Harry's Place

Its got something to do with Jews hasn’t it? Do I get a prize?

Here’s another difference though. There haven’t been massive efforts by HP to defend the Sri Lankan governments actions.

Possibly because the Sri Lankans are not allies of the UK and the US and have no supporters in the highest places of both governments.

BTW; it’s not a “Israeli/Hamas” conflict, it’s an Israel/Palestine conflict. As you well know.

“Its got something to do with Jews hasn’t it? ”

Yes.

mattG

the same observations are also true for Western Sahara were you have a large part of the population in (Algerian) exile and a separation wall running through the country … but you can’t sell papers or mobilize large protests picking on Morocco, generally speaking, anti-hassanism isn’t very popular in Europe

Excellent post by the way DavidT.

The BBC do understand their hypocrisy and how silly they look. That’s why, through gritted teeth and rather bored expressions they are at least making a token effort to report events from Sri Lanka.

Unfortunately for the Tamils, Lauren Booth hasn’t been mobilised yet.

MattG

Well, it certainly is about Jews, as far as Islamists are concerned.

For non-Islamists, attitudes to the conflict are shaped by deep seated cultural prejudices about Jews, and “anti-imperialist” rhetoric. In some cases, the two themes coalesce.

This is why in Venezuela, displeasure at Israel’s conduct is expressed by desacrating a synagogue.

My views on Sri Lanka/Tamil Tigers are as follows:

1. Tamils have been quite badly treated in Sri Lanka and should have a degree of autonomy, or even independence, if they vote for it.

2. The Tamil Tigers are psychopathic.

3. Sri Lanka is right to attempt to defeat them.

4. Ultimately, some form of regional autonomy deal will have to be struck.

That is also broadly how I feel about Israel/Palestine. The difference, of course, is that the Tamil Tigers want independence or at least devolution. By contrast, Hamas wants to conquer Israel.

There have been no attacks by Tamil sympathisers on Buddhists and their property on the streets of London.

Why do you think this is?

It’s because we understand it’s got very little to do with us, and smashing up shops or doing something equally demented and punch-inducing would make no sense. People have their priorities about right, in that they don’t go on and on and on and on and on about Sri Lanka, when they’re not from there and have no stake in any dispute about it.

What I don’t understand is why they don’t do the same about that other bit of the world, and instead go on and on and on and on and on about it. It’s mad, it’s like people from Ghana having blazing rows about Lowestoft.

The BBC do understand their hypocrisy and how silly they look. That’s why, through gritted teeth and rather bored expressions they are at least making a token effort to report events from Sri Lanka.

Yes HP do understand their hypocrisy and how silly they look. That’s why, through gritted teeth and rather bored expressions they are at least making a token effort to pretend they actually give a fuck about anyone but Jews.

Its got something to do with Jews hasn’t it? Do I get a prize?

It might do.

Although in your case it has everything to do with a monomaniacal “anti-imperialism” that sees evil in everything that might tenuously be associated with the United States.

BTW; it’s not a “Israeli/Hamas” conflict, it’s an Israel/Palestine conflict. As you well know.

No, as you know, the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people – as we were long told – is Fatah.

Fatah has not been involved in fighting Israel.

I think the large demo at the weekend in London (police say 50,000 as against 20,000 at 10th Jan Gaza demo) has just brought home the hypocrisy of “the Left” in their absurd bandwagoning onto the I/P conflict.

The moral bankruptcy of the “anti-imperialist Left” is now totally obvious for all to see.

Fatah has not been involved in fighting Israel.

I think you’ll find that Fatah, as part of the PLO, have a long history of resistance to Israel.

I think you’ll find that Fatah, as part of the PLO, have a long history of resistance to Israel.

Err.. but the reference was to the CURRENT conflict.

Christ.

… in which their role has been limited to having their members executed by Hamas.

Err… but the current conflict is part of the same one that’s lasted for 60 years.

You missed one difference that is very important. The Tamils have not been attacking the police in London.

I think the left like to sympathise with Islam because they share a hatred of the US. Of course in an Islamic state they would soon realise that they do not have much else in common (as happened to the lefties in Iran).

I agree with that :-
“1. Tamils have been quite badly treated in Sri Lanka and should have a degree of autonomy, or even independence, if they vote for it.

2. The Tamil Tigers are psychopathic.

3. Sri Lanka is right to attempt to defeat them.

4. Ultimately, some form of regional autonomy deal will have to be struck. “

“Well, it certainly is about Jews, as far as Islamists are concerned.”

Well then, it’s about Jews as far as Islamists, David T, Mark T and Matt G are concerned, amoung others presumably.

BTW just found a document re US/Sri Lanka relations :

http://ftp.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31707.pdf

“U.S. Trade and Investment. The United States is by far Sri Lanka’s most important trade partner, accounting for more than one-quarter of the country’s total exports. In 2007, U.S. imports from Sri Lanka were valued at an estimated $2.1 billion (virtuall unchanged from 2006).”

Talk about bankrolling the regime !

Not sure what this does for your analogy, but we should probably remember that the government turned a blind eye to a Tamil Tiger fundraiser which honoured suicide bombers.

Possibly because the Sri Lankans are not allies of the UK and the US and have no supporters in the highest places of both governments.

In a sense, this is true, but stated blandly as above it is obvious nonsense and flies in the face of the facts, not just about Israel and its support, but also Sri Lanka.

Instead I think it goes something like this: many, many intellectuals, who have enormous influence, despise their own society. Looking around the world, they survey many conflicts, but Israel/Palestine stands out for them as Israel embodies many of the same values and ethos as those despised Western societies. They come to believe that anything and everything is justified in the destruction of the reputation of Israeli society, and by this circuitous route, without always meaning to, they end up demonizing Jews. I think this chain of reasoning can be supported by innumerable examples drawn from the publishings of those intellectuals and the people influenced by them (such as Truhong Nhu Tang).

Now what is interesting is: why is it very typical for Western intellectuals to hate, in some way or another, the society that makes their careers possible?

“the same observations are also true for Western Sahara were you have a large part of the population in (Algerian) exile and a separation wall running through the country … but you can’t sell papers or mobilize large protests picking on Morocco, generally speaking, anti-hassanism isn’t very popular in Europe”

Well governments and people can oppose both, just not get the press coverage of doing so.

Morocco closed their embassy here almost the day we closed our embassy in Israel. (doubtful it was a coincidence) The answer is simple, we support the Sawharis and Palestinians, while occupying powers (Israel and Morocco) scream paranoid persecution.

It’s because we understand it’s got very little to do with us, and smashing up shops or doing something equally demented and punch-inducing would make no sense.

On the contrary, even a cursory look into Sri Lankan history would show the conflict has an awful lot to do with the era of British rule over the subcontinent, which I’m not very interested in condemning or defending here right now. My point is that so-called imperialism, or its legacy, is endlessly invoked by ideologues to blame the West for conflicts in the third world, but those people show no interest whatsoever in Sri Lanka. So it all rather begs the question.

