Harry's Place

What a charming bunch of people.

I await some winguts vigorous explanation of how the BNP are really leftwing after all………

Aye, what a bunch of total total wankers!

The place sounds like its own punishment. I mean, the jukebox! It’s nice to have them all in one place, who knows maybe a plane will crash on it.

Is it too much to hope that the pub will be shut down by dignified legal means?

Or will some lefty nutters take the law into their own hands and provide a further boost to such groups by destroying the place?

Looks like Soho, circa 1991

If they didn’t do the Hitler salutes, I’d have assumed they were a gay men’s hiking club. Not a woman in sight.

David,

You are right, secretly they all yearn to share a nice hot soapy bath together.

Suppressed sexuality does often seem to be a trigger for extremist behaviour!

I don’t see why a whites only jukebox should have to play screwdriver, brutal attack, Whitelaw and razors edge, whoever they are. Supertramp never had any non-white members, they could easily be on there, and Abba must be Nordic enough to qualify.

Dreadful, to think that some groups and individuals actively seek to discourage people with higher melanin content skins than theirs from being part of their ‘club’. They’ve obviously taken a leaf out of the National Black Police Association’s handbook. How about a post on the NBPA and other racialist organisations like them? What do you think Right not Racist?

Bunch of wanters and do you see that bozza in the back. They must be all rejects so they need a place to hide

They have a dream…

By pairs, one of them will rub oil in the baldy head of the other and the first will sensuosly rub his head on the musculous chest of the second.
They will film it for later enjoyment.

Looks like ‘Comptons’ circa 3pm

Looks like nowhere close to my home.

Where is the pub?

As we can see, Al-Muhajiroun and co are not the only people bringing hate to the streets of 21st Century Britain.

Surely a moderate Muslim by any measure?

“A progressive Muslim imam from Oxford has won a libel action against a Muslim newspaper in what he claims is a “watershed moment” in the battle between liberal and extremist Muslims in Britain.

Dr Taj Hargey, who provoked controversy last year when he invited the first ever woman to lead and preach at Friday prayers in Britain, has been awarded a “substantial” five-figure sum in libel damages against the Muslim Weekly, which takes a conservative line on community issues. “

I’ve known pubs that make it blatantly obvious that non-white people are not allowed. There was one pub down the Mile End Road run by a BNP thug, but I think it may have closed down now.

I do think that groups like the NBPA make it hard to argue against the creation of voluntary, lawful and properly-constituted whites only groups.

The double standard there plays a role in the alienation currently affecting parts of the white community, IMO.

However the comparison does not stand in this case, because it is not lawful to discriminate on entry to this pub on the grounds of race.

I like Taj Hargey and I don’t know why we don’t see more of him.

Is the Ivan Denisovitch / Sinead O’Connor / Umrah hairstyle absolutely de rigeur?

Surely HP readers can see the comic possibilities of this fine establishment.

A brisk comedy is called for; it cries out for the talents of a Joe Orton.

“it is not lawful to discriminate on entry to this pub on the grounds of race.”

Yes it is lawful. A licenced premises can exclude whoever it wants.

Nice what-aboutery Runciford. Unfortunately you won’t be able to distract people here from the subject in hand, which is your mates in the BNP.

Old, overweight and bald. S*d! I had better not go out.

Seriously, is this a late April Fool wind up? I would hate to be in a pub with this lot. They might get a bit friendly.

Talking about young men, a tiny item in the local free sheet reports that a local man has been charged with trying to set fire to the Royal Bank of Scotland building during the G20 demo. Nothing remarkable about that, except this man was Lithuainian. It made me think about the thugs who attacked Starbucks after a Gaza demo. Do you think they could have been Eastern European Nazis?

This would hardly be the first, or only, pub in “the Glasgow area” to make it clear (including with the content of jukeboxes, nationalist banners, etc) that hospitality is only to be extended to those born into the right tribe, and that those born into the wrong tribe will be excluded, by violent means if necessary.

Can’t we arrange for Al-Muj and this lot to meet up? Both problems solved!!

Why are they all wearing those black disks over their faces?

“Why are they all wearing those black disks over their faces?”

They look better that way.

