Harry's Place

Naw, just do what Bush Sr. and Clinton did when boatloads of Haitians tried to get to Florida, i.e. find some place like Guantamo to intern them before sending them back home.

I’m fairly sure that one of Berlusconi’s more unsavoury friends, in government in Italy then, as now, most likely from Liga Nord, made an almost identical speech…maybe 4 or 5 years ago?

One would expect nothing less from the likes of Griffin, really.

He’s right. But then this already happens: they scuttle the boats and bring the migrants to harbour via relief boats.

The Conservative Party and UKIP must continue to do damndest to discourage Labour/Socialist voters from electing the BNP to positions of power.

The interviewer made a point about the EU murdering people at sea. Europe’s unwillingness to defend its border encourages human trafficking. Its not murder of course, but people die.

Thats something this interviewer will either never understand, or never admit.

So he is against the EU but wants the EU to wage war on the high seas against immigrants.

Well, fascist völkischness never made sense, so the logic of this escapes me.

Billy –

I think you’ll find that comments like that get you banned.

That’s a factual statement and not a request.

Since you ask, comments like that simply confirm me in my long held view that the BNP is a Nazi front organisation, and that they play a sort of triple game – trying at times to sound like a legitimate nationalist party, at other times like a populist racist party along the lines of Vienna’s Karl Luger…but behind the scenes, no doubt they are very much still the party of Tyndall and Hitler and thorough going racism which doesn’t really care about nation or history or culture.

So why you should think I would rise to the occasion of a bit of media whoring by Mr. Griffin I don’t know.

Personally I think the media have a responsibility here to ignore Griffin and his rabble of convicted and unconvicted racists, thugs and racist thugs. Why play their game? Journalists and democrats are on the same side here – along with Jews, gays, Hindus, people of African descent, Muslims, Asians, and all who value free expression.

So I say – Abba style – thank for your musings for giving them to me…but don’t bother again.

Sink them at sea – that’s what the (supposedly non-fascist) British and Soviets did to boatloads of Jewish refugees in WW2. In 1939, a personage no less than the monarch, King George VI, wrote to the Foreign Office of his anger at hearing how “illegal” Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler were making their way to Palestine. Needless to say, it didn’t occur to him to offer them sanctuary anywhere in his Empire, even though it was so large that the sun never set in it.

The British establishment is no better than Griffin – in fact they’re worse, because they actually committed these crimes.

Andrew, at least Tommy Sheridan vowed not to take his seat were he selected for the EU Parliament.

I assume Ven’s referring to Roberto Maroni. Sheesh, anyone would think Griffin associated Italian fascists.

Mildly off topic, now, but still on the subject of right-wing twattery, I see Bernie Ecclestone has outshone himself. After expressing admiration for a regieme which would have had his short-arse on the way to the sterilization chamber faster than Danica Patrick winning race, he is now suggested that all he meant was that it picked the German economy up and, yes, built the Autobahns.

Oh, and had he been there he’s either had conspired to revoke Leo Steinweg’s racing permit, or he’d have found Nazi placemen installed to run a parallel organization before evicting him.

Ben -

Not suggesting you’re not telling truth, but can you give a citation for the King George VI story.

So he is against the EU but wants the EU to wage war on the high seas against immigrants.

Objecting to the institutional structure of the EU and its policy of bureaucratisation does not preclude support for a European continental border control. I know this sort of ‘muddled’ thinking is difficult for No Borders fascist advocates like yourself, but still.

By the way, any news on the far left extremists and terrorists in Greece responsible for the murder of a policeman, mass rioting and a spate of recent bomb attacks?

And how charming to see the toilet-mouthed Ben, aka Innocence is Bliss, indulging his favoured pursuits of knocking the British and going off at a tangent.

According to Wiki, some 100,000 Jews were given refuge in the UK immediately preceding, during and after WW2.

field, I think that unlike you, the moderators might have a sense of humour.