Today someone, probably the Sri Lankan army, shelled a hospital in Tamil-controlled area, hitting the hospital chapel, a children’s ward and a women’s ward and killing several civilians.

A week ago, Sri Lanka ordered tamil civilians in to ’safe areas’ and later bombed them.

According to the UN, the hospitals are all full and civilian casualties are not being allowed to leave the seige area.

Incidentally, Britain does export arms to Sri Lanka. Here’s Joan Ruddock, during the course of a pretty rare debate on the subject:

“My next point is perhaps not for my hon. Friend, but for those in government. I want to refer to another issue raised by my constituents: export licences. Inquiries that I have made reveal that £7 million-worth of arms were licensed for delivery to Sri Lanka in the last quarter for which figures are available. ”

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2007-05-02b.1551.0

“Well governments and people can oppose both, just not get the press coverage of doing so.”

Thank you and goodnight.

The nearly one billion Hindus around the world have been restrained, quiet around the world, even in Indonesia which has a concentrated minority on Bali island and eastern Java. No attacks on Buddhist or Sri Lankan property or persons reported. No calls for a religious militia to make its way to Sir Lanka, let alone the Indonesian governnent offering to raise another (ironically-named) Garuda batallion to act as a peace keeping force.

So its not “about the Jews”. It is a reasonable comparison with Moslem politics and anti-Zionist and anti-Jewism: In Indonesia where the PKS party is whipping up an storm before the parliamentary and presidential elections this year; in the oil countries getting a surplus shakedown with the drop in the oil price; and in the miserable religious schools which generate the global standard of at least 20% community support for violent Jihad and Sharia law over democracy and toleration.

Its got something to do with Jews hasn’t it?

Again, there is little new about Islamist attitudes to Jews. But they have gained much greater significance and influence since mainstream thinkers turned on Israel.

The BBC etc are not interested, because as superannuated Vietnam protesters & CNDers they feel it fashionable to hate Yanks, capitalists, Jews & the indigenous working class.
They’ve hardly heard of Tamils & have had no instructions from the SWP regarding the issue.

I think the difference is that we see Israeli society as being like our own, and hating and denigrating our own society is a given in many of these people. Therefore, put a country like our own in the middle east with real enemies they have to face up to, and they go absolutely bonkers. Hating Israel is in part, an extension of slef-loathing and hatred of the mundaneness of social democracy in the West. Quite often, we will say “but what about if rockets were falling on London, how would you feel then?” I suspect the answer would be, “The rockets wouldn’t be falling on us, if we had a proper foreign policy which hadn’t upset the people firing the rockets.” Just like bombs on the underground are our fault, not the people who set them off.

Sri Lanka is just a country full of “brown people” who they do not consider similar to the UK, and therefore it’s “just one of those things” that happens in foreign countries.

I believe that Keith Vaz MP spoke at the Tamil Tigers’ “Heroes Day” event.

There were most certainly not front bench Labour, Tory and LibDem spokesmen participating.

By contrast, look at the role call of such prominent politicians at the Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood at the Global Peace and Unity event.

I guess I encapsulate the problem with how interesting this is, not!

“What’s it about?”

“Who should I be supporting?”

At least with I/P conflict you only had to know its Jews vs Muslims and then you pick a side.

“Thank you and goodnight.”

So I guess that the point that it was anti-jewish racism on the part of the left no longer makes sense? and that I/P is simply a sexier subject for the media?

What reward do I get for winning?

The BBC is often accused of an anti-Israeli bias in its coverage of the Middle East, and recently censured reporter Barbara Plett for saying she “started to cry” when Yasser Arafat left Palestine shortly before his death.

a href=”http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pandora/bbc-chief-holds-peace-talks-in-jerusalem-with-ariel-sharon-517400.html”>The Independent (29/11/05)

I see the last thing on Pickled Politics about Sri Lanka is 13th Jan, previous to that nothing since 9/10/2008. In the same time there have been approx 1000 articles about the evils of Israel.

Isn’t it strange that Sunny and co are more interested in I/P than the very big and nasty dispute in South Asia ?

That guy is getting more and more indefensible by the day.

Or undefendable indeed.

Why do you think this is?

Well, the MSM has an agenda. It is not necessarily anti-Israel in spirit, though that is how it works out in practice. You can call it the Damien Day effect, if you like. They just know that pictures and film of wailing Palestinians and dead children get ratings. The trouble is that it is pernicious – lies become myths, myths become truth, truth becomes the sort of smug self-righteous anger that political activists love to feel. I am afraid that many “reputable” journalists are playing this deadly game, in the facile belief that it does not have real political consequences. Well it does not have much back home, and if a few Jews get popped over there, no one will take much notice. Take this, for example, from Palestinian journalist, Khaled Abu Toameh:

They told me they wanted anti-Israel stories because it made their lives so much easier. They told me they didn’t want to write anything bad about Palestinians, that Arafat was a man of peace and should be given a chance. I heard this from major American journalists, by the way. Leading American journalists.

The subtext of the MSM amounts to “who cares about a load of big-noses, anyway?” No one, apart from a few bloggers – sad denizens of bedsits taking a break from masturbation and war films – and the odd rare politician or journalist with scruples. One day there will (I hope) be some serious blowback.

Well then, it’s about Jews as far as Islamists, David T, Mark T and Matt G are concerned, amoung others presumably.

I quite clearly said it “might be” about Jews, you dishonest twat.

There haven’t been massive efforts by HP to defend the Sri Lankan governments actions.

Maybe because it hasn’t been necessary, as there haven’t been hundreds of posts by ignorant loons comparing the Sri Lankan government to the Nazis.

“I hope”

I don’t.

we support the Sawharis and Palestinians, while occupying powers (Israel and Morocco) scream paranoid persecution

‘We’? Is that the royal ‘we’, or the schizophrenic ‘we’?

Isn’t it strange that Sunny and co are more interested in I/P than the very big and nasty dispute in South Asia?

Well, if Sunny wishes to retain the support and admiration of Muslim South Asian readers, he’s pretty much constrained to appeal to their islamo anti-semitism by posting countless I/P articles.

For non-Islamists, attitudes to the conflict are shaped by deep seated cultural prejudices about Jews, and “anti-imperialist” rhetoric

Those ‘cultural prejudices’ are couched in anti-imperialist rhetoric, anti-zionist rhetoric and in the righteous rhetoric of cultural, economic and academic boycotts.

Most people know that, but many are loathe to admit it.

People used to write articles like this during the Apartheid era. “Why does the left always go on about South Africa and not [insert name of Black African state] blah blah blah”. I remember in the early Eighties trying to get prominent Oxford academics to sign a petition to free the then little remembered Nelson Mandela, a surprising number refused because he was a terrorist.

