A Letter to York University, Ontario
Dr. Mamdouh Shoukri
President and Vice Chancellor, York University,
4700 Keele Street,
Toronto, Ontario M3J 1P3
Wednesday, February 25, 2009.
Dear Dr. Shoukri,
I am Professor of Computational Linguistics at King’s College, London, and I am currently a visiting professor in the Department of Computer Science
at the University of Toronto, where I am on sabbatical for the semester. I was recently invited to give a talk on my research on computational modeling of grammar induction in the Colloquium of the Cognitive Science Program of the Philosophy Department at York, on March 25. I accepted the invitation with great pleasure. I received my BA in Philosophy from York in May 1970, and I welcomed this opportunity to return to my first academic home. It is therefore with considerable regret that I must now withdraw from this engagement in light of the York administration’s handling of the attack on Jewish students that took place on the afternoon of February 11.
The reports of this attack that I have read in both the Canadian and the foreign press (confirmed by eyewitness accounts that I have received) converge on a disturbing sequence of events. A group of approximately 100 students supporting the York Student Federation broke up a press conference organized by other students campaigning to impeach the YSF. This group then pursued approximately 40 of the students from the press conference, most of them Jewish, to the offices of the campus Hillel, where the latter locked themselves in for fear of physical assault. The YSF supporters banged on the door and the windows of the offices, shouting threatening comments at the students trapped inside.
The students in the Hillel headquarters appealed to campus security for assistance but received none. They then called the Toronto Police, who
eventually arrived to escort them out of the offices, through lines of hostile YSF supporters chanting angry slogans and hurling insults at them.
To date I have seen no public statement by any University official on this
incident, beyond the expressionon of an intention to investigate it. I called
your office on Monday, February 23 to seek clarification of the administration’s view of the attack. A member of your staff called me back today and graciously listened to my concerns. However, she was unable to do more than reiterate the University’s official position that the matter is still under investigation. Given that the incident took place two weeks ago, I find it odd that the administration has been unable to come to any conclusions on what took place. It is particularly remarkable that it felt no need to release at least a general statement specifying that violence and abuse of any kind will not be tolerated on campus, and confirming that all students have the right to express their views without fear of intimidation.
The fact that the University has not taken up this assault with the students
who launched it, nor acted to reassure the students who they targeted indicates a severe failure on the part of the administration to fulfill its reponsibility to sustain a campus free of physical violence and harrassment. Several of the Jewish students at York claim that the assault was not an aberration, but part of a general atmosphere of extreme hostility that they have been forced to contend with over an extended period of time. I am in no position to evaluate this assertion. But it seems to me that the administration is obliged to address the grievances of students who feel that they are being victimized, particularly in light of a significant incident which lends some credence to their charge.
I do not regard the ethnic identities or the political views of any of the
participants in this event as of relevant concern. All sides to a controversial question have an equal right to be heard in a civil environment of tolerance and mutual respect. Nor do I see criticism of Israel as the problem here. I have frequently spoken out publicly against the policies of the Israeli government, most recently in a joint letter and comments critical of Israel’s operation in Gaza, published in the Observer in January.
If one group of students is permitted to engage in violent harrassment
of another without the decisive intervention of the University’s administration, then the conditions for a free and unfettered exchange of ideas are completely undermined, and the primary purpose of university life is betrayed.
When I was an undergraduate at York in the late 1960s the University was home to lively political activity on a variety of issues. The Israeli-Palestininan conflict was one of these, and discussion was intense, occasionally heated. However, at no time did this discussion degenerate into systematic bullying, initimidation, or expressions of bigotry. Nor would the administration of that period have allowed it to do so. It is a source of great sadness to me that the current administration is either incapable or unwilling to insure the existence of a basic culture of decency, civility, and free speech on its campus.
This culture is a necessary feature of any serious institution of higher
learning.
Sincerely,
Shalom Lappin
Professor of Computational Linguistics
King’s College, London
Comments
| 26 February 2009, 2:33 pm |
Somr discussion:
| 26 February 2009, 2:51 pm |
I have frequently spoken out publicly against the policies of the Israeli government, most recently in a joint letter and comments critical of Israel’s operation in Gaza, published in the Observer in January
Is Lappin yet another pompous jerk who thinks that being a professor of computing gives him some special insight into ME geopolitics?
| 26 February 2009, 2:57 pm |
Nearly:
to the best of my knowledge, and absent seeing the letter in the Observer, Lappin is far from a pompous jerk.
Check the archives at Engage. http://www.engageonline.org.uk/blog/index2.php
| 26 February 2009, 3:02 pm |
To Shalom Lappin:
Well done
| 26 February 2009, 3:08 pm |
I’m more curious about Lappin’s letter and comments in the Observer that he refers to. Anyone have a link?
| 26 February 2009, 3:10 pm |
Sorry. Just saw the link in his letter.
| 26 February 2009, 3:26 pm |
What a mess is Canada. Thanks to the long domination of the liberal left there, journalists are hauled up before kangaroo courts for accurately quoting European Muslims, the indigenous live in squalid zoo-like reservations sniffing petrol, and now we see near-pogroms on university campuses organized by executive officers of student unions. Recently the American Political Science Association announced it was reconsidering Toronto as a venue for its annual conference because of the threat to academic freedom in the country. And of course all this exists side-by-side with the notorious and insufferable conceit of Canadian mainstream opinion which regards itself as probably the most enlightened country in the world.