Course the USA unencumbered by being at war with a more powerful neighbour, having ridiculous amounts of land and natural resources, not needing to keep the arabs on side for it’s oil supply and well known for it’s welcoming attitude to immigrants responded by… errm slapping on a tight quota.

The question remains–the “Camp of the Saints question, if you will–does a sovereign nation have a a right to control it’s own borders or no? And at what cost? And what DOES one do to stem the tide of illegal immigration? Are there any limits to the measures taken? And if there ARE, is that not an ipso facto recognition that if only masses of people push hard enough, they are free to overwhelm the native citizens and/or the legal residents of any nation to the point of virtual forced occupation and/or unlivalibility? Article 51 of the UN Charter states that ALL nations have the INHERENT right of self-defense. And from whence do these rights inhere? From God himself according to all historical antecedents of international law. And if this be so, are not ANY and ALL measures deemed necessary by each nation’s legitimate government–a legitimacy garnered by virtue of the vote of a free people–sanctioned by the UN via Article 51–itself a reflection of God’s will–and thus allowed in the exercise of that God-derived UN recognized inherent right?

Neither the UN, GOD nor any other official collective of mankind
is, as far as I know, on record as saying that nations must commit collective suicide in the name of other people’s lives who are trying to illegally breach it’s recognized borders.

In this thread, the desire of Western Left-Wingeys to get the advanced rich liberal Western democracies to execute darkie refugees on the high seas is palpable.

But, of course, the only people who desire such outcomes are White Western Nazis and White Western Marxists and Ideological Leftists.

The Wangler,

If he is oppossed to the EU as an institution, then why would he support INCREASING its power?

That is like Margret Thatcher saying in 1980s, no to the EU but a single currency would be just fine.

That is ‘muddle’ thinking.

If you don’t think Griffin or the BNP are not fascists, then you may need help.

I would expand my previous thoughts further and say that what one is looking at is “justifiable homicide” on a grand scale in defense of a mortal massed assault on the life of the nation on an equally grand scale. Nations, like individuals, have an inherent right to kill in order to defend themselves from mortal threats. Is the US, par example, no less in danger of being overwhelmed and the very nature of it’s civic culture involuntarily changed before it’s very eyes by illegal invasion of the feet people of South and Central America no less than if the Japanese had successfully invaded at the point of a gun and established the culture, Shinto religion and language of Tojo’s Japan as the operative fact of life for what was, until that point, formerly English-speaking Christian America? You people are whistling past the grave-yard and in the collective suicidally naive to boot.

Virgil,

In the EU, about 3.2% of the whole population are Muslims.

Also, the EU basically has a No Borders approach now, you can move from say, France to Germany with no border controls. Yet when the borders came down, the whole populations of Portgual, Greece and Southern Italy(the poorest parts of Europe) didn’t all pack their bags like Jed and Elly May Clampett and move to Sweden, Norway or Denmark.

Frankly, using the ‘Camp of the Saints’, Jean-Marie Le Pen self-admitted ‘favorite book’ doesn’t do your arguments any favors.

The way the original post has been followed up on these threads is a nice illustration of Nazi dog whistle politics.

Griffin insists that he is not actually advocating the MURDER of people at sea. But along come some of his supporters (and the post above seems to be from someone Griffin would describe as an “American Nationalist”) with a whole list of metaphysical justifications for a new Holocaust, some of which could have come straight out of Nazi racial jurisprudence.

Just as Le Pen signalled to hardcore Nazi thugs with his arguments about the Holocaust being a mere “detail of history” so here, Griffen is signalling “we’re back”. Behind the racist populism is an ontology of racial war which can justify any act of violence, on the basis of protecting the racial and cultural purity of the heimat.

About a decade ago he explained to the KKK how it ought to be done. Here he is addressing the Klan and explaining what he was going to do to his friends:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw

Now he is doing it. Note “instead of talking about racial purity you talk about “identity”. Today of course he can bang on about a “critique of multi-culturalism”. But occassionally the mask slips.

