Harry's Place

In the liberal-left dialectic “human rights” only applies to Western states – this is why the likes of Pickled Politics are treat the SL crisis with relative sobriety while Sunny met the Israel/Hamas conflict with near-hysteria. I don’t believe it is anti-semitism on his part – rather simple racism: non-Western states are simply not judged the same way. Sunny (and the liberal-left) considers Israel a Western state. This is why they are so forgiving of totalitarian 2nd and 3rd world regimes – because they are basically lesser, breeds beyond the law.

In the liberal-left dialectic “human rights” only applies to Western states – this is why the likes of Pickled Politics treat the SL crisis with relative sobriety while Sunny met the Israel/Hamas conflict with near-hysteria. I don’t believe it is anti-semitism on his part – rather simple racism: non-Western states are simply not judged the same way. Sunny (and the liberal-left) considers Israel a Western state. This is why they are so forgiving of totalitarian 2nd and 3rd world regimes – because they are basically lesser, breeds beyond the law.

How come there was never any call for an investigation into the human rights violations of the thousands killed in Iraq after US led coalition started a war over non-existent weapons of mass destruction?

Human rights lawyerGeoffrey Robertson QC was interviewed on radio and concedes that as the UNHRC was a highly politicised body with Europe only allocated 7 seats and russia and china wanting to avoid exposure of their own internal problems, the decision was not really surprising. Sri Lanka itslef was a member of the HRC despite efforts of Tutu and Carter to stop them.
He then went on to mention other possible fora to bring Sri Lanka to account, but this only makes more pertinent the question, what is the point of the UNHRC.

He mentioned the Human Rights Committee (as distinct from the aforementioned Council) which he described as a kind of court and that as Sri Lanka has signed up to the International Convention on Human Rights, there could be a complaint against them there. Complaints could also be brought (not sure in which forum) ito the Convention on the Rights of the Child or the Genocide convention. He didn’t comment on whether bringing such charges might also be thwarted by political means.

Tutu made a statement this weekend regarding An Sang su Ki, that maybe this was an appropriate occasion for the responsibility to protect principle to be acitivated and armed forces to be deployed to rescue her. These are ridiculous ramblings, idosyncratic when there greater humanitarian disasters justifiying intervention whether in Burma or elsewhere, than the plight of one woman so that this would be ludicrously disproportianate, but it is darkly amusing to see Tutu suddenly sounding like a more gung ho neocon than Richard Perle.

This is disgusting!

How on earth do they have the time to do this when they should be condemning Israel!

Can anyone give any sensible reasons what is going on here

Simple really.

The double standard in relation to the Sri Lankan civil war is a caustic cocktail of the racism of low expectation for brown people, the absence of an opportunity for leftist and liberal self flagellating self hatred, the absence of an opportunity for envious 3rd worlders to have a pop at a Western country – Especially America or Israel, the absence of opportunity for manifesting barely concealed Jew hatred and of course the absence of opportunity to get into a frothing paroxysm of Muslim ’solidarity’.

When can we expect the Carol Churchill play Seven Sinhalese Children? (Never, obviously.)

Hypocritical scum at the UNHRC but no surprise whatsoever.

How does bleeting about shi-lanka help destroy Israel? thats the real question the IOC asking itself. And the western diplomats are happy to not be preasured by them.

All the barage and stage show over cast lead is now shown up to be what it was, and so is the non reaction of whats happened in Pakistan by Islamic leaders. When Greet Wilders points out Islamic doctrine there is hell to pay, but when an islamic scholar quotes the same thing to incide muslims, not a peep, This is a double standard spread all over history.

Have Burma and the People’s Democratic Republic of Korea been voted onto the UN Human Rights Council yet? I’m sure they would be a most welcome addition. I think it’s time the nations of the West realised that there is more than one perception of the concept of human rights. Countries such as Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Sudan, Iran, Egypt and the like have a lot to teach us in this respect, if only we would get off our moral high horse and try to follow some of the examples set by these paragons of human rights.

Irony aside, the UN Human Rights Council is now composed of mainly spiteful anti-Western anti-Israeli self-righteous “turd-world” tyrannies.

the UN is in danger of losing all moral authority ?

In danger of losing? Are you joking?

The UN posses a measure of legal authority, but that is it.

The simple and correct explanation: Arab antisemitism and Arab alliances with other Third World countries and First world countries in need of oil, who in turn demand protection in UN votes.

Result: Israel is always accused and third world countries with deals with Arab countries have always carte blanche.

Yes, but Israel also supported this decision. Why didn’t you mention that?

do we just have to put up with the fact that many non-Western countries are totally cynical about human rights

Also the fact that most European countries are almost as cynical

and the UN is in danger of losing all moral authority ?

It’s news to me that it has any moral authority left.

Lofgren – well Israel’s govt was wrong then. Just like they are also wrong on West Bank settlements (for example).

Yes, but Israel also supported this decision. Why didn’t you mention that?

What in the world are you talking about?

