the current census.

And the Hindus, and the Sikhs whatever happened to them in Pakistan?

Lahore now home to Jihadi bootcamps was 50% Hndu and Sikh prior to partition.

The total loss of the Hindu Sindhi homeland and culture is one of the great tragedies of India.

Pogroms against Hindu Sindhis were organised by muslim refugees from India

The Hindu population of the geographical area that became Pakistan at partition was between 15-20% as of the 1998 census caste Hindus are about 1.6%.

The last Hindu Temple in Lahore was recently bulldozed for a commercial development.

There are about 20,000 Sikhs left in Pakistan an Islamic and Islamicising nation that has increasingly abandoned any pretence of religious freedom and persecutes all religious minorities with varying degrees of political opportunism and severity, such as via the Muslim only blaphemy laws (all Amadiyya Muslims have been declared apostates and heretics and can be and are imprisoned for actually writing down words from the Koran.

Until 2002 religious minorities were only allowed to vote in national elections, along confessional lines, for particular approved minority candidates.

Religious minorities in Pakistan have zero political influence (unlike the powerful political force of Muslim votes in India) and almost no representation at any official level of Pakistani society.

In 2007 however the first Sikh in Pakistan’s history joined the army and another Sikh was appointed to a bus sub inspector position in Lahore (I am not joking)

Of course such elementary demographic, religious, and social and political observations are quite beyond the capacity of Richard Seymour, which is why his purported analysis is hysterical anti-Indian propaganda.

The census data before and after partition is readily available and if he were capable of actually reading and understanding primary sources he would not have produced such a woeful article seeking to explain the atrocities in Mumbai (and these are the most recent of several) as a result of Kashmir/Hindu fascism/Indian state repression of Muslims.

Really his article is so astonishingly peurile and poorly researched that only his SWP and Islamist comrades might be expected to nod sagely in agreement to such bilge as;

‘’’’‘However, the Indian state has too much of an interest in demonising all Islamist groups as a means toward repressing Muslims in general for its claims to be taken at face value.’

‘and LeT is a very different kind of organisation. It was funded from the start by the Pakistani state to facilitate its control over the Kashmiri struggle for independence, which emerged through years of torture and murder by the Indian state’

All of this bodes extremely ominiously for the future of the world’s largest democracy. Every filthy reactionary and pogromist will be strengthened, while the more violent jihadi groups will probably expand under a wave of state terror and communal violence. The only hope is in the Left organising a coalition to stop this horrible political logic in its tracks’’’’’’’’

Seymour could have easily discovered that India’s 150 million Muslims are at (13.5%) of the population are to be found in almost every town and village in India and form the demographic majorities in most of the old walled cities.

He could have discovered a little about the ethnic cleansing of the Hindu pandits from their ancient homeland of Jammu and Kashmir (and increasing Muslim dominance in Buddhist Ladakh).

He also could have quickly realised that as Muslims are about 17% of the population of Mumbai opening fire in a railway station has about a 1 in 6 chance of hitting a Muslim.

Rather than his glib little rush through the 1990s and the illegal (as declared by the Indian Supreme court) and detestable destruction of the Babri Masjid and the subsequent communal violence (and that later in Gujerat) as the sole manifestation of communalism in India he might have stopped to consider to what extent Hindu chauvinism is a reaction to the aggressive Hindu persecutions by state agents in Pakistan and Bangladesh as well as Pakistan’s proxies in Kashmir.

He might have considered the Pakistani army genocide in the 1971 Bangladesh war of independence, aided and abetted by Jammat i islami and other Islamist militias, the slaughter of Hindu students at Dhaka university and the bulldozing of the Ramna Kali Mandir Temple.

In short he could have seen how the Hindu population of Afghanistan, Kashmir, and Pakistan have been almost entirely extirpated in the decades following 1947 and how persecution of Hindus in Bangladesh (3/4 of the 10 million refugees following the 1971 war and the majority of the 3 million dead were Hindu) continues with land seizures, arson, rape and forced conversion of Hindu women carried out by militias associated with the Bangladesh Nationalist party and its coalition partners jamaat i Islami.

An honest observer would see that Hindu nationalism is at least in part precipitated by a Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim nationalism/Islamism in the Indian subcontinent as well as the ethno-religious nature of the Indian Muslim population and its increasing birthrate.

