Harry’s Place

500 dead, so lets talk about some minor US left-wing sect!

Remind me, why do they call you decent again?

har

Thus ends our little tour of (part of) the revolutionary left in the United States. The comments section below is reserved for members of these groups who wish to point that one of the other ones isn’t actually revolutionary….

Re; 500 dead.

Unfortunately, people die in just wars. especially when their leaders set them up for death by using them as human shields, firing and storing weapons where they live, etc. etc. etc. etc.

If you want to pluck something, pick up a guitar, rather than heartstrings.

500 dead, so lets talk about some minor US left-wing sect!

As soon as Hamas surrenders, I’ll post the news.

400 dead in Uganda since Christmas, and you are posting comments on a blog?

I just read that 120,000 have died in a guerilla war that has been going on in the southern Philippines since the 1970s. It has nothing to do with Israel.

Yet 4 dead Israelis are worth bombing Gaza to pieces and killing hundreds?

Why are you all not demanding someone bombs the LRA?

That decent thing, where did that originate?

Gaza for the Canannites?

No, only Western nations can be imperialists. Other nations are not imperialist, they are only expanding their superior cultures.

If you want everything to be relative, anon, Israel should haphazardly fire 6000 missiles at Gaza.

“Exactly how many nations could Socialist Action extend any legitimacy to if they discount those that involved the odd bit of conquering and occupation (past and present)? Presumably, that extends to the Roman Empire and Arab conquests in the 7th century? Or does it go further?”

Idiotic. We are talking about occupations happening now.

And neither the Romans nor the Arabs expelled the people living there from their homes . The Israelis did.

And that was the bleedin 1st and 7th Century.

Gaza for the Canaanites?”

Yet 4 dead Israelis are worth bombing Gaza to pieces and killing hundreds?

It isn’t about 4 dead Israelis. It is about preventing a terrorist organisation dedicated to the annihilation of a state/people from throwing increasingly technologically advanced missiles at large proportions of citizens of a democratic state. The proportionate response is to stop the missiles. As I understand it, a large proportion of those dead are the said terrorists. Many of the others are those they have endangered by undertaking this action, and further endangered by hiding amongst.

And neither the Romans nor the Arabs expelled the people living there from their homes . The Israelis did.

Funny that, because as I remember it, the last expelling the Israelis did was the expelling of Israelis from Gaza - not Palestinians.

“Funny that, because as I remember it, the last expelling the Israelis did was the expelling of Israelis from Gaza - not Palestinians.”

Yeah and moving them to settlements on the West Bank. Funny that.

80% of Gazans are refugees who have been expelled by Israel from their land or their descendants.

Neil D
“It isn’t about 4 dead Israelis. It is about preventing a terrorist organisation dedicated to the annihilation of a state/people from throwing increasingly technologically advanced missiles at large proportions of citizens of a democratic state. The proportionate response is to stop the missile”

Or its about getting Tzipi Livni elected by showing she can kill more Arabs than Netanyahu can

80% of Gazans are refugees who have been expelled by Israel from their land or their descendants.

Yes, surely it is time for the descendants of the Sudeten Germans to start firing Chinese rockets at the Czech Republic?

Worth asking I suppose, f the group denies any legitimacy to Israel how can anyone take seriously any comments they make about that country - they can only be biased. People who deny the other’s very legitimacy are unlikely to preface their remarks “but to give a dog its due………”!

Actually I am going to do that right now in saying - “fair dos” to the US group - at least they admit it so we know where they stand and can weight their comments. So often with their European equivalents they hide behind kind of mealy mouthedness - never actually saying that Israel should dissappear but in e.g. denying it the right to defend its people making such views implicit and getting a free ride from interviewers who one hopes (!) would give them a rougher one if they appended to their nonsense about “disprortionate responses” “and Israel shouldn’t exist anyway”

“we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present.”

That means no more Iran, Russia, China or Mexico. Oh dear. I’ve more respect for those who argue that the nation state should be abolished as a political entity - which embodies liberal bourgeois capitalism - than those who pick and choose their nationalisms according to the latest left-wing vogue. That would mean saying no to both Zionism and Palestinian nationalism. Curiously, I’ve not seen that viewpoint advanced by comrades at these pro-Hamas demonstrations in London.