If he is oppossed to the EU as an institution, then why would he support INCREASING its power?

If you listen carefully, and I know this might be difficult for someone of your particular bent, you will hear no endorsement of an EU border control force per se. The EU, much to the chagrin of those who’ve driven the creation of a federal Europe, has no support for its anti-democratic agenda partly because those policy areas in which European soverign countries could benefit from cross-broder cooperation have been such an abysmal failure. Immigration control is one such area that the EU could manage effectively if its key institutions (and I’m not talking about the toothless Europarliament here) were directly elected and would likely receive a ringing endorsement from a hypothetical European demos. Alas, the Commission is in thrall to various big business lobbyists for whom the temptation of onshore offshoring and the consonant lower wages is just too much.

If you don’t think Griffin or the BNP are not fascists, then you may need help.

Oh do Keep the straw men coming, won’t you? Meanwhile, how about a bit of balance on Greek domestic politics with an article or two on why the real threat to Greek democracy comes from your far-left chums and not the the far-right as you claim, hmmmm?

Yet when the borders came down, the whole populations of Portgual, Greece and Southern Italy(the poorest parts of Europe)

The fact is that the poorest peoples of Europe did up sticks and travel to the UK. The countries of Eastern Europe aren’t Portugal, Spain or southern Italy though…

ontology of racial war

Just what does this mean, John G?

Griffin insists that he is not actually advocating the MURDER of people at sea.

No, it’s the arch EU fanatic, Benito Ferrero-Waldner chum and travesty of impartiality, Shirin Wheeler, who puts words in Griffin’s mouth.

field, I think that unlike you, the moderators might have a sense of humour.

Um, nah.

You have been warned.

Perhaps Griffin may like to ponder why people flee to Europe or anywhere else. It seems a natural process of migration. I am not sure his policies of nationalism, walls, fences and patrols are really a serious answer to a profound issue.

Johng is absolutely correct about the dog whistle nature of Nick Griffin’s politics and pronouncements.

And what DOES one do to stem the tide of illegal immigration? Are there any limits to the measures taken?

One would suggest that, no matter what you think of them, perhaps NOT murdering illegal immigrants would be a good start?

And what DOES one do to stem the tide of illegal immigration?

Make it legal, stops illegal immmigration dead, problem solved.

Make it legal, stops illegal immmigration dead, problem solved.

Yuck, yuck, yuck…and then it’s goodbye greenbelt, hello accommodation pod. Can’t we just send all the No Borders loons like you somewhere else? Say, Zimbabwe, perhaps?

what was John Howard of Austrailiers policy for boat loads of invaders?

Alec, no – I don’t have records to hand, but it certainly wasn’t that instance (as I said, it was a few years ago), and I’m not sure that it was the same man, either.

Although the assault on liberty by the Berlusconi regime is to my mind by far the most alarming political development of recent years (intensified in recent months) pretty much anywhere in Europe.

No doubt Griffin regards Berlusconi as a potential ally and good chap, like a lot of other bastards

He will keep making statements like this to make sure he gets a media coverage that is disproportionately higher to his real weight. It will work for some months, and after that it will become mere fait divers.

Wait I’m confused, sink the boats then throw them a life-raft or the other way round – too risky Nick, some of the darkies may survive, better nuke the Libyan coast-line from space, it’s the only way to be sure.

Just wondering that, given that the various antecedents and offshoots from pre-BNP parties (at least) have received funding and other support from Libya this statement represents some kind of “falling out” between England’s wanna be fuhrer and the “King of Kings of Africa” (who none the less famously abhors titles)

Sinjun,

plenty of green fields when I travel by train, and, speaking as an economic migrant myself, if there weren’t jobs here, I’d be back off home…sauce for the goose…

Plus, if conditions got that bad, we could, erm, move to where land was cheaper and there was more space…

Wangler,

The argument goes in UK that migrants come to because of the welfare state, if that were true, then Sweden, Norway and Denmark would have all the poor parts of Europe in their country right now because their welfare state is much more generous then the UK.