Any demographer could explain that higher birthrates are associated with higher rates of poverty and lower levels of educational and economic advancement but the causal relationship works both ways.

A biased and reactionary apologist for jihadism and Islamism such as that held by Seymour is instantly revealed by the division of India into Muslims and the Indian State and Hindu fascists and reactionaries.

Well the Indian state is a secular democracy (unlike its Hindu persecuting neighbours) but it is not infinitely elastic where Hindus must always be secular (if they are religious nationalists they are fascists) but Muslims must never be.

To expect a quid pro quo of secular Muslim accommodation to a democratic society in which they are granted equal rights and are increasing in population (hence electoral strength) is apparently to oppress them.

Interestingly before the last census many Indian Muslim activists had argued that their underdevelopment (caused by the Indian state) was such that the population was decreasing.

Well that would be nice for Seymour if it were true but it is not. And not all the reasons for comparative Muslim underdevelopment are caused by Hindu nationalist capitalist ruling elites.

Particularly repellent in this thread is the appearance of Johng (John Game) a comrade of Richard Seymour (aka ‘lenin’) in the Socialist Workers Party and co-collaborator, colluder and coalitionist with Muslim Brotherhood Islamists and apologists for jihadism.

His tolerance of and approval of such a misinformed, biased Muslim propagandist anti-Indian screed is noxious in its apology for such a deliberately cruel and obscene theatre of communalist provocation seen these last days in Mumbai.

It is a crude betrayal of the lives of all Indians for a deluded sense of a leftist position on this atrocity (not one recognisable on the Indian left.
John Game is course tutor in International Relations for the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy (CISD) at the School of Oriental and African …
http://www.cisd.soas.ac.uk/index.asp-Q-
I cannot see how his influence on perceptions of this atrocity, is anything but malign.
He cannot be of any use to India at all, rather he seems to wish to undermine and subvert its secular democracy.
India has no damn use for purported ‘anti-colonialists’ who seem to maintain an astonishingly Raj era assumption that they know what is best for India and the Indians
After all Indian authorities, in a post –colonial world in granting visas to British academics visiting India are perfectly entitled to consider. On the merits of the case, whether the person making the application is actually a undesirable alien.

I rather like the idea of a ‘John Game what use for India?’ quiz.

I’ll kick it off ; recycle him and use him as a bike stand.

Maven,

I am not in the least bit against folk pointing out the Jewish deaths and suffering in this terrorist attack.

However, it bemuses me that the response to a terrorist attack in India (in which scores of Indians died) is an almost exclusive focus on the five Jews that died (and a British blogger’s reaction/non-reaction to them), and the only picture posted is of a Rabbi.

Step back a bit: it’s most bizarre.

Benajamin,

I know that you are very slow on the uptake, but I will try this one more time.

This post is not about the events in India (Mumbai) per se. It is a comment on the failure of another individual (Seymour) to acknowledge that parts of the events that he (Seymour, henceforce known as the cunt) did not fit into his (the cunts) narrative of events. The specific targeting of one Jewish family was not a statement of anti-imperialism, irrespective of how skewed ones perception of reality is. Rather than acknowledge that this incident didn’t conform precisely to his world view, the cunt ignored its occurance and significance. Further, true to alleged form, the cunt failed to condem the murdering arseholes who purpetrated this atrocity, rather the cunt sought to rationalize their actions. As the cunt is alleged to have done on previous occasions.

Now you, the lesser fool, failed to grasp the intent of the post which you are commenting about, and seem to be upset that the post and this blog ignores the non-jewish victims of the tragedy. It doesn’t. Since the post is tangential to the event, an observation on an editorial, rather than an editorial itself.

Since the post is tangential to the event, an observation on an editorial, rather than an editorial itself.

I see. So, in the face of a large terrorist attack in India killing of scores of Indian folk, we have a single post on a “tangent” - focusing almost exclusively on a minor British blogger’s reaction (or non-reaction) to the attack on the Jewish Centre, furnished by a single picture of a Rabbi.

Oh, and saying c**t repeatedly does not strengthen your argument.

