Harry's Place

All this blood, honour and martyrdom bullshit … is Qaradawi a Kingon? I’ve a shade less contempt for those who are willing to be martyrs than those who send out children to do it for them. If Qaradawi wants to wheel himself out in front of a firing squad, please let me be one of the gunmen.

It’s funny how it’s the bigwigs at the top desiring martyrdom but it’s the kids and mentally challenged actually doing the martyring.

So what he’s saying is that he’s prepared to be a martyr, but only when his life is already reaching its end. His answer to euthanasia by the sounds of things.

Ariel Sharon: “Whoever aims to kill Jews, whoever sends murderers to kill Jews, is marked for death”

Benjamin and friends – so why was Sharon wrong?

Wot, no picture of Ken Livingstone and Qaradawi in brotherly embrace? Ken really does appear to be thoroughly besotted.

And this is why former Prime Minister Mahathir of Malaysia was calling the concept of human rights a Jewish conspiracy to make it seems as if killing Jews is bad.

Malaysia is a long way from the middle east and a place where they’re probably never even seen a Jew.

So is this not evidence that Islam itself is the cause of this genocidal antisemitism?

Poisonous and hateful. This from a representative of the ‘religion of peace’ who blasphemes with his every breath. What are Al Jazerra doing piping this muck into the ether? What about the ‘names’ who have taken the AJ shilling? How do they reconcile this with ‘journalism’? You thought the BBC was bad, look at this mob.

Marvin,
And this is a surprise because …?

Dan,
‘Blood, honour and martyrdom’ are code-words used by fascists throughout history. They mean: I have no concept of honour, and I want to spill someone else’s blood because I am a little shit and total waste of space.

David T:

Nobody is surprised by this any more.

Au contraire, in the real World in Blighty -and I suspect it’s the same in the US and elsewhere in the developed World – the vast bulk of voters just havn’t seen this sort of stuff. Because the MSM, in their wisdom, will not show what attitudes are quite common amongst the Ummah.

It’s not that “nobody is surprised by this any more” that’s the issue. It’s that few care.

1) The evidence suggests that, unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of Muslims subscribe to hateful, murderous views, that so-called Muslim moderates are anything but and that genuine moderates are actually a tiny minority, bereft of influence.
2)?
3) Hey guys let’s open our borders!

4) Prophet!

It would be interesting to understand the context in which Al Jazeera broadcast this hateful bilge. Was it by way of an expose, or in a ‘Songs of Praise’ promulgation service to Muslims as the bulk of their viewership sort of way?

I suspect it may well be the latter, but I’d really prefer to be wrong.

The problem here is that, although it is plain as a pikestaff that the Muslim Brotherhood is an openly and genocidally racist movement, there is pretty much nobody – with a few exceptions – who treats this as a matter or concern.

What I mean by this is that groups like Unite Against Fascism wouldn’t countenance opposing this sort of politics: for the simple reason that they support it. Even groups like Searchlight are pretty shy about mentioning this issue.

On the other side, we have some VERY energetic and successful MB and other Islamist groups, which are again being invited to partner with, not only liberal and progressive organisations, but Government. We have groups like Conflicts Forum and Forward Thinking who are pushing the “Moderate Muslim Brotherhood” thesis very hard indeed, and at the highest level.

So I am pretty downbeat.

This guy is a wacko fringe figure with no real traction apart from the whole being invited to London by the mayor thing.

Yes, Homercles, but look at the statistics for how many young Muslims in this country agree with such and similar sentiments.

Is he starting to displace Osama as a popular background picture on French cell phones?

“Ariel Sharon: “Whoever aims to kill Jews, whoever sends murderers to kill Jews, is marked for death”
Benjamin and friends – so why was Sharon wrong?”

“Tevya” is the prime example of the feebleness of though current at the moment. His response to this story is one of “equivalence”.

An interesting thesis, since I assume it would legitimise and validate the Jews of Europe in exterminating six million “Aryans”; the Jews of the UK wiping out the population of York and Norwich; persecuting Christians for two millenia; etc. and so forth.

BUt, as with all contract arrangements and faux notions of “equivalence” there is always a surplus; in this instance of surplus of stupidity and of something far nastier and far more toxic.

Okay, but… haha, funny hat!

I hope Ken is reading this blog!

We’re labouring under the fatal misapprehension that the supposed anti-racism of Livingstone, Milne, Bunting, Pitt and so on actually extends to being embarrassed or surprised by this.

They’re not.

They “contextualise” it as far as they can: and then they ignore it.

What they’re mostly motivated by is the thought that they’re part of a huge anti-imperialist, anti-capitalist wave, that they’ll ride into power.

Actually, they’re witnessing a pretty well advanced campaign of genocidal racism, aimed primarily but not exclusively at Jews.

The problem here is that, although it is plain as a pikestaff that the Muslim Brotherhood is an openly and genocidally racist movement, there is pretty much nobody – with a few exceptions – who treats this as a matter or concern.

Well, I disagree with you. I’m seeing a greater willingness on the part of SOME mainstream politicians to at least admit there may be a big probleme. Also, we’re seeing the emergence of a couple of true moderates, and not just ‘moderates-for-pay’. In addition there are some rumblings in the islamic world itself that certain elements in islam’s scriptures, namely the hadith, should perhaps be edited. One chap from Egypt ( forget his name, but he has quite a reputation) has suggested eliminating over 600 hadith either because of their mention violence or incite to violence.

There seems to be a slow, yawning awakening in some quarters.

‘Accentuate the positive’, as the old tune goes.

Homercles, the depressing thing is that Qaradhawi is very, very far from being a wacko fringe figure in the Arab and Muslim worlds. See here for a start on Islam Online.

Here Qaradawi emits yet another fatwa (Islamic legal opinion) confirming that, in relation to Israel:

“Waiving the right to Muslim land is not only haram, it is one of the gravest sins, which make those who do them commit the great unbelief, may Allah the Almighty spare us such fate.”

Nice to know that peace is impossible as a matter of law.

Brett is right that very few care about the genocial racism.

The cumulative weight of 60 years of oil-fueled propaganda bears some responsibility for this.

But there’s also some cognitive dissonance: some people just can’t bear to believe that even with their perfect, right-on morality, they’ve actually been backing the genocidal racists. Therefore, they can’t be racists.

And there’s also the Greenstock analysis: I can’t see it, I won’t see it – therefore, it isn’t there.

Tevya,
Apologies for shooting the messenger for the message.

I find it hard to accept that this antisemitic hate comes from someone who is called a highly respected Islamic cleric, someone endorsed by MCB. He is one of many religious Islamic leaders who say similar things.

