Harry's Place

That’s hilarious. And probably not entirely a million miles from the truth, either.

I must say I find the (quite recently adopted) flag of Mozambique more objectionable – although I dare say the many “might is right” types who congregate around here will approve.

Having considered voting for them this time, I have been fairly disgusted by the anti-immigration emphasis (or, indeed, almost entire content) of the UKIP campaign, which will thus (as I think freedom of movement and freedom to migrate whenever one wishes to be fundamentally A Good Thing) not be getting my vote.

Looks like it’s probably the Tories then.

(Again, comparing the Christian Party to the BNP just reveals the implicit anti-Christian prejudices that are pretty rampant in the HP comments threads)

It wasn’t an unwise choice. We advised on the symbol.
Mwahahaha!

First Wales, then the world!

The story goes back to the Historia Brittonum by Nennius, an 8th or 9th British monk and, after Gildas, one of the oldest of British authors (which entailed being both Christian and literate a priori):

42. A meeting took place the next day for the purpose of putting him to death. Then the boy said to the king, “Why have your servants brought me hither?” “That you may be put to death,” replied the king, “and that the ground on which my citadel is to stand, may be sprinkled with your blood, without which I shall be unable to build it.” “Who,” said the boy, “instructed you to do this?” “My wise men,” answered the king. “Order them hither,” returned the boy; this being complied with, he thus questioned them: “By what means was it revealed to you that this citadel could not be built, unless the spot were previously sprinkled with my blood? Speak without disguise, and declare who discovered me to you;” then turning to the king, “I will soon,” said he, “unfold to you every thing; but I desire to question your wise men, and wish them to disclose to you what is hidden under this pavement:” they acknowledging their ignorance, “there is,” said he, “a pool; come and dig:” they did so, and found the pool. “Now,” continued he, “tell me what is in it;” but they were ashamed, and made no reply. “I,” said the boy, “can discover it to you: there are two vases in the pool;” they examined, and found it so: continuing his questions, “What is in the vases?” they were silent: “There is a tent in them,” said the boy; “separate them, and you shall find it so;” this being done by the king’s command, there was found in them a folded tent. The boy, going on with his questions, asked the wise men what was in it? But they not knowing what to reply, “There are,” said he, “two serpents, one white and the other red; unfold the tent;” they obeyed, and two sleeping serpents were discovered; “consider attentively,” said the boy, “what they are doing.” The serpents began to struggle with each other; and the white one, raising himself up, threw down the other into the middle of the tent and sometimes drove him to the edge of it; and this was repeated thrice. At length the red one, apparently the weaker of the two, recovering his strength, expelled the white one from the tent; and the latter being pursued through the pool by the red one, disappeared. Then the boy, asking the wise men what was signified by this wonderful omen, and they expressing their ignorance, he said to the king, “I will now unfold to you the meaning of this mystery. The pool is the emblem of this world, and the tent that of your kingdom: the two serpents are two dragons; the red serpent is your dragon, but the white serpent is the dragon of the people who occupy several provinces and districts of Britain, even almost from sea to sea: at length, however, our people shall rise and drive away ;the Saxon race from beyond the sea, whence they originally came; but do you depart from this place, where you are not permitted to erect a citadel; I, to whom fate has allotted this mansion, shall remain here; whilst to you it is incumbent to seek other provinces, where you may build a fortress.” “What is your name?” asked the king; “I am called Ambrose (in British Embresguletic),” returned the boy; and in answer to the king’s question, “What is your origin?” he replied, “A Roman consul was my father.” Then the king assigned him that city, with all the western provinces of Britain; and departing with his wise men to the sinistral district, he arrived in the region named Gueneri, where he build a city which, according to his name was called Cair Guorthegirn.

Damn and I thought it was all the fault of English Speakers !

GW

Venichka:

I think freedom of movement and freedom to migrate whenever one wishes to be fundamentally A Good Thing

In theory, I agree. In practice, it’s not working out so well, particularly in the cultural sphere. Immigration needs seriously rethinking, in my opinion, until we have dealt with the considerable social cohesion problems in (especially) urban Britain and until we have made greater steps towards reducing poverty in Britain, which remains an often relatively hidden but very real disgrace.

We also need a new discourse of nationality which recognises national and cultural identity as always in a state of development (I have no time for fixed essentialist notions of culture), but which also celebrates and embraces national/local traditions (I think of what David T said before about enjoying the ‘Frenchness’ of France, and I agree) and which doesn’t denigrate Western culture(s) and civilisation through a terrible anti-Western narrative masquerading as ‘anti-racism’.

