Harry’s Place

As I and someone else said in the other thread, can we really be sure this soap-dodging museli-munching wacky-backy-smoking demonstration-goer isn’t just taking the piss out of his fellow marchers? Is it possible to be so stupid that you take the Borat character as your antisemitic inspiration? You would just be taking the piss out of yourself.

Life imitates art :-(

He’s either an infiltrator - or a dummy with no sense of humour who thought that Borat’s antics with Joo-haters in American were genuine. Djenkuje.

How typical of the likes of DarrenRedstar to say anti-zionism is anti-semitic! As the SPGB wrote back in 1991:

“Socialists and Zionists have been opponents since the beginning. Inevitably, as they represented two incompatible views as to the solution workers of Jewish background should seek to the problem of anti-semitism.

The Socialist attitude was expressed early on by Karl Marx, himself of course of Jewish background even though brought up a Christian. In one of his first articles after becoming a Socialist Marx argued that Jewish people should seek emancipation, not as Jews, but as human beings. To do this they should abandon their religion - just as Christians should abandon theirs - and become members of a secular human community in which money and the state should be abolished, i.e. Socialism. In the meantime, under capitalism, Jews should enjoy the same political rights, in a secular democratic state, as Christians and others.

The Zionist movement propounded the opposite view: that the Jews were a separate nation and that as such they were entitled to their own state, in Palestine. People of Jewish background should not seek emancipation as human beings, but as Jews. Neither should they seek integration within the political states in which they found themselves, but separation in a state of their own.

The battles lines were thus drawn and throughout Europe and America Socialists and Zionists vied for the support of workers of Jewish background. Socialists argued against the idea that the Jews were a nation or a race; most Jews were workers and should join with other workers to achieve socialism which would mean “the emancipation of all mankind without distinction of race or sex”. Even though many Zionists were not religious, all they had to go on to justify Palestine as the place for their Jewish State was an irrational belief, the religious myth set out in some holy book that the Jewish God had given Palestine to the Jews to be their homeland.”

I would go with “dummy”.

From Borat to the Saudi Reporter

Or what all the fun and games that reactionary Leftists indulge in leads to.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYr2ZyCH8s

I am glad we have in Austria a law against incitement. No musician would dare to sing such an incitement in a pub or in public.

Maybe he meant “Transport”?

It’s obviously a subtle critique of Gaza’s closed borders…an indictment of Egypt’s hypocrisy etc.

Sasha Cohen is Jewish before you get off your trollies.

His Borat character (first seen on the Ali G show) is deliberately offensive to everyone.

Is the video supposed to be big and clever?

ps. He was taking the piss out of country rednecks in this clip; note the yee-hars and handclaps and sing along from the Southern States!

Those dumb rednech shits didn’t realise they were the joke

‘These people’ are at war: it makes you wonder why Johng bothers with the pretense of wanting to discuss anything. His words are a bit like Qassems: erratic, full of huff and puff, but genuinely seeking out a ‘Zionist’ to ‘deconstruct’, nonetheless.

It makes you wonder how anyone at Seymour’s Place can, with straight face, criticise the Police’ concern with security.

“I suppose bombing UN buildings is as much a part of a venerable IDF tradition as the obediant regaling of absurd and obviously made up on the hoof justifications for it. Well done HP. You’ve surpassed yourself.”

I think Johng is saying both the Jerusalem Post and Harry’s Place (in whatsoever he says that consists) is the IDF. Well, Cloughley did say British Jews who express quite normative sympathies for the Jewish state of Israel were not British. And that is rather the tenor of both some of the radical and not so radical at Seymour’s Place.

In any case, it is quite clear that Mr Game is spoiling or spitting for a fight. I suggest we do not give it to him.

So, John, still stalking the Jews here who express quite normative sympathies with Israel, again?

Why don’t you again post your response to Israeli Jewish students expressing quite normative sympathies for the IDF, your Dov Weinglass quote at LT, inviting the Jews here back to your ‘killing ground’ at Seymour’s Place? After all, as you wrote, ‘a Zionist is a Zionist’.

Well, carry on getting all inspired at your militant sieges of the Israeli embassy and elsewhere, attempting to intimidate British ‘Zionists’ (at which you may well succeed -in which case, congratulations: you win tonight’s booby prize).

spgb gray
7 January 2009, 3:09 pm

“Sasha Cohen is Jewish before you get off your trollies. His Borat character (first seen on the Ali G show) is deliberately offensive to everyone.”