So, wrong again.

Want to try another leap of logic.

I do wonder if I should change my moniker occasionally. Because I don’t really want to be associated with the somewhat outlandish views of the other Ben further up. I do not think that the British government sank boat loads of Jewish refugees during the War, and they are not worse than Griffin. (Quite apart from the fact that the establishment of 60 years and more ago can hardly be connected with those who inhabit it today in any meaningful sense.)

Anyway, I was going to say that perhaps this sort of comment will give pause to those who tend to suggest that BNP is just like the mainstream parties but merely with some unpalatable views, and that the true horror is people/the state attempting to hinder their activities in a biased way.

Actually, maybe that’s the answer.

If the name is Ben and the post is a slightly wild-eyed one about Jewish victimhood, then it’s the other Ben. If it’s nasty nuLab stalino-authoritarianism, then it’s this Ben. Simples.

Are you a Benjamin or a Benedict? You could use the fuller version of your name if tis the latter. If the former…

Unfortunately, Ven, my full name is Benjamin. Aaarggghhh!

sorry “ontology of racial war”: for him racial war is the governing principle of human biological existence.

plenty of green fields when I travel by train

So let’s keep it that way. Otherwise, let me know where you live and I’ll send a few Arabs that I know round and you can put them up…

The argument goes in UK that migrants come to because of the welfare state, if that were true, then Sweden, Norway and Denmark would have all the poor parts of Europe in their country right now because their welfare state is much more generous then the UK.

Norway is not in the EU.

Denmark is restricting the employment of EU citizens from the countries granted accession in 2004, until 2011. It also has a much tougher residency scheme than the UK.

Sweden is the most open and workers from the 2004 acceding countries have the same or similar rights as per the UK.

I’m not sure whether you understand the concept, but coupled with those generous benefits, are higher personal tax regimes. More importantly, the labour markets and economies of the 3 countries you mentioned are much smaller.

Instead of trying to make a point about something you know nothing about, why not stick to what you’re good at: you wrote a good article on right wing extremism in Greece; how about a follow-up to give a balanced picture, citing the much more serious disturbances and terrorism committed by No Borders loonies and fellow anarchists?

Leaving aside Nick Griffin and the BNP a moment, there is a growing probleme with migrants and the mafiosos who traffic in people. More and more Thrrd Worlders are fleeing failed states and are attempting to make it to The West. They remind one of the desperate and the unemployed who rode that rails across Amercia during the 30s. Their numnbers a set to increase dramatically in a few short years and neither Europe nor Amercia have the means or the resources to accommodate them.

We talk about a boatload her and a boatload there, but we never examine the issue in any depth and we never do any overview or attempt to inventory the mobsters, the thugs or the organisations behind these economic migrants for fear of being portrayed as racist. France and Italy are beginning to feel overwhelmed, with the former now expecting to deport some 60,000 migrants this year alone. If present trends are any indication, that number will soon be up in the 100s of 1000s.

Europe hasn’t the resources to accept all of these migrants, and yet numerous counties just south of the old continent already contain 100s of millions of people who have very high birthrates, and yet have little food, little work and absolutely no future.

We’re facing a stituation of mass, uncontrolled migrations that aim to ‘bust’ into Europe and they are fuelled by a state of utter economic desperation, and yet from what I can tell, and apart from France’s recent policy of repatriation, no one knows what to do about this.

All we’ve seen are the erection of ad-hoc detention centres in places like Calais.

Qafraz Jinjani,

I’m in England, and I think we can stand to build some nice houses with gardens on those fields, there’s plenty fo room. The entire human race could fit into an area the size of Texas with no greater population density than the city of Huston, so over crowding won’t be a problem for a while yet.

Has Griffin /not broken the law in publicly calling for mass murder…

I’m in England, and I think we can stand to build some nice houses with gardens on those fields, there’s plenty fo room. The entire human race could fit into an area the size of Texas with no greater population density than the city of Huston, so over crowding won’t be a problem for a while yet.

