Harry’s Place

Hamas know more than anyone the power of the media and images. That’s why they use their own children as cannon fodder, because every time one of them gets killed sitting on a pile of Quassam rockets, Clare Short or Annie Lennox or some other sentimental ignorant has-been rocks up alongside the psycho Islamist brigade and gives them succour.

So I can understand Israel not giving Hamas the oxygen of publicity, but it does have its capacity to backfire.

If Hamas want Rafah opened, they can accept the November 2005 agreement on the subject.

This is silly. Israel has controlled Gaza right from the start: its shipping, airspace, tax, and borders. It has always been under strict sanctions, since before Hamas, as I am sure James Wolfensohn will tell if you asked him (he tried his best to open things up a little to spur economic development).

Right from the start, Hamas was never a recognised state, nor part of any other, nor was it put on any track to be one (it was divorced from any wider settlement). It was put in limbo, whence it has not returned, unsurprisingly.

If they prefer the path of martyrdom, we should be willing to offer it to them

The angry rhetoric of failure. You can’t destroy Hamas through this military action. In the process of you send civilian men, women and children to their “martyrdom” and destroy the lives of many others.

That’s why they use their own children as cannon fodder, because every time one of them gets killed sitting on a pile of Quassam rockets, Clare Short or Annie Lennox or some other sentimental ignorant has-been rocks up alongside the psycho Islamist brigade and gives them succour.

Well, I don’t know, Hugh Oxford, I guess you are battle hardened son of a gun, and perhaps I’m just a big softie, but I think its a tad more than ’sentimentality’ when folk get concerned about kids dying, whether the children are Palestinian or Israeli.

The Israeli ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza is absurd. The Israeli ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza is absurd.

What’s stopping journalists going in over the Southern border, from Egypt?

With all our rhetoric about bringing down the Hamas, what interest do they have in keeping him alive?

Hamas won’t kill him, its certainly not in their interests to do so.

Alex,
1. Not sure why you’re so sure Hamas will be no less popular. Without proper opinion polling (if that were possible!), we have no idea what Gazans think. If you’re a Gazan, it’s perfectly possible (and logical) to feel anger towards both Israel and Hamas. M
2. What’s all this “incompetence and indecision”, “wavering about the reservists” stuff? Look, you’re there and I’m not but as far as I can see, the army seem to have had a pretty clear plan to which they’re sticking. They started off with air bombardment but unlike Lebanon, clearly with plans to send in troops. They called up the reservists right away, spent several days training them and then sent them in. Casualties are extremely low so far tg so something is going right. And they seem to be proceeding steadily towards some predetermined goal. It feels entirely different from Lebanon 2 in almost every respect.
3. Absolutely disagree with you about the ban on journalists. It’s been very smart. News editors are brutal; if they don’t have any good material to show, they don’t run the story. So Gaza hasn’t had the grotesque over-exposure that other I-P stories get.

I imagine the press would love to be in Gaza to fill our screens of more blooded bodies. Are they interested in a resolution to the situation or will they glorify the gore?

The assurance that they will not be shot on sight?

“3. Absolutely disagree with you about the ban on journalists. It’s been very smart. News editors are brutal; if they don’t have any good material to show, they don’t run the story. So Gaza hasn’t had the grotesque over-exposure that other I-P stories get”"

Errrr…no….to put it mildly. Western sources are using Arab stringers and the like. Israel just looks like it has quite alot to hide.
So the ban has been totally counterproductive.

Gaza has been in the top three stories since it began. Have you noticed the coverage…..at all? The protests? Blanket radio and TV? This ring any bells? News Editors will instead fill the screen with commentators and the like.

Ok, am being

Point 5 happened because during the Lebanon situation in 2006, Western Reporters were shamelessly shilling for Hezbollah (remember the BBC’s Orla Goebbels’s shameless claims that Israel had demolished an entire town centre, complete with convincing looking pictures of devestation, then 30 minutes later a Channel 4 reporter showed the town centre from a slightly different angle only to reveal that…one building only had been demolished and that was a Hezbollah building).

….unable to finish my sentence…….