In defense of Socialist Action, in contrast to the even nuttier Spartacist League, they defended Solidarity in Poland, which the Sparts called a, “CIA Union.” On the other hand, Socialist Action also claims Mumia is Innocent. Though deep in the heart of Jeff Mackler, their lead guy on Mumia Defense work, I betcha’ he thinks Mumia killed the Philly Pig in self-defense.

“Socialist Action has never recognized the legitimacy of the Zionist State of Israel just we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present.”

Hold on a second. Doesn’t Socialist Action regard the Palestinian nation as ‘conquered and occupied etc’?

Doesn’t that mean they ‘reject extending legitimacy’ to the Palestinian nation?

Yes, surely it is time for the descendants of the Sudeten Germans to start firing Chinese rockets at the Czech Republic?

Under EU legislation the Südeten Germans enjoy the right to return to where they used to live if they so wish. Let us not create imaginary conflicts where there is none. Let’s focus instead on the real conflicts that remain unresolved.

Britain bombs German civilians in retaliation for innocuous V1 rockets shock horror - by Jeremy von Bowen and Gavin Eichler.

Conquest, reconquest, population exchange, resettlement etc have been occurring forever. Those that survive are those who get on with life. The Turkish Palestine in the 19thC had a few hundred thousand inhabitants at most. The populations of Israel, PA, Jordan now number tens of millions, nearly ALL of whom, including the Arabs, are descended from people who have moved in to this part of the world because it “took off” or because it provided a haven - regardless of “historical claims”.

It is too late to talk about “legitimacy”. The facts are on the ground and if both sides will accept this, work out a way of squaring up the borders, where an armistice line of 1949 is not sancrosanct, forget any nonsense of “cake and eat it” type “right of return” and then concentrate on their own internal issues, ongoing peace and even prosperity will be the result.

If one side refuses the right of the other to exist because of religious reasons or reasons of Muslim honour and behaves as Hamas has, the result is inevitable. If it (and the Islamic world) said “let’s turn our swords into ploughshares” the whole “Israel/Palestine” problem would disappear over night. It’s as simple as that.

This also applies to the Muslim and leftist protesters who have staged demonstration in the various cities. The hate they have displayed is truly beyond belief to me. I saw on TV, an English man, in his mid sixties, almost frothing at the mouth trying to come out with expletives against Israel. Apart from the “court Jews”, Israelis, Jews in general, just want to be left to get on with a peaceful life - a by product of which is the application of their abilities to advance the quality of life of all mankind.

Or do these demonstrators (the non-Arabs now), really want Jews to enjoy the life they had over 65 years ago? Is this their real agenda? Reading some of the comments in this blog makes me think this is the case.

Under EU legislation the Südeten Germans enjoy the right to return to where they used to live if they so wish.

You take the wrong lesson from this.

Imagine a Palestinian state living and trading in peace with Israel (along with other Middle Eastern states). Perhaps one day a situation might arise akin to that in the EU. How is the Hamas policy of destroying Israel ever going to achieve anything other than leave the conflict unresolved?

Let’s face it, many of the so-called Palestinian supporters in the UK would be desperately disappointed if the Palestinian people decided to seek peace as the best method of securing their destiny. Where would their anti-imperialist wet dreams be projected then?

RE: “we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present.”

Now the “past and present” portion of that quote has to be the dumbest thing i’ve heard in a while (and that’s saying a lot), especially coming from an AMERICAN group. America, Canada, hell, all of the Americas are occupied by imperialist colonizers, and some of that colonization took place within the last 120 years or so. Do they reject the legitimacy of Canada, the U.S., Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, et al. In fact, given the wide leeway of “the past”, is there anywhere on the planet they find legitimate. What a bunch of clowns.

Israel has been repeatedly offered a deal by Arab nations that it return to 1967 borders in exchange for normal relations with all arab states.

Surprise, surprise, they rejected it every time outright.

The zionist terrorist regime in Tel Aviv does not want peace and never has done. At every stage, whether under Carter or Clinton, they have engineered obstacles and imposed unreasonable preconditions. Israeli dreams and plans are much wider than the annihilation of Palestine. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion expose all.

