Nick Griffin now has ‘no time for anti-Semites’
BNP ‘chairman’ Nick Griffin is the author of a book called Who are the Mindbenders? which purports to expose a Jewish conspiracy in the media to promote ‘an endless diet of pro-multiracial, pro-homosexual, anti-British trash’. He has claimed that the Holocaust is ‘the Hoax of the Twentieth Century’ and ‘a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter-day witch-hysteria’. In 2006, it was exposed that he had named two of the pigs on his farm ‘Anne’ and ‘Frank’. When Griffin’s former MP, Alex Carlile, reported his racist rag ‘The Rune’ to the police (leading to a two year suspended jail sentence for publishing material likely to incite racial hatred), Griffin referred to him as ‘this bloody Jew … whose only claim is that his grandparents died in the Holocaust’.
However, today’s Independent on Sunday reports that in a recent interview with Tel Aviv newspaper Ma’ariv, Griffin has stated that he has ‘no time for anti-Semites’.
We can, therefore, look forward with baited breath to Griffin expelling anti-Semites from the BNP, publicly repudiating his former views, apologising to Holocaust survivors and the families of Holocaust victims, refusing to associate any more with American and European far-right figures who promote anti-Semitic ideas, issuing condemnation of the Nazi loving BNP supporters currently found on YouTube, on blogs and discussion forums, and in the neo-Nazi music scene, and the beginning of a new era of anti-Nazi activism from the BNP. Or maybe not.
Not everyone is happy with Griffin’s turn away from Jew baiting of course. The jolly folk over at Stormfront UK are perplexed. It’s ‘grotesque’ says ‘Grimoir’, who wants to know ‘What the hell is Griffin doing even talking to Israeli newspapers?’ George Lincoln Rockwell loving former Griffin bodyguard Joe Owens, AKA ‘Pure Rage’, a self-confessed ‘loser’ who served prison time for sending razor blades to members of Liverpool’s Jewish community and whose concerns include ‘breeding the untermenchen out’ and transvestite DJs, says of Jews that ‘I’d rather have none of them’, because ‘their usual shenanigans’ include ‘undermining Gentile society’. Nonetheless, he’s ‘not suggesting Griffin [is] in the pay of Mossad, but more of being used by them’. ‘Grimoir’ disagrees, and for ‘Byzantium Endures’, Griffin has ‘prostituted his principles’ and he smells Masonic involvement.
Long may the fragmentation of the British far-right continue. Whether anyone will take Griffin’s latest whitewashing attempt seriously remains to be seen. Let’s hope not.
Comments
| 4 January 2009, 12:13 pm |
Griffin’s explanation, a couple of years ago, was that going on about jewish conspiracy makes BNPers sound mad.
I suspect the real reason that Griffin says stuff like this, is because he really does believe Jews control the world, and is hoping to appease Jew Power.
| 4 January 2009, 12:22 pm |
Oh dear God! I think my sides have split. Well I guess this 180 turn shows that perhaps the BNP have adapted to mainstream politics better than we had all hoped ;-)
I hear Josef Goebbel’s “hilarious” stand-up routine is also available for weddings, birthday parties and bar-mitzvahs…
If there were any real justice Mr Griffin would be lynched by his Aryan-Cross tattoed, lumpen followers…
| 4 January 2009, 12:24 pm |
From Joe Owens’s site “What happened to the days of Showaddywaddy and David Essex?”, they would think to themselves. Well, those days are well and truly gone.”
For some reason, he thinks this is bad…
| 4 January 2009, 12:29 pm |
Will they update their database, classifying the various volk as A-S or P-S?
We need a new Downfall mash up, with the hero demanding a purge of anti-semites and flying into a rage when he’s told that’s 99% of the membership.
If there were any real justice Mr Griffin would be lynched by his Aryan-Cross tattoed, lumpen followers…
Nah, he should be tattooed by them. Race Traitor in ginormous letters. Performed by their delicate hands with chisels and mallets.
| 4 January 2009, 12:51 pm |
I wish I thought Griffin had had a Damascene conversion. I very much doubt it, he has just found a hate cause which has more traction: Anti-Islam. The underlying hate, bile and blood-lust have not changed. Use a long spoon supping with these people. Unfortunately, as the Chipmunk has acknowledged, Labour is pushing poor whites into the BNP spider web.
| 4 January 2009, 12:54 pm |
“he really does believe Jews control the world, and is hoping to appease Jew Power.”
Yes, this is a common belief. The Indymedia kids were calling on Friday for “an emergency picket of M&S” in response to the Gaza hostilities. I must admit that I bought my wensleydale and carrot chutney sandwhich from M&S on friday lunchtime with some trepidation. I was worried that - with most of their staff apparently off fighting in the Middle East - the sandwiches might not be up to their usual high standards. Happily I was wrong. It seems that Jews can prosecute a war, sell jerseys, and make millions of delicious lunches at the same time. What power!
| 4 January 2009, 1:02 pm |
A few years ago he spoke to a KKK meeting saying “there’s a difference between selling out, and selling your message”. He has “no time for anti-semites” because they expose the truth of what the BNP is.
| 4 January 2009, 1:23 pm |
In Strommen’s ‘Eurofascism’, one of the repeating motifs in neo-fascist discourse is to forget about the ‘far enemy’ i.e the Jews for now to concentrate on the near i.e. Muslims. The reckoning is that Muslims represent a more ‘democratic’ and widely held ‘other’ compared the ‘niche’ of the eternal Jew. The VB, the FN and now the BNP are treading this route. The hatred remains, it has merely been postponed.
| 4 January 2009, 1:33 pm |
This was in The Nation in March 2006:
Many attendees of the American Renaissance conference were so fixated on the “Jewish question,” they seemed deaf to the latest tactics promoted by the conference’s European speakers. Nick Griffin, recently acquitted by a British court on two counts of “inciting racial hatred,” has revitalized the marginal British National Party by adopting an explicitly Islamophobic “Euro-nationalism” in place of his party’s traditional anti-Semitism.
…Speaking on the conference’s first day, Griffin suggested his move away from anti-Semitism was purely tactical. “The proper enemy to any political movement isn’t necessarily the most evil and the worst,” he advised. “The proper enemy is the one we can most easily defeat.”
| 4 January 2009, 1:46 pm |
Nick Griffin’s just playing PR games, nothing more.
The BNP are a pile of fascists, slowly trying to work out how best to put out their propaganda, it is just a short term tactic
| 4 January 2009, 1:47 pm |
“Islami is a wicked and viscious religion” said Griffin and a court said he had the right to say that.
Apparently, Griffin has become a bit of a scholar on the Koran and read passages from it in his defence.
I suspect that Griffin has decided he has bigger fish to fry and somehow seeks to align himslef with some sympathy for Jews as a lever to fry that fish and point out their Jew hatred.
Hey, maybe when he was studying the Koran and Hadiths he became sickened by its Jew hatred and has had a conversion.
Nope. Its a flag of convenience he now flys.
I am going to say something that I know is controversial. If Griffin is the antidote to people like MPAC UK who push an Islamist agenda then I don’t mind him being my Useful Idiot quite frankly. As long as Griffin can separate everyday Muslims who want to integrate and lead a normal British life and celebrate their religion from the Islamists who want a Caliphate.
But I do NOT support the racist policies of the BNP. I don’t equate resistance to Islamification to be racist. I suspect however that in the back of his mind its a way of having ago at brown skinned people.
| 4 January 2009, 1:53 pm |
“Long may the fragmentation of the British far-right continue. Whether anyone will take Griffin’s latest whitewashing attempt seriously remains to be seen. Let’s hope not.”
The British far right is stronger than it has been in 50 years
Its success is based on the same recipe HP works on albeit in a lighter way - hatred of Muslims. The BNP is the most uncompromisingly pro-Israel party in the country. Why do you think that is?
Hatred of Muslims, Uncritical support for Israel. HP and the BNP are on the same side.
| 4 January 2009, 2:05 pm |
Hi HPhypocrite. I’m British Asian, with a load of Muslim friends. I don’t see any hatred of Muslims by the writers of Harry’s Place. Unless you equate critical scrutiny of far-right wing Islamist extremist ideologues as hatred of Muslims, in which case, you are an idiot and a cretin. That would be like saying that anyone critical of the BNP has a hatred of ‘whites’. What a horrible and stupid man you are, if that is what you believe.
| 4 January 2009, 2:09 pm |
I suspect the real reason that Griffin says stuff like this, is because he really does believe Jews control the world, and is hoping to appease Jew Power.