This is a really depressing development. I am fearful that the BNP will have a breakthough result at the next election.

I blame people like Galloway who have made it acceptable to support Islamist fascists, like Hizbollah, and therefore disarmed society of the moral capacity to innoculate the mainstream from white fascism.

Anyone that believes the BNP are “a legitimate party” should read this, read the call for a colour bar, view the skin-heads giving Nazi salutes, and then face the reality: fascism is growing again in the UK.

A sad day.

“Why are they all wearing those black disks over their faces?”

Is it cos they is black?

“I am fearful that the BNP will have a breakthough result at the next election.”

Yes, they will. The BNP is a kind of gateway drug. The rise of the BNP will feed into a rise of the violent factions, which unofficially associate with the party and/or its members.

Dare: We all go round and start a conversation 3LOUDLY:

‘So I was rimming this black fella and….’

HP initiation????

Yes, Gene, about the black masks. I thought for a moment they were allowing blacks in their pub. Not a suitable colour to chose, especially as black masks are associated with criminality – well, that may be an inadvertent admisson. More suitable would be shit coloured Khaki or Klu Klux Klan white.

But how accurate those men are in inadvertently admitting the truth in gathering together and putting in a show case the lowest form of biological entities walking on two feet.

I know a pub like that in Surrey, near where my son lives. A mate of his, a very large gay black guy, once went in there for a sort of dare. The barman said, sneeringly, “Sorry, we don’t serve your sort here”. The guy replied very loudly “But how did you know I was gay?” Sharp intake of breath from all present. Fortunately the guy was big enough to make it out again in one piece.

“Is it too much to hope that the pub will be shut down by dignified legal means?”

Yes.

“Or will some lefty nutters take the law into their own hands and provide a further boost to such groups by destroying the place?”

I hope so.

Dan

‘A licenced premises can exclude whoever it wants’

As a former pub manager, I was told very explicitly that right of refusal could not be on grounds of gender, race, religion nor sexuality. The colour of their shirt, yes, but not race.

‘Right not racist’

If the NBPA was a fragment of a militant Black nationalist group who embraced racial violence as their mazeway and who’s members continued to plan attacks and then opened a black only tapas bar and oraganic cheese shop, then your analogy would have a point. Are you new to this?

These chaps look revolting & represent the nastiest end of multiculturalism.

There are plenty more parts of the UK where deeply unpleasant non whites make sure that no white person is safe.

To understand the level of “concern” that the white working class feel, it should be remembered that in 1945 there were only eight thousand black people in the entire UK.

No society can cope with violent changes, particularly islamic colonization,
without equal & opposite reactions setting in. Those reactions are likely to be
even nastier than the offence caused by the incomers. The fact that we do not have gangs of whites behaving like the Jew haters at the Israeli embassy
demos, or putting bombs in mosques shows how mild we are in the UK.

But I must say those nasty looking chaps are a gift to the BBC to remind us how rotten we are to those saintly foreigners who move heaven & earth
to come here become victims of racism.

Martin.

Martin

Cipriano,

can’t you see that your position requires (a) descending to the level of these people and (b) inevitably swelling their ranks?

We have to be better than them.

“I await some winguts vigorous explanation of how the BNP are really leftwing after all………”

Well one could put forward a strong argument that the BUF were left-wing on the basis that they were concerned primarily about economics and favoured government planning and intervention. The BNP put less emphasis on economics though. So is it the emphasis on race that makes them right-wing?

“I was told very explicitly that right of refusal could not be on grounds of gender, race, religion nor sexuality.”

Was that company policy or was it law?

Fitting they should give a racist salut in front of a boutique named “complexions”.

If they didn’t do the Hitler salutes, I’d have assumed they were a gay men’s hiking club.

Johan Hari would know the answer to that.

RNR –

I appreciate your point, but don’t quite agree. It won’t necessarily swell their ranks – I see no logical reason why it should. “Creeping legitimisation” is far more dangerous. And as for “being better than them” – sorry, but we are that already. And we didn’t defeat these people in 1939-45 by sitting with thumbs up bums reflecting on how much better we are, did we?