Jeez, what is it about these dull old Trots that they think they are the only people that understand anything. Karl is a nice old boy living overseas somewhere (Austria). Forgive him if he’s not familiar with the talents of Mr Cohen.

I suspect everyone else gets the Borat joke.

Thats not really what the post is about though (unless you think the bloke in the dreads is Baron-Cohen?)

MattG

SPGB - “Socialists and Zionists have been opponents since the beginning. ”

You just don’t get it at all, do you? Israel was built by socialist zionists. Ever heard of Israeli collective farms, i.e. kibbutzim? Why do think the communist block, not the West, voted to support the creation of Israel in 1947?

For what it’s worth, socialist zionists believed in developing the land together with the Palestinians. What might have been if that nazi, Amin Husseini, hadn’t intervened?

spgb Gray

I just visited your blog.

“The real solution to the continuing carnage in Gaza and the wider area is for Palestinians and Israeli workers to understand their class position and recognise they have more in common with one another than they do with their ruling classes, be they Israeli or Hamas. Two States, One State or similar is not a solution. Zionism and other nationalisms (compounded by religious superstitions) only divide the working class.”

How old are you, fourteen?

MattG

No musician would dare to sing such an incitement in a pub or in public.

I’m looking forward to his next film ‘Bruno’ about the gay Austrian fashion critic. Apparently he lures a bunch of rednecks to a wrestling match, only to treat them to some live gay sex. Sasha and the rest of the crew had to run for it when the crowd turned nasty, after about 10 seconds.

Okay, seen your pic. You are not fourteen.

I suppose, unlike many here, you do at least have a theory or a way forward.

Even if it is a load of old bo**ocks.

MattG

Me too Greg.

Im hoping to see it premiered in Tehran ;-0

MattG

When I say wrestling match, I think I mean cage fight. Imagine their surprise.

rednech?

Just curious, from a linguistic perspective, where are you from? And where did you get “nech” from?

I suspect everyone else gets the Borat joke.

I think you’re wrong, most Palestinians and all Islamists wouldnt get the joke. That is the whole point. Anti-Semetism is alive and well in all Islamic countries and amongst most of teh reactionary Left - which is the Left today.

Here is the link I posted above of a Saudi reportage.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GEYr2ZyCH8s

How many articles have you read in the Guardian that report of establishment anti-semetism throughout Arab and Muslim communities.

For that matter how much longer before we get BBC reporters asking English people whether they would shake hands with Jews.

Socialism and Zionism have been at loggerhead since the creation of Israel and Socialism lost.

That is what Socialists really hate about Israel.

Jews do not need Socialism anymore than they need to convert to any other religion.

Is Borat too on the list?

“Report: Islamist site compiling list of U.K. Jews to target over Gaza op ” By Haaretz Service

“An Islamic extremist Web site is believed to be drawing up a list of prominent British Jews to target over Israel’s offensive against Hamas in Gaza, The Sun reported on Wednesday.

According to the British newspaper, Amy Winehouse record producer Mark Ronson and Foreign Secretary David Miliband were among names discussed on the online forum Ummah. ”

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1053520.html

btw: Has there ever been a war in which one side targeted civilians in a third country because of their nationality or religion?

Only silly billies treat Socialism and Zionism as homogeneous blocs of opinion!

MattG

no, not fourteen. Fourteen and a few hundred months old actually.

Instead of the snide remark, why not give a constructive criticism? I don’t see any peace unless Palestinian and Israeli workers view themselves as fellows, and as fellows with the rest of us around the world and thus cooperate, as one human race - with the Earth as our home.

I mentioned Borat in case somebody is unfamiliar with Sasha’s Ali G, Borat, etc. Fair thing to do?

Shmuel

“rednech” was a typo. Soz about that. It happens.

SPGB - other countries previously at war with each have managed to establish harmonious relations without both becoming communist utopias.

Classic HP. Pick out one twat amidst thousands and extrapolate.

Yes, theat dreadlocked prick was speaking for all of us.

Nail on the head as usual, chaps.

one twat amidst thousands

Indeed.

damn now that catchy ditty is lodged in my brain again and I can’t get it out

Tevya

the kibbutzes are not what I would call socialism. (I’ve mentioned this in another HP blog thread.)