Maybe he’s looking for some funding!
| 4 January 2009, 2:12 pm |
Hi HPhypocrite. I’m British Asian, with a load of Muslim friends. I don’t see any hatred of Muslims by the writers of Harry’s Place. Unless you equate critical scrutiny of far-right wing Islamist extremist ideologues as hatred of Muslims, in which case, you are an idiot and a cretin
Pablo, thanks!
Because you have correctly articulated a debate we had a few months ago at HP that we are keen on identifying Islamists with an agenda of confrontation as well as an antisemitic streak. We recognise that this hijacks the good intentions of many UK Muslims who wish to live in harmony. It leads to the spurious label of “Islampahobe” as if our target is every Muslim.
| 4 January 2009, 2:21 pm |
hypo you are prejudiced. After all nobody in the leadership of the Jewish communities in the UK has legitimized Griffin.
But Islamists make common cause with Neo-Nazi. Enough to see their slogans at the recent demonstrations.
I am an Austrian Journalist and I have published on “Searchlight” an article about antimuslim incitement of a politician of our extreme right wing party FPOE. And I am writing also for HP, do you equate me with the fascists I fight?
| 4 January 2009, 2:32 pm |
I’m confused by Joe Owens’s site. Although he talks at length about homosexual acts as if they were a bad thing, the logo of his site features lots of topless, muscled men in tight jeans grappling with one another. Why should that be?
| 4 January 2009, 2:48 pm |
Karl Pfeifer
“hypo you are prejudiced. After all nobody in the leadership of the Jewish communities in the UK has legitimized Griffin.”
And which leaders of the Muslim community in the UK have made legitimized the BNP?
The BNP as with all of Europes far right groups is now anti-Muslim. In this they have found common cause with some Jews. They have for example Jewish councillors which they are proud of. You will rightly say such people are fringe people in the Jewish community.
But Nick Griffin says his favourite writer is Melanie Phillips a person HP links to on its site. The Daily Express and Star have greatly helped the BNP with their virulent anti-Muslim rhetoric. Both are published by Richard Desmond a scion of the Jewish community.
And when the Jewish Chronicle lets poster post things about “the UK allowing Pakistanis and Moslems into the country to enact Sharia law” you know there is something wrong.
Rabid anti-Muslim sentiment is common in the Jewish community.
I recommend you read this
Against Islam, Even Jews and Nazis can be Friends
http://www.jewcy.com/userblog/rightist_jews_make_common_cause_nazis_against_islam_antifa
| 4 January 2009, 2:52 pm |
“”"Long may the fragmentation of the British far-right continue”"”
on the contrary, the fragmentation of the far right is cause for concern. it is on the very nature of the far right to fragment. that tendency to fragment is what allows for their resilience.
it is because they are fragmented that they are dismissed by the moderate sectors of society as not important enough to cause concern and many people look at the fact that they exist and are free to express their anti-democratic ideas as a proof that our society tolerant and solidly based.
meanwhile, because of the prevalence of a distorted idea of tolerance, their ideas are being infiltrated into the mainstream, and that’s what really matters.
the real problem, thus is this distorted idea of tolerance and lack of commitment towards the defence of democratic values and freedom, which blinds people to the real meaning of extremism.
| 4 January 2009, 2:53 pm |
Could be that Nick Griffin is turning into a self-hating Nazi!
| 4 January 2009, 3:01 pm |
“But Nick Griffin says his favourite writer is Melanie Phillips a person HP links to on its site.”
Are you sure?
I often want to go to her site from here but cannot see any such link?
MattG
| 4 January 2009, 3:04 pm |
Maven
“Pablo, thanks!
Because you have correctly articulated a debate we had a few months ago at HP that we are keen on identifying Islamists with an agenda of confrontation as well as an antisemitic streak. We recognise that this hijacks the good intentions of many UK Muslims who wish to live in harmony. It leads to the spurious label of “Islampahobe” as if our target is every Muslim.”
Maven given your continual anti-Islam rhetoric such as your vile comment here:
“Why is the BBC posting an Obituary to an Antisemitic Terrorist Leader as if they were some recognised statesman.
Has the BBC gone completely into the Islamic Broadcast Service?”
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/01/03/israel-is-an-impossibility-it-is-an-offense-against-god/#comments
Completely undermines your argument. The fact you dont even recognise Islamophobia -hatred of Muslims exists or is wrong is vile.
Many Muslims completely disagree with the “Islamists” you attack and even more so with terrorists - but they all suffer from the hatred of all Muslims such continue media attacks result it. Even the most secular Muslims are deeply hurt by virulent attacks on Islam as “evil” or “barbaric” since it is effectively saying a part of their and their families identity is evil.
And when attacks on “Islamism” by HP members involve trying to restrict the religious practices and freedoms of Muslims which have nothing to do with politics (not that there is anything wrong with Muslims getting involved in politics) its clear HP is anti-Muslim.
This is coupled with completely ignoring anti- Muslim hatred - even when HP comments on the BNP its on its anti-Jewish agenda! and HP never focuses on extremists in other communities for example Hindu facsists organisations like the RSS/ VHP which freely operate in the UK. That is clear prejudice.
Its useless and deeply hypocritical to say “we dont mean all Muslims” and then continually portray Muslims solely as terrorists or evil people.
| 4 January 2009, 3:07 pm |
“I often want to go to her site from here but cannot see any such link?
MattG”
The link now appears to be have been removed but was there before
Perhaps HP could do a brilliant expose on HPs link to the zionist far right
| 4 January 2009, 3:11 pm |
The analysis of Jews as the “far enemy” and Muslims as the near enemy is flawed. Muslims and Jews are on a par to people like Griffin. The near enemy are the fellow travellers, the dhimmi apologists in our midst, and those who cannot see the far enemy through their rose-tinted glasses.
If Griffin is the antidote to people like MPAC UK who push an Islamist agenda then I don’t mind him being my Useful Idiot
Beware, someone who can top Paxman is no idiot, and the Junkers once thought precisely this about Hitler: “we have hired him” - Von Pappen in 1933. But Griffin obviously sees any struggle against Jews as becoming subsumed by the coming Third Jihad. In this he has, I suppose, at least chosen the right side.
| 4 January 2009, 3:12 pm |
Hypo, I am an Austrian journalist and I am not as informed as HP and Engage about the situation in the UK. On those websites one can find reports on plenty of collaboration between British Islamists and extreme right people. Holocaust denial is very much rampant in the Muslim community. I guess British posters can give you more facts on that.
In Austria the extreme right FPOE has tried to come with some antimuslim dirt and get legitimacy from the Jewish community. The Jewish community has refused to have any contacts or deals with this ilk.
On the other hand, the FPOE has offered not to protect anymore an individual like M.A. Friedman who pretends to be a rabbi and who was at the Holocaust denial conference in Teheran, if the Jewish community would stop criticising FPOE. This same Friedman is getting praise from Neo-Nazi and extreme antizionist left and is defended in court by a lawyer of FPOE.
Hypo could you explain why some Muslims attacked in Europe synagogues and Jewish institutions? Could you tell me one case, where Jews attacked a mosque in Europe?
| 4 January 2009, 3:38 pm |
The BNP as with all of Europes far right groups is now anti-Muslim.
You really aren’t up to speed. Islamists have committed dozens of terror attacks in Europe over the past decade, terror attacks that even ‘moderate’ Muslims were reluctant to condemn. Their strident, incessant, my-sharia-shit-doesn’t-stink demands are intolerant, irritating aggressions that are pissing Europeans off and glavanising support for the Far Right all across the continent.
That’s the blunt truth.
It’s not racist sentiments or Far Right sympathies that are driving Europeans to detest Islam, but rather the chauvinistic, supremacist behavior of islamists and moderate Muslims alike that drive those sentiments.
I light of these threats and in light of the almost passive, tacit support moderates appear to be giving to their radical counterparts, I think it quite normal and natural that more Europeans express their repugnance with this facist ideology.
I’m not constrtained to ‘love’ Muslims any more than I am constrained to love Stalinists. I am not morally obliged to tolerate and embrace a belief systeme that is totally anti-human, and I am under no compulsion to tolerantly tip-toe around Bronze Age fanatics who are unwilling and unable to adapt to a modern world, a world Islam had absolutely no role in creating and who desire, thus, to destroy it and all it represents.