Reminds me of a chat with a friend some time ago, who had been at Birmingham University in the 80s. He told me that the NF had set up a headquarters in Handsworth of all places. “Of course it got burnt down the very first day,” he said, and took a swig from his glass. “Yes, I enjoyed doing that,” he added reflectively.

I suppose the problem with a Friends’ Meeting House is the reluctance to allow booze. Otherwise it’s hard to see why a racist, anti-semitic, violent organisation needs to go to all the effort to open a pub when the Quakers are happy offer hospitality.

Just read this post. Re: the ‘all-white pub’, I just can’t help thinking what the sales pitch would be. I mean, who would honestly want to go to drink in a place frequented exclusively by ugly, moronic, male scumbags?

Still, it would be handy for someone like ‘Hebrew Hammer’ to pay them a visit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-z_00M3Bro

Richard,

The extreme right wing has always been less about economics and more about nationalism.

When Corneliu Codreanu founded the fasicst Iron Guard in Romania in the 1930s, gave a list of things the Guard was against,

“Freemasonry, Freudianism, homosexuality, atheism, Marxism, Bolshevism, the civil war in Spain, and social democracy were undermining society”

I doubt Mussolini, Hitler, Franco or Salazar would have disagreed.

As a former pub manager, I was told very explicitly that right of refusal could not be on grounds of gender, race, religion nor sexuality.

I have a friend who bought a pub a couple of years ago in Brighton, and was told the same at a course he was sent on as part of his training. After pointing out that you’re not allowed to refuse to serve gays the diversity officer then said something like, “So that might be a problem for you, you know, in Brighton, cos there are loads of them down there.”

The pub is now one of the sponsors of Brighton Pride.

Hmm. I could name quite a few pubs, even in London, that explicitly state in signs on their entrances that they will not admit people on the basis of their ethnicity or perceived ethnicity. (In at least one case, in what I presumed, correctly or otherwise, was an attempt to stay on the right side of the law, the sign has been amended to read “Travellers by appointment only”.

Martin ought to tell us his source for the claim that in 1945 there were no more than 8,000 black people in the whole U.K.

Is it a wild guess, a careful estimate or an Official Statistic [which may well turn out to be no better than the aforesaid wild guess.]

Andrew Murphy

Small point. Codreanu founded his first independent movement, the Legion of the Archangel Michael in 1928. The Iron Guard itself was the para-military movement within the Legion as a whole. Their electoral front was called ‘All for the fatherland’ or some such.

I would add that fascism and the wider genus of organic nastionalism was entirely uninterested in economics as an end. All the ideological precedences of both were concerned with action, political action as the course to regenerate or save their societies. They were dedicated to the act of will, to idealism, to vitalism. Their debt to Bergson, Maurras, Barres, Sorel and Papini is vast.

One of the few reputable academic arguments made about fascism being outside the left-right dynamic is made by Zeev Sternhell. He demarks fascism as a anti-materialist heretic Marxism synthesised with extreme anti-liberal nationalism (he claims they were neither right or left). Whilst I and many others disagree, the anti-materialist element is vitally important in understanding fascism.

Excellent work, Edmund.

Supertramp never had any non-white members, they could easily be on there, and Abba must be Nordic enough to qualify.
They look like they’d go wild for Right Said Fred. Pub trades in decline, once it would have been a licence to print money but nowadays you’re putting a millstone over your shoulders, there’s once lively pubs standing boarded up with decaying notices proclaiming their sale by auction at dates long since passed all over town.

I don’t think this is a huge deal really.

The RVF is a tiny group and I think sustaining a pub of their own, even with their well-earned reputation for drinking rather than engaging in any sort of action, is beyond them.

I think it’s more plausible that Mark Atkinson has decided, after his recent release from prison, to open up a pub in Glasgow and will encourage his neo-Nazi mates to congregate there. The photos of the pub full of boneheads were probably taken at the Kriss Donald Memorial on March 21st and so represents the numbers this lot can turn out nationally rather than what the place is like on your average Saturday night.

To Bill Corr,

I heard a Radio 4 programme today about the rotten treatment of black French soldiers after the Liberation of Paris.

Black US troops were stationed in the UK & were viewed with surprise by the locals. The BBC gave the number of 8,000 black UK residents..