Is HP going to lead by example and give equal coverage to Sri Lanka alonside the Israel\Palestine conflict? Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza

one difference is that (whether you believe them or not) Israel says it doesnt deliberately target hospitals, while the Sri Lankan Government is currently boasting that it does target hosptials.

Another factor is that the Sri Lankan government has basically never really allowed access to foreign journalists. Both the LTTE and the Sri Lankan government have a history of bumping off journalists – so you wouldn’t opt to go there to report.

By contrast, there has been until recently pretty free access to Gaza for journalists, and is still unfettered access to the West Bank. Both places are close to Tel Aviv, which has broadband internet and nice restaurants.

I haven’t come across any Tamils – Sri Lankan or Indian – who have supported the Tamil Tigers, despite the discrimination that persists against Sri Lankan Tamils. Tamil groups in the UK are also highly divided over the LTTE, eg http://tamilaffairs.com/news/folly-of-ltte-front-british-tamil-forum

In contrast, Arabs feel nervous about criticising any aspect of Palestinian politics and there is a sense of moral obligation to declare support for any and all opposition to Israel. I don’t know what proportion of the Arab population in the UK has a privately-held contempt for Hamas, but I think people may be surprised. As for the Muslim population at large, the Palestinian issue has nothing to do with South Asians, who are possibly more militantly anti-Israel than Arabs, even though the countries they originate from are not affected by anything Israel does.

I believe that Keith Vaz MP spoke at the Tamil Tigers’ “Heroes Day” event.

I shouldn’t be surprised. That disgusting man lives for self-promotion.

Sri Lanka is just a country full of “brown people” who they do not consider similar to the UK, and therefore it’s “just one of those things” that happens in foreign countries.

Quoted for Truth.

The blindingly obvious racism of Leftist groups is appalling. Only whites have moral agency; every other race is made up of child-like subhumans who are only ‘reactive’ to external stimuli. Brown folks have zero moral agency and cannot be responsible for their own doings.

When the Tamils and Sri Lanka kill each other’s civilians, it’s like two young boys having a play fight. If the US (or any “white” nation) stepped in to stop the killing militarily, then they would be the bad parent who “spanked” the naughty children. We can’t have spanking, now, can we?

I suspect that Leftists support Islamists for this reason, perhaps more than because of base anti-Semitism. Arabs (exotic “brown people”) are little children who dress in funny clothes and ‘rebel’ against their ‘mean Daddy’ (whether Israel or the USA). They say funny things, just like those punks back in the 80’s. “Ha ha! Anyone remember the Sex Pistols? They were pretty edgy. Azzam’s pretty edgy too! Anarchy in the UK? Islam in the UK? Same thing. Fight the man, wot wot.”

When the SWP proclaims “We are all HAMAS!”, they’re actually saying “Fuck you, Daddums, and your rules!”. In a pique of Freudian projection, the ‘rebellious teenager’ image is placed upon the ‘moral-agency-less’ Islamist groups. They don’t really ‘mean’ all the hatred and talk of killing. They’re letting out their aggression at being sent to their room without supper.

John Edwards – “Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza”

Well that’s as may be but as you must realise (if you know anything at all about international law) very much in dispute.

I reckon the Obama ordered drone attacks in Waziristan that killed numerous civilians recently are more likely to be proven as war crimes. What do you think John ?

Is HP going to lead by example and give equal coverage to Sri Lanka alonside the Israel\Palestine conflict? Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza

This just in – HP is not a news agency.

It’s a blog, that focuses on the rather berkish attitudes of people who claim to be left wing.

People like John Edwards.

I pretty much agree thoroughly with everything David T and Neil have said on this thread (in relation to Sri Lanka anyway).

They may wish to go outside and vomit at this revelation if they so wish.

I see Bob Pitt references the meeting with Ariel Sharon, but doesn’t mention the meeting with Mahmoud Abbas that occured in the same visit.

I also see Bob Pitt is interested in Mark Thompson’s wifes ethnicity without knowing anything about her views: she could be a members of the PCS for all he knows.

But then it is not her views (whatever they may be) that he finds objectionable: it is her ethnicity.

Are these really the posters in question?

Its got something to do with Jews hasn’t it? Do I get a prize?

THEIRIE

If so, Creep.

Possibly because the Sri Lankans are not allies of the UK and the US and have no supporters in the highest places of both governments.

BOB PITT

Wrong on both counts. Over the past decade, Sri Lanka and Israel have been the recipients of similar levels of arms exports from British companies. Plus, L.T.T.E. gangsters have also targeted British streets.

Here’s another difference though. There haven’t been massive efforts by HP to defend the Sri Lankan governments actions.

Yeah, because as well all know a single blog represents international diplomacy.

(As an aside, swastikas were on display at the protest against Hu Jintao.)

“Here’s another difference though. There haven’t been massive efforts by HP to defend the Sri Lankan governments actions.”

God these so-called “Leftists” really are getting desparate for arguments on this one now aren’t they ?

Next big SWP banners – “Down with Harry’s Place !”, “We are all from Lenins Tomb now !”

Kinda on topic. Isn’t it amazing that the UN employs 24,000 people to look after Palestinian ‘refugees’ in the West Bank and Gaza, but yet employs only 6,500 people to care forfor all the other refugess on the entire planet

I’m starting to understand why so many gazan women are so chubby.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/32207/sec_id/32207

“Possibly because the Sri Lankans are not allies of the UK and the US and have no supporters in the highest places of both governments.”

As so many of his ilk, “Bob Pitt” begins his analysis by reducing politics to a matter of personalities; the idea that what determines a country’s support for another nation is no more that the positioning of “its supporters”.

It is, of course, quite absurd, but one with a long tradition. Invariably it shows an utter lack of intellectual acumen and an inability grasp of any other that a populist politics.

It is the “political” equivalent to “the Da Vinci Code”.

Whatever next, a quote from the “Israel Lobby” to authenticate his fantasy?

From the Protocols, surely?

Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza

I am sure you know exactly which ‘crimes’ you are ranting and raving about, and will give us chapter and verse – and will also tell us exactly why Hamas has NOT committed any war crimes, right?

I have some intuitions that came to me from nowhere, so they may be misfires.

This is a fight (Tamil/Sri lanka) between ‘natives’, so let them get on with it (might be the attiude)

Israel is a very particular case because it is a last bastion of Western style democracy, which is associated with The USA, capitalism and Imperialism.

Strangely, I think the Western detractors identify with Israel and are expressing a form of self-hatred. The whole history of the middle class has been a history of self-negation, sometimes out of a noble generosity of spirit, sometimes just blind and destructive. This explains why there are Jews among the antisemites.

While there are many things that contribute to the destruction of our planet, people need an easy target, so most of their crusading virulence is aimed at smokers (while ignoring and living with other more serious factors) Israel in its fairly isolated position is the perfect scapegoat for Western democracies that are not quite so easy to attack and put in the pillory.