It’s worthy of note that bit about the USSR supporting Zionism and Israel, before going over to support Arab Nations, whilst the USA went behind the fledgeling Israeli State. That Cold War, power politics, seems to have been forgotten since the disintegration of Soviet Russia.

SPGB - “I don’t see any peace unless Palestinian and Israeli workers view themselves as fellows, and as fellows with the rest of us around the world and thus cooperate, as one human race - with the Earth as our home.”

That’s why so many people think that the heart of the problem preventing peace is the eliminationist anti-semitism held by the likes of Amin Husseini in the past, and Hamas now.

Kool Aid

I don’t doubt capitalist countries achieve peace (through pieces of people)…until the next time.

I still think Harry’s Place should have Slayer’s “War Ensamble” as its theme song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpMuCrbxE8A

Ceasefire coming brokered by Sarkosy according to BBC.

Thank God for that.

Can we now get back to discussing the implosion of the SWP ?

Or the state of English cricket ?

“Cold War, power politics, seems to have been forgotten since the disintegration of Soviet Russia.”

True, but I think the point was always over-stated at the time. Some people thought that the Arab-Israeli dispute would go away automatically when the cold war ended.

The 1947 vote was driven by a wish to embarass the Brits as part of the nascent cold war, but was also driven by genuine ideological connections and a belief that Israel would align with the communist block.

Re collective farms, I agree in relation to modern kibbutzim but not in relation to say 1920-1970, and certainly not in relation to the twenties and thirties. See the entry on Ber Borochov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ber_Borochov by the way, a key ideologue who returned to Russia in 1917 to support the bolsheviks.

one twat amidst thousands

Indeed.

… Ha Ha Ha !

when spgb gray, declares that socialism and zionism have been opponents since the beginning; he may be mistaking socialism with his own narrow sect; who have been famously opposed to absolutely everyone else since their inspiration.
I am at a loss at what he means by ‘the likes of darren redstar’.
perhaps he doesn’t like that I nicked an article from socialist standard on economic crisis and the collapse of capitalism.
or maybe he thinks I am a zionist, which I am not, which a quick perusal of other items on my blog would show http://redstarcommando.blogspot.com/search?q=hezbollocks
what I am is sickened by is the politics of anti- zionism which combines leninist power worship with a large dollop of anti semitism, as the old pro soviet arab nationalisms have faded into history and the Islamist movements have become the main opposition within the middle east, that anti semitism has become more prominent and naked.

Giant-Protest-Puppet-carrying idiots believe that Borat is a real documentary. Which is kind of the point Sasha Cohen was making.

Just a small note on logic.

The claim anti-zionism is not anti-semitic is not invalidated by showing the existence of an anti-semitic anti-zionist.

The Borat song still terrifies me. The “socialist” with the banner is clearly a “national socialist”.

As a non-Jew I am thoroughly ashamed that anti-semitism has been so energetically embraced by the Left in the UK.

Just a note, as well, we can’t exclude the possibility that someone with English as a second language made a genuine grammatical error on a banner - seen enough of those…

Dear me. I hope Sacha Baron Cohen reads this post and comments. They are a hoot.

SPGB - “Socialists and Zionists have been opponents since the beginning. ”

You certainly don’t seem to know Ber Borochov, who created a synthesis of Zionism and Socialism that actually worked. When the stupid trostkysts and communists can only show failures and murders respectively, Borochovians created a network of schools, kibbutzim, several parties and many leaders in the Jewish community. I am honored to have been educated in a Jewish school founded by Borochovians who were sitting in jail in Argentina when they thought about the idea.

Benji

Most Jewish people don’t find the genocidal racism directed at them particularly surprising, although we do try to deal with the situation with humour.

cf: Sacha Baron Cohen’s comedy.

“An Islamic extremist Web site is believed to be drawing up a list of prominent British Jews to target over Israel’s offensive against Hamas in Gaza, The Sun reported on Wednesday.”

Brilliant! Some morons on a forum start naming British Jews, and suddenly that becomes a legitimate plot to target these people by Islamic Extremists! You couldnt make it up, as some fat hack once said

Labor Zionism, hey, Fabian? Them were the days…

No, I’m sorry, as I said on the other thread, if that really is a Borat reference, then the guy MUST be taking the piss. Reading this flag to suggest that the crusty left is anti-semitic just doesn’t make any sense. There are other things out there that may prompt one to reach that conclusion but not this. Jeez, let’s keep our heads on heere!