“Yes, but Israel also supported this decision. Why didn’t you mention that?”

Maybe because it isn’t true?

Israel is not part of the 47-member UNHRC.

Though the US has now joined for the first time.

Well then lofgren – what were you on about ?

“China, India, Egypt and Cuba were among the 29 developing countries that backed a Sri Lankan-proposed resolution”

Now the question is, why didn’t lofgren ask you about any of the 25 other countries that actually did support the resolution? Do think this person might have an unhealthy obsession with a particular country?

Sorry, I had read a Times leader that said Israel did and was surprised. I’ve looked around and found Israel didn’t.

One thing that is really depressing is that India voted against a Sri Lanka war crimes investigation but for one re Israel in Gaza.

Does anyone have any ideas why ? Does India just always support Sri Lanka ?

Yes, but Israel also supported this decision. Why didn’t you mention that?

The Times leader on 29/05/2009 wrongly said they did:

It was sad to see Israel, for obvious political motives, joining in this charade, claiming that massacres, violence, repression and internment are an “internal affair”.

…but subsequently removed that line from the online version and published a correction:

“Israel is not a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council and did not take part in the council’s vote on the actions of the Sri Lamkan Government (leading article, May 29). We apologise for the error.”

The UNHRC press release only quotes one country using the term “internal affair” and that was Egypt:

The African Group thought that the conflict in Sri Lanka was an internal affair in which a sovereign Government did its best to fulfil its duty towards its citizens and took measures necessary to fight a militia that was universally recognized as a terrorist group.

See also Amnesty International Press Release:

‘The Human Rights Council established a fact-finding mission which will now look at violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by both sides in Gaza. By not establishing a similar fact-finding mission for Sri Lanka, the Human Rights Council has demonstrated deplorable selectivity and double standards.’

The UNHRC has now reached far greater depths than the UNHCHR when Kofi Annan dissolved it. We are getting close to League of Nations territory now, this failed dismally when it was needed most. This was because a large and powerful bloc (the Axis powers) chose to use it solely to promote their own ruthless agenda until the sham could no longer be maintained.

Only dissolution of the HRC without replacement will work now, because it is dragging down the whole UN project, letting down many hard working people in the Agencies with little recognition. Many in the West are looking at the UN and seeing a self serving undemocratic bureaucracy, funded by us, but controlled by thugs and freeloaders.

Tutu is particularly disappointing, and seems to have let his racial prejudices overcome his moral judgement. His opinion on such matters is now worthless, a tragic epitaph for an essentially good man.

Besides the issue of the wrong attribution by The Times.

The question is why what does or doesn’t do or say Israel regarding the decision about Sri Lanka is important? There are 192 countries in the world!!!!

I have two hypothesis:

1. The obsessive fixation of antisemites, looking for moments where the Jews falter.

2. The fact that, just as God said, the nations of the world look up to Jerusalem to see what the Jews do, to learn from them. We are a light unto the nations.

None of these explanations would satisfy an antisemite. But I like the second because it pisses them off a lot.

The Times leader on 29/05/2009 wrongly said they did:

Amazing. Probably they made it up to sell a few more papers.

Thanks for posting that dtmar and clearing that up. I had been stunned to see it and am glad to discover it wasn’t true. For the record, I didn’t post it out of anti-semitic impulses but out of the mistaken belief it was somewhat important to the thesis of the OP. Apologies.

“Now the Times also has an article claiming that up to 20,000
civilians may have been massacred by the govt forces.”

Actually the Times does not have an article claiming any civilians were massacred. They have one claiming that up to 20,000 people have been killed mostly by heavy weaponry, that is artillery. Which is to say, no massacre.

As for the main point, of course the UN is no better than its members. Most of whom are scum. 120 scumbags do not suddenly become Mahatma Gandhi because they are in a group.

The Times leader on 29/05/2009 wrongly said they did:

Amazing. Probably it sounded good and they couldn’t be bothered checking.

It is ok, logfren.
My barb was directed more at the Times than at you.
Your comment was understandable, since the comparison was the subject of thist post.
But it is completely stunning in The Times.

Sri Lanka?

A mere 20,000 very dark people died in hideous circumstances at the hands of very dark people.

Who cares?

Now, if whiter [Israeli] people had killed a mere 2,000 or even 200 fairly-brownish [Palestinian] people under similar circumstances, every pundit on the planet would be screaming blue bloody murder.

The moral: when one lot of wogs kills another lot of wogs, few outsiders care or even notice.

In fact, it was only by chance that anyone ever heard of Mr Bhutto – remember him? – using his American-supplied helicopter gunships to slaughter Baluchis from the air.

As James Baker would have said, nobody had a dog in that fight. In fact, if there’s a Baluchistan Solidarity Campaign, they’re not real good at campaigning, are they?

By contrast, the overseas supporters of the LTTE in London and Toronto can lay on quite a show when it’s far too late to attract much worthwhile public sympathy.

