Harry's Place

compared to an arguably comparable situation in the US in 2004

Yes, we all remember the American death squads murdering scores of demonstrators, dragging them out of hospitals and so on.

I am surprised he didn’t manage to slip in a reference to Israel.

Pure PR on their part. They have carried water for the Islamic state of Iran for years and now they are trying to cover their ass.

Pathetic.

The banner was created by the owner of the stopwar.org.uk domain in response to the StWC loss of direction and hypocritical response to the Iranian election compared to an arguably comparable situation in the US in 2004.

Well yes but ‘arguable’ in the way that it’s ‘arguable’ that Anne Widdecombe is a front runner for the new face of Revlon 2010.

“Hanging Chads” has a different meaning in Iran.

The StWC’s feeble statement on the Iranian elections shouldn’t surprise anyone. StWC prevented the affiliation of anti-war, anti-regime groups such as HOPOI. As such, StWC is engaged in a pro-regime propaganda battle and its officers are on the same side of the barricades as the Bassij, the Revolutionary Guards and the torturers at Evin Prison. It is not a principle peace organisation, it is simply taking whatever side it perceives as anti-Western, regardless of how violent their allies are and regardless of their human rights atrocities.

“Hossein Mousavi’s external spokesman Mohsen Makhmalbaf said:
“We [Iranians] are a bit unfortunate. When we had our Obama [meaning President Khatami], that was the time of President Bush in the United States. Now that [the United States] has Obama, we have our Bush here [in Iran].”

Pretty unpleasant moral equivalence going on here-Bush was still democratically elected (no religious council vetted the US candidates) and left after two terms. As far as I can remember Bush is not a holocaust denier and does not call for gay people or adulterers to be stoned to death or hung or for women to cover their heads by law. Khatami is part of the clerical dictatorship and establishment and is not a liberal in any sense that might be recognised in the West. He was just a little less manic and a little more pragmatic in his outbursts about Israel and the West than Ahmanidejad.

But then Mousavi, historically a regime insider to the core, is no saviour either.

maybe, just maybe, and I am being a bit optimistic, those people will eventually see thru that fake “anti-imperialism” which they have espoused for years ?

This is not the first (or last) example of the brutality of the theocratic regime in Iran, from attacking trade unions, hanging gays or oppressing women’s these have all happen previously.

That is not forgetting the long and dodgy defences which have been advanced concerning Ahmadinejad’s racist speeches.

So these events happened on their watch, but whatever their past errors, I hope now that the mist is clearing from people’s eyes on this reactionary regime and they see it for what it is.

The domain registrant is a guy called Justin Maxwell who lives in a flat in Rotherhithe. There’s not much more information on him. He just seems to be an ordinary guy who probably registered the domain before the StWC really got going rather than a member of a far-left sect trying to dish dirt on some people he fell out with. Good on him.

Below the banner, it seems StWC still have their priorities in order -

Stop the War Coalition Statement: The crisis in Iran

The responsibility of the anti-war movement is first of all to oppose the role of the British government in the region

Dan,

There is a lot of information on the WHOIS, I don’t think it is right to speculate, that might not be the correct individual. If you deepen your search you will see why, nuff said.

[From the source code I can see it was created a day ago, 22/06/2009 2:01:01, I doubt that the Luddites in the StWC will notice it for weeks]

This must be a hacker doing a windup…right…it’s a good one if it is.

Is it possible that at least some of the far left are beginning to realise that growing numbers of people, including Muslims, despise them and equate them with fascists?

If you is a real Suffolk Booy (correct spelling, Bor), and not a Boor, who trolls around the Net, then you would have realised that the Suffolk far left has consistently backed the Iranian democrats. One of the first trade union afiliations to the HOPI (which has been refused affiliation to the StWC) was an Ipswich branch of UNITE/T&G.

Would that be Justin Maxwell the famous baseball player, or Justin Maxwell the techno-music player?

Obama, Obama, Obama….wasn’t it Bush that started the ‘domino effect’ on bringing democracy to Iraq…wasn’t that the real reason for the votes in Lebanon and the surge of ‘hope’ in Iran.
Wasn’t it the Iraq invasion that scared the Iranians into admitting the extent of their nuclear advances, previously denied by the IAEA, and the North Koreans into negotiating and the Libyans to giving up their nuclear technology?

Can it be any wonder that people are beginning to equate the extreme left with fascists? In the union my partner is in (UNISON) the extremists just argued against and voted down a rule change which would have allowed the union to expel BNP members (of which they apparently have more than 250 who are on the membership list that got published)! Then they managed to disrupt the meeting of the union’s NEC and stopped the union electing its first ever black vice-President! When you’ve got them in bed with the BNP backing wildcat strikes, no wonder they are viewed with great suspicion.

Yes, we all remember the American death squads murdering scores of demonstrators, dragging them out of hospitals and so on.