So, in the face of a large terrorist attack in India killing of scores of Indian folk, we have a single post on a “tangent” -

No turd for brains, we have a post about a blogger who identifies himself as anti-imperialist who is aligning himself with absolute fascist dressed up in another guise and contorting himself into all sorts of knots rather than acknowledge the hypocrisy of his position.

As for you, we have an imbecile who is completely devoid of good taste (”I have no horse in this race”) and completely unable to comprehend the nuance of an argument.

Thirdly, while I acknowledge the legitimacy of your point that the tragedy of Holtzberg family is a small one in the context of the greater massacre by barbarian Islamist terrorist, you completely fail to acknowledge the unique and very troubling nature of those barbarians specifically targeting the jewish community of Mumbai! Think about it, the terrorist did shoot up a public train station, a crowded hotel and they went out of their way to murder a Rabbi, his wife and their (Jewish) guest! They sought out the jews separately and distinctly from their other wanton acts of murderous behaviour. Not mentioning the recent evidence of cruel torture, the occupants of the Chabad house were murder right at the outset! There was never any intention for any of them to survive.

Yes Benjamin you are right, a murderer walking down the streets of Mumbai did and will kill 100s of Indians! This by itself is a tragedy worthy of comment and commiseration. No doubt. But when the terrorist break into someone house because of who they are, and what they represent (Judaism in this case), the terror is of a entirely different level.

Calling Seymour a cunt has no impact on the argument at all. It merely acknowledges the cunt for what he is. An adjunctive.

I see. So, in the face of a large terrorist attack in India killing of scores of Indian folk, we have a single post on a “tangent” - focusing almost exclusively on a minor British blogger’s reaction (or non-reaction) to the attack on the Jewish Centre, furnished by a single picture of a Rabbi.

Obviously there has been a success in educating you over this. But is this how you repay us with badly soiled sheets?

There was a thread on the Terrorist Attacks in Mumbai several posts down.

I think you are offended by a photo of an orthodox Jew because you’d rather have a real one to abuse.

Benjamin you are being revoltingly insensitive as well as incredibly dense in your response to this.

Are you really one of those people who on going to Auschwitz, on learning that Homosexuals and Gypsies were also exterminated, who inists that there were not so many of those killed as the main target of the Nazis were Jews?

In recognising the level of command and control, planning, training preparation, precision and execution of the terrifying details of the Jihadists slaughter of Innocents in Mumbai, you have to realise that the terrorists wen’t out of their way to target Jews.

This salient fact tells one everything about the violent, warped ideology of the Jihadists and gives the lie to any possible explanation that sees the atrocities as a direct consequence of purported Indian oppression of Muslims either in Kashmir, specifically or more generally through prejudice and discrimination towards the large Muslim minority in India.

Do you really not get It Benjamin?

Do we have to spell it out?

There is no possible rational way to blame Israel and Zionism for the communal situation in Kashmir or more widely in India.

Zionists do not encourage the greater fertility of Indian Muslims, or bulldoze Indian Mosques, or police and zone Indian cities to keep Muslims in poverty behind the old city walls.

And yet jews (a family) in Mumbai, were specifically targetted with great precision and cruelty for exemplary punishment and brutality by Jihadis who were otherwise content to shoot at and throw grenades in a rather more random attack on their other targets.

Why?

Why Benjamin why?

If you don’t know then like Richard Seymour you havn’t been listening to what Islamists and Jihadis have been saying about their motivations and beliefs, perfectly clearly, for some time now.

You would rather substitute your own pet notions as to the causes of their actions failing to see the pure anti-semitic murderous hatred that is a unifying and animating core of their creed of global jihad, even when they go to so much trouble to act out the ideological script of their Jihadi show, live for prime time world TV.

And yet jews (a family) in Mumbai, were specifically targetted with great precision and cruelty for exemplary punishment and brutality by Jihadis who were otherwise content to shoot at and throw grenades in a rather more random attack on their other targets.

I agree this is something that needs discussing and highlighting. I just wish you could post some other pictures as well, to recognise other victims too.

I think you are offended by a photo of an orthodox Jew because you’d rather have a real one to abuse.

That’s rather strained. The murder of the Jews is an absolute tragedy. I am just saying that other folks faces should be shown too.

There was a thread on the Terrorist Attacks in Mumbai several posts down.

That’s true. Must have missed that one.