Harry’s Place

Egyptian Cleric Hassan Abu Al-Ashbal Calls on President-Elect Obama to Convert to Islam, and Threatens: We Have People Who are Eager to Die

Yet another ranty Islamic cleric. Where is the context for this? Is this guy state-sponsored? Is he appearing on the Egyptian equivalent of Thought for the Day? Is he the Egyptian version of the Archbishop of Canterbury? Or that bloke in Christian Voice? or Ian Paisley? Is he a mainstream voice or a fringe nutter? He certainly is not doing good PR for Egypt, which is a big receiver of American aid.

Whoever has not converted this site to the use of a preview button, I beseech you to convert now. Or else.

Is it a fear that Obama’s election means that he and his fellow clerics in the Muslim world soon will have a much harder time whipping up and playing on grievance and resentment against the US?

I’d have to say no.

What’s bugging Abu is the knowledge that Obama was born to a Muslim father, but yet calls himself Christian.

It’s the apostasy, and the fear that apostasy may resonate with doubting Muslims, creating yet more apostsates

And as for whipping up hatred? That can be done at will.

KB Player, Al-Nas TV is a religious channel in Egypt. Considering the nature of the Egyptian regime, I imagine it is either a government channel or operates with the approval of the government.

Al-Nas also provides a platform for Sheikh Muhammad Nassar, a preacher for the Egyptian Ministry of Religious Endowment.

And as for whipping up hatred? That can be done at will.

Judging by most of your comments here, you seem to think so. However I don’t think you’re as successful at it as you might hope.

“he and his fellow clerics in the Muslim world soon will have a much harder time whipping up and playing on grievance and resentment against the US?” I sincerely hope so. The best way to make this harder, of course, would be for the US to stop causing grievances and resentment in the “Muslim” world. Stop doing things like this in other words.

I think you’re missing something here Gene.

From memory I recall that Ahmadinejad invited Bush and Merkel - among others - to convert to Islam a couple of years ago.

I don’t know enough about it, but if the invitation to convert is rejected does this become a justification for jihad?

Obama tried Islam at a young age and rejected it. One of his smarter decisions.

He is undoubtedly a Christian and I believe he carries a Madonna and Child lucky charm in his pocket (although he isn’t a Catholic)

My guess is that there is big disappointment in the Arab/Muslim World to discover that Obama is really a bit neo-con in his policies towards the Arab/Muslim World, as evidenced by the “Hands that rock his cradle” through his appointments.

I don’t know enough about it, but if the invitation to convert is rejected does this become a justification for jihad?

That’s only a fall-back if the other fifty reasons don’t make it!

Judging by most of your comments here, you seem to think so. However I don’t think you’re as successful at it as you might hope.

Is that the best you can do?

You wouldn’t survive on the even the margins of the Borsch-belt!

When writing comedy, the set-up and the punch-line should be separated by at least one line.

Spacing is the written version of pacing.

That’ll be ten dollars.

Silly threats, eh? I have some…

1) I will kill all the football players who are in this bibliotheque
2) I will kill all the FOX News Channel journalists who say the truth
3) I will kill [contributor] “A half truth is worse than a lie” if he/she/it tastes Seymour’s excrements and doesn’t ask more…
4) I will kill all the politicians who don’t kiss babies during electoral campaigns

Admiral John P., award yourself another set of campaign medals as you have been dissed by Gene.

If you so much as suggest that Obama’s hair is getting a little long - he will savage you with a dry one-liner.

You will soon get to the status of being ignored - like I am.

Feel blessed when you reach that position.

(I like Gene for many other things he says BTW. I’d love to get close and give him a hug! It saddens me to be estranged because I have a different opinion)

Whoever has not converted this site to the use of a preview button, I beseech you to convert now. Or else.

I’m convinced it’s deliberate now, KB. HP is doing it just to annoy the commentariat. The bastards! I say we spray-paint graffiti on the building housing their servers. :D

Hysteria is their stock in trade. Anything less is an insult upon Islam. Or something like that.