So their egoism has put ‘em on the wrong side of history…fuck ‘em!
If a muslim wants sharia, wants an islamic ‘parliament’, wants segregated this and halal that, then I suggest they move to a majority-Muslim country ( tyrannies all) before their lack of respect for the cultures of their ‘adopted’ countries and incessant supremacists demands provoke a backlash that radicalises moderate Europeans.
Is it worth mentioning that Bernard Henri Levy, a man who has championed mulitculturalism, and who has denounced islamophobia, and who has been doing so for years is now, along with a half-dozen other leftwing euro-intellectuals, under a death fatwa?
Will he be voting Le Pen next time ’round?
It is the duty of every progressive to role back any gains Islam has made in Europe ( it’s all about territory) and to immediately kneecap any demands that will be made in the future.
Islam is a totalitarian ideology incompatible with the modern, secular democratic world. As a general rule of thumb, the more intensely an individual follows the ‘faith’, the greater the chances they’ll be sociopaths…or worse.
Communism-Nazism-Islamism..Shit, what’s not to hate in this?
| 4 January 2009, 4:31 pm |
Maybe he’s just mellowing in his old age.
| 4 January 2009, 4:35 pm |
John P. racism is to be rejected. So I reject your generalisations about Islam. Most Muslims are peaceful and when you say Islam is a totalitarian ideology you could say the same about any religion.
Islamism should be rejected, but Muslims should be integrated in European societies.
| 4 January 2009, 4:46 pm |
This is just more of the usual hopeless PR rubbish from Griffin. His attempts to legitimize the BNP would be pathetic if they weren’t so laughable.
Claiming to oppose anti-Semitism, together with his phoney support for Israel, is a cynical charade played out merely to advance the BNP’s own agenda and to mask its true views. Doubtless the strategy is viewed as a double-winner by Griffin, Collett, Kemp and their fellow geniuses at BNP HQ. Firstly, it detracts attention from the fact that the party, from Griffin downwards, is packed with rabid Jew-haters, Holocaust deniers and Hitler fetishists.
Secondly, and this is the bonus for them, it unjustly associates Israel with neo-fascist racists, a scurrilous link that Israel’s enemies have been quick to exploit for propaganda purposes (see the crap posted by HPhypocrite above).
| 4 January 2009, 5:16 pm |
Okay, hands up who peeked inside the Stormfront forum ‘Ladies Only’? The latest topic is entitled “Could you commit to a polygamous life?”.
| 4 January 2009, 5:42 pm |
Okay, hands up who peeked inside the Stormfront forum ‘Ladies Only’?
You did, clearly. I wasn’t even slightly tempted. You foul beast, Macpherson.
| 4 January 2009, 6:05 pm |
‘I don’t mind him being my Useful Idiot quite frankly’…and thats why you’re a complete cunt
| 4 January 2009, 6:08 pm |
That they have a sufficiently large female readership to dedicate an entire section is - forgetting that they’re rancid Nazis - a plus. I’ve noticed a mellowing of tone on this blog as more laydees comment. It’s like letting them into pubs. A pacifying influence.
| 4 January 2009, 6:26 pm |
BNP ‘chairman’
Your scare quotes are infantile.
| 4 January 2009, 6:27 pm |
Karl Pfeiffer
“Hypo, I am an Austrian journalist and I am not as informed as HP and Engage about the situation in the UK. On those websites one can find reports on plenty of collaboration between British Islamists and extreme right people. ”
If you think Engage or HP are informed about these issues you are seriously deluded.
“Holocaust denial is very much rampant in the Muslim community. I guess British posters can give you more facts on that.”
Im a British Muslim so I think I know a bit more about it than you. It does exist but it isnt as you claim rampant. For most Muslims, particularly those originating outside Europe its not a relevance as it is (understandably) for Jews.
Id recommend this article “Holocaust denial undermines Islam”
http://www.zaytuna.org/articleDetails.asp?articleID=118
“In Austria the extreme right FPOE has tried to come with some antimuslim dirt and get legitimacy from the Jewish community. The Jewish community has refused to have any contacts or deals with this ilk.”
Likewise the Muslim community. I mean do you seriously think the Muslim community made up almost entirely by brown/non-white people wants to form alliances with parties which wish to expell all non-whites and wipe out Islam in their countries? Are you sane?
“Hypo could you explain why some Muslims attacked in Europe synagogues and Jewish institutions?”
Well we all got together at a Eurabia meeting (all 20 -or is it 200- million European Muslims) and decided to do this. I dont know why criminals choose to do such things . Probably the same reason many mosques get attacked (and many many do) since people get angry at events in the news and hold an entire community to blame.
They certainly werent acting according to Islam. The Quran says
“If God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God’s name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Qur’an, 22:40)”
You will note the protection of synangogues is mentioned before the protection of mosques
Perhaps you dont know and perhaps HP wont tell you but in places like Stamford Hill Muslims and Jews live together and have excellent relations. The East London mosque and synagogue are side by side in Whitechapel.
“Could you tell me one case, where Jews attacked a mosque in Europe?”
Many mosques do get attacked. Im not aware of any Jews having done this. Im not aware of the religious/racial identity of those who do attack mosques and do not consider it important since these are indiviual acts (even the BNP for example doesnt tell members to attack mosques ) though think its usually white males. Even so this doesnt mean all white males should be blamed.
In the US Irv Rubin of the JDL plotted to blow up mosques. Even if a Jewish person such as Rubin does this only he is responsible for it. Not the whole Jewish community. Likewise with the Muslim community. Learn this Karl.
In the UK prominent members of the Jewish community such as Richard Desmond stir up extreme hatred of Muslims in their mass circulation papers. They dont support Muslims getting attacked (at least not UK Muslims -Iraqis maybe) and mosques being attacked but create hatred of Muslims which inevitably legitimises it in the minds of some.
Jules Streicher never took part in killing Jews yet one could hardly argue he wasnt a baneful influence because he never resorted to violence.
| 4 January 2009, 6:28 pm |
John P. racism is to be rejected. So I reject your generalisations about Islam
Islam is now a race, yes?
I blame the parents.
Carry on as you were, John P. You are a sane voice in a demented world.
| 4 January 2009, 6:29 pm |
Probably the same reason many mosques get attacked
A list of mosques attacked in 2008, please?
We wouldn’t like to think that you are making up any of this.
| 4 January 2009, 6:33 pm |
when you say Islam is a totalitarian ideology you could say the same about any religion
Crap. Jews don’t do any of the things Moslems do in the name of their ‘religion’. You know, minor things like bombing the tube, railways, clubs, WTC …
| 4 January 2009, 6:39 pm |
Joseph K
“Secondly, and this is the bonus for them, it unjustly associates Israel with neo-fascist racists, a scurrilous link that Israel’s enemies have been quick to exploit for propaganda purposes (see the crap posted by HPhypocrite above).”
As opposed to those who try and link pro-palestinian groups to neo-nazis?
It a fact that the far right now supports Israel (having previously detested it) since now they are focussing on the Muslims as their enemy .
Ruth Smeed, of the Board of Deputies, “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web - it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel.”
Also it is not pre-1950s Europe- the racial outsiders are not Jews who are white but blacks and asians. I never said that the Jewish community as a whole agrees with these groups in the least, though it is a fact that some individual Jews do and that these groups have been campaigning in Jewish areas to get votes (they dont canvass Muslim because they are overwhelmingly not white)
| 4 January 2009, 6:44 pm |
Paragraph three, sentence one begins:
“We can, therefore, look forward with baited [sic] breath…”
Unless the writer is attempting a pun, “baited” must be replaced with the correct word “bated”.
This is a distressingly common homophone error. The error is compounded by its appearing within a cliché.
Dejectedly,
- Jonathan
- Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
| 4 January 2009, 6:56 pm |
Of course, just like the Saucer People, the Fuhrer has taken a look at the situation with his good eye and rationally decided that the Islamo-Nazi-Commie-Trots are the main enemy, In League with the Gallowayite-Brownshirt-Stoppers.