We are asked to be careful not to castigate most/all Muslims for believing this stuff and yet the preachers must be sustained by a constituency who loves this sort of stuff.

Given the hatred in the Muslim Community towards Israel, and by implication Jews, then I just wonder if we are the frogs in the boiling water and that the support for such views is widespread.

I really don’t know but I fear the worst rather than the best.

I base this on the closet racism. There are many instances of people being caught out saying things in so-called private being found out.

I remember reading on Wikipedia that the “enemies” of this Memri channel at least accepted that the “translations were 100% accurate“. In other words, that flank is not attacked. What’s left then? The er… context. “Oh, all you see is the village idiots“. The problem is I have seen quite NOTORIOUS people, NOT village idiots…

This shit could be called “what happens when the Middle Ages Savages meet and assimilate the modern [American & European] racism“. In fact, that’s an accurate description.

I truly dislike Sharon, but I DO love that quote (posted above).

Dan
3 February 2009, 5:00 pm

All this blood, honour and martyrdom bullshit … is Qaradawi a Kingon? I’ve a shade less contempt for those who are willing to be martyrs than those who send out children to do it for them.

Dan, Nearly Oxfordian and Homercles:

According to the Middle East Media Research Instute, Sheik YQ is an extremely wealthy man of the cloth, with about a half dozen kiddies attending university in the UK and the US. I cannot tell you if the wealth is inherited, or if it’s the result of his weekly broadcasts on Al Jazeera and any other “enterprise”.

As for the willful blindness of Livingstone, Bunting, Milne et al, it’s no different from the willful blindness towards Arafat and what he said in Arabic (urging the lessers of society on to martyrdom) vs English (we want peace) while raking off millions in aid for himself, his wife and his buddies. On this theme, I highly recommend Michael Totten’s recent post of Khaled Abu Toameh’s discussion of I/P affairs:

Michaeltotten.com
February 1, 2009
A Minority Report from the West Bank and Gaza

“This guy is a wacko fringe figure with no real traction apart from the whole being invited to London by the mayor thing.”

Qaradawi is not a fringe figure. He is one of the most influential figures in radical Islam and an expert in shariah among a significant number of imams in Europe.

“Sheik YQ is an extremely wealthy man of the cloth”

He provides guidance on Islamic finance – this is his principal commercial activity used to fund his political activity. The government should impose sanctions on banks that employ proponents of terrorism, like Qaradawi. It won’t, but it should.

In 60% reference to this discussion:-

“Merkel joins Papal Holocaust row” – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7867775.stm. Here Merkel says

A row erupted last month after Pope Benedict XVI lifted the excommunication of Bishop Richard Williamson, who had said no Nazi gas chambers existed.

Pope Benedict has distanced himself from those beliefs and expressed “full and indisputable solidarity” with Jews.

“This should not be allowed to pass without consequences,” Mrs Merkel said at a news conference in Berlin.

“This is not just a matter, in my opinion, for the Christian, Catholic and Jewish communities in Germany but the Pope and the Vatican should clarify unambiguously that there can be no denial,” she said

This dovetails with a Catholic and Islamic preacher/priest both engaging in Holocaust Denial.

The BBC last sentence is interesting:-

About six million Jews were killed during the Holocaust.

Unhelpful paraphrases:-

“As near as dammit!”, “According to the Jews”, “Most people estimate”, “Well, we suppose it could be five and a half million”.

BBC, have you forgotten the non-Jewish victims of The Holocaust? Aren’t you making out as if its ONLY Jewish suffering that’s important?

Qaradawi is not a fringe figure. He is one of the most influential figures in radical Islam and an expert in shariah among a significant number of imams in Europe.

He’s head of teh European Fatwa Council and I believe he funds/runs/supports the website IslamOnline, where he sometimes answers questions.

Today, in the news, Carol Thatcher is in trouble for using the word “golliwog”. The Bishop Richard Williamson affair has been widely reported. Qaradawi is one of the most widely respected figures in Islam: so why is his genocidal race hate and holocaust denial not reported? This shows the utter failure of Western society to deal with Islam on any level: the news media simply cannot even tell this story.

So where are all the usual charmers that plague this place now? Flanker? Latchford? Zin? Pitt? Rosen? Where is Hasbara Buster? How fascinating that they vanish when something as incendiary and unequivocal as this gets posted.

Let nobody forget the interview Bunting did with this fat animal, let nobody forget Livingston’s courtship of him. This is an important post and justifies David T’s work and indeed this site’s existence in one fell swoop.

Let’s add that Qaradawi said it was OK to suicide bomb Israeli civilians, even women and children, because they would one day be soldiers. He said it was OK to suicide bomb UK soldiers in Iraq.

Livingstone claimed it was all a Mossad/Zionist plot sponsored by MEMRI and false translations – forgetting that Qaradawi repeated those things in a Newsnight interview http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/3875119.stm

Considering he supported “martyrdom operations in Iraq” I am at a loss to understand why he was let into the UK for his first visit.

Ooops! It just came to me! It would have upset the Muslim Community who were so looking forward to his MCB sponsored visit.

I told you so.

So, the former Mayor of London gave a red carpet reception to a man who openly wishes to see and to participate in the perpetration of a second Holocaust….

“The problem for us in the West is that we’ve allowed these people to live among us. And what do they bring? Misogyny, Jew-hatred, bombings, threats, rampant homophobia.”

What goes for antisemites goes too for Islamophobes.

As the above quote shows, they are nothing but low life pieces of shit whose best avoided like the plague.

There really are some wankers around!

So, the former Mayor of London gave a red carpet reception to a man who openly wishes to see and to participate in the perpetration of a second Holocaust….

Don’t be so hard on Livingstone. Qaradummy hadn’t said anything about The Holocaust at that time. He merely, and publicly, stated his views on suicide bombing Israelis and troops in Iraq. Nothing to get Livingstone excited.

Oh, come, come! This is a MEMRI translation, and therefore, as Juan Cole, Ken Livingstone and others have repeatedly assured us, a false and malign deception of Mossad.

What he was really saying is this:

Hope that clears things up for everyone. Honestly, I can’t get my head round how you keep being taken in by these evil Mossad false translations. You can just see what a benign, warm-hearted character he is.

So, the former Mayor of London gave a red carpet reception to a man who openly wishes to see and to participate in the perpetration of a second Holocaust….

But of course I am reviled by assorted posters when I suggest that maybe Livingdead is just a tad Judophobic …

I was prompted by this article to ask why there seems to be so much hatred for Jews amongst certain parts of the Muslim community and leader/preacher hierarchy.

