Harry's Place

The Hebrew response to this is:
BOKER TOV ELIYAHU.
In free translation:
Have you only just woken up to smell the coffee?

Hamas? Here? In a UNWRA aid distribution station? With our reputation?

What were they thinking of?

UNWRA is probably reacting to pressure because its customary reaction is to cover for any Palestinian transgressions of behavioural norms.

Only useful idiots & terrorist supporters give to Palestinian charities.

If there was any genuine suffering there, I’m sure that those generous Saudis & Iranians, etc would be bailing them out with our money with which we appease them for the oil which happens to be under their territories.

Martin

This is outrageous – they’re behaving like terrorists!

The BBC is vindicated

UNWRA, UNRWA, which is it?

“This is outrageous – they’re behaving like terrorists!”

haha!

According to the BBC, Hamas has accused the UN of giving aid to local groups with ties to its opponents!

And we all thought that aid was meant for innocent civillians caught up in the fighting, or at least, Tony Benn claimed on his ad-libbed promo for aid on BBC News in which he said that Hamas was entitled to distribute the aid as the democratically elected government. Oh well.

I wonder what Mr Benn thinks about Hamas being so open about wanting to deny aid to the people of Gaza who don’t support them.

I await with bated breath for the comments from the ‘Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza and they were elected because of the super social work they do there’ brigade.

Nice but belated.

All the UN aid organisations are fundamentally anti Israel.

This sudden truthfulness on their part doesn’t change anything.

I was horrified to see the UN spokesman in Jerusalem gleefully accusing Israel of firing on a UN school and killing more that 40 people taking refuge their compound. Hertzog denied the charge, gave the names of the two ‘freedom fighters’ who were killed in the Israeli response and the UN rep with a smirk on his face, renewed his charges. He must have known at that point that the Israeli response was outside the walls of the UN school but he still made them.

I look forward to the democratic nations leaving the UN and forming their own group.

The UN sickens me.

Incidently, could this possibly be the same Ahmed al Kurd (owner of 5 aliases) who is mentioned by the U.S. treasury in connection with the Holyland Foundation trial?

This appears to be just what Hamas says it is: a dispute with one relief agency that will quickly be resolved.

Despite HP’s usual demonization of Hamas — not to mention the UN — other aid agencies are distributing relief supplies without any interference or problems: see here, for example. Other agencies with direct access and no complaints of government interference include the ICRC, Oxfam, Mercy Corps and many others.

In fact, the only government interference for the purposes of political manipulation that has been confirmed is the deliberate holding up of aid that Israel has repeatedly imposed on the agencies, with the intent of making sure the humanitarian crisis in Gaza claims as many innocent victims as possible. Incidentally, the power of Israel to blockade Gaza in this way is clear proof that Israel is still the occupying power in the territory.

with the intent of making sure the humanitarian crisis in Gaza claims as many innocent victims as possible

You are a deranged antisemite.

In fact, the only government interference for the purposes of political manipulation that has been confirmed…blah

Let’s not forget the 14 trucks worth of aid which were stolen by Hamas from the Palestinian Red Crescent last year.

What other reason could there be for delaying the provision of food and fuel supplies to a war-shattered people, other than to prolong their agony?

Anyway, I am not going to debate with you, “Nearly Oxfordian”, proud as you are of your role as the biggest turd in the toilet bowl.

UNWRA has about 30,500 workers worldwide to assist refugees..

Of those 30.500 aid workers, about 24,000 are employed to look after Palestinian ‘refugees’

That leaves only 6,500 for all other refugess world-wide.

If Hamas is now stealing aid from UNWRA in order to starve the families of its opponents, then I’ve hardly much sympathy, seeings how they’ve catered and coddled Palestinians for years now.

Imagine 24,000 workers to feed and clothe these violent 3rd generation ‘refugees’, and only 6,500 workers for all of the rest of the fucking world.

If the Palestinians get 24,000 aid workers, then Darfurians should be getting about 240,000 of them.

“What other reason could there be for delaying the provision of food and fuel supplies to a war-shattered people, other than to prolong their agony?”

Er.

That they are not supporters of Hamas?

That’s Al Kurd’s explanation.

