Harry’s Place

David T

You have said something I wholeheartedly agree with. My apologies!

apologies for what?

Robinson sold 50 per cent of the New Statesman to Mike Danson of Datamonitor fame. From reports he is set to take over in the next three years.

Danson also owns Labourhome. Labourhome still refuse to acknowledge this on their website, despite my public prompting of Alex Hilton (on CiF) for Labourhome to be more transparent about that fact in their ‘About’ section.

Well, for agreeing with you. It must be very embarrassing! :-)

And what about employees who do NOT want to be represented by a union. Or ones that want to be represented by a *different* union? The era of the closed shop is over, David, you know.

Morgoth

It’s not a closed shop. All forms of a closed shop are illegal under the Employment Act 1990.

They are not subject to an obligation to join, only the option of doing so if they so choose, Morgoth.

Did that really need saying?

Did that really need saying?

Ask Gene, who is in favour of forcing people to join Unions and abolishing the secret ballot.

To get back to the point at hand, there are two objectionable matters here: one impinging upon another: the statutory recognition of a Union leading to the imposition of collective bargaining. Both reek of the Sovietisation of the workforce.

Morgoth,

usually, as in my workplace, the people who do not want to join enjoy all the benefits of the negotiated wages/terms and conditions package without losing money through striking or paying subs. they then, the minute they run into trouble, try and join the union, and leave immediately after we win their case for them [/bitter rant]

the statutory recognition of a Union leading to the imposition of collective bargaining. Both reek of the Sovietisation of the workforce.

Oh please!

they then, the minute they run into trouble, try and join the union, and leave immediately after we win their case for them

What, people acting in their best interests? Oh my!

Greg,

hardly their best interests, since such behaviour threatens the longterm existence of unions. I pay >£2000 pa for the pelasure of doing extra work to keep the union running, which reminds me, I have branch minutes to write up….

The era of the closed shop is over

Try telling that to the RMT. Boom boom.

Ask Gene, who is in favour of forcing people to join Unions and abolishing the secret ballot.

I don’t know if that’s entirely true (although, coming from you on the subject, I’m inclined to consider it’s not), but what does that have to do with this article?

What, people acting in their best interests? Oh my!

Greg, ignoring Red’s valid point that such behaviour threatens the union’s longevity, it’s not the “acting in their best interests” bit that annoys most people; it’s the “shameless hypocrite” aspect.

Good to see Morgoth standing up for the rights of The New Statesman’s owners to decide whether or not their employees get a union.

Argh, spoted typo, >£200 pa, not £2000 - it’s not that ruddy expensive…

The actions of the NS management are as incomprehensible as they seem incompetant, there is no closed shop issue that I can see, as has been pointed out such things are illegal, and no reason why the NS should not recognise more than one union if such a situation exists.
My feeling is that the NS is an employer with few employees and as such there are some personal issues within the organisation creating a disproportionate impact, but who knows.

No, Greg, there’s acting in one’s best interests, and there’s being a self-serving sponge. D’you get turned on by Margaret Thatcher’s ankles?

A magazine that hates Israel, produced an anti-semitic cover, and grovels to Islamists at every opportunity. What else would we expect?

I see Morgoth is piling non-sequitur on non-sequitur. What a load of old bollocks.

Pretty extraordinary that the NS is taking this line given the nature of its readership - you’d've thought they might realise that this level of hypocrisy would attract significant interest from them…

Surely this is not the same New Statesman that relies on interns working for free as a form of cheap labour? Perhaps we should be told etc.

Chas do we have to bring every round to the middle east.
The discussion is interesting and nothing to with Gaza. Keep to the thread.
David I would prune any comment that doesn’t relate to the thread.

usually, as in my workplace, the people who do not want to join enjoy all the benefits of the negotiated wages/terms and conditions package without losing money through striking or paying subs. they then, the minute they run into trouble, try and join the union, and leave immediately after we win their case for them

That is the price of not living under a fascist soviet system. A bit like enjoying the protection of an army without being forced to join it.

I don’t know if that’s entirely true (although, coming from you on the subject, I’m inclined to consider it’s not)

Delete as an uncalled-for personal attack, accusing the poster of being a liar without knowing the facts?

A magazine that hates Israel, produced an anti-semitic cover, and grovels to Islamists at every opportunity. What else would we expect?

Hear, hear. It gives a platform to deranged ‘journalists’ like Pilger, who accuses Israel of being the source of EVERY problem in the ME.
I am beginning to suspect he doesn’t like Joos.

Pilger has his faults but if you feel he is anti semitic. Contact his agent or publisher with your correct name and libel him with that accusation.

I did not get that impression when I read his book on heroes.

“Delete as an uncalled-for personal attack, accusing the poster of being a liar without knowing the facts?”

The first rule of being a snitch and a suck-up is that you need to snitch and suck up to someone who might be vaguely sympathetic to your position, and therefore someone who wouldn’t regard Morgoth’s statement as deliberate baseless and inaccurate hyperbole.

That is not the case here. You gotta craft your position, Nearly. Make the right sort of appeal on the right sort of issue. You ain’t got no strategy there, you see. If you’re gonna bleat about sovietisation in response to the NS refusing union recognition, then that’s not the thread to come on strong with your own censorship demands… :)

You are wrong on the point, in any case. No one should be forced to join a union, but it is contemptible to join when in trouble and then leave straight after you’ve been helped. That sort of behaviour is extremely low indeed.

Pilger has his faults but if you feel he is anti semitic. Contact his agent or publisher with your correct name and libel him with that accusation.

Saying that Israel is the sole and only cause of problems in the ME is antisemitic. If you are Pilger, sue me.

Ben, what on earth are you talking about? These posts are open to all to read, so there is no snitching. And if you think I either need or want to suck up to Morgoth, you are talking through the back of your neck.
I don’t remember saying anything about censorship. Perhaps you read someone else’s post. I stated my opinion about calling Morgoth a liar.
And no, I am not ‘wrong’ just because you disagree with me.
Furthermore, you are conflating those people being ‘contemptible’ (which you are entitled to believe) with the issue of coercion, which is a totally separate matter.

Saying that Israel is the sole and only cause of problems in the ME is antisemitic.
It may be, and is wrong but why anti semitic.
To say the Germany was the sole cause of WW1 maybe wrong but does not mean you are anti German.
there is no logic to your argument.
It is a logical fallacy