Despite some foaming at the mouth commenters here blasting me as ultra right-wing, UKIP won’t be getting my vote. When I referred to them before as a valid protest vote, I meant valid in comparison to the BNP.

(Again, comparing the Christian Party to the BNP just reveals the implicit anti-Christian prejudices that are pretty rampant in the HP comments threads)

Well, they are campaigning specifically as the vote to ‘beat the BNP’, so it is worth noting the fact that they’re not so progressive themselves. In terms of ‘anti-Christian prejudices’, my ‘prejudices’ (although I don’t think the term very accurate) are towards all systems of belief/politics based on gods, ‘revealed’ texts, and so on.

Next you’ll be telling us that Motorway 2468 is a gay song.

Where’s Morgoth to say that Lucifer ain’t Satan?

BNP got 808,200 votes in the 2004 Euros. Let’s see what they get this time around.

I love the idea of a party being ‘openly mad’.

“I love the idea of a party being ‘openly mad’.”

The reality of openly mad parties isn’t that good though, have you seen the tedious attention seekers in the Monster Raving Loony Party? (Lord Sutch was quite amusing but the rest of them are just tiresome).

Monster Raving Loony Party:

http://www.omrlp.com/

@Ven

Anyone with half a brain, who’s not a Liebour partisan, knows that racism is endemic in that party. Witness Ray Collins recent racist comments regarding all ‘ethnic minority’ shortlists:

My view, and the party’s view, is the law ought to be examined to allow for greater representation from ethnic minorities.

I accept that the BNP is fundamentally racist, but so are Liebour, the unCons. and Lib Dims who, all three, support all female/ethnic minority lists.

There is no excuse for this, or allowing publicly funded bodies constituted along racial lines, such as the NBPA, to continue. Racism is racism – it’s either acceptable or it’s not.

I’d like to read Mr Standing’s comments/take on this.

And as regards your point about anti-Christian prejudice…well, I agree.

I think freedom of movement and freedom to migrate whenever one wishes to be fundamentally A Good Thing

Loopy with bells and whistles.

Having a go at the Welsh Dragon, is nothing sacred.
He had better watch out for the ‘Taffia’, dangerous leek wielding men.

Yes, all women short lists and wanting to improve representation of other minorities is definitely comparable to demanding an all white Britain and denying the Holocaust.

I’m guessing you are a white, man, probably quite old and grumpy, and single, and a bit of a twat.

Yes, all women short lists and wanting to improve representation of other minorities is definitely comparable to demanding an all white Britain and denying the Holocaust.

Yes, they are. So, according to you, one form of discrimination is acceptable, is it? You sound like a bigot to me. Why is it that bigots like you have so little faith in the abilities of fellow human beings to succeed on their own? Personally, if I were Sadiq Khan or Sayeeda Warsi, I’d feel more than a little insulted that I was ’shoe-horned in’ with a social cohesion portfolio…

I’m guessing you are a white, man, probably quite old and grumpy, and single, and a bit of a twat.

Your piss-poor clairvoyancy and punctuation skills aside, you’ll be pleased to know that my wife’s parents are Bangladeshi Muslims.

How about explaining why you think one form of discrimination is acceptable?

Apart from the diatribe against the Welsh flag, there nothing new in this post.

I’ll never see Ivor the Engine in the same way now that I know Idris is evil incarnate.

@Half a Brain

Yes, all women short lists and wanting to improve representation of other minorities is definitely comparable to demanding an all white Britain and denying the Holocaust.

Your straw man is not helpful. However, only one of these is Labour policy and similarly endorsed by the other two main parties.

Do you oppose discrimination in all its guises, then?

I’m guessing you are a white, man, probably quite old and grumpy, and single, and a bit of a twat.

Your piss-poor clairvoyancy and punctuation skills aside, you’ll be pleased to know that my wife’s parents are Bangladeshi Muslims.

He had better watch out for the ‘Taffia’, dangerous leek wielding men.

Wise words, Doc, and compassionate too.

I ought to point out, however, that we in the Cymru Rouge make no distinction on grounds of race, colour, creed, gender, species or level of mortality – classes and glasses are our sole shibboleth.

It follows that our slogan-shrieking hemp-clad phalanxes also feature girl-soldier. The ceremonial Wielding of the Leek by the 15th Women’s Regiment of Death in the Name of Martyr Cerys Matthews is the toast of Region Four (Radnorshire & The Marches).

“Wales has been under demonic oppression and under many curses because of this unwise choice.”