It’s important to realise that the ugly turn Canada has taken is entirely a consequence of the influence of the “soft” left-wing politics similar to the kind that HP espouses, and not the work of a handful of extremists preying on an otherwise healthy body-politic. If you want to fight fascism, fight the liberal left, which by undermining traditional values facilitates the extremists. If you want a society fit for human beings where Jews and other minorities of ethnicity or intellectual viewpoint are safe, promote conservatism.
| 26 February 2009, 3:29 pm |
Thanks, Lynne!
The following is worth a read:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1228728151848&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
| 26 February 2009, 3:42 pm |
Here’s a York U blogger; the link is to the page current when this incident occurred:
| 26 February 2009, 3:54 pm |
As I understand it, the YSF passed a resolution condemning Israel’s assault on Gaza, which some small sections of the student population have reacted to, not by passing a resolution in accordance with their views, but by trying to impeach the executive. This is tantamount to a coup against the democratic wishes of the student body so it is not surprising that tempers have flared and feelings are running high.
All reports indicate, including this one, that no violence actually took place, just name-calling and jeering. So it seems the whole affair is nothing more than a storm in a teacup and pretty run-of-the-mill for student politics. Shalom Lappin has a rather rosy recall of student politics in the past, especially in the 1960s, when campus occupations, destruction of offices, and clashes with riot police were commonplace in the days of militant opposition to the Vietnam War.
Sadly, the plain facts of the matter will not prevent Zionists from spinning the incident into another Kristalnacht. Given the catastrophic fall in support for Israel in Western societies since Zionism degenerated to being nothing more than an endless military assault, the supporters of Israel have no weapon left other than inventing pogroms and persecution to justify their crimes against humanity.
| 26 February 2009, 4:14 pm |
As I understand it, the YSF passed a resolution condemning Israel’s assault on Gaza, which some small sections of the student population have reacted to, not by passing a resolution in accordance with their views, but by trying to impeach the executive.
Please provide evidence that this is what happened. Because, every single other report I have read states that the call for impeachment was due to the YSF support for an ongoing strike by the university staff.
| 26 February 2009, 4:20 pm |
Good on Lappin. Voice, have you now moved onto belittling non Israeli Jews?
| 26 February 2009, 4:21 pm |
“inventing pogroms and persecution”
Being forced to call for police escort from a hostile crowd calling for you to be evicted from the campus is hardly “inventing”.
Presumably you would like to be treated this way.
Defending yourself against those who wish you dead is neither “endless military assault” nor “crimes against humanity.”
| 26 February 2009, 4:25 pm |
It’s important to realise that the ugly turn Canada has taken is entirely a consequence of the influence of the “soft” left-wing politics similar to the kind that HP espouses, and not the work of a handful of extremists preying on an otherwise healthy body-politic. If you want to fight fascism, fight the liberal left, which by undermining traditional values facilitates the extremists. If you want a society fit for human beings where Jews and other minorities of ethnicity or intellectual viewpoint are safe, promote conservatism.
You deserve 20$ for having written that!
Says it all, really.
I can remember Expo 67 and thought, as a nine year-old, that it represented the beginning of something grand and noble.
When I think back to it now, though, I can see it for what it was; the beginning of the end.
| 26 February 2009, 4:31 pm |
“Die, Jew, get the hell off campus.”
That sucks. Their apologists are shit.
| 26 February 2009, 4:39 pm |
…the indigenous live in squalid zoo-like reservations sniffing petrol…
Which may partially explain dumbass comments like these:
The trial was the second for David Ahenakew, 75, who told a local newspaper in the western province of Saskatchewan that Jews were a “disease” that Hitler was trying to “clean up” when he “fried six million of those guys”…that he believed Jews had caused World War II.
| 26 February 2009, 4:40 pm |
Shalom Lappin was my hero for the brilliant devastating evisceration he wrote of Jacqueline Rose’s book on Zion- it is on Engage, with her response, and then his even better rebuttal. Hence I felt a little disappointed when I saw he signed that Observer letter. But he is still pretty good.
| 26 February 2009, 4:41 pm |
Voice of Reason is a highly ironic name for some disgusting Jew-hater who represents nothing of the sort.
| 26 February 2009, 4:42 pm |
Voice has previously self-identified on this board as “Ashkenazim” (grammatically close but maybe no cigar), but taking that at face value I would strongly recommend that Voice read the JPost article of six weeks ago, “Does Jewish anti-Semitism exist?”, linked above by Nearly, and then reporting back here to us.
| 26 February 2009, 4:47 pm |
not by passing a resolution in accordance with their views, but by trying to impeach the executive. This is tantamount to a coup against the democratic wishes of the student body so it is not surprising that tempers have flared and feelings are running high.
Poor insanity thinks that the legal process of impeachment is a ‘coup’. No wonder he is so confused about everything.
| 26 February 2009, 4:49 pm |
HPH -
I can assure you that NO Jew would refer to him/herself as ‘ashkenazim’. Take it from Fabian and me ;-)
| 26 February 2009, 5:11 pm |
Lynne T.: the Muslim population of Toronto is growing and York University is heavily “infested”? Is that what Muslims are? An “infestation”?
| 26 February 2009, 5:15 pm |
Ami:
Did you actually see the content of the letter Shalom put his name to anywhere?