Another member for the Crusade, fellas!
| 4 January 2009, 6:57 pm |
And it should have been “Griffin’s expelling anti-semites”, forsooth!
| 4 January 2009, 7:04 pm |
Look at BNP policies there not much different from Nick Cohens’ What’s left or many of the views of the Cohen endorsed Frontpage and dare I say many of the posters and writers on this site
Same bogeymen
Same solutions
| 4 January 2009, 7:12 pm |
Nearly Oxfordian
“Carry on as you were, John P. You are a sane voice in a demented world.”
LOL
“A list of mosques attacked in 2008, please?
We wouldn’t like to think that you are making up any of this.”
Why 2008 ?
I dont keep lists but here are some incidents over the past years
These are some in the UK (excluding physical attacks on Muslims or descecration of Muslim cemetries etc)
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/index/press.php?pr=246
http://www.pluralism.org/news/article.php?id=10090
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1341074/Mosque-attacks-going-unreported.html
http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/518/518986_thugs_in_mosque_attack.html
http://www.naar.org.uk/newspages/050311b.asp
http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=12987
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/5401490.stm
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/3982575.Young_thugs_attack_Southend_mosque/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6059976.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5301088.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/6930363.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/4678521.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/5165676.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/6976289.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6076074.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/6534533.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/4797607.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6261290.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hereford/worcs/4669039.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/6235299.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/2975018.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/5376254.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1584399.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2024640.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/4692731.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/4697752.stm
In my local area one mosque was destroyed in an arson attack (before 9/11) another has been attacked at least a couple of time and another has been attacked as well as had graffiti sprayed on it
| 4 January 2009, 7:19 pm |
John P. @ 4 January 2009, 3:38 pm
Did you notice the reports of the recent General Election in Bangladesh?
| 4 January 2009, 7:21 pm |
RE: BNP policies there not much different from Nick Cohens’ What’s left
you really are off your nut aren’t u? or maybe just a typical rad leftie, who thinks anyone to the right of him/her is automatically a fascist… wait, that’s exactly what you’re saying.
| 4 January 2009, 7:26 pm |
Some posters on this thread are very seriously underestimating the character of Nazi hostility to Jews.
It is at the core of their thinking and they see it as an explanation for all the other features of the modern world that they have elaborate racist views about. For example, their view that the presence of dark skinned people in the UK (Netherlands, France, Portugal) is a Jewish conspiracy to dilute the white race.
Ther problem with raving fruitcakes is that some of them tend to become violent fruitcakes.
| 4 January 2009, 7:28 pm |
Hypo, you are not credible, when you deny connections between Muslim leaders and Holocaust deniers.
The British newspaper The Observer revealed that British Muslim leader Asghar Bukhari, a founder of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee, contributed to David Irving’s legal fund in 2000. In a letter at the time, Bukhari promised to urge Muslims to support Irving’s efforts to “expose certain falsehoods perpetrated by the Jews.” In response, Bukhari told The Observer
that he was “motivated by anti-Israel sentiments rather than anti-Semitism.”
November 2006
British Muslim Leader Supports Holocaust Denier…
.. One of Britain’s most prominent speakers on Muslim issues is today exposed as a supporter of David Irving, who for years denied the Holocaust took place.
Asghar Bukhari, a founder member of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC), which describes itself as Britain’s largest Muslim civil rights group, sent money to Irving and urged Islamic websites to ask visitors to make donations to his fighting fund.
Bukhari contacted the discredited historian, sentenced this year to three years in an Austrian prison for Holocaust denial, after reading his website. He headed his mail to Irving with a quotation attributed to the philosopher John Locke: ‘All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to stand idle.’
In one email Bukhari tells Irving: ‘You may feel like you are on your own but rest assured many people are with you in your fight for the Truth.’ Bukhari pledges to make a donation of £60 to Irving’s fighting fund and says that he has asked ‘a few of my colleagues to send some in too’. He also offers to send Irving a book, They Dare to Speak Out, by Paul Findley, a former US Senator, who has attacked his country’s close relationship with Israel. Bukhari says Findley ‘has suffered like you in trying to expose certain falsehoods perpetrated by the Jews’.
In a follow-up letter, Bukhari writes: ‘Here is the cheque I promised. Good luck, if there is any other way I can help please don’t hesitate to call me. I have also asked many Muslim websites to create links to your own and ask for donations.’
Bukhari confirmed sending the letters in 2000.
MPAC, which strongly denies allegations that it is anti-semitic, accused The Observer of ‘twisting an innocent gesture of support (even if gravely mistaken) into more than it is’. The story was ‘just another Islamaphobic attack aimed at undermining and harming the brave individuals who support the Palestinian cause and the cause of Muslims within Britain.’
| 4 January 2009, 7:28 pm |
Maybe that guy only joined the British Nazi Party because he liked the German uniforms. I know that they looked dead cool and I always thought when I grew up I would be a stormtrooper for the Nazis or a stormtrooper for Darth Vader.
| 4 January 2009, 7:30 pm |
John P. racism is to be rejected. So I reject your generalisations about Islam
Karl P. Islam isn’t a race, nor is it a religion. It is an ideology that purports to administer and regulate EVERY LAST ASPECT of an individual’s life, and as such I am free to criticise it, to denounce it and to lampoon it the way I would with nazism or stalinism or any other totalitarian ideology.
Islamism should be rejected, but Muslims should be integrated in European societies.
Now, as I stated above, islam purports to regulate and administer every last aspect of a individual’s life; Islam, as the old cliche goes, is a whole way of life
Whether ‘moderate’ or islamist, any muslim in question is expected to adhere to that diktat, and so therefore the integration you’re talking about just isn’t going to happen. Many Muslims may be moderate, but Islam is not.
You doubt my views?
Islam has been in India for 13 centuries. That’s a very long time.
Yet to this day the vast majority of Muslims living-in-India, though they may be moderate, are holed up in self-imposed apartheid ghettos and generally keep contact with the ‘impure’ to a strict minimum. At the entrance to some of these ghettos one actually sees the flag of Pakistan and not that of India.
The memorial service held in Mumbai illustrated this self-imposed separatness in a very clear way.
A human chain composed of every religion represented in Mumbai was set up to commemorate the massacre, and all the different faiths were to hold hands. Mumbai’s muslims were, of course, present in spades except that they didn’t integrate into that human chain, but instead formed an exclusively ‘halal’ segment, one in which only Muslims held hands with other Muslims.
Do you, CAN you understand what motivated them to do that?
Were it not for their darker skin-tone, one would never have know they were from India seeings all were wearing arab clothing and arab headscarves.
What’s more all appeared quite festive, grinning, as they were, from ear to ear.
Grinning from ear to ear and exuding a party atmopshere at a sombre and solemn memorial service held to acknowledge the brutal murders of nearly 200 innocent people.
They reminded me of Palestinians celebrating after a suicide bomber successfully kills a dozen Israelis.
Did I mention Muslims have been in India for 1300 years?
| 4 January 2009, 7:31 pm |
Did you notice the reports of the recent General Election in Bangladesh?
Yes, and I was overjoyed.
| 4 January 2009, 7:53 pm |
You will note the protection of synangogues is mentioned before the protection of mosques
(wipes tear from eye) did you knopw that last year alone over 1,500 churches were trashed, burned and destroyed by Muslims?
Although, it should be noted that Saudi Arabia, the home of the Profit and islam’s ‘holiest’ shrines bends over backwards and spares no expense to look after its synagogues and churches. And like in France, the Saudi gov’t is so generous and understanding, it even pays the salaries of rabbis and priests!
It’s a VERY tolerant place, and it’s a kind of tolerance that The West should investigate and even consider…islam IS progressive… implementing in years to come.
But it should only be implemented with regards to Islam, because only islam with its progressive paradigms so richly deserves such tolerance.
Don’t you agree, HPhypocrite?
Oh! Do you have any idea just how suitable your moniker is?
In short, are you irony enabled?
| 4 January 2009, 9:04 pm |
Ruth Smeed, of the Board of Deputies, “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web - it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel.”
Perhaps, hypocrite who posts to Harry’s Place, you should have given her full statement and not lied through your teeth by inserted a fullstop where you did:
Ruth Smeed, of the Board of Deputies, said: “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web - it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel and at the same time demonises Islam and the Muslim world. They are actively campaigning in Jewish communities, particularly in London, making a lot of their one Jewish councillor, their support of Israel and attacking Muslims. It is a poisonous campaign but it shows a growing electoral sophistication.”
