Harry's Place

It is painful to observe the suffering of the civilian population. Like Professor Trainor of Universities UK, who speaks for the sector as a whole, I supported calls for an end to the conflict. As he has said, many of the casualties have occurred in educational establishments. Wherever in the world scholars or their institutions are threatened, or their lives are disrupted by conflict, I believe all parties should respect the integrity of scholarship and intellectual and academic freedom and should work to minimise suffering”.

I missed his statement about the rockets falling onto Israeli schools and playgrounds. I missed his statement about the disruption to Israel schools & colleges because of rockets from Gaza.

I guess it just slipped his mind.

“Scholarships for Palestinian students”

I actually agree with this. Get them all. Give them UK citizenship also.

Marvellous! Who says direct action doesn’t work.

Fabian,

actually, that’s half a good idea – better still, give all Israelis British citizenship, totally depopulate that strip of land in the middle east, and you can all move to Essex – that way, neither side gets it.

It’s not a good argument, RD – it’s a nice cuddly form of ethnic cleansing.

Fabian’s comment, I mean.

Expect more occupations, expect more capitulations

Which one of the agreements is “capitulation”? They all seem either positive or so wishy-washy that they are pointless.

PlumStupid –

You got there before me.

The man does appear to have had a “senior moment.”

Howard Davies, if it is the one I’m thinking about, has always looked like he’s got early onset to me.

It certainly sounds like he’s in his intellectual dotage.

“It’s not a good argument, RD – it’s a nice cuddly form of ethnic cleansing.”

To posses another nationality is a form of ethnic cleansing?

It’s not a good argument, RD – it’s a nice cuddly form of ethnic cleansing.

I knew that the guys at the Israeli embassy were hiding something from me when they gave me my permission to make aliah! They ethnically cleansed me from Argentina! Bastards!

TheIrie: yere dumb

TheIrie’s argument is so dumb in so many ways… let me count the ways in which TheIrie is dumb…

1. Jordan becomes the #1 ethnic cleanser of Palestinians.
2. Instead of being good by protecting refugees from persecution, you are being ethnically cleansers every time you give asylum.
3. 300 Palestinians with double-nationality were allowed to flee the Gaza strip during the war. TheIrie, that attacked Israel so histerically for bombing people with “nowhere to go”, becomes an accomplice in this situation.

Those at LSE close to Howard Davies are delighted that the occupation finished with only this gesture to the occupiers – and it is a gesture – there is nothing there of substance.

Crikey! To think I could have saved £10,000 tuition fees this year if my kids had written ‘Occupied Territories’ instead of Israel on the forms! No discrimination going on here then…..
I note the link to MAP – one of PSC’s charities of choice it would seem.
A quick look at their 2008 annual report (on the website) shows that one of the organisations on the ground through which MAP works is the Islah Charitable Society – originally a Yemen based charity with branches throughout the ME and links to the Islah Party in Yemen. Nice chaps these – links to the MB, the Aids-curing-with-herbs doctor/cleric, don’t believe in birth control, no women allowed to work outside the home etc.
According to Israeli authorities Al Islah charity is a front to channel funds to Hamas and on 25/2/2004 the charity’s account (no. 711161) in the Beit Lehem branch of the Arab Bank was siezed for that reason.
I would be fascinated to learn what safeguards the LSE has put in place to ensure that funds collected on its property and with its encouragement will not be transferred to the coffers of an organisation which is supposedly illegal (despite working quite openly) in the UK and how the LSE intends to ensure that it does not fall foul of the law against the funding of terror.

The occupation of the Old Theatre cost LSE (ie the taxpayer) £4000 per day in extra security costs (plus the time of senior LSE staff in negotiating with the occupiers and in rearranging venues for lectures and meetings).

Howard Davies is a wretch. Once you start ‘negotiations’ with kids pumped up on cheap emotion, backed by political extremists, this is where it ends.

Who’d be a Jewish student at LSE?

kids pumped up on cheap emotio0n is dead right Colin. I sneaked a look the day Tony Benn spoke.