The UK is already overpopulated now. But, if you don’t mind overpopulation, then there’s no rational reason why you should object to me sending a few of my colleagues over to live in your garden…and I’m willing to wager that you’ve never lived in a truly densely populated place like Cairo or Dhaka and wouldn’t like it. Cairenes, in particular, have to put up with some of the most noise and air polluted streets anywhere in the world. Unless you’ve lived in a place like Cairo and enjoyed living there for a long period, how can you advocate making the UK more crowded that it already is?

It’s a sensitive issue but one I think HP should discuss more: does the black gang culture that is warned about in today’s Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/08/shakilus-townsend-gang-police) contribute to the general atmosphere in which the BNP is back in favour?

The killing of Shakilus Townsend encapsulates all the problems that people know are going on among the black community: violence, gang culture, street names, sexual bullying, beating of young girls and a culture of violent retribution for the smallest of incursions.

The conviction of one boy from a £14,000 private school destroys the myth that this is just about economic hardship.

Surely Griffin’s comments have to be seen against this backdrop?

Another piece of whataboutery, RNR? You astonish me. Not.

I do wish HP would delink you, because you seem to me to spend most of your time pointing out various distasteful or unfortunate aspects of culture or behaviour which may or may not be suitable for generalisation about a whole community and then use this as a rationalisation for why the BNP is on the up.

Now, I wouldn’t suggest that this is racist in itself (as perhaps some more bone-headed right-on trendies than myself might), and of course I abhor any gang culture as much as you do, but it is not in any meaningful way “anti-racist” to blame entire ethnic minority communities for the growth in the BNP. Leaving the supposed rationale of your blog fucked up beyond all recognition, hmmm?

Just a little bit tawdry, really, given your professed aims. I’m sure you can do better.

So Ben are you saying that there are no broader conclusions that can be sought from the murder of Shakilus Townsend?

When a story like that hits all the major papers and the police are warning about a gang culture that is undeniably a mostly black problem, should we all just ignore the effect it has on society’s perceptions?

I’ll take that as a no.

FYI my intentions are simply to undermine the BNP. If in order to do that I have to point up issues that are the Emperor’s New Clothes of race politics, I will do so. If everyone can see the problem plain as day, but the entire left wing commentariat hasn’t got the courage to speak about it, then I’d say my blog and its editorial line are entirely necessary.

I passionately hate this gang culture that has taken hold in the black community, which prompts black youth to blight each other’s lives without white people or any other group having to lift a finger.

If you want to know how the BNP weaves its narrative of white superiority then you cannot overlook this problem. It won’t go away unless people have the courage to speak up about it, or link to those who will.

Qafraz Jinjani,

because we have plenty of room – London is at 8,000/Square Kilometre (compared with paris at 20,000), and there are lots of green fields. I don’t have a garden, cheers. Also, don’t forget, people leave Britain to where populations are less concentrated, and when teh concentration rises too high, with free movement, people would leave to seek elbow room.

Borders are bunkum.

BNP so-called ‘foreign policy’ includes a commitment to stop giving any foreign aid.

So the starving people of sub-Saharan Africa have even fewer options. No aid for sustainable development projects and livelihood projects means more migrants.

Does Griffin expect these people to simply stay at home until they die?

Well said Nick – about time someone pointed out the obvious. Almost all these people are not refugees but wastrils and scroungers who know that there are rich pickings to be had on EU welfare. They make their illegal journeys entirely at their own risk.
Letting them in penalises those migrants who do follow the law.

BNP so-called ‘foreign policy’ includes a commitment to stop giving any foreign aid

We already spend huge sums on international development through i) all our troops engaged in peacekeeping and nation-building work in places like Afghanistan and Sierra Leone, and
ii) the money we give to international development organisations like the UN.

Qafraz Jinjani,

Thanks for the noticing my article on Greece, I will be happy to write a follow up on that if you can bird dog me some information about No Borders types committing acts of violence.