The English clerical-fascist Hargreaves is behind the times. Glenys “Bloody” Kinnock has long been banished from our slate-burnished shores.

And the dragon is just a badly-drawn corgi, the result of the Bilidowcar children’s programme competition to design our national flag.

Under Cymru Rouge rule, the flag will be adorned with a clenched, six-fingered fist punching its way through the top of William Hague’s head.

Henffych!

Paul Pot – Brawd Rhif Un
Huw Samphan – Brawd Rhif Dau
Ta Moc Tudor – Brawd Rhif Tri
Angka Watkin – Chwaer Dim Bwys

(Cymru Rouge Politburo)

National flower named after a mythological polytheist who misused his male lovers. The whole place is going to hell and all those pretty little churches can’t save it.

Be careful chaps, the more you tell people not to do something..

I am getting this urge to vote for the Anti-Dragon Party to annoy you.

(Again, comparing the Christian Party to the BNP just reveals the implicit anti-Christian prejudices that are pretty rampant in the HP comments threads)

How right you are Ven.

In terms of ‘anti-Christian prejudices’, my ‘prejudices’ (although I don’t think the term very accurate) are towards all systems of belief/politics based on gods, ‘revealed’ texts, and so on.

How mealy-mouthed.

As though all systemes of belief based on god and revealed texts were equally repugnant and dangerous.

The Vatican, Edmund, sports an observatory and is crawling with first-rate scholars and academics engaging in first-rate research and hailing from just about all faiths and cultures.

In contrast, one couldn’t so much as find a single bible in Mecca, let alone a scholar.

Yeah I’m starting to wonder if banging on about the bnp is going to reverse psyche people into voting for them. Hmm.
I’ve noticed the green party are angling for the non racist protest vote in their self penned descriptive text to appear on the voting papers. http://www.northwestvotes.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents.php?categoryID=21

Mr Standing is quite correct about Hargreave’s vanity project. Hargreaves won’t gather many votes. The other Christian party, CPA, will get more votes for a slightly more coherent policy structure, which claims to a Christian Democratic tradition, although in reality is somewhat rightist. Other right-wingers standing will be from the English Democrats, another faction from the further right.

As for the Official Monster Raving Looney Party, they lost their way after the sad death of the late Lord Sutch, who was socially liberal and – as he often pointed out – ahead of his time. His initial 1961 candidacy was fought for the Teenage Party on a platform of votes for 18 year olds, abolition of the 11 Plus and legalisation of commercial radio. All of which happened within 15 years. The OMRLP post-Sutch passed to self-publicists and for a while was headed by a vicious homophobe.

A poll in today’s Times predicts the following results for Thursday’s European elections:
Conservatives -30%
Labour -16%
Lib Dems -12%
UKIP – 19%
Greens – 10%
BNP – 5%
I guess the other 8% will go to smaller parties, but certainly these Christian Party people don’t seem to be living in the same century as the rest of us -who on earth would want to waste a vote on people with such outlandish fantasies?

Israelinurse

If that comes to pass, one of the most depressing results in living memory. Absolutely appalling.

Ot: The North West regional returning officer is Sir Howard Bernstein… #7 here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3904813.ece somebody might try make something of it if their lot do less well than expected.

Sorry, scrap that. The most depressing election result in living memory.

Conservatives -30%
Labour -16%
Lib Dems -12%
UKIP – 19%

Wonderful. Let it happen! The complete and utter destruction of British Left. The Guardian classes will go into meltdown if UKIP win 19%.

I have to say, less than a week until the election, and I am yet to see any evidence whatsoever that Labour are even campaigning in these elections. (True, the region I live in they will be lucky to get even one MEP; but in the region I work in they would get several I’d have thought)

UKIP and the Christian Party’s campaigns have been hard to avoid; the former have covered dozens of phone boxes in central london with their purple prose; and have leafletters and stalls in the streets; the Christian Party seem to have bought up large quantities of particularly prominently sited poster spaces, in London as well as in Essex. I’ve seen big one English Democrat poster. And got a proper Tory mailshot delivered. And one bit of Green bumph.

That’s it. Not a jot from Labour, the BNP (apart from adverts on the website of the so-called “local” paper, which thankfully now seem to have stopped), the Lib Dems, whoever else.

Odd. I mean, I’m not surprised that Labour are laying low – they have every reason to; every picture of Brown or Blears is a lost vote! And quite deservedly so!. But still. One would have thought they might pretend to make an effort.

If 5% and 19% of Brits vote for hard (fascist) and soft nationalists respectively, plus 30% Conservative, I am glad I live 6,000 miles way. Although perhaps its not far away enough. FFS.