I lived in the London suburbs in the 1940s & 50s & spoke to a black person first in 1955 (I remember the date, we became friends). I’d seen very few before then.

Bristol Council is proud of the fact that 30,000 muslims live within its boundaries. I’m not sure that the poorer whites share this enthusiasm

Martin.

“As a former pub manager, I was told very explicitly that right of refusal could not be on grounds of gender, race, religion nor sexuality. The colour of their shirt, yes, but not race.”

So you were really more of a SocialPublican? A ha ha ha.

I’ve a feeling this pub*
http://www.pubutopia.com/pubs/L/Lewes/The%20Dorset%20Arms/index.html
was obliged to take down a sign refusing entry to blacks back in the mid 80s.

*If it wasn’t the Dorset but some other round there, apologies to all concerned, especially those still living and litigating.

“Abba must be Nordic enough to qualify.”

One of them is even half-Nazi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anni-Frid_Lyngstad

what’s the pub’s name…the White Heart?

Cipriano, I restrained myelf from writing of similar experiences with pubs, like your black man who entered one as a challenge. When I was staying in Twickenham I frequently walked past a pub that not only refused black and brown, but excepted only the British. They tried to cultivate a vulgarly swish type of redneck. I couldn’t resist the temptation to go in and provoke. I was British and, better still, of white South African origin.

After we had happily established our common ground, I began to ask questions.

Do you really think we are superior to non-whites, the French the Spanish etc?
Yes, ofcourse.
Can you tell me what qualities you have that make you superior?
Are you academics? Is it due to your culture?
Do you know the history of England?
Do you know the litrature of your country, the great poets that represent you?
Are you scientists?
They were silent.

By this time they had smelled a rat, and as I was being hustled out I said, “I can’t see a trace of superiorty in you. And by the way the jazz your are playing originates in Black America and does have a culture behind it.

I can think of ways of hassling that pub out of its tiny mind

Why is there a hammer and sickle logo in the shop front of the fourth photo? And where’s the last sentence of the email “and I am wanking as I write this”?

dzb -

I don’t think this sort of person has the mental capacity to type and wank at the same time.

Wishful thinking, d z bedenberg. I don’t think that is a hammer and sickle.

Regarding the last photo, when you do the Hitler salute, should it be with the left or right hand? And what is the salute by the guy on the right?

This rather ridiculous mob of moronic thugs seem easy to dismiss – but as is regularly pointed out they are like the rowdier elements of the SA in relation to a disturbingly strong resurgence in Europe of the far right. And more disturbing than the the more sober elements of the far right – like Vlaams Belang, Le Pen, the BNP and a host of others from London to Moscow (and with plenty of Transatlantic ties as well) suiting up and getting votes is the indulgence being shown to these groups a wide range of people ostensibly in the name of the Centre right – and in the name of counteracting the alliance of far left with Isamists and a similarly shameful indulgence shown by many claiming to be liberal or social democrats towards that alliance.

As a fairly regular reader of Little Green Footballs I have observed how Charles Johnson, and people like David Brooks and David Frum – have been recently engaged in a very similar project to that which HP, Norm Geras, Nick Cohen and others have been enaged in – though one has it’s targets rightwards, and the other leftwards. It is with a degree of bemusement that I have noticed how similar the reaction of both the loopier sections of the right (as well as a number of people who should know better) has been to the way a good deal of the left reacted when they got cogently called on their bullshit. The accusations of being right rather than left have their parralel in the accusations levelled at RINO’s, there is a similar level of hysteria and grasping at conspiracies, and a goodly amount of Denial (Robert Spencer deserves a special mention in that regard).

If the NBPA was a fragment of a militant Black nationalist group who embraced racial violence as their mazeway and who’s members continued to plan attacks and then opened a black only tapas bar and oraganic cheese shop, then your analogy would have a point.

So you excuse covert discrimination then?

Ed can probably tell you about the Nation of Islam and their mosque in Hackney (?). Wasn’t Lee Jasper one of their clientele, Mr Standing?

Of course they’re not a legitimate party and they never will be. However, the same point applies about thousands of hostile Muslims who make these thugs look like teddy bears. And the latter hate ME, while the former do not.