Then I remembered a phrase “Who can forget the emnity of the Jews” and some incident in 632 AD where Mohammed was supossedly poisoned by a Jewess in retaliation for a Mohammed slaughter of Jews.

I found it – and then burst out laughing! Here’s why http://answeringislam.net/Silas/mo-death.htm

Immediately following the conquest of Khaibar, a Jewish woman prepared a dinner for Muhammad and some of his men. Unknown to the Muslims was that she had put a poison into the lamb (some say goat) that was served at dinner. Muhammad ate some of the poisoned lamb and died as a result

I left something out

three years later

I deduce from this that the story is unlikely that someone dies from a poison three years after ingesting it and conclude the story was made up to demonise Jews.

So, even in 632 AD they were at it. Incredible

But there’s also some cognitive dissonance: some people just can’t bear to believe that even with their perfect, right-on morality, they’ve actually been backing the genocidal racists. Therefore, they can’t be racists.

Indeed. It’s similar to the refusal by the lunatic and semi-sane left to accept (some forever, some for a long time) that in backing Stalin, they were backing a monstrous mass-murderer.

Django 6:28:
Hear, hear.

What goes for antisemites goes too for Islamophobes

Perhaps you could remind us of the last time that a prominent Western leader went on television to promote mass-murder of Moslems qua Moslems wherever they were, men women and children.

I see the excretement is attracting those that live off of it.

I was referring to Think of England and nodrog.
One can take a position against antisemites of whatever hue, without replicating their racism.

Qaradawi seems to be combining Holocaust denial with saying that the Jews had it coming. That’s quite a feat.

I’m pleased that Ken is no longer mayor of London, and am only sorry that I missed the chance to vote against him.

One can take a position against antisemites of whatever hue, without replicating their racism.

Agreed. All comments of the “Almost all Muslims are fanatic Jew haters” variety will be deleted. Those who say it repeatedly will be banned.

Interesting. Persistent antisemites are not being banned from HP – unless you are saying that BP has been banned and his posts deleted, and that the same will happen to others like him.

Tim,
Well, there’s the cognitive dissonance already mentioned.

jr 6.23.
Spot on.

We’ve established that no one really cares about this kind of thing.

But let’s stop for a moment. Last week, we had Benji telling us that David T had gone out to find a “scary Muslim”, by way of alleging that the call for genocide on Egpytian TV was a small thing that no-one should worry about.

This is different. Yusuf Qaradawi is currently one of the most influential clerics in the Islamic world. His opinions are relied upon by millions to guide them in their daily life. His reputation is such that very few Muslims, even anti-Jihadis, will criticise him.

And here he is, speaking to the Muslim world on Al Jazeera, telling his followers that the Jews are “Allah’s enemies” and praying that “Allah willing, the next time [that Jews are slaughtered in their millions,] it will be at the hands of the Muslims”.

This looks like the same genocidal mentality that took over Germany. And it is scary.

p.s. thanks to David T, Gene and team for pruning this thread.

p.p.s Judy, love the love-bomb!

My point, rather too crudely made, was that, from reading what goes on here and other sites, people expend quite a bit of time trying to figure out which Muslim group is not anti-Semitic (or anti-British), or finding out that yet another group on the government payroll doesn’t seem to share Western notions of civil society.

“Waiving the right to Muslim land is not only haram, it is one of the gravest sins, which make those who do them commit the great unbelief, may Allah the Almighty spare us such fate.”

The Spanish, Portugese, Indians, citizens of South West France, Maltese, Croatians, Serbs, Sicilians and a few others might be a little concerned to hear that.

Gene

Agreed. All comments of the “Almost all Muslims are fanatic Jew haters”

I havn’t seen too many of those in these here parts. After all, that would be to exaggerate; merely a high proportion of Muslims are fanatic Jew haters, or as Sam Harris eloquently put it:

It is time we recognized’and obliged the Muslim world to recognize’that “Muslim extremism” is not extreme among Muslims.

All too many polls, some done in the UK and the utterances of supposed moderates would seem to back this up. Sam goes on:

The idea that Islam is a “peaceful religion hijacked by extremists” is a dangerous fantasy’and it is now a particularly dangerous fantasy for Muslims to indulge. It is not at all clear how we should proceed in our dialogue with the Muslim world, but deluding ourselves with euphemisms is not the answer. It now appears to be a truism in foreign policy circles that real reform in the Muslim world cannot be imposed from the outside. But it is important to recognize why this is so’it is so because the Muslim world is utterly deranged by its religious tribalism. In confronting the religious literalism and ignorance of the Muslim world, we must appreciate how terrifyingly isolated Muslims have become in intellectual terms. The problem is especially acute in the Arab world. Consider: According to the United Nations’ Arab Human Development Reports, less than 2% of Arabs have access to the Internet. Arabs represent 5% of the world’s population and yet produce only 1% of the world’s books, most of them religious. In fact, Spain translates more books into Spanish each year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the ninth century.

Our press should report on the terrifying state of discourse in the Arab press, exposing the degree to which it is a tissue of lies, conspiracy theories and exhortations to recapture the glories of the seventh century. All civilized nations must unite in condemnation of a theology that now threatens to destabilize much of the Earth. Muslim moderates, wherever they are, must be given every tool necessary to win a war of ideas with their coreligionists. Otherwise, we will have to win some very terrible wars in the future. It is time we realized that the endgame for civilization is not political correctness. It is not respect for the abject religious certainties of the mob. It is reason.

This realisation needs to be disseminated, not suppressed, so that democratic feedback loop, can do its stuff.

wow,

did he really say that??

“love bomb” lol

Interesting. Persistent antisemites are not being banned from HP – unless you are saying that BP has been banned and his posts deleted, and that the same will happen to others like him.

It’s true. Hasbara Buster is an obsessed anti-semite who chose a Hebrew name just to underline that his entire purpose is to oppose the Jews.

Flanker qualifies. TheIrie occasionally gets angry and reveals a mad obsession as has Benji once.

A couple HAVE been banned. If I mention their names, the comment goes into limbo.

Judy: very close to LingOL.

Josh: grow up already. HP has, as I recall, been threatened with libel suits.

My two-word comment has disappeared, presumably because I expressed agreement with Think of England. I never even got detention at school, and now I’ve been Moderated by HP! I’m a rascal! I’m a rebel!
Yeehah!

I posted this on the Guardian’s CiF and it was quickly ‘moderated’.

Fanatic test: I am walking down a street when I encounter a religious proselytizer. He hands me some religious pamphlets containing what he believes is the revealed word of god but to me is just some gibberish. I take the pamphlets, because I am very polite, and walk a few feet away where I come upon a trash can. I toss the tracts into the trash can and continue on my way. If the proselytizer is not a fanatic, he (or she) either ignores my trash tossing (perhaps figuring, I’m a lost cause anyway), or, printing costs being what they are, retrieves the tossed tracts to reuse them.