I have to say, less than a week until the election, and I am yet to see any evidence whatsoever that Labour are even campaigning in these elections. (True, the region I live in they will be lucky to get even one MEP; but in the region I work in they would get several I’d have thought)

UKIP and the Christian Party’s campaigns have been hard to avoid; the former have covered dozens of phone boxes in central london with their purple prose; and have leafletters and stalls in the streets; the Christian Party seem to have bought up large quantities of particularly prominently sited poster spaces, in London as well as in Essex. I’ve seen big one English Democrat poster. And got a proper Tory mailshot delivered. And one bit of Green bumph.

That’s it. Not a jot from Labour, the BNP (apart from adverts on the website of the so-called “local” paper, which thankfully now seem to have stopped), the Lib Dems, whoever else.

Odd. I mean, I’m not surprised that Labour are laying low – they have every reason to; every picture of Brown or Blears is a lost vote! And quite deservedly so! But still. One would have thought they might pretend to make an effort.

Still, its better than the CPC winning everytime isn’t it Benji.

Tory,

So, you happy with such a large numb skull nationalist element on the Right side? I know some Conservatives who are actually intelligent. Where are they going to go when the lunatics over the asylum?

Overall, I think its a strange place for Benji to reside. I mean being so opposed to ’soft’ and ‘hard’ nationalism and everything. The people of this country are not even in the same league as Hong Kong and the P.R.C when it comes to nationalism and racism. Yet you smugly go on about living 6000 miles away from those dirty UKIP voters.

You lefties are going to taught one hell of a lesson come election day.

Still, its better than the CPC winning everytime isn’t it Benji.

Yes, better than that. Although admittedly in Hong Kong the Communist Party is not represented… but there are enough cocksuckers (sorry “shoe shiners” is the more polite term) to do the job.

” I know some Conservatives who are actually intelligent. Where are they going to go when the lunatics over the asylum?”

And what are you contrubuting thats so special eh? Apart from a bleeding postal vote of course. Anyway, your post just convinced me to vote UKIP so thanks.

Tory,

I am seeing the ship sink beneath the waves from afar. It’s a sad business!

Anyway, you sound more bitter than me, old boy….

Is it the high taxes? ;-)

I have lived over there like you. So you wont be fooling anyone here that the kind of views expressed by UKIP are even in the same league as the kind of nationalistic shit you hear everyday.

Wonderful. Let it happen! The complete and utter destruction of British Left. The Guardian classes will go into meltdown if UKIP win 19%.

Unlikely. Some of them will just embrace the fashion for soft nationalism for a bit whilst the rest of us will reflect that we have already lived through 1975 once and did not really expect to see it again.

Where’s Morgoth to say that Lucifer ain’t Satan?

Here.

“Odd. I mean, I’m not surprised that Labour are laying low”

The Labour party has debts of above 12 million and assets of zero. They cannot afford anything.
Expect that the Labour Government will attempt to bring in funding for parties before the next GE; based on MP numbers for preference.
There will be articles about the funding of the Conservatives and UKIP in the next two weeks, with the tradition ‘it’s not fair’ in the Guardian and Independent.

Here in the Midlands I’ve had leaflets from Labour, the Liberals, the Conservatives, the BNP and UKIP. UKIP also delivered a ‘newspaper’ and turned up in person, which no other party has managed so far.

I’m quite surprised to see nothing from the Greens, as they did well here last time.

I do think that a terrible showing for Labour can only be good for the party, and make it realise just how much it needs to change rather than simply relying on its core ‘we hate Tories’ set of voters.

I do hope many people vote for the minor parties. It doesn’t really matter as it won’t be replicated in a general election, but it will cause the big three to change their approach somewhat to try an appeal to these disaffected (but politically active) people.

May Jesus love your Pagan soul, Morgoth.

I read Graham’s post before I saw his name, and knew it was by him.

You’d think the socialist labour party would be well placed but they don’t seem to be bothering this time.

DocMartyn, indeed: I see today’s Guardian has a column (was it by the unvenerable Harriet ex-defender of paedophiles Harperson? I think it was? But my memory is vague) on that very topic.

Complete fucking scum, aren’t they?

(New Labour, not the Guardian)

In 2010, Lucifer was the apt name given to Jupiter when it was transformed by the monoliths into a new star.