As to my comments on this, I was refering to 1992 when the EU went offically into effect and immigration borders were laxed.

My over all point is that the argument from the Right on this issue is in a nutshell, you can’t have a welfare state and open immigration.

Yet when the the borders were laxed, you did not see a huge migration of people from poor Europe to wealthy Europe.

FYI my intentions are simply to undermine the BNP. If in order to do that I have to point up issues that are the Emperor’s New Clothes of race politics, I will do so. If everyone can see the problem plain as day, but the entire left wing commentariat hasn’t got the courage to speak about it, then I’d say my blog and its editorial line are entirely necessary.

I passionately hate this gang culture that has taken hold in the black community, which prompts black youth to blight each other’s lives without white people or any other group having to lift a finger.

If you want to know how the BNP weaves its narrative of white superiority then you cannot overlook this problem. It won’t go away unless people have the courage to speak up about it, or link to those who will.

Laban Tall, the Modern Tribalist and Majorityrights do a far better job of posting carefully-selected tales of minority crime. And their attempts at justification are better written and better reasoned.

Your analysis of white-supremacist reasoning is delightfully besides the point. Here’s a list of UK serial killers. All of them are white; of the 40, seven are women, the rest are white men. Here are some sex offender stats. Of the sex offenders convicted for offences against minors, something like 93% are white men. More broadly, when it comes to mass murder, political violence inside Europe is the reigning champion — nothing else like it in all of recorded human history.

These stats, or similar, are known to any white supremacist with an internet connection. Your view seems to be that the white supremacist carefully compares violence by race, before plumping for white superiority. If that were true, then, in the light of basic history, there would be no white supremacists (or at least, no rational ones with access to the evidence).

Successful minorities are drug dealers or thieving bankers, unsuccessful ones are violent scroungers: the BNPer has already made up his mind, and is looking for what looks like confirming evidence. Good on you for providing it but don’t then pretend to be serving the cause of anti-racism.

He’d be well at home among the leadership of Hamas – same lack of insight or awareness of how he comes across, same failure to engage what passes for his brain before he opens his mouth, same imperviousness to any sense of humanity, same inclination to objectify the “other” so as to make possible what he wants to happen to them.

I don’t see why we can’t liberalise our immigration policy by asking those who support more immigration to allow the immigrants to live with them. After all, why shouldn’t people be directly affected by the consequences of policies which they support? of course, there can’t be any vetting for disease and criminal records because that would be ‘racist’.

I wonder where the Stockwell gang members I just saw on BBC news repeatedly kicking their pitbulls in the head and body came to our shores from, enriching our hitherto featureless and unvibrant casualty wards with their refreshing and diverse acts of hideous violence. Not that this has any relevance at all to with the BNP or anything like that.

a better idea would be to house, clothe feed, build houses for these invaders? The British countryside is being raped at an incredible speed, 40% of all new housing is for non British.
You support this? You like to see a small country be flooded by invaders?
The word traitor springs to mind.

The fact is that the poorest peoples of Europe did up sticks and travel to the UK.

Romania? Bulgaria? Don’t think so. Meanwhile in Bulgaria, 66% of property deals involving foreigners in 2006 were with British nationals.

The UK is already overpopulated now. But, if you don’t mind overpopulation, then there’s no rational reason why you should object to me sending a few of my colleagues over to live in your garden…Unless you’ve lived in a place like Cairo and enjoyed living there for a long period, how can you advocate making the UK more crowded that it already is?

The UK is the world’s 52nd most densely populated territory. That’s out of 238, coming just ahead of Germany in Europe’s top ten. Monaco, Singapore and Hong Kong are also pretty crowded; they’re pretty comfortable places to live. Or are you suggesting that any increase in population would only drag Britain down to levels of extreme poverty? Nine of the ten most densely populated territories of the world are very rich; so what makes you think Britain’s so much worse?

PS:JP, have you read Micha Glenny’s ‘McMafia’? I think there is a fair bit in there that you might find interesting. Including a chapter on organized cross-border crime from Canada.