Now come on Voice of Reason. Your next step is to say

“Yes, but FATAH and all other political parties apart from HAMAS are ZIOCON STOOGES of the HOUSE NEGRO OBAMA!!!!!! Hamas is right to STARVE THEIR ENEMIES!!!!!”

It should be understood that 99% of UNRWA staff in Gaza are local Palestinians many of whom are members of Hamas. Hamas also controls the UNRWA unions.

Voice of Reason?, More like Voice of Fucking Bullshit.

Israelinurse (4:32 PM),

Mr al Kurd and his Al Salah Society are covered in this US Treasury press release. From the text:

“Hamas has used the Al-Salah Society, as it has many other charitable fronts, to finance its terrorist agenda,” said Adam Szubin, Director of Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). “Today’s action alerts the world to the true nature of Al-Salah and cuts it off from the U.S. financial system.”
…
The Al-Salah Society is directed by Ahmad Al-Kurd, a recognized high-ranking Hamas leader in Gaza. Al-Kurd’s affiliation with Hamas goes back over a decade. During the first Intifada, Al-Kurd served as a Hamas Shura Council member in Gaza. As of late 2003, Al-Kurd was allegedly the top Hamas leader in Deir Al-Balah, Gaza. Since mid-2005, he has served as the mayor of Deir Al-Balah, elected as a Hamas candidate.

The Al-Salah Society has employed a number of Hamas military wing members. In late 2002, an official of the Al-Salah Society in Gaza was the principal leader of a Hamas military wing structure in the Al-Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza. The founder and former director of the Al-Salah Society’s Al-Maghazi branch reportedly also operated as a member of the Hamas military wing structure in Al-Maghazi, participated in weapons deals, and served as a liaison to the rest of the Hamas structure in Al-Maghazi. At least four other Hamas military wing members in the Al-Maghazi refugee camp in Gaza were tied to the Al-Salah Society.

There is a UK angle here. As discussed at HP before, the Al Salah Society is an important partner in Gaza for the Ummah Welfare Trust, a British charity based in Bolton.

That charity should be investigated for potential violations of EU financial sanctions on Hamas. The rules are clear enough:

There is therefore a binding and directly applicable obligation in Community law to freeze all funds, other financial assets and economic resources of Hamas, and not to make any funds, other financial assets and economic resources available to Hamas.
…
The Bank of England, as agent for Her Majesty’s Treasury, has today directed financial institutions that any funds which they hold for or on behalf of Hamas must not be made available to any person, except under the authority of a licence granted by the Treasury. As a result, it is a criminal offence to make funds available to Hamas (contrary to Article 4(9) of the Terrorism (United Nations Measures) Order 2001).

Fortunately, risk managers at certain UK banks take these rules very seriously, unlike the hapless Charity Commission, which is probably the weakest link in the UK counterterrorist chain.

The Palestinians also recieve more international aid per capita than any other people in the world.

They should all be living in suburban villas now with their children’s college degrees hanging on the walls.

UNWRA has about 30,500 workers worldwide to assist refugees… Of those 30.500 aid workers, about 24,000 are employed to look after Palestinian ‘refugees’. That leaves only 6,500 for all other refugess world-wide.

Well, there’s such informed comment on HP!

John P. obviously doesn’t know that UNRWA’s remit is solely dedicated to Palestinian refugees. A clue may be in the full name of the organisation: “United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East”. Refugees elsewhere in the world are helped by UNHCR.

I suggest John lifts a finger to conduct some basic research on a topic before posting anti-Palestinian and anti-UN nonsense about it.

Khalid the 13th Duke of Meshal is another idiot who can’t even read a post or follow a thread. The delays have been imposed by Israel as aid waits to cross the border. Hamas generally has not delayed the provision of aid to Palestinians. Israel delayed the aid to make sure ordinary Palestinians suffered as much as possible.

It should be understood that 99% of UNRWA staff in Gaza are local Palestinians many of whom are members of Hamas. Hamas also controls the UNRWA unions.

Any proof of this, Steve M? You’ll forgive me if I remain sceptical about the claims being made on HP, given the routinely ludicrous nature they turn out to have after the most cursory investigation.

John P.

Your UNRWA stats don’t quite do the situation justice. I believe that of those 24,000 aid workers who are paid to assist Palestinian refugees, over 90% are Palestinians.