The problem for me is self-destructive self-hatred which would explain the anti-ego identification with Islamic fundamentalism. All attempts to ask these nutters why they identify with this particular alter ego are in vain. They can’t face the question; to answer and say, yes they throw acid in the eyes of schoolgirls, hang gays from cranes, is rigidly censored rigidly and would be too painful to admit.

I have read psychoanalitic theories that Hiltler, underneath all his bluster, really desired to lose. In his anitsemitism, which had no basis in reality, he was talking about himself and his own damaged brain.

I have to stop to teach, I would need to be a pschoanalyst, a sociolgist and a philosoper all in one to express myself better – and time.

I suppose if the LTTE came up with some readies, someone like Galloway would start to give a fuck.

“Wrong on both counts. Over the past decade, Sri Lanka and Israel have been the recipients of similar levels of arms exports from British companies.”

Holy cow – Alec just made a good point, backed up by evidence! Is this a first? I completely agree with you on this. I oppose selling arms to Israel and to Sri Lanka. I wonder if anyone else can say that?

“By contrast, there has been until recently pretty free access to Gaza for journalists”

Wonderful you are now reduced to crowing about PAST liberties.

BTW the great al-Zaidi is being inmortalized by human rights activist everywhere.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/02/02/china.uk.shoe.protest/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Truth to power.

British colonial legacy: both Israel and Sri Lanka won their independence from Britain in 1948

Just when was Palestine a British colony…when?

Tamil solidarity politics in Britain is virtually non existent, outside the Tamil community.

There seems to be a lot of solidarity in terms of the yoof…particularly when it comes to joining a gang and stabbing people.

Not sure what this does for your analogy, but we should probably remember that the government turned a blind eye to a Tamil Tiger fundraiser which honoured suicide bombers.

Hat off to Gsirrah. Noice also that members of the Lab-Con-Lib ‘progressive’ pact were in attendance.

My point is that so-called imperialism, or its legacy, is endlessly invoked by ideologues to blame the West for conflicts in the third world, but those people show no interest whatsoever in Sri Lanka. So it all rather begs the question.

Why do Britons never get to use Viking, Norman, Roman etc. colonisation as a legitimate grievance? Why is the legacy of Barbary slaving never taught in schools?

The nearly one billion Hindus around the world have been restrained…

When they’re not killing, raping, mutilating Indian Christians and burning down their churches…

I haven’t come across any Tamils – Sri Lankan or Indian – who have supported the Tamil Tigers, despite the discrimination that persists against Sri Lankan Tamils.

Try the Heroefest…and Ceylon Tamils are not discriminated against in the UK.

In contrast, Arabs feel nervous about criticising any aspect of Palestinian politics and there is a sense of moral obligation to declare support for any and all opposition to Israel.

No ‘they’ don’t. I’ve heard plenty of criticism since Cast Lead and before it. Your average Egyptian has resented Pallys for years, particularly if he’s worked in the Gulf and fought in ‘73.

“People used to write articles like this during the Apartheid era. “Why does the left always go on about South Africa and not [insert name of Black African state] blah blah blah”. I remember in the early Eighties trying to get prominent Oxford academics to sign a petition to free the then little remembered Nelson Mandela, a surprising number refused because he was a terrorist.

Is HP going to lead by example and give equal coverage to Sri Lanka alonside the Israel\Palestine conflict? Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza.”

More nonsense.
1. Israel is not South Africa in the 1980’s. Therefore, any analogy is false.
2. The ANC is not Hamas. Unless, of course, I missed the ANC’s programme that included the accusation that Jews were responsible for all the wars since the French Revolution.
3. That struggle for emancipation did not bring with it an attack on other nationals who happened to share a religious affiliation with one of the parties, as if they were one of the “guilty parties” Of course, I may have missed the slogans screaming “Death to the Dutch Protestants”, but I don’t think so.
4. Unfortunately, and this returns us to point 1, “John Edwards” can only think in terms of abstract categories because he is unable to think through detail. I assume because details cannot be fit within the limited space of a placard.
5. However, why waste time on those like Edwards whose male fide in immediately apparent in his view that raising the question of antisemitism amogst the anti-war movement is merely diversionary. To my mind, this indicates that he is yet just another piece of low-life shit who confuses braying and baaing (or, should that be “blaaahing) with thought and speech.
I assume though that on the basis that empty vessles make the most sound, he will be back. Wanker

Anything to divert attention from Israel’s war crimes in the attack on Gaza

Whether or not Israel has committed war crimes, it can’t be emphasised enough that it’s mad and wrong and freakish for English people to harp on about it in any way. It marks you out as a nutter, a looney tune, a fucking freak. What normal people did today was have fun in the snow; not wank on and on about Israel.

I oppose selling arms to Israel

Well, what a surprise!

So, let those Joos be murdered by the Arabs, yes?

Thanks for making it so easy.

Incidentally, Britain does export arms to Sri Lanka.

Yup – A few days ago I saw a clip on the telly on the news, of a camouflaged Sri Lankan soldier pretending to be a hedge, from which was protruding the distinctive profile of the stock of a contemporary British precision rifle – the well know Accuracy International AW. In British service designated L96 (7.62mmX51 aka .308 Win) and L115 (8.58mmX70 aka .338 Lapua). These are of the order of US$10,000 each with scope.

I think the IDF use the US supplied Remington 700 based M24 Stoner AR10 based M110.

- Here is a search for “Tamil” on Pickled Politics. Here is a search for Gaza.

-Here is a search for “Tamil” on HP. Here is a search for Gaza.

So PP has about 9 mentions of Gaza (and, incidentally, about 17 of Israel) for each mention of Tamil, while HP has 14 mentions of Gaza and 37 of Israel.

Great post David T!

No other nation in the world is subjected to the double standards that Israel is subjected to. Absolutely no other nation. And this was once again demonstrated during Operation Cast Lead. We have a word to describe the double standard that Israel is subjected to…

(As an aside, swastikas were on display at the protest against Hu Jintao.)

Of course I meant Wen Jiabao. They all look alike.

Yes Andrew but most of the articles on HP are criticising “Leftists” like you for your total insane obsession with Israel and its “crimes”.

Personally I think there should be at least 10 articles a day on HP about the hypocrisy and anti-Israel prejudicies of the idiot Left until people like you get the message.

I love HP for a reason, one the one hand they argue how South Africa and Israel are in no way comparable and then go around comparing Sri Lanka with Israel.

I love HP for a reason, one the one hand they argue how South Africa and Israel are in no way comparable and then go around comparing Sri Lanka with Israel.

First, because A and B are dissimilar has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not B and C are dissimilar. Second, it’s the popular response to events in Israel and Sri Lanka which is being discussed first and foremost, numbnuts.

“Why do you think this is?”

That’s quite simple. To use a military analogy, they send the bulk of their forces, strategic reserves to the most important front. Let’s not be simplistic. It’s not only the far-left clowns. The public, journalists, intellectuals, politicians around the world perceive, think that the most “important front” IS in the Middle East, especially the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. True or false is irrelevant on this issue.