“The west” doesn’t provide support to Sri Lanka, in fact they cut them off. The west does provide support to Israel. Hence we should be more concerned about what Israel does with our money than was Sri Lanka does with theirs.

Nonetheless Sri Lanka should have been a bigger story. I think it proves, sadly, that restricting the press works.

Amazing. Probably it sounded good and they couldn’t be bothered checking.

I blame those notorious jew haters, Finkelstein and Kamm.

Mr Danger – “The west” doesn’t provide support to Sri Lanka, in fact they cut them off.

Do you have any links re that, all I can find is the US suspending military exports in January, but it appears that the UK is still sending humanitarian aid to the government.

““The west” doesn’t provide support to Sri Lanka, in fact they cut them off. ”

The “west” send a lot of aid to Sri Lanks after the Tsunami.

It is completely out of the question that the Times editorial writers could have thought Israel is a member of the UNHRC. So this was indeed a very very interesting “mistake”…
BTW, the US will take its seat only on June 12.

And, last but not least: the war crimes probe ordered by the same UN Human Rights Council that congratulated Sri Lanka on its “victory” over the LTTE has begun today to collect material in Gaza.

Don’t be too harsh on lofgren.

A. This is now the official line coming from the SWP Politburo.

B. He was tricked that rich Zionist Murdoch.

Either way, Cui Bono? eh? eh?

Cheers, Fabian.

UN is in danger of losing all moral authority ?

You mean with some of the more moderate anti-Zionist crowd, since it lost all authority – moral or otherwise – with anyone vaguely supportive of Israel years ago.

As for this vote, clearly for the anti-Zionist nations it’s important that there is only one villain, Israel. For the non-anti-Zionist nations, oil is important and it’s primarily from the anti-Zionist nations that it comes from.

I never thought I’d say this, but it looks like Bolton was right.

Meanwhile, back in Gaza, “UN team arrives in Gaza for war crimes probe” http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1089537.html

It was sad to see Israel, for obvious political motives, joining in this charade, claiming that massacres, violence, repression and internment are an “internal affair”.

Absolutely astounding that the Times should have invented (or accepted from some other source without checking) this blatant lie designed to discredit Israel and then just remove it with an apology but without bothering to explain how it came to print this lie in the first place.

Finkelstein and Kamm are among the leader-writers on The Times. Doesn’ t necessarily mean that either of them played any part in the writing of this leader. What really interests me is where the leader writer involved got the information from and why it wasn’t checked before publication.

Interestingly, Norman Geras initially chose to use Israel’s supposed support as a peg on which to hang some extended deploring of the supposed politics of Israel’s government, although he did commendably comment on the lack of sources other than the Times. He subsequently updated his post to report the Times apology. His post condemning Israel for something it never did still remains in place, albeit with the apologetics at the end.

I haven’t see any discussion at all of the stance taken by Peter Gooderham the UK member on the UNHRC– he’s the same man who took part in the charade where Ahmadinejad was allowed to address Durban II. He was one of the EU group who theatrically walked out when Ahmadinejad spoke, then went right back in to go on participating in a conference dedicated to continuing and extending the anti-Israel lawfare and boycott-divestment-sanctions campaigns against Israel.

I tried to listen to the webcast of Israel’s intervention (speech) which it made as an observer in this debate, but couldn’t access it. I thought it was because I always have trouble with the UNHRC webcasts with Linux. I can usually only listen to the whole undivided session and not the selected bits, but this time I can’t seem to access it any way at all. I sent the link to normblog as he also posted on the Times report, and norm says he also can’t open it.
It usually works with microsoft.

Can anyone here listen to the 3 minute speech and report back? Scroll down the page till you get to Israel under the observer speeches.

I tried to listen to the webcast of Israel’s intervention (speech) which it made as an observer in this debate, but couldn’t access it. I thought it was because I always have trouble with the UNHRC webcasts with Linux. I can usually only listen to the whole undivided session and not the selected bits, but this time I can’t seem to access it any way at all. I sent the link to normblog as he also posted on the Times report, and norm says he also can’t open it.
It usually works with microsoft.

Can anyone here listen to the 3 minute speech and report back? Scroll down the page till you get to Israel under the observer speeches.

http://www.un.org/webcast/unhrc/archive.asp?go=0111

oh for godssake. I have 2 attempts at this in the mod queue. is it because of repeat posting? I am trying to post the link to the Israel contribution to the debate as observer which I can’t access. I am asking anyone who can access to post. Scroll down to the observer interventions till you get to Israel’s 3 minute speech:
http://www.un.org/webcast/unhrc/archive.asp?go=0111

So, Syria is now not the only state successfully to crush an insurgency with pure military force.

I’ll go out on a limb here and say that, although I would have been disappointed, I would not have been too surprised or condemnatory had Israel endorsed this ruling. She does have her own insurgency to deal with and, as with normalizing relations of a sort with South Africa after that paragon of racial harmony, Idi Amin, led newly independent states to reject offers of Israeli funding, I could have seen it as a big fuck you to the world.