Unfortunately, the link provided to the Observer only takes you to a newspaper precis, not the letter. It’s clear, however, that the letter Shalom signed is not the notorious one signed by 300+ academics.
| 26 February 2009, 5:15 pm |
Shalom:
Couldn’t the letter have the same force that you intended without this paragraph: “I have frequently spoken out publicly against the policies of the Israeli government, most recently in a joint letter and comments critical of Israel’s operation in Gaza, published in the Observer in January.” ?
If the answer is no, then Israel-bashing has become necessary to protest against antisemitism, even among our friends.
I hope you see this criticism in the best of lights. My intention is not to cross you, but to point at a very disturbing phenomenon.
| 26 February 2009, 5:23 pm |
| 26 February 2009, 5:23 pm |
“Couldn’t the letter have the same force that you intended without this paragraph”
It would have been better without it, actually. Otherwise, it was perfect.
| 26 February 2009, 5:24 pm |
I mean, I supported 100% the Cast Lead operation, and I don’t consider myself a worse person than you Shalom.
But if I cannot protest against antisemitic fuckers without sending a letter to the Observer bashing my government first, then I am scared for the future of all the Jews in the world.
| 26 February 2009, 5:28 pm |
… every single other report I have read states that the call for impeachment was due to the YSF support for an ongoing strike by the university staff.
Will HP make up its mind? The press conference broken up was concerned with impeachment. So the subsequent hostility expressed towards those at the press conference had nothing to do with Israel/Palestine. You have to wonder, then, why HP is interested in it at all, given its obsession with all things Israel/Palestine. The obvious answer is that HP is mendaciously pretending these incidents are something to do with anti-Semitism when they are not. How surprising, a Zionist smear job appearing on HP, it’s just like totally unprecedented isn’t it?
| 26 February 2009, 5:35 pm |
Will HP make up its mind?
Poor insanity, still believing that HP is a particular person.
| 26 February 2009, 5:37 pm |
Absolutely, Fabian. I was just thinking of a way to express that.
| 26 February 2009, 6:02 pm |
Okay
For some time there was a particular idiot called Benjamin who used to come onto this blog obsessively every day and type effectively the same message in each thread every day.
He was very dull. He spent many hours telling everyone here how sad they were spending their time here when they were so wrong about everything but then…. he….spent all his time here.
He also said “storm in a teacup” a lot.
So it is with some alarm, while scrolling through the various off topic ‘trolling’ efforts of VoR that I noticed:
“So it seems the whole affair is nothing more than a storm in a teacup and pretty run-of-the-mill for student politics.”
It can’t be can it?!
MattG
| 26 February 2009, 6:09 pm |
VoR
You are spot on mate.
Im scouring the internet as I type, looking for the next anti-semitic attack I can blame on anti-semitism.
Pretty naughty aren’t I :-)
| 26 February 2009, 6:15 pm |
I think you are onto someting there, MattG.
| 26 February 2009, 6:23 pm |
The wider picture in Canada. The incident at York U. is hardly isolated.
http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/08/04/sparks-fly-between-jews-and-muslims-in-toronto/
| 26 February 2009, 6:44 pm |
But Benjamin didn’t really hate Jews, did he? ;-)
| 26 February 2009, 7:43 pm |
Voice of Inanity:
Did you read the account that Shalom Lappin linked to? It says that Hillel was only one of a number of student groups seeking to see YSF’s executive impeached. I live in Toronto and have not heard of similar attacks launched against any of the other pro-impeachment organizations.
Considering the nature of the taunts coming from the pro-YSF faction alone, I don’t think there’s any doubt but that an element of antisemetism, or antisemetism masked as “anti-zionism/pro-palestinianism” was involved. What isn’t clear is how the pro-YSFers came to be identified as “anti-Israel protesters”.
Jewish students at York University in Toronto were forced to take refuge in the Hillel office last Wednesday night as anti-Israel protesters banged on the glass doors, chanting, “Die, bitch, go back to Israel,” and “Die, Jew, get the hell off campus.”
The students had taken part in a press conference held to call for an impeachment of the student government at York, because of a long strike by teachers’ assistants.
Hillel at York partnered with other campus groups in a campaign called Drop YFS (York Federation of Students), aimed at impeaching the student government for its support of the 12-week strike at the university, which ended on February 2.
Daniel Ferman, president of Hillel at York, said that after the number of people attending the press conference exceeded 40, organizers barred additional students from entering, citing fire regulations.
Students outside the meeting room banged on the doors and chanted “Let the colored people in,” even though students from a variety of backgrounds were present, which led to the cancellation of the press conference, according to a first person account by student Orit Tepper.
In the hallway of the student center, students attempting to exit the meeting room were greeted with cries of “Zionism equals racism!” and “Racists off campus!”
| 26 February 2009, 7:53 pm |
Nearly:
Yes, he does, but in the lofty form, described by Paul Berman in the interview conducted by Michelle Seif:
Hatred for the Jews has generally taken the form of a lofty sentiment, instead of a lowly one – a noble feeling embraced by people who believe they stand for the highest and most admirable of moral views.
| 26 February 2009, 8:04 pm |
How interesting that people screamed at Jewish students they should “go back to Israel” yet also support the assertion that Jews don’t belong in Israel and should get out of Israel and/or succumb to death there without the ability to defend themselves.