I love HP for a reason

Your personality disorder is presumably a factor as well. That personality disorder there that’s so glaringly clear. That thing.

Yes Andrew but most of the articles on HP are criticising “Leftists” like you for your total insane obsession with Israel and its “crimes”.

My insane obsession with Israel? I’d challenge you to produce evidence from any posts I have made here or elsewhere that demonstrate I have any such thing.

And please spare me the “it’s not us it’s the nasy lefties” stuff – HP has plenty of posts on the subject even when it’s not headline news and many of the posters and commentors here clearly have strong views on the subject. Which is fine, and certainly more honourable than merely taking a position in reaction to “the left”, but please be honest enough to admit it.

Thank you, David T for this post. You’ll get flak from the usual suspects for highlighting their hypocrisy so clearly but you are absolutely right.

There is something twisted and sickening about the way the lefties and the ummah obssess about the I/P issue and I have given up trying to figure out what really drives this monomania but deeply doubt that unalloyed compassion for human suffering and a burning passion for human rights is all there is to it. Call me a cynical bitch, do!

There is a great deal of statesanctioned media hysteria about Gaza being whipped up in places like Malaysia and Indonesia as Fab in Jakarta alludes to. The same jokers who go on about Gaza being a humanitarian disaster of unimaginable proportions refuse to let the rohingya boat people (fellowmuslims) land at Aceh or investigate systematic police brutality against the minority indians (fellow citizens). Those who rail about Israel being an ‘apartheid’ state refuse to examine how that tag may fit Malaysia better. Selective?

As for PP’s coverage of the SL situation, it’s gone from bad to non-existent. Like Dan notes, even the SL Tamil diaspora is conflicted about supporting the LTTE while other tamils (from india and elsewhere) are truly very cool towards the LTTE even as they recognise and emphathise with the the ordinary people’s plight. Not being a raving nutter doesnt get one attention anywhere , not even on ‘brown’ blogs.

Shd have used the preview function but it is 4 in the morning here.

OK then Andrew – do you think Israel has reacted within its defensive rights wrt Gaza and conducted its actions generally as far as was possible within international law ?

Who do you think committed the large balance of “war crimes” in the recent Gaza conflict ?

Do you go on the Gaza STW demos ? If so did you also go on the Sri Lanka demo last weekend ?

Oh and another question perhaps OT but of interest – do you think its possible that the current US drone strikes in Pakistan are war crimes ?

Flanker
2 February 2009, 5:05 pm

Morocco closed their embassy here almost the day we closed our embassy in Israel.
Someone please tell me which political paradise Flunker is posting from? Venezuala? Bolivia? North Korea?

Some very interesting ideas going on here – Sea Kitten, Ethan, Felix.
This idea that people ‘rebel’ against Israel because they see it as being the same as their own society is fascinating. I can see why people would see similarities in fields such as democracy, free press, equal rights, freedom of speech etc. I can’t really see why any sane person would need to rebel against such things – do people take them so much for granted that they can afford to gamble with them?
I’m also surprised that people don’t see the significant differences between Israeli and British societies – maybe they just don’t look – but to me the differences are greater than the similarities.

Good post, David.

One more: the Tamils don’t have any oil.

Excellent post David.

Ethan sums up the situation rather well. Some middle class students stop sticking two fingers up at their fathers around graduation time…and some don’t.

Mirax! I didn’t know you were still about. Good to hear from you!

The conflicts concerning Israel and Sri Lanka are good for comparison in part because both countries are democracies dealing with a major terrorist conflict. One important difference between Israel/Hamas and Sri Lanka/LTTE is that LTTE, for all their horrible terrorism including suicide bombing, does not want to destroy Sri Lanka; their goal is an independent Tamil nation in the northern & eastern parts of Sri Lanka where the Tamil people are in the majority. In this aspect the Tamil Tigers are like the IRA in 1919-1922 in that both are fighting to create an independent nation.

Israelinurse -
Some people just never grow up (I know, someone has already said this on this thread). They remain 14 forever. Not edifying.

OK then Andrew – do you think Israel has reacted within its defensive rights wrt Gaza and conducted its actions generally as far as was possible within international law?

Why, is this some kind of test to prove whether my opinions fit your idea of what is acceptable? Oh well… I don’t think that “reacting within its defensive rights” was all it did – I think it went further than that. Whether it acted within international law is questionable, at times it may well not have done – there are certainly credible voices suggesting this may be the case.

Who do you think committed the large balance of “war crimes” in the recent Gaza conflict ?

I don’t know. I am more concerned about the amount of death and suffering inflicted, and much more of it was inflicted on the inhabitants of Gaza.

Do you go on the Gaza STW demos ? If so did you also go on the Sri Lanka demo last weekend ?

I couldn’t go on the Gaza demos due to other commitments, but I may well have gone on one if I’d been able. I didn’t go on the Sri Lanka demo – I don’t see why going on one demo logically means I should go on all of them or why I’m required to have an opinion on everything going on anywhere in the world. Did everyone here who went on the pro-Israel demos go on the Sri Lanka one?

Oh and another question perhaps OT but of interest – do you think its possible that the current US drone strikes in Pakistan are war crimes ?

If they are carried out without the authority of the Pakistani government then they may well be illegal. But then I suspect I can’t win on that one – if I don’t condemn them then I am unfairly focusing on Israel, but if I do then it will no doubt be because of my anti-imperialist US-bashing tendencies.

Andrew A – OK then you’re not a rabid anti-semite and probably not of the “Idiot Left”.

Well done ! It must be because you read HP so much.

I didn’t go on either march because I think both conflicts are too complex for easy answers as is the case with most violence between ethnic and national groups. However I think Hamas is definitely the main problem in the I/P conflict.

The mystery is why some people who claim to be on the Left obsess so much and so monomaniacally about Israel and its supposed crimes out of all the issues in the World.

Do you have a view on that ?

On the Pakistan drones my point is that nations can within international law use air attacks in circumstances when civilians may be killed if the military gain is significant enough. Some on the Left and in the media were up in arms about “war crimes” when Israel did that but now Obama is doing it they appear silent.

It’s complex this asymmetric warfare isn’t it ?

If there was oil in Sri Lanka then the US and UK would have sent the forces to bring down the dictator president and brothers who runs the country and the liberate the people.

While LTTE method can be extreme, they do not target the civillian population only the SL army. And there are no incidents of them targeting westerners.. The media is state controlled and anyone who says anything against thr SL government are quickly delt with. It is infact the SL governmen that indiscriminatly bombs its own citizens. If you speak to anyone in the country they are scared to ell the truth. Because of all of this most Tamils openly support the LTTE as shown in the recent anti war marches.

David, there are quite a few parallels between the two I-P partitions (India-Pakistan in 1947, Israel-Palestine in 1948).