How much of their own food do Monaco, Singapore and Hong Kong produce?

hasan prishtina

so you wouldn’t mind millions of british flooding your home country, destroying your natural habitats, feeding, clothing and providing free health care to the British?

Nah, thought not.

bone-headed right-on trendies

Describes your tribe to a T, Ben…

Romania? Bulgaria? Don’t think so. Meanwhile in Bulgaria, 66% of property deals involving foreigners in 2006 were with British nationals.

You know full well that there are special restrictions on both Romanian and Bulgarian labour with every existing EU state.

I can’t see what well-off property investors buying villas in Bulgaria has got to do with overcrowding and downward pressure on wages in the UK…but I’m sure you’ll enlighten me.

The UK is the world’s 52nd most densely populated territory….

But it IS overcrowded, Hasan. It’s the subject of conversation just about everywhere you go. Perhaps not in fashionable Cockfosters, but still. You seem to be saying that the nations more densely populated than the UK are somehow still underpopulated and their sizeable populations are quite happy, which is nonsense.

If we can both concede that perception is everything and that most sane people prefer to live in less densely populated areas with plenty of greenery and clean air, why can’t those of you who advocate open borders go and live somewhere else? Try Bangladesh, Egypt or the Lebanon.

@Emmanuel & chums

Violent crime in London is mostly the preserve of Afrocaribbeans and West Africans; Sylhetis, Mirpuris, Somalis and Tamils are now getting in on the game but you can’t argue with those pictures of dead people in the capital who are overwhelmingly black and killed by other black people. I’m not sure what your argument is really, but you seem to be an advocate of colour-matching for the purposes of race-hustling, yet not so keen when figures demonstrate an unsavoury trend based on skin colour – you can’t have it both ways, though I’m sure you’d like to…

Now let’s be fair. Although he said sink the boats he also said he wasn’t advocating murdering the immigrants but throwing them life-belts/boats so they could go back to where they came from. I guess he’s not taking responsibility for the fact that its probably difficult to swim a few hundred miles.

This painting of Griffin as a heartless racist Nazi blinds us to his sensitive side.

About time too. Foreign aid is a waste of money which retards the development of african nations. Most of it goes into the hands of corrupt politicans and thugs and makes the situation worse.

To FreshThinking;

According to the BNP manifesto, it would cut ALL foreign aid, and would bring ALL troops home to UK.

Preumably the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force would be redeployed sinking asylum seekers’ ships, and the Army would be fully occupied quelling civil outrage.

To FreshThinking;

According to the BNP manifesto, it would cut ALL foreign aid, and would bring ALL troops home to UK.

Presumably the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force would be redeployed sinking asylum seekers’ ships, and the Army would be fully occupied quelling civil outrage.

i am a labour backbencher with an expense account living in primrose hill and i have never suffered overcrowding, my little dog trotsky, and i have all the room in the world in thw wilder parts of regents park so there!

Emmanuel Goldstein, you are missing the point here.

Here’s a list of UK serial killers. All of them are white; of the 40, seven are women, the rest are white men. Here are some sex offender stats. Of the sex offenders convicted for offences against minors, something like 93% are white men

It is not controversial to talk about the racial dimension to e.g. paedophilia, nor should it be. I don’t think anyone has a problem with discussing the fact that most paedophiles are white.

The question remains why is it so difficult to admit the racial dimension to gang crime in London? The pictures in the paper tell the story- everyone knows it. Why should it be more difficult to talk about black gang members than white paedophiles?

Why are none of the left wing anti-BNP blogs prepared to even MENTION a race-based news story which is in all the major newspapers and causes people genuine concern?

How much of their own food do Monaco, Singapore and Hong Kong produce?

Why should Monaco, Singapore and Hong Kong produce any of their own food? Perhaps your comment tells us all we need to know: we should all live in hermetic autarkic boxes of Blut und Boden.