Oh, please, the Irie. Stop it. This point has been made hundred of times. Why don’t they respond with the same criminal fury against muslim commiting crimes against muslims?
And, by the way, to avoid such tragical event, what do you think US army should do? Leave Afghanistan to the Taliban?

“Oh, please, the Irie. Stop it.”

I can’t believe that dickhead still calls himself The Irie. Now that Richard Seymour gets called by his real name, can’t we do the same with The Irie - or Tarquin or whatever he’s really called?

Wow this is silly, you are proud that a major politician(that is muslim) will never be elected in an islamophobic society? It is like being proud that a jew will never win office Nazi germany, well no shit.

Obama would never commit political suicide, but I blame your bigoted society.

Flanker :D, two questions:

–Why did you add the :D to your name?

–What the hell are you talking about?

BTW, if you click on Flanker :D’s name, you get his absolutely devastating explanation of what he meant by his “Bush had his Reichstag burned” comment. I for one am speechless and breathless at what he managed to pull over on us. The joke’s sure on us!

And to think, the Bolivarian revolution is being built by such people.

that :D is a smily face meant to mock and torment my puppets, also more attention is brought to el linko by third parties.

As for #2… damnit you people really are below my level. If I did not hate you so much I would have moved on so long ago out of boredom…

The futility of trying to turn Obama to islam occurs because the religion islam (or any religion other than protestant christianity) is political suicide on a bigoted land. Something you are naively proud of. So hats off to the bigots and slime no muslim will ever lead you.

Flanker’s :D is an emoticon - something that children and people who download ringtones use - to link to and designate his delight at what he calls his “best troll ever”, in all his history of trolling this site.

Why he’s allowed to troll here I have no idea, but then I have no idea why he hasn’t been bludgeoned to death either.

Evenin’

Shaykh Hassan Abu’l-Ashbaal az-Zuhayry is an Egyptian Salafist scholar who studied under the famous Wahhaby cleric Shaykh Nasir-ud-Deen al-Albany. The prominent al-Nas scholar Shaykh Yaqub studied under him.

As far as al-Nas the channel is concerned, it is owned by the Saudi businessman Dr. Mansur bin Kadsah who also owns the channel ‘al-Khaleejiyyah’.

A quick survey of thescholars associated with the channel finds a who’s who of Saudi ulama past and present as well as modern conservative salafists. Shaykh Muhammad al-Ghazali, a massively influential Egyptian cleric, and prominent Muslim Brotherhood ideologue, is also listed.

Shaykh Hassan Abu’l-Ashbaal az-Zuhayry does not appear daily on the channel unlike the salafy triumvirate of Shaykhs Muhammad Hasan, Muhammad Husayn Yaqoob and Abu Ishaq al-Huwayny, but he often presents scholarly programmes on hadith, his own specialism within the Islamic sciences.

According to these two articles (Arabic), al-Nas is considered influential amongst 70% of the Egyptian populace, reaching all strata of society. The channels main protagonists have all in some way been involved with the emerging salafist da’wah movement in Egypt over the past 10 years.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=ArticleA_C&cid=1209357345783&pagename=Zone-Arabic-Daawa%2FDWALayout

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=ArticleA_C&cid=1218386148093&pagename=Zone-Arabic-Daawa%2FDWALayout

If I did not hate you so much I would have moved on so long ago out of boredom…

No, it’s your glaringly obvious personality disorder that’s stopped you from fucking off to where you might be hated slightly less.

Sorry, I read it at first as Wanker :D

My apologies to specsavers everywhere

Well you dolts have no-one to blame but yourselves, It was all science:

ad hominem obssesion against yours truly
+ conspiracy theorist witchhunting.
= a devastating comedy

The only art behind it was keeping deliberately quiet and seeing pot stir itself.

Think of me as your teacher who just taught you a valuable lesson: its the message not the messanger… idiots.