OR: I can end up being chased down the street by a mob of hysterical, furious people intent on killing me because I insulted their god by disrespecting his (and most assuredly not hers) words as revealed. Police are called to investigate me. Various members of their faith then take to the airwaves denouncing me and calling for my execution.

The latter are fanatics. I don’t want them living near me.

My the fantasies/fanatics of racists!
The disorder of projection of one’s own innermost desires is the most common common of the “shit for brains” brigade characteristics.
How so very predictable.

Related….It seems as if the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, is seeking clarification from the Joseph Ratzinger – the German, ex-Hitler Youth Pontif – on the Catholic position on the Holocaust (the Nazi one, not the Zionist on), following the Catholic Churche’s rehabilitation of British born Holocaust denying prominent Catholic clergyman.

Detail here.

My, the wank-fantasies/fanatics of racists!

The disorder of projection of one’s own innermost desires is the most common common of the “shit for brains” brigade characteristics.
How so very predictable.

Of course, this particular fuckwit’s imagined community exists nowhere other in his own fevered highly damaged imagination.

A wank-fantasy by all other names is still a wank-fantast.

Ignorance is Bliss –

What is your point? Are you saying Qaradawi did NOT make these speeches?

Or are you saying he did, but you don’t care?

Or are you saying he did and you care but no one else is allowed to care?

Whatever it is, you’re not making sense.

Of course, this particular fuckwit’s imagined community exists nowhere other in his own fevered highly damaged imagination.

Neither did Hitler’s to begin with….

It is impossible to defend Qaradawi (and was even before this latest outburst.) Ken Livingstone was wrong to invite him and hopefull all politicians have learnt something about self-appointed “community leaders” due to that experience.

The lines are now down – there is no more difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. And the Qaradawi supporters, e.g. Ken Quislingstone and the MAB – deserve no less public ostracism than do the BNP. They should be treated exactly the same, and shouted down whenever they appear. About time we started. There is NOTHING racist about targeting the anti-Semitic Nazlim organisations. (Nazlim – first syllable pronounced to rhyme with “farts”.)

Hmm …. here we are at the 70 posts mark and still we wait for the usual suspects to come and defend this (admittedly influential) piece of human trash.

Couldn’t Benji be allowed to step up to bat? I’m sure he’d try, though the sheer predictability of it would be soul destroying. Where’s HPBNP when you need him, or even Richard Farnos.

It is fascinating watching the “anti Zionist” brigade try to deflect the horror of this man. Or it would be, if they dared. Except for one or two feeble attempts, they don’t seem enjoined in commentary. Surely they could try the “MEMRI ZIONIST TRANSLATION LIES” or something? Come on – for old time’s sake.

Come now, chaps. A storm in a teacup. Trust HP to get all hot and bothered about this asiatic fellow and his typically poetic outpourings. They’re like that in the East, don’t you know? But tish and fipsy, ’tis no more significant than when one of those Jew chappies goes on about the Egyptians in that Passing Over festival they have at around the same time real people celebrate Easter. Let’s all just calm down and have a lovely cup of tea. And everything will be fine. Yes, it will. Fine and calm. Calm. Calm. Everything is simply .. fine. EXCEPT THE BLOODY GUARDIAN, WHO HAD THE CHEEK TO FIRE ME AND PUBLICISE IT! THEY CAN BURN IN THE HOTTEST CIRCLE OF HELL! Cough.. fine.

Europe, you have a problem.

Points must go to ‘Ignorance is Bliss’ of course. Unfortunately however, he/she(unlikely)/it(probable) is a particularly pathetic specimen. Another one whose method is to turn up here to scream at the entity he believes is ‘Harry’s Place’ before having a rectal prolapse, groaning and crawling off. Wretched.

We certainly have a problem when Qaradawi is feted as a moderate and Wilders is persecuted as an extremist.

NotBenjamin: ’tish and fipsy’.

They can carve those three words on Benj’s gravestone. Bloody brilliant, well done.

Actually I’m less curious about Red Ken, Bunting and Milne than about people like Walt and Mearsheimer. They seem to think that if one throws Israel or all the Jews under the bus, than one can reach an agreement with Qaradawi and others like him. Are they being really realistic or have they fallen prey to wishfull thinking?

And to Livingstone, Bunting, Milne, et al: Nothing Qaradawi is saying now is inconsistent with what he was saying four or five years ago– that is, when he wasn’t pretending to be reasonable for Western audiences.

HP keeps pointing this out and expecting to be thrown a bun for being very clever, but as usual it’s distorting the facts so as to promote its anti-Muslim agenda.

Livingstone I think can be called somewhat naive for believing Qaradhawi was more moderate and tractable than he has occasionally turned out to be, but it was a reasonable mistake that he has acknowledged. Ken deserves tremendous credit for at least trying to engage influential Muslims in a dialogue. He briefly explained the circumstances and his thinking in a recent interview:

Tucker: But you were accused yourself of inviting over Al-Qaradawi, who has himself has been pilloried, fairly or unfairly, as a mad fundamentalist. What happened there?

Livingstone: Well, Al-Qaradawi just happened to be coming. To my shame, I was so ignorant about the theological disputes between the various wings of Sunni Islam, I knew nothing about Al-Qaradawi…

Tucker: Not part of the job description of the London Mayor then? [Laughter]

Livingstone: No, I rapidly found out. Effectively, you have the Wahabi strand of Islam… they had the first real encounter with the West and that was Gordon’s defeat at Khartoum. But it was taken up by the Saudi royal family, funded massively, and it is a particularly intolerant and backward looking strand of Islam. Then you have Al-Qaradawi, whose writings and programmes are accessed by hundreds of millions of Muslims, who talks about engagement with the West, whose own daughters have all been educated in the West. The Wahabi and the Saudis are virulently anti-Qaradawi, and that’s the choice.

Of course, some people might say ‘ah, there is a small group of twenty five wholly secular Muslims who are all good socialists’ – that’s fine, I really want to work with them. But the choice you have actually got is Wahabi or Qaradawi. Qaradawi’s not perfect, he is not going to turn up on a gay rights march. But that’s the choice that’s being fought over in the Muslim world, and you therefore work with the most progressive elements.

When John the 23rd became Pope in 1958, people didn’t say ‘oh, he is not very good on women’s rights’. They were just delighted that here was a Pope saying ‘well, we don’t think the Jews murdered Christ’. I mean, he started that great commission on contraception, which had he lived would have actually changed Catholic policy, but he died. And then Paul the 6th changed the composition, with catastrophic results for humanity.