“The Israeli ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza is absurd”

But then if they get killed John Pilger will write “Israel is high in the league table for the murder of journalists”

http://www.hurryupharry.org/2008/12/24/the-press-complaints-commission-how-%E2%80%98high%E2%80%99-is-high/

Israel cannot win, it seems

As far as I understood it when I was there last week, the main reason for not allowing journalists in (apart from the fact that they get in the way and Israel ends up being responsible for their safety) is that serious lessons were learned after the 2nd Lebanon war. Then there was a ridiculous situation in which reporters wandered around freely amongst the soldiers on the Israeli side of the border preparing to go into Lebanon and broadcast details of which unit was going where and to what aim, including even recordings of army radio communications! All Hizbollah had to do was to watch the news - they didn’t need intellegence. This cost many lives and an obvious effort has been made to ensure it doesn’t repeat itself.
Another ridiculous situation in 2006, to which I can personally bear witness, was that Hizbollah would fire Katyushas into Israel and minutes later journalists would be reporting the exact site of the hit. In many cases a Hizbollah would immediately adjust their co-ordinates and fire again at the same target, but this time more “sucessfully” due to having been informed of their errors.
The journalistic “fog” imposed in this operation may not be good for PR, but it is certainly helping to save lives, and I’m sure the parents of the soldiers on the ground are very grateful for that.
On a more philosophical note, I must say that I have not noticed that actually being on the ground has ever improved the accuracy of reports by Mr. Bowen and his ilk. They don’t seem too keen to let the truth get in the way of a good report even if they are actually there - see “An Analysis of BBC Arabic” by Trevor Asserson & Deena Pinson.

“was that Hizbollah would fire Katyushas into Israel and minutes later journalists would be reporting the exact site of the hit. In many cases a Hizbollah would immediately adjust their co-ordinates and fire again at the same target, but this time more “sucessfully” due to having been informed of their errors.”

This is stupid, they are banned from GAZA not ISRAEL…

Israel bans journos because they don’t want the world to see what they are doing, never have never will, the neocon rag NYT is covertly mocking them, don’t let the world media in? then the Arab media will be the only media there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/business/media/12jazeera.html?th&emc=th

One of the comments I hear a lot is about Israel being the only democracy in the Middle East. There’s a lot to argue about there given the power that small parties have because of the particular nature of the Israeli electoral system. But what about the banning of the two Arab parties that have seats in the Knesset? And that it was proposed by someone who wants to transfer out all the Arabs. Doesn’t exactly look good, does it?

It will be overturned by the Supreme Court, Ross.

The Israeli ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza is absurd. But so is the idea that this somehow benefits Israel.

People do things because they think it is in their interests. The Israeli government evidently think the ban helps them, and clearly it is designed to prevent journalists reporting on Gaza. What is it the Israeli government want to hide? I don’t know, because they have access to information I don’t. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it involves lots of dead Palestinian children.

This is stupid, they are banned from GAZA not ISRAEL…

Nyerr nyerr! ‘This is stuuupid!’

you refer to what was a wholly seperate observation; it wasn’t made to buttress the original point, oaf!

Ross Bradshaw: But what about the banning of the two Arab parties that have seats in the Knesset? And that it was proposed by someone who wants to transfer out all the Arabs. Doesn’t exactly look good, does it?

Look good to whom? The members of the Knesset who voted for this ban clearly thought it would appeal to the electorate. What that says about the Israeli electorate, I’ll leave as an exercise to the reader.

Benjamin: It will be overturned by the Supreme Court, Ross

You’re probably right — that’s what happened the last time Balad was banned, in 2002.

Okay, some classic stuff from Joe the Plumber, sorry, Joe the Reporter, who is working for Pajamas Media (as reported by HuffPo)…

Says Joe:

“I don’t think journalists should be anywhere allowed war (sic). I mean, you guys report where our troops are at. You report what’s happening day to day. You make a big deal out of it. I think it’s asinine. You know, I liked back in World War I and World War II when you’d go to the theater and you’d see your troops on, you know, the screen and everyone would be real excited and happy for them. Now everyone’s got an opinion and wants to downer-and down soldiers. You know, American soldiers or Israeli soldiers.”

Then…

JOE: The story here is people are being killed and the media’s slanting it and trying to make it Hamas is, uh, as far as, that Israel’s being bad. Do you believe Israel is bad?

REPORTER: Do I believe it?

JOE: Yeah, do you?!

REPORTER: I’m Israeli, so…

JOE: So answer the question!

REPORTER: No, I don’t think Israel is bad.

JOE: Do you think Israel has every right to protect itself?

REPORTER: Yeah.

[pause]

JOE: You do?!

REPORTER: Yeah.

JOE: Have you said that on air?

REPORTER: I’m just a reporter.

Orla Goebbels

Let’s just be boring and call her by her actual name Orla Guerin!

It [the banning of two Arab parties] will be overturned by the Supreme Court, Ross.

So was the Israeli army’s decision to ban foreign journalists from Gaza.