Why should we expect higher standards from Israel than other cases of real politik?

Do you have any links re that, all I can find is the US suspending military exports in January, but it appears that the UK is still sending humanitarian aid to the government.

Those are the ones I read too. In this case I don’t think the small amount of humanitarian aid counts as regime support.

The “west” send a lot of aid to Sri Lanks after the Tsunami.

So?

Just a point re: moderation. Should HP be allowing morons like Rockall666 to use words like ‘wog’? There’s no need for that whatsoever, and it just allows that mentalist Will from the Drink Soaked Trots to tar us all with the same brush.

…the UN is in danger of losing all moral authority ?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[wipes brow]
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[falls down]

The way it works now, is that everyone who’s morals are entirely fraudulent, has nothing but respect for the UN. That’s way it always will be. Fakes, posers, ignorant imbeciles who love propaganda worship frauds like the HRC.

sackcloth and ashes I stopped reading DST because they ban and delete rather than argue, always. Does anyone still read them?

“I blame those notorious jew haters, Finkelstein and Kamm.”

- I was responding to Ohad by paraphrasing his words. The editorial doesn’t have a byeline as far as I can see, but the other pieces are attributed to Catherine Philp in Colombo..

Not saying every journalist at the Times is sloppy; but these really are things that journalists shouldn’t be getting wrong. After all, some people still believe what they read in the papers.

The HRC resolution can be read here:

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/11/index.htm

Israel did not participate in it. The UK opposed it. I would tend to the view that this is an appalling judgement which let’s the Sri Lankan government off the hook entirely.

amie, there’s a press release with a summary here but no transcript AFAICS grrr…

I’ve only skimmed the audio, but the relevant bit seems to be:

…we recognise the legitimate right of the Sri Lankan government to combat terrorism but we must also express deep concern at the alleged violations of international humanitarian law and human rights; an element that has so far been loudly absent from the international dialogue on the HR situation in Sri Lanka.

In this regard, we trust the Sri Lankan government will conduct a fair and independent investigation into alleged violations committed by both parties during the conflict. [...]

Let me remind this council, we have a duty as the HRC to ensure all HR concerns are addressed across the board regardless of political agenda…

Perhaps the Times (though why should I be) misread this preliminary report from the HCR, where it is reported that:

AHARON LESHNO-YAAR (Israel) noted Israel’s close cooperation and longstanding relations with the Government of Sri Lanka. Both countries had worked closely together on a variety of issues. The conflict in the country had been long-lasting. There had been tens of thousands of civilian casualties. They were here today, not to condemn the Government of Sri Lanka, but rather, in the spirit of transparency and international dialogue, to constructively and effectively address a human rights situation of serious concern. The Security Council itself had strongly condemned the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam for its acts of terrorism and use of human shields. But they also had to express deep concern at the alleged violations of international humanitarian law and human rights. In this regard, Israel trusted that the Sri Lankan Government would conduct a fair and independent investigation into alleged violations committed by both parties during the conflict.

Israel had also closely followed the sincere efforts of the European Union and other democratic partners in convening this Special Session. It had been a difficult process, sometimes seemingly hopeless. Those genuine attempts had been encountered by destructive ones of those who sought to manipulate and politicize the Council’s agenda.

I blame all Jews, everywhere. Now where is my icecream cone?

Israel will obviously have a measure of sympathy with the Sri Lankan government’s predicament: the LTTE was a vicious terrorist organization that was responsible for tens of thousands of deaths; it was them who “pioneered” suicide belts and women suicide bombers; and they financed their terror activities with ruthless criminal activities. So not that different from Israel’s situation with Hamas, the Sri Lankan government had reason to feel that it was a question of “either them or us”. At the same time, the Tamil civilians are of course also Sri Lankan citizens; and a death toll of over 20 000, together with the refusal to now give international aid organizations access to the camps, clearly points to complete recklessness.
But all that is beyond the point when it comes to the UN Human Rights Council because plainly, if they see a need to investigate the death of about 1200 Gazans (including about 700 combatants) it is cynicism on a truly disgusting scale to congratulate Sri Lanka for winning a “victory” at the cost of more than 20 000 civilians.
In the blogpost I wrote about it, I argued that this really confirms once again that for the UN, a person’s human rights depend on who can be blamed for violating them.

Hmm- the tone of the Israel intervention as described by dtmar of the audio is slightly strnger than the summary. I wish I could hear the original.
But as PetraMB says, that is not the issue. To repeat the old cliche of double standards does not sufficiently describe this- “cynicism on a truly disgusting scale” is somewhere in the right direction.

The votes on the Sri Lankan Resolution followed almost exactly the same pattern as for those on other outrageous resolutions, including last year’s OIC-sponsored one on defamation of religion.

The HRC votes on the Sri Lankan Resolution were cast as follows:

In favour (29): Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Madagascar, Malaysia, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa, Uruguay, and Zambia.

Against (12): Bosnia and Herzegovina, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Italy, Mexico, Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, and United Kingdom.