That’s grown-up politics – you sometimes have to work with some pretty dodgy people, or put feelers out, if the alternative is even more dodgy. The Left used to understand this and realised that in momentous times, such as WW2 when Britain faced an existential threat – as in many ways it might today – the realistic choice wasn’t between pure democracy versus totalitarianism, but siding with Stalin against the worse and more immediate horrors of Nazism.

I do apologise for the confusion.

My comments refer to Think of England, but on reflection they refer also to the antisemitism of Qaradawi. In linking his own antisemitic fantasies with the reality of the Holocaust, he wanks off imagining that he will have a part in the (next) massacre of Jews and can imagine a world in which not only does he not need to “live near them”, but that they do not live at all.

He made those speeches; they are to be taken very seriously. In fact, Qarawdi is especially dangerous because his antisemitism is integral to his political ideology. Take away the hatred of the Jews and everything else in his “thought” crumbles. Antisemitism is the gel that holds it altogether. It is not marginal, it is central.

I agree with other posters that many who see this overt antisemite as somehow leading an anti-impearilist charge, will downplay it in the same way that the Stalinist fellow-travellers downplayed the purges and (if they had a chance (would have downplayed the “Dr’s Plot”).

Of course, these apologist for genocide are correct that it is for “domestic consumption” – antisemitism as a “vote-catcher” has always proved its worth – but he is safe too in the knowledge that those Brits in foreign land will, either not believe it, or will explain it as rhetoric. After all, a mere 60 years on, who is really going to believe that some fuckwit is calling for the end of a people’s existence. (After all, they didn’t believe the threat the first time round, so no-one can mean it now, what with all the evidence?).

So now the realistic choice must be not between pure democracy versus totalitarianism, but siding with Qaradawi against the worse and more immediate horrors of …….(?)

“To conclude my speech, I’d like to say that the only thing I hope for is that as my life approaches its end, Allah will give me an opportunity to go to the land of Jihad and resistance, even if in a wheelchair. I will shoot Allah’s enemies, the Jews, and they will throw a bomb at me, and thus, I will seal my life with martyrdom. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds. Allah’s mercy and blessings upon you.”

Has anyone ever confessed to having lived an emply life in more stark terms.

I hope he lives to two hundred in a wheel chair and keeps begging Jews to kill him and they keep laughing in his face.

“Has anyone ever confessed to having lived an emply life in more stark terms.”

The problem’s: he is not the only one. Anyone here read HM Enzensberger’s short book on The Radical Loser?

So now the realistic choice must be not between pure democracy versus totalitarianism, but siding with Qaradawi against the worse and more immediate horrors of …….(?)

Er … radical Wahabism and Al Qaeda, perhaps?

He made those speeches; they are to be taken very seriously. In fact, Qarawdi is especially dangerous because his antisemitism is integral to his political ideology.

His anti-Semitism, which I am not denying, is the (unfortunately) religious and irrational form taken of his entirely justified outrage and horror at the barbaric Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. And many Muslims, and many others, share that horror, which is a political fact that must be confronted and dealt with, not ignored, and not used as the biscuit in one of HP’s daily anti-Muslim circle jerks.

Voice of Reason: Well done on typing such a long post, whilst fellating ‘Ken’ at the same time. Ms Bunting now awaits your expert attentions, and I for one can’t wait to see how you handle this one.

Remember, of course, that, as today, many on the left and right, prior to 1945, thought of the pinning back of “the Jews’ power” was an entirely legitimate political viewpoint. Of course, none of them dreamt it would be a justification for genocide; and were genuinely shocked at precisely what it was they colluded with.
Similarly, now, in relation to Israel and the US, many on the left and right think that pinning back the power of “the Jews” is an equally valid political point (one repressed by the nefarious machinations of “the Jews”, including their “exploitation” of the Holocaust); but will not believe the language of genocide in which it is framed. They too will protest their innocence should the unthinkable, not so much be thought, as we see, it is, but should it become a reality.

- you sometimes have to work with some pretty dodgy people, or put

feelers out, if the alternative is even more dodgy. The Left used to understand this and realised that in momentous times, such as WW2 when Britain faced an existential threat – as in many ways it might today – the realistic choice wasn’t between pure democracy versus totalitarianism, but siding with Stalin against the worse and more immediate horrors of Nazism

Well I’m not sure what’s expedient in the Hindu Kush is really quite the thing for Islington or Clapham!

No here, you don’t have to fete Fascists, be they Nazi Fascist, BNP Left wing Fascists or Islamic Fascists. You send them packing and call their ideology – mainstream Islam – for the violent, intolerant, barbaric xenephobic ideology that it is. You certainly don’t hug these Fascists.

No, in the case of Muslims – as people, you relate to them as constituents, as citizens equal under the law. To have a policy of relating to them as Muslims, when Islam is intrinsically ….to use the appalling leftist term ‘reactionary’….is a huge, nay massive error. It’s immediately divisive, and plays into the hands of those Koranic literalist xenephobes. It’s time our politicians and our media stop this shit!

Interesting. Persistent antisemites are not being banned from HP – unless you are saying that BP has been banned and his posts deleted, and that the same will happen to others like him.

Gene is still labouring under the Pollyannaish delusion that he can be nice fluffy friends with adherents of a genodical fascist religion. How many more people must die for him to be disabused of this notion? Another 2973? Millions?

I hope he lives to two hundred in a wheel chair and keeps begging Jews to kill him and they keep laughing in his face.

Fuck that. Stick a hellfire missile up his arse and bury his rotting carcass in bacon fat.

No, in the case of Muslims – as people, you relate to them as constituents, as citizens equal under the law.

You relate to them as people who have suffered under the yoke of oppression thanks to the West and its allies, of whom some still suffer today. And that at the very least means treating them as equals, showing respect, and not pissing your pants when a religious leader that many Muslims admire is invited for talks with the Mayor of London.

Alternatively, you could stick a missile up their arses and bury their corpses in bacon fat, which is the kind of enlightened and moderate discourse that Muslims should strive to emulate and HP regards as constructive, presumably.

If I got the point correctly, Ken and Qadarawi are allies in a life-and-death struggle against their own worst enemies, that is, Al Qaeda and Wahhabbism. Quite an interesting angle.

Al Qaeda and Wahhabbism are surely doomed.

“His anti-Semitism, which I am not denying, is the (unfortunately) religious and irrational form taken of his entirely justified outrage and horror at the barbaric Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.”