Where have we heard this before?
Oy.
| 26 February 2009, 10:14 pm |
Sophia: I find it interesting, too, that anti-Zionists are alleged to have screamed “go back to Israel.” Makes me wonder if perhaps such allegations are a pack of lies, actually.
| 26 February 2009, 10:17 pm |
I hope that York openly calls for the expulsion of Jews and becomes the first Muslim only sharia compliant university in Canada. It would save us all the trouble of wondering when.
| 26 February 2009, 10:48 pm |
Lynne, I was being ironic.
For months, Benji claimed not to be an antisemite. The mask slipped – as I had said it would – during Cast Lead, when his hatred became almost tangible.
| 26 February 2009, 10:49 pm |
Will HP make up its mind? The press conference broken up was concerned with impeachment. So the subsequent hostility expressed towards those at the press conference had nothing to do with Israel/Palestine.
You’re not making sense. Are you confused or are you just trying to fuzz the issue? Your earlier comment was:
“As I understand it, the YSF passed a resolution condemning Israel’s assault on Gaza, which some small sections of the student population have reacted to, not by passing a resolution in accordance with their views, but by trying to impeach the executive.”
Now, I ask you again, do you have any evidence to back this up?
| 26 February 2009, 10:49 pm |
Tadhg Ó Muiris,
Are you calling her a liar? I heard such things myself.
Now apologise.
| 26 February 2009, 10:52 pm |
Makes me wonder if perhaps such allegations are a pack of lies, actually.
They were filmed shouting anti-semitic crap, actually.
| 26 February 2009, 11:19 pm |
They were filmed shouting anti-semitic crap, actually.
There’s nothing on YouTube I can find, which seems unusual. Do you have a link to the video, or the name and episode of the TV programme you saw?
| 26 February 2009, 11:34 pm |
There’s nothing on YouTube I can find, which seems unusual.
It’s not unusual for them to remove videos which break their Terms of Use. Videos containing hate speak are often removed, not unusual at all. Nothing I can do about the video having been removed unfortunately.
Will you be providing evidence for your first comment, about the call for impeachment being the result of an anti-Israel resolution?
| 26 February 2009, 11:34 pm |
it is covered here, http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1233304788139&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
| 27 February 2009, 1:59 am |
RE: “Sadly, the plain facts of the matter will not prevent Zionists from spinning the incident into another Kristalnacht. Given the catastrophic fall in support for Israel in Western societies since Zionism degenerated to being nothing more than an endless military assault, the supporters of Israel have no weapon left other than inventing pogroms and persecution to justify their crimes against humanity.”
Yada yada yada. fact is Israel has more support from Western and other governments (including, tacitly, Arab govts) now than it has for years, presumably because heads of govt with real responsibilities realize how they would have dealt with the daily provocations from Gaza. Israel’s drop in public opinion is mainly among the windy chattering classes, of which you are a prime example. Most regular people don’t care or support its actions for the same reason as the heads of govt do.
As for York, if Jewish students had done to the Palestinians what these so-called anti-zionists did, you would be screaming oppression from the rooftops. Your comments are so sanctimonious and predictable i have to have a barf bag next to me when i read them. too pathetic.
| 27 February 2009, 2:02 am |
Thanks to the long domination of the liberal left there, journalists are hauled up before kangaroo courts for accurately quoting European Muslims, etc., etc.
Missing from your enumeration is the Canadian government’s assault on the freedom to say idiotic things.
Like, that the Holocaust never happened.
| 27 February 2009, 2:03 am |
Sophia: I find it interesting, too, that anti-Zionists are alleged to have screamed “go back to Israel.” Makes me wonder if perhaps such allegations are a pack of lies, actually.
I hope you weren’t expecting intellectual rigor from such people.
| 27 February 2009, 3:29 am |
York (along with Concordia and Simon Fraser in Canada) has long been like this. Their professors tend to be almost satirically radical and you can usually tell them on TV because they are always outraged. Antisemitism is not a big problem in Canada and certainly nothing the way it is in Britain. That’s not to say that people should not be worried about it, because places like York (or Sid Ryan at CUPE-see link) are worrisome.
| 27 February 2009, 5:08 am |
Dear Rational Non-Anti-Semites;
I am new here, so you can ignore me and I won’t take offense, but honestly, you do not do yourself any favors when you grapple with the likes of Voice of Reason, and the rest of that crew. It is not just that they are anti-Semites, that is a given. They come here BECAUSE they are anti-Semites. Something truly sick in them drives them to come to a place where Jews can be found in order to bait them. If you are Jewish, or at least not anti-Semitic, these sickos have a twisted need to inflict psychological harm and even injuries on you. It makes them feel superior to you, because just as racists have always been, they are small, highly damaged people, and they need someone to hate. Jews are always a good target.
In a mob, such as the one at York University (isn’t that the same school which disinvited Binyamin Netanyahu some years ago? Interesting that it has an ethnic Arab at its helm.), such as that Ben creature, or this creep, or any of them, would be able to inflict actual injuries, but in their daily lives they are generally meek, cowardly individuals, so they come here and talk big.