Then there’s also tenure. For the rest of the world’s refugee populations’ purposes, they cease being refugees upon being resettled — typically in two years time from displacement. Compare that to the 3rd (and probably now 4th) generation Palestinian refugee claimants.

As it happens, one of my dearest friends is an English Quaker who served as a nurse in Lebanon under the Friends and also worked for Henry Cabot Lodge, the US consul in the 1950s. She visited Gaza and other parts of Palestine after the ‘48 armistice and even married a Maronite who was born in Haifa, but whose family fled the fighting, and she has nothing but contempt for this BS.

http://www.unhcr.org/basics.html

“Today, a staff of around 6,300 people in more than 110 countries continues to help 32.9 million persons”

Would you look at that

“Incidentally, the power of Israel to blockade Gaza in this way is clear proof that Israel is still the occupying power in the territory.”

So Egypt, which controls Gaza’s southern border and has been blockading Gaza along with Israel since the Hamas coup of June 2007, is also the occupying power?

Then there’s also tenure. For the rest of the world’s refugee populations’ purposes, they cease being refugees upon being resettled — typically in two years time from displacement. Compare that to the 3rd (and probably now 4th) generation Palestinian refugee claimants.

That makes the disparity worse, not better. No other group of people – NO OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE, EVER – has clung so pathologically to a (much of it bogus) refugee status.

“Any proof of this, Steve M? You’ll forgive me if I remain sceptical about the claims being made on HP, given the routinely ludicrous nature they turn out to have after the most cursory investigation.” – Voice of Reason

This is from UNRWA’a own web site:

UNRWA employs some 24,324 staff, of whom more than 99 per cent are locally-recruited Palestinians, almost all of them Palestine refugees.

http://www.un.org/unrwa/organization/staff.html

The following has been widely quoted:

“In the UNRWA union elections, held on June 14, 2006, Hamas won an exceptional victory, taking all 11 seats allotted to represent UNRWA teachers, all nine seats allotted for the service sector (doctors, nurses, pharmacists and engineers), and three of the seven seats allotted to other workers.”

According to my research so far, this remark is attributable to Jonathan Halevi, a former IDF intelligence officer, you may make of this what you wish.

As an aside but on this subject, I would further suggest that as long as Gaza Palestinians are kept dependent on UNRWA welfare (55% of which is provided by the EU), the chances for economic rejuvenation in the region will remain remote.

Steve M, it’s not unusual for union elections to be won by activists from political groups — the middle tiers of officials in the British trade union movement are often staffed by Trotskyists, while the leaders have often been members of the Communist Party. That doesn’t imply that that the rank and file are Trotskyists or Communists.

Given the subject of this post, it’s clear that UNRWA and Hamas are independent entities and indeed occasionally find themselves in conflict, so I really don’t understand what kind of pont you are trying to make, unless it’s that you simply enjoy injecting IDF black propaganda into these threads.

Also given the subject of this post, in particular the claim that “Hamas also nicks as much overseas aid as it can get its hands on …”, perhaps David Toube could provide some evidence to back up his allegations — especially as no other aid agency seems to have any complaints against Hamas.

But once again, perhaps there is really no intention to debate these issues honestly, and HP is just a pro-Zionist smear machine run by liars and dedicated to the fabrication of malicious slanders against a long-suffering people?

I would further suggest that as long as Gaza Palestinians are kept dependent on UNRWA welfare (55% of which is provided by the EU), the chances for economic rejuvenation in the region will remain remote.

Oh, you twit. Palestinians will continue to be dependent on UNRWA while Israel denies them their right to return to their homes and lands, and its military inflicts grotequely barbaric assaults on them.

Steve,
True.
Do you believe that Hamas is even remotely interested in economic rejuvenation in Gaza?

Not remotely.

In the UNRWA union elections, held on June 14, 2006, Hamas won an exceptional victory …

Setting aside my doubts about the reliability of information originating with the black propaganda arm of the Zionist war machine, I would just point out that it’s hardly unusual for political activists to win union elections, and doing so does not imply in any way that the rank-and-file share their political affliations.

For example, the leadership of many British trade unions was drawn from the Communist Party, while the likes of the SWP and Militant have often won election to the middle tier of union offices.