Lets all remind ourselves again:
How many rockets were lobbed on jews prior to 1967?
How many suicide bombers were sent to jews prior to 1967?

If you answered zero to both questions, pat yourself on the back.

Alcuin :)
that’s a great satire

you’ll get top marks for putting “zionist terrorist” in virtually every sentence you write. But you actually believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is real? And you think WE’RE stupid?

Goodnight Irene

vildechaye , why dont YOU read the Protocols which record the meetings of the zionists and tell me WHICH (if any) of the Protocols are not being enacted by zionist around the world?

You guys keep claiming its false, but you NEVER EVER answer the question of why the contents of the Protocols is being put into action by jews worldwide.

“Socialist Action has never recognized the legitimacy of the Zionist State of Israel just we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present.”

Well, if Socialist Action regards the Palestinian nation as ‘conquered and occupied etc’, doesn’t that mean they ‘reject extending any legitimacy’ to it?

I’m glad you’ve shed the Zionist mask and going after Jews now. It’s refreshing to deal with someone who’s honest about their anti-semitism.
The Protocols have LONG been proven to be a forgery by the Czarist police, and in fact most of it was copied from

The Protocols are a complete forgery most of which was copied from an obscure satire on Napoleon III by Maurice Joly called “Dialogue aux Enfers entre Montesquieu et Machiavel” (”A Dialogue in Hell Between Montesquieu and Machiavelli”).

But I’d like to thank you for laying your Jewish conspiracy theories on the table because now i can happily ignore you. I don’t debate the Stormfront crowd, and you fit right in. I suspect you’re going to draw abuse even from HB and Hypo et al for your absurd racist remarks.

Goodnight Irene and goodbye

Street protests about matters of international politics don’t seem to have any kind of effect on what happens in the real world. Whatever one thinks about the invasion of Iraq, the European street protests were pretty huge, much larger than any of those taking place right now against Israel’s actions in Gaza. Not even hundreds of thousands of protesters taking to the streets in London or Paris or even NY stopped the US from conquering Baghdad. The same applies to those protests against Israeli operation Deffensive Shield in 2001 (a basically successfull operation, btw, that put an end to the second intifadah and to most Palesinian suicide bombings, contradicting the stupid dogma according to which military solutions can never work). Thus, street protests must have more to do with theatre, narcisism or psychology than with any kind of real, grown-up politics. The last time I remember when people took to the streets and their actions changed something on the ground was in the late 80s, in East Germany and other communist countries. When tens of thousands of Cubans begin to protest in Havana, then we’ll see some important change where it matters, that is, in Cuba itself. But to think that a couple of thousands of Londoners (or Parisians or Porteños) shouting their silly slogans can mean or change something in Israel or Gaza, well, that’s simply foolish, maybe a new kind of magical thinking.

Funny. There used to be a real empire, a cruel expansionist empire that, among other lands, unlawfully conquered and occupied the Middle East (and, thus, Palestine) for centuries. That empire exploited its subjects, dealt very bloodily with any kind of resistence and was commanded by people who came from very far away, spoke s strange language, had no sympathy for the native inhabitants of the regions it conquered and no kind of legitimacy. The makers of that empire were an ethnic group whose language wasn’t spoken by most of their subjects and whose religion was practiced only by a minority of them. Even so, the majority of the anti-imperialists seldom have a negative word to say about that empire, though we stil live with the consequences of its misrule, corruption and cruelty. I’m obviously talking about the Ottoman empire and its legacy.

Obama needs to look at the UN. They are protecting Mugabe and Bashir. The torturers should be excluded. My predictions for 2009. Obama will persuade the UN. to take over Arab Oil and distribute some of it free to the developing world. He will also force globalization on Mecca and Medina, allowing the return of the Jews and Gentiles. The Archibishop of Canterbury and George Galloway are organising a non demonational peace March to Mecca. There will be a gay pride march around the Kaba, twice daily with Salam Rushdie reading from his latest book.

“Or its about getting Tzipi Livni elected by showing she can kill more Arabs than Netanyahu can.”