I am not saying not to correct their many mistakes, that is necessary, of course. But talking to them, instead of about them, only feeds their appetite for Jew-baiting. Deny them that pleasure, and make exposure to truth and the facts be as wormwood and gall in their mouths.
| 27 February 2009, 5:49 am |
(isn’t that the same school which disinvited Binyamin Netanyahu some years ago?)
I suspect Anat that you are thinking of the mob riot and vandalism that derailed Netanyahu’s speaking engagement at Concordia University in Montreal. If I recall correctly, Netanyahu wasn’t officially disinvited, but Concordia could not guarantee his safety nor that of his audience after the eruption of the pro-Islamist and pro-Arab nationalist mob’s violence.
| 27 February 2009, 5:49 am |
(isn’t that the same school which disinvited Binyamin Netanyahu some years ago?)
I suspect Anat that you are thinking of the mob riot and vandalism that derailed Netanyahu’s speaking engagement at Concordia University in Montreal. If I recall correctly, Netanyahu wasn’t officially disinvited, but Concordia could not guarantee his safety nor that of his audience after the eruption of the pro-Islamist and pro-Arab nationalist mob’s violence.
| 27 February 2009, 7:48 am |
Anat: don’t worry; when I see that Voice of Reason or the Hasbara Buster have made a post, I just skip to the next post. I’ve read enough of their crap to know it’s not worth the time and emotional energy.
I do the same with John P about Kosovo.
I recommend the strategy if one is going to be able to read HP without screaming.
| 27 February 2009, 8:06 am |
Voice of Reason% – “All reports indicate, including this one, that no violence actually took place, just name-calling and jeering.”
Really? And so calling a Muslim “Osama Bin Laden” or a “F*cking terrorist” or telling them to “F*ck off back home” is fine as far as you are concerned because no actual violence takes place, just name calling and jeering?
I think the British police would beg to differ.
| 27 February 2009, 8:45 am |
Brown signs declaration against anti-Semitism
On signing the declaration, Gordon Brown said, “So many of the principles it enshrines are already things we are doing here in Britain, and while I’m proud of the bold action Britain has taken to combat anti-Semitism such as improved reporting, prosecutions for anti-Semitic Internet hate and the funding of Holocaust education in schools, there is no room for complacency.
Anyone noticed any difference? Instead we have an increase in antisemitism. See how they barred the antisemitic, Holocaust denying priest.
| 27 February 2009, 8:46 am |
| 27 February 2009, 9:16 am |
Ana -
don’t worry, nobody is going to ignore you. What you say makes eminent sense.
Do you have any objection if we laugh at them? ;-)
Quisquis -
And Kronstadt and BenCohen too, I assume?
| 27 February 2009, 9:17 am |
Sorry, AnaT.
| 27 February 2009, 12:22 pm |
Tadhg Ó Muiris,
“Sophia: I find it interesting, too, that anti-Zionists are alleged to have screamed “go back to Israel.” Makes me wonder if perhaps such allegations are a pack of lies, actually.”
Because, like, antisemites never profess anti-Zionist views, nor vice versa, do they? Or do you think it is a logical impossibility?
But what’s your interest in all this?
You’re a Canadian-Irish (cultural Catholic Christian) Gaelic singer song writer:
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Cathedral/3638/
You’re clearly a bit of an Irish cultural nationalist. I hope you are not denying Jews the right to be sympathetic to Israeli Hebrew Jewish nationalism in the way you clearly grant yourself to be to Irish.
I hope you were, or would, not be one of those shouting “Zionism is racism”. Or would you?
| 27 February 2009, 12:27 pm |
“You’re clearly a bit of an Irish cultural nationalist. I hope you are not denying Jews the right to be sympathetic to Israeli Hebrew Jewish nationalism in the way you clearly grant yourself to be to Irish.”
Or indeed to Palestinian Christian and Islamic nationalism.
| 27 February 2009, 12:35 pm |
However, apparently, Tadhg Ó Muiris has a good command of Yiddish, inter alia:
“Tadhg Ó Muiris is a part-time harper, and full-time student in his final undergrad year, majoring in Celtic and Mediaeval Studies at the University of Toronto. He has a good command of Irish and Yiddish, and can struggle through an Arabic newspaper article with the help of a dictionary (if that doesn’t sound like much of an achievement, try it some time).”
So, nothing of the romantic medievalist nationalist about Tadhg, then.
Here he is in his uniform, replete with kilt:
http://urbanguerrillaharper.blogspot.com/2009/02/exposed-university-of-toronto.html
Here are some of his more intimate views of “Zionists”:
“Now, it may sound simplistic, but in my experience it is generally true that you can tell if a Zionist is lying based upon whether or not their lips are moving.”