Abstentions (6): Argentina, Gabon, Japan, Mauritius, Republic of Korea, and Ukraine.

Compare this with the votes on the defamation of religion resolution:

In favour (21):Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, Malaysia, Mali, Nicaragua, Nigeria, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Against (10):Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Romania, Slovenia, Switzerland, Ukraine and United Kingdom.

Abstentions (14):Bolivia, Brazil, Gabon, Ghana, Guatemala, India, Japan, Madagascar, Mauritius, Mexico, Peru, Republic of Korea, Uruguay and Zambia.

See the pattern? On the Sri Lankan Resolution, the African nations yet again linked up with the Islamic states and the dictatorships, just as they have on every other resolution that has opposed human rights and supported those who deny them.

Before the vote on the Sri Lankan Resolution, Germany, on behalf of the EU and the majority of the democratic states, proposed a number of oral amendments to the Resolution (including, among other things, a call for Sri Lanka to provide unhindered access to humanitarian assistance and the setting up of a full investigation into human rights abuses, something which had been in the original Draft Resolution but had been dropped in the final version put forward for the vote.)

In response, the Cuban delegate made a request to take no-action on these amendments, which was put to the vote and passed by… yep, you’ve guessed it:

In favour (22): Angola, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bolivia, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, China, Cuba, Djibouti, Egypt, Ghana, India, Indonesia, Madagascar, Malaysia, Nicaragua, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, and South Africa.

Against (17): Argentina, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Canada, Chile, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Mauritius, Mexico, Netherlands, Republic of Korea, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland, United Kingdom, and Uruguay.

Abstentions (7): Azerbaijan, Brazil, Gabon, Nigeria, Senegal, Ukraine, and Zambia.

The Human Rights Council is an abomination. Due to the rules governing its make-up, it seats are filled with representatives from countries where the concept of human rights is regarded as a bizarre Western fetish.

What is worse, there appears to be a definite alliance between the Islamic states, the African nations and the dictatorships, to always support each other against the Western states, regardless of the issue being decided. The size of this bloc – it works out to 25 of the 47 current member states – means that it cannot be defeated.

(Although other factors will have been at play on the Sri Lanka vote. Some of those who voted in favour have breakaway rebels in regions of their own countries to whom they would not wish to see human rights extended).

Personally, I cannot see the UN changing. The makeup of the General Assembly and most of its councils favours the despots, anti-democrats and counter-liberals, simply because such countries outnumber the liberal democracies of this world. Nothing can alter that fact. Unless the UN is heavily reformed – and its regional groupings are the best target for this – then the HRC will continue to deliver resolutions that are in direct opposition to its purpose.

Amie, you wrote:

“Can anyone here listen to the 3 minute speech and report back? Scroll down the page till you get to Israel under the observer speeches.”

I was going to say use VLC, but I see that the UN uses real media, and packets are streamed out, so picking a particular time within the stream is harder. It might be that under XP or Vista that the Real Player allows the selection of a particular time, I forget.

It is possible to view the whole session by pasting the URL into Konquerer, it probably means that the genuine Real Player has a few more bells and whistles.

If the use of real audio is important to you, then it might be best to install Real Player 10 under Wine, it seems to work well from the apps page http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=180

’sackcloth and ashes I stopped reading DST because they ban and delete rather than argue, always. Does anyone still read them?’

I honestly don’t know. I have a peek occasionally, because one of the Canadian posters sometimes puts up something good, but now (thanks to that maniac Will) the whole site looks like something typed out by a tramp with tourettes. A lot can happen to a website in four years.

What moral authority would that be then?

The UN is a waste of space on the planet earth. It has reached a stage where it only matters to those seeking career enhancement within it’s own organisations.

It can’t stop genocidal dictators, and in many cases doesn’t even try.

It can’t stop rogue states going nuclear.

It can’t stop conventional wars, or civil wars. It can’t even prevent it’s own peace-keepers and refugee workers from abusing children in conflict zones.

The UN has allowed itself to become a comfort blanket for the most perverse and cruel tyrannies in the world. And now it does no good in the world, and in some cases considerable harm. It will never fulfill it’s potential, because it is based on the concept of a fundamental worldwide consensus about decency, legality, and humanity. There is no such consensus.

We would be better off disbanding it, and stop kidding ourselves. Accept the fact that we live in a dangerous, unpredictable, dog-eat-dog world. And take the necessary measures as nations, to keep the wolf from the door.

Amie,

The free version of Real Audo 10.5 works well under Wine, see http://forms.real.com/real/player/blackjack.html?platform2=Windows%20NT4.0%20/%2098%20/%20ME%20/%20XP%20/%202000&product=RealPlayer%2010.5&proc=pent&lang=en&show_list=0 and http://www.winehq.org/

Listening to the session (and the real version allows the time selection without problems) the Israeli rep, basically said:

“Israel has worked with the Gov. of Sri Lanka in the past, the conflict has gone on for 25 years, resulting in 10 of 1,000s of civilians causalities, and 1000s of refugees. We support the 13th of May statement. There is the need to combat terrorism but express deep concern at the alleged violation of humanitarian laws. Need for a rapid response by the International Community, Israel is sending medical supplies in 2 weeks…”

There was a lot more, and mine is a very shortened version, it was all very diplomatic and political.