Are you sure you don’t mean 2005 when 5,000 prisoners received single gun-shots to the head?

STWC says its website has been “hacked”: http://www.unobserver.com/layout5.php?id=6122&blz=1

I’m no expert but doesn’t look like a hack. Normally a site is defaced. The message doesn’t look like the work of a vandal but someone trying to make a good point.

Just to make it clear, Alec: are you saying that the USA is the exact counterpart of Iran, nothing at all to distinguish between them, not even 0.001 micron of clear blue water?

What are you on about, Pat? Are you saying that members of a lawful British party should not be permitted to belong to a trade union?

I doubt the StWC would know a “hacker” from the backside of a bus.

It seems more likely that it is the domain owner (as he would have access to the site) and that he’s annoyed at the StWC’s weak position on Iran.

StWC is truly more anti-regime change than universally opposed to the use of arms to attain political ends. Hence the Stoppers’ sympathies with “movements” like Hezbollah and Hamas.

The domain owner is naive at the least and hypocritical at worst.

Stop the War? which one?

Stop the War? which one?

The war against tyrants. WHEN WILL IT END? WHEN WILL A DESPOTIC LEADER BE ABLE TO RELAX? YOU’RE ALL SO CRUEL!

I’m sure Hizbollah has a pretty good website. StWC should contact their old chum Moussawi for some payback. Failing that, do they know anybody gorgeous at PressTV.com?

wasn’t it Bush that started the ‘domino effect’ on bringing democracy to Iraq…wasn’t that the real reason for the votes in Lebanon and the surge of ‘hope’ in Iran.

A-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Stop the what-now?

I hear they are going to rename themselves ‘Stop various wars that we don’t approve of but continue all the rest’.

Not quite so snappy but much more accurate.

Stop the war that kills millions of people is probably a better moniker indeed. Despicable.

Oh, it’s that ex-Fallujahn! Who d’you think you’re kidding?

Stop the War? which one?

Which one isn’t important. All you need to know is that war is, like, totally bad and stuff, mkay?

I’m just kidding of course. It’s the Iraq war. A war in which trillions of innocent people – all of them women, children and kittens – have been bayonetted to death by Coalition troops for fun. No wonder StWC are acting so insane.

Thier logo has got me thinking. What do they have against ties? Is this why Galloway never wears a tie? And there was me thinking it was because he has a really fat neck.

Keeping score, so far Ex-Fallujahn believes that Iran has had an exemplary regime except for some little matter of having a death penalty and that the Iraq war killed millions.

I think I’ve forgotten some howlers here, but please enlighten us with more of your view of recent history, I’m amused.

What do you think of Syria? Hezbollah? I’d probably be banned for asking for a flood on nonsense if I told you to give your sage opinion on I/P.

The author of the StWC site hijack statement should be congratulated for observing the apt but hitherto absent juxtaposition between Iran 2009 and USA presidential election 2004. The latter being settled not by the electorate but by Supreme Court judges.
As to Stop which war? The answer is in the inflection as fans of camp performer extraordinaire the late Frankie Howard know well. The answer is Stop That War!

“Keeping score, so far Ex-Fallujahn believes that Iran has had an exemplary regime except for some little matter of having a death penalty and that the Iraq war killed millions.”

On the contrary, the regime’s irregular balloting, and having unelected judges decide an election is anti-democratic.

“What do you think of Syria? Hezbollah? I’d probably be banned for asking for a flood on nonsense if I told you to give your sage opinion on I/P.”

I do not want to derail the topic, but I must still point out that I am in solidarity with the poor Palestinians. It has nothing to do with religion or arab ethnicity shared, but with basic human rights.

I do not want to derail the topic, but I must still point out that I am in solidarity with the poor Palestinians

Well, at least your ignorance and stupidity are consistent.

Exie, if you believe that you share religion or ethnicity with Palestinians, the following conclusions can be drawn: a) you this label is synomous with Muslim; b) you believe a great part of what are now termed Palestinians hailed, within living memory, from zones close to your gaff… that is, from far outwith areas covered by Israel or the ATs. In the case of b), in particular, it raises the question of whether you believe Israeli Jews whose recent ancestors hail from adjacent areas are legimate refugees, or imposters wherever they go.

I do not want to derail the topic

You did that when you turned a discussion about Iran into one about a war in which millions had apparently died.

Now, game’s up. Who are you? No, don’t say you’re from Fallujah.

Now I know ex-Fallujahn is no Iraqi – Iraqi (along with nearly every other sort of Arab) absolutely loathe Palestinians.

ex-fallujahn why do you keep running away when asked questions about Fallujah? What part were you from, what street? Name a couple of landmarks on it.

Or are you just a sad, lying bastard?

Aguirre, he would like to tell us, but being in Arabic, it cannot be translated accurately into English.