Philo-Semite: You are right there a lot of similarites between the two I-P partitions, particularly with the legacy of mass displacement and hatred left on both sides in the two partitions that has fueled their conflicts that continue to this day.

There is also a parallel in both cases that each partition was the result of a British scuttle (or as we Yanks say, bug-out) from their Empire that a nearly bankrupt post-war Britain could not longer afford to govern. Divide and quit it has been said was the last act of British rule in both areas.

While the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to gather the most publicity and international attention, it is the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir that is by far the more dangerous since both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons. Unlike in the Arab-Israeli conflict where so far, only Israel has nukes.

If there was oil in Sri Lanka then the US and UK would have sent the forces to bring down the dictator president and brothers who runs the country and the liberate the people.

First, what would be wrong with that, as you appear to be implying? (Disclaimer, there was a lot wrong with the way it was conducted, but not the principle.) Second, there are clearly other oil-rich democracy-free countries which haven’t been invaded.

While LTTE method can be extreme, they do not target the civillian population only the SL army.

Even with my limited knowledge of the conflict, I know this to be a blatant lie.

I don’t think that “reacting within its defensive rights” was all it did – I think it went further than that. Whether it acted within international law is questionable, at times it may well not have done – there are certainly credible voices suggesting this may be the case.

Translation: I really have no clue, but let’s bash Israel anyway, because it’s more fun to libel Joos than to bother with facts.

Who do you think committed the large balance of “war crimes” in the recent Gaza conflict ?

I don’t know. I am more concerned about the amount of death and suffering inflicted, and much more of it was inflicted on the inhabitants of Gaza.

Translation: On the one hand I know damn well that the whole Hamas mindset is predicated on a genocidal intent and that a large part of what they carried out was a war crime by definition; but on the other, if I admit to that then I have pulled the rug from under my determination to libel the Joos. So I’ll just run away from answering, in the usual cowardly fashion.

Hamas won the Palestinan Authority parliamentary elections in 2006, but broke off power sharing negotiations with the executive in order to mount a coup.

You know better than that, David. Perhaps you can come up with a bit of a more detailed and sophisticated analysis.

The mystery is why some people who claim to be on the Left obsess so much and so monomaniacally about Israel and its supposed crimes out of all the issues in the World

Many people who are basically losers – just look at the sort of people making up the SWP – need a scapegoat to prove to themselves that they are not really losers, that it’s someone else’s fault, that there is a global conspiracy against them, that they are being stabbed in the back. Add to that the completely bonkers idea that the Arabs are ‘brown people’ and the Jews are ‘white people’; throw into the mix the equally bonkers and racist lefty idea that every ‘white’ person is personally guilty for all the ills that befall every ‘brown’ person, and the latent conviction that the proper place for Jews to be is victims, and when they are not they are being uppity – and for many people that is enough to leap with glee at the solution to the enigma: It’s the Joos, stupid.

There are other pathways to this conclusion, but it’s getting late.

You know better than that, David. Perhaps you can come up with a bit of a more detailed and sophisticated analysis.

Oh, I am sure you will grace us with your own Mother Goose version of the truth.
Maybe this: there was no coup, it was a mass hallucination induced by the Mossad’s subetheric pulse-code modulated rays.

Tamil solidarity politics in Britain is virtually non existent, outside the Tamil community.

I very much doubt HP has any genuine interest in the plight of the Tamils, and so its a hypocritical observation. It’s simply being used to accuse folk of being over-obsessed with Palestinians. However, its a dubious argument in itself. If Palestinians are having their human rights abused, its a reprehensible argument to simply ‘why are you not talking about the Tamils’, as if you actually care about the Tamils, and somehow the Tamil issue is a counter to offset other human rights abuses. That’s an empty tactic, its not a real argument.

Oh, I am sure you will grace us with your own Mother Goose version of the truth.

Well, no, its a simply an incomplete version. A pro-Hamas blog will give an incomplete version of the truth, and a Zionist blog will likely do so too.

As you know the Hamas government and the Hamas-Fatah unity government were rejected out of hand by the US and the Israelis, supposedly because of the non-recognition issue, even though thats a red herring, meaningless, and it didn’t stop Israel negotiating with Hamas later. The consequences of this was further strain on Palestinian society, an undermining of democracy, and the fermenting of civil war – in a classic twist the US started arming the already corrupt Fatah to fight Hamas. This simply made things worse. We are now in the awful situation we are in now – awful, in particular, for Palestinians.

Peacemaking is about step by step moves in confidence building, a respect for democracy, and reduction in violence. The route the Bush White House and Israel took achieved nothing apart from more destruction and misery.

The election of Hamas was a result of material realities – the corruption of Fatah, or as James Wolfensohn notes, the blockade and status of Gaza. A communist style election, whereby Hamas, a major block, was banned from taking part, would have been less hypocritical of the US and Israel, but still would not have solved much in the longer term. Instead, collective punishment ensued, and a disproportionate response (the Israelis are open about disproportionality now). This has done nothing, except produce more death and destruction, with the UN and EU picking up the tab. Indeed, it has only worsened the material realities that are so crucial to improve to build peace.

This conflict is going to be the first of many where a little judicious “genocide” would in the long run save lots of lives and prevent more of these running sores occurring. We have tow many people in their A/C offices judging the IDF, GI’s and the bullet angles. NGO’s often unintentionally exacerbate them! Environmental factors as well as economic factors are going to take the wind out of the sails of the usual suspects from now on .

You know better than that, David. Perhaps you can come up with a bit of a more detailed and sophisticated analysis.

This isn’t the first time in the last couple days I’ve seen Benji spin and lie this blatantly. What the fuck is wrong with him now? And hasn’t the fucker finally been blocked? PLEASE?

The only visible excitement shown by commentators on here over Tamils dying at the hands of an ethnic chauvinist Sinhalese regime, over the deaths of Kashmiris at the hands of a brutal occupying power, or over the scores of villagers dying through the Pakistani or American air power, occurs when points can be scored over the bloody ‘loony left’. I don’t see how you can cast stones at the ‘loony left’ for having a monomania.

Oh and this attitude:

“This conflict is going to be the first of many where a little judicious “genocide” would in the long run save lots of lives and prevent more of these running sores occurring.”

my dear fucking god. the sources of these running sores (oppressed and repressed minorities around the world) thank you for saving them from themselves. they should just give in at the first sign of a little genocidin’

While the Israeli-Palestinian conflict continues to gather the most publicity and international attention, it is the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir that is by far the more dangerous since both India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons.

Actually, the India-Pakistan face-off is more dangerous because Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Pakistan’s nukes were developed expressly to be used against India (and they will be so used, it’s only a matter of time before a jihadi gets his fingers on the button). India’s nukes were developed in defense against China.