And here is his account of exactly what happened with YSF and Hillel:
”
This story concerns, sadly, student politics … a subject for which I have scant relish, but here goes: It so happens that the student council at York, known by the acronym YFS, passed a resolution condemning the Israeli massacres in Gaza this January. This aroused the ire of the local Zionists, York Hillel and York Hasbara (the latter a Hebrew word for “filthy racist propaganda”), who decided to punish YFS by collecting sufficient student signatures (5,000 out of a student body of over 50,000) to recall the student government and hold new elections. Now, because a) most students at York were as revolted and sickened by the Israeli atrocities as anyone, and b) most students were not particularly enamored of the idea of new student council elections, Hillel decided that the rationale for impeachment would have to be YFS’s stance during the recent strike at York, during which it was sympathetic to the striking teachers’ assistants. Sadly, union-bashing proved to be a more successful ticket than cheerleading Israeli war-crimes would have been, particularly among students who had just missed 3 months of classes due to management’s intransigence, and so sufficient signatures were duly collected. Then, in a fit of hubristic triumphalism, the Hillelniks who had just succeeded in toppling the student council decided to hold a press conference to crow about it. This would turn out to be a bridge too far for our intrepid strategists. The press conference was scheduled to be held in a 3rd-floor room large enough to accommodate 50 people, and far more students showed up than expected, not all of whom had come to pat Hillel on the back. There ensued a vociferous exchange of views concerning the place settings and seating arrangements at the press conference, whereupon the whole thing was cancelled, and the Hillelniks shlepped up to their lounge on the fourth floor to do their homework. After some 10 minutes, an undetermined number of demonstrators from the 3rd floor, who unexpectedly found themselves at a loose end that afternoon due to a recent cancellation, proceeded up to the 4th floor to engage in a bit of anti-Zionist chanting. Hillel, perceiving Kristallnacht II in the offing, called the cops and were escorted out.”
http://urbanguerrillaharper.blogspot.com/2009/02/kvetching-on-campus-boyz-n-victimhood-i.html
| 27 February 2009, 1:17 pm |
So the subsequent hostility expressed towards those at the press conference had nothing to do with Israel/Palestine.
So a bunch of gibbering racists yelling “Die Jew” was just pure Jew-hatred without even the thin veil of being “motivated by Israeli policy”. Thanks for clearing that up
| 27 February 2009, 1:17 pm |
So the subsequent hostility expressed towards those at the press conference had nothing to do with Israel/Palestine.
So a bunch of gibbering racists yelling “Die Jew” was just pure Jew-hatred without even the thin veil of being “motivated by Israeli policy”. Thanks for clearing that up
| 27 February 2009, 1:18 pm |
correction
You’re a Canadian-Irish (cultural Catholic Christian? Or of Jewish descent?) Gaelic singer song writer
| 27 February 2009, 1:25 pm |
Ah, so the screeching Irish harpist is nothing but a common or garden brain-dead antisemitic tosspot. How very predictable and boring.
| 27 February 2009, 2:16 pm |
Here he is in his uniform, replete with kilt:
http://urbanguerrillaharper.blogspot.com/2009/02/exposed-university-of-toronto.html
Mine eyes!!!
| 27 February 2009, 3:02 pm |
I find it interesting, too, that anti-Zionists are alleged to have screamed “go back to Israel.” Makes me wonder if perhaps such allegations are a pack of lies, actually.
And the words come back: “if the Jews all gather in Israel, then it will save us the trouble of going after them across the world.” To me, all this point does is make the allegations seem more likely.
| 27 February 2009, 4:26 pm |
Ah, Hasan, but Taghd has an answer for that too:
| 27 February 2009, 4:27 pm |
sorry, TaDhG
| 27 February 2009, 6:52 pm |
THere is a very full discussion of the incident from many perspectives at Dawg’s Blawg, under the heading “Rashomon at York.”
| 27 February 2009, 6:56 pm |
bissli asks for evidence that the ruckus was over YFS support for Gazan educational institutions.
http://secondgenerationradical.blogmatrix.com/:entry:secondgenerationradical-2009-01-26-0003/
| 27 February 2009, 6:59 pm |
sorry, I screwed up the link to Dawg’s Blawg “Rashomon at York.” Here’s hoping this works better:
http://drdawgsblawg.blogspot.com/2009/02/rashomon-at-york.html
| 27 February 2009, 9:16 pm |
It seems to me that the students who gathered outside the Hillel lounge behaved in an aggressive and intimidatory way. It doesn’t matter if there was no explicit threat to assault. Mass gathering outside where a target group is, banging on walls or windows, especially so that fixtures shake, covering faces with keffiyeh’s, shouting loudly, is clearly intended to intimidate. One can protest in a legitimate space, peacefully, with no intent to intimidate. But this was not such behaviour. It was aggressive, and intended to frighten.
| 27 February 2009, 9:20 pm |
From Jim’s link, this is the fullest eyewitness account I can find:
A Jewish student.
Anyways, as I arrived at the Hillel [a campus club for Jewish students --DD] I was told that a press conference was to be held on the 3rd floor of the Student Center in regards to the Drop YFS [York Federation of students --DD] campaign. A campaign where numerous student groups on campus, some of which are Jewish got together and collected signatures from over 10% of the student population, which is somewhere between 40,000 – 50,000 students, in order to impeach the current student government over their support of the union which went on strike in November and effectively locked-out all students on campus for 3 months.
The student government on the other hand went on the defensive and stated that the reason why the groups involved with the petition to rid them from office was because we as Jews were upset that they passed a resolution condemning Israel for their action in Gaza. Keep in mind that a large majority of the student government is comprised of students who are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel supporters. The petition did not come about for that reason, while outside politics should not be something that a student government should concern themselves with during a strike which is keeping students out of classes, the petition came about because of the lack of action and commitment to the students during the strike.