HPHypocrite -
It’s beyond tragic to see that you seriously consider that the Israeli electorate in general consider the criteria of “killing more Arabs than other contenders” as primary to their political decisions. If you subscribe to such a malformed perception of Israelis I cannot see how you expect anyone to take you seriously when you comment on the conflict?

“Israel has been repeatedly offered a deal by Arab nations that it return to 1967 borders in exchange for normal relations with all arab states.

Surprise, surprise, they rejected it every time outright.”

Irene -
Aside from the particularly foolish and hateful subscription (on your part) to belief in the Protocols you have deliberately misled people with your comment above. The Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 (I presume that this is what your referring to?) contains references to not only the ‘67 borders but other issues too and is quite complex. It does you no service to partially reference the matter as it indicates that you haven’t read the whole document itself, which would display ignorance, or you disregard the points that are important to the people who framed it, which would display a staggering arrogance on your part, or you are deliberately misleading people in an attempt to make a cheap point in a discussion.

“Under EU legislation the Südeten Germans enjoy the right to return to where they used to live if they so wish. Let us not create imaginary conflicts where there is none. Let’s focus instead on the real conflicts that remain unresolved.”

HasbaraBuster -
Aside from the woeful (as per usual) demonstration of lack of knowledge on this topic its good to consider that the the reason there is no direct conflict here is because the ethnic Germans didn’t set up an enclave bordering on the Czech Republic and fire rockets across the border all the time…

Irene,

Do a web search and you will find thousands of examples of
terror attacks committed by Arabs - Palestinian and other -
against Israeli civilians between 1949 and 1967.

Suicide bombings weren’t used until they were invented
by the Tamil Tigers. However rocket attacks, along with
mortar attacks were very common in the pre-1967 past.

Do some work before spouting your falsehoods. Do some
work now. List at least 10 reputable websites posting
scholarly - peer reviewed papers - stating there were ZERO
terror attacks on Israel pre-1967. If you are unable to do
so I’d suggest you go back to stchupping your Palestinian
boy friend.

And Jimmythedhimmi’s peace marchers will meet in front of Mecca’s main kosher McDonald’s where they will be greeted by the town’s lesbian mayor.

Teller Of Truths,

next Irene will say that the root cause of the attacks you mention was the creation of Israel. So, let us not forget that (illegal and atrocious) attacks by Arabs against both native Jews and Jewish refugees and/or immigrants in the region started much, much earlier.

There are xenophobes who hate refugees and immigrants anywhere, but the Arabs of Palestine were probably one of the few groups that actually went to war (between 1936-39) to try (rather succesfully) to keep refugees and immigrants out.

Then their leader, the Mufti of Jerusalem, asked the Germans to actually kill all those refugees and immigrants before they reached the Middle East.

So, what is the difference between them and, say, the BNP or any other group that wants to expell immigrants and refugees from Europe?

And lets not forget either that those Arabs who moved from one part of Palestine to another part of Palestine or to neighbouring Arab speaking, Muslim countries did it because their leadership illegally rejected the partition of Palestine, the creation there of two states and because Israel was then illegaly attacked by the armies of several Arab countries. They are, thus, the victims of an illegal war illegaly started and illegaly continued by themselves and their brothers.

The goals of Hamas are illegal and this makes it a criminal organization.

Why are you guys still engaging this blatant anti-semite who believes in and wants everybody else to believe in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? Do you need to know more. Do you debate Nazis or Klansmen? Let her crawl back under the rock from which she came.

“Under EU legislation the Südeten Germans enjoy the right to return to where they used to live if they so wish. Let us not create imaginary conflicts where there is none. Let’s focus instead on the real conflicts that remain unresolved.” HB

Spoken like a true Argentian (or is Argentinian German?).

It’s not just the right of Germans to return to the Sudeten, it’s their right to go expel the people who live in their homes and for the Germans to get back those parts of Poland which used to belong to it.

Not to mention the rights of Greeks and Turks to return to their former homes.

Our hateful and stupid Argentinian antisemite doesn’t get it.

And what about the Indian nations in the Argentines who were murdered. How about bringing them back.

You still haven’t answered the question about your role in the bombing of the Jewish centers in Buenos Aires bigot!