Benjamin smears all of HP with his unfounded speculations in a desperate attempt to silence speech but I very much doubt Benjamin has any genuine interest or care in the plight of anyone anywhere unless HP posts an article about someone or some event cuing him to pop up and oppose it with smears and unfounded generalizations. For Benjamin and for others of the anti-imperialism of idiots antizionist stopper lobby when Palestinian human rights are abused by other Palestinians as documented by Palestinians it becomes utterly reprehensible to them that anyone would have the audacity to report it. Benjamin wants all information and discussion on human rights abuses and war crimes suppressed or muzzled according to the following criteria: 1. if HP discusses the matter and 2. if the US and Israel aren’t implicated as the perps. Otherwise Benjamin doesn’t give a damn as any fool can see from the very few posts he uploads to his own blog. Benjamin is an empty tactic.

Was
my dear fucking god. the sources of these running sores (oppressed and repressed minorities around the world) thank you for saving them from themselves. they should just give in at the first sign of a little genocidin’…………………

Most of the world, outside the angst ridden West , is composed of oppressed and repressed minorities, go out there and do something about, if really worries you so much! If not lets chat over a pint ,blame the Americans for everything and sing a nice Abba song, I believe in Angels something good in everyone.

This isn’t the first time in the last couple days I’ve seen Benji spin and lie this blatantly.

I am sorry that you think like that Josh. I was just saying that David’s commentary on the matter was somewhat incomplete. Its a paradox. Put it this way: if Israel is really interested in a two state solution (and I doubt it is at the moment), it should be more clear about what it wants. One option is to go down the road of supporting increased democracy and institution building; or it could just encourage yet another compliant dictatorship – increasing the corruption of Fatah, and all the authoritarianism that goes with it. At the moment there seems little fertile earth for Palestinian moderates and centrists – who actually have played important roles. The current situation plays into the hands of extremists and authoritarians.

Benjamin smears all of HP with his unfounded speculations in a desperate attempt to silence speech

Well I speak to you through the wonders of Tor, having been banned by HP, so your accusation (as with many utterances at HP), is laden with irony. I was banned for making light of a mad MEMRI mullah, rather than joining in the regulation spitting condemnation and vituperation.

I have never called for anyone to be banned or attempted to silence speech. In practical terms it’s quite hard to do anyway. Living near mainland China we are aware of the electronic and digital goodies available to circumvent communists. I can assure you that Harry’s Place is small fry by contrast.

MMN,

The mystery is why some people who claim to be on the Left obsess so much and so monomaniacally about Israel and its supposed crimes out of all the issues in the World.

Do you have a view on that ?

No I don’t have much of a view to be honest, as I don’t obsess about it myself and tend to avoid those that do. I think that such attitudes do exist but not as much as you think – I hang around at a number of leftish blogs (including PP) and in general I would say that I/P is not high on people’s agenda’s, although clearly it will attract comment when it is prominent in the news and as it is a long running issue which has had a high profile in the news for many years I don’t think it surprising that people have stronger opinions on it than on other international conflicts.

And it’s worth pointing out that there are people with very strong and very inflexible opinions on both sides, and this tends to raise the heat of many discussions in a way that doesn’t apply to other issues. For example, in my previous reply I made it pretty clear that I thought Israel’s actions were excessive but that I wasn’t entirely clear on questions of international law, which to someone like Nearly Oxfordian means that I am looking for an excuse to bash the “Joos”.

WRT to the drones, I do find it a bit curious that they have not had much coverage, I mean it’s hardly as if the US’s actions are not generally subject to scrutiny. And that was the case even before Obama took office, so I don’t even think it is down to him being given an easy ride. I really don’t know if they are legal but I don’t think they are having much positive effect.

Andrew – on the drones issue I think its because for us in the West anything that harms our main enemies Al-Qaeda and the Taliban is generally OK, even with collataral damage.

Which is presumably what many Israelis think about the tactics of the attack on Hamas in Gaza.

Which is presumably what many Israelis think about the tactics of the attack on Hamas in Gaza.

Such an attitude may simply be blithe if Israel was achieving its war aims and generally moving towards peace and two states (yes, two states, don’t laugh, this is what the Israelis have signed up to).

However, this is not being achieved, so one wonders what that attitude is really about. Well, I guess if there are fewer Palestinians in the occupied territories so much the better for some. It’s always been an issue for Israelis: the existence of Arabs in the occupied territories – even in Israel within the 67 borders to a certain extent. The demographic ‘problem’. Not discussed much, except behind closed doors – it raises too many uncomfortable issues.

What a stupid post from Benjamin – unusually so even from him. One thousand dead in Gaza (a purely hypothetical number – nobody really knows) has nil impact on the overall population question.

Of course, Brig. ‘Sage’ Benjamin knows exactly what Israel’s military aims are every day and every hour, and he knows to the last iota to what extent they were achieved.

As to me, I don’t pretend to have the same sort of permanent hyperspace link to IDF Ops HQ that he has; but I suspect that the aims included weakening Hamas’ infrastructure, killing as many high-level commanders as possible, and sending a strong signal – even if only to achieve a reduction in the mean level of aggression towards Israel. Any such reduction is a positive step: it’s doing what’s achievable in the real world; and to call it ‘excessive’ action on Israel’s part is tantamount to saying ‘Israel must accept civilian casualties and ongoing attacks, without responding and without making any attempt to deal with them’ – and not saying this about any other country in the world. Yes, that’s Israel bashing.

my dear fucking god. the sources of these running sores (oppressed and repressed minorities around the world) thank you for saving them from themselves. they should just give in at the first sign of a little genocidin’

According to you, should the Jews give in at the first sign of attempted genocide?

“The demographic ‘problem’. Not discussed much, except behind closed doors – it raises too many uncomfortable issues.”

More Jewish conspiracies, Benjamin? Where are you getting this inside information? Have the Elders a mole?

In relation to the Tamil Tigers, the following has not happened:

You forget to mention something very important that has not happened either.

There has been no information on Tamil terror on the cover pages of the most important papers around the world. While the Tamils kill innocent Sinhalese and the Palestinians kill innocent Israelis, only the terror against Israelis is prominently reported, even if the Sinhalese have been killed in vastly higher numbers.

In a nutshell, the world cares about terrorism only when the victims are Jewish.

The problem here is that you like it when terror against Jews is given preferential treatment, but not when human rights abuses by Jews are also preferently reported. In other words, you want to have it both ways.

See my analysis of the issue here.

More Jewish conspiracies, Benjamin? Where are you getting this inside information? Have the Elders a mole?

I assume you jest. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state, unlike say Britain or the USA, who do not define themselves by one segment of the population. It is therefore inevitable that demographics are a concern. In the occupied territories, quite apart from the PA, Israel cannot give the the Palestinians equal rights, for demographic reasons that should be obvious.

Put bluntly Israel has four options:

1. Wipe out or exile the Palestinians in the occupied territories and annex land.
2. Move all of Palestinians to Jordan, or give some land to Jordan.
3. New Palestinian state.
4. Continue with the status quo – gradual encroachment of settlements, denial of rights. This will result in South African style battle for full rights.