I obviously watch different news. Gaza has been steadily slipping down the headlines at the BBC and didn’t even make it into the headlines at all on the Today programme. It’s not on the top 3 on the BBC website, nor on CNN. Even our friends at the Guardian don’t have it as their top story, though El Pais and Le Monde websites do. Of course it’s a story, but I think it would be more of a story if they had more to show. As has been frequently observed, Israel/Palestine tends to receive disproportionate attention because it’s a rather pleasant and safe place for journos to work while still allowing them to burnish their Robert Capa credentials by reporting to camera in a flak jacket to the sounds of explosions (before popping back to their flat on the Mediterranean for a coffee and a bureka).
And of course we would undoubtedly have had “Israelis fire on journalists” stories. That alone was reason to ban them.

Israeli law states that a political party will be barred from running for election if it engages in activities which can be defined as ” support for armed struggle by an enemy country or terrorist organisation against the State of Israel”.
Seeing as members of Balad and Ta’al have been out on the streets lately supporting Hamas, it can hardly come as a shock to them that some people might see this as treason in time of war. I doubt very much that the British people would have been sympathetic to pro-Nazi demonstrations on their streets during WW2.
It is also probably worth remembering that the leader of Balad is one Azmi Bishara, who left Israel in april 2007 after being suspected of passing information to Hizbollah during the 2006 war in exchange for large amounts of money - i.e. treason and espionage- whilst serving as a member of parliment.
I would predict, however, that the supreme court will indeed overturn the election committee’s decision.
By the way - the ban on journalists in Gaza included Israeli as well as foreign journalists and some were let in last week when the situation there was deemed safe enough.
Interestingly, I saw two reports - one by Israeli journalists and one by foreign ones from the same building in which a number of Gazan families were gathered. The Gazans were complaining about having no food, which the foreign journalist reported with great pathos. The Israeli report began in a similar vein, but then the reporter noticed a stack of canned foodstuffs in a corner of the room. When he asked one of the interviewees about it the guy smiled and shrugged and said something along the lines of “it’s a war - you fight whatever way you can”.

Hm.. so this symbol of democracy in the Middle East bans journalists and ignores the verdict of its own Supreme Court, and then goes on to bans Arab political parties.

The Israeli ban on foreign journalists entering Gaza is absurd. But so is the idea that this somehow benefits Israel. At the moment, the only reporting is being done by members of the Arab press, who hardly have an interest in providing a fair and balanced picture. As much as it’s easier to fight a war without a bunch of journos running around, it doesn’t reflect well on the country. Let them in.

All journalists of the type who come to cover Israel’s military actions want is a story. Any story but particularly ones where human suffering is involved. The sufferings of the civilian population of Gaza would simply cause us more grief from uninformed people who will see sadly maimed children and say that Israel MUST STOP.

I would like Israel to stop.

But I want the mortars and rockets that have been raining down on southern Israel to stop more.

Hamas will not agree to give up the ‘armed struggle’.

Yet.

Zin Hm.. so this symbol of democracy in the Middle East bans journalists and ignores the verdict of its own Supreme Court, and then goes on to bans Arab political parties.

Well.

You obviously know more that I do.

As far as I was aware, the Israeli Supreme Court has as yet not given any decision BUT, it is expected that it will overturn the decision of the Knesset committee in this instance.

If this happens, will this improve your opinion of the Israeli Legal System?

A system that has no equal in the Middle East. In fact, if you travel Eastwards, you will have to get to Australia before another comparable legal system is encountered.

You can’t destroy Hamas through this military action

As taught in Military Theory 101 for People who Have Never Been Within a Mile of a Military Facility, right?

I don’t know, because they have access to information I don’t. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it involves lots of dead Palestinian children.

So basically, you have no idea but you post this nonsense because you really really don’t like Jews, right?
Maybe in a time of war, ‘journalists’ who have form for writing lies about Israel (Bowen) and those who would be only to glad to pass information to Hamas, should not be allowed near military opetrations?
Of course, like others here you have never been near a gun let alone a war, and are ignorant about how it works and are just venting your hatred.

OTTAWA–Canada stood alone before a United Nations human rights council yesterday, the only one among 47 nations to oppose a motion condemning the Israeli military offensive in Gaza.
[]
Of Canada’s current approach, he said, “It’s not a middle-of-the-road position. It is a frankly supportive position of Israel.”

He said internationally Canada is increasingly seen as being on the American-Israeli side on these issues. But assessing yesterday’s vote at the UN’s human rights council, Heinbecker pointed out “the resolution is unbalanced” in its repeated condemnations of Israel.

Along with Arab states, countries backing the resolution included Russia, China and Brazil. Among those abstaining were Britain, France, Japan and South Korea.

The council itself has faced accusations it is biased against Israel. The U.S., arguing the council’s credibility has been undermined, has declined to be a member.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/569872

No, Mr Clap Hammer. Israel ignored the decision of the Supreme Court on the journalists.