6th-form common room politics at its worst.

risible it was.

is it my impression or is everyone going crazy in your country?

occupying universities is something students do when they are fighting dictatorships, or at least when the political power or the rulers of the university in appreciation is perceived by the students as abusive and illegitimate.

so, one more confirmation that a significant number of people in the long-established democracies simply lost their ability to understand what democracy is about… there is a bad feeling surrounding all of this, as if these people actually wished democracy to fade away so that they could become real ‘dissidents’ real ‘freedom fighters’. they are in fact behaving as the spoiled brats of democracy, like those kids who incessantly want the new toys the saw on tv ads.

“one more confirmation that a significant number of people in the long-established democracies simply lost their ability to understand what democracy is about”

Indeed what could be less democratic than a bunch of people choosing to express their opinion?

Also from LSE:

Insanity is prevailing.

The London School of Economics has just banned the highly articulate and intelligent Douglas Murray, the author and Director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, from their campus.

Murray was to have chaired a debate about Islam titled “Islam or Liberalism. Which is the Way Forward?” The reason given was “security concerns.”

According to Damian Thompson, of the London Telegraph, the School had no such fears when known “members of Al-Mujaharoun, a pro-terror Islamist organisation,” spoke there. Thompson was in attendance. “The presence of the group was announced in advance, but that was OK with the School. Presumably that was because it was also OK with the Islamic campus ideologues in front of whom it cowers.’ ”

This is truly absurd. According to Peter Whittle, Director of the New Culture Forum (who, to his credit, has just invited Murray to chair their first program of 2009):

“The ban on Mr Murray is outrageous. Even more worrying however is the total silence on such occasions from our elected ‘representatives’ in public life. Are they cowards? Are they in denial? Certainly, Douglas Murray is neither. ”

Douglas Murray appeared on BBC1’s ‘The Big Questions’ a few weeks back, when he took part in a debate about Israel’s response to Hamas, in Gaza. Murray was fair, polite and in command of the facts. He also refused to condemn Israel for defending herself following eight years of Hamas terrorism.

The LSE powers-that-be should hang their heads in shame.

so, one more confirmation that a significant number of people in the long-established democracies simply lost their ability to understand what democracy is about

The right to protest is engrained in every democratic country in the world, and has been used to make great gains to society, including the right to vote in the first place. No democracy is going to be perfect, and that is why the right to protest is essential. To say that only non-democratic societies should protest completely misunderstands democracy and history.

While you are getting in a tizz about occupations don’t forget the occupation that’s been going on for 41 years…

David R. I posed a question to you the other day, I didn’t see your answer.

How many people did Hamas kill while it was being “nurtured” by the Israeli government?

Tabatha, by an amazing coincidence your post is word for word this one?!

http://notesfromamadisland.blogspot.com/2009/01/cowardly-academics.html

It’s not a good argument, RD – it’s a nice cuddly form of ethnic cleansing.

Pretty soon the “progressives” (and their blogs) will be arguing for ejection of the Israeli population for the sake of “peace” in the region.

A leftist will excuse anything once he has convinced himself his intentions are pure.

While you are getting in a tizz about occupations don’t forget the occupation that’s been going on for 41 years…

At this point Israel should consider reoccupying Gaza. It can’t possibly increase the international opprobium. Moreover it would force the diplomats and media to try to explain why Israel should be expected to withdraw again when we already know that there will be peace.

correction: … it would force the diplomats and media to try to explain why Israel should be expected to withdraw again when we already know that there will not be real peace.

Ecky thump, some people seem to think irony is a sort of metally….

“Indeed what could be less democratic than a bunch of people choosing to express their opinion?”

Idiots, those kids. Were they clever, they would have chosen to democratically express their opinion by occupying the food section of Marks and Spencer.

Anon:

And your point is…?

If you wish to challenge the accuracy of the info, knock yourself out.