Of course its about demographics.

That’s a very good point Hasbara.

(No swastikas on display – but then in this context, it might be confusing)

But the demonstrators at the pro-Tamil rally do hold a sign describing the Sri Lankan situation as a genocide, when it’s clearly not. Where are the Sinhalese soldiers going house to house shooting civilians? Yet I don’t recall HP admonishing the pro-Tamil camp for making an outrageous analogy.

- Here is a search for “Tamil” on the Socialist Worker site. Here is a search for Gaza.

Here’s a search for “Palestinian terrorism” on Harry’s Place. Here’s a search for “Tamil terrorism.” Remember, in the first half of 2008 Tamil terrorists killed more than 166 people, more than ten times as many as Palestinian terrorists.

A textbook case of pots, kettles and blackness.

HB

Of course, the world does care if the victims are not Jewish too, but the point about it cutting both ways still stands. It is a good one.

Well HB indeed. I don’t want to hear much more about I/P either. Perhaps we should just let Israel get on with destroying Hamas in peace. I’m fine with that personally. I also don’t mind if we don’t hear about Palestinian suicide bombers in Israel – publicity only leads to more such incidents.

Iin return you Idiot Left scum can go and picket and boycott some other worse country than Israel – its not as if there aren’t plenty to choose from.

Because Israel is a huge friend of the West and sometimes seen as incapable of committing any wrong. Duh!

Also, Palestinians are majority Muslim and so the great number of Muslims in this world will show solidarity with them on religious grounds.

As for the anti-semitism theory, that might generate just as much interest as Islamophobia does for the other side.

You seem confused, Benjamin. If we include the territories, it is no longer a demographic problem, but one of granting a Palestinian majority equal rights in Greater Israel. But I thought we were both in favour of a two-state solution.

The State of Israel’s story is all about solving a demographic problem. I expect Israel will follow the path it has always taken on this issue: promoting Jewish immigration. This is no great secret, and not something that is discussed only ‘behind closed doors’.

My point is a simple one: you are wont to insinuate conspiracies where Israel is concerned. Who is discussing this demographic problem ‘behind closed doors’? What have they decided?

Tim,

I was just cycling through the options. It is still a demographic problem in Greater Israel if the Arabs are given equal rights: they suddenly become the majority, or close to. That’s the nub. Israel, because it defines itself a Jewish state, cannot simply give everyone equal rights in Greater Israel. Hence, to expand, it must involve at least some ethnic cleansing, or some sort of apartheid, keep the Arab population down or not counted fully.

Promoting Jewish immigration won’t solve this issue. I say behind closed doors because of the bind Israel is in. Pushing for expansion, which it did explicitly in the 1970s and 1980s, inevitably leads to the pressures I describe (the Labour Party at one point advocated expansion and giving the remaining land to Jordan). Its not going to discuss the demographic problem too openly because of the uncomfortable conclusions they must inevitably draw.

The status quo is simply an apartheid-style situation in the occupied territories, with or without the PA.

Alec with your limited knowledge you wouldnt know if it is the truth. You should try to understand this in more depth to get to the truth.

The SL government is welcomed by the western countries purely for the arms supply. Any news you get from SL is controlled by the government. If you dig deeper you will discover that if you say anything anti war or anti government they will disappear. Even if you speak to a Tamil there they would be anti LTTE due to the fear of being killed, where as if you speak to the tamil refugees who have escaped they will tell you what really happens in Sri Lanka. Many journalist has been killed. You should read this artcle by a Sinhalese journalist! http://www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/36072/2009/00/15-121804-1.htm

The Hasbara Buster, the reason why dont see tamil terror is because most of the dead are the tamils by the sinhalese army. When did the tamils kill sinhalese civillains? Where as the indiscrminate killing by the army does not make the headlines like this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/air-strike-on-sri-lankan-orphanage-kills-61-schoolgirls-411901.html

Only some suicide bombs could be said to be backed by tigers but the government can and have used that an excuse to commit genocide

He called himself the Tamil Tiger when they used so called daring tatics bi-planes, speedboats etc not to mention suicide. Now he is on the run, and he is being hunted, slightly tongue in cheek, but with no sympathy why not let the Sri Lankans hunt him down like they used to do with real tigers? Real tigers do not need insulin and do not naturally occur in Sri Lanka!

Both these feuds triggered by the british goverment.. america has a high population of jews , with extremely well paid jobs and and are in top positions to have an affect on parlimentary decisions.. muslims could be jealous that the jews are more smarter and educated.. just like in sri lanka where they standardised the grades which a tamil had to get and a sinhlese, as the sinhala majority felt dominated by the tamil miniority as they tended to be smarter so the uped the grades u had to get to go uni for tamils.. this is the starting.. however i would not agree that l.t.t.e where terrorist… they formed as a reslut of the opression of tamils.. more and more tamils are supporting the L.T.T.E in canada there was a protest of 200,000 many holding the ltte flag showing support .. however the tamils n sinhala ppl get n fine just the tamils n da sri lankan goverment whereas jews n muslims h8 each other how can they resolve their problem..

Erm… there are 12,000 results for Tamil on socialist worker and 3000 for Gaza.
This does not prove your point whatsoever. There’s actually a lot about Sri Lanka in the paper.

Erm… there are 12,000 results for Tamil on socialist worker and 3000 for Gaza.
This does not prove your point whatsoever. There’s actually a lot about Sri Lanka in the paper.

“Erm… there are 12,000 results for Tamil on socialist worker”

Yeah, but there’s only 8000 hits for “socialism” on the Socialist Worker website.

Something is wrong with Google, their archives, or the focus of their site has changed a bit!

Actually – it has to do with the way their news is aggregated. They have 29000 pages roughly (from Googling “the” == same number of results as “socialism”). Google’s robots will hunt their archives regularly, meaning all current headlines (e.g. “massive Tamil demonstration in London”) will crop up up on many of those pages as hits. That 12000 of these 29000 webpages would be coverage of Sri Lanka and/or Tamils ought to have set alarm bells ringing…

Actually looking at the Google results (rather than doubleposting some “wah wah wah!” cheap point-scoring shite) would have confirmed this.

By page 2, “tamil” is turning up in articles entitled:

“Limits to mortgage help: ticking timebomb”, “Thursday morning at Visteon occupations” and “Slavoj Zizek’s Ideas need to link with reality”.

Are these all articles about Sri Lanka and/or Tamils?

Christ.

The Socialist Worker then has roughly 10 articles AT MOST on Sri Lanka. A similar test on the “Gaza” Google results turns up considerably more about Israel; I gave up after 20 pages of results…

In other words:

FAIL.

Apologies.

(from Googling “the” == same number of results as “socialism”)

should read

(from Googling “the” == same number of results as “socialist” – a word that ought to be on every page).

The point stands.