I watched the Borat movie in Israel and they didn’t get it. My wife and I were the only people laughing.

They were wondering, I think, “Why is that guy saying he’s from Kazakhstan while speaking accented Hebrew to all these stupid Americans? How odd.”

Yes, and a brilliant comic artist Sacha Baron Cohen is too, David.
I await Bruno with anticipation.

“then the guy MUST be taking the piss”

It is possible that he is making fun of the anti-Israel crowd. I see that as the less likely possibility though.

Hi Daz

the famous opposition you note is the clause in SPGB principles that states hostility to parties (avowdly capitalist or seemingly pro-labour). The SPGB isn’t against socialists, it’s against, in this case, labour fakers. The Bolsheviks murdered workers and we oppose those who lionise the Bolsheviks. Are we wrong for doing so? We oppose the Labour Party, who are looking after the capitalist system. Even “Have I Got News for You” question Labour’s socialist credentials. Are we wrong for opposing Labour?

It’s complete BS on your part. You want socialism to mean everything you want it to mean; the result, the word means nothing.

I had this debate with HP regular Graham not so long ago in a post passim. The SPGB is not making its definition of socialism the only definition of socialism because its definition of socialism was widely held back in 1904. Liars and the deceitful (yourself DR?) have sought to twist the definition of socialism.

I think the guy holding the flag “got the joke,” but still believed it was an appropriate comment on the situation.

spgb gray
7 January 2009, 3:37 pm

“MattG
no, not fourteen. Fourteen and a few hundred months old actually.
Instead of the snide remark, why not give a constructive criticism?”

Fair enough. The main problems I see are firstly the make-up of Israeli society. I have lived in Israel. There are, of course, haves and have nots (like any society), but it is not a very class driven society (IMHO). So in Government and the higher echelons of the military you don’t have a group of priveledged individuals to the extent that you would have in the UK. One of the results of compulsory military service is that it is a lot harder for any type of ‘Workers vs The Rest’ class divide. The idea that the Israeli working class is being led astray by leaders who have nothing in common with them is simply not true.

More fundamentally, the religous aspects of the dispute make your scenario rather idealistic. Militant Islam will not go away, even if all the workers give eachother hugs.

There is nothing wrong with idealism. But is very unlikely, in this case, to help a great deal. I do at least prefer idealism and wishful thinking to they type of knee-jerk hatred that you see on these threads though.

MattG

bingo!

Gene
7 January 2009, 4:42 pm
“I think the guy holding the flag “got the joke,” but still believed it was an appropriate comment on the situation.”

That was my understanding and I assumed was the point of Darren’s post. But as usual the comments got messy.

mattG

At least the international community managed to stop Israel for 3 hours, hope it holds indefinetly.

What’s the prize, David?

“I think the guy holding the flag “got the joke,” but still believed it was an appropriate comment on the situation.”

Wow and to think you are wasting your mind reading skills by writing on this silly website, don’t you think your govt has better use for you elsewhere?

Left Poalei Tzion, Benji.

Wow and to think you are wasting your mind reading skills by writing on this silly website, don’t you think your govt has better use for you elsewhere?

How do you use your mind-reading skills?

Which is kind of the point Sasha Cohen was making

Sasha Cohen is an American figure skater. I am not sure what her stance on the Arab/Israeli conflict is.

No, I’m sorry, as I said on the other thread, if that really is a Borat reference, then the guy MUST be taking the piss. Reading this flag to suggest that the crusty left is anti-semitic just doesn’t make any sense. There are other things out there that may prompt one to reach that conclusion but not this. Jeez, let’s keep our heads on heere!

Very logical and the most probable….

I thought the picture was taken in London, which would explain all the Malaysians, but apparently these pics come from Dublin. WTF!

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90409%22

I just cannot believe the stupidity of people walking behind some Islamist twat dressed in fatigues with his kids likewise dressed up as kiddie-fadayeen.

I personally don’t think one can get the joke and use it to effectively criticize Israel in a non-racist way. Its like KKK members using a Jimmy Walker caricature to criticize a black politician.

No, I’m sorry, as I said on the other thread, if that really is a Borat reference, then the guy MUST be taking the piss. Reading this flag to suggest that the crusty left is anti-semitic just doesn’t make any sense.

you are all assuming that the guy holding the banner is European Leftist, chances are that he’s not or at least whoever came up with the banner doesnt use English as his/her first language.