Meanwhile, in the real world, people trade things that they want with each other. The Norwegians sell the Americans oil and then buy grain from the Americans. Incredible. Indeed, the Dutch haven’t been producing enough to feed themselves since the seventeenth century, yet somehow the Dutch have remained one of the richest and most densely-populated countries on earth.

I can’t see what well-off property investors buying villas in Bulgaria has got to do with overcrowding and downward pressure on wages in the UK…but I’m sure you’ll enlighten me.

Ask the BNP’s opposite number in Bulgaria, ATAKA. They’re not best pleased with the invasion of their country and the large-scale destruction of Bulgarian village culture by foreign invaders with no interest in learning the language, let alone assimilating. You might say they feel swamped.

Wage costs are still rising. The difference is at the moment they are no longer outstripping inflation, which they were, by a factor of two, last year. You might also have noticed that this phenomenon is not restricted to the UK; there is a global recession on, you know.

Perhaps you can also tell us why Polish and Lithuanian workers have been returning home for the last few year or so. And can you comment on the 300,000 mostly recently-immigranted French living in the UK?

It’s the subject of conversation just about everywhere you go. Perhaps not in fashionable Cockfosters, but still.

I’ve never been to Cockfosters so I don’t even know if it’s fashionable or not, but I don’t hear about overcrowding “just about everywhere I go.” I hear about the economy, about politicians, about immigration. But not overcrowding. It doesn’t seem to have been picked up that much by the polling organizations which is odd, if this is self-evidently true.

If we can both concede that perception is everything and that most sane people prefer to live in less densely populated areas with plenty of greenery and clean air, why can’t those of you who advocate open borders go and live somewhere else? Try Bangladesh, Egypt or the Lebanon.

None of the countries you mention all have the closed areas and the border controls about which you are so keen. Your repetition of poor countries as opposed to countries with higher-density, a higher proportion of immigrants, and greater wealth does lend one to think that with the presence of people who are not “pure” English, Scottish, Welsh or Nothern Irish, Britain has no future other than destitution. I think of the UK as a great, innovative and resourceful country; I cannot understand why you hold Britain in contempt.

If we can both concede that perception is everything and that most sane people prefer to live in less densely populated areas with plenty of greenery and clean air,

Which is why over 90% of Britain’s population lives in cities, and one in four Britons lives in a city of over one million people, leaving large parts of the country relatively sparsely populated. Perhaps you would prefer to live in a country where most people are “sane” and the great majority live in rural areas with low population density and clean air. Such as Afghanistan, Sri Lanka or Papua New Guinea.

People here claim Britian is a relatively undercrwowded country. Your population is twice that of Canada, and Britian’s surface area less that a 40tieth of Canada’s.

You are indeed a very crowded country.

Southern Ontario which is about the same size of the UK and which has “only” 12 million people already feels crowded to me.

Canada is the 227th out of 238 in the population density stakes. If the UK had the same density its population would be just under 730,000. Southern Ontario, which JP finds crowded, has a population density equivalent to that of Spain; this would leave the UK with a population of just over 21 million, around the number it had at the census in 1871. Not only would we have to export every “non-indigenous” Briton, but about half the number of English, Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish to reach this figure. And this, remember, is what JP says feels crowded.

I am sure those who want to seal Britain off from the outside world would be happy to live at 1871 levels of income, home conveniences and medical care.

Southern Ontario which is about the same size of the UK and which has “only” 12 million people already feels crowded to me.

I do actually want to kill people who can experience, say, the Victoria Line at 6pm and think “We need more people, we need more congestion, we need more ramping up of rents. They’re FLINGING people at the BNP. Some of us scurry back, saying “No, they’re the BNP”, but lots land there and stay where they are.

Come on Griffin, sink the immigrant boats? That’s cold. Why not just kill everyone belonging to any group that begins with the letter “I”?

That’ll take care of the Immigrants, the Islamists, the Indians, and all those pesky Infidels in one fell swipe. Maybe even all the Idealists too.