Harry's Place

That is brilliant work, Edmund.

My eyes aren’t so good – do any of the same individuals feature in both photos?

Superb sleuthing squire Standing!

Might be worth keeping an eye out for fights and disturbances originating from this pub – after all the police can ask that licenses be withdrawn.

Complaints to weights and measures and public health are always welcome.

Old Sailor

Nicely done Edmund.

“Might be worth keeping an eye out for fights and disturbances originating from this pub – after all the police can ask that licenses be withdrawn.

Complaints to weights and measures and public health are always welcome.”

So, you don’t care for their politics, so you decide that using the apparatus of the state to harass them and interfere with their legitimate business is a good idea.

Yes, that’ll stop the spread of the BNP and help to dispel the myth of them as some kind of ‘underdog’. Well done!

Coo

Nazis can’t use the apostrophe.

Nazis can’t use the apostrophe.

Good work, well done! Pity they’re not high res photos, there might be a bit of an overlap in membership.

Excellent bit of research.

Good work.

What a nasty bunch – and no doubt there is some crossover.

Blimey, good work. As a former connisseur of terrible, unpleasant, unwelcoming pubs in some of the roughest bits of the outer belt of London (some of which are almost certainly BNP hangouts, even if with a lesser degree of formality than this one), I’m almost tempted to pay it a visit.

At least (unlike in one of their other strongholds) they (presumably) haven’t implicitly hijacked an attractive medieval building to bring in their louts at the expense of everyone else

(Serious point: that thinking of GK Chesterton and his encounter with a nonconformist preacher somewhere in North London – I wager Arnos Grove – who offered him an Oswego biscuit to fortify him against the snowstorm outside – brought me to: It is a point of fact that the BNP’s most successful borough electorally is also that which has, by some way, the lowest density of pubs per head of population in England – as well as, according to a survey published by some think tank or other last week. having the lowest proportion of the resident population who were satisfied with living where they lived. Some of the neighbouring boroughs – Havering and Thurrock at least, were very close behind B&D in the “pubs per head of population” table, too. Which is odd, as one wouldn’t immediately have assocaited South-West Essex with puritanism or even, particularly, tee-total non-conformism – although specifcially in Dagenham the patronising moralization of the little man by the LCC in the 1920s has a lot to answer for, although even a lot of the pubs that were bulit then – ghastly massive soullness places that they were too – have now been demolished or otherwise closed)

So I do, in all seriousness, posit that opening up some decent pubs (not the sort that serve Wife-beater or those brightly coloured drinks they sell to bring about mass teenage pregnancies in St Paul’s Cray) in Dagenham and places like that will be of more use in ultimately reversing the recent upflow of support for the BNP than anything explicitly political or in-your-face “anti-fascist”

Still, that word “bistro” (originally “быстро” before it was adopted with a rather different meaning by the French – bit dangerously Slavic ubermensch, no?

“So, you don’t care for their politics, so you decide that using the apparatus of the state to harass them and interfere with their legitimate business is a good idea.”

Yes!

Bet youre really proud you found a pub used by two sets of people.Thing is the BNP are far left.I dont agree with you.No doubt some of your peace keeping readers will shoot me down for daring to say so.For me i am sick of sites like yours.brewing up hate.All your doing is turning people towards the BNP.The UAF and UKIP are as bad if not worse.So keep off them you say.Why should i ,dont i have a right to my opinion,maybe youre all hanging on every word theyre saying about the far right bombing our cities too.Why oh why cant people just get on with living and enjoying life.I am no racist and im no BNP member either,but i think they are taking all the flack for the government losing the seats they cant see its because of their own actions. All your comments are suppositions without true facts.Come up with something constructive Harry youve had enough time now.

“All your doing is turning people towards the BNP.”

Perhaps that’s the plan? Certainly, the BNP don’t need to spend money on recruitment and publicity. Not when their erstwhile opponents are doing such a bang-up job…

the relationship between the lack of good pubs and the amount of nazis might be more profound than you think. Lack of a decent community, people living private isolated lives and all that…

The photograph of neo-nazis giving Hitler salutes outside a BNP pub is obviously another example of “suppositions without true facts”.

A confusion of issues.
Of course, poor social conditons have an impact in the rise of neo-nazis and associated fascists. That does not mean that you don’t expose the BNP for being said neo-nazis and fascists. (Not to mention that not every person who finds themselves shafted by the present and past governments votes BNP)

Of course, some think that, like a two-year old, if you close your eyes, they simply are not there and that they will go aways. Ahhhh, bless.