Look at the syntax of the banner. they’ve just about managed to squeeze the word “is” in as an afterthought.

my guess is that its a poney tailed palestinan or lebanese student. If he is he DOESNT get the joke and probably thinks that Borat really is from Khazakestan where they have problems with jews and transport.

you are all assuming that the guy holding the banner is European Leftist, chances are that he’s not or at least whoever came up with the banner doesnt use English as his/her first language.

my guess is that its a poney tailed palestinan or lebanese student. If he is he DOESNT get the joke and probably thinks that Borat really is from Khazakestan where they have problems with jews and transport.

10 to 1 he’s Irish.

Anti-Obama republicans didn’t understand why using Curious George to criticize Obama was offensive.

If you check out the pics on the IndyMedia post, the demo is not exactly a cross-section of Dubliners.

The march and protest was mostly populated by foreign students, notably Malaysians, Iraqi Kurds from what I can make out, and some assorted Irish oddballs.

Coming to a city near you…

Shmuel
7 January 2009, 4:36 pm

I watched the Borat movie in Israel and they didn’t get it. My wife and I were the only people laughing.

They were wondering, I think, “Why is that guy saying he’s from Kazakhstan while speaking accented Hebrew to all these stupid Americans? How odd.”

Shmuel:

I attended Borat with an Israeli who peed her pants watching it. Given that the “joke” wasn’t well understood by a number of nono-Israeli posters above — i.e. that Americans are generally polite enough and generous enough as to applaud or tolerate all but the most outrageous of his utterings and conduct (i.e. inviting a prostitute to a dinner party) because he was a visitor from a very distant country of which they knew little.

I gather that Israelis are not well known for politeness, at least not in the superficial way it usually gets enacted, so maybe that’s why the joke was lost on them.

This guy is an absolute codpiece. His sign says ‘collective punishment is a war crime’ in English, whilst he hasn’t bothered with the same message in Arabic (’end the crimes of the occupation’). I wonder if he knows what it says in Arabic? Probably not cos he’s just another useful idiot, conveying a subtly different message to Arab speakers.

What occupation?

This guy is an absolute codpiece. His sign says ‘collective punishment is a war crime’ in English, whilst he hasn’t bothered with the same message in Arabic (’end the crimes of the occupation’). I wonder if he knows what it says in Arabic? Probably not cos he’s just another useful idiot, conveying a subtly different message to Arab speakers.

What occupation?

I have just heard in Israeli television:

Today there were only 14 Palestinian rockets launched towards Israel, zero fell on Sderot.

It seems that the war is working. In your face!

I think that a left-wing anti-Zionist would simply answer that, just because some anti-Zionists are anti-Semitic, it doesn’t mean all of them are and it doesn’t mean that anti-Zionism at its root is anti-Semitic. I don’t agree with this, but that’s what they would answer.

I find the Borat character only mildly funny, btw. And I think it was insensitive of the comedian to use the name of a real country, Kazakhstan, which in no way resembles the fictional country he portrays. He should have used a fictional name that sounded like the names of several central Asian, Caucasian or Eastern European countries.

Damn, Fabian, you are not really another one of these characters who thinks this conflict is really only about rockets, or even mainly about rockets?

Wow, that was a fucking insightful post!

I have just heard in Israeli television:

It seems that the war is working. In your face!

That’s fantastic news, but it could also be bad:

1) I’ve read the Jihadists have been disengaging from heavy fighting with the IDF and avoiding open melees. Perhaps they’re doing this because they know realistically there’s little they can achieve from fighting on ‘home’ territory?

2)If there are no rocket attacks, it will unfortunately increase pressure on Israel to seek terms rather than allow them to plow on into Sinai which I’d like to see them do.

I have had something of an epiphany in light of the ‘crazies’ marching, burning flags and the like: I recently took umbrage at the assertion of ill-intentioned malevolent anti-Semitism in a Spanish cartoon posted on HP. I considered the cartoon at the time to be pretty harmless. Now, I realise that it’s the constatnt drip.drip of bad publicity and anti-Jewish propaganda that fuels some of the displays we’ve experienced in the news of the last week or so.

I hope Graham Steward isn’t coming close to Denmark.

Geesh, where did HP find that tipesh???