This can be found on a Guardian report. Heck, Tony Greenstein gives the full quotation (I link to this page with the knowledge of the main subject, and that he’ll likely pop up here).
If you really must allude to far-right opinion, you could check-out the *deeply* negative views on it at the Stormfront site (which I won’t provide a hyper-link to):
http://www.stormfron
t.org/forum/showthread.php?t=480226&page=2
Alas, Joseph K, whether or not Ma’ariv was wise to report this is moot, when you see what mis-representations Hypocrite can come out with.
| 4 January 2009, 10:25 pm |
Karl Pfeiffer
“Hypo, you are not credible, when you deny connections between Muslim leaders and Holocaust deniers.”
And your not credible when you say Asghar Bukhari is a Muslim leader
| 4 January 2009, 10:38 pm |
Alec Macpherson
Ruth Smeed, of the Board of Deputies, “The BNP website is now one of the most Zionist on the web - it goes further than any of the mainstream parties in its support of Israel.”
“Perhaps, hypocrite who posts to Harry’s Place”
which one?
“, you should have given her full statement and not lied through your teeth by inserted a fullstop where you did:”
Oh dear. I quoted the quote as I came across it which was with the full stop and nothing after. Am not sure what is said after has any bearing since I merely pointed out that the far right is pro-Israel and wants Jews as allies- and even members of Jewish community agree with that - I never said a large number of the Jewish community or the Board agrees.
| 4 January 2009, 10:40 pm |
John P
“Islam has been in India for 13 centuries. That’s a very long time.
Yet to this day the vast majority of Muslims living-in-India, though they may be moderate, are holed up in self-imposed apartheid ghettos and generally keep contact with the ‘impure’ to a strict minimum. At the entrance to some of these ghettos one actually
sees the flag of Pakistan and not that of India.”
This reminds me of anti-semitic propaganda about the Jews . disgusting.
Confronting the haters on your side eh?
| 4 January 2009, 10:45 pm |
But why, why, why do people feel the need to associate with, vote for and become members of a party with such an illustrious history?
Could it be that a significant number of UK citizens oppose immigration, further European political integration and the amputation of history? Who do such people vote for? Who carries their voice to Westminster and Brussels?
Until British politics acknowledges that a growing number of indigenous people feel isolated and culturally disenfranchised in their own country, the electorate will continue to move towards groups on the extreme of politics.
| 4 January 2009, 10:46 pm |
I quoted the quote as I came across it which was with the full stop and nothing after.
Yes, that’s because you found it somewhere like Socialist Unity or the *B.N.P.* site itself. Whether or not you knew for a fact this quotation was deliberately altered or that it simply appealed to your anti-Jewish racism is moot. The effect is the same.
Am not sure what is said after has any bearing since I merely pointed out that the far right is pro-Israel and wants Jews as allies- and even members of Jewish community agree with that - I never said a large number of the Jewish community or the Board agrees.
Actually, you did. Who are you? Bob Pitt?
| 4 January 2009, 10:50 pm |
Heh, I’ve just noticed that the Socialist Unity article, with the altered quotation, was by Greenstein! He is hopeless!
| 4 January 2009, 10:50 pm |
HPHypo
I don’t see the Romford Masjid in Lessington Ave. on your list…I wonder why that is, hmmm?
| 4 January 2009, 10:54 pm |
“HPHypo
I don’t see the Romford Masjid in Lessington Ave. on your list…I wonder why that is, hmmm?”
I merely posted links I found to attacks on Mosques. If you have one for that mosque by all means post it
| 4 January 2009, 11:22 pm |
I think what Graham means is that the mosque in question does not appear to have adequate planning permission. No reports of vandalism.
You, however, assume an attack has taken place. This may be related to your quickly provided list of links purportedly demonstrating an uprising against British Muslims - see why I think you’re that disgusting person, Bob Pitt - most of which turn out to be anecdotal and unattributed (like the altered quotation from Ruth Sneed you gave) or no more worthy of condemnation of other cases of physical assault on religious figures and members of the public.
Hypocrite? You said it!
| 4 January 2009, 11:28 pm |
Britain should remain a White nation, and Griffin sees this. I’m proud to vote BNP and help save our country.
| 4 January 2009, 11:39 pm |
“Am not sure what is said after has any bearing since I merely pointed out that the far right is pro-Israel and wants Jews as allies- and even members of Jewish community agree with that - I never said a large number of the Jewish community or the Board agrees.”
Alec Mcpherson
“Actually, you did. Who are you? Bob Pitt?”
No you are lying. I never did.
| 4 January 2009, 11:49 pm |
Alec Macpherson
“I think what Graham means is that the mosque in question does not appear to have adequate planning permission. No reports of vandalism.
You, however, assume an attack has taken place.”
Yes I produced a list of mosques attacked in the UK - then Graham asked me why Romford wasnt on the list (a list of mosques attacked in the UK). Why wouldnt I then assume he was saying an attack had taken place. ?
” This may be related to your quickly provided list of links purportedly demonstrating an uprising against British Muslims - see why I think you’re that disgusting person, Bob Pitt -”
I was replying to Nearly Oxfordians request of a list of UK mosques attacked.
You really arent well, are you?
” most of which turn out to be anecdotal and unattributed (like the altered quotation from Ruth Sneed you gave) ”
Astonishing - Nearly Oxfordian questions whether mosques get attacked- I provide a list and you call them “anecdotal and unattributed”
“or no more worthy of condemnation of other cases of physical assault on religious figures and members of the public.”
Im amazed you consider them worthy of condemnation at all
| 4 January 2009, 11:53 pm |
Of course you did, Bob. Go away and don’t come back until you can find an attributed and un-edited quotation which shows a fully reciprocal relationship between the Board of Deputies and B.N.P. Love the way, by the way, that you link the main British Jewish body to the Zionism which fills you with such sexual fury!
| 4 January 2009, 11:55 pm |
HPhypocrite:
It a fact that the far right now supports Israel (having previously detested it) since now they are focussing on the Muslims as their enemy.
The BNP leadership contains some of the most hardcore anti-Semites British politics has ever seen (take a look at copies of The Rune sometime if you need evidence). You, however, naively believe that the party supports Israel simply because its leaders makes phoney pro-Israel noises? If somebody makes a noise like a dog, do you start looking for their tail?
“The BNP is the most uncompromisingly pro-Israel party in the country. Why do you think that is?”
To try and hide its pernicious anti-Semitism. You must have heard the old chestnut “Racist? Me? Why, that’s nonsense - some of my friends are [insert ethnic group]”. Claiming to supporting Israel, while having noxious Jew-haters like Arthur Kemp in its leadership ranks, is a ruse that surely even the most prejudiced of anti-Israel bigots should be able to see straight through.
“They have for example Jewish councillors which they are proud of. You will rightly say such people are fringe people in the Jewish community.”
No, they have a (as in one) “Jewish” councillor, a woman who was born into Jewish family but who has renounced the religion and admits that she doesn’t even consider herself to be Jewish. She has no connection whatsoever with the Jewish community. Her “Jewishness” only emerges as a counter-claim by party propagandists whenever the BNP’s very real anti-Semitism is highlighted, or else when anti-Semites and Israel-haters want to smear Jews by linking them to neo-fascism. As in your case.
As for linking “pro-Palestinians” with neo-Nazis, I can’t help noticing that all of your evidence is simply a regurgitation of the BNP’s own propaganda (the reference to Jewish councillors, plural, is the same lie regularly told by BNP apologists in website comments sections).
Funny that such a “pro-Palestinian” should mouth the words of a neo-Nazi party.
| 4 January 2009, 11:56 pm |
Edmund, the voters don’t give two hoots about any of this.
How come Griffin knows exactly how to press their buttons, and you are farting about with stuff like this?
It makes me think you are not awfully serious.
| 5 January 2009, 12:19 am |
Why wouldnt I then assume he was saying an attack had taken place. ?
Because you’re a thick twat without an ounce of journalistic integrity, and incapable of checking citations?
I was replying to Nearly Oxfordians request of a list of UK mosques attacked.
Which you provided in under 45 minutes. Now, either you had these prepared, or you did not have your argument prepared and spent the next 45 minutes doing random googles. I still think you’re Bob Pitt.