PS I even entrapped David T on the last day, pure gold.

John P;

Obama was born to an atheist father. Obama Sr was raised as a Muslim but had converted to atheism before he’d met the mother.

@fwanker: Reichstag!

Flanker’s :D is an emoticon - something that children and people who download ringtones use

Well I guess that’s me told then. :D

Strikes me as a bit snobbish though. I’m neither a child nor do I own a cellphone. It’s just a way to quickly indicate the commenter is grinning or smiling. I notice graphic emoticons are allowed in the Arts section of HP. Plenty of smart people there.

An emoticon to quickly indicate that one was trapped under rubble, that would be useful.

Flanker’s :D is an emoticon - something that children and people who download ringtones use - to link to and designate his delight at what he calls his “best troll ever”, in all his history of trolling this site.

Oh, I thought he had embarked upon a new career as a Rap Artiste. You know, “Flanker D is in da (antiimperialist) house!”

” I notice graphic emoticons are allowed in the Arts section of HP. Plenty of smart people there.”

Oh Fuck

and no they are not.

Anyway, I will limit my serious comments on this subject to a mere observation that is undoubtedly An Ecumenical Matter.

Hell. I thought Flanker :D was a parody of the old Flanker. Damn damn damn.

Flanker = cunt

Fact

Oh Fuck

and no they are not.

Yes. They are.

Considering the nature of the Egyptian regime, I imagine it is either a government channel or operates with the approval of the government.

al-Nas is owned by the Saudi businessman Dr. Mansur bin Kadsah, who owns another satellite channel, Khaleejiyyah.

The channel provides a voice for Egypt’s emerging salafist movement: Shaykh Hassan Abu’l-Ashbaal is a former student of the late renowned hadith scholar Shaykh Nasir ud-Deen al-Albani. He, along with the channel’s principal TV-propagandists Shaykhs Muhammad Hasaan Yaaqoob, Mahmoud al-Misry, Muhammad Hasaan and Abu Ishaaq al-Huwayny, provide religious legitimacy to a popular channel that also hosts teleshopping and religious music videos.

An emoticon to quickly indicate that one was trapped under rubble, that would be useful.

Ha! That would make a funny cartoon. A hand protruding from under a pile of rubbish typing on a laptop.

Two scholarly views on salafism with the emphasis on Egypt:

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/Article.asp?ID=17323&SectionID=0

http://islamists2day-e.blogspot.com/2008/06/salafists-ascendant-in-arab-world.html

Thanks for the information, Imam.

BTW, Imam, do you have any thoughts on the effect of Obama’s election in the Muslim world? Will it make it harder for radical clerics to stir up anger against the US?

Fair enough. My postings weren’t exactly on topic.

As far as Obama and clerical antipathy are concerned, I really couldn’t say. What those in the West seem to forget is that, whilst Muslims claim (and this is borne out by scripture) they are all considered ontologically the same by their god, there is a definite social hierarchy in the Muslim world. Take the Middle East:

1) Arabs from Saudi and the Emirates, Kuwait etc.

2) Oman, Yemen.

3) Egypt, the Levant, Iraq.

4) The Maghreb

5) The so-called ‘black’ Muslims od Sudan, Somalia, Djibouti etc.

Muslims from SEAsia probably fall below ‘black’ Muslims on this list and those from East Asia even lower.

Don’t you think, despite his ‘racial’ differences to GWB and his relative popularity here vis-a-vis him, the fact that he’s an ‘apostate’ and his Dad was Kenyan will make a difference to Arabs? I think it does. In Egypt, most Egyptians distrust Sudanese people…let alone Kenyan-Americans.

To educated Arabs, there’s a sense that his appointment will not change things (which is pretty much the consensus post-hype in the UK).

His first trip to the ME should be interesting.