So anyways, the Drop YFS campaign was successful and the required signatures were collected, and as a result of the strike, the local media who is constantly interested with the University and will probably be so for the rest of this school year, were invited to a press conference to talk about the campaign and what was done. The press conference as mentioned earlier was being held in a smaller room in the Student Center that may have had a maximum capacity of 50-60 individuals in a standing room style setting. The press conference was open to any and all students who wished to attend and quickly the room began to fill and when it reached capacity there were still close to 100 more students outside who wanted to come in, and the crowd was growing.
While the next bit of information may seem irrelevant, trust me it is.
Anyways, of those who were inside the room the composition of those inside was a mix of students, there were Jewish students, African Canadian students, South Asian students, Asian students, and Middle Eastern students. As the crowd outside became unruly, it became apparent that the crowd outside were students who would consider themselves pro-Palestinian supporters, and were the same students who opposed the Drop YFS campaign. Of those who were inside the room there was a mixed group of pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian students of which from both groups some were pro-Drop YFS and some were anti-Drop YFS. But with help from some students, the mob was held back at the door for fear of a fire hazard and it was decided that the press conference was to begin.
Also, just before the press conference started, a Middle Easter pro-Palestinian supporter shouted out loud right next to me, “Let the Colored people in.” To which an African Canadian student showed her disgust with this comment and stated to a friend of mine that maybe this pro-Palestinian supporter also wants to place them in the back corner as well. And, after this pro-Palestinian supporter made this comment he followed it up with, “Maybe if my friends bleach their skin they’ll be let inside.” This comment grew equal disgust as the first by the other students standing around him.
Two minutes into the press conference, loud shouts from outside the room of “Let us in!” and “Zionism is racism,” with heavy banging on the walls prompted an immediate halt to the press conference, out of fear that the room may be rushed and people may be hurt. A reasonable response for the situation that was occurring outside of this room.
Now let me preface the rest with me saying that I am a big supporter of free speech and I don’t care if there students on campus who wish to support Palestine and even shout anti-Israel slogans but with what happened next went a step beyond free speech and what was said and the actions taken by this individuals bordered on hate speech and discrimination.
As the room was letting out numerous students with cameras, as well as media present, were taking pictures of what was going on outside of the room where the press conference was being held. I myself who always has a camera and likes taking pictures of these types of events proceeded to do the same. The Middle Eastern student who was shouting the racial slurs earlier stepped in front of where I was taking pictures/videos of what was occurring and when he realized what I was doing, and I believe it was only because I was wearing my Yarmulke (Jewish skull cap), he told me that if I take his picture, that he will take my camera and smash it. He only issued this threat to me and no other student so I believe I am fair to state that this threat to break my camera was only done so because I was Jewish and that I am therefore guilty due to association.
So as the Jewish students proceeded up the stairs to the Hillel lounge the crowd that gathered proceeded to shout anti-Israel slogans at us such as “Zionism is Racism.” To which I did not care because like I said, in the nature of free speech, each person is entitled to it, and did not think anything of it. And, about ten minutes later is when things began to grow really ugly.
As the mob did not disperse, on the third floor, a worker in the Hillel decided that it was best to lock the door of the Hillel, and only let the Jewish students inside until the crowd thinned out, just to be on the safe side. Not thinking that anything was going to happen, the students in the Hillel lounge went about there typical business, sitting around and doing school work. Ten minutes passed, and before anyone realized what was happening, the mob that was outside the press conference on the third floor was outside the Hillel office on the fourth floor. The students outside of the Hillel were shouting louder their anti-Israel slogans and banging on the floor and walls so hard that the lights outside the Hillel were flickering. As the students in Hillel began to grow uneasy and the feeling of being safe was diminishing, York security was called in to try and help break up the crowd but as any student who has been to York knows, the campus security is severely limited on the force that they can use and they were unable to break up the crowd. And, as a result we were encouraged by Hillel staff to call the Toronto Police to help disperse the crowd. Some students who had the local non-emergency number called that one but as panic was setting in with other students some called 911 as they were truly scared for their safety.
Just as Toronto Police were arriving on campus, one pro-Palestinian student stood at the glass door of the Hillel, visible to the students in the Hillel, with his Kaffeiyah scarf pulled all the way up to his eyes. This is a tactic used by terrorist organizations such as Hamas and al-Qaeda to intimidate others, and quite frankly I was completely taken off-guard by the sight of this student and at that point fear began to trickle into me as well. This is something that goes beyond free speech and being anti-Israel and is tantamount to racism and discrimination. As the police arrived they stated that in a situation like this there is nothing they can do as they did not feel that there was an actual threat of violence, however, it was their belief that the possibility remained. They then told us that because they could not stand watch at the door all night, that it was highly recommended that we vacate the lounge immediately and they would assist us with safe passage through the crowd so as to prevent anything from occurring. And as 20 Jewish student walked single file through this unruly mob, they were pointing, laughing and chanting that we were “Racists on Campus!”
The interesting thing is this, while all of this occurred, primarily because of the press conference, there was media present watching all of this. Of the three members of the press present one was the Excalibur, the largest campus newspaper, whose editorial board tends to be considered slightly pro-Palestinian, a smaller college affiliated paper was there and The Globe and Mail was there, which is a Canadian national newspaper. All three especially the national newspaper but more interestingly, the campus newspaper showed their complete disgust with what happened outside both the press conference and the Hillel.