What you are attempting to present is the Pittian image of British Muslims being at the receiving end of an outpouring of race hate and bigotry, which only white middle-aged, middle-class blokes can halt, with a side-swipe at America and Israel. However, what you provide is, whilst demanding of condemnation as individual incidents, either small-beer or representing a level of violence directed against non-Muslim religious targets - such as here… oops… sorry Zin… I meant here :oD
Until last summer, it was accepted that the first racist murder in Scotland was of a white boy by Asians, i.e. Kriss Donald.
Note, I am not drawing attention to the attackers’ race. That’s what you do. Even if you’re not a racist yourself, Bob, you’re a racial arsonist and stand in the way of anti-racism.
| 5 January 2009, 3:59 am |
Bob Dylan bought Griffin’s book for all his friends this Christmas, so there!
Why do you people always go on about hating people so much? People from the various religions in India and Malysia to mention just a few places, hate each other to distraction but manage to get along famously apart from the odd riot and they even pretend fascination in each others festivals. Jews have made an incredible, postive impact on British Life who would not hate them for it!
| 5 January 2009, 3:26 pm |
A year ago, the BNP had about 13,000 members and, in the most recent European elections, the BNP polled just under 1 million votes. How many real nazis are there in the UK i.e. those who would hold the views expressed on stromfront? I would reckon 1,000 at most. So it must surely be evident that the great bulk of the BNP’s supporters cannot be ‘nazi’ unless a ‘nazi’ is merely someone who disagrees with policies intended to bring about the end of whites in Britain and Europe - and Yasmin Alibhai-Brown wants precisely that!
I am now a BNP supporter faute de mieux. I am no nazi, and I support Israel 100% because Israel is the embodiment of a people defending their nation created by themselves through their toil and ingenuity on their land. I consider Jews to be part of the west in a way which muslims are not and can never be.
| 5 January 2009, 5:28 pm |
It isn’t the nazi bit of the BNP mix that is the main threat. British ultra-nationalism is far more indebted to the wider radical right/New European right/Italian and oddly Romanian Fascism than Nazism. The essential element is the nature of identity and of society. Change threatens identity and the conceived notion of society as unifying and eternal. Thus only by regenerating society can this change be dealt with.
Consider the some of the other bete noires of the BNP
- Homosexuals by their very existence subvert sexual and gender roles in a morally homogenous and united society. They become a source of dissonant behaviour and that most terrible of sins for fascists, decadence. They are preceived as a standing mockery of ‘proper and moral’ relationships. They are not us, they are alien, they pervert all that is good as a very base level. This precived threat is one of the defining hallmarks of British fascism.
- Reds/Pinko/Trots etc are a threat of great urgency to societal rebirth. They are preceived to be active in destroying the gemienschaft by their programs based on ‘erronous’ ideas of progress, liberty blah blah blah. Worst, they are ‘us’ but they act as traitors to the community, the narod, the volk. They are forcing society down towards its decadent nadir, towrads its heat death, normally in some alliance with other agents.
- The Liberal establishment is probably the most powerful of this mythical leviathans. It’s celebration of individualism, of abstractions, of its control of discourse and its total success is infuriating, not just to fascists but to many of the left as well. To the BNP, the heritage of Liberal Britain is too universal, too ‘un-rooted’ and too undermining of their mythology. It is the anti-thesis of their conception of a bound and united society. It is too messy, too corrupting.
Race is merely one particular facet of fascism. Some see it as the base of the gemienschaft, other see an ill-defined and basically self-created ‘culture’ instead. The threat from the BNP is not that they are rascist, but that in making the nation, the gemienschaft, God, in sacralising some dream-like society, they are thus enabled and indeed compelled to hack away dissonance, saw off decadence, re-pristinate humanity. They are dreamers of the day and their singular attachment to this illusion gives them the gumption to destroy and burn.
This concentration is ‘democratised’ in periods of political and social crisis, as circumstances give it traction. The BNP are selling a fine romantic picture of a possible ‘decent’ and regnerated Britain. They promise not to allow ‘red tape’ or ‘political correctness’ or ‘minorities’ to get in the way. That is the Kraken’s seduction. They are not useful idiots, just like Bolsheviks are not comrades to left, they are a ideological toxin. It is just surprising we need to be reminded again and agin on this point
| 5 January 2009, 5:50 pm |
That’s a very long time.
Yet to this day the vast majority of Muslims living-in-India, though they may be moderate, are holed up in SELF-IMPOSED APARETHEID GHETTOS and generally keep contact with the ‘impure’ to a strict minimum. At the entrance to some of these ghettos one actually
sees the flag of Pakistan and not that of India.”
You know nothing of History, so I,ll make it easy for ya.
Jews in Eruope were forced into ghettos by the domoinate culture who found them inferior.
Muslims living-in-India have chosen to self-segregate themselves out of sentiments of chauvinism and superiority.
Why do India’s MUslims, many of whom appear to think their shit doesn’t stink, self -segregate, when it is clear that of all of India’s religious groups, they are, and this by far, the most backweard of all?
Is there a connection between Islam’s racism and islam’s economic and technololgical backwardness?
If you think you already possess ’sublime’ perfection, why bother learning anything, right?
| 5 January 2009, 5:54 pm |
And your not credible when you say Asghar Bukhari is a Muslim leader
But stinky, 7th century pedophiles who describe themselves as prophets are credible, right?
| 5 January 2009, 7:04 pm |
Boy, social republican you give more credit to the BNP’s analytical powers than I would.
I would say that they think the following:-
- Homosexual are nasty poofs that do weird things to each other;
- Reds, pinkos etcs are old enemies who run campaigns against them;
- Liberal establishment are those clever bastards who use words with more than 2 syllables and who have flash jobs and read and stuff;
- Other races look a bit different and dark and eat funny food. And work at jobs and earn money.
However you’ve probably been mixing with the intellectual wing of the BNP.
| 5 January 2009, 8:08 pm |
Ta, KP :)
Actually Fascists are quite into ideas and theory. They are just not very good at them. One of the mistake both opponents and anaylists have made when considering the genus is they have failed to look at what Fascists actually say. They do actually believe that the nation is heading for a terrible meta-physical mire and only by the power of willed and ruthless action can it be reborn. Griffin is quite the pseudo-intellectual as many neo-fascists. The NER consisted of little beyond various forms of analysis and is greatly read and abmired by all the ultra-nationalist movements.
There is also consistant evidence that fascist groups are cross class entities, taking from all sections of society. Fascists aren’t dumb, just like Islamists aren’t dumb, nor Bolshevik Communists. They merely believe, like a religious calling, that this is the truth, this is magic.
| 5 January 2009, 9:21 pm |
Graham Steward:
“Could it be that a significant number of UK citizens oppose immigration, further European political integration and the amputation of history? ”
I keep trying to tell Edmund that. It’s like watching a footballer trying to head the ball into the hot-dog stand while the goalmouth remains open and undefended.
| 5 January 2009, 10:11 pm |
The BNP are the greatest party in the UK. I’m a proud supproter of the BNP, and while I’m not a member just yet, I go out leafleting with them from time to time. You would be amazed at the number of people who think like we do. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with:
- Wanting Britain to remain a White majority nation.
- Not wanting to see your tax money go to fund immigrants, who have never paid taxes but turn up and are suddenly entitled to free healthcare, and their children to free education.
- Wanting to see the restoration of traditional values which Labour has eroded, as well as not wishing to see our children put into massive debt because of bailouts granted to UK companies today. The bailouts are nothing more than a case of privatising profits, but nationalising losses. Nick Griffin has promised he would not allow any bailouts.
- Not wanting to see our countries economy held by the balls by China as the British consumer becomes ever more dependant on cheap imports.
- Prioritising housing to British people over foreigners. Did you see the news story about our war heroes who gain nothing, but asylum seekers who come into this country get houses, food, and benefits, all for nothing?
Nick Griffin and the BNP will set this country back on the right track. Since the 1960’s when huge levels of immigration started, and the Labour and Conservative parties sold out the British workers, Britain has been going off the rails. The BNP will restore Britain to its state before the idiots got put in charge and ruined this country.
Let’s face it, compared to the Labour and Conservative parties, which are merely two sides of the same coin, the BNP is a fantastic party.
| 5 January 2009, 11:53 pm |
New European Right or the Nouvelle Droite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_New_Right
I have a good academic article if you fancy reading more
| 5 January 2009, 11:59 pm |
And as if by magic….