I don’t mind if the presence of the BNP grows, in opposition to hostile Muslims, when the government has failed to address this issue. Islamists, meet the BNP; you deserve them. And quite frankly, after the death threat Islam-will-dominate etc hate protests we’ve seen on British streets, I also don’t mind if the streets start to heat up a little with some friction from the BNP. Muslims have seriously been taking the piss, and I’ve had enough of it.

“latter hate ME, while the former do not.” woops vice versa

Jason

So do you think it is a pertinant analogy?

Sy

‘a SocialPublican’

remove the space

Hmm. I could name quite a few pubs, even in London, that explicitly state in signs on their entrances that they will not admit people on the basis of their ethnicity or perceived ethnicity. (In at least one case, in what I presumed, correctly or otherwise, was an attempt to stay on the right side of the law, the sign has been amended to read “Travellers by appointment only”.

I think you would do well to draw the attention of the licensing authorities to these pubs. It’s against the law. I used to work for the CRE and even then it was against the Race Relations Act 1976 to refuse to serve someone in a pub on the grounds of race. If they were a private club, that might be a different matter, but they’ve stated their wish to be open to the general public.

Did the licensee tell the licensing authorities that it was to be an all-white pub, or that it was connected with the RVF? I suspect that it won’t be long before the police or neighbours are seeking its closure on grounds of disturbing the peace.

So do you think it is a pertinant analogy?

Yes, I do. It’s extremely pertinent. With due respect to the excellent work that Mr Standing undertakes here and elsewhere exposing the BNP for the thugs that they are, one has to be consistent or else it makes a mockery of any concerted effort to promote the view that racial discrimination is wrong. It either is or it isn’t. Any argument to the contrary, for example that ’some’ ‘ethnic and religious minorities’ are somehow marginalised despite no objective, empirical evidence for this, strikes me as moral equivalence.

It seems to me that the same people who argue that non-violent extremists should be co-opted and their views promulgated (roundly condemned here on HP) commit the same logical fallacy as those who justify some forms of racial discrimination.

The NBPA and their multitude of supporters and apologists base their rationale on the same entrenched racist attitudes of which the far-right are accused.

I used to work for the CRE

Which explains so much…

the CRE

To employ the language of the organisation formerly known as the CRE: ‘The CRE and its successor the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, are institutionally racist; rather than diminishing racial discrimination and promoting a more cohesive society, such institutions, true to Orwell, perpetuate bigotry for their own self-serving ends.

Which explains so much…

Explains what, precisely? That it’s illegal to exclude blacks from pubs because of the colour of their skin? To harass Jews because of their dress? To push turds through Asian letter boxes? I have a great deal of problems with the CRE and its successor body, but I am proud of its work in helping people use the law to stop direct discrimination and rather suspect that you don’t feel the term “bigotry” don’t apply to the cases above.

and rather suspect that you don’t feel the term “bigotry” don’t apply to the cases above

Like most thought police advocates Hassan, you always ’suspect’ the worst. It tickles me to imagine you with your little pointy hat on pontificating about ‘turds’ and ‘letterboxes’.

RF, your last sentence entirely justifies the suspicions to which your allude in your first.

the recent day out photos (after a google), were taken in Blantyre outside Glasgow. really a day out in Blantyre? theres sweet FA there…

now the pubs supposed to be in “the glasgow area”..
maybe in Blantyre? cause it aint a place youd go for “a day out”.

white power is on the move and picking up pace. white people are not going to get walked on forever. the white community has been treat like animals and u all know what happens when an animal gets to a point where they cant take it any longer, they bite. the UK is in ruins and still the government lets it get raped and used. anyone who cant see that is obviously in the pocket of the government or has their head stuck so far up their own arse that they choose not to beleive whats happening. i see plenty of mosques around the country, where it is proven that hatred is been preached every day to muslims, yet when there is resistance to this, its turned on its head and made out to be those naughty white right wingers out to cause trouble. pride in the colour of your skin is not an offence yet, so while it remains like this i hope there are more people brave enough to come forward and make a stand. i hope there are more pubs opened in the future that celebrate the white culture.