Irene must HB’s sister:

“You guys keep claiming its false, but you NEVER EVER answer the question of why the contents of the Protocols is being put into action by jews worldwide.”

What a laugh.

And she also believes in Nostradamus’ predictions, I am sure.

Seriously, Neil D, why do you let a crazy woman like Irene post here?

Having hasbarah buster and hphypocrite should be enough to show people that HP does believe in free speech.

Irene belongs in a mental hospital, really.

Joseph “Abu Nawas” Massad

Just saw the TV images of an Israeli soldier’s funeral. No loonies screaming ‘death to all Arabs’, no mad Irene’s…just sorrowful dignity.

I thought I was just fantasizing when I wrote on HP recently, that if I were a Palestinian, I would ask Israel to stay and help etc. Well there is a Palestinian who says exactly that on the Arabs for Israel site.

“This is not a crisis over land. It is a crisis of the soul; a crisis in our faith, judgement and self confidence. Israel should not be regarded as an enemy, but as a blessing to our neighborhood. We need not fear peace, but embrace it.” Nonie Darwish

From the Huffington Post:
“Nonie Darwish, who was raised in the Gaza Strip, moved to Egypt after her father, who lead the fedayeen guerilla operations against Israel, was assassinated by the Israel Defense Forces in 1956 and then moved to United States, is a freelance writer, public speaker and interpreter.”

Irene, I’ve read a few of your posts. You are quite clearly an unhinged lunatic. The more interesting thing, as Gene observed, is why so few people who take a similar position on Israel as you do are disowning your rabid frothing.

Point of information about the ‘Protocols’. Most of the text began life as an attack on the French Emperor Napoleon III. A Russian then added in some bits.

Seriously, Neil D, why do you let a crazy woman like Irene post here?

She’s good for a laugh, if anything.

Felix she’s also a Murtad. If you hadn’t nailed ‘er to the perch she’d be pushing up the daisies! She’s off the twig! THIS IS AN EX MUSLIM!

Compared to the kind of individuals hosted by Neil Clark, Irene is a rather gentle and kindly soul, philosemitic even.

A few of the comments posted at Neil Clark’s blog recently by one of that gentleman’s close friends:

“Does Israel have the right to defend itself? I don’t accept that ‘it’ does, or that it has a ‘right’ to exist.”

“The Israelis are nazi scum - they have no right to anything. Those who apologise for them, like Neil Craig, our government, the ‘Friends of Israel’, nearly all jewish organisations, the owners, managers and editors of our media - all these should be tried for aiding and abetting crimes against humanity, not to mention treason.”

http://tinyurl.com/axe7f2

‘we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present’

Would that include Hamas, then?

Their Charter states:

‘The Islamic Resistance Movement maintains that the land of Palestine is Waqf land given as endowment for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection … [I]t is like any other land that the Muslims have conquered by force, because the Muslims consecrated it at the time of the conquest as religious endowment for all generations of Muslims until the Day of Resurrection’.

Irene, I’ve read a few of your posts. You are quite clearly an unhinged lunatic. The more interesting thing, as Gene observed, is why so few people who take a similar position on Israel as you do are disowning your rabid frothing.

Well; the answer, at least in my case, is simple: I don’t respond to deranged people.

If someone attempted to justify suicide bombings, deploying some tortured tit-for-tat or cause-and-effect logic, I would feel compelled to debunk such pseudo-rational discourse.

But bringing up the Protocols is not rational or pseudo-rational; it’s simply idiotic, and I don’t waste my time on idiots.

Why don’t we “disown” Irene? For the same reason that the “mainstream” HP didn’t disavow the guy who claimed that the Irgun attacked British military targets only.

“Felix she’s also a Murtad. If you hadn’t nailed ‘er to the perch she’d be pushing up the daisies! She’s off the twig! THIS IS AN EX MUSLIM!” says Josh Scholar about Nonie Darwish.

I don’t care what she is, it’s what she became that matters. In any case, she grew up in Gaza, was indoctrinated as a Muslim, her father killed by the Israelis AND she’s a woman, therefore would have been a muzzled Muslim. I’d be a Murtad in her place as well. Long live those whose conscience awakens! Admitterdly I don’t know much else about her, but she seems O.K. on her site. Evangelical Christian - could be worse.