A nomic societal decline and crisis:-
‘Wanting Britain to remain a White majority nation’
‘restoration of traditional values which Labour has eroded’
‘Britain has been going off the rails’
A promise of rebirth and regeneration:-
‘Nick Griffin and the BNP will set this country back on the right track’
‘The BNP will restore Britain to its state before the idiots got put in charge and ruined this country’
Hatred of the Liberal political establishment:-
‘Labour and Conservative parties sold out the British workers’
‘the Labour and Conservative parties, which are merely two sides of the same coin’
Thanks Toby, you’ve been incredible
| 6 January 2009, 9:43 am |
I consider Jews to be part of the west in a way which muslims are not and can never be.
This would be offensive were it not so funny. Where were you 70 years ago, to identify just one point in the whole philosemite love-fest thing?
A year ago, the BNP had about 13,000 members and, in the most recent European elections, the BNP polled just under 1 million votes. How many real nazis are there in the UK i.e. those who would hold the views expressed on stromfront? I would reckon 1,000 at most.
Even Father Ted estimated that paedophile priests were only 5% of the total number. The thing is, Allan, the real hard-core Nazis tend to be in charge, close to power or happily tolerated by those who are. They certainly wrote the constitution.
You join/support such a party, you should be able to explain why we shouldn’t consider you a Nazi or Nazi appeaser. You haven’t.
| 6 January 2009, 12:02 pm |
“Where were you 70 years ago, to identify just one point in the whole philosemite love-fest thing?” AMcP
I wasn’t alive then.
On the matter of ‘nazis’, the BNP will certainly poll over 1 million votes in the forthcoming European elections. AMcP considers these voters to be ‘nazis’ which, to him, means people who are opposed to Britain becoming a minority white country. Would AMcP please explain why Britain should become a minority white country?
| 6 January 2009, 12:45 pm |
Thanks Socialrepublican - please do give me a link to the article in question.
| 6 January 2009, 4:38 pm |
SocialRepublican:
“‘restoration of traditional values which Labour has eroded’
‘Britain has been going off the rails’”
There are many people who feel that the fabric of our society is spiralling downwards, you don’t have to be a BNP member to take this view. A surprising number of young folk are getting more and more disillusioned with this.
They have noticed that we have been giving them a p*ss poor education, with no path to self-discipline and maturity. Only a fast track to helpless, hopeless, irresponsible dependance. We steep them in self-esteem, environmental mythology, diversity, and multiculturalism. We don’t really bother with history or physics or music anymore, just take them out onto the sports field, let them do whatever they bloody well want, and we’ll call that athletics.
We have not been honing the skills, the calibre, the personal integrity of our people. We have not taught them to overcome adversity, or disappointment, or to recognise opportunity and strive to achieve things on merit. We have banished rigour and standards from their lives, and we treat our young offenders, army cadets and trainee hairdressers just the same.
Our young people are proving to be the most morose, unhappy, and de-motivated youngsters in Europe, and it is our fault as a society that we allowed things to come to this. My own baby boomer generation have the most to answer for, we took all the advantages of the good society left to us by our parents, and we have been pulling up the ladder ever since.
Most of what we have done to our own population, has been destructive.
| 6 January 2009, 5:41 pm |
Monty - that is called Cultural Pessimism, it has a very long tradition, one that goes back to the lamentations of the Greeks. Oddly as a son of a early Baby boomer, i find your description of a slow degeneracy of charector and morality completely alien to both my and my peers’ experience.
Such cultural pessimism is merely one part of the weltanschuuang of fascists, the other part included the total primacy of nation, the centrality of will and the urgent possibility of temporal and social rebirth. As was clear from my multi-faceted and brief analysis of dear ol’ Tobes, one can be a cultural pessimist without being a fascist, one cannot be a fascist without out such disgust at the present.
KP - the email link on your blog seems kaput. I might be being an imbecile but do you have another. If not email me at gramsciiswatching at hotmail dot co dot uk
| 7 January 2009, 1:54 am |
Socialrepublican- saying that Britain is going off the rails doesn’t make me a fascist, it just means I have eyes and ears and can see what is going on.
It’s a fact Labour have sold out the British people. I do express disgust with them, as everyone should. Between the Iraq war killing our troops (which Griffin has promised to end), immigration eroding our culture and race (which Griffin has promised to stop) our country quickly been dictated to by the EU, in addition to costing us millions each year (Griffin has promised to pull out of the EU), and finally, the complete lack of respect Labour has shown for democracy by refusing to let us rote on the Lisbon Treaty despite promising a referendum (Griffin has said he will implement a direct democracy system, where if you get enough signatures together, a vote is held to determine your particular grievance, and if you gain 66% of the vote or more, the law you want altering shall be immediately altered without having to consult parliament) I never plan to vote Labour again.
That leaves me with a few choices. Either the Lib Dems who are just as corrupt as Labour, or the Conservatives who are more aimed at the middle classes and business owners. In addition, the Conservatives will not reduce or stop immigration in order to prevent Britain becoming a white minority nation. The Conservatives and Labour are essentially the same party. Sure, they bitch over little things like the exchange rate and whether we should build a school or a hospital, but on the issues that really matter, like immigration, the war in Iraq and the deployment of our troops in Afghanistan and true representive democracy, they have exactly the same policies.
So the BNP it is. They’re promoting common sense, and indeed, their beliefs were pretty mainstream back in the 70’s. After the 70’s things went off the rails, and the floodgates really opened with Blair in power. There’s nothing at all wrong with reactionary politics if the changes that the “liberal” establishment has made have made the country a worse place.
| 7 January 2009, 6:12 am |
’saying that Britain is going off the rails doesn’t make me a fascist’ - Indeed as I have made clear.
However you yourself then place rebirth of the nation via political action at the centre of your reply. Britain is sacralised and made holy. Identity is a demarcation between goodness and decadence. These are trademarks of palingenetic Ultra-Nationalism. You even add a little bit of leader worship too ‘Griffin will stop this, Griffin will do that, Griffin will turn back time and defeat terrible Chronos’.
And what the fuck does a ‘white majority nation’ even mean?
Go on son, read some Evola or Alain de Benoist or Junger. You’ll love them.
| 7 January 2009, 4:49 pm |
Leader worship?? It’s no more “leader” worship then if I said that Tony Blair promised to prioritise education spending when he got to power. Because he did. But do I worship Tony Blair? Hell no! The BNP’s election manifesto specficially says they will withdraw from the EU, stop immigration, and pull out of Iraq. Not “leader worship” but “facts”.
A white majority nation means a nation primarily composed of those of European (and given we’re in Britain, I would hope to be able to preserve the British majority as well) descent. But then again you knew that already and are simply trying to sidetrack the issues.
Have you even read the BNP election manifesto? Have you listened to Griffin’s plans for Britain rather than what the media tells you are Griffin’s plans for Britain?
Your definition of fascism is also incorrect. While I don’t generally like going onto the subject of whether the BNP is “fascist” or not, as it clearly is just a smear from the left, Fascism is imperialistic and authoritarian. The BNP want to stay out of the affairs of other countries and promote direct democracy. No matter how “racist” or lack thereof you think the BNP is, anyone who does not promote an authoritarian state cannot be a fascist.
You knmow when the conservative party says that “the loony left” have ruined Britain, are they fascists too? Or do you only apply that label to BNP supporters?
| 7 January 2009, 8:54 pm |
Toby, I think you misunderstand me.
Quite frankly, I stopped saying ‘X will do this, X will do that’ when I was 17. I find it impossible to think that someone might apply such earthy dignity and integrity to anyone standing for public office.
My working definition of fascism is thus: a palingenetic (as in concerned with rebirth) form of Ultra-Nationalism, no imperialism and authoritarianism - just that. Mind you, ask how a government is going to deal with something like immigration using the restrictive powers of a liberal democracy. I would actually love to hear your ideas. Frankly authoritarian is beside the point, it is the primacy of the nation, in your particular case, a ‘white’ majority nation that makes fascism and the BNP are danger to liberty and freedom. But thats beside the point.
I have read recent and past BNP election literiture as well as the ‘deeper’ stuff by Griffin and Barnbrook and others. I specialise in looking at fascism in a historical context. I repeat, go on, read some Junger, some Evola, some G Gentile, some Codreanu. You’ll love it, i assure you
As for the white majority part, so does european include Romanians, Maygars, Roma and Sinsi? I take it Jews count. Do Israeli Jews count? Do white Saffers? Americans? Just white Americans or Pueta Ricans or Afro-Americans? Australians? Native Australians? Nepalese?