The flag he’s holding doesn’t seem to be a true national flag at all, but a parody of the Palestinian or some other Middle Eastern flag with the bits and pieces switched around. I think Kool Aid got it right: the guy’s a joker taking the piss.

How does it feel to be on the same side as the BNP? - http://thurrockpatriots.blogspot.com/2009/01/europes-jews-face-marxist-wrath-over.html

MattG

“There are, of course, haves and have nots (like any society), but it is not a very class driven society (IMHO).”

Ho-hum. I call it class society (worker - capitalist).

“An Islamic extremist Web site is believed to be drawing up a list of prominent British Jews to target over Israel’s offensive against Hamas in Gaza, The Sun reported on Wednesday.”

Brilliant! Some morons on a forum start naming British Jews, and suddenly that becomes a legitimate plot to target these people by Islamic Extremists! You couldnt make it up, as some fat hack once said”

Bob,

Thanks for taking the potential murder of British Jews for their religion and assumed political views so lightly. Twat. If you happen to fall into any identifiable group-say someone wants to assassinate the useful idiots of the left-I hope you find you way on to their list.

Love and kisses,

Barad

Lets cut to the chase. Correct me if I am wrong.

Don’t Hamas, Ahmedinajad of Iran, Hezbollah and all their kith and kin deny Israels right to exist? Have they not all said in one form or another, that they will wipe Israel off the map, which would I presume mean killing all Israelis people, the majority of whom are Jewish?

Fine. Then if you are marching and supporting Hamas, walking around with a banner saying “We are all Hamas now”, (which by the way I’m not, and nobody asked me), then it is possible to draw the conclusion that these people and their supporters are anti-semitic.

And worse, it seems to have become quite fashionable for groups left of Greenwich to behave in this way.

Simple.

Barad @ 5.56pm. Love the alliteration Dude. “Morons on For-ons”.

yes we know they are morons, trouble is they think they are world saviours in search of justice, delusional, Non?

Geesh, where did HP find that tipesh???

He found us.

Brownie

OK, mate. Sorry to hurt your ears but “where did HP find that tipesh” should be said in best Fran Drescher (The Nanny show) style! ;)

James,

“Barad @ 5.56pm. Love the alliteration Dude. “Morons on For-ons”.

Thanks but that bit of alliteration was Bob Latchford, who I was criticising below that. I should have been clearer I suppose. Bob was not necessarily supporting the would be killers of British Jews, he just did not take the threat very seriously. Whereas I sort of do in the wake of recent synagogue torching et al.

B.

If I may be allowed to provide a little comic relief….this reminds me of a house party some time ago, a bit after the release of “What’s Left” when after consuming considerable refreshment :) I announced that “tonight, Matthew, I will be Nick Baron Cohen” (probably inspired by the old MAD Double Takes) and proceeded to sing the following to the tune of the song in question:

In my country there is problem
And that problem is the Left
They don’t like to go to war
‘Cos of courage, they’re bereft.

Throw the Left down the well
So my country can be free
You have to grab them by the pamphlets
Then we will have a mass party!

(I know, I won’t be giving up the day job in a hurry)

I hope Graham Steward isn’t coming close to Denmark

Really?

Jewish children must stay away from schools with many Arab students

“There’s plenty of aggression in the air,” a school leader says about the Arab pupils who would give Jewish students a hard time if they dared to enter the school.

Yesterday Humlehave School in Vollsmose made it known that it wants to dissuade Jewish children from attending the school on account of the many Arab children who attend it. Now two other schools with many Arab children have announced the same thing in Jyllands-Posten.

“I don’t have anything against it, but I would not advise Jewish parents to send their children here. The well-being of the children must come first. We have a large group of Palestinian students, and, particularly at this time, there’s plenty of aggression in the air,” says Lise Egholm, principal of the Rådmandsgade School in Nørrebro, Copenhagen, to the newspaper.

Her colleague at the Klostervængets School, in Nørrebro, Karen-Margrethe Grønlund has the same message:

“There is no doubt that a Jewish child would be bullied and have a hard time at our school.”

In Århus, the schools don’t plan on recommending that Jewish children use other schools.

“We must defend the openness that we have, and work with the mutual understanding of the children. You can’t do that if it means beginning to say no to some pupils,” says Anne Graah, principal of Skjoldhøjskolen.

According to Chief Rabbi Bent Lexner the question is entirely theoretical. Jewish parents simply keep their children away from Arab-dominated schools.