Off-topic: A Christian organisation is holding a pro-Israel rally in London (outside the Israeli Embassy) on Wednesday 14 January from 12 noon -3pm. This is the first pro-Israel rally to be arranged in London since the Gaza operation began on December 27.

The stated aim of the demo is ‘a pro-Israel rally to call for peace”

The organiser is Good Shepherds Movement; the Campaign slogan: ‘Try Peace’

“we reject extending any legitimacy to nations conquered and occupied by imperialist colonizers anywhere in the world, past and present.”

Which is pretty much every country in the world. All of the Americas and Australia for obvious starters. At least Europe would solve it’s birth rate problems due to a mass influx of billions of people…

Martin said:”Off-topic: A Christian organisation is holding a pro-Israel rally in London (outside the Israeli Embassy) on Wednesday 14 January from 12 noon -3pm. This is the first pro-Israel rally to be arranged in London since the Gaza operation began on December 27.

The stated aim of the demo is ‘a pro-Israel rally to call for peace”

The organiser is Good Shepherds Movement; the Campaign slogan: ‘Try Peace’”

Do you have any contact details etc for this demo.

Seriously, Neil D, why do you let a crazy woman like Irene post here?

1. She is new to me.

2. I require sleep and her rantings occured after my bedtime.

3. She is obviously a loon and has been taken apart in the comments. If I delete her now, the whole thread will look strange.

Neil D said:”3. She is obviously a loon and has been taken apart in the comments. If I delete her now, the whole thread will look strange.”

Good point. Sometimes its good to leave the loonspuds deranged rantings in place if only to show people what a loonspud is and does.

Thanks for posting this! Can I please have the 2 hours I spent surfing Wikipedia and sectarian left sites back now?

Cheers mate!

The difference between Hamas and Nazis:

http://pajamasmedia.com/ronrosenbaum/2009/01/04/some-differences-between-hamas-and-the-nazi-party-2/

And neither the Romans nor the Arabs expelled the people living there from their homes.

Nonsense, the arab invasions created MILLIONS of refugees and wiped out all sorts of indigenous cultures. In the case of The Berbers, this ethnic cleansing continues to this day.

And unlike the superior Romans, the Arabs brought no culture, no technology, no innovation whatsoever, and no concept of a civil society.

Those who were subjegated became backward.

You know nothing of Arabo/Muslim history.

This is from a redbedhead who is currently posting an article on Lenin’s Tomb.

He implicitly acknowledges Israel’s goals in Gaza are not Nazi, but that Israel’s withdrawing would simply lead to the rockets’ beginning again.

If Israel cannot achieve her tactical or strategic goals in Gaza, would should she do? he/she asks but does not answer:

“And the point is that if Israel is unable to get Hamas to agree to surrender - do they just pull out, knowing that the rockets will start up again? Or do they stay and become targets and risk rapidly losing support in an expensive military operation that can never win - bar the total expulsion and/or extermination of the local population?
As to the Warsaw Ghetto - this is where it is different. The Nazis intended to eliminate the entire population. There were few political considerations (other than victory), it was all simply military - how to weaken any possibility of resistance; and then completely flatten the Ghetto and kill everyone still inside.
redbedhead | Homepage | 5 Jan, 15:53 | # “

Oh, here is the article (the quotation is from the comments beneath):

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2009/01/gaza-could-israel-lose.html

“This is not a crisis over land. It is a crisis of the soul; a crisis in our faith, judgement and self confidence. Israel should not be regarded as an enemy, but as a blessing to our neighborhood. We need not fear peace, but embrace it.” Nonie Darwish

She’s right on a certain level. And as with most ex-muslims she’s able to make sense of it all. Magdi Allam, another ex-Muslim, is an extremly gifted observer as well.

HPHypocrite,

“And neither the Romans nor the Arabs expelled the people living there from their homes”

Hypocrite, how do you think the province of Syria Palaestina was created?

The Quran and Hadiths assume the Jews were dispossessed of temple, city and land as a punishment for their rejection and the prophets.