I reprinted most of this account, lengthy as it is, because it contains all of the elements that have been taken up in other accounts. The three-month strike at York caused a lot of resentment. The York Federation of Students (the student council) allegedly endorsed the strike–it says it didn’t, mind you, referring us to this statement in November (see end of third paragraph)–and a student movement to impeach the lot of them gained some traction on campus.
The YFS also passed a resolution condemning Israel for the recent carnage in Gaza. The two issues became inextricably entangled.
| 27 February 2009, 10:04 pm |
There are comments there with more information, but the blog just happened to suffer a Haloscan outage today. The comments are working again (last time I looked).
| 27 February 2009, 11:27 pm |
sorry, I screwed up the link to Dawg’s Blawg “Rashomon at York.” Here’s hoping this works better:
Could you possibly point out the relevant bit so that I don’t have to read all the Kafka stuff?
| 27 February 2009, 11:39 pm |
OK Jim, this link here http://secondgenerationradical.blogmatrix.com/:entry:secondgenerationradical-2009-01-26-0003/ which you provided, is confusing. It doesn’t seem to be saying that the call for impeachment had anything to do with the anti-Israel motion. It does say that Jewish students tried to prevent the motion, but doesn’t say that they tried to impeach the YFS leadership because of the motion. Can we get this issue clarified? I’m sure VOR/Benji has more info..perhaps he could for once address questions put to him instead of running off?
| 28 February 2009, 12:53 am |
For this particular link, you have to read between the lines. The writer tries to appear concerned about the strike, but actually spends the entire post talking about the Gaza motion. The real concern is obvious, and the strike is offered as an unconvincing pretext for the writer’s outrage.
Several sources have said that the Drop YFS campaign had clear afflilations with York Hasbara and Hillel. The Drop YFS Facebook page was founded by the president of Hasbara. York’s Excalibur website currently features two video reports from student journalists that try to tell both sides of the story.
According to this report from the Canadian Jewish News, animosity toward YFS over its pro-Palestinian policies goes back at least to 2005.
http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14515&Itemi
This Drop YFS video shows that Drop YFS had adopted an aggressive and confrontational tone in the days before the Feb 11 incident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64kOcqRtOOw&feature=related
This is the context in which the Feb 11 demonstration occurred.
| 28 February 2009, 9:22 am |
Bissli,
the account I posted is, I think, the ONLY eyewitness account on the site, certainly the only substantial one, to which Jim linked, under “Jewish student”.
Contra. “Dawg”, I think it is fairly easy to get an idea of what happened.
I agree, the “Kafkareque” (inverted commas because it is not really very Kafaresque) is tedious (give ‘em some post-modern lit crit theory, and they think they can deconstruct anything), but scroll down a bit.
| 28 February 2009, 2:32 pm |
THe screen says my post of Feb 28, 12:53 is still in the moderation queue, and since then zkhara’s of 9:22 a.m. has appeared.
Perhaps this gives me a chance to correct a date: “2005″ should read “April 2008″.
The Drop YFS Facebook page is readily accessible by search engine.
I hope I needn’t add that “Liberty, if it means anything, is the right to tell people what they don’t want to hear.”
| 1 March 2009, 2:45 pm |
Here is head of York PSC, Dan Freeman-Moloy (another Irish-SJew, like Tadhg (or myself), perhaps?):
“But, it may be asked, aren’t there two sides to the Israel-Palestine conflict; isn’t it as wrong to side with the Palestinians as with Israel? The answer, I think, is a simple no.”
http://www.excal.on.ca/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6826&Itemid=2
Is it is a little disturbing to here the Excalibur reporter on the upper video report, clearly pro-Palestinian, anti-Zionist/Israeli (she uses the term “Israeli apartheid” without qualification or parenthesis), describe the pro-Israel supporters and groups as “Israeli”.
The lower video seems more sympathetic to Hillel et al. It also contains a snip of the situation in the Hillel office, though not of any situation outside. The Excalibur reporter asserts that pro-YSF supporters did try to “storm the Hillel offices, to which many of the Drop YSF supporters had retreated”.
Here is former York Hillel chairperson:
http://www.excal.on.ca/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6873&Itemid=2
Here is another anti-YSF Government op-ed:
“Many felt the York Federation of Students (YFS) turned their backs on the approximately 50,000 students they represented when they supported CUPE 3903.”
http://www.excal.on.ca/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6825&Itemid=2
Here’s another on the deficit in York campus security:
http://www.excal.on.ca/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6824&Itemid=2
Here’s one against political polarity:
“York students are now in a position of being called racist, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, anti- Semitic, inhumane or just plain apathetic according on their actions. You have to lend sympathy to one side or face a finger pointing at you with whatever “label” will cause you to repent, grow a conscience or sympathize and join the cause. Before you pick a side, ask yourself: What does Drop YFS stand to gain if they impeach the YFS? What does YFS stand to gain if the same leaders are recycled? And who benefits from usversus-
them rallies in Vari Hall? The answer is – no one.”
http://www.excal.on.ca/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6827&Itemid=2
I read the report on the link, but the main video has been pulled. I confess I don’t quite understand what happened, or what the remaining videos show, or what stage in the story. Can anyone clarify?
The videos below show Jewish students in a hall filled with pro-Palestinian demonstrators. Was this on the way to the meeting, to Hillel, or what?