Time to support the right of the Sri Lankan Tamils to national self-determination; after this disgraceful HRC vote, now more than ever.

The solution

Israel should change its name to

The Middle Eastern Republic of Democratic Judaism

The current Pakistan army offensive in Swat is also worthy of attention. There have been few, if any, civilian casualties announced and no international pressure whatsoever on the Pakistani government with regard to civilian casualties.

We are left to believe that the Pakistan army has some wonderful ability to pick out Taliban fighters from innocent civilians and to deal with them accordingly.

It’s just another version of the same double standards nonsense we have in Sri Lanka.

The current Pakistan army offensive in Swat is also worthy of attention. There have been few, if any, civilian casualties announced and no international pressure whatsoever on the Pakistani government with regard to civilian casualties.

We are left to believe that the Pakistan army has some wonderful ability to pick out Taliban fighters from innocent civilians and to deal with them accordingly.

It’s just another version of the same double standards nonsense we have in Sri Lanka.

HP admins, please could you check the moderation queue, ta

The fact that UNHRC does noithing is not a surprise. Why do you think that all of the governments fund the UN? To use it as a scape goat when needed. The UN are quite happy to be paid well to do nothing and take the balme and go on. Its not a shirt of their back.The UN secretary General and Nambiar should shoulder the balme and resign for there blatant conflit of interest and for the suffering of the tamil people. The two of them have single handedly killed 20,000 people and the world still supports the UN. What a shame.

One thing that is really depressing is that India voted against a Sri Lanka war crimes investigation but for one re Israel in Gaza.

Does anyone have any ideas why ? Does India just always support Sri Lanka ?

Because India are extemely alarmed at Sri Lanka’s close ties with Pakistan. And even more so of the China-Sri Lanka ties – China has given Sri Lanka several BILLIONS in aid over the last 2 years. And in return China are building a naval base in the south of Sri Lanka. Without China’s help the war against the Tigers would have taken a lot longer to win.

So India simply wants to keep on good terms with Sri Lanka since isolating them would push Sri Lanka closer to Pakistan and China.

modernityblog- ta for the tech advice- will pursue those options.
I posted here last year after the 7th session that maybe it was worth keeping up the UNHRC as I saw it doing some good low key work in small committees but since then my perception of the cost benefit has altered steadily downwards- and after the confirmation of the religious defamation resolution and now this- end of road.

After reading Ed Husain’s book and a few other things about political Islam, I think I have come to understand this. Israel is in no way the cause of political Islam any more than the invasion of Iraq is. Like Bosnia, they are just cult recruiting tools. We were on their side in Bosnia, but that didn’t stop the horrible recruitment propaganda about non-Muslims killing Muslims from being used to recruit innocent idealistic people into a destructive cult.

So Much For Subtlety
1 June 2009, 10:37 am

120 scumbags do not suddenly become Mahatma Gandhi because they are in a group.

Given Gandhi’s opinion that the Jews of Europe should limit their opposition to extermination by the Nazis to non-violent means and view their deaths as a form of protest, I’m not terribly sorry that there aren’t more leaders of Gandhi’s ilk.

‘the whole site looks like something typed out by a tramp with tourettes’

I couldn’t have put it better myself…

Marko Attila Hoare
1 June 2009, 3:24 pm

Time to support the right of the Sri Lankan Tamils to national self-determination; after this disgraceful HRC vote, now more than ever.
————-

Being slaughtered and persecuted, doesn’t make you right, and it doesn’t make your cause right. It makes your adversary’s methods illegal. It makes his leaders criminals. But so were the leaders and operatives of LTTE. They too have been pitiless, vicious and inhuman, inflicting death and destruction at random, and to the best of my knowledge, resorting to violence first.

if you have lived in srilanka even for few days before ending of terrorism most probably these comments would be different.Srilankan government has every right to impose law and order in country and it has done so in an exemplery manner.Definitly there were no violations in human rights and if any commission is needed that should be promptly sent to iraq

‘This was because a large and powerful bloc (the Axis powers) chose to use it solely to promote their own ruthless agenda until the sham could no longer be maintained’ – Examples?

Germany left immediately on Hitler’s ascent to power and Japan the same year (1933). Of the Axis powers, an alliance that didn’t come into forth till late 1936, only Italy stayed past 1933 till late 1935.

The League was a joke because it lacked both the largest industrial power on Earth and till 1934, the largest Nation on Earth. Its two leading lights were simultaneously Liberal governments seeking peaceful arbitration and Imperial powers primarily concerned with the stabiltity of their possession. After 1933 and Manchuria, even the UK and France returned openly to secret diplomacy and then the league and its mechanisms lacked even their support

The moral mission of the UN is akin to deciding what to do with an failing orthanage amongst 192 cannibals.