“In reality, of course Jewish parents don’t send their children to school in, for instance, Nørrebro. They simply choose another school. But for democracy, it’s a problem”, Bent Lexner says to Jyllands-Posten.

He is, however, often sought out by parents who ask for advice about which high schools their children should avoid.

How does it feel to be on the same side as the BNP?

There are no ’sides’ here.

I probably know some of the ThurrockBNPers too seeing as I lived just up the road and half my family are buried in Chadwell St Mary.

Did you pick the Thurrock site because you associate Essex with British nationalism? Are you an anti-Essexist?

Graham Steward

yes, really.

I am sick to the back teeth with racist wankers like you. If you come to my hometown and watch football, seek out White Pride. Those Nazi Goons will make you feel home

Jewish children must stay away from schools with many Arab students

Yesterday Humlehave School in Vollsmose made it known that it wants to dissuade Jewish children from attending the school on account of the many Arab children who attend it. Now two other schools with many Arab children have announced the same thing in Jyllands-Posten.

I suppose Denmark is a wonderful country in many ways, and more socially progressive than we are in the USA, but thank god I can’t imagine a similar situation arising here.

(oblig Simpsons quote)
- “Dude, are you being ironic?”

- “I don’t even know anymore!”

Geesh, where did HP find that tipesh???

The question is why would you sink to using a foreign language to insult, با ابن عبيط أنت

spgb, what’s your point? Is it racist to report that Jewish children in Denmark are being dissuaded from attending certain schools because of the current situation in Gaza?

“Did you pick the Thurrock site because you associate Essex with British nationalism? Are you an anti-Essexist?”

I picked the Thurrock site because it carried this article.

“I gather that Israelis are not well known for politeness, at least not in the superficial way it usually gets enacted, so maybe that’s why the joke was lost on them.”

That’s a better theory than mine. The theater I was in (in Jerusalem) may not have been representative either.

GS

wow. I suppose you think I’ve never heard that word before. Oh well, that’s what comes of not being Jewish but having a grandfather who was an English Jew….

I am sick to the back teeth with racist wankers like you. If you come to my hometown and watch football, seek out White Pride. Those Nazi Goons will make you feel home.

Settle down. I’ve just realised why you’ve directed all your spittle at me (If there are no rocket attacks, it will unfortunately increase pressure on Israel to seek terms rather than allow them to plow on into Sinai which I’d like to see them do). Are you aware of the geography of the Middle East? Can you find the Sinai Peninsula on a map?

Up the Orient!

Gene

not in the slghtest. What has happened in Denmark towars the Israelis is repulsive. Your best new (and filthy racist) buddy though is using it to justify the present Zionist killings, like you disgustingly posted about a lickle kwiddie gwetting medical aid, you plank.

Please stop by the Israeli embassy and get money in payment (13 gold pieces) for the fog horn of Israeli propaganda you are sending out.

SPBG Gray -

So even you - dialectical materialist that you are (huh - you’ve probably only read Marx in the 50 page “Essentials” series) - even you can’t resist an anti-semitic trope…the old Judas and the 30 pieces of silver line (somehow transmuted by you into 13 pieces of gold).

Pathetic.

Now we know what you are on about.

What has happened in Denmark towars the Israelis is repulsive.

And yet your venom is directed at me.

I suppose you think I’ve never heard that word before

Which word? ;)

If you’ve heard ‘the word’ before then you know what it means. Nuff said.

I’ve been called a racist before, it’s not the first time. Whatever you may think of me that is patently untrue.

The demonisation of Israel is poisonous and affects Jews everywhere, as you can see with reference to the situation in Denmark. My friend Alex was abused by ‘youths’ in Salford yesterday. There have been attacks on synagogues all over the world. It all has the same effect as the demonisation of Iran and Iranians - it impacts on Muslims everywhere. There is a key difference for me though, Israel has the moral high ground.

Field — if you think I believe in religious bollocks (Judas’s betrayel of Jesus after the Last Supper), then you are being silly. You are being even more silly if I use that old wives tale as a reason to get people saying Seig Heil, Wir wollen eine enderlosnung fur der jodische problem. Get a grip Field.

Judas, 13 pieces of gold, is not a Nazi symbol. (Just like many in India wish the Swastika wasn’t connected to their faith.)