Maybe Ah Bless or maybe Ah Bliss to you.I am no 2yr old and my eyes are wide open.Thing is are yours.maybe your one of the gullable ones that believe all the propaganda.After all we must believe the people who are in power,yeah right.Poor conditions etc have an impact,but they dont turn people into Nazi’s either.No i know they dont all vote BNP silly.Im not the one here closing my eyes,they are wide open.I only believe the proven facts,not suppositions.Or maybe liking what you read.How stupid your comments are,time i think for you to do the growing up.Dont believe all you read,lifes not fairy tales with a magic wand saying just what you want to hear.Youre right ignorance is bliss to you that is.

There ya go Harry i livened it up for you.See like i said the muppets believe everything they read

Just because it’s a thread about a pub doesn’t mean you have to write all comments whilst completely rat arsed

Actually Whacko Jako i dont drink.I dont swear either.

Jack R – I was being ABSOLUTELY serious

It is a shame that those best equipped to run the world are already employed as publicans!

“So, you don’t care for their politics, so you decide that using the apparatus of the state to harass them and interfere with their legitimate business is a good idea.”

Why are Tories always so fucking prissy? Don’t like the idea of legal infringements being pointed out to the requisite local authority bodies? If not, why not?

There’s a certain type of Tory that you come across on t’internet who seems very concerned to bend over backwards to “understand” – perhaps I should say “mbunderstand” – the BNP and its poor put-upon activists. I find it rather offensive myself. One wonders quite what it indicates about the seamy underbelly of that nice Mr Cameron’s party. It’s kind of like what happens in the Labour Party re attitudes to communists and trots, except rather worse.

Anyway, do carry on depositing little gobbets of your vapidity if you wish.

Sorry, where are my manners? You would think I was born in a cave.

This is very good detective work.

Wonderful work Edmund, well done.

Well now that you’ve outed him, perhaps the villagers can descend on this establishment with torches, smash the windows and drive the family out of town.

A kind of inverted “Crystal Night”.

Much as I despise the BNP, their members have the right to hold their viewpoints. And while there’s people who will kill them for their beliefs, they have a right to hold them with a degree of privacy.

This article is petty, nasty and as scary as anything the BNP have in their leaflets.

“Why are Tories always so fucking prissy?”

Why do you assume I’m a Tory?

“Don’t like the idea of legal infringements being pointed out to the requisite local authority bodies? If not, why not?”

I don’t like them being used as a partisan weapon because you are frustrated that a party you disagree with is gaining support, no.

Not just because it’s wrong, but because it will be counterproductive.

“There’s a certain type of Tory…”

Yes, you carry on arguing with the phantoms in your own head, there’s a good lad, while you unwittingly (or perhaps wittingly..?) help to make the BNP stronger.

And ‘nice Mr Cameron’..? You are having a laugh, I hope!

lol, you nobheads! I’ve got a picture of the Missus at the Brandenburg gate. Does this make her a Nazi in your eyes?

Shrewd armchair research.
There is also the English Defence League, they fit in somewhere.
What’s with all this cloning and splintering? BNP gone too soft for some? Failure of leadership?

BTW I like your articles very much and have quoted you on Hope not hate, Norfolk site as we approach the important Norwich North by-election: http://hnhnorfolk.blogspot.com

uppty:

Well now that you’ve outed him, perhaps the villagers can descend on this establishment with torches, smash the windows and drive the family out of town.

A kind of inverted “Crystal Night”.

Much as I despise the BNP, their members have the right to hold their viewpoints. And while there’s people who will kill them for their beliefs, they have a right to hold them with a degree of privacy.

This article is petty, nasty and as scary as anything the BNP have in their leaflets.

Ridiculous. Firstly, this isn’t an ‘outing’ in any real sense as Deacon is an activist and area organiser – he’s put himself in the public eye. There must be plenty of people around Nuneaton who have seen him leafleting and seen him at his pub. An ‘outing’ is when you take a private member and stick their picture and address all over the internet. His details weren’t exactly hard to find.

One of the main points of this piece is to note the fact that a pub run by a BNP activist just ‘happens’ to be a pub that a neo-Nazi skinhead group used for a meeting at which they were giving Hitler salutes. The BFF is a vicious group that regularly boasts of intimidating anti-fascists and which openly states its admiration for Hitler and Nazism.

Another point is that those opposed to the racist politics of the BNP have the right to choose not to take their business to a pub run by a BNP activist and which could potentially at any time be full of far-right activists.