I wonder what exactly counts as white to you and just as important, why that particular cutoff point. Indeed why base it on Skin pigmentation, langauge group maybe? Only Teutonic speakers? Or do the Romance and Slavic groups get a look in?
What is it about Europeans? Do Kosevans and Bosniaks count? The descendants of the Turks ejected from south-eastern Europe in the early 20th century. Or do you seek population stasis. one in, one out type of thing?
As far as I know, the Tories never insisted that Britain need a dramatic break in its political traditions and the whole system was corrupt and decadent. Margeret Thatcher never was one for anthropological rebirth, for a New Briton. Griffin is.
In the 80s, He was one of the third positionists, indeed he dabbled with Islam for a while. Big fan of Gaddafi, was our Nick. One of the primary factors he put forth was that there need to be a new form of human social actor called the political soldier, one dedicated to the nation’s resurrection. This would be the fore runner of the regenerated British race. Look in Identity, you’ll find such rhetoric strewned across its pages. You don’t find such stuff in the Torygraph
As such I call committed followers of a fascist party fascists. Oddball aren’t I
I don’t use fascists as a form of censure. It is a political ideology, one i merely consider massively wrong headed and dangerous. Don’t be ashamed, fella
| 7 January 2009, 11:09 pm |
Given that we can only go off what people say to decide who we vote on, I’ll go for the one who says that he’ll implement policies I like the sound of. If Griffin were to get to power and decide not to pull out of Iraq, however, we’d have the direct democracy system and if we got 66% of the vote or more he’d be forced to. Or any other policy that he tries to implement that the British people find objectionable. I’d rather vote for the guy who says he will do the stuff I want, then a guy who says he won’t. Sure, both could be lying, but voting for the guy who says he’ll implement policies you like is a far safer bet.
Your definition of fascism can be anything you like, but it doesn’t make it correct. Mussolini was proud of his authoritarian state, declaring “everything within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state”. If you don’t abide by those words you’re not a fascist, unless you seek to redifine the whole term. I could define “communist” as a highly nationalist, free market economy loving ideology, but I’d be wrong.
How would we deal with the problem of immigration? Quite simple: close the borders. Don’t allow immigrants into Britain to begin with. Are you suggesting that this couldn’t be enacted by legislation?
Withdrawal from the EU could be done at any point. The current Labour government could withdraw us from the EU if they wanted, without turning Britain into a dictatorship. They make up the majority of the House of Commons, and so could vote on it, and assuming there were no Labour rebels, they could win the vote and withdraw from the EU. The BNP could do the same thing if they were in power.
You say you’ve read stuff by Griffin and Barnbrook. Now, I’m not going to deny Griffin may have previously been a fascist or a fascist sympathiser. But you’d have to go a good 10 years back to get any truly “fascist” quotes out of him. The only explicit fascist sympathiser I know of in the BNP today is Mark Collett. Sure, there may well be more who have just learned to keep their mouths shut, just like there may be people in the Labour party who secretly admire Mao. But it’s the policies the ruling party implements that count, not the personal opinions of some of its members.
European surprisingly, is defined as “white”, as that is where all Whites originate from (so obviously white people who migrated to, for example, Australia, are still white). You seem to imply that whiteness is not a race, but merely dependant on the persons opinion of who is white. This is blatently false however, and one can easily determine the racial makeup of a person via DNA tests.
So no, gypsies wouldn’t be white, as they were an Indian populace that migrated to Europe. Romanians are white (notice there’s a difference between Romanians and gypsies). White South Africans are white, whether they are British or Boers. Afro-Americans aren’t white as they are a Negroid populace from Africa. Native Americans aren’t white as they are a Mongoloid populace who were originally in Asia, but crossed the land bridge to America.
Why this cut off point? Because there is a clear “cut off point” in genetic terms, say, between a Bulgarian and a Turk. Furthermore you revert to the intellectually bankrupt argument that race is just skin colour. If this were the case, forensic experts would not be able to identify someones race by DNA testing, not would we have different facial and bone structures. The Japanese have roughly the same skin colour as the British, but only a fool would say the Japanese look just the same as the British person.
Just to make things clear, however, I would not seek mass immigration of Bulgarians or Romanians to Britain either. If possible, I would like the British Isles to remain Anglo-Saxon and Celtic. If this is not possible I would of course accept limited immigration between different white ethnicities. And believe it or not, so would the BNP. It’s in their election manifesto.
Given the BNP is set to poll 1 million votes in the European elections it seems we have a lot of so-called “fascists” in this country, don’t we? Or could it be we just have a lot of people who are upset with the direction Britain and gone and want a change for the better?
| 8 January 2009, 12:23 pm |
‘Your definition of fascism can be anything you like, but it doesn’t make it correct’ - it is also the scholarly consensus.
What does race matter?
| 8 January 2009, 3:06 pm |
The scholarly consensus? Since when?? The creator of Fascism, Mussolini didn’t seem to think so. If you support democracy you cannot be a fascist. Just because anti-BNP newspapers call them fascist doesn’t make it so.
Does the BNP promote a corporative state like Mussolini did? Nope. Do they support an expansionist foreign policy? Nope. Do they want to turn Britain into a dictatorship? Nope. So they go around breaking up other parties political meetings with violence? Nope.
The only aspect of “fascism” they support is ethnic nationalism. Is Labour “communist” because they support a welfare state like communists would?
As for why race matters, take a drive through Bradford, Birmingham, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Baghdad, Kabul, or any area of sub Saharan Africa and see for yourself.
| 8 January 2009, 6:21 pm |
I wasn’t alive then.
ALLAN@ABERDEEN
That was not the substantive point and well-you-it. What you don’t realize is that real hard-core Nazis and Holocaust deniers pop-up frequently on this blog. We can recognize them.
You made an appeal to European history which, you say, demonstrates Jews to be far more a part of it than Muslims. Therefore, it becomes incumbent on you to demonstrate that the historical attitude towards Jews has been one of relative toleration and acceptance.
Why, no. No it’s not. So, either you are one of these skulking Nazis who can’t directly express his Jew-hatred, so offers tasters couched in plausible deniability, or you’re a twit. Which is it?
On the matter of ‘nazis’, the BNP will certainly poll over 1 million votes in the forthcoming European elections. AMcP considers these voters to be ‘nazis’ [...]
I said no such thing. Do try to keep up! What I did say was that voters/members are supporting a party which is run by Nazis and has Nazi-inspired policies, so should distinguish themselves from them. Do try to keep up!
*Only* 1:13 members are hard-core Nazis! And you think this makes it alright!
which, to him, means people who are opposed to Britain becoming a minority white country. Would AMcP please explain why Britain should become a minority white country?
More twaddle. Currently the non-white population is much less than 10%. Let’s have this discussion in 2150 when there’s a danger of that.
Oh, I’m sure you’re about to tell us about the urban centres or council wards (hint, a single council ward is not a country) which are ‘miscegenated hellholes’ (like Aberdeen???). Never mind, vote B.N.P. This party has always loathed these areas, regardless of inhabitants, and, for some reason, polls best in overwhelmingly white regions.
| 8 January 2009, 11:39 pm |
I’d rather discuss the issue of Whites becoming a minorty NOW, when we can still do something about it, then in 2150 when it’s much harder to do anything about it.
| 23 March 2009, 6:55 pm |
So if the bnp can make common cause with jews, as apparently the nazis can make common cause, woulld the jews support the rise of naziism in europe? And should a nazi state emerge, and follow the path of the last such state in europe, does anyone really doubt that the jews would be spared? Once they were done with the other races, would they really stop there? Or does the theme, first they came for the communist, and i did nothing because i was not a communist, ect, ect,ect not apply any more?
| 23 March 2009, 6:56 pm |
So if the bnp can make common cause with jews, as apparently the nazis can make common cause, woulld the jews support the rise of naziism in europe? And should a nazi state emerge, and follow the path of the last such state in europe, does anyone really doubt that the jews would be spared? Once they were done with the other races, would they really stop there? Or does the theme, first they came for the communist, and i did nothing because i was not a communist, ect, ect,ect not apply any more?
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