Now. Is this governed by the rule of law, or not?

Is this country governed by the rule of law, or not?

Does anyone know if this figure of 250 children killed has been verified?

I gather it refers to children aged 16 and under.

Of course we know Hamas willingly use children as suicide bombers and part of their military. So many of these children may well have been fighters.

Is there any age breakdown of the figures? Any names?

Or are we back in Lancet Study territory again?

Seems to me we have to be very careful with these figures. The UN is clearly not a neutral party and seems entirely dependent on Hamas or the PLO for information.

Yes, Orla Loadalies was dreadful. Didn’t they take her off eventually.

Then there was the cutie who admitted to crying with sadness at Arafat’s departure to be treated for whatever was his mystery disease. That was a low point - a journalist from a free democratic country shedding tears over a ruthless, terroristic despot. Will they do the same for Mugabe one wonders.

Why do they put the worst lot of journos on the Middle East. We’ve got Burbling Bowen now with his little encomiums on how we would have by now have established peace had everyone done as he had said at the time - you’ve gotta smile.

If I recall correctly, the British military banned non-British journalists from going with the Falklands Task Force in 1982. Since Vietnam, the US military has placed restrictions, sometimes severe, on journalists, both American and foreign from accompanying US troops into combat. Frankly given the anit-Israeli bias* of most journalists and how their live reports can be used by Hamas, it is not surprising that the IDF has banned them, believe the US and British would do the same in Israel’s place.

*Interesting to see how enemy civilian casualities are emphasied by the Media in Israel’s battles as compared to the lack of emphasis during America’s battles, at least by the American Media. Probably CNN, etec realize that if they were to hold the American military to same standard as Israel’s, Faux (Fox) and the other flag wavers would jump all over them as a bunch of unpatriortic, anti-American, bleeding heart, terriorist coddling do-gooders who are Stabbing our Brave Troops in the Back.
Ironically, Israel has a better record when it comes to avoiding enemy civilian casualities then the US has.

Is this country governed by the rule of law, or not?

Kindly name one country where nobody, not one person or body or organisation, has ever defied any court, ever.
Still waiting.

A tale of two journalists.The BBC did it usual breathtakingly open analysis of this topic. A pity it did not get two of its own to speak.
Frank Gardner and Alan Johnson. Both thse people thought they had the Fisky, Oyster/Octopus Card, get out of a jihad free card! Frank who some people wickedly call the “wheelchair muslim” was shot. He famously told his attacker “I am muslim too”, the arab attacker perhaps, non plussed and bemused shot him anyway and thinking to let Allah decide. Everybody else pulled out of Gaza except Johnson,the rational beng the BBC are ‘r’ Hamas now so Johnson was safe. The indescribable hype andpuke over this man’s kidnapping beggars belief but all of you must of witnessed some of it. I suppose everybody wants to be Magnum Photos at D. Day.

A tale of two journalists.The BBC did it usual breathtakingly open analysis of this topic. A pity it did not get two of its own to speak.
Frank Gardner and Alan Johnson. Both thse people thought they had the Fisky, Oyster/Octopus, get out of a jihad free card! Frank who some people wickedly call the “wheelchair muslim” was shot. He famously told his attacker “I am muslim too”, the arab attacker perhaps, non plussed and bemused shot him anyway and thinking to let Allah decide. Everybody else pulled out of Gaza except Johnson,the rational beng the BBC are ‘r’ Hamas now so Johnson was safe. The indescribable hype and puke over this man’s kidnapping beggars belief but all of you must of witnessed some of it. I suppose everybody wants to be Magnum Photos at D. Day. These two are set up for life now courtesy of the tax payer.

“I’m surprised that few people have picked up on this blog, Aid2Gaza. Apparently run by the Israeli government, it aims to document as much as possible - positive and negative - about the flow of humanitarian aid into the strip during the crisis.”

How noble of them. After all, their blockade after the Gaza pullout caused so much suffering. Token gestures just won’t do. The world has opened its eyes to Israeli brutality in Gaza and any attempts to mitigate the war will not do.

Kiggy, Go Kigg Off!

The world has opened its eyes to Israeli brutality in Gaza

Were those rockets fired from Gaza into Israeli towns a false-flag operation by Mossad?
I’ll wait for you to check the contacts on the aluminium lid you use as a receiver over your head - when you’ve done that, do get back to us with the latest gen.

Will be ever be peace in the Middle East? The current massacre in Gaza will raise more militancy. Israel has to live. Palestine has to exist. Tomorrow these nations will still be together. In return for recognition, Israel must soften its stance for an undivided Jerusalem.