To everyone else, thanks for the comments, appreciated.

Looks like skinheads are a bunch of short-arses, since none of their heads come past the bottom of the E sign, while a few of the BNP-ers heads do.

Giving a politically deliberate Nazi salute is punishable by law in Italy. One young man who did so in a football stadium has been prosecuted.

One young man who did so in a football stadium has been prosecuted.

Paulo di Canio?

Part of me has some residual sympathy with the JuliaM position (let’s call it the “they are a legal party” position), but the overwhelmingly rest of me goes “fuck it, couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people…not”. so bravo Edmund!

“Why do you assume I’m a Tory?”

The links on your blog. You could be one of those non-party “libertarians” I suppose. But they are essentially the most dreadful right wing Tories minus the party discipline, so it rather leads to the same place.

I presume you don’t like that Mr Cameron because he’s disgustingly left wing?

I think publicans should stick to the relevant laws and regulations and if they don’t then they’re fair game. Particularly fascist ones. No idea if he is doing anything wrong, anyway. I simply find your outraged response to the suggestion quite strange.

Old Sailor didn’t suggest we send in masked agents of the state to disappear this guy, you know. No doubt that would be more his bag when he’s in power. But, yeah, another example of the ZanuLab authoritarian mindset – come on, have a free gnashing episode.

Presumably your ‘left wing’ selves are quite comfortable that thugs from you’re ‘Hate not Hope’ persuasion turned up to another pub, hospitalised a BNP activist after hitting him over the head with a claw hammer, and smashing up various vehicles. A lady nearby who witnessed this said they behaved like animals. Of course they did, because that is what they are. The BNP are Socialists, you are not. If you want to no what a fascist looks like, then I suggest you look in the mirror. All your silly comments about planning this or that just makes you all seem rather pathetic. People have a right to vote whichever way they choose. It’s called democracy. Fascists want to stop debate, and force their views on others by intimidation and violence. And given the comments I have read on here and other similar sites such as UAF and Searchlight, I think your own self-destruction is very much on the cards.

If you want to no what a fascist looks like

If you want to ‘no’, scroll up and click on the BFF pictures.

People have a right to vote whichever way they choose. It’s called democracy.

My favourite thicko BNP argument of this year which I keep hearing everywhere. Yes, people have a right to vote for the BNP. We also have a right to oppose the BNP. That’s not undemocratic, that’s part of a democracy. I totally oppose any violence against BNP supporters incidentally, but the idea that opposing a political party is ‘undemocratic’ just shows how little the BNP and its supporters/defenders understand about democracy.

I’d be interested in seeing a table comparing physical attacks on opponents of the far-right by members of the far-right with physical attacks on the far-right by opponents of the far-right. I think I know how that table would look. Ever heard of Redwatch?

““Why do you assume I’m a Tory?”

The links on your blog. You could be one of those non-party “libertarians” I suppose.”

You saw that one was called ‘Letters from a Tory’ and that was the extent of your ‘research’, I suppose…

“I presume you don’t like that Mr Cameron because he’s disgustingly left wing?”

No, it’s because he’s Tony Blair in a blue rosette. And that’s nothing to do with his politics, it’s to do with the fact that he wants power simply for power’s sake. He has no principles he wouldn’t jettison in a nanosecond if a focus group told him he should.

He’s going to win, and he’s going to be as big a disaster…

“I simply find your outraged response to the suggestion quite strange. “

Oh, I get it. You are an ‘ends justify the means, but only in a cause I personally support’ kind of chap.

You’ll grow up and out of it. Nearly everyone does.

“My favourite thicko BNP argument of this year which I keep hearing everywhere. Yes, people have a right to vote for the BNP. We also have a right to oppose the BNP.”

Indeed. Hopefully, you mean by democratic means?

Or, like Old Sailor, do you favour suggesting they should be harassed while going about their lawful business by the state?

Oi JuliaM

If the arsehole who runs this pub and encourages Nutzies to frequent it breaks the law on Public Health matters and serves short measures then He is not going about a lawful business – Is he ??

If the Nutzie scumbags get tanked up and start breaching the peace and insulting any non white they encounter then the publican is in breach of his duty in law not to serve drunks ! B>He is not going about a lawful business – Is he ??

JuliaM, if some Nutcase wants to trail his coat then don’t complain if the law is used to make sure that coat is well trodden on !##

Old Sailor

“If the arsehole who runs this pub and encourages Nutzies to frequent it breaks the law on Public Health matters and serves short measures then He is not going about a lawful business – Is he ??”