What a fucking load of bollocks.
1. I have yet to hear of a “rational” form of antisemitism.
2. Antisemitism is always an “irrational (but not necessarily, religious) interpretation of something Jews do, or allege to have done (i.e. antisemitism as a response to Jews owning department stores; antisemitism as a response to Jews not criticising Israel; antisemitism as a response to Israel’s policies in the WB and Gaza)
3. I have yet to hear of an antisemite that does not blame the Jews for the hatred that is dished out to them (being tight, owning the press, the barbaric treatment of others).
4. I have yet to hear of a justification of antisemitism that does not absolve the antisemite from responsibility (it was the Jews fault. He was merely reacting)
5. Maybe a blow to the head delivered hard by someone who is irrational does not hurt as much as a blow to the head delivered by the rational? I think not. Just as a racist fuckwit is a racist fuckwit no matter how “reasonable” they sound.

Under whose yoke and oppression have exactly the Turks suffered? Is there anyone (Muslims included) who has recently suffered under Ottoman yoke and oppression?

Apologies to Ignorance is Bliss for the confusion. It seems only Voice of Reason turned up to stand with Cuddly Q.

But poor VoR, all he could manage to do was defend fantasies of genocide by blaming the pesky Jews for bringing it on themselves. Before reverting to the usual inane (but still funny) tactic of cursing HP as a monolithic single entity. What a bunt.

Classic counter-insurgency strategy is to split the opposition by offering political dialogue and potential influence to your aggregated enemy, leading to one section of that enemy following a non-violent path, isolating an extremist hardcore that can subsequently be neutralised with the help of newly moderated enemies turned allies.

Think of it like this: Al Qaeda is the South Armagh brigade of the IRA, Qaradawi is the Gerry Adams wing, Livingstone is the civil servants conducting secret talks circa ‘91 through a back channel.

The problem for you morons is that HP is Billy Wright and the LVF.

“His anti-Semitism, which I am not denying, is the (unfortunately) religious and irrational form taken of his entirely justified outrage and horror at the barbaric Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.”

Are you insane, “voice of unreason?”

To the German Jew haters Hitler’s antisemitism was the “justified outrage” at the “barbaric Jewish treatment of Germans.”

This is what antisemites always say.

Your views are not credible on any issue, voice of unreason.

Interesting, Gene is now deleting comments that show he doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about.

Amazing.

More bollocks from the anti-Imperialist wankers.
Antisemitism is justified racism, Islamophobia is nothing but the consequence of centuries of oppression.

What this jerk is saying is that there are two types of racism, a “good” one (i.e. a distortion of legitimate opposition) and a “bad” one – one ingrained in “the West”. And that one explains away the first and fights the second.

Both absoutely wrong! Politically, theoretically and practically.
You fight racism wherever it appears, whether against Jews, Muslims; or whoever. You don’t do the racists’ job for them by legitimizing it through justification.

If you don’t follow that rule, you become a purveyor of racism itself.

Can I just point out, as someone from Belfast, that VoR is

A. A fucking lunatic; and

B. An murderous anti-semite; and

C. Thinks HP is a place/club/entity

Most people already knew B and C.

VofR you are either an ignorant asshole or a bigot hiding behind the facade of rationality:

Tell us about the “barbaric treatment of Palestinians” that moved Sheikh Yousuf Al-Qaradhawi?

Let’s start with some statisics:

“Despite the media’s obsession with the Mideast conflict, it has cost many fewer lives than the youth bulges in West Africa, Lebanon or Algeria.

In the six decades since Israel’s founding, “only” some 62,000 people (40,000 Arabs, 22,000 Jews) have been killed in all the Israeli-Arab wars and Palestinian terror attacks.

During that same time, some 11 million Muslims have been killed in wars and terror attacks — mostly at the hands of other Muslims.

In Arab nations such as Lebanon (150,000 dead in the civil war between 1975 and 1990) or Algeria (200,000 dead in the Islamists’ war against their own people between 1999 and 2006),”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123171179743471961.html

According to you the shiek should be calling for the extermination of all Muslims since they have been murdering other Muslims at humangous rates.

What kind of “man of reason are you? You sound like a little jerk who got brainwashed in college with “anti Imperialist” junk history and is proud to display his ignorance here.

You need a wake up call, moron.

Ah, at last the clinch argument of the idiot – “morons”.

Apparently, the little lad or lass who is taking politics 101 got all frustrated because people recognised him for the asshole he is.

“Well.like, you know, in the 60’s and 70’s it was, like you know, the IRA, they were the “resistance” and like, you know, the Brits, like were the fucking imperialists. It’s the same in Palestine, fuck, yes, no different. I mean, Hamas is like the Provos, ok, maybe the INLA, and like Qawari is like the fucking dogs bollocks……….I mean, ok, different history, different politics; different time, different regional interests, but like, it’s the fucking same. And, who doesn’t agree with this is a fucking fascist.”

Gosh, it’s been a while…..

“Voice of Reason” -

“That’s grown-up politics – you sometimes have to work with some pretty dodgy people, or put feelers out, if the alternative is even more dodgy.”

Why? Why do we have to “work” with any of them? Why don’t we just kick the whole lot up the arse and keep them ouit of the civilised world? I have a pair of boots I am happy to dedicate to this purpose.

oh fuck, and now civilised vs uncivilised followed by Sartre’s boot on the face.
Is there no end to this insanity?

Let’s see then: England could have avoided that unecessary all-out war with Germany by backing something like a moderate Nazi government in exile. The head of this government would have been Rudolf Hoess. And, among other things, the moderate Nazis would prove their moderation by approving only of the extermination of the Eastern Jews.

Let’s try once more:

Agreed. All comments of the “Almost all Muslims are fanatic Jew haters” variety will be deleted. Those who say it repeatedly will be banned.

Almost all Muslim clerics promote Jew hatred. I can name exactly one reformist sayyid and cleric in the middle east, I bet you can’t even name that many Gene. Look at this thread, Gene, even David is admitting that genocidal hatred is mainstream, primetime on Al Jaz.

“Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear”

You fight racism wherever it appears, whether against Jews, Muslims; or whoever.

Of course you do. It was very important to disabuse African-Americans in the Deep South of the sometimes shocking and weird ideas they had about the white people occasionally lynching them. Nothing could be done to fight for civil rights until every descendant of slaves in Alabama acknowledged that white people were his equals and should never be oppressed by the black man.

And even more important to make sure Jews in Auswitchz harbored no racist or other irrational sentiments against the Germans “guarding” them.

Yes indeed, oppression is no excuse for anything, racism must be prioritised and fought wherever it appears.

Why do we have to “work” with any of them? Why don’t we just kick the whole lot up the arse and keep them ouit of the civilised world? I have a pair of boots I am happy to dedicate to this purpose.