But, Graham, in 1975 there was at least a saviour on the horizon, promising to bring discord where there was a fallicious peace, and that, wasn’t there. Whlie Cameron is immeasurably preferable to Michael Howard (Are You Thinking What I’m Thinking? I Bloody Hell Hope Not. and while his two predecessors were less odious, well, let’s say one was promoted above his abilities, and the other was promoted thus prematurely).

Anyway I was born in 1975 so in that way it was a great year for all of you here enjoying my presence.

But, Graham, in 1975 there was at least a saviour on the horizon, promising to bring discord where there was a fallicious peace, and that, wasn’t there.

I’m sure the Tories will find someone else with the ability to wreck the country and entertain dictators without looking too hard.

Now where are my dancing shoes?

I’m sure the Tories will find someone else with the ability to wreck the country and entertain dictators without looking too hard.

You’ll be pleased when Blue Labour get in, of course; another left liberal cabal in all but name.

Best flag in the world: Brazil. Runner up: South Africa.

Most imbecilic PPB of the current campaign: The nutjobs at the Christian Party. Even the kids in your local primary school would have felt that

Labour deserve to be trampled on by UKIP in this election if only to punish the unprincipled lying of Liam Byrne when trying to change Labour’s image on immigration. Byrne is an extremely dangerous character who should not be at a senior level in politics.

So Graham, what is the plan for you raciest, leftist bastards after you lose on a massive scale?
Let me guess, it was all the fault of the Jewish Media and the Jewish Bankers. The only way to end the civil strife is to get rid of them and then there will be social justice and you socialists can form a red/geen alliance with the Muslims. Some sort of super-RESPECT?

Someone should remind Mr Hargreaves about what Revelation 12:3 actually says “Then another sign appeared in the sky: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on its heads.” Welsh or not, that would make for a bloody odd-looking flag, if you ask me.

You’ll be delighted to know some bloke has graded the flags of the world on artistic merit and originality like a sarky art teacher http://www.otago.ac.nz/philosophy/Staff/JoshParsons/flags/alpha.html
What’s that on Bhutan’s flag btw. And can anyone see St whatsit and the grendines flag without thinking of wolverhampton wanderers?

Jon D –

A lot of threads have made me angry on this site but nothing quite as much as that reference you give!

Who is the annoyingly named “Josh” Parson to give Brazil the least points at 35 compared to Somalia original effort (a star on a colour field! – that’s IRONY folks) 86 or something.

Grrrrrr!!!!!!

Brazil’s flag is brilliant in all sorts of ways – colour, angles, universality, sloganising. Ordem and progreso!

So Graham, what is the plan for you raciest, leftist bastards after you lose on a massive scale?

If you mean when the party I’m not a member of loses -to go down the pub probably.

Let me guess, it was all the fault of the Jewish Media and the Jewish Bankers.

Don’t you realise that I am in their pay already?

The only way to end the civil strife is to get rid of them and then there will be social justice and you socialists can form a red/geen alliance with the Muslims. Some sort of super-RESPECT?

You have the beginnings of a good novel there I’ll give you that but it has absolutely no connection with anything that I have ever said or believed lol!

“(as I think freedom of movement and freedom to migrate whenever one wishes to be fundamentally A Good Thing)”

I guess I’m crashing at Venichka’s house for a few weeks next time I’m in the region.

A friend of mine came back from Wales with a proud selection of dragon photos. Maybe she is a demoness – and I’m going to have coffee with her this morning!

One of the happiest times in my life was a holiday spent in Wales. Though there were quite a few village idiots about, due, apparently to a great deal of inter-family marriages in that particular community.

Hear hear Mr Standing.

Please keep up the good work of exposing the hidden agendas of two otherwise completely mainstream parties that were are so close to a landslide victory.

Its reassuring to know that someone takes the trouble to provide us poor hysterical dears with a list of permissable vs beyond the pale parties, without in any way endorsing the permmissable parties.

He provides a necessary service for those of us who may forget to take our medication on polling day.

I hope he can also provide a similar simple detection system for the openly mad or bad parties for those of us who are also prone to forget our spectacles.

Perhaps a simple check of party name length in reference to the space they take up alongside a horizontally placed thumb would work?

Oh dear but then whose thumb would be the standard against which to measure the parties?

Oh I get so confused, but I bet Mr Standing can tell us because he has an objective thumb, thats for sure.

Felix (Italy) @ 31 May 2009, 7:04 am

” in Wales. Though there were quite a few village idiots about”

Weekend cottage owners, probably from Buckinghamshire.

OT, I’ve gotten used to pop stars younger than me, footballers younger than me, and doctors younger than me. (Than I?) But intelligent blog commenters I’ve been reading for half a decade? Younger than I?