The operative word there being ‘if’….

“JuliaM, if some Nutcase wants to trail his coat then don’t complain if the law is used to make sure that coat is well trodden on !”

Personally, I think the law should be neutral, and not used as a political weapon against one’s enemies. Don’t you? Or would you eagerly endorse people encouraging state scrutiny against any publican endorsing SWP meetings too?

GOD – you are tedious JuliaM.

Maybe, but she’s correct when she says the law should be neutral and not used a political weapon against one’s enemies. Although I disagree with “Not just because it’s wrong, but because it will be counterproductive.” It would be at least as wrong if wasn’t counterproductive. The law needs to be above petty blog-based bickering between the BNP and self-declared anti-fascists. It needs to be more dignified and grownup than that. It could hardly be less.

The law is not neutral unless it is enforced. Serving drunks intent on a breach of the peace is a breach of the law.

Time Plod enforced the law with regard to this or any other pub.

And judging by the whinges here it is obviously not counter productive.

Old Sailor

Of course the law needs to be applied equally and neutrally and not in a vendettaesque fashion intended unfairly to target specific groups of people who are behaving in identical ways as other groups not being targetted in a vendetta.

Go down that road we are implementing the type of rule of law that characterises Putin’s Russia. Fuck that.

This why I don’t as a rule trust self-styled “anti-racists”, who if anything by their policies facilitate the same ends of those they, ostensibly, seek to oppose.

For goodness sake, people.

Frankly I can hardly be bothered given that this is entirely hypothetical, but you’re saying that if it turned out that this guy was infringing legislation or Council-imposed regulations you wouldn’t a) welcome this pub being shut down? b) That you would actively decry it? Or c) that you would go so far as to “Defend the Bistro One”?

Just because you would be inclined to think that because the guy’s a fascist you would expect that the discovery of infringements would’ve been carried out at the request of nasty authoritarian progressive types? Or you would expect some evidence to that effect before decrying the pub’s closure? What would constitute this evidence? Would you want all the other pubs in the borough to have been checked on the same day? Week? Month?

Would you go so far as to suggest (as I recall some saying with respect to Saddam being reinstated after the liberation) that we should keep the pub open/re-open it despite it infringing laws because nasty busy-body do-gooders in the Council ordered a check-up? Only if you thought it had been closed after a politically motivated inspection? Or just because it would “play into the BNP’s hands” even if it was part of a rolling programme of checks?

I think it would be a damn good thing to legally, legitimately and constitutionally remove what is presumably a source of ongoing revenue for the BNP as well as a base for organising from their calculations. And I wouldn’t really mind if the Council’s snoopers hadn’t been to all of the other pubs in the same area to check things out in the same week. But, you know, that’s just my classic nasty new Labour ways which are the other side of the same coin to the BNP and essentially Stalinist to boot.

Frankly, I find it astonishing that I’m allowed to peddle my dangerous extremist nonsense around these parts. It’s just not cricket, you know.

Wardy, by the way, I would hesitate to describe this as blog-based bickering. Sounds rather flippant. That’s merely what’s going on here. In the real world, fascist thugs intimidate people and make their lives a misery. It’s a little more than some nice middle class people rabbitting on on some blogs.

The point is that fascists are not like other politicians, even when their parties are legal. Their ends are always unconstitutional, their effects in terms of a climate of fear and intimidation on the areas they are active in are opposed to everything we believe, and the general behaviour of their members often involves low (or not so low) level criminality.

It is not enough, or frankly acceptable, to sit down and say “well, they’re just the same as Labour or Tory, except that they have some unpleasant views I disagree with”. This just isn’t true.

So much for hardly being bothered…

Edmund Standing

“…the idea that opposing a political party is ‘undemocratic’ just shows how little the BNP and its supporters/defenders understand about democracy.”

To be fair, BNP supporters don’t mind at all us opposing political parties …

As long as we don’t oppose the BNP, that is ;-)

Unfortunatly i live in the lovely town pictured and would like to give a little back ground. The pub euphemistically called a bistro serves a huge belly buster fry up as its most popular dish which might explain alot about its apparant cliantel. It faces both a popular indian restaurant and ghurka restaurant,and closes for public drinking very early in the afternoon which seems to indicate the publican has a few concerns about who might want to come and soak up the ambiance later in the day.
Whatever else we can say posing for photos with people sieg heiling seems a particularly brainless thing to do as a public face of a party constantly denying any facist leanings.