On the contrary, the regime’s irregular balloting, and having unelected judges decide an election is anti-democratic.

As in every other occasion, he

His English seems good enough to me, Alec. Of course, since he hails from Chester it would be.

“ex-fallujahn why do you keep running away when asked questions about Fallujah? What part were you from, what street? Name a couple of landmarks on it.”

It’s been a few long years but.

The main railroad depot is to the north, a college to the northwest, teacher’s district to the east, and the cementary to the south.

I presume you have never been to my native land, but I have described the place where I grew up in the neighborhood of Jolan before moving to the US. This is the last I speak of this trivial nonsense.

“Now I know ex-Fallujahn is no Iraqi – Iraqi (along with nearly every other sort of Arab) absolutely loathe Palestinians.”

What an incredibly racist thing to say.

Damn it, there was a browser glitch

On the contrary, the regime’s irregular balloting, and having unelected judges decide an election is anti-democratic.

As on every other occasion, he pretends that the regimes long history of extreme human rights abuses does not exist and this final, tiny last straw, the rescinded vote between members of a theocratic oligarchy, even compares to this totalitarian regime’s total dysfunction.

EF is a sad sad joke.

“Now I know ex-Fallujahn is no Iraqi – Iraqi (along with nearly every other sort of Arab) absolutely loathe Palestinians.”

What an incredibly racist thing to say.

It’s racist to say that society is racist? Who knew?

ex-fallujahn is actually a student from John Moores University who used to go to dad’s Stop the War group in Huyton. His real name is Russell. He wears one of those checked scarves and has a red face and protruding eyes that repelled me.

He used to call himself “The Fallujahn” but dad made him change it because he said the Jews destroyed that city and it was a wasteland. Dad once beat Russell with a belt because Russell was ill after dad showed him a DVD of a wedding in Jordan being bombed.

Gert’s daughter, I thought Mr Andre had disputed those allegations.

ex-fallujahn. Put a bit of effort in for fuck’s sake. That was from Google maps!!!

“It’s racist to say that society is racist? Who knew?”

Painting an entire people as racist is beyond the pale, I am almost unwilling to dignify this with a response.

Good thing you didn’t.

All your racists are belong to us!!!!!

anyone?

I’ll get me coat.

Can anyone (seriously) thing of a more extraordinary arsehole than ‘ez-Fallujahn’ who has posted here recently. It surely has to be a wind up.

That attempt to describe and personalise his ‘home’ city was the funniest thing I’ve seen her in months.

Give him a guest post!

Alec, I think you are referring to that funny programme Fawlty Towers. I saw it at a friend’s house, as dad had banned it at home. He said ‘that little Spaniard is a Jew’.

Painting an entire people as racist is beyond the pale, I am almost unwilling to dignify this with a response.

Apart from those nasty Israelis of course

Bush was still democratically elected (no religious council vetted the US candidates) and left after two terms

It must have come as a disappointment to the StWC that Bush didn’t, in fact, stage a coup in January 2009, ship Obama to Gitmo and impose martial law. It’s hard to work up a real rage against a savage despot who, er, loses an election, invites his opponent to dinner, wishes him well and moves out to quiet retirement.

[[ Of course, Bush's folksy down-home man-of-the-people shtick was just an act, designed to pander to the anti-intellectualism of the parts of the USA more than a hundred miles from water. He wasn't a prospective Nobel Prize winner, but he certainly wasn't a fool. My private suspicion was that he was glad to see Obama win, because even a tribal Republican could see that a prospective Sarah Palin presidency would be an utter disaster. Bush, like almost all US presidents, was loyal to his country and the office before his party. Would we could say the same of Labour Prime Ministers. ]]

Was a post pruned???

What are you doing moving to the US ‘ex-Fallujahn’. You imperialist swine!

I can’t bear to explain my last comment (to her) to Gert’s daughter. She’s only 17.

Sorry for being so silly Alec. Dad kept me locked in my room for nearly four years, but I have done as much catching up with life as I can!

It’s alright, Gert’s daughter. Have you tried any fruit other than oranges?

It looks to me like StWC has become nothing short of a pure and simple front for political Islam.

Alec, I’m a darn sight older than 17, could you explain your comment to me?

Sue, Jordan = Katie Price = Mrs Peter Andre.

I didn’t get it either. I’m sure your mind went through the same odd gyrations mine did trying to imagine what she was supposed to have done with oranges.

Well, if it were that comment, Josh… Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit by Jeanette Winterson was about an adopted girl who was kept secluded from her real emotions for years by religious nut-cases.

ex-Fallujahan – “The main railroad depot is to the north, a college to the northwest, teacher’s district to the east, and the cementary to the south.

I presume you have never been to my native land, but I have described the place where I grew up in the neighborhood of Jolan before moving to the US. This is the last I speak of this trivial nonsense.”