CORRECTION

if you think I use that old etc

Is it racist to report that Jewish children in Denmark are being dissuaded from attending certain schools because of the current situation in Gaza?

Yes, according to the new liberal orthodoxy.

“Is it racist to report that Jewish children in Denmark are being dissuaded from attending certain schools because of the current situation in Gaza?”

Yes, it’s got to be. How dare you!

But apparently it’s not racist to use a familiar trope of anti-semitism in criticising a Jewish supporter of Israel’s right to exist.

Fabian, funny with all this talk of Borochov that Sacha Baron Cohen grew up in Habonim Dror. Wouldn’t be surprised if he learnt the guitar singing Shir L’shalom at camp

ah crap, crap, crap.

A friend mailed me and said I ballsed up above:

“if you think I believe in religious bollocks (Judas’s betrayel of Jesus after the Last Supper), then you are being silly. You are being even more silly if I use that old wives tale as a reason to get people saying Seig Heil, Wir wollen eine enderlosnung fur der jodische problem. Get a grip Field.”

I really must rephrase that to avoid (obvious) misunderstandings.

I don’t believe in any religion
I oppose the Nazis of then and the neo-Nazis of now

Piss poor writing on my part. Sorry

I suppose Denmark is a wonderful country in many ways, and more socially progressive than we are in the USA, but thank god I can’t imagine a similar situation arising here.

This shows how multiculturalism is a bad idea when applied to a hostile culture.

In the US we need to revive the “melting pot” idea. The idea that students should be molded into American values.

How little you know of Denmark!

I live in a predominantly immigrant ghetto. The gangsta kids like bling, humvees, Snoop Dog and Tupac Shakur. What culture are we being threatened by, G? Word!

Jokes can be dangerous if people don’t get them. I know people who nodded approvingly at Alf Garnett’s rants.

SPGB Gray -

“Piss poor writing on my part. Sorry”

That’s a start.

Now, if we could only get you to admit to “piss poor thinking” you might begin to make progress.

spgb: I liked your marxism vs. zionism analysis re: European Jews. Unfortunately, you ended it before the key event — i.e. WWII holocaust. That changed the “dialectic” completely. The surviving Bundists (social democrats who believed Jews should integrate and be part of the working class) became Zionists too, as it became CLEAR that a Jewish state was needed to protect Jews, because the non-Jewish world had failed them.

After WWII, only a tiny percentage of the old socialists, even the hardline ones, believed the Marxist point of view you outlined any more. To overlook that is to miss the elephant in the room, i’m afraid.

In short, WWII made 95% of Jews Zionists, even if they stayed in other countries, assuming you define zionism as believing that Jews need their own state for protection.

This is clear to me, a son of holocaust survivors who would never even consider leaving Canada for Israel. That being said, I think the old socialist view you espoused died in the ovens. Too bad you can’t see that.

Vildechaye, you’re right but cf Marek Edelman, who was one of leaders of the Bund and the Jewish resistance in the Warsaw ghetto, survived and fought with the Poles in the 1944 Warsaw uprising, stayed in Poland after the war (and after the pogroms of 1967) practicing as a doctor, and then became one of the leaders of Solidarity

As fascinating as all this Zionism/Socialism debate is (and I say this as one with 25 years of kibbutz membership under her belt)…I would seriously like to know if these far lefties who go on these “Free Gaza” marches really know who is behind these events. Don’t they realise that they are just being used by a terrorist organisation? When they walk under a “We are all Hamas/Hizbollah” banner do they mean that they condone the hanging of homosexuals, the repression of women, lack of free speech etc.? If not - and those sort of things weren’t compatible with socialism in my day - then why do they allow themselves to be used as propoganda?
Seeing people covering their faces with Kafiyas and throwing things on British streets is as offensive to me as seeing someone parading around in a Nazi uniform, but I guess maybe you have to have luckily survived 2 Intefadas to feel that way, so it’s lost on those using the “Free Palestine” campaign as their latest fashion accessory.
The anti-Semitic rage on Britain’s streets is at a terrifying level. What has to happen before Britain stands up and says “no more”?
All these socialists who claim not to be anti-Semitic now have a chance to prove it by taking control of the wilder elements within the Palestine Solidarity Campaign. Will they take up this serious challenge or continue being puppets?
Anyone interested in the socialist and zionist history of Israel’s establishment should try reading ” The Israelis - founders and sons” by Amos Elon.