The post at http://notesfromamadisland is mine, and I would happily have cited that link, had I not had to rush off.

I would have thought that of more concern, is the fact that LSE has banned a perfectly decent author from a debate involving Islam.

Oliver Kamm on the Murray/LSE issue here

Thanks MARK T for that great link.

Oliver Kamm says it perfectly:

“The LSE’s conduct is cowardly and unconscionable. A university is a place for the untrammelled discussion of ideas. The LSE has curtailed the ability of one invited guest to contribute to a discussion – as chairman of a debate and not even as a speaker – because of a presumed threat of violence arising from the offence he might thereby cause. I’ve seen the LSE’s internal correspondence on this. It refers to complaints made about Douglas’s views on Islam. It seems that Douglas has been disinvited because of the effect on the sensibilities of students – or on “campus relations”, as one particularly arch piece of misdirection has it – at a time of Middle East conflict.”

As the first commenter puts it -

“LSE authorities seem to have a clear case of pre-emptive Stockholm syndrome.”

A few weeks ago, Douglas Murray appeared on BBC1s ‘The Big Questions’ where he proved an articulate defender of Israel’s right to defend herself. I imagine that didn’t endear him to the LSE mob…

short order cook:

as far as I know in Britain people are free to protest without having to resort to atitudes like this one, which in fact is a challenge to the legitimate power.

in normal free societies it doesn’t make sense to engage in such atitudes. these are extreme measures that protesters use when the normal channels for the expression of their legitimate demands are non-existent.

so attitudes like this actually mean that the legitimacy of your democracy is being denied by the protesters and apparently people like you cheer it.

if those people actually cared for democracy and/or had the knowledge that allowed them to understand what it is to live under non-democratic regimes they wouldn’t be so irresponsible.

I’m not going to waste my time speaking about what the expressions rule by consent and rule by law mean…

Sarah,

I’m not cheering these guys, I’m just making the point that these kind of actions are compatible with a liberal society. There are other aspects to a free society than rule of the majority. Sometimes the belief of the majority, the expression of their will through their elected representatives or simply the will of their elected representatives may not be compatible with or properly reflect these aspects.

There are many occasions where this has happened through history and protest and direct action have been necessary. I suspect you may be seeing more of it over the next couple of years, though possibly regarding more important matters like the collapse of the economy and mass unemployment.

You just don’t seem to grasp the dynamic here. the reason Howard Davies has “capitulated” to the demands is because he doesn’t think the demands are onerous, and may even think they are a good thing in themselves. A very polite sit in has led to a reasonable response. Otherwise your in the position of saying “stand firm and make sure not to offer LSE scholarships to Palestinians ! Resist mob rule and do not donate any old books to Palestinian universities! Stop the fee waivers for Gaza students ! Invest in arms firms now” which I suppose is what you are saying.

Fabian – sorry I didn’t answer your question. I suppose it depends which period of nurturing we are talking about. I have referred to the early years when it was developing its social base and its rhetoric but not translating that into fatal attacks. But other correspondents here have pointe dot alter period of nurturing (Of Sheikh Yassin by Netenyahu) when it was clearly a more dangerous outfit.

The point I was trying to make is that the Israeli people have paid a heavy price for a political gamble that was all about avoiding coming to terms with the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinians to share the land and to have their self-determination. We can’t turn the clock back and have to make the best of the present but I suspect that in the future Israeli historians won’t look that kindly on this gamble and its consequences.

David Rosenberg instead of lecturing Israel (a country you hate and want to see dismanteled) about what “gambles” they ought to have taken from your house in the UK, why don’t you put your life where your mouth is and share the land in Gaza with your allies in Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their “legitimate aspirations” to prove your point?

I don’t see why the occupation of university lecture halls should be tolerated any more than the occupation of a place of work, a private residence or any other piece of private property. The students should have been given about 10 minutes to leave or face being dragged out by the police and being expelled from the university. You should never give in to these people, it will only encourage them.

Which is why you will never get a job running a University, I think.