“…the UN is in danger (my emphasis) of losing all moral authority”?
The UN lost all moral authority a long time ago, specifically in 1975 with that Zionism is Racism smear resolution. The UN is only good as some sort of international debating forum and as relief and technicla assistance agencies. Otherwise it is totally useless and should be treated with contempt.

The Tamil Tigers may be a nasty lot. And the tactics used by the other side against the civilian Tamil population may also be repellent.

But the real story from Sri Lanka is just how far you can go if you have, as the Sri Lankan government has, the political, economic, diplomatic and military support of the hyperpower.

That hyperpower is not America, which can no longer provide quite this sort of cover.

That hyperpower is China.

Just for fun, ask any hater of Israel what he/she think of the latest development by the UNHRC. Whether tens of thousands of Sri Lankan civilians deserve human rights and should expect human rights commissions to stand up for these victims. Expect silence at best.

Then move onto the selective manner in which the media, Amnesty Int’l and Human Rights Watch covers Hamas violations of Palestinian human rights (in the form of human shields / storing and firing weapons from or near homes, schools, mosques, and hospitals, using child combatants, sending women and children to IAF targeted rooftops, etc.).

Ask if your favorite Israel hater has a problem with the above groups selectivity and double-standards, when it comes to protecting the human rights of Palestinians against their Hamas masters.

Expect more silence – cue the crickets.

Anyway, it’s the quickest way to expose the ‘harsh critics’ of Israel for the haters that they are. Anyone professing to “care” for Palestinians should be disgusted by the media, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and the UNHRC.

Don’t be surprised by the all-too-predictable reactions (silence) of the harshest critics of Israel who claim to “care” about Palestinians.

Petra,

a death toll of over 20 000, together with the refusal to now give international aid organizations access to the camps, clearly points to complete recklessness

It does no such thing. The numbers involved on all sides were quite large, and we don’t have enough information. Jumping to conclusions and using extreme and categorical language like this is unhelpful.

‘But the real story from Sri Lanka is just how far you can go if you have, as the Sri Lankan government has, the political, economic, diplomatic and military support of the hyperpower.

That hyperpower is not America, which can no longer provide quite this sort of cover.

That hyperpower is China.’

Yeah, David, that’s fantastic. Exactly when are the PLAN going to be able to put a carrier battle group in the Med, or the Atlantic? I hope their sakes they have more joy with power projection than the British Peoples Alliance has with recruiting councillors.

Mettaculture.

I really like that title.

You made me laugh. Very coolish

I refer you all to my Honorable Friend, Dr Dayan Jayatilleke, Sri Lanka’s point man in Geneva explain why the West and the utterly hypocritical UK got a deserved bitch slapping at the recent UNHCR meeting.

http://tinyurl.com/mckmbl

“… It [Geneva] was the defeat of a powerful bloc of forces: the foreign affairs apparatuses of the European Union (driven by several Western European states), the Western dominated international media, the amply endowed international NGOs, the pro-Tiger Tamil Diaspora, anti-Sri Lankan elements within the UN system, and a residual political fifth column within Sri Lanka itself.

The nation saw who our true friends were and who the friends of our separatist terrorist enemy were. Sri Lanka saw and heard hypocrisy at work in world affairs. It also saw and heard fairness, friendship and solidarity.”

Understand also why Human Rights-tards are so despised in SL; because many actively assisted the LTTE with cash, weapons and technical assistance, thus prolonging Sri Lanka’s agony. Details are being released as the LTTE’s records yield their dirty little secrets.

http://tinyurl.com/kqeezo
and
http://tinyurl.com/mfjfnm

Having spent 20 years as a diplomat, I have maintained for a long time that the UN has no real value at all, being simply a talking shop for governments, very few of whom genuinely represent their people. The idea that all “countries” are equal, and that what “countries” think or say is in any way a valid representation of the interests of the peoples of the world, is simply ridiculous. No dictatorship has any other purpose except staying in power for as long as possible, and so of course they easily arrive at an alliance of interests – “Tyranny International” as I have always called it. The whole thing is worthless, and John Bolton was absolutely right to say so. Fortunately the few democratic states with a sense of responsibility don’t listen to them any more and never will again.

I wonder what got that one into the moderation queue….

‘the UN is in danger of losing all moral authority’
I would go even a little further back than David All and say that the UN lost any moral authority it might have had the day it allowed Yasser Arafat to walk into its NY building with a pistol in his holster.