Aguirre “ex-fallujahn. Put a bit of effort in for fuck’s sake. That was from Google maps!!!”

The description sounds like it was lifted from here – http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/fallujah-imagery-mapped.htm

I can’t see the banner on the Start the War Coalition website – maybe it’s been taken down.

I can read, however, their truly sickening statement on Iran.

I went back and forth on this thread, but I’ve only now seen Exie’s description of his beloved homeland. For fuck’s sake.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/fallujah-imagery-mapped.htm

The Hospital is Fallujah General Hospital

The top bridge is the old bridge (where the contractors were hanged and the excuse for the bloody siege)

The lower bridge is the modern one.

“but I’ve only now seen Exie’s description of his beloved homeland. For fuck’s sake.”

Does putting a face on the victims of your war disturb you? Don’t feel that bad, for I was not there during the war.

I on the other hand know firsthand of the victims so it is not so easy for me.

Go away you sad, sad bastard.

I know! DaveM, strike up a conversation in Arabic with Exie.

“Go away you sad, sad bastard.”

You cannot just wish for war victims to disappear. Even indirect war victims like me.

DaveM, strike up a conversation in Arabic with Exie. Alec, Exie would just go to Google translation if DaveM did so. It would show if he did.

It’ll be fun, though, Amie.

Exie, say that in your beloved mother tongue!

Exie you would be a sad sad bastard even you were born in Fallujah.

الذهاب الى جبل من الأكاذيب سلة معلقة من شجرة الخراء في اتخاذ سلة سلة البيت يأكل والتمتع

A Targum please metta.

ex-Fallujan, were you a terp?

I’ve just visited the STWC website, and can only conclude that the web contents (apart from the banner mentioned above) are put together by people who are sick in the head. These people are deranged.

With regard to the crisis in Iran, apparently the “first duty must be to oppose the role of the British government”. For crying out loud!

OK, I’ll bite.

Any person even remotely au fait with the various prejudices that construct the unhealthy and rather well-known edifice of Arab xenophobia will account a chief one of them the general antipathy that Arabs of one region have for Arabs from regions other than their own. Arabs even have proverbial expressions for this general in-fighting, internecine loathing and tribal conflict.

Whilst everyone hates everyone else, there are some regularities. Maghrebi are considered but partially Arab (chiefly because their dialects are near incomprehensible to other Arab speakers), the Sudanese are sneered at because they are chiefly Black Africans, everyone loathes the oil-rich Gulf Arabs, Bedouin are considered with the same sort of contempt and fear as Gypsies in Europe. Lebanese are regarded as a nest of heretics (by the religiously inclined), or as simply no better than they should be. Syrians are sneered at because they talk funny. Iraqi are considered to be either damned by God, or a pack of lunatics hell-bent on killing each other if not dominated by some sort of blood-thirsty dictator.

Another regularity of inter-Arab hate and prejudice is the exceptionally low opinion shared by most Arabs of the Palestinians. They are considered aggressive, unreasonable, ungrateful, untrustworthy and a universal pain-in-the-arse that the Arab world could do well without.

Any true Arab would freely admit that this was so – indeed they do.

So fuck off back to Ipswich or where ever you come from, ex-Fallujahan.

Oh – on a final point, no Arab would ever, ever say that they were “ex” of somewhere. This is where you come from (allegedly) – and that is more important than country, people, indeed the entire Arab world.

Yellah!

ex-fallujahn has left. He will be appearing shortly on a newer HP thread though. I suggest when he does we resume our quiz.

ex-fallujahn could of course be one of those British jihadi’s who thought it was a computer game, went, shit his trousers and was back in West Bromwich before breakfast. Or he could just be a less travelled asshole I suppose.

Aguirre, I think I will simply cut ‘n paste Ermintrude’s comment.

ermintrude: Not to mention the racism against other non Arab Muslims. In Cairo I was in the company of a woman Cairean lawyer of Yemeni origin, married to a Cairo Egyptian. The butt of their jokes, taking the role of dumb Irishmen or whatever, were dumb Pakistanis.

Just to note it looks like StWC got the domain back; the banner is gone and the registrant details have been changed:

Domain name:
stopwar.org.uk

Registrant:
Stop the War Coalition

Registrant type:
Other UK Entity (e.g. clubs, associations, many universities)

Registrant’s address:
27 Britannia Street
London
WC1X 9JP
United Kingdom

Registrar:
GX Networks Ltd t/a 123-Reg.co.uk [Tag = 123-REG]
URL: http://www.123-reg.co.uk

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 22-Sep-2001
Renewal date: 22-Sep-2009
Last updated: 23-Jun-2009

Registration status:
Registered until renewal date.

Name servers:
ns1.lunarpages.com
ns2.lunarpages.com

WHOIS lookup made at 13:57:24 26-Jun-2009