And I know what kind of boots, and what kind of haircut.

Yes, let’s deport all the Muslims. That will solve the problem, once and for all. A Final Solution. Genius!

I think at this point further posting by me is superfluous as the bigits here are digging their own graves with turbocharged JCBs.

VoR answer this: is a poster like, say, Flanker part of ‘Harry’s Place’? Is he part of our Muslim hating conspiracy?

As a matter of fact, since you post here, are you?

Are you capable of understanding, let alone answering this?

What the fuck is VR going on about now?
As far as I understand what he is saying……….nope, pure drivel. My, his “reason” unraveled quicky.
I suggest, he go away, finish the essay that is due in next week, have a good sleep and just to regain some composure. And, avoid the student bar.

VoR when you say ‘bigits’ do you mean ‘bigots’ or ‘bigtits’. Clarify.

To claim that Qaradawi and those of his ilk spout this sort of anti-Semitic hatred because of their concern for the plight of the Palestinian people is just utter drivel. This sort of rhetoric has been around for years and years. The fact that the west has only just woken up to it does not mean it is new.
The fact that for years the Palestinian plight was of little interest to the majority of the arab world (and to some extent still is) is also of significance. It shows precisely that the linking of extremism to the Palestinian cause is no more than an excuse for some rather unsubtle arm-twisting.
I would love to hear VoR’s take on the fact that despite the West bank having been under Jordanian control from 1948 until 1967, no attempt was made to establish a Palestinian state there. Same goes for Egypt and Gaza.

“bigits”! what’s a “bigit”? Is it what the young people say nowadays for people who explain to them why they are wrong about so many things?

“Fatah publishes names of 181 claimed killed, shot or maimed by de facto government forces in Gaza”

http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=35455

No wait. Apparently, to ask Qawari not to be antisemitic is like asking Black Americans not to seek justice against Whites in the 1950’s and 1960’s, or Jews not to seek justice against, erm, nazis? (one wonders what he thinks about the Eichman trial?; actually, no it doesn’t).
“It’s like, you know, all the the fucking same. I’m opposed to all racism (but, heck, not that bothered about antisemitism, cos like you know, Isrealis, no Jews, no Israelis, oh, they’re all the fucking same Jews are like, the fucking oppressors; they’re like the KKK and like the fucking guards as Auschwitz”)

And, there speaks the “Voice of Reason”.

VR’s points are indeed superfluous. At last he’s right about one thing.

As Ignorance is Bliss has just noted, something gradually happened to VoR. He started off quite well with his ‘Ken’ interview, and has simply imploded.

Most unfortunate, I thought at first we had the youthful energy of Callum, mixed with the spikey wit of Sonic. An admirable new foe. Instead we got what appears to be a pissed up 15 year old who hates Jewish people and thinks Harry’s Place is a person. Or the LVF.

Oh well.

The Voice of Reason:

That’s grown-up politics – you sometimes have to work with some pretty dodgy people, or put feelers out, if the alternative is even more dodgy. The Left used to understand this and realised that in momentous times, such as WW2 when Britain faced an existential threat – as in many ways it might today – the realistic choice wasn’t between pure democracy versus totalitarianism, but siding with Stalin against the worse and more immediate horrors of Nazism.

Just to note that this is not history. It’s made up stuff about a “choice” made only in hindsight.

Stalin made his choice and chose the Nazis. It was only when Germany launched a “race war” against the USSR that necessity became the mother of invention of his later alliance with the West.

Before that alliance, the “left” spent much energy in arguing that Britain must not become involved in war against the USSR, back then, a German ally. The British “left” never made much of a choice at all on this question.

From a Jan 1940 pamphlet:

“It is thus quite within our powers to prevent this war being spread, or switched, to the USSR. A comparatively modest proportion of the men in the street can do it, if they wish. And surely they must wish to stop it … they do not need to be left wing or right wing; they do not need even to want to avoid the deaths of millions of Soviet citizens; it is enough if they want to avoid the deaths of millions of their own fellow countrymen, who will surely die, and die to no purpose, if our ruling class is allowed to fight the new Socialist state in the effort to maintain their own system.”

Grown-up politics, eh?

The voice of Un-Reason goes is shrill, shrill, shrill…

He can’t win an argument so he escalates and lies about what is being said to him:

“Yes, let’s deport all the Muslims. That will solve the problem, once and for all. A Final Solution. Genius!”

This from the moron who supports the extermination of all Jews by his Nazi Sheik. Like all Jew haters he attributes to others what he wants to do to the Jews.

And like all bigots once he discovers that his comments won’t fly he takes off:

“I think at this point further posting by me is superfluous as the bigits here are digging their own graves with turbocharged JCBs.

What a coward he is. Typical!

Good news – or not so bad news…

From Jihad Watch/Melanie Phillips:

The House of Lords recovers its spine.

Wilders had been invited to screen Fitna before the House of Lords, but was then disinvited. In “The intimidation of the House of Lords,” February 3, the incomparable Melanie Phillips (thanks to Pamela, who has more on Lord Ahmed) explains why, and what happened next:

But various representatives of the British Muslim community protested; and Lord Ahmed issued a threat that he would personally mobilise 10,000 Muslims to prevent Wilders from entering the Upper House and would take the peer organising the event to court. In the face of such threats, the meeting was cancelled.

Lord Ahmed then boasted of his victory in the Pakistani media. The Associated Press of Pakistan reported him exulting in

a victory for the Muslim community.

It was of course a major defeat for Parliament’s sovereign right and duty to protect free speech, the right to issue an invitation to a democratically elected member of a European parliament, and the right of British citizens to live without intimidation. It was an appalling development.

Now, however, it is fighting back. Wilders has been re-invited to speak and screen his film in the Lords later this month. Parliament now has a second chance to show that jihadi thuggery will not be allowed to prevail within the cradle of democracy. But if it is really to demonstrate this, it should also surely take action against Lord Ahmed, who abused his position as a peer of the realm to threaten mass intimidation of the House in which he sits. If it fails to do so, it will be another notch on the ratchet of Britain’s slide into submission.

***

This is a very important recovery by the Lords. We have seen Muslim intimidation or pressure win time and time again: over school uniforms, Saturday schooling (no go zone for education inspectors), Rushdie, viligante patrols, mob violence around Mosques, religious rights at work, extension of Shariah law etc etc. We have had to put up with a veritable plate of lies about Islam being served up to us by the main TV channels on programmes like Shariah TV, Karen Armstrong propaganda and in our schools, whilst wide variety of books telling the truth about Islam are banned from our public libraries and bookshops.

Await the storm of protest about this showing.