So Steve M’s point is quite tenuous, especially given that as the subject of this post makes clear, Hamas and UNRWA are independent organizations which occasionally find themselves in conflict. He does seem to be wilfully missing the whole point, in fact.

While mentioning the subject of the post, perhaps David Toube could grace us with his presence and post some supporting evidence for his claim that ” Hamas also nicks as much overseas aid as it can get its hands on”, because no other aid agencies are reporting any problems. In the absence of this, it will be difficult to see Toube as anything other than a calculating liar for Zionism and HP as nothing more than a smear site dedicated to Sturmer-like attacks on an already grotequely oppressed people.

Incidentally, I think Israel’s constant blockade of Gaza and its periodic launching of military assaults on the territory is considerably more responsible for the lack of economic development there than anything UNRWA might get up to. While Palestinians are denied the right to return to their homes and lands, they are quite likely to remain dependent on UNRWA (and no doubt continue to earn the scorn of rabid bigots like Steve M and N.O.)

Thank you for the detailed and informative post, Habibi.

VOR – your disgustingly libellous assertion that Israel is deliberately engineering the deaths of Palestinians by delaying aid contradicts all the facts and evidence.
I see you have resorted to the old Middle Eastern tactic of telling a lie repeatedly with the intention of turning it into a fact. See the case of Jenin.

VoR, don’t you get it? Even UNRWA is complaining about Hamas’s aid thefts. UNRWA!

Gene, I would love to reply to yours and other points, but I have done so twice in the last 90 minutes and it appears I have been banned from HP, because my posts no longer appear.

“Liberty, if it means anything, blah blah.”

Its being reported on the BBC website here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7869704.stm

Perhaps the beeb should run with it as their lead story for 3 days as they did with their decision not to show an advert to raise money for Hamas, sorry, of course…the people of Gaza.

You know, its getting so easy to pick apart the outrage directed at Israel over the last month its getting almost boring.

The whole Sri Lanka thing has come at a bad time for the humanitarians of the world. Some are trying to pretend they are just as angry about civilian deaths in Sri Lanka…most just can’t even be arsed with the pretence any more.

Voice of Reason, i have no idea whether or not you are banned, but in truth your posts that have been allowed are pretty lame. If you are embarassed that Hamas are a bunch of murdering thugs who care little for the people of Gaza, take it to Hamas.

Don’t shoot the messenger Dear Boy/Girl.

mattG

“it appears I have been banned from HP, because my posts no longer appear.”

If you were banned, how would you be able to post that you were banned?

Your posts, along with some others were caught in the spam filter. They have now been ‘liberated’.

If you were banned, how would you be able to post that you were banned?

Because I used a different IP address, typically the criterion used to determine whether someone banned is posting, for the subsequent complaint that I had been banned. Doh.

Your posts, along with some others were caught in the spam filter. They have now been ‘liberated’.

Sorry, I don’t believe you. How was it determined that my post of 8:23pm might be “spam”? It contains no hyperlinks. Furthermore, if it and the repost were placed in a moderation queue, why was no message shown to me to indicate that?

(I concede that, as appearance seem to confirm, your blogging software is an utter piece of crap and may not display a message indicating moderation … get a clue and fix it, if that is the case)

MattG – try addressing the points I’ve raised, and thereby elevate yourself above the other rodents inhabiting this thread, who appear incapable of doing so.

VOR, I’ve never been called a rabid bigot before but judging by your posts I will take it as a badge of honour. Do you ever listen to yourself?

Why is Voice of Reason such a jerk?

Poor love, doesn’t even know the meaning of his own “name”.

“Reason” as most people know is a critical faculty that thrives on reflection and knows when at times to be silent. “Fascism”, on the other hand, reduces thought to shouted slogans, and complexity to simple formulations; a point encapsulated in his use of the slogan. “Zionist War Machine”? It is pure meaningless nonsense. It refers to nothing other than his own ideological shortcomings and fevered imagination.

I bet some people think he is, “like fucking serious” when it comes to politics. As for me, I find him rather amusing.

Steve M.
Yeserday, VR labelled those who actually objected to Qaradawi’s wank-fantasy of taking part in a Second Holocaust, bigits [sic] – apparently without irony. So, I am afraid it’s not that great an honour. It appears to be his, “dear reader, I married him” clincher. In fact, it has all the originality of “I woke up and it was all a dream”, as most 7 year olds write.