Muhammed called for Jews as well as Christians to be transferred from the Hijaz.

referring back to the LT redbedhead thread (rhyme!), Chaz has an interesting response:

“I have heard quite a logical argument that, contrary to popular opinion, Israel won the Lebanon war, and is repeating the same thing Gaza.

It argument goes that whilst Israel was not able to “eliminate” Hezbollah, the huge destruction it caused to Hezbollah’s parts of Lebanon has left that organisation very wary of repeating attacks on Israel, because they would not have the permission of their population.

This does seem to be backed up by the fact that Hezbollah hasn’t fired any rockets or attempted any border raids in solidarity with Hamas, which you may remember was how that conflict started the last time.

If they can go in and flatten parts of Gaza, then although Hamas will claim victory when they are not completely destroyed, when the troops have gone and the dust has settled, they won’t dare sacrifice their own people again, knowing it could see them overthrown.
Chaz | 5 Jan, 17:28 | # “

It’s no use pretending any more. Irene, of course, is right about the Protocols. In fact it’s all been revealed in song– and a catchy one too.

He’s good live too.

zkharya - This does seem to be backed up by the fact that Hezbollah hasn’t fired any rockets or attempted any border raids in solidarity with Hamas, which you may remember was how that conflict started the last time.

It’s not only that BUT, Hizbollah makes a very loud point every time that something possibly aggressive is discovered in the UN administered parts of Southern Lebanon, it claims at great length that it is not responsible. Almost hysterical in fact, in announcing to all who want to hear and don’t want to hear, that it Hizbollah, has nothing to do with the act. And Nasrallah, the Prophet’s personal representative in Lebanon, still keeps his whereabouts secret.

The obvious improvement in the ‘Gaza’ performance of the IDF command decisions is not helping Hizbollah either.

However, I feel that we will still have an awful blood price to pay.

Of course the Protocols are relevant to the Gaza Holocaust given media bias by CNN, Fox Sky and the BBC and the disregard by Israel of its own Supreme Court by preventing foreign journalist (except 8 handpicked zionist suppporters) from entering Gaza.

PROTOCOL 12 “WE CONTROL THE PRESS”
“NOT A SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT WILL REACH THE PUBLIC WITHOUT OUR CONTROL. Even now this is already being attained by us inasmuch as all news items are received by a few agencies, in whose offices they are focused from all parts of the world. These agencies will then be already entirely ours and will give publicity only to what we dictate to them.”

If anyone has been watching Fox, Sky etc, the above paragraph should explain their coverage. And the comments about deleting my posts are further examples of zionist who wish to control everything and oppress freee speech and counter opinion.

Again, why do zionists resort to abuse when they cant argue their case - STILL not one of you has answered the question - If the Protocols are a forgery, how do you explain them being enacted by zionists worldwide?

Another response from michael rosen:

“I don’t see things looking good for the Israelis at all. As long as they fight an air war they can’t eliminate the rockets. If they start a ground war, they will be defeated on the ground in the streets of Gaza and/or excoriated by the millions the world over. If they withdraw and the rockets still come, this will be seen by many, Israelis included, as a defeat.

If Obama (and his real allies) want to make any kind of break with previous US policy on Israel, this moment provides as good a moment as any. Small wonder he’s being quiet-ish. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was waiting for Israel to skewer itself, and a new US could go in and play the hero and secure some kind of two-state interim peace.
Michael Rosen | Homepage | 5 Jan, 18:43 | # “

I’ve confessed, Irene. Why are you still banging on about it?

Is there no mental healthcare available on the NHS in your region, Irene?

“…Under EU legislation the Südeten Germans enjoy the right to return to where they used to live if they so wish. ”

The Sudeten Germans were instrumental in the execution of the Czech holocaust, which took the lives of 80000 Czech Jews.

This is their reward.

http://trypeacecampaign.blogspot.com/
Dear friends,

The Israel solidarity rally today 14th Jan.2009 in London was a great success.

Thank you for your support

Good Shepherds Movement
Try peace campaign

The Israel solidarity rally today 14th Jan.2009 in London was a great success. Thank you for your support

The Israel solidarity rally today 14th Jan.2009 in London was a great success. Thank you for your support