Harry’s Place

“although I don’t know anyone who ever talks about “Joe Sixpack” other than a politician.”

He should get out more; this comment says much more about how limited his circle of acquaintances is than it does about the use of the term. I was very familiar with this term long before I lived here. It is widely used across the comsumer products industry to refer to a certain type of “average” NA consumer. If you go to CES in Vegas in January, you’ll be hard pressed to find anybody who does use and/or hear the term on almost daily basis.

He should get out more; this comment says much more about how limited his circle of acquaintances is than it does about the use of the term. I was very familiar with this term long before I lived here. It is widely used across the comsumer products industry to refer to a certain type of “average” NA consumer. If you go to CES in Vegas in January, you’ll be hard pressed to find anybody who does use and/or hear the term on almost daily basis.

Perhaps, but his point is that, um, “Joe Sixpacks” rarely use it to describe themselves.

“Joe Sixpack”

It’s a very dated usage, and that’s one indicator of cluelessness in the use of a slang term. It dates from a time when there were lots of blue-collar people with Slavic surnames that all sounded like Sixpack or Shitsky. Now most of those people are either unemployed in the Rust Belt or have gone into some kind of profession or at least office work. The more current term is “Bubba” and it refers ot a difernet ethnicity and a different working class, one that refuses ot unionize, for instance.

The more current term is “Bubba” and it refers ot a difernet ethnicity and a different working class, one that refuses ot unionize, for instance.

Or is strongly discouraged by their employers from doing so.

It’s a very dated usage, and that’s one indicator of cluelessness in the use of a slang term.

Right. And speaking of cluelessness, it was Sarah Palin who revived it this past year.

Iirc Mike Rosen did something similar on his show a while back, the studio guest was record producer (for billy bragg, nick drake among others) Joe Boyd.
Imo people like talking in industry jargon which isn’t native to their own line of work and being talked to in jargon too, providing it’s pretty easily decoded. It makes both parties feel cleverer than they actually are, all the benefits of selecting unnecessarily long words without requiring ‘elitist’ levels of knowledge.

I’m wrong about NPR. It HAS got an audience! Gene!

I’m right about NPR also. Its bollocks!

“It’s a very dated usage, and that’s one indicator of cluelessness in the use of a slang term”

Whatever its etymology, that is not its common usage today - which is really more colloquial than slang. “Bubba” is quite different, and in many cases used perjoratively by Northeast snobs, whereas “Joe Sixpack” usage is typically neutral to mildly positive and used interchangeably with “regular Joe”.

As for whether or not such people would use the term about themselves, that’s frankly irrelevant - and in any case I bet you’d be hard pressed to find many who would be offended to be called that. For that matter, no household making $250k would ever describe themselves as “rich”, but I don’t hear you criticizing Obama for his absurd definition on those grounds.

Orwell’s point was that most metaphors were dead in the sense that you no longer had to think about them to decode them and that they have a euphemistic property in that they dull emotional responses.

‘Pitbull in lipstick’ isn’t one of those since it still novel enough to work as a dysphemism.

“Dated” eh? Politicians can’t afford to use new slang since new slang won’t be understood by a large portion of the audience and some of it will be misunderstood.

Speaking of being misunderstood, my favorite new slang is the ironic use of the word “faggot” to describe someone who is a wet blanket because they’re too moral or are taking themselves too seriously.

Two eggs.

Tony Blair: prefixing every sentence with “guys”

Gordon Brown: “hard-working families”

?: “change”

Yep, “Joe Sixpack” is a marketing category, like “soccer mom” (or, if you prefer, “hockey mom”). These are deeply fucking patronising terms and they betray the way those who use them view people: as mindless consumers with a limited and readily-identified set of interests and beliefs, easily manipulated by the right marketing cues. Politicians who not only view voters as fodder in this way, but even try to manipulate them by apeing the stereotypes of whichever category they’re going for, really are the worse kind of slime. Sarah Palin, for instance.

BTW, DaveW, don’t you owe me a pint?

Where can I get me a huntin’ license?

Gene, while it is true that organizing unions is harder in the US then in most other industrial democracies, there is no getting around the fact that Burbas (Southern White Workers) are usually strongly anti-Union. Whether this is due to racial fears; keeping separate and hopefully above their black counterparts is still their foremost desire even if it hurts them economically (sort of like their distant Protestant cousins in Ulster via working class Catholics); or whether it is due to a canterkous individualism; or a combiniation of both is anyone’s guess.

Loved the way the interviewer slipped the irrelevant Alaska in there. Palin, after all, was the most authentic of the candidates. If that wasn’t the case the Democrats would probably have a less acute case of testicle envy.

OT, but interesting: Christopher Hitchens in Slate hits another one out of the ballpark*: “Three Questions about Rick Warren’s role in the Innaguration: If we must have an officiating priest, surely we can do better than this vulgar huckster.” at http://slate.msn.com/id/2207148

*Or to use its British equivalent, Hitch hits it for six!

Chuck is a moron, and Palin was an authentic moron.

But there is a point to be made that supposedly misrepresenting your class to the voters is a completely harmless sort of lie, unlike misrepresenting policy or misrepresenting fact. This article is complaining about NOTHING, nothing relevant at all.

Chuck is a moron, and Palin was an authentic moron.