Damn, I thought I was special.

While Palestinians are denied the right to return to their homes and lands

Surely a more accurate moniker for this foaming at the mouth and prevaricating antizionist would be Voice of the One Islamic State Solution.

And once again my posts are not appearing, without any explanation why.

Just my posts, note.

Whereas the post above, from a different IP and with a slightly different name, appears straight away.

How … mysterious.

Simply Jews has news on Hamas

http://simplyjews.blogspot.com/2009/02/hamas-officials-signal-willingness-to.html

Palestinians will continue to be dependent on UNRWA while Israel denies them their right to return to their homes and lands

To settle a bet: do you think that the hundreds of thousands of Jews kicked out of Arab countries should be compensated to the tune of several billions of pounds for their stolen property?

and no doubt continue to earn the scorn of rabid bigots like Steve M and N.O.

I am proud to be cited along with Steve M – and doubly proud to be called a ‘rabid bigot’ by a poster of antisemitic lies about Israel, e.g. the one where Israel deliberately aimed to increase the number of civilian deaths.

I see you have resorted to the old Middle Eastern tactic of telling a lie repeatedly with the intention of turning it into a fact

I thought this tactic was perfected by Goebbels. Of course, he’s always had willing pupils in the shape of antisemites of all backgrounds, both Middle Eastern ones and others. HP features several of them quite regularly.

Damn, I thought I was special.

Oops … damn, so did I. One more illusion shattered.

And once again my posts are not appearing, without any explanation why

It’s the Jewish conspiracy, stupid.

And still no sign of my comment.

So this is how HP posters “win” their arguments … by calling opposing views anti-Semitic, refusing to debate their points, and disappearing their posts.

How proud you must all be.

N O, “Jewish Conspiracy” is so 2008. It’s “Jewish black conspiracy” now.

Slight Correction Modernity: Simply Jews has news on the credulity of Hamas mouthpieces Ghazi Hamad and Mushir al-Masri.

VoR = Bungle? Just wondering.

I am intent on putting “TONGUE IN CHEEK” next time I post from Simply Jews, but I would have thought that was obvious? as they say:

“Our eagerness to hear what we’d like to hear and our ability to grasp every, even so slight nuance in the Hamasspeak, Jihadprattle or Al Qaedatalk and turn it from inside out to look for a deeper peaceful meaning is staggering sometimes.”

VR complains that,
“by calling opposing views anti-Semitic, refusing to debate their points”

Let’s take his absurd defence and justification of Qaradawi call for genocide yesterday.

I myself showed in point form (1-5 if I recalled) why you were wrong (I debated your point; he called me a “moron” and a bigit”). In so doing, I illustrated how his view chimes with, has much in common with, replicates antisemitic arguments. Others likewise indicated just how mistaken his “argument” was.

That he now comments that “calling opposing views anti-Semitic, refusing to debate their points” is not that surprising. It is entirely in keeping with his prior repetition of slogans that are now common amongst the unthinking.

I find it difficult to believe Arabs would do anything illegal with overseas aid. Lets join the BBC plan for rebuilding Gaza for the next round.

Yes, sorry, Steve, and thanks for the heads-up! I’ll try to be more careful next time!

V o R – ” Black propoganda of the Zionist War Machine”
Eh?!!!
Which Austin Powers movie did you say you were in?

Israelinurse: VoR was in all the Austin Powers movies. He was Dr. Evil’s stunt double.

Nah, not enough flexibility. But he may have been the back-up production runner.

Expected response from the usual suspects over at Leninology, indymedia et al, based on previous statements:

UNWRA am ZIONISTS thy are all run by ZIONISTS and the ZIONIST LOBBY as for PALESTINE everyne who doesnt support TEH R3sistANCe am a ZIONIST I’ve ZIONISTED you you ZIONIST!

Actual response:

deafening silence

Voice of Reason

I ahve had similar experiences with my posts disappearing into some sort of moderation queue, often never to be seen again. It usually happens when the HP bloggers are losing an arguement.

One time, during a debate with Brett, one of my published posts was accessed and altered by someone who possessed the HP access code.