It should be pointed out that the Tamil Tigers were responsable for thousands of the dead civilians either by killing them or by using them as Human shields against the Sri Lankan military.

why doesnt anybody talk about the killings of millions of civilians by the US army in iraq,afghanistan and vietnam? are they pure war crimes? how you justify them?? The conflict in SL is completely different. LTTE is a well identified terrorist which is banned in more than 30 countries including some of those countries who voted against SL too. when SL government manages to wipe them off these so called anti terrorist nations vote against Sri lanka. Doesnt that bare proves their double acting? FBI reports say its one of the most dangerous terrorist groups founded ever! Who posses suiside bombers, heavy weaponary, navy power, and even an air force power!! can any of you people understand how critical the situation was? does alquida or hamas posses air crafts that bombs you people?? sri lankan conflict was and internal problem which was supported by millions of dollars from these so called anti terrorist nations.. how could we compare it with the israel-hamas confilict?f theres a cancer in your body what would you have to do? you will have to kill it off! but when you treat the cancer some of your own uninfected cells may also be killed. but if you didnt kill the cancer it will kill your whole body! what would be your solution? LTTE was a mortal cancer in the body of SL while israel and palastine conflict already are two bodies.. sri lankan government had to wipe off this ruthless terrorist group. And they did achieve it for the first time in world history. military measures were taken at a minimum harm for the civilians who were forced to become the human shields by the devil terrorists. it was a rescue operation which rescued 300000 civilians from the ruling of terrorists! in the mean time i hats off to israel for supporting the SL government with military aid since 1980s. when USA refused israel helped us with equipments.. its not fair to compare these 2 conflicts brothers..

Here you go, info direct from Sri Lanka, from an avowedly anti-govt, but pro unitary SL blogger.

Please understand why neither The Times’s posturing nor histrionics at the UNHCR from Eelamtard-vote dependant Western bloc politicans & INGOs will change SL govt’s position.

http://indi.ca/2009/05/the-times-have-changed-london/

SACKCLOTH – Rockall was in the war zone of Sri Lanka some years ago, close enough to hear but not see an ambush.

The reference to wog on wog crime was ironic. Geddit?

MANGO!
When the appointed or unappointed spokespersons of bloodstained regimes start yelling that foreign-funded NGOs are ill-intentioned and hostile to the nation in which they operate, distrust those spokespersons immediately.

We’ve now heard this stuff about Central America, Egypt, Kashmir, Gaza, Sarawak and Bosnia.

Sapheaded though the the NGOcrats might sometimes or often be, they are enemies of cruelty and oppression. That is all that need be said.

Questions: What exactly has the UN done to promote human progress in the world? What exact good has the Human Rights Commission done in its existence? What real effect does the HRC have on world affairs that violate human rights? What exactly are the consequences of the HRC’s conclusions? Seems there is no evidence that the UN has ever done anything constructive. Seems it is merely a forum for people of the various member countries to voice various rants and complaints. Hasn’t it been ineffective in preventing wars and HR violations? Can’t see that anything effective has been accomplished by the UN or by its HRC.

Thank you, Mango for linking to indi’s honest, straight forward and eloquent assessment of what the brutal victory of the democratically elected Sri Lankan govt. over the ruthless terrorists of the LTTE has cost and why this victory, however destructive of civilian life, was necessary for Sri Lanka to have any hope of a decent future.

Rockall, “…foreign-funded NGOs are ill-intentioned and hostile to the nation in which they operate.” is exactly correctly.

We’re beginning to see the LTTE-supporting NGOs’ secrets gradually spill out. They helped the LTTE with transport, money, heavy lift equipment, propaganda etc. Use Google, have you heard of it?

Here you go:
The Norwegian-funded NPA’s assistance to the LTTE.

..”When the Norwegian People’s Aid, a Norwegian Government funded NGO says its heavy earth moving vehicles, trucks & tractors have been “stolen” by the LTTE – those who know of NPA track record will immediately recall how NPA was party to the secret smuggling of arms to an insurgent group (Sudan’s People’s Liberation Army) in Sudan.

Viewing the massive bunkers that the army have taken over, the trenches that delay army advances it is very easy to assume that these trenches, bunkers etc could not have been built overnight – which immediately necessitates that if these vehicles etc were “stolen” it should not have taken till the army’s advancement to actually inform the Government. The soldiers who overran the Stanley Base and other camps found electricity generators, water pumps, tents, water dowsers belonging to INGOs (Media Centre for National Security).”
http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/13504

As for your pathetic 6th Form sub-Grauniad crack about bloodstained regimes, I refer you the recent UK/US disasters in Iraq & Afghanistan and before that, Madeline Albright’s famous remark about 50,000 dead Iraqi kids (or was it 500,000 ?) being a ‘price worth paying’ for sanctions against Iraq.

Sri Lanka has a long way to go before it gets anywhere near the Premiere League Western bloodstained regimes. Your NGO-tards are not “enemies of cruelty and oppression”. They aid and abet instigators “cruelty and oppression”. We now have documented proof that the many INGOs assisted the LTTE, who wrote the book on “cruelty and oppression” to maintain their ethnically pure statelet in Northern Sri Lanka.

If you support the LTTE, just come out and say it. This is after all an internet forum. The Western bloc can no longer use the human rights shtick (pun intended) to beat Sri Lanka’s admittedly very, very imperfect government.