Harry’s Place

“Senegal is a predominantly Muslim country ”

Hence why this is news on Harrys Place

Senegal is a predominantly Muslim country and gay men and women remain socially marginalised.

Lengthy periods of incarceration as punishment for sodomy is not the sole preserve of predominantly Muslim countries, but they do tend to punish ‘homosexual liaisons’ more severly than countries with non-Islamic jurisdictions.

A minister friend of mine from the Congo once told me that those suspected of ‘femininity’ are often tortured and executed ex gratia rather than be subject to due process. I think there’s a machismo problem in Africa, partcularly in Egypt and the Maghreb, and this along with the general brutality of everyday life for some leads to the severe sanctions.

I hope no-one brings up ‘colonial’ sodomy laws, as if they have any relevance in modern Africa…or anywhere else for that matter.

Are you serious Bob? We really can’t talk about this?

It’s ok for you to get so upset and outraged at Israel’s human rights abuses, but if anyone should mention horrific abuse elswhere in the Muslim world then that is islamophobic.

No Bob, it is just appalling behaviour that deserves highlighting.

Of course, since it does not involve Israel and gay rights are totally dispensable for left wing groups, there will be no violent protests outside the Senegalese Embassy with posters proclaiming “We are all Tatchell now”.

Since you raise the issue of the main religion in Senegal, yes Muslim countries are generally persecutors of gay men to some degree. But most African countries, with the honourable exception of RSA, are not good on this. So personally I do not criticise Senegal in this context from a religious perspective (although I note your reliance on the not-so-subtle “Islamophobia” card to downplay the issue) but I criticise on the basis of ordinary human rights.

Further Bob, do you happen to know any gay people or have gay family members? If you do, please consider brushing this sort of thing off in front of them as a fuss about nothing. I would love to know the reaction.

Nigeria’s Anglican Bishop, Peter Akinola is particularly outrageous on this subject.

He should be banned from entering this country.

But that’s not what this post is about.

Hence why this is news on Harrys Place

And Jamaica (which Brett has posted extensively on) is also a muslim country now is it?

You far-left nutjobs are so far up the arse of Islamist Fascists that you’re willing to abandon the “shibboleths” of people being treated equally just to stick a finger in the eyes of the rest of the fucking planet.

Maître Wade, the Senegalese president is a megalomaniac of the highest order and therefore all the more perplexing that he is lauded by the West as a progressive. But I suppose the darkies are held to a differnt standard.
Please dig a little more into this senile fool’s administration’s abuse of Senegalese citizens’ rights and this absurdity would pale in comparison.
See USSD Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2007 here

Nigeria’s Anglican Bishop, Peter Akinola is particularly outrageous on this subject.

I beg to differ. Nigeria is a socially conservative country, with some of the highest rates of religious observance anywhere in the world. His advocacy for measures criminalising homosexuality is in tune with the majority of Nigerians. Banning him from the UK is not the answer; you can’t compare the clash between secular human rights laws in the UK and internationally, and the situation with regard to Nigeria.

If, through persuasion (not coercion and restrictive measures like ‘banning’) and campaigning, a majority of Nigerians decide that the full gamut of progressive and secular human rights’ laws are compatible with Nigeria, then homosexuals will be able to live there as they do in the UK: openly. Until that day, imposing laws and ‘banning’ people who hold distasteful opinions will only buld up resentment.

Nigeria is on the front line of Sub-Saharan Islamic expansionism. I know from having visited there and from the anecdotal evidence of both Muslim and Christian colleagues that homosexuality just isn’t accepted as it is the UK. With Nigerians of religion on either side of the religious divide unwilling to relinquish what they see as relgious authenticity to their compatriots, attitudes to homosexuals are unlikely to improve in the near future

In the UK, far from seeing a sea change in attitudes over the last 10 years of Labour with their and the EU’s progresive attitude towards equality, people have slowly got used to the modern notion of equality of gender preference. Yet, had entrenched attitudes held until, let’s say the 60s, obtained till the advent of the Blairster, cosy acceptance may have given way to a far more illiberal attitude.

“His advocacy for measures criminalising homosexuality is in tune with the majority of Nigerians”

So that’s the role of an Archbishop is it, to reflect and support the sick attitude of the majority?

How very Christian.

Until that day, imposing laws and ‘banning’ people who hold distasteful opinions will only buld up resentment.

Oh that’s all right then. Making sure that murdering delusional nutters don’t feel “resentful” is much more important than the rights of ~10% of the population to have natural loving relationships and be who they truely are without fear of said murdering delusional nutters stringing them up.