Educated Egyptians, those from the Levant and Saudis (I’d guess the rest - can’t speak for the Maghreb) look up to ‘white’ Europeans and Americans even though some secretly despise their cultural preferences. I’m not sure an African-American will generate the same esteem…who knows…press coverage in Egypt so far and in the main Arab dailies has been positive. Let’s wait till he gets into office…

Gene

You always seem to conflate Chavez and Castro. While there are similarities, there are considerable differences, not least because Venezuela and Cuba are very different countries. So I think you can do better than Fox News style soundbites.

Gene - “BTW, Imam, do you have any thoughts on the effect of Obama’s election in the Muslim world? Will it make it harder for radical clerics to stir up anger against the US?”

I am not Imam but I think someone has already said all there is to say on this topic:

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/12/apologetic-mumbai-killers-we-didnt-get-the-memo-about-obama.html

MUMBAI - Ajmal Amir Kasab, the sole surviving member of the 10-man team of Pakistani gunmen that left hundreds dead or wounded after a bloody three day rampage in Mumbai, today blamed the mayhem on an “email mixup” that left him and his colleagues unaware that Barack Obama had won election as President of the United States.

“What? Oh bloody hell, now you tell me,” said Kasab, as he was led away in handcuffs by Indian security forces.

Kasab, 21, apologized to Indian President Pratibha Patil, explaining that no one in his group had known about the recent U.S. election results.

“Boy, talk about having egg on the face,” said a visibly embarrassed Kasab. “If we knew Bush was on his way out, obviously we would have called off the crazy random baby-shootings and martyrdom stuff, and signed on with the Peace Corps or Habitat for Humanity. At this point I guess all I can say is ‘my bad.’”

I am not Imam but I think someone has already said all there is to say on this topic:

It’s kind of grimly amusing, but it’s far from “all there is to say on this topic.” Nobody believes radical Islamists will give up their game because of Obama’s election. The question in my mind is the effect it will have on the overwhelming majority of Muslims who are not terrorists. But I agree with Imam that it mostly depends on what happens once he is in office.

Flanker’s :D is an emoticon - something that children and people who download ringtones use…

lol
xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD xD

You always seem to conflate Chavez and Castro

Castro 6ft 9in and dead (ish), Chavez 4ft 7in and a bouncing ball - its easy to make that mistake.

I liken this to the “Eskimos have thirty words for snow” point. As far as it makes any difference to my life then Castro and Chavez could be the same bloke. Just as a zebra danio and cod are just fish.

And that, dear friends, is the root of all misunderstanding, opinion and argument.

but had converted to atheism

Actually, one ‘reverts’ to atheism….theists that loose their belief in the deity of their choice are undergoing a form of recidivism, because all babies are born without god belief!

The question in my mind is the effect it will have on the overwhelming majority of Muslims who are not terrorists.

I suspect they will go about their lives as normal. What the fuck else are they going to do? It’s not “Joe Muslim” who is the problem, It’s their creepy-assed leaders.

‘In Egypt, most Egyptians distrust Sudanese people…let alone Kenyan-Americans.’

Egyptian attitudes to black Africans (let alone Sudanese Arab attitudes) are best explained here:

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article13349
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4571606.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4569662.stm
http://www.economist.com/world/mideast-africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_JGRSVGG

Oh, and Flanker, you sad little cunt, you have a sentence to explain; the one with the words ‘Bush’, ‘Reichstag’ and ‘burned’.

Of course he was just doing what Mo did :-
“Allah ’s Apostle said, ” I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”
I.e convert or we will fight you.

Obama will weaken America in the eyes of the Muslim world. The Arab world in particular isn’t that kindly towards Blacks. They won’t take orders from someone who is African.

And to state that Obama’s father became an atheist changes nothing.

Once a Muslim, always a Muslim.

Once a Muslim, always a Muslim.

No, I disagree entirely. It is always possible to throw off the shackles of irrationality. Islam is a *belief*. It is a set of fairy stories with no basis in fact, just like Christianity.