Can you expand on these points. How was Palin an authentic moron given her real achievements? How am I a moron for pointing that out? Why was the interviewer still obsessed with Palin? Why, indeed, are you? Explanation please.

Can’t be bothered. Have a happy holidays.

Can’t be bothered. Have a happy holidays.

Ah, it’s beneath you to make an argument or cite facts. I suppose it tarnishes the authentic intellect.

David All:

In the “Deep South” the name “Bubba” is not only an affectionate nickname, it is often found as a given name as well–especially in the upper-middle classes where people’s money makes them more or less immune to the slings and arrows of ridicule–besides, people in the South (whites) generally think “Bubba” is a righteous name, “Dude.” Just as the names “Sister” and “Brother” are commonly used as official given first names also–as in Sister Etheridge–a girl I went to school with at LSU. Only those outside the South used to use Bubba as a disparaging remark–although as of late the upper classes increasingly use it as a pejorative when describing working class types.

(As an aside, a former pledge of my fraternity –a 6′8” 340lb kid named Bubba–once saved the life of myself and two of my friends in a South Louisiana “Dive” bar one night in 1966 by backing down six rough Coonass Cajuns (one of whose dates had been insulted by one of my drunken friends despite our best efforts to pull him away) merely by accidentally hoving on the scene,,,,)

It’s a waste of my time to argue. But annoying random people on the internet is still amusing which is why I wrote “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”.

PS: For anyone wondering about the derivation of the word “Coonass” Wiki for once has a very good and complete treatment of it’s derivation and usage. I would note also that the Louisiana Air National Guard Fighter Group mentioned (The self-named “Coonass Militia”) had one of my best friends and a Squadron-mate while I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge (68-71) as it’s attached USAF Liaison Officer for 15 years until he retired as a full Col. in the early 90s.

PS to David All–or anyone else, for that matter.

For anyone wondering about the derivation of the word”Coonass” Wiki for once has a very good and complete treatment of it’s derivation and usage. I would note also that the Louisiana Air National Guard Fighter Group mentioned (The self-named “Coonass Militia”) had one of my best friends and a Squadron-mate while I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge (68-71) as it’s attached USAF Liaison Officer for 15 years until he retired as a full Col. in the early 90s.

which is why I wrote “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”.

I noticed. But when casting the line amoung devout atheists you need better bait.

Chuck and Josh Scholar:

I am of an age where I can remember the prePC days growing up as a child where either term was acceptable–Happy Holidays used to encompass New Years rather than used as a slam against Christians. The Christmass cards and personal greetings one would receive; and store and street decorations were all about equally divided seemingly on a random basis–Another great tradition needlessly ruined by the (you?) anti-Christian multi-culti types. Nordic mythic Pagan overtones aside, there would be no official holidays were it not for the honoring of Christ–although I full well realize the celebration of Christmas
is far more commercialized and a bigger deal on our side of the pond than yours. (And I’m a confirmed agnostic, btw, as in “definite maybe”–which is sort of the difference between us and you atheists)

NPR is the only radio worth listening to in the United States. Naturally Maven the dittohead thinks it’s bollocks.

Another great tradition needlessly ruined by the (you?) anti-Christian multi-culti types.

I have nothing against Christians. On the whole I think that they are better than average people and that civilizations with Christian roots have tended to be innovative and progressive. Such views separate me from folks like Norm Geras, who argue that secular types are just as ethical and caring, something I think contradicted by the evidence. But I don’t see where God fits into the physical, as opposed to the spiritual, universe. I believe religion as an essential part of our nature, but I don’t believe in God. It is the conflict between these two things that makes the modern age so spiritually barren.

“BTW, DaveW, don’t you owe me a pint?”

I haven’t been following it that closely, but if you say so. Send me an email to davidandmartha at hotmail dot com and I’ll paypay you 5 bucks.

“while it is true that organizing unions is harder in the US then in most other industrial democracies”

The reason that it’s harder is that unlike in Europe, where closed shop has been ruled to be a violation of fundemenal human rights, in much of the USA when you organize a workplace as a union shop, you deny up to half of you co-workers their fundemental human rights. So, perhaps not so surprising that many people resist unionization more fiercely than in Europe, where you have a system of labor law that permits everyone both the right of free association, and in many cases the right to either collectively or individually contract with their employer.

If US unions were willing to respect the fundremental human rights of those who don’t agree with them, they would doubtless find people less feeling less threatened by them. But, given that the #1 issue for US unions right now is to repeal the right to a secret ballot on organization drives, maybe making people feel less threatened isn’t exactly at the top of their list of priorities.

Not just the secret ballot issue puts people off. I mean is there a good reason for banning secret ballots? the other issue is the support of the Democratic Party. Why would a Republican voter give money to a union for them to give it to the Democrats?

Union support of parties should be approved individually by the members. Fat chance of that though.

Or is strongly discouraged by their employers from doing so.

Poor Gene can’t get over the fact that not everyone wants to join the union branches of the Democratic Party.

. I mean is there a good reason for banning secret ballots?

Ask Gene. He’s in support of the grossly mis-named EFCA which would expressly BAN secret ballots.

Gene Perhaps, but his point is that, um, “Joe Sixpacks” rarely use it to describe themselves.

Would you constantly refer to yourself as ‘common’ if u woz ‘common’??

I suggest that you would probably be the last person to use that descriptor about yourself.

Virgil Xenophon: Thanks, for the information about Bubba and Coonass.