Fucking theocrat.

Graham,

I have also been to Lagos and Port Harcourt. I agree with your analysis of the population and their social conservatism. However it does not make them right unless you totally reject the notion of some universal rights that apply to everyone everywhere.

Just because a democratic majority agrees to persecute a minority does not make it right or right to ignore it or give them licence because they happen to be African or poor or religious. Akinola is a nasty piece of work IMO with a nasty idea of Christianity, of a type that I had hoped would be almost extinct by now.

B.

Maître Wade, the Senegalese president is a megalomaniac of the highest order and therefore all the more perplexing that he is lauded by the West as a progressive.

This guy is the ‘ultimate progressive’ by virtue of his employ. He’s also Senegalese….and an Islamist/Communist agent provocateur.

Read how he carefully builds the Islamophobia narrative:

…In the typical expression of Islamophobia, Muslims are seen as opposed to so-called Western values and often portrayed as enemies and a threat to national values and social cohesion. Ensuing is a discourse that in many cases persuades Muslims living abroad to “assimilate” in local cultures, implicitly or explicitly requesting them to abandon their cultural and religious heritage and even their visibility.

Once again the Jihadi-left alliance will excuse the actions of anyone who isn’t White, Jewish or American.

What do you people stand for anymore ?????

What do you people stand for anymore ?????

Hamas. And Hezbollah. Any other bunch of murdering loons that happen to have sufficiently brown skin.

They try to sweep what happened to the Tudeh under the carpets of their minds though.

Graham Steward

Obviously you are not gay or even remotely aware of the diversity among men who have sex with men or you would have realised that homosexuality is and always has been extremely common in West Africa.

In Nigeria, most especially in the Northern areas, there is a particular traditional pattern of male homosexual activity in exchange for patronage, political favours and social position.

The increasing severity of social and political responses to male homosexuality is not a reflection of a traditional conservativism but a clash with modernity where male homosexuality becomes more visible and more visibly associated with prostitution.

The fact that there is a very visible subculture of male prostitution associated with western visitors is what is incensing reactionary nationalists who see it as an insult to Africaness, hence the crackdowns on bars and hotels and cruising areas.

Obviously you are not gay or even remotely aware of the diversity among men who have sex with men or you would have realised that homosexuality is and always has been extremely common in West Africa. In Nigeria, most especially in the Northern areas, there is a particular traditional pattern of male homosexual activity in exchange for patronage, political favours and social position. The increasing severity of social and political responses to male homosexuality is not a reflection of a traditional conservativism but a clash with modernity where male homosexuality becomes more visible and more visibly associated with prostitution. The fact that there is a very visible subculture of male prostitution associated with western visitors is what is incensing reactionary nationalists who see it as an insult to Africaness, hence the crackdowns on bars and hotels and cruising areas.

Metta, perhaps this is where the rumour that Atiku Abubakar is a closet gay comes from:-)!
Incidentally, some Igbo boys I knew from Uni, would joke that most Fulani and Hausa politicians engage in gay sex. I thought they were just engaging in the typical Nigerian tribalist banter. Now I am not so sure!
As for gays being an insult to ‘Africanness’ it is simply ridiculous. Africans are not any better or worse than the rest of humanity and there is nothing insulting about being gay.

Even if most people in Nigeria do support the criminalisation of homosexuality (which I’ve seen no evidence of), that doesn’t make it okay for homosexuals to be persecuted.

Given Nigeria’s human rights record, would many Nigerians risk demonstrating in favour of gay rights? Maybe there is more support for equality, but people are afraid of speaking out.

Rastalion

Your Igbo friends were right. A Nigerian Sociologist who carried out some sexual behaviour research for us described this traditional pattern of pederasty at a seminar.

However as this political patronage has strong mafia like and traditional African religion (pederasty confers enhanced power on the active partner) elements it is something you would not go investigating if you valued your health.

How it works is that younger men will become male concubines of Hausa and Fulani politicians, judges, army officers etc who return favours throughout adult life to ofset the power debt accrued by the younger men.

This is the pattern behind the endless gossip of ’so and so was x’s boy when he was younger thats why he’s ben promoted’ etc.

I think its perfectly reasonable to pinpoint homophobia wherever it exists.

The fact is that conservative religious extremists of all colours are homophobic.

I don’t agree with this blog’s view on Israel at all, I am opposed to Zionism, but that shouldn’t imply support for extreme Islam.