US murdering of Muslims do more to cause greivance and anger than any cleric can. But HP are incapable of seeing Muslims as human beings with feelings as well.

Morgoth

“No, I disagree entirely. It is always possible to throw off the shackles of irrationality. Islam is a *belief*. It is a set of fairy stories with no basis in fact, just like Christianity”

Unlike that highly rational religion Judaism
ROFLMAO

Cant win with the insane Islamophobic loonies at HP
During the election they were going on about how Obama was supported by Arabs/terrorsist (same in there eyes) so shouldnt be elected, now they say Arabs are racist against Obama (though a huge majority wanted him to win and 90% of US Muslims voted for him)

Once a Muslim, always a Muslim.

From time to time you have told us that the only way to deal with Muslims is to convert them. Now you seem to believe that conversion is not possible and, logically, the only way to defeat Islam is through genocide. Can you tell us please, is this a new development in your views, or have you been practising ‘taqiyah’?

I doubt that the making harder of whipping up hatred of America will make any difference. Observant Muslims are programmed to follow any voice of authority and to believe what it says, however outlandish. Obama’s presidency will merely mean that the imams have to be more creative with their lies.

Hasan, I myself don’t believe that the only way to deal with Muslims is to convert them and certainly not to murder them. They need help to exit the cult of Islam first in order to become fully functional human beings in society.

Islam is a cult in that it inserts itself in every aspect of the Muslim’s life. The first casualty is invariably the lack of capability to think for oneself, to argue with anyone in authority even when they are talking utter rubbish. Second is safety which is threatened by means of phobic induction, a fear either of being cast out from the fold or of what might happen if one leaves it (Islam makes that very clear).

muhammed set spies among his followers who brought any dissent to his notice and the dissenters were murdered. Muslims are enjoined to emulate their prophet in every particular, which means that the close Muslim community ties themselves come at a great cost to an independent thinker. The Muslim thought police can make life very difficult for anyone who does not follow the herd.

The failure to develop the capability to think for themselves (the enjoinder in Islam to submit to the greater will, be it the will of allah or their strident imam, is the direct opposite of this) and to be loyal to their co-religionists, however criminal their behaviour or crackbrained their ideas, infantilises Muslims and makes it easy for them to follow the herd.

Add to this the teachings of their prophet, which were probably true in his time, that everyone is against them and the only true friend of a Muslim is another Muslim, and we get the paranoia which cannot be reality-tested because a Muslim is not allowed to befriend a non-Muslim to the depth that would be necessary to find out whether this was in fact true.

So, we have

People who are never allowed to show doubt or to question;

Who have to submit totally to the will of the more powerful, whom they endow often with God-like qualities and who therefore must be obeyed;

The enjoinder to keep fellow believers on the straight path and to be loyal only to them (with the implicit threat of what might happen if a Muslim is not or does not);

The fear of being cast out or even worse if they show dissent;

The requirement for them to make the rest of the world believe as they do (they are too rigid and inflexible to be able to blend in and adapt to the wider world and in this case the mountain must indeed come to muhammud because the alternative causes far too much emotional and mental discomfort);

And we have the basis of a world-wide cult.

Steve Hassan’s book “Combatting Cult Mind Control” could have been written about Islam, as much as about his experience with the Moonies.

It’s good that Flanker can amuse himself, since he isn’t remotely amusing to anyone else. And he’s so obtuse that his “cleverness” re: his Reichstag troll is incomprehensible. I don’t know if he has a day job but if he does i wouldn’t give it up just yet. On the other hand there is still that poor village out there looking for an idiot….

Wow with the Flankers and HPBNP spewing anti-American/Western/Israeli/Jewish crap on one side and the John Pee’s and Christopher’s spewing real Islamophobia on the other, where’s a good centre-left (or centre-right, for that matter) to turn?

These guys have more in common than each would like to think. What a shame that sane voices like Gene’s and Hasan Prishtina get drowned out by the noisy racist morons.