For Homercles and any other readers who may still doubt Qaradawi’s status, here’s confirmation:

“it is inaccurate for the Policy Group to question his status as a leading Islamic scholar. While we may disagree with some of his views, Yusuf al-Qaradawi is considered a leading scholar by many Muslims, including other Muslim scholars.”

This quote is from the rather worrying response of the Conservative Party’s Muslim Forum to the extensive criticism of Qaradawi in Dame Pauline-Neville Jones’ report An Unquiet World, which highlighted the links between the cleric and Britain’s Islamist organisations.

Ignorance Is Bliss:

“My comments refer to Think of England, but on reflection they refer also to the antisemitism of Qaradawi. In linking his own antisemitic fantasies with the reality of the Holocaust, he wanks off imagining that he will have a part in the (next) massacre of Jews…”

OK, I have to step in here. Qaradawi is unquestionably a genocidal anti-Semite and religious supremacist whose views provide inspiration for Islamists worldwide. However, his sins do not extend to masturbation. Indeed, his IslamOnline website obsessively warns of its dangers, and posts regular reminders of the fatwa against it.

Indeed, it offers a list of helpful hints on how to avoid masturbation, including:

“Interacting with activities of the society in such a way that it keeps you away from thinking about sex” (attending pro-Hamas rallies, perhaps, or attacking “Jewish” businesses)

“Avoiding gatherings and places that bring men and women physically close to each other” (be extra careful on those pro-Hamas rallies!)

“Trying to admire natural things such as flowers and beautiful scenery, which do not stimulate one sexually, instead of admiring girls and women” (Kew should be put on red alert for blue-balled jihadis with pained expressions on their faces)

I was prompted by this article to ask why there seems to be so much hatred for Jews amongst certain parts of the Muslim community and leader/preacher hierarchy.

Because it’s in the Quran and Sunnah. Consider, for example, Ibn Kathir’s tafsir of Verse 7 of Sura Al-Fatihah (which has a status in Islam roughly analogous to that of the Lord’s Prayer in Christianity). Thus, five times every day, the observant Muslim invokes Allah’s help to ward off the targets of Allah’s anger and those who have strayed. And Ibn Kathir explains: “both the Christians and the Jews have earned the anger and are led astray, but the anger is one of the attributes more particular of the Jews.”

[Khaibar denouement:] I deduce from this that the story is unlikely that someone dies from a poison three years after ingesting it and conclude the story was made up to demonise Jews. So, even in 632 AD they were at it. Incredible

Khaibar was Round 4 in Muhammad’s engagement with the Jews. Before that, there was the settling of accounts with Banu Qaynuqa after Badr, with Banu Nadir after Uhud, and, most spectacularly, with the Banu Qurayza after the Trench.

Hatred for Jews is part of Islam itself. Why is there so much resistance among non-Muslims to this elementary fact?

Await the storm of protest about this showing.

I await the protest of the 10,000 with much glee because we have to show that Parliament won’t be intimidated. I seem to remember that Lord Ahmed invited a Holocaust denier to the Lords. This film by Wilders is based on fact, not fiction.

Gene wrote, “All comments of the “Almost all Muslims are fanatic Jew haters” variety will be deleted.”.

Er, though I myself would never contemplate making such a statement without numeric backup, aren’t you circumventing the question – what percentage of Muslims are or are not fanatic Jew haters? Has there been any research on the question?

In other words, is the statement mostly true, or wildly exaggerated? It seems to me deletion is warranted only in the latter case.

Maybe I err. Is truth not a defence against any legal challenges?

Hatred for Jews is part of Islam itself. Why is there so much resistance among non-Muslims to this elementary fact?

I believe that you are correct. I believe that in some Arab/Muslim societies this hatred is almost institutional and endemic.

Not all Muslims hate Jews. Some Muslims are able to reject the Jew hatred in the Koran and Hadiths.

I believe that to not follow or reject any part of the Koran is an act of apostacy.

Remember, of course, that, as today, many on the left and right, prior to 1945, thought of the pinning back of “the Jews’ power” was an entirely legitimate political viewpoint

Well, they might think so, with or without genocide: but don’t you agree that they’d be wrong and that it’s an illegitimate and racist endeavour?

NotBenjamin -
absolutely brilliant!!!!

His anti-Semitism, which I am not denying, is the (unfortunately) religious and irrational form taken of his entirely justified outrage and horror at the barbaric Israeli treatment of the Palestinians

Amazing. Such a long sentence, and every part of it a complete lie.

Bishop Wagner (RC) claims that God punished the people of New Orleans, USA, because New Orleans is living in “sin”.
Why do men, for its invariably men, who falsley claim to know the mind of the Creator of the Universe, get appointed to these top jobs? That’s the BIG question here.

Just a little aside on the subject of the poisoning discussed above:
one of the longer range missiles used by Hizbollah in 2006 to attack Israeli towns was rather catchily named ‘Khaibar’ and we even got a TV address from Nasrallah explaining the significance of the name whilst they were being fired. Nice to know that he’s concerned about one’s general knowledge.

Thanks, Field.
Let’s see whether this country still has any semblance of backbone.
The vile Ahmed should be tried for treason, having threatened violence against Parliament – which he had sworn to uphold.

Not all Muslims hate Jews. Some Muslims are able to reject the Jew hatred in the Koran and Hadiths. I believe that to not follow or reject any part of the Koran is an act of apostacy.

Yes, but ignorance of scripture is not. Which is why many Muslims are quite unaware that it is Islamically Correct to hate Jews.

The Sam Harris quote posted by Nick (ex S.A.) at 8:33 PM should be read several times by all here.

I’m sick to death of people like Gene pretending this violence and hatred concerns only a tiny minority.

I would also like to point to the disturbing new trend of Muslim-only communities that are now beginning to spring up in Asutralia, the U.S. and Canada. These are band new suburbs centered around a mosque and madrassa where it’s just all Islam all the time, and where interaction with Kuffurs is limited to a strick minimum. I’ve just learned that a group of Ontario Muslims are now building one just north of Toronto.

The progress of multiculturalism.

If these no-go areas, which most STILL DENY even exist, are being set up with the enthusiastic cooperation of city and municipal gov’ts…they DO need building permist…, then what are we going to do?

It’s just amazing that anti-fascist campaigners still spend ALLtheir time scouring the horizon for 18 year old white racist, skinheads.

Perhaps it’s time they turned their gaze towards mainstream politicians, of whom many now appear to be actively promoting islamofascism.

And why allow immigrants into the country who’ve absolutely no intention of integration, interacting or contributing in any meaningful to the larger society and its culture?

WHAT. IS. THE. POINT?

the hard thing I know help one waste the next.

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